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Author Topic: Making poor buying decisions  (Read 12137 times)

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doesitgoboom

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Making poor buying decisions
« on: May 27, 2015, 10:24:20 am »
+4

I find myself that I will over buy some cards when in the long run they are not the greatest buys. For one example I tend to way over buy villages with no reason behind it. I will end up drawing them all but not hit one terminal. So I just wonder how people learn to hone their buying process. Watching AdamH youtube video he seems very good at talking his way through a buy. The other thing he tends to do well that I have no skill in is the ability to track his deck and know when to stop drawing to not trigger the shuffle.
I tend to be if it is in my hand and I can play it I will play it.
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Awaclus

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Re: Making poor buying decisions
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2015, 11:18:42 am »
+35

Learning to not trigger the shuffle is as easy as stopping to ask yourself "does playing this actually benefit me" before playing each card (and not playing it if the answer is no).


Making correct buying decisions is a lot less trivial. It's a good idea to move away from the "I have X coins, let's see which card I can buy for X, oh, there's Village, that seems nice, I'll get that" line of thinking and instead start thinking in terms of deck composition and the needs of your overall strategy. If you're playing an engine strategy, for example, you need trashing early, a good balance of engine components in the early-mid game and payload and more engine components in the late-mid game. So, after deciding that engine is the best strategy in the kingdom, you should usually think along the lines of "I need trashing now — how can I get it?" and if it's the case that the trashing in the kingdom is more expensive than you can afford right now, plan ahead and buy cards that will help you reach the more expensive price point early. And in the early game, you should consider how you're going to acquire the engine parts later; you might need some economy for that, or you can use gainers to gain them, or you could use cards such as Wishing Well that are less efficient at giving you coins to spend, but won't get in your way later.

Basically, you should just have an idea of what your deck needs and how you're going to get what you need. The point is focusing on the deck and the purpose the cards serve in it, rather than the individual cards and their strengths.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 11:20:01 am by Awaclus »
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Burning Skull

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Re: Making poor buying decisions
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2015, 12:55:27 pm »
+2

....

So there is a nice long post about strategy. It needs an upvote

GendoIkari

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Re: Making poor buying decisions
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2015, 03:23:36 pm »
+2

....

So there is a nice long post about strategy. It needs an upvote

But it doesn't contain any memes or inside jokes.
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Burning Skull

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Re: Making poor buying decisions
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2015, 04:54:22 pm »
+2

But it doesn't contain any memes or inside jokes.

Hmm... That's a downside, indeed. Next time somebody posts a strategical advice he should add a couple Scout jokes. Especially if he doesn't mint some really ingenious humor.

Kirian

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Re: Making poor buying decisions
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2015, 05:18:54 pm »
+7

We purchased a house at the height of the housing bubble.  A very poor decision, but alas only in hindsight.
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Accatitippi

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Re: Making poor buying decisions
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2015, 05:29:04 pm »
+16

We purchased a house at the height of the housing bubble.  A very poor decision, but alas only in hindsight.
This goes to show - never green too early.
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Kirian

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Re: Making poor buying decisions
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2015, 05:33:04 pm »
0

We purchased a house at the height of the housing bubble.  A very poor decision, but alas only in hindsight.
This goes to show - never green too early.

Well played!
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DG

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Re: Making poor buying decisions
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2015, 05:49:21 pm »
+2

We purchased a house at the height of the housing bubble.  A very poor decision, but alas only in hindsight.
This goes to show - never green too early.

Unless you start with a hovel.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Making poor buying decisions
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2015, 05:54:13 pm »
+1

We purchased a house at the height of the housing bubble.  A very poor decision, but alas only in hindsight.
This goes to show - never green too early.

Unless you start with a hovel.

The statement stands.
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Throwaway_bicycling

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Re: Making poor buying decisions
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2015, 05:59:25 pm »
+1

We purchased a house at the height of the housing bubble.  A very poor decision, but alas only in hindsight.
We bought our house in August, 2009, which was basically the absolute low of the market in the DC area. A pretty good choice, but, again, only in hindsight.

But, back to Dominion for a moment. ;)

You probably should have some long term plan in mind at the outset of the game, but if I have learned anything from the collected streams of Mic Q, it is that you need to be flexible. I am still at best mediocre at the game for a lot of reasons, but I do remember the first time when I came to a situation where I had $5 to spend on one buy, but knew I really needed a Hamlet, and I actually bought what I needed. So in one reading: $5 for Hamlet? Really? In the correct reading: score! I got the Hamlet I needed!
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LastFootnote

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Re: Making poor buying decisions
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2015, 05:59:30 pm »
+1

We purchased a house at the height of the housing bubble.  A very poor decision, but alas only in hindsight.
This goes to show - never green too early.

Unless you start with a hovel.

The statement stands.

Yes, by definition, you should never too anything too early. Nor should you do things too late.
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pubby

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Re: Making poor buying decisions
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2015, 06:01:30 pm »
+3

There's always discussions on this site about individual cards. A whole bunch of talk about combos, synergies, and very specific information that gets presented as fact. But the thing is, the top players aren't good because they memorized a billion combo lists. They're good because they know how to approach and analyze the game effectively, knowledge that hasn't been covered enough.

I glad this thread exists, I'm glad the last engine article WW wrote exists, and I hope more discussion on how to analyze the game takes place. Although please, enough with the shitposting.
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Re: Making poor buying decisions
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2015, 06:02:46 pm »
0

Although please, enough with the shitposting.

Please give a thorough definition of "shitposting".
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Making poor buying decisions
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2015, 06:09:11 pm »
+1

We purchased a house at the height of the housing bubble.  A very poor decision, but alas only in hindsight.
This goes to show - never green too early.

Unless you start with a hovel.

The statement stands.

Yes, by definition, you should never too anything too early. Nor should you do things too late.

The number one rule of Dominion: Never do anything too anything.

The great thing about this rule is that it extends to other board games. And life in general.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Making poor buying decisions
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2015, 06:10:49 pm »
+1

We purchased a house at the height of the housing bubble.  A very poor decision, but alas only in hindsight.
This goes to show - never green too early.

Unless you start with a hovel.

The statement stands.

Yes, by definition, you should never too anything too early. Nor should you do things too late.

The number one rule of Dominion: Never do anything too anything.

The great thing about this rule is that it extends to other board games. And life in general.

"Never do driving too sober."

Wait, what?
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Burning Skull

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Re: Making poor buying decisions
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2015, 06:12:38 pm »
0

Although please, enough with the shitposting.

NEVER!!!

Awaclus

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Re: Making poor buying decisions
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2015, 06:13:03 pm »
+5

Yes, by definition, you should never too anything too early. Nor should you do things too late.

You should do things precisely when you mean to.
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werothegreat

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Re: Making poor buying decisions
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2015, 07:18:16 pm »
+2

Yes, by definition, you should never too anything too early. Nor should you do things too late.

You should do things precisely when you mean to.

Funny how it's always people who are late who say that.
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doesitgoboom

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Re: Making poor buying decisions
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2015, 10:02:49 pm »
0

What about Dukes? This is the one card I can not stop buying. It is my weakness.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: Making poor buying decisions
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2015, 10:10:27 pm »
+5

What about Dukes? This is the one card I can not stop buying. It is my weakness.

It's a pretty good card but make sure you buy out the Duchies first.
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liopoil

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Re: Making poor buying decisions
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2015, 10:11:59 pm »
+3

What about Dukes? This is the one card I can not stop buying. It is my weakness.
Well I hope you are buying duchies first. All* the duchies

*Except when you shouldn't get quite all of the duchies because the game is ending.

But now we are talking about specific cards, which is becoming less and less useful as more expansions come out.

Edit:
For one example I tend to way over buy villages with no reason behind it. I will end up drawing them all but not hit one terminal.
In general a 1:1 ratio of terminals to villages is a good rule of thumb, but I like to take it a bit further and say you should usually have at least 1 more terminal than village. And two terminals before your first village too, and maybe stick with two more terminals than villages while you aren't drawing that much. In strategies that don't intend to go on crazy action turns, you might not want ANY villages, even if you are getting 3+ terminals. For example, Cultist really doesn't like other action cards at all, so the engine really has to be there for a village to be worth it.

There is a general feeling that terminal collision is BAD and we should to everything possible to avoid it. I think that terminal collision is a necessary risk a lot of the time and that buying villages or limiting terminals in your deck feels like the safer route, but can be much slower and can lose you the game. Drawing a village and a remodel together is hardly any better than drawing two remodels. Okay, remodel is special because it can deal with terminal collisions. But in general, having a left over action is only marginally better than a left over action in hand, especially because in a terminal collision you still get to play whichever terminal is better.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 10:21:58 pm by liopoil »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Making poor buying decisions
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2015, 10:31:13 pm »
+2

We purchased a house at the height of the housing bubble.  A very poor decision, but alas only in hindsight.
This goes to show - never green too early.

Unless you start with a hovel.

The statement stands.

Yes, by definition, you should never too anything too early. Nor should you do things too late.

True, you should do things precisely when you mean to.

*Ninja'd*
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doesitgoboom

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Re: Making poor buying decisions
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2015, 07:27:00 am »
0

I meant Nobles not dukes. I was a little out of it when I wrote that last night. Didn't realize until I played a game that I confused them.
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Awaclus

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Re: Making poor buying decisions
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2015, 07:47:43 am »
0

I meant Nobles not dukes. I was a little out of it when I wrote that last night. Didn't realize until I played a game that I confused them.

If you're "overbuying" Nobles and Villages, you're doing pretty well already. Just get rid of your starting 10 cards first and you should be pretty reliably drawing your entire deck every turn. Then you just need to remember that drawing your deck every turn is not your goal, it's just a means to an end — that is, playing your payload cards a lot, which means that you also need the payload cards in your deck because otherwise you can't play them.

On the other hand, if it's not an engine game, you don't necessarily want any Nobles at all and if Nobles/big money is the best strategy on the board, then you want a couple, but not more.

In general a 1:1 ratio of terminals to villages is a good rule of thumb, but I like to take it a bit further and say you should usually have at least 1 more terminal than village. And two terminals before your first village too, and maybe stick with two more terminals than villages while you aren't drawing that much. In strategies that don't intend to go on crazy action turns, you might not want ANY villages, even if you are getting 3+ terminals. For example, Cultist really doesn't like other action cards at all, so the engine really has to be there for a village to be worth it.

There is a general feeling that terminal collision is BAD and we should to everything possible to avoid it. I think that terminal collision is a necessary risk a lot of the time and that buying villages or limiting terminals in your deck feels like the safer route, but can be much slower and can lose you the game. Drawing a village and a remodel together is hardly any better than drawing two remodels. Okay, remodel is special because it can deal with terminal collisions. But in general, having a left over action is only marginally better than a left over action in hand, especially because in a terminal collision you still get to play whichever terminal is better.

The main purpose of splitters is to let you play more Actions after your terminal draw. You don't need any splitters as long as you don't have any terminal draw, but you do want more splitters than terminal draw. I usually buy two Swindlers before my first Village, but two Villages before my first Smithy.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 08:39:37 am by Awaclus »
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