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Author Topic: CARD OF THE WEEK #10: Peasant (and etc.)  (Read 5724 times)

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werothegreat

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CARD OF THE WEEK #10: Peasant (and etc.)
« on: May 25, 2015, 12:40:52 pm »
+3

We finally get to an Adventures card!  I realize not everyone has gotten a chance to play with the new expansion yet, but it has been out for a month, so let's talk about... Peasant!


Starting questions:
* How many Peasants do you buy?
* Which upgrade do you try to get the most of?
* Which upgrade is most useful?
* Do you ever intentionally not get a Teacher?
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #10: Peasant (and etc.)
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2015, 03:49:43 pm »
0

Disclaimer: I haven't played with Adventures yet.

* How many Peasants do you buy?
I imagine sometime you only want 1 for a Teacher, but sometime you'll want to spam Soldiers and/or Disciples as well. It probably depends on how quickly you can do it and how much time you'll have. I imagine quite often you'll be picking up extra Peasants with a spare $2 and a buy - not sure how often you'll go out of your way to get more than 1 though.

* Which upgrade do you try to get the most of?
Often Disciple - it works excellently with Teacher. On the other hand, if you're playing a lot of Attack cards, an army of Soldiers can mass you a heap of coins.

* Which upgrade is most useful?
Teacher, then Disciple. Fugitive is just about always useful, but Soldier has way more potential. Peasant can be useful for the extra buy before you get a chance to use your +buy token, but you'll generally want to get rid of it as soon as possible.

* Do you ever intentionally not get a Teacher?
I think the main reason this will happen is if you're not going to get time to utilise Teacher. Generally if you have time, if you want Disciples, you'll want a Teacher. There may be times when you get Peasants just for Soldiers, I'm not sure.
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werothegreat

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #10: Peasant (and etc.)
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2015, 05:41:55 pm »
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What I find interesting is that Peasant is at least somewhat useful, whereas Page is a card you would never buy (barring Vineyards) if it didn't upgrade into anything.
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #10: Peasant (and etc.)
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2015, 05:43:38 pm »
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What I find interesting is that Peasant is at least somewhat useful, whereas Page is a card you would never buy (barring Vineyards) if it didn't upgrade into anything.

Although Page would be a much better target for Teacher.
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shmeur

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #10: Peasant (and etc.)
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2015, 07:42:34 pm »
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So I've never played with them, but speculatively speaking, I think Disciple is the best.  And can't you Disciple Disciples to gain more Disciples?
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Jimmmmm

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #10: Peasant (and etc.)
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2015, 07:53:45 pm »
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And can't you Disciple Disciples to gain more Disciples?

Sadly no; Disciple is not in the supply. If you Disciple a Disciple, the first Disciple is just a Throne Room.
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JacquesTheBard

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #10: Peasant (and etc.)
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2015, 07:59:54 pm »
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Discipling Disciples does not work, because you can't gain cards that aren't in the supply.

I find that Teacher is best on boards with easy "spam" targets. If all of your cards are reserves such as transmogrify or Guide, it becomes much less profitable to add tokens, because you will only use the on-play effect every other turn at best. Durations pose a similar issue. Cheaper cards and cantrips are generally much more powerful, especially if you have ample +buy to acquire more copies of the card in question upon Teacher's arrival.

You seldom need a 2nd copy of Teacher; one is usually enough to get out the tokens you need, as often a simple +card or +action token will grant you an extraordinary advantage. However, I do recommend multiple Peasants if the opportunity strikes. Disciple is an outstanding card in engines, and barring the rarest of boards, you CAN build an engine if Teacher is present. Surprisingly, Soldier works well as a payload in the late game if the board contains a large number of attacks. A recent IRL game of mine ended in a megaturn where I made nearly $40 from soldiers alone. Often, this will be redundant, because an engine enabled by Teacher is often strong enough not to need the minor detour for extra coin, but it's a useful trick to keep in mind.

I have yet to find a kingdom where Peasant did not prove worthwhile. I enjoy it more and more the further I play with it, and look forward to whatever new things the forum discovers about it over time.
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jomini

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #10: Peasant (and etc.)
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2015, 12:25:19 pm »
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Very limited experience, but Disciple is extremely good a 3-piling and Teacher is at least two turns away from doing anything. For an extremely reliable and efficient engine (which Disciple and Fugitive pretty much assure), 2 turns is a bit of an eternity.

If, on turn N I have to decide to get a Teacher or not then I have the following outcomes:
N+1: If Teacher - gain nothing, one less play of a key action. If still Disciple, play a key action once extra, gain an extra action card.
N+2: If Teacher - gain a bonus to my most popular action action card. If still disciple play a a key action card 2x extra (Possibly 3x).

So say your magic card is something simple like Grand Market. If you add a Coin to it, even on N+2 you only beat keeping the Disciple if you have 5 Gm. Or say you add +1 card to Smithy, again you need more than 4 Smithies to come out ahead.

Teacher is strongest when the board flat out doesn't have something you need - action (biggest, turns almost every board into an engine board) draw (e.g. Turning Moats into Smithies is a thing), and easy coin ($5 or so coin for free is very helpful). +buy is fairly useless outside of tactical play - Peasant offers a +buy itself and you rarely need mass +buy outside of Goons and or a tactical Duchy piledrive/3 pile threat.

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werothegreat

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #10: Peasant (and etc.)
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2015, 12:33:31 pm »
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Very limited experience, but Disciple is extremely good a 3-piling and Teacher is at least two turns away from doing anything. For an extremely reliable and efficient engine (which Disciple and Fugitive pretty much assure), 2 turns is a bit of an eternity.

I think this can be ameliorated if you're regularly buying and exchanging Peasant, so you have another Disciple lined up when you turn one into Teacher.
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TheEmerged

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #10: Peasant (and etc.)
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2015, 01:08:46 pm »
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DISCLAIMER: we've played with Adventures - some by itself, some with the base set - but of course opinions could change as we play more.

*How many Peasants do you buy?.
I've yet to see more than 2 bought by a single player.  Conventional Wisdom (CW) in our group seems to point toward buying them early or not at all.

* Which upgrade do you try to get the most of?.
Disciple, although I have seen a case where a player got to two soldiers and stopped.

* Which upgrade is most useful? \ * Do you ever intentionally not get a Teacher?.
Currently, the CW in our group is that Disciple might be better than Teacher.  This belief was unanimous until we had a case where the Teacher got a +Card token on Magpie and Hilarity Ensued(tm) - majority opinion though is that this was a case of Magpie being awesome not Teacher being great.  The fact that the tokens from Teacher can't stack (you could move a token from another source to be with a Teacher token but not the other way around) seems to be the biggest knock on it, with "by the time this gets to the table..." also being mentioned.

RE: Doubling Disciples
It "works", but probably not the way hoped for.  We actually had this come up and the way I figured it...
1> Play the first Disciple
2> Play the second Disciple by the first one (see #7)
3> Play the first non-Disciple action (Distant Lands in this case) - and it leaves the player's hand, as opposed to King's Court & Throne Room "revealing" it, so you can't play it again as #5.
4> Gain a copy of Distant Lands
5> Play the second non-Disciple action (Duplicate in this case) - see #3.
6> Gain a copy of Duplicate
7> You do NOT get a copy of Disciple since it is not in the Supply
8> Either or both Disciples could be exchanged for Teacher (in our case, neither was upgraded)

...I could of course have ruled that wrong.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 01:36:01 pm by TheEmerged »
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AJD

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #10: Peasant (and etc.)
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2015, 01:46:28 pm »
+1

3> Play the first non-Disciple action (Distant Lands in this case) - and it leaves the player's hand, as opposed to King's Court & Throne Room "revealing" it, so you can't play it again as #5.

I'm not quite sure what you're thinking of here, but when you play a card with King's Court or Throne Room it leaves your hand also, and you can't choose it again even if you've Throne Roomed the Throne Room or King's Courted the King's Court.
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #10: Peasant (and etc.)
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2015, 02:55:49 pm »
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I just realised something about the Travellers - they want longer games to make their final card worth it, and they also encourage longer games by having a cheap, powerful Kingdom card pile that will almost never run out.
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werothegreat

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #10: Peasant (and etc.)
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2015, 03:04:16 pm »
+1

I think the way to look at it is - treat Soldier, Disciple and Teacher as Kingdom cards (I think Fugitive is easily the weakest here), and when you want another copy of them, you buy a Peasant.  If I want 5 Disciples, I'm buying 5 Peasants.
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #10: Peasant (and etc.)
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2015, 03:50:28 pm »
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I think the way to look at it is - treat Soldier, Disciple and Teacher as Kingdom cards (I think Fugitive is easily the weakest here),

Hm, really? I mean, we know it's too strong to cost $4 as a normal card.

Quote
and when you want another copy of them, you buy a Peasant.  If I want 5 Disciples, I'm buying 5 Peasants.

Hopefully you buy a Peasant n reshuffles before you want another copy of them, not when you want another copy of them.
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #10: Peasant (and etc.)
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2015, 03:53:32 pm »
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I can easily believe that Fugitive would be too automatic as a $4 Kingdom card. That being said, the cost of getting through Peasant and Soldier is quite high. It doesn't seem that great if you're not upgrading to Disciple.
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werothegreat

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #10: Peasant (and etc.)
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2015, 04:13:53 pm »
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I think the way to look at it is - treat Soldier, Disciple and Teacher as Kingdom cards (I think Fugitive is easily the weakest here),

Hm, really? I mean, we know it's too strong to cost $4 as a normal card.

Compared to Soldier and Disciple, it really is.  Soldier can be a ridiculous money bomb if you play it right.  Disciple is the best Throne Room variant after King's Court.  Fugitive is a... decent sifter?
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #10: Peasant (and etc.)
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2015, 05:10:54 pm »
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Imagine Solider in a Scrying Pool game.  Now imagine said Scrying Pool having a coin token via Teacher on it.
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werothegreat

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #10: Peasant (and etc.)
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2015, 05:16:48 pm »
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Imagine Solider in a Scrying Pool game.  Now imagine said Scrying Pool having a coin token via Teacher on it.

Spy is a little easier to get, and a little more tempting to drop Teacher tokens on.  Urchin works, too, but kind of shares Attack space with Soldier.
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