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Author Topic: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?  (Read 17465 times)

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ashersky

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Re: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?
« Reply #75 on: June 02, 2015, 05:46:57 pm »
+4

I actually mean, you all owe me like 500000 respect for all the easy respect I'm earning you folks in the majority by being your opponent in this argument where I'm outnumbered by numberish folk.

What I wouldn't give for another creative writing major to join this forum.
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pacovf

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Re: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?
« Reply #76 on: June 02, 2015, 05:51:19 pm »
0

What I wouldn't give for another creative writing major to join this forum.

The typesetter quote?
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liopoil

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Re: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?
« Reply #77 on: June 02, 2015, 06:10:05 pm »
0

What I wouldn't give for another creative writing major to join this forum.
Robz? At least, he writes for a living.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?
« Reply #78 on: June 02, 2015, 06:16:22 pm »
+2

I actually mean, you all owe me like 500000 respect for all the easy respect I'm earning you folks in the majority by being your opponent in this argument where I'm outnumbered by numberish folk.

What I wouldn't give for another creative writing major to join this forum.

Just because people are numberish doesn't mean they aren't creative writers too.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?
« Reply #79 on: June 02, 2015, 06:46:20 pm »
+5

I also write, just about math.
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Dsell

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Re: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?
« Reply #80 on: June 02, 2015, 07:24:05 pm »
0

I actually mean, you all owe me like 500000 respect for all the easy respect I'm earning you folks in the majority by being your opponent in this argument where I'm outnumbered by numberish folk.

What I wouldn't give for another creative writing major to join this forum.

I did more creative writing than math in college. However, I use more math than creative writing in my job now (hoping to reverse that soon).
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ashersky

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Re: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?
« Reply #81 on: June 02, 2015, 08:33:13 pm »
0

Glad to see some writers coming out of the woodwork.

I use very little math in my life, nor am I very good at it.  My uni had a class call "Essentials of Algebra" for folks like me to get my required math/science credit.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?
« Reply #82 on: June 02, 2015, 08:46:08 pm »
+1

Glad to see some writers coming out of the woodwork.

I use very little math in my life, nor am I very good at it.  My uni had a class call "Essentials of Algebra" for folks like me to get my required math/science credit.

Logic isn't just for mathematicians.  It's also important in philosophy and rhetoric, which are probably more on the arts side of things.
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SwitchedFromStarcraft

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Re: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?
« Reply #83 on: June 02, 2015, 09:35:54 pm »
0

It's wrong because it's an incorrect application of what quotations are being used for.

I would use this statement of yours against your own position.  The purpose of quotation marks is to delimit what is being quoted.  If punctuation is included in the material being quoted, put it inside the quotation marks.  If not, leave it outside the quote marks.  Any other course of action is not only illogical, but inaccurate, as regards the quote itself.
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GeoLib

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Re: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?
« Reply #84 on: June 02, 2015, 09:59:10 pm »
+1

It's wrong because it's an incorrect application of what quotations are being used for.

I would use this statement of yours against your own position.  The purpose of quotation marks is to delimit what is being quoted.  If punctuation is included in the material being quoted, put it inside the quotation marks.  If not, leave it outside the quote marks.  Any other course of action is not only illogical, but inaccurate, as regards the quote itself.

I believe this is exactly Witherweaver's stance. Just popping in to lend support to the logical style. I've been bucking the American standard convention I was taught in my writing recently. I do think I was only ever taught to put "small" dangling punctuation such as periods and commas inside the quotation marks, but to only include question marks, exclamation points, colons, etc. inside the quotation marks if they're part of the quote.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?
« Reply #85 on: June 02, 2015, 10:24:51 pm »
0

It's wrong because it's an incorrect application of what quotations are being used for.

I would use this statement of yours against your own position.  The purpose of quotation marks is to delimit what is being quoted.  If punctuation is included in the material being quoted, put it inside the quotation marks.  If not, leave it outside the quote marks.  Any other course of action is not only illogical, but inaccurate, as regards the quote itself.

This is precisely my position.
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enfynet

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Re: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?
« Reply #86 on: June 03, 2015, 01:02:44 pm »
0

""It's wrong because it's an incorrect application of what quotations are being used for." "I would use this statement of yours against your own position.  The purpose of quotation marks is to delimit what is being quoted.  If punctuation is included in the material being quoted, put it inside the quotation marks.  If not, leave it outside the quote marks.  Any other course of action is not only illogical, but inaccurate, as regards the quote itself."

So, this is accurate?
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SwitchedFromStarcraft

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Re: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?
« Reply #87 on: June 03, 2015, 02:16:39 pm »
0

Except for the extra (unpaired) quotation marks, I have no issue with the way it is presented.

My point was about examples like this one from post 129:


This phenomenon is referred to as the "twin paradox".  Blah blah next sentence.

This is logical and accurate, as what is being quoted are the two words (twin paradox), not the two words and a piece of punctuation.  Therefore, the words being quoted are inside the quote marks, and the punctuation stays outside the quote marks.

The other way is not logical, and is in many cases inaccurate, because the punctuation is not part of the quote:

This phenomenon is referred to as the "twin paradox."  Blah blah next sentence.

There is also the clarity that comes with the specific punctuation marks that end a sentence, the most common one being the period.  If a period is the piece of punctuation that ends a given sentence, it should come at the end of the sentence.  The very end.  As in, last.  Question marks and exclamation points fall in this category.  Quotation marks do not.  They do not signal the completion of a sentence, and they do not trigger a reset, if you will, in a reader's processing of the written information in front of him.

« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 02:21:21 pm by SwitchedFromStarcraft »
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Witherweaver

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Re: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?
« Reply #88 on: June 03, 2015, 02:18:24 pm »
0

Right.  The point is that I'm arguing for the former, not the latter, and you had suggested the opposite. 
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Re: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?
« Reply #89 on: June 03, 2015, 02:25:12 pm »
0

You've made that clear, especially in #131 above.  I'm agreeing with you and theory, and disagreeing with the others (ashersky, etc.).
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eHalcyon

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Re: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?
« Reply #90 on: June 03, 2015, 03:09:29 pm »
+2

You've made that clear, especially in #131 above.  I'm agreeing with you and theory, and disagreeing with the others (ashersky, etc.).

Was there anybody other than ashersky? :P
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etc.

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Re: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?
« Reply #91 on: June 03, 2015, 03:37:20 pm »
+3

You've made that clear, especially in #131 above.  I'm agreeing with you and theory, and disagreeing with the others (ashersky, etc.).

Was there anybody other than ashersky? :P

Yes, me. That's what he said: "(ashersky, etc.).."
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SwitchedFromStarcraft

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Re: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?
« Reply #92 on: June 03, 2015, 04:15:51 pm »
0

You've made that clear, especially in #131 above.  I'm agreeing with you and theory, and disagreeing with the others (ashersky, etc.).

Was there anybody other than ashersky? :P

Yes, me. That's what he said: "(ashersky, etc.).."

Double periods to end a sentence?

Upon reread, I suppose I was incorrectly putting sudgy in with ashersky.  My apologies for that one.

My et cetera also included e, as he seemed to side with ash in #186.

Do note, though, that I have actually voted for no one, as that seems scummy without more data.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 04:25:07 pm by SwitchedFromStarcraft »
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Awaclus

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Re: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?
« Reply #93 on: June 03, 2015, 04:28:29 pm »
+3

Double periods to end a sentence?

Sounds like a cruel alternative form of punishment for women who want to get out of jail.
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theory

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Re: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?
« Reply #94 on: June 03, 2015, 04:31:35 pm »
+2

I actually mean, you all owe me like 500000 respect for all the easy respect I'm earning you folks in the majority by being your opponent in this argument where I'm outnumbered by numberish folk.

What I wouldn't give for another creative writing major to join this forum.
I earned a creative writing certificate in college, was the opinions editor for one campus newspaper and a columnist for another, and now write a lot as a lawyer.  (I even used to write a board game blog, a long time ago.)  So I write a lot!  Can't just dismiss my views as "numberish".
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theory

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Re: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?
« Reply #95 on: June 03, 2015, 04:33:04 pm »
+2

Also unless people "strenuously object", I will split this into another thread.  (It's almost RSP-worthy!)
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Robz888

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Re: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?
« Reply #96 on: June 03, 2015, 04:40:26 pm »
0

I'm a big believer in doing it like "this", although I am bound to follow the stupid rules forbidding that.

What really gets me is the apostrophe. I just want to add " 's " no matter how many times the letter " s " appears at the end of somebody's name, regardless of whether the name was biblical or whatever.
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ashersky

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Re: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?
« Reply #97 on: June 03, 2015, 04:44:20 pm »
0

I actually mean, you all owe me like 500000 respect for all the easy respect I'm earning you folks in the majority by being your opponent in this argument where I'm outnumbered by numberish folk.

What I wouldn't give for another creative writing major to join this forum.
I earned a creative writing certificate in college, was the opinions editor for one campus newspaper and a columnist for another, and now write a lot as a lawyer.  (I even used to write a board game blog, a long time ago.)  So I write a lot!  Can't just dismiss my views as "numberish".

What style guide does the Bar, or ALA, or whatever the national lawyer league is called, enforce?

What style guide was enforced at your college?  Mine was MLA, which clearly requires periods and commas inside the quotation marks.  Were you purposefully getting lower grades in college just to stick your middle finger up at rules with which you disagree?

(On a side note, if you think lawyer writing is creative, you are crazy.)
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Re: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?
« Reply #98 on: June 03, 2015, 04:45:39 pm »
0

I'm a big believer in doing it like "this", although I am bound to follow the stupid rules forbidding that.

What really gets me is the apostrophe. I just want to add " 's " no matter how many times the letter " s " appears at the end of somebody's name, regardless of whether the name was biblical or whatever.

But you should. If a person is named Jones Smith, you can refer to Jones's name like that.
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theory

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Re: Punctuation inside or outside quotes?
« Reply #99 on: June 03, 2015, 04:48:18 pm »
+1

There is no style guide for lawyers, not even recommended, certainly not enforced.  (There's the "Blue Book", but it covers citation format and not punctuation matters as far as I'm aware.)  But I certainly agree that most American lawyers keep punctuation inside quotes.

If I am writing for someone, either at work or previously at school, I conform my style to whichever they prefer.  When I am writing on my own - and I believe this is true throughout f.ds and my college newspaper work - I always use logical punctuation.
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