Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2  All

Author Topic: In which Sarah king's courts a golem  (Read 11341 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ehunt

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1528
  • Shuffle iT Username: ehunt
  • Respect: +1856
    • View Profile
In which Sarah king's courts a golem
« on: January 03, 2012, 12:08:19 am »
+2

Sarah is behind by just one point in a colony game, two piles are empty, and there's only one duchy left. This is good news for Sarah, because it's the beginning of her turn, and her hand (thanks to some Council Rooms) is

Platinum Platinum Platinum Platinum Platinum Platinum King's Court Golem.

There are just two cards in Sarah's deck, and no cards in her discard pile. Out of habit, she king's courts the golem. Some stuff happens, none of which requires anybody to make any choices. Now it's her buy phase, and no matter what she buys, the game will be over and she loses. What were the two cards? 
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9707
  • Respect: +10765
    • View Profile
Re: In which Sarah king's courts a golem
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2012, 12:58:15 am »
0

Golem found 2 Swindlers. First one hit Peddler, and Peddlers were gone so she had to give a Province. Second one found Colony, making her give the last Colony. Opponent is now up by 7, and game will end. She can buy Province but it's not enough. Or, maybe she just gave opponent last Province also!
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

DrHades

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 206
  • Respect: +79
    • View Profile
Re: In which Sarah king's courts a golem
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2012, 01:11:22 am »
0

I think the solution would have something to do with Transmute, but Transmute-Transmute would put Sarah to buying power 0 and give her 6 Transmutes - that means there still can be 2 in the pile, so it is not 100% that the game will end.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9707
  • Respect: +10765
    • View Profile
Re: In which Sarah king's courts a golem
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2012, 01:23:20 am »
0


I think the solution would have something to do with Transmute, but Transmute-Transmute would put Sarah to buying power 0 and give her 6 Transmutes - that means there still can be 2 in the pile, so it is not 100% that the game will end.
No, because the Transmutes would only get played once each.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

DrHades

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 206
  • Respect: +79
    • View Profile
Re: In which Sarah king's courts a golem
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2012, 01:35:42 am »
0


I think the solution would have something to do with Transmute, but Transmute-Transmute would put Sarah to buying power 0 and give her 6 Transmutes - that means there still can be 2 in the pile, so it is not 100% that the game will end.
No, because the Transmutes would only get played once each.
That is actoually not true! Golem will dig for actions for the first time. Find 2 Transmutes. Play them. Trash 2 Platinumes, gain 2 Transmutes. Golem will dig for actions for the second time. Find 2 Transmutes. Play them. Trash 2 Platinumes, gain 2 Transmutes. Golem will dig for actions for the third time. Find 2 Transmutes. Play them. Trash 2 Platinumes, gain 2 Transmutes.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9707
  • Respect: +10765
    • View Profile
Re: In which Sarah king's courts a golem
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2012, 01:42:12 am »
0


I think the solution would have something to do with Transmute, but Transmute-Transmute would put Sarah to buying power 0 and give her 6 Transmutes - that means there still can be 2 in the pile, so it is not 100% that the game will end.
No, because the Transmutes would only get played once each.
That is actoually not true! Golem will dig for actions for the first time. Find 2 Transmutes. Play them. Trash 2 Platinumes, gain 2 Transmutes. Golem will dig for actions for the second time. Find 2 Transmutes. Play them. Trash 2 Platinumes, gain 2 Transmutes. Golem will dig for actions for the third time. Find 2 Transmutes. Play them. Trash 2 Platinumes, gain 2 Transmutes.
My bad! Forgot that the Transmutes will also get you new Transmutes for the Platinum. If the the board state us such that there are between 4 and 6 Transmutes left, your solution works.  :)
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Titandrake

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2210
  • Respect: +2856
    • View Profile
Re: In which Sarah king's courts a golem
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2012, 01:45:45 am »
0

I suspect that solution is the only solution. In order to have there be no choices, the actions must be the same. No card forcibly removes 3 cards from the hand in one play, so the action must gain other actions to play. And in order for there to be no choice in what to gain, the action gained must be specified by the played card. I think Transmute is the only action that does that...
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

Mean Mr Mustard

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 452
  • First to 5000 Isotropic wins
  • Respect: +118
    • View Profile
Re: In which Sarah king's courts a golem
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2012, 02:15:22 am »
0

Tactician/Swindler?
Logged
Jake <a href=http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201203/17/game-20120317-030206-6456f97c.html>opening: opening: Silver / Jack of All Trades</a>
<b>IsoDom1 Winner:  shark_bait
IsoDom2 Winner: Rabid
Isodom3 Winner: Fabian</b>
Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalie ar Atanatári, Utúlie'n auré!

DStu

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2627
  • Respect: +1490
    • View Profile
Re: In which Sarah king's courts a golem
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2012, 02:19:45 am »
0

Tactician/Swindler?

... has a decision on which to play first.
Logged

Thisisnotasmile

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1493
  • Respect: +676
    • View Profile
Re: In which Sarah king's courts a golem
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2012, 03:53:54 am »
0

What I want to know is how the game got to this state in the first place!
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9707
  • Respect: +10765
    • View Profile
Re: In which Sarah king's courts a golem
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2012, 09:36:14 am »
0

I suspect that solution is the only solution. In order to have there be no choices, the actions must be the same. No card forcibly removes 3 cards from the hand in one play, so the action must gain other actions to play. And in order for there to be no choice in what to gain, the action gained must be specified by the played card. I think Transmute is the only action that does that...

I'm pretty sure my solution works as well, although I'm guessing it's not the one ehunt was thinking of, because the King's Court and the contents of Sarah's hand make no difference to my solution.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

DsnowMan

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 122
  • Respect: +26
    • View Profile
Re: In which Sarah king's courts a golem
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2012, 10:51:45 am »
0

What I want to know is how the game got to this state in the first place!

King's Court and Island has a funny way of making cards disappear from your deck
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9707
  • Respect: +10765
    • View Profile
Re: In which Sarah king's courts a golem
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2012, 10:58:32 am »
0

What I want to know is how the game got to this state in the first place!

King's Court and Island has a funny way of making cards disappear from your deck

Indeed. And since my solution requires 7 Colonies to have been bought already, while Sarah is only 1 point behind, KC + Island must have been used a lot!
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Thisisnotasmile

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1493
  • Respect: +676
    • View Profile
Re: In which Sarah king's courts a golem
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2012, 11:00:08 am »
0

Either that or Bishop is involved.
Logged

guided

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 940
  • Respect: +94
    • View Profile
Re: In which Sarah king's courts a golem
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2012, 11:57:17 am »
0

Both solutions (Swindler when it drains the last Province and last Colony, Transmute when it drains the Transmute pile) appear to be correct, though the latter is of course a little more satisfyingly clever and seems closer to what must have been intended given the original hand. Am I missing something?
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9707
  • Respect: +10765
    • View Profile
Re: In which Sarah king's courts a golem
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2012, 12:04:46 pm »
0

Both solutions (Swindler when it drains the last Province and last Colony, Transmute when it drains the Transmute pile) appear to be correct, though the latter is of course a little more satisfyingly clever and seems closer to what must have been intended given the original hand. Am I missing something?

Agreed. My solution, while it works, isn't nearly as clever. It probably came to my mind because twice recently I played a Swindler near the end only to have it hit Province and remove the final Province from the pile! >:(
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

ycz6

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 676
  • Respect: +412
    • View Profile
Re: In which Sarah king's courts a golem
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2012, 01:09:40 pm »
0

I think I can actually do it with only one Action, in a 2-player game:

The Action is a Swindler, which hits the opponent's Colony, emptying the Colony pile. There are 6 Embargo tokens on Province, 3 on Duchy, and 1 on Estate.
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3413
    • View Profile
Re: In which Sarah king's courts a golem
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2012, 01:29:37 pm »
0

Some rule-nitpicking here, but I assume Sarah isn't Possessed?
If she is, it would still be her turn (says so in the rules), but her turn is just played out by another player.

I don't like solutions that make extra assumptions (which aren't mentioned in the OP), but it seems the only way.

Hell, it could even be
1 Swindler: Swindling the opponent's $5 action card into a Duchy (action card stack was empty, no other $5's around) and his 8 Silk Roads hit another VP target, so this gains him 8 + 3 = 11 VP. Since Sarah was already 1 point behind, the best she can do with her 1 Buy is buying a Colony for "just" 10 VP, still 2 VP short of a win/tie.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9707
  • Respect: +10765
    • View Profile
Re: In which Sarah king's courts a golem
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2012, 01:36:05 pm »
0

Some rule-nitpicking here, but I assume Sarah isn't Possessed?
If she is, it would still be her turn (says so in the rules), but her turn is just played out by another player.

I don't like solutions that make extra assumptions (which aren't mentioned in the OP), but it seems the only way.

Hell, it could even be
1 Swindler: Swindling the opponent's $5 action card into a Duchy (action card stack was empty, no other $5's around) and his 8 Silk Roads hit another VP target, so this gains him 8 + 3 = 11 VP. Since Sarah was already 1 point behind, the best she can do with her 1 Buy is buying a Colony for "just" 10 VP, still 2 VP short of a win/tie.

I thought of Possession right away, but the puzzle does say that she played the King's Court "out of habit." This means that she's the one who chose to play it.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Captain_Frisk

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1257
  • Respect: +1263
    • View Profile
Re: In which Sarah king's courts a golem
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2012, 02:18:06 pm »
+1


The first solution I came up with does technically require a choice, but it isn't meaningful, so it didn't bother me.

The 2 cards are swindler, tactician. 

Tactician will eat all of those lovely platinums, and the swindler hits an opponents tactician - which is the only other $5 card, which is empty, as are council rooms (for whatever reason).  This forces the opponent to gain the final duchy, and the best that Sarah can buy is an estate.

Bonus points if the swindler destroyed a duchy (with tactician and council room piles empty), but Sarah still lost because she bought the estate to tie, but lost on turns because she is P1

A twist on Gendo's solution:
- double swindler hits double peddler with 2 provinces and 0 peddlers remaining, giving her opponent a 17 point lead and ending the game - and even buying a $34 colony doesn't fix it.

My favorite solution is the embargo one.

Logged
I support funsockets.... taking as much time as they need to get it right.

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9707
  • Respect: +10765
    • View Profile
Re: In which Sarah king's courts a golem
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2012, 03:36:22 pm »
0


The first solution I came up with does technically require a choice, but it isn't meaningful, so it didn't bother me.

The 2 cards are swindler, tactician. 

Tactician will eat all of those lovely platinums, and the swindler hits an opponents tactician - which is the only other $5 card, which is empty, as are council rooms (for whatever reason).  This forces the opponent to gain the final duchy, and the best that Sarah can buy is an estate.

Bonus points if the swindler destroyed a duchy (with tactician and council room piles empty), but Sarah still lost because she bought the estate to tie, but lost on turns because she is P1

A twist on Gendo's solution:
- double swindler hits double peddler with 2 provinces and 0 peddlers remaining, giving her opponent a 17 point lead and ending the game - and even buying a $34 colony doesn't fix it.

My favorite solution is the embargo one.



The Embargo solution has quite a few variants I think... You still need a Swindler or a Transmute, because those are the only things that can force the game to end.* Anyway, Swindler could hit just about any card at all, so long as the only legal replacement is the last card of a pile, it doesn't have to give the opponent points. Then, so long as there are 10 Embargo tokens on Colony, 8 on Province, 5 on Duchy, and 1 on Estate (quite possible with KC + Embargo!!), then Sarah is unable to buy anything that will net her any points, and she still loses by 1!

* I'm not counting Expand or Remodel, because although those could force the game to end, because they would allow Sarah to choose a Province or a Colony and win.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

ehunt

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1528
  • Shuffle iT Username: ehunt
  • Respect: +1856
    • View Profile
Re: In which Sarah king's courts a golem
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2012, 01:42:01 am »
+1

Thanks for thinking about this everyone! I had the transmute solution in mind, but of course the puzzle isn't "guess what I have on my mind" and I have enjoyed the alternate solutions. Text I should have added (but didn't think of until today!):
Ironically, if she had just played the golem without the King's Court, she could have won the game with a better score than merely buying the last duchy would have provided.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9707
  • Respect: +10765
    • View Profile
Re: In which Sarah king's courts a golem
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2012, 09:55:13 am »
0

Thanks for thinking about this everyone! I had the transmute solution in mind, but of course the puzzle isn't "guess what I have on my mind" and I have enjoyed the alternate solutions. Text I should have added (but didn't think of until today!):
Ironically, if she had just played the golem without the King's Court, she could have won the game with a better score than merely buying the last duchy would have provided.

I like the extra line... I think it makes it so that your solution is the only solution!
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

dghunter79

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 279
  • Respect: +320
    • View Profile
Re: In which Sarah king's courts a golem
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2012, 03:57:46 pm »
0


I thought of Possession right away, but the puzzle does say that she played the King's Court "out of habit." This means that she's the one who chose to play it.

Disagree.  Often when I play Possession I become aware of impulses and urges that I recognize are not my own.

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1468
  • Respect: +532
    • View Profile
Re: In which Sarah king's courts a golem
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2012, 02:34:13 pm »
0

Hell, it could even be
1 Swindler: Swindling the opponent's $5 action card into a Duchy (action card stack was empty, no other $5's around) and his 8 Silk Roads hit another VP target, so this gains him 8 + 3 = 11 VP. Since Sarah was already 1 point behind, the best she can do with her 1 Buy is buying a Colony for "just" 10 VP, still 2 VP short of a win/tie.

This solution doesn't actually work because we know Sarah has multiple buys because her hand drew those cards from multiple Council Room plays as stated in the original post.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 02:36:37 pm by Jorbles »
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  All
 

Page created in 0.282 seconds with 21 queries.