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Author Topic: At what point should you resign?  (Read 6996 times)

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xyz123

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At what point should you resign?
« on: May 18, 2015, 06:28:46 pm »
+3

I was wondering how far behind people think you need to be for it to be the right thing to resign.

I was playing a game on Goko where my opponent afterwards accused me of not resigning against an obviously better player and just dragging the game out in the hope he would resign out of boredom.

The game was long and drawn out but considering the board included Swindler, Marauder and no trashing I think that is inevitable. He also only beat me by 12 points and ended the game by buying the last province, which meant at the start of his last turn he was 6 points up.

I will admit he was most likely to win at that stage but it is not inconceivable that he could have only had 3 or 4 to spend and bought an Estate, with me Swindling one of his Duchies and picking up the last Province myself. In which case I would have won.
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Re: At what point should you resign?
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2015, 06:34:37 pm »
+17

I think as long as you're still legitimately playing (not just slowplaying the other person or whatever), there is never any obligation to resign. Basically resign if and when the lack of enjoyment from losing badly outweighs the likelihood of coming back and winning. Of course, even if you have no chance of winning, you still have the right to play through the game. Perhaps there's something more you can learn from it etc.
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SCSN

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Re: At what point should you resign?
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2015, 07:03:13 pm »
+10

The right moment to decide you don't want to waste time against "obviously inferior" players is before you actually start the game.
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Re: At what point should you resign?
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2015, 07:09:21 pm »
+1

Resign when you feel like resigning.
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Re: At what point should you resign?
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2015, 07:09:43 pm »
+4

My feeling is you have the right to resign whenever you don't feel like playing, and the right to keep playing whenever you want to. I think that begrudging someone who wants to play the game out for that small percentage that they'll win is petty.
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Re: At what point should you resign?
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2015, 07:14:24 pm »
+4

there is never any obligation to resign

This.  Additionally:

One of the consequences of Dominion having a sizable component of chance is that it's very rare for a game to be a complete write off.  I've lost count of the number of games I'm certain I have a total lock on, only to lose to poor shuffles, a surprise 3-pile or a poor decision to buy/not buy Provinces.  The game is very rarely over before it's over.

Suggesting that your opponent resign when you're 6 points ahead with one Province remaining is just ridiculous.
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Kirian

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Re: At what point should you resign?
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2015, 07:29:05 pm »
+4

there is never any obligation to resign

This.  Additionally:

One of the consequences of Dominion having a sizable component of chance is that it's very rare for a game to be a complete write off.  I've lost count of the number of games I'm certain I have a total lock on, only to lose to poor shuffles, a surprise 3-pile or a poor decision to buy/not buy Provinces.  The game is very rarely over before it's over.

Suggesting that your opponent resign when you're 6 points ahead with one Province remaining is just ridiculous.

The exception here is the 44 point threshold (41 with Shelters).  With no alt VP available, when someone has half the points, the game is usually over.  Obviously Swindler and other trashing attacks make this less solid, but it happens often enough to mention I think.
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Rubby

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Re: At what point should you resign?
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2015, 08:58:31 pm »
+6

I was playing a game on Goko where my opponent afterwards accused me of not resigning against an obviously better player and just dragging the game out in the hope he would resign out of boredom.

Sounds like your opponent was trash talking as much as he was complaining. I suggest blacklisting this opponent. Most online Dominion players are not so obnoxious.
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Deadlock39

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Re: At what point should you resign?
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2015, 10:01:09 pm »
0

I was playing a game on Goko where my opponent afterwards accused me of not resigning against an obviously better player and just dragging the game out in the hope he would resign out of boredom.

Sounds like your opponent was trash talking as much as he was complaining. I suggest blacklisting this opponent. Most online Dominion players are not so obnoxious.

100% This.

Ignore these poor sports, and blacklist them if it bothers you.  People who berate you for not resigning or taking time to think about your play are just poor sports who aren't worth your time.

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Re: At what point should you resign?
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2015, 10:21:28 pm »
+2

You never have any obligation to resign, even when it is mathematically impossible for you to win the match. If the would be winner isn't willing to play out the whole match, they shouldn't win. That simple.

That said, I tend to resign once it is literally impossible for me to win the match, unless the game is just a few turns from ending anyway.
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jaketheyak

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Re: At what point should you resign?
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2015, 11:15:15 pm »
+1

You never have any obligation to resign, even when it is mathematically impossible for you to win the match. If the would be winner isn't willing to play out the whole match, they shouldn't win. That simple.

That said, I tend to resign once it is literally impossible for me to win the match, unless the game is just a few turns from ending anyway.

Yes, it's a game.
It should be fun whether you are winning or not.

The time to resign is the point at which either you're no longer having fun or you think it would be more fun to play a new game.
For many people this coincides neatly with the point at which they think they can no longer win, but that's not the case for everybody.

Don't let anybody pressure you into resigning and don't ever be afraid to blacklist poor sports.
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Re: At what point should you resign?
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2015, 11:19:44 pm »
+2

You never have any obligation to resign, even when it is mathematically impossible for you to win the match. If the would be winner isn't willing to play out the whole match, they shouldn't win. That simple.

Yeah, you win either when the game declares you the winner or when your opponent declares you the winner. The loser has the prerogative to prematurely declare the result; the winner does not.

Of course, in a slog game in which the winner is clearly already determined but has no way to end the game within a few turns, resigning could be seen as a polite thing to do.

On the flip side, if your opponent is about to finish the game with a win or is very likely to on their next turn, I would consider it polite to allow them to do so rather than immediately resign.
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Re: At what point should you resign?
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2015, 11:27:08 pm »
0

On the flip side, if your opponent is about to finish the game with a win or is very likely to on their next turn, I would consider it polite to allow them to do so rather than immediately resign.

I consider it polite to immediately resign. Basically, if you don't, it's because you're hoping that your opponent somehow doesn't see the forced win (which is fine, but not particularly polite), or it's because you're not paying enough attention yourself to see that the opponent has the forced win (which is fine, but not particularly polite), or it's because you're wasting everyone's time (which is rude).
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Re: At what point should you resign?
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2015, 11:34:27 pm »
+8

On the flip side, if your opponent is about to finish the game with a win or is very likely to on their next turn, I would consider it polite to allow them to do so rather than immediately resign.

I consider it polite to immediately resign. Basically, if you don't, it's because you're hoping that your opponent somehow doesn't see the forced win (which is fine, but not particularly polite), or it's because you're not paying enough attention yourself to see that the opponent has the forced win (which is fine, but not particularly polite), or it's because you're wasting everyone's time (which is rude).

…Or because you understand that some people think it's fun to actually get to run past the finish line to make the win.
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Re: At what point should you resign?
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2015, 11:37:46 pm »
0

On the flip side, if your opponent is about to finish the game with a win or is very likely to on their next turn, I would consider it polite to allow them to do so rather than immediately resign.

I consider it polite to immediately resign. Basically, if you don't, it's because you're hoping that your opponent somehow doesn't see the forced win (which is fine, but not particularly polite), or it's because you're not paying enough attention yourself to see that the opponent has the forced win (which is fine, but not particularly polite), or it's because you're wasting everyone's time (which is rude).

…Or because you understand that some people think it's fun to actually get to run past the finish line to make the win.

That's the thing, I don't understand why anyone would think it's fun to click on buttons with no purpose.
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Re: At what point should you resign?
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2015, 11:44:26 pm »
+1

On the flip side, if your opponent is about to finish the game with a win or is very likely to on their next turn, I would consider it polite to allow them to do so rather than immediately resign.

I consider it polite to immediately resign. Basically, if you don't, it's because you're hoping that your opponent somehow doesn't see the forced win (which is fine, but not particularly polite), or it's because you're not paying enough attention yourself to see that the opponent has the forced win (which is fine, but not particularly polite), or it's because you're wasting everyone's time (which is rude).

I would suggest that most people would rather win by ending the game themselves rather than by being interrupted by a "Your opponent resigned" screen. While this preference is not more important than your right to resign, I would say it's generally preferable to allow your opponent a chance to finish the game if they can.
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jaketheyak

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Re: At what point should you resign?
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2015, 11:46:50 pm »
+1

On the flip side, if your opponent is about to finish the game with a win or is very likely to on their next turn, I would consider it polite to allow them to do so rather than immediately resign.

I consider it polite to immediately resign. Basically, if you don't, it's because you're hoping that your opponent somehow doesn't see the forced win (which is fine, but not particularly polite), or it's because you're not paying enough attention yourself to see that the opponent has the forced win (which is fine, but not particularly polite), or it's because you're wasting everyone's time (which is rude).

…Or because you understand that some people think it's fun to actually get to run past the finish line to make the win.

That's the thing, I don't understand why anyone would think it's fun to click on buttons with no purpose.

I think ever saying that it's rude to not resign is completely uncool.
Different people want different things.
Just because you want to hurry up and get on to the next game, doesn't mean your opponent does.

Isn't the purpose to have fun?
Is it only fun when you're winning?

Also, saying that it's impolite not to see when the game is immediately winnable is elitist boasting.
If your opponent isn't that good at tracking the game state, they are deliberately wasting your time?
Wow.
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GendoIkari

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Re: At what point should you resign?
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2015, 11:47:40 pm »
+7

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Re: At what point should you resign?
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2015, 11:48:23 pm »
+12

On the flip side, if your opponent is about to finish the game with a win or is very likely to on their next turn, I would consider it polite to allow them to do so rather than immediately resign.

I consider it polite to immediately resign. Basically, if you don't, it's because you're hoping that your opponent somehow doesn't see the forced win (which is fine, but not particularly polite), or it's because you're not paying enough attention yourself to see that the opponent has the forced win (which is fine, but not particularly polite), or it's because you're wasting everyone's time (which is rude).

…Or because you understand that some people think it's fun to actually get to run past the finish line to make the win.

That's the thing, I don't understand why anyone would think it's fun to click on buttons with no purpose.

Imagine there's a trebuchet-building contest.  It's down to you and one other contestant, and right before you're actually tested on how far your trebuchets can shoot and how much damage they can do, your opponent just says "Ah, fuck it, yours is better than mine, just take the damn prize."  You've won, but it's rather disappointing.  Even if your winning is a foregone conclusion, you still want to shoot the trebuchet.
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Re: At what point should you resign?
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2015, 11:51:50 pm »
+4

Imagine there's a trebuchet-building contest.  It's down to you and one other contestant, and right before you're actually tested on how far your trebuchets can shoot and how much damage they can do, your opponent just says "Ah, fuck it, yours is better than mine, just take the damn prize."  You've won, but it's rather disappointing.  Even if your winning is a foregone conclusion, you still want to shoot the trebuchet.

This is the perfect analogy, because it works the other way too.
Sometimes I'm not resigning because I'm enjoying watching you shoot your trebuchet, even though I've barely managed to cobble together a rubber-band catapult.
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Awaclus

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Re: At what point should you resign?
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2015, 12:35:11 am »
+1

On the flip side, if your opponent is about to finish the game with a win or is very likely to on their next turn, I would consider it polite to allow them to do so rather than immediately resign.

I consider it polite to immediately resign. Basically, if you don't, it's because you're hoping that your opponent somehow doesn't see the forced win (which is fine, but not particularly polite), or it's because you're not paying enough attention yourself to see that the opponent has the forced win (which is fine, but not particularly polite), or it's because you're wasting everyone's time (which is rude).

…Or because you understand that some people think it's fun to actually get to run past the finish line to make the win.

That's the thing, I don't understand why anyone would think it's fun to click on buttons with no purpose.

I think ever saying that it's rude to not resign is completely uncool.
Different people want different things.
Just because you want to hurry up and get on to the next game, doesn't mean your opponent does.

Isn't the purpose to have fun?
Is it only fun when you're winning?

Also, saying that it's impolite not to see when the game is immediately winnable is elitist boasting.
If your opponent isn't that good at tracking the game state, they are deliberately wasting your time?
Wow.

I didn't say half of those things.

It's fine to not resign if you think your opponent might misplay. It's fine to not resign if you haven't realized the game is already over. If you're sure your opponent has the win and that he is also aware of it, then the only thing you're accomplishing by not resigning is wasting everyone's time, and I don't see how it's uncool to say that wasting everyone's time is rude.

The purpose is to have fun. Trying to win is fun (regardless of the actual outcome of the game; although I can also understand the reasons why some people think winning is more fun than losing), that's why people play games. It's not fun when I can't try to win. I can't try to win when I've already won, so that's not fun, and I can't try to win when I've already lost, so that's not fun either.

I did not say that it's impolite to not see when the game is immediately winnable. Being able to see it has absolutely nothing to do with politeness, i.e. it is "fine, but not particularly polite". I most certainly did not say that not tracking the game state is deliberately wasting my time — I said that not tracking the game state can be one potential reason to not resign, and deliberately wasting my time is another, and they don't have anything to do with each other and that's why they are separate reasons.

Actually, I don't even think it's reasonable to demand that your opponent pays any attention to the game at all during your turn.

Imagine there's a trebuchet-building contest.  It's down to you and one other contestant, and right before you're actually tested on how far your trebuchets can shoot and how much damage they can do, your opponent just says "Ah, fuck it, yours is better than mine, just take the damn prize."  You've won, but it's rather disappointing.  Even if your winning is a foregone conclusion, you still want to shoot the trebuchet.

I've seen how many Provinces I can buy with $8 and one buy thousands of times. It's not particularly exciting.
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jaketheyak

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Re: At what point should you resign?
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2015, 12:49:37 am »
+1

I think something got a little lost in translation there, because to me saying "not particularly polite" is the same as saying "impolite".
If you meant that it has nothing to do with politeness, then I think we are largely in agreement.
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Re: At what point should you resign?
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2015, 01:32:31 am »
+2

Imagine there's a trebuchet-building contest.  It's down to you and one other contestant, and right before you're actually tested on how far your trebuchets can shoot and how much damage they can do, your opponent just says "Ah, fuck it, yours is better than mine, just take the damn prize."  You've won, but it's rather disappointing.  Even if your winning is a foregone conclusion, you still want to shoot the trebuchet.

I've seen how many Provinces I can buy with $8 and one buy thousands of times. It's not particularly exciting.

Sure, but maybe my opponent has an engine that's guaranteed to piledrive Colonies next turn and there's nothing I can do about it.  I could resign, but there's a decent chance that my opponent would like to play out that final turn.  It's exciting, all the moreso if he's not a veteran with thousands of gains games under his belt.  He still wants to shoot the trebuchet, and it's perfectly reasonable for me to let him.  Some would even see it as rude to deny him that chance.

Edit: minor typo that was still sort of appropriate. :P
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 03:41:41 am by eHalcyon »
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Re: At what point should you resign?
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2015, 02:04:43 am »
0

What about resigning in a multiplayer game?
Wouldn't that always be impolite
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Re: At what point should you resign?
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2015, 02:06:31 am »
0

What about resigning in a multiplayer game?
Wouldn't that always be impolite

Yes.
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