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[Tables]

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/19066311

Kingdom: Moat, Village, Feast, Smithy, Spy, Throne Room, Council Room, Laboratory, Library, Market

Technically, this topic falls outside the board rules since I'm not providing an isotropic log to the game (sorry about that), but it still seems like the best place to post it. Anyway the BGG thread should give context - TC was asking about if anything can beat BM + Council Room on this board. Looking at the engine components you have - Village, Smithy, Throne Room, Lab, Market, it really feels to me like you should be able to manage something better. You do lack any kind of trashing or sifting, but you have extra actions, buys and draw, which means you have most of what an engine should need.

I did make a suggestion on how an engine could be built in the thread, but it didn't seem to get much interest - one person tested it and said it wasn't very effective. I doubt what I suggested was optimal, but I would at least think it should have a reasonable chance of working, so perhaps it needs adjusting?

Am I wrong? Is this really just a big money board? Or how can the engine work if not?

[sudgy]

A big problem is that there's no trashing.  That could make things a lot harder.

Also, isn't BM+Smithy better than BM+Council Room?  That would beat BM + Council Room.

[dondon151]

With no trashing and poor payload, I wouldn't bet on the engine.

[Polk5440]

The other issue is that Market and Council Room are the only +buy cards. They are expensive. Throne Room - Feast helps ever so little.... So it will take longer to ramp up the engine because there is little ability to gain multiple pieces a turn early in the game. You can't even grab a free Spy or three to slow down the CR-money player some. Throw Workshop or Remodel and I would be happier going engine, but as it is, not so much.

[pubby]

Also, isn't BM+Smithy better than BM+Council Room?  That would beat BM + Council Room.

BM+Smithy has a better BM matchup than BM+Council Room.
BM+Council room has a better Engine matchup than BM+Smithy.

[drbobjack]

I attempted running the sim in the article mentioned. I agree in feeling the engine doesn't really work sans trashing, but I am not a super great player, so.

While normally BM-Smithy beats BM-Council Room (by a couple %), my expectation is that with two opponents the +buy from CR becomes more important and the amount you lose by giving your opponent an additional card decreases.