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[-Stef-]

So far people have advocated "single elimination", "double elimination" and "swiss followed by knockout".

At this moment my personal preference is single elimination, ok with double, and I don't really like swiss (properties too similar to the league).
But if you have some good points in favor or against any of these structures, please post them here. Or maybe you want to suggest something else entirely - also fine.
I will try to convert them into a sensible voting options when the actual voting starts.

[liopoil]

I like double elimination. Everyone gets to play multiple matches, not that much extra work to set up (in my opinion), and only uses one round more than the minimum.

[Joseph2302]

I like double elimination. Everyone gets to play multiple matches, not that much extra work to set up (in my opinion), and only uses one round more than the minimum.

I agree. Think single-elimination is a bad idea, as half the players only get 1 match. Double elimination guarantees everyone 2 matches. Swiss style is okay too though IMO.

[dondon151]

I don't think that I'll plan on participating, but Titandrake brought up double elim bracket and I fully support that idea. There was also the suggestion of double elim into single elim, but I think single elim into double elim (for top 48 or so) is better.

[assemble_me]

I think swiss with knockout is fine if those swiss preliminary groups aren't that big (like three - four players), as it is a nice way to guarantee for everyone to play a couple of games.
The step from preliminary swiss to knockout could also be the point where you switch from best of six to best of eight (maybe not though if the groups are that small).
Setting up those swiss groups however seems much more complicated like simple double/single elimination (like, you probably don't want to have all the best players in a single swiss group?). That said, I'm fine with double elimination, too.

[Watno]

You obviously wouldn't have groups if you do Swiss.

[assemble_me]

Oh yeah, you're right, I mixed that up.
Well then a group phase with small groups of 3-4 players followed by single elimination knockout seems like a nice alternative to double elimination to me. Reasons pro and con as seen in my previous post .

[AdamH]

Maybe this is just me, but I've always associated the name of the tournament with the structure of the tournament:

GokoDom = swiss
F.DS Championship = elimination (single or double)
World Cup or League = groups

I don't necessarily think this should color the structure of this tournament that we're gonna do, but rather I think that if we decide on a certain format, then we should name the tournament appropriately. I said it at the start of this post, but I'll say it again just to make sure it's clear: this might be just me. But I guess if this post gets a million +1s then we'll know.

...and with that said, since we've had the League going on for a while and just had a World Cup, we've done a lot of group stuff recently, so I'd be more inclined to do something different just for the sake of being different. Once again, also just me.

[-Stef-]

...so I'd be more inclined to do something different just for the sake of being different...

I very much agree with this. The whole point of this tournament (or at least the entire reason I'm willing to organize it) is that currently the league is somewhat dominating the online dominion tournament scene and maybe there are players out there that do want to be in a tournament but don't like the league structure. So whatever this is going to be, it should not be similar to that.

[Polk5440]

At this moment my personal preference is single elimination, ok with double, and I don't really like swiss (properties too similar to the league).

This is my strong preference, as well.

Maybe this is just me, but I've always associated the name of the tournament with the structure of the tournament.

Not just you.

[2.71828.....]

Completely agree with Adam.

I prefer a single elimination.  Sure, some people will only play one round.  Sure, crazy stuff can happen and underdogs can win.  I think the important thing to remember is that the goal of this tournament is not to determine who the best dominion player is, but to determine an F.DS Championship winner.  Anyone can win a tournament.  And that is the point.  We have the leaderboard to determine who is the "best" at Dominion at any given time.  And we can even debate that all we want because I prefer this leaderboard over that one. 

I just think that a single elimination tournament would be a lot of fun and make a great tournament.

[dondon151]

I'd contend that even more "crazy stuff" happens in double elim brackets.

[Beyond Awesome]

I think Double Elimination works best. It gives someone a chance to make a come back or maybe someone just had a bad day.

[2.71828.....]

I think Double Elimination works best. It gives someone a chance to make a come back or maybe someone just had a bad day.

See, I just don't like the whole "give someone a second chance" thing in an elimination tournament.  I am not saying I don't like second chances, but I think that they belong in a more swiss-style tournament.  I think that for the elimination style we should do single elimination. 

Or maybe I am just heartless

[sudgy]

I like double elimination more just because you get to play more.  Maybe, if it isn't too weird, start with double elimination but then go into single later on?

[2.71828.....]

I like double elimination more just because you get to play more.  Maybe, if it isn't too weird, start with double elimination but then go into single later on?

See, the whole "you get to play more" thing just doesn't seem like a great argument for double elimination to me.  Sure, you are guaranteed to play more in the F.DS championships.  But I mean, if you want to be guaranteed to play plenty of games in a tournament, we have the league.  Or holding a tournament swiss-style will guarantee that you get to play more.  What we are talking about here is an elimination tournament.  And for an elimination tournament, I think players should be eliminated each round until you are left with a winner.  Not give everyone the chance to play more games. 

In my opinion, double elimination is merely an attempt to get a more "worthy" winner.  A good player can't get knocked out by having one bad match.  You need two bad matches.  But does this really work?  Or is this even what we are trying to measure?  Again, I do not believe a tournament like this should be all about the best player winning.  We have the league or swiss tournaments or following leaderboards that can create a better measure for that.  This is all about the excitement of winning each match and advancing to the next round and staying alive because you never know when you are going to get lucky and be that underdog who beats a higher ranking player in the 2nd round.  Being that "12-seed" who makes it to the final four.

[liopoil]

Note that the normal bracket would be just like the single elimination bracket, and the player who wins it is just one game away from winning overall. Only one person who loses ends up getting to play the player who won all of their games, and they have to win twice. What I'm saying is that it's just as likely to have an underdog make it to the end.

[Hugovj]

Okay, let's chime in on this.

I think single elimination is better. I think it's 'purer' in some sense. Maybe seed the top 8 (16/32, depending on the number of competitors) and draw the rest randomly. (Which is the tennis way of doing it.) Half the people won't play more than one match (probably including me), but I think this system has quite some advantages over double elimination.

Firstly, it's less complex. Honestly, double elimination was just a bit confusing for me (and possibly others). I had to look it up to understand how it works, and I think less confusion is better. Single elimination is way more straightforward.
Also, I think it won't make much of a difference, whether the 'losers' play one match or two. It's still less than in the league, so if I wanted assurance of playing multiple matches, I'll play there.

[mith]

Popping in to say that I am happy to help organize an optional double elimination bracket again if the consensus is single for the official tournament.

[dondon151]

There is nothing confusing about a double elim bracket. Smash does double elim as the default tournament structure and no one is confused by it.

[shark_bait]

In my opinion, this tournament is best served by having each match be a do or die situation.  The hype and excitement generated by single elimination make it my go to choice.  You have postulation about future heavyweight match ups, predictions for regions, rising jaguar stories, etc...

As others have stated, you have gokodom/dominion league whose structure encorporates more matches into determining the top players.

[Titandrake]

In my opinion, this tournament is best served by having each match be a do or die situation.  The hype and excitement generated by single elimination make it my go to choice.  You have postulation about future heavyweight match ups, predictions for regions, rising jaguar stories, etc...

As others have stated, you have gokodom/dominion league whose structure encorporates more matches into determining the top players.

I don't see how double elim makes anything you said be different. You still have predictions for both winners side and losers side. You still have stories of people going further in bracket than they should. Sure, an upset doesn't end in an elimination if you're on winners side. It still really, really hurts.

By nature, double elim is a compromise between single elim and swiss, and I prefer that compromise. Note that 50% of people get knocked out in single elim in first round, so all you know is that you're not in the top half. Whereas if you do double elim, you get a bit more granularity. 0-2 = bottom 25% instead. Of course by nature, if you want full granularity, you should be doing swiss, which is just not feasible. However, I think single elimination's granularity is excessively tight.

A tournament like this is by and large for the large population of average Dominion players looking to try their luck and see how they compare, not for the people who frequently post/browse these forums. In that respects, double elimination is a better choice - not everyone is looking for a consistent time commitment like the league, and certainly not everyone is going to expect they can win their first match with ease, but those people will still be interested to find out just how good they are at Dominion.

[Master88]

Hello! When this championship will start? What I need to participation? It's free or enter with money?

[AdamH]

Hello! When this championship will start? What I need to participation? It's free or enter with money?

It's unsure of when the tournament will start -- that remains to be voted on by the community. There will likely be a poll coming soon, but there's some discussion on it here for now.

What do you need to participate? Not much, really. I guess all you really need is an account on Goko, you don't even need any cards.

And there's no money required to enter. It's a free tournament -- granted, the only prize is bragging rights.

[Hugovj]

A tournament like this is by and large for the large population of average Dominion players looking to try their luck and see how they compare, not for the people who frequently post/browse these forums. In that respects, double elimination is a better choice - not everyone is looking for a consistent time commitment like the league, and certainly not everyone is going to expect they can win their first match with ease, but those people will still be interested to find out just how good they are at Dominion.

If they are, why don't we just organize a loser's bracket? With no possibility to still win the tournament, but you can figure out how good you are at Dominion, to be 'best of the rest'. I feel like that's more fair, somehow. I get that that is personal, but yeah.