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Author Topic: +Card token and when-you-play  (Read 75909 times)

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Dominionaer

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Re: +Card token and when-you-play
« Reply #125 on: May 03, 2015, 05:14:05 am »
0

I'm also guessing that if you Throne BoM, playing it first as a Feast and then as a Reserve card, it moves from the trash to your Tavern mat, but this doesn't count as "gaining," correct (even though it's yours again for purposes of Gardens/Vineyards)? 

For that matter, if you King's Court BoM, playing it as Mining Village, Guide, and Mining Village (choosing to trash Mining Village each time), do you get $4 (I'm guessing the second trashing counts because it's on your Tavern mat rather than in the trash, in contrast to Throning Mining Village where it's already in the trash on the second play)?

Is there a new ruling? AFAIK one can't do the above tricks (bolded by me): if BoM gets played multiple times, it gets played in the second (and third) play as the card choosen on the first play, regardless wether it is still in play or elsewhere.

Edit: And last time, i read about BoM played as Reserve, i got the impression, that it stays there for the rest of the game, because there it is not a Reserve anymore: It is only an other card as long as it stays in play.

Edit 2: OK, read the whole thread and i am astonished: there is new ruling. I am also astonished, how a thread about tokens timing got to BoM.
But I think the Kings Court example above does not produce 4$, because the BoM-MV did not get trashed in third play. Also the BoM does not leave trash in second play, because Reserves only moves from play to Tavern. Am i right?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2015, 05:52:12 am by Dominionaer »
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AJD

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Re: +Card token and when-you-play
« Reply #126 on: May 03, 2015, 10:29:01 am »
0

For that matter, if you King's Court BoM, playing it as Mining Village, Guide, and Mining Village (choosing to trash Mining Village each time), do you get $4 (I'm guessing the second trashing counts because it's on your Tavern mat rather than in the trash, in contrast to Throning Mining Village where it's already in the trash on the second play)?

I don't think there's an official ruling on this case, but I think that BoM will have lost track of itself, so playing it as a Reserve would fail to move it from the trash onto your Reserve mat.  This is so weird though.

Well, let's look at the lose-track rule again:

"In rare circumstances an effect may try to move a card that is not where that effect expects the card to be. In those cases the card does not move—the effect has "lost track" of the card. Losing track of a card prevents it from being moved, but does not stop anything else from happening.... Cards do not lose track of cards that they move, only cards that other cards move.... Things lose track of a card if something moves it, if it is the top card of a deck and gets covered up, or if it is the top card of a discard pile and gets covered up."

So, there are two possible questions here:

1. Has the card been "moved" at all? The second time your KC plays Band of Misfits, it's in the trash and tries to play itself as Guide and move itself to the Tavern mat. For it to fail to make it to the Tavern mat, something else has to have moved it. But the card is in the trash continuously from when you start playing it to when you try to move it to the Tavern mat—in fact, it's been in the trash for longer than it would have been in play if you just played it from hand. However, the card was moved to the trash at an earlier time, before you tried to play it as Guide. Does this count as having been moved, for the purposes of the lose-track rule? It is true that the card "is not where that effect expects the card to be", but Donald X. has told us that it's the last sentence, not the first sentence, that defines when the lose-track rule applies.

2. If the card is considered to have moved, what moved it? Cards don't lose track of things that they themselves move. So here we have a Band of Misfits in the trash that was moved there by a Mining Village… but they're both the same actual card. So do we consider the card to have moved itself (and so the lose-track rule doesn't apply)? Or do we consider it to have been moved by something else, because what moved it was a Mining Village and it's not that anymore?
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swedenman

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Re: +Card token and when-you-play
« Reply #127 on: May 03, 2015, 12:46:55 pm »
0

I think it makes more sense of have the BoM lose track of itself in that situation, but I think it's vague based on the current rules. Luckily there's no benefit to putting a BoM on your Tavern mat outside of edge cases (ie you don't want your opponent to Graverobber or Rogue the BoM out of the trash).
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enfynet

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Re: +Card token and when-you-play
« Reply #128 on: May 03, 2015, 01:06:18 pm »
0

I'd consider BoM moved by Mining Village.
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eHalcyon

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Re: +Card token and when-you-play
« Reply #129 on: May 03, 2015, 02:51:33 pm »
0

My reasoning is that Guide[BoM] expects to be in play after it's been played, so it tries to move itself from there.  I also don't think you should be able to move cards out of the trash unless explicitly allowed to.
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swedenman

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Re: +Card token and when-you-play
« Reply #130 on: May 03, 2015, 02:57:09 pm »
+1

Yeah, I believe it is correct that you cannot move BoM from the trash to the Tavern mat. I'm basing that on this post: http://boardgamegeek.com/article/6057349#6057349
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Donald X.

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Re: +Card token and when-you-play
« Reply #131 on: May 03, 2015, 03:14:39 pm »
+5

I'm guessing this applies to Reserve cards as well, since they remove themselves from play, correct?  I'm also guessing that if you Throne BoM, playing it first as a Feast and then as a Reserve card, it moves from the trash to your Tavern mat, but this doesn't count as "gaining," correct (even though it's yours again for purposes of Gardens/Vineyards)? 
Throne Room expects to find BoM in play, where Throne Room put it, and so can't move it into play from the trash.

BoM as Reserve card expects to see itself in play, because played cards are put into play. It didn't make it into play so it fails to move to the Tavern mat.

"Lose track" should list "failing to move" as a reason for losing track.

For that matter, if you King's Court BoM, playing it as Mining Village, Guide, and Mining Village (choosing to trash Mining Village each time), do you get $4 (I'm guessing the second trashing counts because it's on your Tavern mat rather than in the trash, in contrast to Throning Mining Village where it's already in the trash on the second play)?
It never makes it out of the trash, so you can't get $4..
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chipperMDW

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Re: +Card token and when-you-play
« Reply #132 on: May 03, 2015, 05:03:41 pm »
+2

When you play TR on a duration, TR is supposed to stay in play as long as it's still "doing something."  How does that work with these new rulings?

For example, if you play TR on BoM, choosing Fishing Village, then the second play will be of Fishing Village.  Does TR know that it indirectly "played" Fishing Village twice and needs to stay out?  Or does it just know it played a BoM and then played the same card that was somehow a Fishing Village the second time, and doesn't know it "doubled" a duration?

In the case TR and friends can somehow see through the BoM to see what ultimately gets played, what about this:  You KC a BoM, choosing Feast for the first play, so it'll be a BoM for the second and third plays.  Both those times, you choose it to be Fishing Village.  Does KC need to stay in play to mark that it "doubled" a Fishing Village?  Or is that just a coincidental doubling (you could have picked Fishing Village and Woodcutter, after all), so it gets discarded?
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swedenman

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Re: +Card token and when-you-play
« Reply #133 on: May 03, 2015, 06:55:37 pm »
0

When you play TR on a duration, TR is supposed to stay in play as long as it's still "doing something."  How does that work with these new rulings?

For example, if you play TR on BoM, choosing Fishing Village, then the second play will be of Fishing Village.  Does TR know that it indirectly "played" Fishing Village twice and needs to stay out?  Or does it just know it played a BoM and then played the same card that was somehow a Fishing Village the second time, and doesn't know it "doubled" a duration?

In the case TR and friends can somehow see through the BoM to see what ultimately gets played, what about this:  You KC a BoM, choosing Feast for the first play, so it'll be a BoM for the second and third plays.  Both those times, you choose it to be Fishing Village.  Does KC need to stay in play to mark that it "doubled" a Fishing Village?  Or is that just a coincidental doubling (you could have picked Fishing Village and Woodcutter, after all), so it gets discarded?

It would definitely stay in play in both cases. The KC case is weird, but multiple FVs are taking effect the next turn so you need to keep the KC out to track it.
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enfynet

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Re: +Card token and when-you-play
« Reply #134 on: May 03, 2015, 07:03:37 pm »
0

When you play TR on a duration, TR is supposed to stay in play as long as it's still "doing something."  How does that work with these new rulings?

For example, if you play TR on BoM, choosing Fishing Village, then the second play will be of Fishing Village.  Does TR know that it indirectly "played" Fishing Village twice and needs to stay out?  Or does it just know it played a BoM and then played the same card that was somehow a Fishing Village the second time, and doesn't know it "doubled" a duration?

In the case TR and friends can somehow see through the BoM to see what ultimately gets played, what about this:  You KC a BoM, choosing Feast for the first play, so it'll be a BoM for the second and third plays.  Both those times, you choose it to be Fishing Village.  Does KC need to stay in play to mark that it "doubled" a Fishing Village?  Or is that just a coincidental doubling (you could have picked Fishing Village and Woodcutter, after all), so it gets discarded?

It would definitely stay in play in both cases. The KC case is weird, but multiple FVs are taking effect the next turn so you need to keep the KC out to track it.
But you need to remember that the KC is only tracking 2 FV next turn.
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Erick648

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Re: +Card token and when-you-play
« Reply #135 on: May 03, 2015, 10:04:11 pm »
0

I'm guessing this applies to Reserve cards as well, since they remove themselves from play, correct?  I'm also guessing that if you Throne BoM, playing it first as a Feast and then as a Reserve card, it moves from the trash to your Tavern mat, but this doesn't count as "gaining," correct (even though it's yours again for purposes of Gardens/Vineyards)? 
BoM as Reserve card expects to see itself in play, because played cards are put into play. It didn't make it into play so it fails to move to the Tavern mat.

"Lose track" should list "failing to move" as a reason for losing track.
Ah, I didn't realize it could lose track of itself due to its own effect.  Now that I see the reasoning behind Mining Village (that cards can lose track of themselves due to being moved by their own effects, as long as its not the effect of the same play), it makes sense (I'd always assumed you didn't get $2 for the second Mining Village because you can't trash a card that's already in the trash).
« Last Edit: May 03, 2015, 10:05:37 pm by Erick648 »
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dane-m

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Re: +Card token and when-you-play
« Reply #136 on: May 04, 2015, 02:59:12 am »
+1

When you play TR on a duration, TR is supposed to stay in play as long as it's still "doing something."  How does that work with these new rulings?

For example, if you play TR on BoM, choosing Fishing Village, then the second play will be of Fishing Village.  Does TR know that it indirectly "played" Fishing Village twice and needs to stay out?  Or does it just know it played a BoM and then played the same card that was somehow a Fishing Village the second time, and doesn't know it "doubled" a duration?

In the case TR and friends can somehow see through the BoM to see what ultimately gets played, what about this:  You KC a BoM, choosing Feast for the first play, so it'll be a BoM for the second and third plays.  Both those times, you choose it to be Fishing Village.  Does KC need to stay in play to mark that it "doubled" a Fishing Village?  Or is that just a coincidental doubling (you could have picked Fishing Village and Woodcutter, after all), so it gets discarded?

It would definitely stay in play in both cases. The KC case is weird, but multiple FVs are taking effect the next turn so you need to keep the KC out to track it.
But you need to remember that the KC is only tracking 2 FV next turn.
In a sense it's even worse than that: you would need to remember that the KC is only tracking 2 invisible FV (the BoM card is of course in the trash).

Let's try a mixture of your first and second examples:
Play TR
TR plays BoM
BoM plays itself as Feast and so gets trashed
TR plays BoM
BoM plays itself as FV

Now what's supposed to happen?

Does it help to consider TR+Tactician?  We know (assuming my memory is correct) that TR is able to notice that only the first play of Tactician triggered the requirement for Tactician to stay out and that consequently TR knows its job is done and can be discarded from play.  Does that mean that in the above example TR can notice that there has been only one play of FV and that consequently TR's job is done and it can be discarded from play?  But if that were the case, it would still leave me unclear as to what should happen in your KC+BoM-Feast/BoM-FV/(BoM-)FV example.  Given that KC would notice that it's job wasn't done, it presumably couldn't be discarded from play, but as you say, it would be necessary to remember that it was only marking two FV effects, not three (as well as remembering that the invisible card is FV).
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Donald X.

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Re: +Card token and when-you-play
« Reply #137 on: May 04, 2015, 03:05:20 am »
+1

When you play TR on a duration, TR is supposed to stay in play as long as it's still "doing something."  How does that work with these new rulings?

For example, if you play TR on BoM, choosing Fishing Village, then the second play will be of Fishing Village.  Does TR know that it indirectly "played" Fishing Village twice and needs to stay out?  Or does it just know it played a BoM and then played the same card that was somehow a Fishing Village the second time, and doesn't know it "doubled" a duration?

In the case TR and friends can somehow see through the BoM to see what ultimately gets played, what about this:  You KC a BoM, choosing Feast for the first play, so it'll be a BoM for the second and third plays.  Both those times, you choose it to be Fishing Village.  Does KC need to stay in play to mark that it "doubled" a Fishing Village?  Or is that just a coincidental doubling (you could have picked Fishing Village and Woodcutter, after all), so it gets discarded?
Throne stays out if it directly played a duration card that's doing stuff on a future turn. It doesn't know about indirectly getting cards played, such as when you Throne Throne. That now includes Throne BoM, for that first play when it's not a duration card quite yet.

If you Throne BoM as Fishing Village, the 2nd time, Throne played Fishing Village, and that's doing stuff next turn, so Throne stays out.

If you KC BoM and the 2nd and 3rd times it's Fishing Village, those are doing stuff next turn so KC stays out. The tracking is poor here but the rules don't have a "how poor is the tracking" clause, they just leave out Thrones that directly played duration cards that have stuff left to do.
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Donald X.

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Re: +Card token and when-you-play
« Reply #138 on: May 04, 2015, 03:10:07 am »
0

I'm guessing this applies to Reserve cards as well, since they remove themselves from play, correct?  I'm also guessing that if you Throne BoM, playing it first as a Feast and then as a Reserve card, it moves from the trash to your Tavern mat, but this doesn't count as "gaining," correct (even though it's yours again for purposes of Gardens/Vineyards)? 
BoM as Reserve card expects to see itself in play, because played cards are put into play. It didn't make it into play so it fails to move to the Tavern mat.

"Lose track" should list "failing to move" as a reason for losing track.
Ah, I didn't realize it could lose track of itself due to its own effect.  Now that I see the reasoning behind Mining Village (that cards can lose track of themselves due to being moved by their own effects, as long as its not the effect of the same play), it makes sense (I'd always assumed you didn't get $2 for the second Mining Village because you can't trash a card that's already in the trash).
I'm not quite sure what you think so let's just be clear. When a card moves itself, the card expects that that worked, that it did move, wherever the card moved itself. So it doesn't lose track of itself there if the card does in fact move as expected (and this doesn't fall into another category where you lose track, such as covered up in a discard pile). It does lose track if the card did not move as expected.

With Throne / Mining Village with Mining Village trashed the first time, the "if you do" fails if you try to trash it the 2nd time. Throne Room fails to put the card into play due to losing track of it (it expected to find it in play), so it's not in play, so it was already in the trash, so you didn't trash it.
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Donald X.

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Re: +Card token and when-you-play
« Reply #139 on: May 04, 2015, 03:12:10 am »
+2

Let's try a mixture of your first and second examples:
Play TR
TR plays BoM
BoM plays itself as Feast and so gets trashed
TR plays BoM
BoM plays itself as FV

Now what's supposed to happen?
Throne Room did not play a duration card directly and so does not stay out (this is a change).
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Simon (DK)

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Re: +Card token and when-you-play
« Reply #140 on: May 04, 2015, 04:42:37 am »
+2

When you play TR on a duration, TR is supposed to stay in play as long as it's still "doing something."  How does that work with these new rulings?

For example, if you play TR on BoM, choosing Fishing Village, then the second play will be of Fishing Village.  Does TR know that it indirectly "played" Fishing Village twice and needs to stay out?  Or does it just know it played a BoM and then played the same card that was somehow a Fishing Village the second time, and doesn't know it "doubled" a duration?

In the case TR and friends can somehow see through the BoM to see what ultimately gets played, what about this:  You KC a BoM, choosing Feast for the first play, so it'll be a BoM for the second and third plays.  Both those times, you choose it to be Fishing Village.  Does KC need to stay in play to mark that it "doubled" a Fishing Village?  Or is that just a coincidental doubling (you could have picked Fishing Village and Woodcutter, after all), so it gets discarded?
Throne stays out if it directly played a duration card that's doing stuff on a future turn. It doesn't know about indirectly getting cards played, such as when you Throne Throne. That now includes Throne BoM, for that first play when it's not a duration card quite yet.

If you Throne BoM as Fishing Village, the 2nd time, Throne played Fishing Village, and that's doing stuff next turn, so Throne stays out.

If you KC BoM and the 2nd and 3rd times it's Fishing Village, those are doing stuff next turn so KC stays out. The tracking is poor here but the rules don't have a "how poor is the tracking" clause, they just leave out Thrones that directly played duration cards that have stuff left to do.

Doesn't KC in chipperMDWs example, on the 2nd and 3rd play, play BoM? And then BoM played itself as a duration card? So KC didn't directly play a duration card, and therefore doesn't stay out. Or what?
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Donald X.

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Re: +Card token and when-you-play
« Reply #141 on: May 04, 2015, 06:15:49 am »
+1

When you play TR on a duration, TR is supposed to stay in play as long as it's still "doing something."  How does that work with these new rulings?

For example, if you play TR on BoM, choosing Fishing Village, then the second play will be of Fishing Village.  Does TR know that it indirectly "played" Fishing Village twice and needs to stay out?  Or does it just know it played a BoM and then played the same card that was somehow a Fishing Village the second time, and doesn't know it "doubled" a duration?

In the case TR and friends can somehow see through the BoM to see what ultimately gets played, what about this:  You KC a BoM, choosing Feast for the first play, so it'll be a BoM for the second and third plays.  Both those times, you choose it to be Fishing Village.  Does KC need to stay in play to mark that it "doubled" a Fishing Village?  Or is that just a coincidental doubling (you could have picked Fishing Village and Woodcutter, after all), so it gets discarded?
Throne stays out if it directly played a duration card that's doing stuff on a future turn. It doesn't know about indirectly getting cards played, such as when you Throne Throne. That now includes Throne BoM, for that first play when it's not a duration card quite yet.

If you Throne BoM as Fishing Village, the 2nd time, Throne played Fishing Village, and that's doing stuff next turn, so Throne stays out.

If you KC BoM and the 2nd and 3rd times it's Fishing Village, those are doing stuff next turn so KC stays out. The tracking is poor here but the rules don't have a "how poor is the tracking" clause, they just leave out Thrones that directly played duration cards that have stuff left to do.

Doesn't KC in chipperMDWs example, on the 2nd and 3rd play, play BoM? And then BoM played itself as a duration card? So KC didn't directly play a duration card, and therefore doesn't stay out. Or what?
Yes, sorry. KC didn't play a duration card and so doesn't stay out.
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chipperMDW

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Re: +Card token and when-you-play
« Reply #142 on: May 04, 2015, 09:22:36 am »
+1

If you Throne BoM as Fishing Village, the 2nd time, Throne played Fishing Village, and that's doing stuff next turn, so Throne stays out.
Hmmm...  Is directly playing a duration just once enough to leave TR in play?  Like, normally, even if TR plays a duration twice and one play of the duration doesn't carry over to next turn (Tactician with no cards in hand, Haven with nothing to set aside, Gear setting nothing aside, etc.), TR doesn't stay out because it's not tracking any doubling, right?
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Re: +Card token and when-you-play
« Reply #143 on: May 04, 2015, 09:34:22 am »
0

When you play TR on a duration, TR is supposed to stay in play as long as it's still "doing something."  How does that work with these new rulings?

For example, if you play TR on BoM, choosing Fishing Village, then the second play will be of Fishing Village.  Does TR know that it indirectly "played" Fishing Village twice and needs to stay out?  Or does it just know it played a BoM and then played the same card that was somehow a Fishing Village the second time, and doesn't know it "doubled" a duration?

In the case TR and friends can somehow see through the BoM to see what ultimately gets played, what about this:  You KC a BoM, choosing Feast for the first play, so it'll be a BoM for the second and third plays.  Both those times, you choose it to be Fishing Village.  Does KC need to stay in play to mark that it "doubled" a Fishing Village?  Or is that just a coincidental doubling (you could have picked Fishing Village and Woodcutter, after all), so it gets discarded?
Throne stays out if it directly played a duration card that's doing stuff on a future turn. It doesn't know about indirectly getting cards played, such as when you Throne Throne. That now includes Throne BoM, for that first play when it's not a duration card quite yet.

If you Throne BoM as Fishing Village, the 2nd time, Throne played Fishing Village, and that's doing stuff next turn, so Throne stays out.

If you KC BoM and the 2nd and 3rd times it's Fishing Village, those are doing stuff next turn so KC stays out. The tracking is poor here but the rules don't have a "how poor is the tracking" clause, they just leave out Thrones that directly played duration cards that have stuff left to do.

Doesn't KC in chipperMDWs example, on the 2nd and 3rd play, play BoM? And then BoM played itself as a duration card? So KC didn't directly play a duration card, and therefore doesn't stay out. Or what?
Yes, sorry. KC didn't play a duration card and so doesn't stay out.

Is this true even if you don't do self-trashing shenanigans?  I play KC, I play BoM, I choose Amulet - does KC stay out?
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Re: +Card token and when-you-play
« Reply #144 on: May 04, 2015, 11:35:01 am »
+1

Is this true even if you don't do self-trashing shenanigans?  I play KC, I play BoM, I choose Amulet - does KC stay out?

I that case it's clear, the second and third time it was Amulet, not BoM, since it was in play. So KC stays out.

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Re: +Card token and when-you-play
« Reply #145 on: May 04, 2015, 12:29:11 pm »
+1

Yeah, this new ruling works for TR-BoM, but seems to create contradictions with previous rulings about TR-Tactician, TR-Haven and TR-Gear.

The intent for TR-BoM-FV is obviously to keep TR in play to track that FV was played twice. The problem is that FV was played once by BoM and once by TR. So the new ruling says that TR stays even if it played a Duration only once, as long as it played a Duration directly. But what then of TR-Tactician, or TR-Haven not setting aside a card the second time? TR played a Duration twice, but only one of those times was a future effect set up. So the old ruling is that TR doesn't stay. But by the new ruling it seems like it has to stay. An option is to change the old ruling. It doesn't seem to be stated in a rulebook.

But I think I have a way to make it work with both rulings. The rule for cards playing Durations would be like this:
If a card plays a Duration and thereby causes that Duration to set up its future effect an extra time that turn, keep that card in play.

TR-BoM-FV by this rule: TR plays BoM. BoM plays FV setting up a future effect. TR plays the same FV setting up a future effect again. So TR stays.
TR-Tact by this rule: TR plays Tact setting up a future effect, TR plays the same Tact not setting up a future effect. So TR doesn't stay.
KC-BoM-Feast/FV/FV by this rule: KC plays BoM. BoM plays Feast. KC plays BoM. BoM plays FV setting up a future effect. KC plays BoM. BoM plays FV setting up a future effect again. At no time did KC play FV, so it doesn't stay.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 01:45:50 pm by Jeebus »
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Donald X.

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Re: +Card token and when-you-play
« Reply #146 on: May 04, 2015, 03:38:40 pm »
+2

But I think I have a way to make it work with both rulings. The rule for cards playing Durations would be like this:
If a card plays a Duration and thereby causes that Duration to set up its future effect an extra time that turn, keep that card in play.
Seaside's rulebook says: "If you play or modify a Duration card with another card, that other card also stays in front of you until it's no longer doing anything."

We can then argue about what "it's no longer doing anything" means. But what you're saying is consistent with the rulebook.
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swedenman

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Re: +Card token and when-you-play
« Reply #147 on: May 04, 2015, 04:07:05 pm »
0

When you play TR on a duration, TR is supposed to stay in play as long as it's still "doing something."  How does that work with these new rulings?

For example, if you play TR on BoM, choosing Fishing Village, then the second play will be of Fishing Village.  Does TR know that it indirectly "played" Fishing Village twice and needs to stay out?  Or does it just know it played a BoM and then played the same card that was somehow a Fishing Village the second time, and doesn't know it "doubled" a duration?

In the case TR and friends can somehow see through the BoM to see what ultimately gets played, what about this:  You KC a BoM, choosing Feast for the first play, so it'll be a BoM for the second and third plays.  Both those times, you choose it to be Fishing Village.  Does KC need to stay in play to mark that it "doubled" a Fishing Village?  Or is that just a coincidental doubling (you could have picked Fishing Village and Woodcutter, after all), so it gets discarded?
Throne stays out if it directly played a duration card that's doing stuff on a future turn. It doesn't know about indirectly getting cards played, such as when you Throne Throne. That now includes Throne BoM, for that first play when it's not a duration card quite yet.

If you Throne BoM as Fishing Village, the 2nd time, Throne played Fishing Village, and that's doing stuff next turn, so Throne stays out.

If you KC BoM and the 2nd and 3rd times it's Fishing Village, those are doing stuff next turn so KC stays out. The tracking is poor here but the rules don't have a "how poor is the tracking" clause, they just leave out Thrones that directly played duration cards that have stuff left to do.

Doesn't KC in chipperMDWs example, on the 2nd and 3rd play, play BoM? And then BoM played itself as a duration card? So KC didn't directly play a duration card, and therefore doesn't stay out. Or what?
Yes, sorry. KC didn't play a duration card and so doesn't stay out.

Hm, this is surprising to me. So it doesn't matter if the TR or KC is actually doing something next turn, it just matters if it directly played a Duration card? I would think it would make more sense to have the TR or KC stay out as long as it results in setting up multiple effects for a future turn (as the KC is doing in chipperMDW's example).
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Donald X.

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Re: +Card token and when-you-play
« Reply #148 on: May 04, 2015, 04:38:46 pm »
0

Hm, this is surprising to me. So it doesn't matter if the TR or KC is actually doing something next turn, it just matters if it directly played a Duration card? I would think it would make more sense to have the TR or KC stay out as long as it results in setting up multiple effects for a future turn (as the KC is doing in chipperMDW's example).
It doesn't need to have set up multiple future effects, but it does need to have set up a future effect. If it hasn't (e.g. Throne Tactician) it doesn't stay out.
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chipperMDW

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Re: +Card token and when-you-play
« Reply #149 on: May 04, 2015, 10:49:40 pm »
0

It doesn't need to have set up multiple future effects, but it does need to have set up a future effect. If it hasn't (e.g. Throne Tactician) it doesn't stay out.
Given that TR-Tactician doesn't set up a future effect that keeps TR in play, what future effect does TR-BoM-FV set up to keep that TR in play?  In the first case, TR directly plays a "live" duration and a "dud" duration; in the second case, TR directly plays a BoM and a "live" duration.  Neither TR directly plays more than a single "live" duration, yet we're saying one TR stays out and one doesn't.

Unless we're going with the thing Jeebus suggested about TR being able to tell whether a duration card has been "used" before in a turn.  ('Cuz, depending how you define that, it may also have weird implications (that nobody will ever notice) with Processioning durations then Graverobbing them and playing them again with TR in the space of a turn.)
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