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[Schneau]

Here's another thing I don't think I've seen mentioned:

Get rid of Gokoins. Let us pay real money to buy the cards we want to buy, including promos. Cut out the fake middle currency. It's probably not on the minds of users here who bought the cards long ago, but with Adventures coming, I'm sure we'd all appreciate being able to just buy it instead of buying Gokoins first, leaving us with a few to spend on diddly squat.

[Witherweaver]

Here's another thing I don't think I've seen mentioned:

Get rid of Gokoins. Let us pay real money to buy the cards we want to buy, including promos. Cut out the fake middle currency. It's probably not on the minds of users here who bought the cards long ago, but with Adventures coming, I'm sure we'd all appreciate being able to just buy it instead of buying Gokoins first, leaving us with a few to spend on diddly squat.

I agree.  They seem very pointless.

[werothegreat]

Here's another thing I don't think I've seen mentioned:

Get rid of Gokoins. Let us pay real money to buy the cards we want to buy, including promos. Cut out the fake middle currency. It's probably not on the minds of users here who bought the cards long ago, but with Adventures coming, I'm sure we'd all appreciate being able to just buy it instead of buying Gokoins first, leaving us with a few to spend on diddly squat.

I agree.  They seem very pointless.

What would do wonders to earning the respect/trust of the community would be converting all current gokoins into normal money, which can then be applied to Adventures.

[-Stef-]

Here's another thing I don't think I've seen mentioned:

Get rid of Gokoins. Let us pay real money to buy the cards we want to buy, including promos. Cut out the fake middle currency. It's probably not on the minds of users here who bought the cards long ago, but with Adventures coming, I'm sure we'd all appreciate being able to just buy it instead of buying Gokoins first, leaving us with a few to spend on diddly squat.

I agree.  They seem very pointless.

What would do wonders to earning the respect/trust of the community would be converting all current gokoins into normal money, which can then be applied to Adventures.

Actually I don't believe in the current business model at all. I would much rather see a system a la World of Tanks where everybody gets a default account for free (=play with only base) and then you can buy days, weeks, months or years of a premium account (=play with all the cards) with increasing discounts if you commit to a longer period.

I don't think that model would actually be better for me, it just feels like it makes a lot more sense for Dominion. What we have now is based on Magic I suppose, but Magic is actually a collectable card game. Dominion is not. Goko should be really glad Donald made another expansion, or they would never have gotten any money from existing customers ever anymore.

In the short run, a business will usually be driven by where their money comes from. Changing into a business model where existing customers pay money (opposed to only new ones) would give them an incentive to make the existing users happy. I think that would be a very good thing in the long run for all parties involved.

[LastFootnote]

Actually I don't believe in the current business model at all. I would much rather see a system a la World of Tanks where everybody gets a default account for free (=play with only base) and then you can buy days, weeks, months or years of a premium account (=play with all the cards) with increasing discounts if you commit to a longer period.

I don't think that model would actually be better for me, it just feels like it makes a lot more sense for Dominion. What we have now is based on Magic I suppose, but Magic is actually a collectable card game. Dominion is not. Goko should be really glad Donald made another expansion, or they would never have gotten any money from existing customers ever anymore.

In the short run, a business will usually be driven by where their money comes from. Changing into a business model where existing customers pay money (opposed to only new ones) would give them an incentive to make the existing users happy. I think that would be a very good thing in the long run for all parties involved.

If they do move to a subscription-based model, it should be cheap. I'm talking $1 a month, if that. Dominion is a great game, but in terms of maintenance costs it's a far cry from e.g. World of Warcraft.

I'd prefer to see the current model stay in place, but with some other non-awful revenue streams. Tournaments with a $1 entrance fee; winner gets a promo (or even an expansion) as a prize. Even just a donation button would be good to have. "Help keep Dominion Online affordable!"

[werothegreat]

Actually I don't believe in the current business model at all. I would much rather see a system a la World of Tanks where everybody gets a default account for free (=play with only base) and then you can buy days, weeks, months or years of a premium account (=play with all the cards) with increasing discounts if you commit to a longer period.

I don't think that model would actually be better for me, it just feels like it makes a lot more sense for Dominion. What we have now is based on Magic I suppose, but Magic is actually a collectable card game. Dominion is not. Goko should be really glad Donald made another expansion, or they would never have gotten any money from existing customers ever anymore.

In the short run, a business will usually be driven by where their money comes from. Changing into a business model where existing customers pay money (opposed to only new ones) would give them an incentive to make the existing users happy. I think that would be a very good thing in the long run for all parties involved.

If they do move to a subscription-based model, it should be cheap. I'm talking $1 a month, if that. Dominion is a great game, but in terms of maintenance costs it's a far cry from e.g. World of Warcraft.

I'd prefer to see the current model stay in place, but with some other non-awful revenue streams. Tournaments with a $1 entrance fee; winner gets a promo (or even an expansion) as a prize. Even just a donation button would be good to have. "Help keep Dominion Online affordable!"

Think of it less like WoW, and more like Diablo III.  Blizzard is constantly adding stuff to the game, even without a monthly revenue stream.  Why?  New players.  Hell, Guild Wars is as complicated as WoW, and it doesn't do subscriptions either!

I'm all for paying for tournaments and things like that, but I would be firmly against a subscription fee.

[Witherweaver]

I'm not sure online Dominion can match the business model of Diablo III.  Diablo III has new skills, equipment, monsters, locations, etc. that can be released with patches, which can actually significantly effect game play.  (E.g., Wizard in the current patch (2.2) plays much much differently now that non-Firebird sets (specifically, Tal's) are viable, which wasn't much the case in previous versions.  So you almost have an entirely new class.)  So new content can draw new players.

I can't see online Dominion as being able to do that, since new content is by and large through new expansions.  Unless they have some major innovations around the Adventures (not the expansion, but the thing on the Goko page that we never click on) that could provide big draw.   

[popsofctown]

New content isn't really what draws new players, new content retains existing players.

[Witherweaver]

New content isn't really what draws new players, new content retains existing players.

Well, yes, but the retention of existing players can draw new players (through word-of-mouth, the draw of having a community to play with/against, etc.).

[werothegreat]

New content isn't really what draws new players, new content retains existing players.

Well, yes, but the retention of existing players can draw new players (through word-of-mouth, the draw of having a community to play with/against, etc.).

Bear in mind that it's been two years since an expansion has released, and if anything, the Dominion Online community has grown, despite Goko's shittiness.

[TheOthin]

It's worth bearing in mind that for all the people who already paid for the existing cards for apparently unlimited time, asking for anything more to keep that would be a disaster.

[Arctic Penguin]

Since we're talking about ways for Dominion Online to make money post new version and Adventures, I think I'd pay for some new themes, especially if there was a minimalist theme of some kind. Maybe with a simpler background and a cleaner display of useful information. I guess you could argue such a theme should just be free by default, but perhaps the current theme is more appealing to new players and that's what you want as a default. In any case, I'd be happy to pay for a new one, if it looked nice.

[Lord Humanton]

I think a subscription model would be a better model, especially as MF has to maintain a running system for thousands of paying customers who have never actually paid anything to MF; however, I think this is the reason it's not going to happen:

It's worth bearing in mind that for all the people who already paid for the existing cards for apparently unlimited time, asking for anything more to keep that would be a disaster.

[pst]

I think a subscription model would be a better model, especially as MF has to maintain a running system for thousands of paying customers who have never actually paid anything to MF; however, I think this is the reason it's not going to happen:

It's worth bearing in mind that for all the people who already paid for the existing cards for apparently unlimited time, asking for anything more to keep that would be a disaster.

But hopefully soon most customers will be newer customers. Why not start with subscriptions while still keeping those who already are lifetimers, but only sell Adventures as subscription?

[Donald X.]

I think a subscription model would be a better model, especially as MF has to maintain a running system for thousands of paying customers who have never actually paid anything to MF; however, I think this is the reason it's not going to happen:

It's worth bearing in mind that for all the people who already paid for the existing cards for apparently unlimited time, asking for anything more to keep that would be a disaster.

I don't follow. Obv. you can combine the concepts; people who paid already are in, new people can subscribe, and possibly can pay instead. If the game is sufficiently money-making to be worth the effort you're already putting into it, the number of existing people is dwarfed by the eventual number of people.

[Beyond Awesome]

I think a subscription model would be a better model, especially as MF has to maintain a running system for thousands of paying customers who have never actually paid anything to MF; however, I think this is the reason it's not going to happen:

It's worth bearing in mind that for all the people who already paid for the existing cards for apparently unlimited time, asking for anything more to keep that would be a disaster.

As a note, I am also willing to pay for the base card arts. I don't know how many people are, but I much rather my estates and copper have artwork.

I think pst might have it right, keep everyone who bought up to Guilds as having those cards free for life, but if they want Adventures, they have to join the subscription model. Keep base free for everyone and whatever expansions they already have, but if players want more expansions, then they have to go on the subscription model. It would have to be cheap, no more than what a current small expansion like guilds cost, $4 at most, and for some that might be pushing it. That comes out to almost $50 per year which actually really adds up.

Another thought, I think you guys should wait and see how well this performs on tablet and phones. I think there is a huge untapped potential market there. Who knows, I might be wrong, but maybe some good money can come from there with the current model.

Anyway, I want Dominion Online to be as successful as possible and for it to last as long as possible.

[TheOthin]

Isn't $50 about what it costs to permanently get all the sets so far?

[LastFootnote]

I think pst might have it right, keep everyone who bought up to Guilds as having those cards free for life, but if they want Adventures, they have to join the subscription model. Keep base free for everyone and whatever expansions they already have, but if players want more expansions, then they have to go on the subscription model. It would have to be cheap, no more than what a current small expansion like guilds cost, $4 at most, and for some that might be pushing it. That comes out to almost $50 per year which actually really adds up.

Another thought, I think you guys should wait and see how well this performs on tablet and phones. I think there is a huge untapped potential market there. Who knows, I might be wrong, but maybe some good money can come from there with the current model.

Anyway, I want Dominion Online to be as successful as possible and for it to last as long as possible.

I love Dominion, but I am not paying $4 per month. If it were a bunch of games, multiple of which I wanted to play, $4 might be reasonable. But I can get my Dominion fix with the physical sets. They're way better value than $4/month.

$1 per month? Now you're talking. I'd pay $1 per month in addition to buying the expansions at the current rates.

[SCSN]

I'd happily pay $5-$10/month for iso-level stability and speed. This means no freezes and crashes, a working rejoin function (not just reconnect), no trillion lobbies, functioning automatch, no drag and dropping to get stuff done, no pondering over which of 3 identical Coppers to trash, discard and topdeck with Lookout, etc.

If the new software resembles the current one, though, I'd barely want to play on it for free.

[sudgy]

I personally think that any kind of subscriptions system would make you lose a lot of customers.  Now, you might make more money, but you wouldn't have as happy of a fan base.  I'm still a student and don't really have a steady income, so I never buy subscription things ever.  I've bought the cards on goko, and if they switched it to subscription I would not buy it (except maybe years in the future when I'm actually just living a normal life).

[DavidTheDavid]

Here's another thing I don't think I've seen mentioned:

Get rid of Gokoins. Let us pay real money to buy the cards we want to buy, including promos. Cut out the fake middle currency. It's probably not on the minds of users here who bought the cards long ago, but with Adventures coming, I'm sure we'd all appreciate being able to just buy it instead of buying Gokoins first, leaving us with a few to spend on diddly squat.

I agree.  They seem very pointless.

You can expect the in-game currencies to be reworked.

Thanks for the complete list, Lord Humanton. Although I personally would like to see reconnect prioritized higher than automatch - am I the only one on this?

Keep in mind, his list was summarizing what he saw in this thread to that point, and prioritized based on what he made of the posts.

And speaking in general, fwiw, LordHumanton is the lead developer for this project, and he understands the game's complexity intimately, has deep knowledge of the online version, and will be central to its success. He's probably as excited as anyone to see the new version come to light (and apologies to LH if that's putting words in his mouth!    )  Edit: Okay, I would suppose that the game's creator, who frequents these boards, is pretty excited, too. 

[Beyond Awesome]

Anyway, just wanted to say I have given more thoughts to a payment system, and here is what I came up with.

For the long term stability of Dominion, I think subscription is the way to go. I doubt many more expansions will come after Adventures, and even if they do, those releases will be sporadic. At best, we are looking at one promo a year. So, unless you can continue bringing in new people for years to come, you guys won't make much off charging for new expansions.

So, what I do think is that when Adventures comes out, you guys should switch to a subscription service. No matter what, keep Base Dominion free. You want to attract new customers and keeping the base set free is the way to go. After that, allow people to keep whatever expansions they already bought, and if they ever cancel the unlimited subscription, they still have those expansions. I don't think this will be that big of deal. There are enough of us on here that want to play with Adventures, so we will switch over to the subscription service just to play withe new cards.

I also suggest offering a 30-Day free trial for the subscription service. 30-Day free trials usually do wonders for sales. Personally, I don't care either way, if the only way to play Adventures was to switch over to a subscription service, I would switch over regardless of a 30-Day trial or not.  However, not everyone would feel the same way as me. I also suggest offering an additional 30-Days for anyone who bought every expansion or who bought a set recently prior to the subscription switch over. This is not necessary, but a good gesture nonetheless.

As far as pricing, I think $1 is too low and $4 is too high. Dark Ages came out about 3 years ago. Over 3 years, $1 month comes out to $36, less than the cost of buying all the expansions. So, yah, I am not sure on that. However, $1 or rather .99 cents does have the benefit of being attractive to a lot of potential on the fence customers. So, maybe, you will get a lot of customers at that price point that it might be the way to go.

Regarding $4, one year comes out to $48 which is absurd. It is also half the cost of Netflix, and Dominion does not offer nearly half of what Netflix has to offer. Long story short, a lot of people will be scared away by a $4 price point.

$2 is probably the best price point. Although, as I said earlier $1 might give you a lot of customers. You can always start at $2 and lower the price if not enough people are converting. $2 comes out to $24 a year and $72 after three years. A bit more than buying all the expansions currently, but this price seems fair.

$3 is pretty close to $4, sort of like how it is in Dominion. We're looking at $36 a year or $108 after three years and that seems pretty pricey to me and probably a lot of other people.

So, long story short, $1 or $2 a month is probably the way to go. Let people keep their expansion purchases. Switch over to subscription when Adventures comes out. And, optional, but probably a good idea, offer a free trial for the unlimited expansion subscription service.

[enfynet]

$2/mo
$5/3mo
$9/6mo
$15/yr

[werothegreat]

Under this model, would free players still be able to play with a subscription player's expansion cards if they play a game together?

[enfynet]

Probably not. It feels like the Xbox Gold subscription.