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[Archetype]

I couldn't find the log so I can't do that cool image thing, but the board was:

$2: Lighthouse
$3: Sage, Market Square
$4: Bishop, Fortress, Procession
$5: Baker, Governor
$6: Goons
$7: King's Court

In addition to the starting coin token it was also Colony game. I went Governor/Market Square and slowly acquired more Governors with Procession + Fortress before going nuts with Goons. Fun, crazy board that I'd love to play with it again. How would you approach it?

[JacquesTheBard]

Was this a randomly generated board? Because the likelihood of these many powerful cards lining up all at once has to be VERY small.

[Archetype]

Was this a randomly generated board? Because the likelihood of these many powerful cards lining up all at once has to be VERY small.

It was a Casual game that someone else hosted, so it's certainly possible that they had handpicked the cards. That hadn't crossed my mind.

[2.71828.....]

I couldn't find the log so I can't do that cool image thing

Here is the log.  Most of the time if you search with one player and at least 5 cards you can find it.  (don't forget to select "casual" though.)

Code: [Select]

Lighthouse, Market Square, Sage, Bishop, Fortress, Procession, Baker, Governor, Goons, King's Court

[2.71828.....]

Although now that I see what was said in this thread, probably the reason you couldn't get the log:

Is gokosalvager.com down?

It's been down since yesterday evening for me.

Back up, and catching up on the logs now.  In the interim, please enjoy the nonsensical "Last game recorded game finished..." message.

[DG]

I think you should be trying to move towards a deck where you can play king's courts, governors, goons, and then bishops. Getting too much early gold will increase spending but impede the end game drawing. A sage/governor opening with an early procession might get you there.

[2.71828.....]

I think you should be trying to move towards a deck where you can play king's courts, governors, goons, and then bishops. Getting too much early gold will increase spending but impede the end game drawing. A sage/governor opening with an early procession might get you there.

I agree, but you have to remember to have a lighthouse out each turn.  You don't have to buy lighthouse though.  You can remodel a copper to it.  Or buy it, depending on draws.

This board really is all about who gets up and running the fastest.  Not sure if there is a clear path to that though

[swedenman]

I think Bishoping Fortresses should probably be part of your payload. Then again the Fortress/Goons/KC/Governor interactions may be so ludicrously strong that throwing in Bishops may be unnecessary. I really don't know. You need to have a Lighthouse out every turn or your opponent can spam the Governor draw and then Goons you. Getting to KC and Goons faster than your opponent is huge. If your opponent gets to Goons before you you might be able to stay in the running as long as you've got Lighthouses, though. This board looks fun as hell.

EDIT: Hm, I just noticed that Bishop is the only trashing. Probably want to avoid Bishop, then. Sage is probably really good.

[luser]

Its clear goons board. Points from bishop are completely irrelevant. If you want to use him then to trash coppers.
I would open governor-sage to quickly get two golds for initial economy. Then on 4 procession/fortress 5 governor, 6 goons, 7 kc.

This game would end by turn ten on piles so it would be complicated. Probably a first player to kc-governor to change fortress into three goons will win.

[pubby]

Its clear goons board. Points from bishop are completely irrelevant

I don't think Goons is obvious. Kinging Bishops gives tons of points, and you don't really need the buys. I mean sure, Goons is good, but I would rather buy KC at that price point because it gives more control.

[swedenman]

Its clear goons board. Points from bishop are completely irrelevant. If you want to use him then to trash coppers.
I would open governor-sage to quickly get two golds for initial economy. Then on 4 procession/fortress 5 governor, 6 goons, 7 kc.

This game would end by turn ten on piles so it would be complicated. Probably a first player to kc-governor to change fortress into three goons will win.

If you avoid Bishop it's so your opponent doesn't get the free trashing, but Bishops in your deck would be extremely useful. The Goons will run fast on a board like this, and with the draw potential on this board a Bishop or two to trash Fortresses isn't a bad idea at all. You can even KC Bishop to trash one Fortress 3 times for 9 VP. The Golds from Governor also make great Bishop fodder, as they net 4 VP each and you don't want too many in your deck, anyway. Goons is certainly the key card here, but I don't at all agree that Bishop is irrelevant.

[luser]

Its clear goons board. Points from bishop are completely irrelevant. If you want to use him then to trash coppers.
I would open governor-sage to quickly get two golds for initial economy. Then on 4 procession/fortress 5 governor, 6 goons, 7 kc.

This game would end by turn ten on piles so it would be complicated. Probably a first player to kc-governor to change fortress into three goons will win.

If you avoid Bishop it's so your opponent doesn't get the free trashing, but Bishops in your deck would be extremely useful. The Goons will run fast on a board like this, and with the draw potential on this board a Bishop or two to trash Fortresses isn't a bad idea at all. You can even KC Bishop to trash one Fortress 3 times for 9 VP. The Golds from Governor also make great Bishop fodder, as they net 4 VP each and you don't want too many in your deck, anyway. Goons is certainly the key card here, but I don't at all agree that Bishop is irrelevant.

As I said its goons game. There first player that could three-pile 99% of times simply wins. Trying to bishop fortress will harm you as it doesn't help with being first player to three-pile and opponent would win instead.

Only exception would be if you had 80+ point lead from bishoping fortress, that what archetype got last turn and opponent couldn't end game with win. Also you would be better pointwise to kc a market square/goons with at least three goons in play.

So yes, bishop is completely irrelevant here unless you could trash with it more than opponent.

[swedenman]

Its clear goons board. Points from bishop are completely irrelevant. If you want to use him then to trash coppers.
I would open governor-sage to quickly get two golds for initial economy. Then on 4 procession/fortress 5 governor, 6 goons, 7 kc.

This game would end by turn ten on piles so it would be complicated. Probably a first player to kc-governor to change fortress into three goons will win.

If you avoid Bishop it's so your opponent doesn't get the free trashing, but Bishops in your deck would be extremely useful. The Goons will run fast on a board like this, and with the draw potential on this board a Bishop or two to trash Fortresses isn't a bad idea at all. You can even KC Bishop to trash one Fortress 3 times for 9 VP. The Golds from Governor also make great Bishop fodder, as they net 4 VP each and you don't want too many in your deck, anyway. Goons is certainly the key card here, but I don't at all agree that Bishop is irrelevant.

As I said its goons game. There first player that could three-pile 99% of times simply wins. Trying to bishop fortress will harm you as it doesn't help with being first player to three-pile and opponent would win instead.

Only exception would be if you had 80+ point lead from bishoping fortress, that what archetype got last turn and opponent couldn't end game with win. Also you would be better pointwise to kc a market square/goons with at least three goons in play.

So yes, bishop is completely irrelevant here unless you could trash with it more than opponent.

It's not about racing to empty 3 piles, it's about being the one who actually empties the 3rd pile. In this scenario it's often smart to ease back on emptying piles. In such a situation I think Bishop is really useful. Goons are great and all, but KC doesn't multiply the VP gain. Also I'm not sure what you're saying about Market Square, Goons provides plenty of Buys. Any more and you can't really take advantage of them without junking yourself.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Bishop is a must-buy, but it's got its uses here.

[luser]

Its clear goons board. Points from bishop are completely irrelevant. If you want to use him then to trash coppers.
I would open governor-sage to quickly get two golds for initial economy. Then on 4 procession/fortress 5 governor, 6 goons, 7 kc.

This game would end by turn ten on piles so it would be complicated. Probably a first player to kc-governor to change fortress into three goons will win.

If you avoid Bishop it's so your opponent doesn't get the free trashing, but Bishops in your deck would be extremely useful. The Goons will run fast on a board like this, and with the draw potential on this board a Bishop or two to trash Fortresses isn't a bad idea at all. You can even KC Bishop to trash one Fortress 3 times for 9 VP. The Golds from Governor also make great Bishop fodder, as they net 4 VP each and you don't want too many in your deck, anyway. Goons is certainly the key card here, but I don't at all agree that Bishop is irrelevant.

As I said its goons game. There first player that could three-pile 99% of times simply wins. Trying to bishop fortress will harm you as it doesn't help with being first player to three-pile and opponent would win instead.

Only exception would be if you had 80+ point lead from bishoping fortress, that what archetype got last turn and opponent couldn't end game with win. Also you would be better pointwise to kc a market square/goons with at least three goons in play.

So yes, bishop is completely irrelevant here unless you could trash with it more than opponent.

It's not about racing to empty 3 piles, it's about being the one who actually empties the 3rd pile. In this scenario it's often smart to ease back on emptying piles. In such a situation I think Bishop is really useful. Goons are great and all, but KC doesn't multiply the VP gain. Also I'm not sure what you're saying about Market Square, Goons provides plenty of Buys. Any more and you can't really take advantage of them without junking yourself.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Bishop is a must-buy, but it's got its uses here.

On last turn you don't care about junking and you could buy extra market squares

You contradict yourself. Yes, you shouldn't race three piles but build deck that will empty three piles. Getting vp from bishop,monument, colony is mistake as it slows down deck and you couldn't empty three piles while opponent could. As archetype played if he didn't made mistakes like buying platinum instead kings court he could win with same vp at turn 12. If you waste time with bishop you would get perhaps 30 points before game ends.

In this kingdom bishop is mistake. If you bought procession instead then you wouldn't get 9 points probably instantly win. You would kc-procession-fortress to get three governors. On same turn you would remodel governor with governor to kc, then you would kc governor to remodel fortress into three goons. That probably empties goons and governor piles, and with 16 coin and 8 buys empty estates as third pile, game over.

[swedenman]

Its clear goons board. Points from bishop are completely irrelevant. If you want to use him then to trash coppers.
I would open governor-sage to quickly get two golds for initial economy. Then on 4 procession/fortress 5 governor, 6 goons, 7 kc.

This game would end by turn ten on piles so it would be complicated. Probably a first player to kc-governor to change fortress into three goons will win.

If you avoid Bishop it's so your opponent doesn't get the free trashing, but Bishops in your deck would be extremely useful. The Goons will run fast on a board like this, and with the draw potential on this board a Bishop or two to trash Fortresses isn't a bad idea at all. You can even KC Bishop to trash one Fortress 3 times for 9 VP. The Golds from Governor also make great Bishop fodder, as they net 4 VP each and you don't want too many in your deck, anyway. Goons is certainly the key card here, but I don't at all agree that Bishop is irrelevant.

As I said its goons game. There first player that could three-pile 99% of times simply wins. Trying to bishop fortress will harm you as it doesn't help with being first player to three-pile and opponent would win instead.

Only exception would be if you had 80+ point lead from bishoping fortress, that what archetype got last turn and opponent couldn't end game with win. Also you would be better pointwise to kc a market square/goons with at least three goons in play.

So yes, bishop is completely irrelevant here unless you could trash with it more than opponent.

It's not about racing to empty 3 piles, it's about being the one who actually empties the 3rd pile. In this scenario it's often smart to ease back on emptying piles. In such a situation I think Bishop is really useful. Goons are great and all, but KC doesn't multiply the VP gain. Also I'm not sure what you're saying about Market Square, Goons provides plenty of Buys. Any more and you can't really take advantage of them without junking yourself.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Bishop is a must-buy, but it's got its uses here.

On last turn you don't care about junking and you could buy extra market squares

You contradict yourself. Yes, you shouldn't race three piles but build deck that will empty three piles. Getting vp from bishop,monument, colony is mistake as it slows down deck and you couldn't empty three piles while opponent could. As archetype played if he didn't made mistakes like buying platinum instead kings court he could win with same vp at turn 12. If you waste time with bishop you would get perhaps 30 points before game ends.

In this kingdom bishop is mistake. If you bought procession instead then you wouldn't get 9 points probably instantly win. You would kc-procession-fortress to get three governors. On same turn you would remodel governor with governor to kc, then you would kc governor to remodel fortress into three goons. That probably empties goons and governor piles, and with 16 coin and 8 buys empty estates as third pile, game over.

Erm, okay.

[terminalCopper]

I played it against Conqueror Bot, here's the last attempt:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150603/log.516d4ab2e4b082c74d7b8473.1433399663649.txt

I think the fastest way to get many points is ...

• get many governors for draw/remodeling
• play them more often with processions and kings courts
• generate golds with market squares
• remodel these golds into provinces
• use the goons resulting from processed governors for VP's in the final turn

There is certainly room for improvement, but I don't think that another strategy is better, because the given game ends after 9 turns with 64 points.