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[Mole5000]

Code: [Select]

Beggar, Herbalist, Shanty Town, Gardens, Plaza, Spice Merchant, Trader, Margrave, Possession, Bank
I was over whelmed by the choice on this board - espcially given that there were Colonies/Platinum.  I know I didn't play it well but I can't put the pieces together about how to play it better.  I kept thinking I should add a trader to get rid of the estates but never got round to it, I feel I should have got a possession earlier - I never did and I can't help but feel there should be some rush available to 3 pile this super quick and I know I got lucky and my opponent drew badly to allow me to win.

What I actually did is here: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150604/log.514708c4e4b0cf33e05114cd.1433451098290.txt

And I feel pretty dumb for not buying out the estates to win a turn earlier.

Can I get some pointers as to waht was actually available on this board?

[ehunt]

without colony and platinum, i would just ignore possession here, since you have two incredible gardens enablers (trader/beggar) which get even better if the opponent is playing margraves.

with colony/platinum, it still might be right to ignore possession. the only draw is margrave, and if a possession is coming, the opponent can self-sabotage versus a margrave (this leads to some somewhat annoying mind-games, though).

[JW]

I'd open Spice Merchant - Shanty town, build the Plaza / Margrave draw engine, and get at least one Possession unless my opponent is going for something like Beggar-Gardens (which is resistant to Possession but should lose to the engine simply adding money and buying Colonies). Trader doesn't seem necessary in the engine. It gives you two Silver in exchange for an Estate and by the middle of the game that's not useful.

Games where you can play discard attack + Possession in the same turn can be very tricky. You always want to play Possession at the end of your turn because your opponent may discard their good cards to prevent you gaining by Possessing them, in which case you may prefer not to play Possession to leave them with a bad hand (and you should generally keep Possession in your hand because your opponent doesn't gain from it when they possess you). Here's an example game played by some of the best players in the world: http://www.twitch.tv/stef_42/c/6346633

[pubby]

Trader doesn't seem necessary in the engine. It gives you two Silver in exchange for an Estate and by the middle of the game that's not useful.

Against another engine player I agree (not enough draw), but against Beggar-Gardens I think you want the trader. It increases your payload a ton when combined with banks. Example game.

[faust]

I think this might be one of those games where one of my most beloved combos might come into play: Spice Merchant - Beggar.

It has several things going for it:
- it's the only source of draw aside from Margrave.
- It works well with Plaza.
- minor point: Herbalist can ensure Spice Merchant always has a target.
- It doesn't work when possessed. That's probably the biggest thing. When you're possessed, the Coppers from Beggar never go into your hand, and the whole engine crumbles.

[Awaclus]

I think this might be one of those games where one of my most beloved combos might come into play: Spice Merchant - Beggar.

It has several things going for it:
- it's the only source of draw aside from Margrave.
- It works well with Plaza.
- minor point: Herbalist can ensure Spice Merchant always has a target.
- It doesn't work when possessed. That's probably the biggest thing. When you're possessed, the Coppers from Beggar never go into your hand, and the whole engine crumbles.

I love Spice Merchant+Beggar, but doesn't Margrave just do everything you'd want your Spice Merchant+Beggar to do for you?

[DG]

There are 3 broad strategies here:
- gardens deck
- buying colonies with treasures and margraves, probably in some sort of engine with plaza
- possession in a margrave/plaza engine

The way that you play these broad strategies will change depending upon your opponent's strategy too. A rough evaluation will tell you that gardens will beat possession, possession will beat treasure/colonies, but it's not easy to evaluate gardens vs treasure/colonies. It needs some maths. The best gardens deck is going to use beggars and it will collect a lot of copper, it may collect a lot of silver if the opponent uses margraves, so it can score 8x5 for gardens maybe, plus a lot of duchies, meaning that an opponent would have to buy most of the colonies to beat it. If beggar/gardens looks like it beats treasure/colonies by this match up then it's just the best strategy so use it.

Let's suppose however that treasure/colonies will be better than gardens. We then have a gardens > possession > treasure+colonies > gardens dilemma. The solution comes from the flexibility to switch from a possession plan to a colony+treasure plan if the opponent starts buying beggars for gardens. A gardens player cannot switch strategy once they have started, even if they get hopeful with beggars and banks.

[Seprix]

There are 3 broad strategies here:
- gardens deck
- buying colonies with treasures and margraves, probably in some sort of engine with plaza
- possession in a margrave/plaza engine

The way that you play these broad strategies will change depending upon your opponent's strategy too. A rough evaluation will tell you that gardens will beat possession, possession will beat treasure/colonies, but it's not easy to evaluate gardens vs treasure/colonies. It needs some maths. The best gardens deck is going to use beggars and it will collect a lot of copper, it may collect a lot of silver if the opponent uses margraves, so it can score 8x5 for gardens maybe, plus a lot of duchies, meaning that an opponent would have to buy most of the colonies to beat it. If beggar/gardens looks like it beats treasure/colonies by this match up then it's just the best strategy so use it.

Let's suppose however that treasure/colonies will be better than gardens. We then have a gardens > possession > treasure+colonies > gardens dilemma. The solution comes from the flexibility to switch from a possession plan to a colony+treasure plan if the opponent starts buying beggars for gardens. A gardens player cannot switch strategy once they have started, even if they get hopeful with beggars and banks.

For sure, it is a high skill board. Looks fun, I actually want to play this Kingdom.

[faust]

I think this might be one of those games where one of my most beloved combos might come into play: Spice Merchant - Beggar.

It has several things going for it:
- it's the only source of draw aside from Margrave.
- It works well with Plaza.
- minor point: Herbalist can ensure Spice Merchant always has a target.
- It doesn't work when possessed. That's probably the biggest thing. When you're possessed, the Coppers from Beggar never go into your hand, and the whole engine crumbles.

I love Spice Merchant+Beggar, but doesn't Margrave just do everything you'd want your Spice Merchant+Beggar to do for you?

Well, the fact that it counters Possession might make it worthwile in an engine mirror I think.