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Author Topic: When do you stop buying (cheap) things?  (Read 4362 times)

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werothegreat

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When do you stop buying (cheap) things?
« on: April 10, 2015, 11:49:56 am »
+1

There've been a few games, usually sloggy ones, where you get quite a few turns in a row where you barely make $2 or $3, and while you really want a power $5 or a Gold, you're stuck thinking "Do I really want (another) Herbalist?  Will it make a difference if I do or don't get a Pearl Diver?  Should I just buy nothing?"  In those instances, is it usually better to just skip that hand, or pick up something cheap that you don't necessarily want in your deck?
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DG

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Re: When do you stop buying (cheap) things?
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2015, 12:14:46 pm »
+8

If it makes your deck worse, don't gain it, even if it is free. A lot of two cost cards are very available if you want them, but you generally don't want them or only want them in specific quantities or at specific times.
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dondon151

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Re: When do you stop buying (cheap) things?
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2015, 11:22:36 pm »
0

I stop buying cheap cards whenever I'd also stop buying expensive cards like Adventurer.
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Gherald

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Re: When do you stop buying (cheap) things?
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2015, 11:36:32 pm »
+4

The harder question than not overgaining costs is: When to stop buying silvers when you have an extra and a buy?

When does your deck stop benefitting from adding more silvers, and when is it just a wash either way?  It's complicated to figure out - or at least I find it to be so.

A little mental framing I've sometimes found helpful is:  Imagine your opponent just sent you a silver with Ambassador (or Embassy, or Jester). Would you be happy or annoyed when accepting that? If annoyed, well then of course you shouldn't be buying one just because you can
« Last Edit: April 10, 2015, 11:39:55 pm by Gherald »
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ehunt

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Re: When do you stop buying (cheap) things?
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2015, 05:26:53 am »
0

There've been a few games, usually sloggy ones, where you get quite a few turns in a row where you barely make $2 or $3, and while you really want a power $5 or a Gold, you're stuck thinking "Do I really want (another) Herbalist?  Will it make a difference if I do or don't get a Pearl Diver?  Should I just buy nothing?"  In those instances, is it usually better to just skip that hand, or pick up something cheap that you don't necessarily want in your deck?

It depends on the card, not on the cost. You probably don't want an herbalist at all. It's a terminal copper. I mean, it's got its places in the game, but it's a terminal copper, your default should be "don't buy this" when you see it on a board.

A pearl diver, or better, a hamlet, the only reasons not to buy it are
(1) interactions with discard attacks, that most good players seem not to worry too much about
and
(2) pile concerns.
In a slog, (2) can be a serious concern.
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Awaclus

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Re: When do you stop buying (cheap) things?
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2015, 05:36:36 am »
+1

It depends on the card, not on the cost. You probably don't want an herbalist at all. It's a terminal copper. I mean, it's got its places in the game, but it's a terminal copper, your default should be "don't buy this" when you see it on a board.

You want it when it's the only +buy on the board.
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c4master

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Re: When do you stop buying (cheap) things?
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2015, 06:00:51 am »
+1

It depends on the card, not on the cost. You probably don't want an herbalist at all. It's a terminal copper. I mean, it's got its places in the game, but it's a terminal copper, your default should be "don't buy this" when you see it on a board.

You want it when it's the only +buy on the board.

Still, the default is: don't buy it.

If you need it, get one or two, but not more than two. If you just want to pile out a cheap pile, you usually don't care too much, which card it is.
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BadAssMutha

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Re: When do you stop buying (cheap) things?
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2015, 06:23:41 am »
0

Quote
Quote from: ehunt on Today at 05:26:53 am
Quote
It depends on the card, not on the cost. You probably don't want an herbalist at all. It's a terminal copper. I mean, it's got its places in the game, but it's a terminal copper, your default should be "don't buy this" when you see it on a board.

You want it when it's the only +buy on the board.

I guess that's true, but if it's a game where you really can't afford anything better than a $2, why would you need the extra buys? And if it's some leftover change after a Province or double Province, you probably don't want to go mucking up your deck with a terminal copper.
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Asper

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Re: When do you stop buying (cheap) things?
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2015, 06:58:51 am »
0

I don't see which serious points could be made against cantrips besides drawing them dead, piling out and some very specific card interactions. Pearl Diver, Pawn and Hamlet can all be played as just an empty cantrip. Great Hall is the same, except you might mant to buy something better at that price point. Peddler too (thanks Storyteller, for adding edge cases where coins are a bad thing).

That said, drawing any action dead and piling out are serious concerns. Also some games might make you want an Estate instead ain the end game when you're sure you won't see it again either way. Just my two cents.

Edit: Oh, and they can reduce the probability of having a Reaction in your hand during another player's turn.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2015, 07:00:36 am by Asper »
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Awaclus

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Re: When do you stop buying (cheap) things?
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2015, 07:02:05 am »
0

Quote
Quote from: ehunt on Today at 05:26:53 am
Quote
It depends on the card, not on the cost. You probably don't want an herbalist at all. It's a terminal copper. I mean, it's got its places in the game, but it's a terminal copper, your default should be "don't buy this" when you see it on a board.

You want it when it's the only +buy on the board.

I guess that's true, but if it's a game where you really can't afford anything better than a $2, why would you need the extra buys? And if it's some leftover change after a Province or double Province, you probably don't want to go mucking up your deck with a terminal copper.

Sometimes your engine fizzles and you have a dud turn.
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dondon151

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Re: When do you stop buying (cheap) things?
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2015, 10:21:08 pm »
+2

I guess that's true, but if it's a game where you really can't afford anything better than a $2, why would you need the extra buys? And if it's some leftover change after a Province or double Province, you probably don't want to go mucking up your deck with a terminal copper.

Didn't Stef famously buy an Herbalist for $11 or something? +buy is important for engines.
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Gherald

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Re: When do you stop buying (cheap) things?
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2015, 10:59:31 pm »
+1

Sure, but both situations he was talking about -- can't afford anything over $2, and leftover change after victory cards -- are truly nothing like the situation of that Stef buy.
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Flip5ide

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Re: When do you stop buying (cheap) things?
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2015, 10:33:53 am »
+1

I don't see which serious points could be made against cantrips besides drawing them dead, piling out and some very specific card interactions. Pearl Diver, Pawn and Hamlet can all be played as just an empty cantrip. Great Hall is the same, except you might mant to buy something better at that price point. Peddler too (thanks Storyteller, for adding edge cases where coins are a bad thing).

That said, drawing any action dead and piling out are serious concerns. Also some games might make you want an Estate instead ain the end game when you're sure you won't see it again either way. Just my two cents.

Edit: Oh, and they can reduce the probability of having a Reaction in your hand during another player's turn.

You forgot to mention the fact that when you are discarding (to an attack) you would rather have in your hand the next card in your deck instead of a neutral +1 Action +1 Card so that you can make the right decision. about what to discard. Not an edge case, but a very common thing.
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Marcory

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Re: When do you stop buying (cheap) things?
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2015, 09:21:59 pm »
+1

I'm not Stef, but I once spent $24 on a Grand Market once when it was the only +buy. (It was so some kind of crazy KC engine so I hadn't had a chance to get one yet).
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