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Author Topic: Ironworks and Trader  (Read 7371 times)

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GendoIkari

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Ironworks and Trader
« on: April 28, 2015, 11:36:37 am »
0

Probably easy puzzle:

I play an Ironworks, and gain a Silver. I reveal Trader from my hand, to gain a Silver instead. My opponent accuses me of just wasting time. But I'm not. What legitimate reason could I have for doing this?
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Witherweaver

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Re: Ironworks and Trader
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2015, 11:39:13 am »
+1

Probably easy puzzle:

I play an Ironworks, and gain a Silver. I reveal Trader from my hand, to gain a Silver instead. My opponent accuses me of just wasting time. But I'm not. What legitimate reason could I have for doing this?

You don't get the +1 Coin from Ironworks, which you presumably don't want, I guess because you're going to play a Storyteller next and don't want to draw the extra card, for various reasons.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Ironworks and Trader
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2015, 11:48:08 am »
+1

Right. Before Adventures there was no reason at all, since the extra money could never hurt you. But you might not want to draw an extra card from Storyteller, either to avoid a reshuffle or because you want that last card for your next hand instead.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Ironworks and Trader
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2015, 11:50:08 am »
0

Right. Before Adventures there was no reason at all, since the extra money could never hurt you. But you might not want to draw an extra card from Storyteller, either to avoid a reshuffle or because you want that last card for your next hand instead.

Or you know it would be an Action drawn dead.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Ironworks and Trader
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2015, 11:51:32 am »
+3

We've always known extra card draw can hurt you, now extra coins can hurt you, and therefore with Diadem extra actions can hurt you. Now we just wait for the card that enables extra buys to hurt you.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Ironworks and Trader
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2015, 11:52:41 am »
+1

Right. Before Adventures there was no reason at all, since the extra money could never hurt you. But you might not want to draw an extra card from Storyteller, either to avoid a reshuffle or because you want that last card for your next hand instead.

Or you know it would be an Action drawn dead.

Storyteller's non-terminal. I guess you could plan to play terminal draw afterwards and you somehow know what your cards are that deep into your deck.

Also, it's bad to draw it dead because you then don't get it for your next hand.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Ironworks and Trader
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2015, 11:57:55 am »
0

We've always known extra card draw can hurt you, now extra coins can hurt you, and therefore with Diadem extra actions can hurt you. Now we just wait for the card that enables extra buys to hurt you.

I think I've seen fan cards that force you to use all your buys. But yeah, it is interesting that extra actions can hurt you now. Though unlike extra coin, I can't think of a situation like the OP where you can ever choose to get or not get an extra action without changing other factors.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Ironworks and Trader
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2015, 11:59:19 am »
+1

We've always known extra card draw can hurt you, now extra coins can hurt you, and therefore with Diadem extra actions can hurt you. Now we just wait for the card that enables extra buys to hurt you.

Dominion is enforcing efficiency more and more.  Exactly what I'd expect from a game lauded by the Germans.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Ironworks and Trader
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2015, 12:06:07 pm »
+1

We've always known extra card draw can hurt you, now extra coins can hurt you, and therefore with Diadem extra actions can hurt you. Now we just wait for the card that enables extra buys to hurt you.

I think I've seen fan cards that force you to use all your buys. But yeah, it is interesting that extra actions can hurt you now. Though unlike extra coin, I can't think of a situation like the OP where you can ever choose to get or not get an extra action without changing other factors.

You could know you have a Curse and an Action card 2nd and 3rd in your deck (and want to draw both), and choose the order to play Ironmonger and a cantrip.

Or, Throning 2 Action cards directly instead of Throning a Throne.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 05:14:28 pm by Jimmmmm »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Ironworks and Trader
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2015, 12:23:04 pm »
0

We've always known extra card draw can hurt you, now extra coins can hurt you, and therefore with Diadem extra actions can hurt you. Now we just wait for the card that enables extra buys to hurt you.

I think I've seen fan cards that force you to use all your buys. But yeah, it is interesting that extra actions can hurt you now. Though unlike extra coin, I can't think of a situation like the OP where you can ever choose to get or not get an extra action without changing other factors.

You could know you have a Curse and an Action card 2nd and 3rd in your deck (and want to draw both), and choose the order to play Ironmonger and a cantrip.

Or, Throning 2 Action card directly instead of Throning a Throne.

Man, I totally should have made the puzzle about having 2 Throne Rooms, 2 actions, and choosing to Throne them separately. Would have been an extra step to figure out.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Ironworks and Trader
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2015, 12:30:00 pm »
+1

Quick, delete this thread and make a new one.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Ironworks and Trader
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2015, 01:35:06 pm »
0

We've always known extra card draw can hurt you, now extra coins can hurt you, and therefore with Diadem extra actions can hurt you. Now we just wait for the card that enables extra buys to hurt you.

I think I've seen fan cards that force you to use all your buys. But yeah, it is interesting that extra actions can hurt you now. Though unlike extra coin, I can't think of a situation like the OP where you can ever choose to get or not get an extra action without changing other factors.

You could know you have a Curse and an Action card 2nd and 3rd in your deck (and want to draw both), and choose the order to play Ironmonger and a cantrip.

Or, Throning 2 Action card directly instead of Throning a Throne.

Man, I totally should have made the puzzle about having 2 Throne Rooms, 2 actions, and choosing to Throne them separately. Would have been an extra step to figure out.

There are other solutions to that though.  Throne a draw card.  You want to see what you draw before committing to the second throne.  Maybe there will be a new action you'll want to play first before throning something else.  Maybe you expect to draw KC and would prefer KC-TR instead of TR-KC, or likewise with Procession.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Ironworks and Trader
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2015, 02:44:26 pm »
0

We've always known extra card draw can hurt you, now extra coins can hurt you, and therefore with Diadem extra actions can hurt you. Now we just wait for the card that enables extra buys to hurt you.

I think I've seen fan cards that force you to use all your buys. But yeah, it is interesting that extra actions can hurt you now. Though unlike extra coin, I can't think of a situation like the OP where you can ever choose to get or not get an extra action without changing other factors.

You could know you have a Curse and an Action card 2nd and 3rd in your deck (and want to draw both), and choose the order to play Ironmonger and a cantrip.

Or, Throning 2 Action card directly instead of Throning a Throne.

Man, I totally should have made the puzzle about having 2 Throne Rooms, 2 actions, and choosing to Throne them separately. Would have been an extra step to figure out.

There are other solutions to that though.  Throne a draw card.  You want to see what you draw before committing to the second throne.  Maybe there will be a new action you'll want to play first before throning something else.  Maybe you expect to draw KC and would prefer KC-TR instead of TR-KC, or likewise with Procession.

I thought about that; it would just have to be specified that the cards don't draw. Or just call them 2 Candlestick Makers.
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GreyICE

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Re: Ironworks and Trader
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2015, 04:41:08 pm »
0

Right. Before Adventures there was no reason at all, since the extra money could never hurt you. But you might not want to draw an extra card from Storyteller, either to avoid a reshuffle or because you want that last card for your next hand instead.
I'd actually say that you have a Forager to power up is a fully legitimate reason, if you didn't need the extra +$1 immediately.  Also stopping the Rogue effect from triggering.

So there's two already~

-
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eHalcyon

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Re: Ironworks and Trader
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2015, 04:42:56 pm »
+1

Right. Before Adventures there was no reason at all, since the extra money could never hurt you. But you might not want to draw an extra card from Storyteller, either to avoid a reshuffle or because you want that last card for your next hand instead.
I'd actually say that you have a Forager to power up is a fully legitimate reason, if you didn't need the extra +$1 immediately.  Also stopping the Rogue effect from triggering.

So there's two already~

-

Revealing Trader does not trash the card you would have gained.  Trader/Ironworks doesn't help Forager or stop Rogue.
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GreyICE

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Re: Ironworks and Trader
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2015, 06:44:24 pm »
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Huh, was getting it confused with Watchtower then.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: Ironworks and Trader
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2015, 07:04:57 pm »
+3

Alternative solution: your blue dog was hungry and you didn't want to walk it yet.
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werothegreat

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Re: Ironworks and Trader
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2015, 07:39:38 pm »
0

Here's another: I play Explorer to gain a Silver to my hand, then reveal Trader to gain a Silver instead.  Why did I do that?
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Re: Ironworks and Trader
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2015, 07:44:21 pm »
0

Here's another: I play Explorer to gain a Silver to my hand, then reveal Trader to gain a Silver instead.  Why did I do that?

Menagerie, probably.
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pacovf

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Re: Ironworks and Trader
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2015, 07:44:37 pm »
0

Draw-to-X, empty hand and forced (treasure) trash from Golem or TR chain, KC-Poor House...
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 07:46:14 pm by pacovf »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Ironworks and Trader
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2015, 07:45:20 pm »
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These should just be in the Easy Puzzles thread.  Actually, I think the Explorer one already is. :P
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Ironworks and Trader
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2015, 07:45:37 pm »
0

Here's another: I play Explorer to gain a Silver to my hand, then reveal Trader to gain a Silver instead.  Why did I do that?

You're about to play a draw-to-x or Menagerie, you played Explorer to get it out of your hand, and you don't want the Silver in your hand either.

PPE ninja'd
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GendoIkari

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Re: Ironworks and Trader
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2015, 10:56:58 pm »
+1

These should just be in the Easy Puzzles thread.  Actually, I think the Explorer one already is. :P

I almost put the initial puzzle in the easy puzzles thread; but I though that this would go beyond just the puzzle in terms of discussing how it's cool that now with Adventures, extra money (and extra actions) can be bad.
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