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Author Topic: "Naming" a card  (Read 14599 times)

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AJD

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"Naming" a card
« on: April 13, 2015, 11:08:29 am »
+2

So when you name a card, you're not forced to name an actual card that's being used in the current game; this comes up, for example, when you play Mystic but and want to make sure you don't draw anything. You don't even have to name a card that could in principle be in your deck; you're free to say "the Knights randomizer" or "the Three of Clubs" or "Black Lotus" or whatever.

This has led to an assumption on these board that the instruction "name a card" is actually equivalent to "say some words", whether it's the name of a card or not—and if the words you say happen to be the name of a card, then you get the intended effect.

But with the introduction of Events, "name a card" can't just be "say some words", right?

If you play Contraband, and your opponent "names a card" by saying the word "Expedition", that doesn't actually block you from buying Expedition that turn, right? Because Expedition, the Event, isn't a card, and so your opponent hasn't actually succeeded in naming a card to block you from buying.

So I think, as a board, we need to revise our interpretation of what's covered by the instruction "name a card".
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GeoLib

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Re: "Naming" a card
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2015, 11:14:05 am »
+5

So when you name a card, you're not forced to name an actual card that's being used in the current game; this comes up, for example, when you play Mystic but and want to make sure you don't draw anything. You don't even have to name a card that could in principle be in your deck; you're free to say "the Knights randomizer" or "the Three of Clubs" or "Black Lotus" or whatever.

This has led to an assumption on these board that the instruction "name a card" is actually equivalent to "say some words", whether it's the name of a card or not—and if the words you say happen to be the name of a card, then you get the intended effect.

But with the introduction of Events, "name a card" can't just be "say some words", right?

If you play Contraband, and your opponent "names a card" by saying the word "Expedition", that doesn't actually block you from buying Expedition that turn, right? Because Expedition, the Event, isn't a card, and so your opponent hasn't actually succeeded in naming a card to block you from buying.

So I think, as a board, we need to revise our interpretation of what's covered by the instruction "name a card".

I don't think anything really needs to change.

Quote from: Contraband
Worth $3
+1 Buy
When you play this, the player to your left names a card. You can’t buy that card this turn.

Clearly this can only prevent you from buying cards, and since when you buy Expedition you don't buy a card, but rather an event (Donald made this clear somewhere in the events preview thread, I'm pretty sure) Contraband cannot possibly prevent you from buying it. Or perhaps I am misunderstanding what you think is the problem. I don't think Contraband is supposed to prevent you from buying events.
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Kirian

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Re: "Naming" a card
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2015, 11:32:19 am »
+6

I think it's pretty clear that the thing you name must be a card, even if that card isn't part of the game.  Since Expedition isn't a card, you can't name it.

Similarly, while you can name the Ace of Spades, or Black Lotus, or Caravanseray, or Chennai, or Power Plant #25, you cannot name the T Pentomino, or Tobacco Plantation, or Waterdeep Harbor, or Yahtzee, or N-34, none of which are cards.
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DG

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Re: "Naming" a card
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2015, 11:33:04 am »
+1

Contraband says "you cannot buy that card this turn". From reading the events preview, it seems to me that events are not cards, so there is no confusion.
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Kirian

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Re: "Naming" a card
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2015, 11:36:58 am »
+4

And in case of ambiguity, obviously something that is also a card should be valid.  Fireball is a third level spell but also a card, Ragnaros is both a raid boss and a card, Nolan Ryan is a baseball player and a card, and so forth.
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Re: "Naming" a card
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2015, 11:41:09 am »
0

And my post about ambiguity brings up a separate question:  If I have bought Inheritance and set my Estate token on a copy of Ironmonger, and I play Wishing Well, if I name Ironmonger, will I draw an Estate if it's the top card?  I suspect this has been answered elsewhere.
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Deadlock39

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Re: "Naming" a card
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2015, 11:43:38 am »
+3

I mean I think you could technically say that there is an "Expedition Card", and if it is named for Contraband, then it you can't buy that card this turn.  ...but you already can't buy that card, so it doesn't change anything.  The Expedition Card is just on the table to remind you that you can buy the Expedition Event this game.  No one can ever buy that card.  (Except for you, online or at your LGS when you pick up the Adventures expansion.)
« Last Edit: April 13, 2015, 11:47:08 am by Deadlock39 »
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WanderingWinder

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Re: "Naming" a card
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2015, 11:45:40 am »
+1

I think it's pretty clear that the thing you name must be a card, even if that card isn't part of the game.  Since Expedition isn't a card, you can't name it.

Similarly, while you can name the Ace of Spades, or Black Lotus, or Caravanseray, or Chennai, or Power Plant #25, you cannot name the T Pentomino, or Tobacco Plantation, or Waterdeep Harbor, or Yahtzee, or N-34, none of which are cards.

I am going to make cards with those names just because.

Obviously what you say doesn't matter if it isn't a card in the (supply/your deck/wherever the card needs to be)

Mic Qsenoch

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Re: "Naming" a card
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2015, 11:47:08 am »
+9

And my post about ambiguity brings up a separate question:  If I have bought Inheritance and set my Estate token on a copy of Ironmonger, and I play Wishing Well, if I name Ironmonger, will I draw an Estate if it's the top card?  I suspect this has been answered elsewhere.

No, the Estates get the type and abilities they don't get the name.
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Kirian

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Re: "Naming" a card
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2015, 11:47:35 am »
0

I think it's pretty clear that the thing you name must be a card, even if that card isn't part of the game.  Since Expedition isn't a card, you can't name it.

Similarly, while you can name the Ace of Spades, or Black Lotus, or Caravanseray, or Chennai, or Power Plant #25, you cannot name the T Pentomino, or Tobacco Plantation, or Waterdeep Harbor, or Yahtzee, or N-34, none of which are cards.

I am going to make cards with those names just because.

Obviously what you say doesn't matter if it isn't a card in the (supply/your deck/wherever the card needs to be)

Assignment: Create a game that actually uses Pentomino cards.
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Re: "Naming" a card
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2015, 11:49:44 am »
0

I mean I think you could technically say that there is an "Expedition Card", and if it is named for Contraband, then it you can't buy that card this turn.  ...but you already can't buy that card, so it doesn't change anything.  The Expedition Card is just on the table to remind you that you can buy the Expedition Event this game.  No one can ever buy that card.  (Except for you, online or at your LGS when you pick up the Adventures expansion.)

But Events are specifically called out as not cards, even though they are cards.  They're both cards and not cards.

Excellent.  If you're carrying Expedition you should be able to visit Marvin on the Heart of Gold and talk to him.
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Deadlock39

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Re: "Naming" a card
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2015, 11:54:25 am »
+1

Of course. In the context of the game there is not a card you can buy.  There probably isn't anything in the rules that even refers to them as cards in the context of the game.  I was just suggesting that is reasonable, outside the context of the game, to call that thing the "Expedition Card".  Naming it effects the Dominion game state the same way naming "Ace of Spades" does.

AJD

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Re: "Naming" a card
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2015, 12:01:48 pm »
0

Sure. I just figure it'd be confusing if we end up in a situation where
1) Player A plays Contraband (legal move)
2) Player B names Expedition (legal move)
3) Player A buys Expedition (legal move).

I would much rather tell new players "You can't name Events for Contraband" than "You can name Events for Contraband, but it won't stop your opponent from buying them."
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Watno

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Re: "Naming" a card
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2015, 12:03:29 pm »
0

But you can't name evens. You can only name cards that have the same name as the events.
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Deadlock39

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Re: "Naming" a card
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2015, 12:34:44 pm »
+8

For the sake of IRL play, I think you should say "You can't name Events for Contraband".

For the sake of technical rules pedantry (one of our favorite things here), all the things that were just discussed.

Rubby

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Re: "Naming" a card
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2015, 02:06:17 pm »
+6

My new house rule (inspired by AdamH) is that when you're told to name a card, you have to name it Kevin.
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Re: "Naming" a card
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2015, 02:13:37 pm »
+6

I get really upset on goko when i want to name Charizard and it forces me to name something on the board instead. Its like, thanks goko, now my wishing well is never going to draw charizard into my hand :/
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Kirian

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Re: "Naming" a card
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2015, 02:52:58 pm »
+5

I get really upset on goko when i want to name Charizard and it forces me to name something on the board instead. Its like, thanks goko, now my wishing well is never going to draw charizard into my hand :/

Goko will, however, let you name the Ace of Spades.
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Re: "Naming" a card
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2015, 02:58:27 pm »
0

How do you name ace of spades on goko?
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Kirian

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Re: "Naming" a card
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2015, 02:59:46 pm »
+1

How do you name ace of spades on goko?

When you go to the "all cards" button or whatever it is, called, it should be in there.  It used to be, at least.
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GendoIkari

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Re: "Naming" a card
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2015, 05:34:15 pm »
+4

I think it's pretty clear that the thing you name must be a card, even if that card isn't part of the game.  Since Expedition isn't a card, you can't name it.

Similarly, while you can name the Ace of Spades, or Black Lotus, or Caravanseray, or Chennai, or Power Plant #25, you cannot name the T Pentomino, or Tobacco Plantation, or Waterdeep Harbor, or Yahtzee, or N-34, none of which are cards.

I disagree. If Black Lotus is a card, then so is Expedition. Not the expedition from Dominion; that's not a card. But in the thousands of games with cards in them that exist, I'd be shocked if none of them have a card called "expedition". And if not, I'll write "expedition" on an index are right now, and now such a card exists.
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Re: "Naming" a card
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2015, 05:57:14 pm »
+4

I think it's pretty clear that the thing you name must be a card, even if that card isn't part of the game.  Since Expedition isn't a card, you can't name it.

Similarly, while you can name the Ace of Spades, or Black Lotus, or Caravanseray, or Chennai, or Power Plant #25, you cannot name the T Pentomino, or Tobacco Plantation, or Waterdeep Harbor, or Yahtzee, or N-34, none of which are cards.

I disagree. If Black Lotus is a card, then so is Expedition. Not the expedition from Dominion; that's not a card. But in the thousands of games with cards in them that exist, I'd be shocked if none of them have a card called "expedition". And if not, I'll write "expedition" on an index are right now, and now such a card exists.

Right. But luckily naming it doesn't prevent you from buying the Dominion event named Expedition, since it's not a card.
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Flip5ide

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Re: "Naming" a card
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2015, 06:18:50 am »
0

I think it's pretty clear that the thing you name must be a card, even if that card isn't part of the game.  Since Expedition isn't a card, you can't name it.

Similarly, while you can name the Ace of Spades, or Black Lotus, or Caravanseray, or Chennai, or Power Plant #25, you cannot name the T Pentomino, or Tobacco Plantation, or Waterdeep Harbor, or Yahtzee, or N-34, none of which are cards.

I disagree. If Black Lotus is a card, then so is Expedition. Not the expedition from Dominion; that's not a card. But in the thousands of games with cards in them that exist, I'd be shocked if none of them have a card called "expedition". And if not, I'll write "expedition" on an index are right now, and now such a card exists.

If you name a card, you are naming the card itself. You are not "saying the name of a card." Otherwise it would tell you to "say the name of a card."
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GendoIkari

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Re: "Naming" a card
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2015, 08:30:02 am »
0

I think it's pretty clear that the thing you name must be a card, even if that card isn't part of the game.  Since Expedition isn't a card, you can't name it.

Similarly, while you can name the Ace of Spades, or Black Lotus, or Caravanseray, or Chennai, or Power Plant #25, you cannot name the T Pentomino, or Tobacco Plantation, or Waterdeep Harbor, or Yahtzee, or N-34, none of which are cards.

I disagree. If Black Lotus is a card, then so is Expedition. Not the expedition from Dominion; that's not a card. But in the thousands of games with cards in them that exist, I'd be shocked if none of them have a card called "expedition". And if not, I'll write "expedition" on an index are right now, and now such a card exists.

If you name a card, you are naming the card itself. You are not "saying the name of a card." Otherwise it would tell you to "say the name of a card."

I don't see how these are different... you are allowed to name "Ace of Spades", which is selecting Ace of Spades as the forbidden card. In the same way, you can select any card in existence, which means that you can select "Expedition" from the whatever game happens to have a card with that name, or the game you created in your head on the spot if no such published game exists currently.
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Re: "Naming" a card
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2015, 11:05:02 am »
+1

The points is that naming that card from some other game doesn't affect your ability to do anything.
If my opponent names the Develop card from RFTG, that doesn't stop me from buying the Dominion card develop either.
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