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Author Topic: Is this balance-able?  (Read 4442 times)

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Tombolo

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Is this balance-able?
« on: April 18, 2015, 07:58:52 am »
+1

$6 Action
Do this as many times as you want: Trash a card from your hand.  If you do, +2 Cards.

I feel like it compares pretty well to Chapel and Altar, so 6 seems about right, but is the unlimited potential a bit much?  Does it being a late-game trasher offset the power level somewhat?  Would it be better off as a P-cost or Prize or Event or something?
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pacovf

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Re: Is this balance-able?
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2015, 08:29:09 am »
+1

Broken with Fortress... Could be alright as a Prize, I guess.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Is this balance-able?
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2015, 08:40:59 am »
+1

Fortress kills so many potential card ideas. Sigh…
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pacovf

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Re: Is this balance-able?
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2015, 08:48:19 am »
0

I mean, you could make it trash as many cards as you want at once, in which case Fortress doesn't break it.

You could also make it impossible (or very difficult) to have more than one in your deck, because then having both it and a Fortress in your starting hand is difficult, and doing it reliably would need a third card, and three card combos can be as nuts as you want. Prizes, one-shots with weird buy/gain requirements, maybe as an event...

Or you could make it set aside the cards, and then do whatever with them during cleanup (trash them, put them on top of your deck, etc).

Just because its interaction with Fortress is too powerful doesn't mean that you should drop the idea altogether.
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enfynet

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Re: Is this balance-able?
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2015, 10:49:24 am »
0

What about a reaction like MS?

Whenever you trash a card, you may reveal this. If you do, +2 Cards.


You could use a Chapel-like top half too. "Trash up to X cards from your hand."
« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 10:51:13 am by enfynet »
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popsofctown

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Re: Is this balance-able?
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2015, 10:52:02 am »
+1

Screw Fortress, fortress is a dumb card.
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enfynet

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Re: Is this balance-able?
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2015, 10:57:55 am »
0

Do this as many times as you want: Set aside a card from your hand. If you do, +2 Cards. At the start of clean-up, Trash any cards set aside this way.
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popsofctown

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Re: Is this balance-able?
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2015, 11:21:42 am »
0

That's not as much fun. 

It'd be literally better to change the text in OP to "non-Fortress card" because Fortress is a really dumb problematically designed card.  It's not like there are 9 cards just like it creating almost as much problem.  It's the only on-trash benefit that recurs on itself.
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pacovf

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Re: Is this balance-able?
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2015, 11:27:22 am »
0

I think if you are going to set aside the cards, it would be better to do something more interesting than trashing them later.

This reminds me a bit of my Furnace idea from a while back.

You could also force it to trash cards with different names, somehow. Maybe there even is some non-clunky way to do so.
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markusin

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Re: Is this balance-able?
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2015, 04:38:17 pm »
0

Maybe add a clause saying "if it is still in the trash, +2 cards". This still singles out Fortress, but doesn't mention Fortress by name, and works for any other cards with Fortress's on-trash effect if any others come into existence.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Is this balance-able?
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2015, 06:33:04 pm »
0

What about a reaction like MS?

Whenever you trash a card, you may reveal this. If you do, +2 Cards.


You could use a Chapel-like top half too. "Trash up to X cards from your hand."

Remember, you can reveal a reaction as many times as you want.  As worded, trashing any one card allows you to draw you deck.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Is this balance-able?
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2015, 09:34:10 pm »
0

"Trash a card from your hand.  If it cost $5 or more, +3 cards; otherwise, +1 card.  You may play this again." is the best I can come up with.  I think you can still draw your deck with Fortress if you put your card token on this card (you get it every time you play it right?) so if you don't like that you'd have to go back to the "Do this as many times as you like" wording.  Actually you'd probably need to do that anyway because you can generate unlimited money with the +$1 token.

I was toying with the idea of "You may spend $1 to play this again" and having it give a coin bonus for costing $5 or more (in addition to drawing), but I think that's starting to get away from the original idea, and I actually kind of like that idea for another card.  I might use that.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Is this balance-able?
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2015, 09:56:47 pm »
0

"Trash a card from your hand.  If it cost $5 or more, +3 cards; otherwise, +1 card.  You may play this again." is the best I can come up with.  I think you can still draw your deck with Fortress if you put your card token on this card (you get it every time you play it right?) so if you don't like that you'd have to go back to the "Do this as many times as you like" wording.  Actually you'd probably need to do that anyway because you can generate unlimited money with the +$1 token.

I was toying with the idea of "You may spend $1 to play this again" and having it give a coin bonus for costing $5 or more (in addition to drawing), but I think that's starting to get away from the original idea, and I actually kind of like that idea for another card.  I might use that.

You don't need the card token.  Trash Fortress, draw a card.  Trash Fortress again, draw a card.  You'll still draw your deck; you just need to trash Fortress twice as many times.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Is this balance-able?
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2015, 10:14:48 pm »
0

"Trash a card from your hand.  If it cost $5 or more, +3 cards; otherwise, +1 card.  You may play this again." is the best I can come up with.  I think you can still draw your deck with Fortress if you put your card token on this card (you get it every time you play it right?) so if you don't like that you'd have to go back to the "Do this as many times as you like" wording.  Actually you'd probably need to do that anyway because you can generate unlimited money with the +$1 token.

I was toying with the idea of "You may spend $1 to play this again" and having it give a coin bonus for costing $5 or more (in addition to drawing), but I think that's starting to get away from the original idea, and I actually kind of like that idea for another card.  I might use that.

You don't need the card token.  Trash Fortress, draw a card.  Trash Fortress again, draw a card.  You'll still draw your deck; you just need to trash Fortress twice as many times.

Oh right, so then it has to not give any bonus on cards that don't cost $5 or more.  That's what I was going to do at first but for some reason I thought it would still work at +1 card.
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Marcory

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Re: Is this balance-able?
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2015, 11:00:07 pm »
0

What about "Do this twice. Set aside a card from your hand. Draw a number of cards equal to half (rounded up) of the set-aside card's cost. During Cleanup, you may either trash each set-aside card or put it on top of your deck."

Advantages:
-gets rid of the Fortress problem
-makes this card useful when you're greening
-if you set aside a useful card (e.g Gold or a $5 Action), you can use it next turn.
-lessens the damage that greening does to your deck
-Has a pseudo-Courtyard effect

Disadvantages:
-If you set aside a Victory card, you have a dead card next hand
-If you don't need the Courtyard effect, you lose a good card this hand.
-Is it too similar to Apprentice/Salvager as a late-game trasher?
-Does it compare unfavorably to Embassy?

« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 11:02:42 pm by Marcory »
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Asper

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Re: Is this balance-able?
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2015, 12:04:42 pm »
+2

Hmm... It would work with Draw-To:

"Do this as many times as you want: Trash a card from your hand.  If you do, draw until you have 6 cards in hand."

You can still trash Fortress as often as you want, but hey, it gets you nowhere, and also it now Combos with Market Square. Not exactly the same card, because the first trash draws more and the others less, but i think it's still close.

---

Edit: I thought about this. Maybe just let it draw to 5 cards, that might be balanced at $5.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 01:31:27 pm by Asper »
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Witherweaver

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Re: Is this balance-able?
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2015, 12:12:27 pm »
+1

$6 Action
Do this as many times as you want: Trash a card from your hand.  If you do, +2 Cards.

I feel like it compares pretty well to Chapel and Altar, so 6 seems about right, but is the unlimited potential a bit much?  Does it being a late-game trasher offset the power level somewhat?  Would it be better off as a P-cost or Prize or Event or something?

Even without the Fortress thing, it seems a bit much.  With "lucky" enough draws, you can essentially clear your deck of all trash in one sweep.  I guess the only other such unlimited trasher is Forge, but that requires you to draw everything you need to trash first. 
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popsofctown

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Re: Is this balance-able?
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2015, 01:20:44 pm »
0

$6 Action
Do this as many times as you want: Trash a card from your hand.  If you do, +2 Cards.

I feel like it compares pretty well to Chapel and Altar, so 6 seems about right, but is the unlimited potential a bit much?  Does it being a late-game trasher offset the power level somewhat?  Would it be better off as a P-cost or Prize or Event or something?

Even without the Fortress thing, it seems a bit much.  With "lucky" enough draws, you can essentially clear your deck of all trash in one sweep.  I guess the only other such unlimited trasher is Forge, but that requires you to draw everything you need to trash first.
But Forge gains you a card.  Tradeoffs.

I think it works at 7$.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Is this balance-able?
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2015, 01:26:24 pm »
0

Well, this card, starting with one junk card in your hand and supposing there is another one in the remaining 5, lets you increase your handsize this turn.  (Play it, trash 2, draw 4, net +1 card.)  If there is more junk, from that point on you're getting two cards for trashing one, which is basically free handsize increase in the case when there is more junk.
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