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[h1402686]

Code: [Select]

Courtyard, Moat, Advisor, Caravan, Conspirator, Feast, Ironworks, Council Room, Journeyman, Treasury
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20150410/log.516cccebe4b082c74d79df9b.1428709884985.txt
* Also: how do I get my kingdom to show up graphically in my post?

I played a game against a Goko bot in which I tried to build an engine and the bot beat me with no Kingdom cards besides a single Council Room.

The ability to gain Caravans and Conspirator with Ironworks, and to perhaps have a Treasury hanging around to help me buy yet more pieces, seemed like it would be pretty powerful against BM+terminal draw. But it wasn't. I couldn't beat Council Room in Geronimoo's simulator. "Well, Council Room makes for very short games," I thought. So I tried my simulator bot against Smithy. No better.

If I let my bot buy Woodcutter (so it can get +Buy for $3 instead of from a Council Room for $5) I can get it to win, but not by that much. Warehouse or Cellar is a little better still. But is the engine really so weak that with the given board that it can't win?

Two other notes:

• I realize that Advisor is also an option on the board. I didn't pursue it during the game because I preferred Caravan. But perhaps that was a mistake. The simulator doesn't support Advisor.
• Perhaps also I should have snagged a Courtyard. The simulator doesn't benefit from Courtyard and doesn't seem to play it that well. For example, I've seen it put a Caravan on top of its deck when just playing the Caravan seems like the obvious route.

Here's my simulator code:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<playerCollection>
<player name="Ironworks/Caravan/Conspirator"
 author="Chadeos"
 description="">
 <type name="SingleCard"/>
 <type name="TwoPlayer"/>
 <type name="UserCreated"/>
 <type name="Bot"/>
 <type name="Province"/>
   <buy name="Province">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Conspirator"/>
         <operator type="greaterOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="3.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Duchy">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="5.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Estate">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Treasury">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Treasury"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="1.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Ironworks">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Ironworks"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Conspirator">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Conspirator"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="5.0"/>
      </condition>
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Conspirator"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Caravan"/>
         <extra_operation type="minus" attribute="2.0" />
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Caravan"/>
   <buy name="Conspirator"/>
   <buy name="Silver">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Silver"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Gold"/>
         <operator type="equalTo" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Treasury"/>
         <operator type="equalTo" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Ironworks"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
</player>

</playerCollection>

[brokenlasagna]

No trashing... no villages... no +buy outside of council room. I think council room / bm just beats any engine you can cobble together here... I mean maybe caravan / council room/ bm would be a little more consistent... maybe. You're spinning building this engine w/ no real consistent payload. I could be wrong, I'm terrible at engines. If there were a village at all I would have more faith.

[DG]

These ironworks decks can be a touch slow without trashing. There is no payload without +buy.

You can improve the script slightly by adding lines specifically for the ironworks, which is the only way you can gain cards in the action phase. If you've got 7 coins you can play the ironworks for a silver.

[swedenman]

Yeah, Council Room is generally a really powerful BM card, and too many key engine components are missing. Council Room BM doesn't really like any other actions, so I'm not sold on using Caravan for support, either. There might be something I'm not seeing, but Council Room BM looks best here.

[h1402686]

I suppose I also could have been more canny about controlling my reshuffles. There is probably a lot of opportunity with this deck to keep Caravans and Conspirators from missing reshuffles (though Caravan, being a Duration card, doesn't make this easy).

[DStu]

I also think the engine is difficult here for the mentioned reasons, but if I'm forced to play it I would like the Advisor better.  Point is that with Consp/Treasury, you play a cantrip engine that doesn't increase handsize.  And you don't have trashing, and 12+x stop cards in your deck that interupt the Cantrips (7 Copper, 3 Estates, 2 Ironworks, x Provinces).  1 Caravan increases your handsize by 1/2 (you can only play it every other turn at best), 1 Advisor by 2.  Without trashing, you need every bit of handsize you can get. You can gain the higher valued discarded cards by the Consp/Treasury.  This is of course still not optimal, but should work out better.

But the problems still remain, it's a kind of slow build up, and you don't have anything real to do with the engine you build.  But given a say Woodcutter on the board for at least double Provinces,  I would take maybe 2 Caravans for consitency and otherwise prefer the Advisor.

full disclosure: I've never played wth Advisor ...

[DStu]

because obvious:

[ehunt]

Man I would've bet money that Conspirator was better here. (Separately I would have thought that if the strategy was literally just Big Money + one draw card, that Journeyman would be better than Council Room as that one draw card).

I think there's a strong argument for a second ironworks. Open Silver/Ironworks. I also want a council room but only relatively late.

I like advisor better than caravan: no shuffle problem, and occasionally the opponent will drop the wrong thing (depending on whether they think you can activate your conspirators or not). Anyway I guess your simulation evidence just trumps all these guesses, though, unless the sim is playing the conspirator engine wrong.

[h1402686]

I also think the engine is difficult here for the mentioned reasons, but if I'm forced to play it I would like the Advisor better.  Point is that with Consp/Treasury, you play a cantrip engine that doesn't increase handsize.  And you don't have trashing, and 12+x stop cards in your deck that interupt the Cantrips (7 Copper, 3 Estates, 2 Ironworks, x Provinces).  1 Caravan increases your handsize by 1/2 (you can only play it every other turn at best), 1 Advisor by 2.  Without trashing, you need every bit of handsize you can get. You can gain the higher valued discarded cards by the Consp/Treasury.  This is of course still not optimal, but should work out better.

OTOH, Advisor wants trashing too. With a non-trimmed deck an opponent can stick you with Estates and Coppers. I tried playing against the computer and even though I'm gaining one or two spammable action cards a turn there's still enough junk to hurt the Advisors pretty badly even before I start greening.

[Rabid]

Cool board.
I just won twice with Ironworks Courtyard in to 2nd Ironworks, so that might be worth a try.
Playing turns and greening timing is tricky though. So will be hard to simulate.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20150411/log.505ef45ca2e6714a97eee20c.1428782454066.txt
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20150411/log.505ef45ca2e6714a97eee20c.1428782928016.txt

[dondon151]

I feel like Council Room BM should not buy Duchy over Gold until it has at least 4 Provinces. I also don't think that it should buy Province before its first Gold (which Lord Bottington did in both games).