I
If you really want my opinion on the forum, here it is.
In your game with Tao Chen you disconnected in a game state that gives you about 2% chance to win.
First of all, his screen name is now hdu88 everywhere, so I would imagine he'd prefer if you called him that, but that's really an aside.
What actually happened is a matter of public knowledge. Anyone can go look at the stream. They don't have to take my word for it, they don't have to take your word for it. They can look themselves.
At this point the only reasonable thing to do is resign.
I actually think that's rather debatable, but not really a point I'm interested in debating here.
In the heat of the moment you overestimated your chances to 10%-20%. This can happen. If I disconnect on 10-20% I would still resign
This is just so clearly untrue. You can be behind this much turn 5, you wouldn't want to resign. There is so much game to play out! It's about playing the game, you need to be able to convert that advantage. I've definitely won games where I should have been further behind than this because my opponent screwed up. Is it fair to assume he will? Of course not. But it's not really fair to necessarily assume he won't.
but I can understand that maybe you want something that is slightly better then just resigning. Your opponent also clearly thought he was ahead
which isn't in dispute at any time, nor was it ever. Repeating it implies that I contested that, which I did not. This is slanderous by implication.
but you kept reciting points why you maybe weren't losing.
This is simply not true. This clearly, BLATANTLY false. Here's the transcript:
Wandering Winder: lost internet :(
hdu88: :(
hdu88: it feels like i had that game, but i'm not sure how many points you could gain per turn
Wandering Winder: not that many, but you still had some junk in your deck?
hdu88: i had a curse and a silver i think
hdu88: possibly a copper, i don't remember
Wandering Winder: 2 curses
Wandering Winder: 2 silvers
hdu88: ah
hdu88: yeah, not sure who would win then
Wandering Winder: I am probably losing, but I don't think it's totally certain
Wandering Winder: trying to check the log
Wandering Winder: thing is, I need you to stall out a turn
Wandering Winder: and then I think I have very good chances
Wandering Winder: you are a favorite to not stall
Wandering Winder: but it isn't impossible
hdu88: I actually have a decent chance of stalling given what I discarded
And it was at that point I stopped digging into the log and suggested a replay, given that he himself had claimed a decent chance of stalling. It was after checking the log later and seeing that this thought of his was actually wrong, and he very clearly wasn't stalling this turn, and very likely not stalling the next, that I just gave up the game. I think it's very clear here that I didn't keep reciting reasons why I didn't think I was losing. I in fact say that I am probably losing. I give
one reason I think I might not be absolutely dead lost (he has some junk) then clarify the facts as to the composition of his deck (since I had the log open by then and he presumably did not). And I give a reason why I am probably losing (I *need* him to stall), and claim that while it isn't impossible (this is true, though not to the extent I thought it was at the time, as I hadn't worked out what was left in his shuffle or even his hand yet), I also state very clearly that he is a favorite to not stall. I'm clearly not trying to claim I am not in a bad spot, only that I am not dead lost, not as lost as I would be to resign. Since I wouldn't resign that game, I think it is rather brutish to try to force me into resigning it - yet if he felt certain enough, I probably would have (to avoid the hassle if anything). Certainly it didn't actually take much more time at the log for me to come to that conclusion hey.
In doing so you ignored the opinion of all the players in the chat.
Of course I did! This is not a match between me, hdu88, and the players in my chat. Those players are not involved. Their opinions are entirely irrelevant. They do not know how we would play. And they aren't involved in the match - they have no say. Perhaps the bigger point is that YOU WERE THE ONLY PLAYER IN MY CHAT WHO OFFERED AN OPINION DURING THIS PERIOD (yes, Mic offered one later, but by then I had already minimized chat and moved on), so essentially you are saying "BUT YOU IGNORED MY OPINION HERE". Yes, yes I did. You aren't the center of the universe.
Then you suggested replaying this game, thus giving yourself 50% chance to win it. This I considered and still do consider very unsportsmanlike.
I heartily disagree. I think the way to go really is to have the default position be to replay the game unless one player or other offered to resign (or there is a forced win). Obviously there is no perfect solution. Actually awarding the game, if not entirely won, to any player, definitively deprives the other of some win equity. Even me taking that 3-3 here is depriving my of my ~2%, and hey that's not nothing. It isn't worth the hassle, I agree. But in fact this is one of the most clear cases where I can just resign (and after realizing There is no rule to contradict it in league rules - I have read them, and I actually went and re-read them. There was nothing. In this case, I don't see how trying to come up with a solution with my opponent is unsportsmanlike - in fact, it seems the only option left open to me. Consulting with a third party when he was not would seem to me to be less fair. And I especially don't see how you think it unsportsmanlike when I am clearly not just trying to rip an advantage - it was pretty quickly after the match ended (less than 15 minutes between the post time and last edit of the OP here) that I asked to just lose the game. I actually don't think that is anything but sportsmanlike behaviour, and again, barring hdu88's objection, I actually think I would have been within my rights to claim 4-2. I don't want to do that, after coming to the conclusion that I was so close to dead lost, because I don't think it is actually fair to him. But in general, having the players agree must always be the best and most fair way of resolving anything, and other measures must ONLY be taken if there is unresolved disagreement between the two.
So much that it completely baffled me. The main reason I didn't want to drag this out on the forum is because I didn't want to publicly shame you for it. The fact that you suggested a 3-3 yourself a day later really helped.
Again, your facts are simply wrong here, unless you want to claim that it's somehow important that midnight Eastern Daylight time was crossed, despite neither relevant person living in that time zone (yet only the forum server). It was like 15 minutes after the match ended, not "a day later".
I don't know where you thought I made too much of a fuzz about this.
If by "fuzz" you mean "fuss", as I am assuming you do:
"this feels very wrong to me"
"I guess I'll think about it for a while before doing anywhting [sic]"
"I don't really feel like continuing to listen to him now so good night"
"I have a lot more respect for people who make mistakes and correct them then for those that "are never wrong"" (implying that I claim I am never wrong, which I have never done (okay, I have done so in very obvious jest before, usually after making a very clearly wrong statement); but indeed, you are the one who comes much closer to claiming your certitude and correctness)
"I was very pissed off about this entire affair"
^^Those
Sportsmanlike behavior and fun are both very important things to me for the league. I really don't like it when a public figure in the community breaks it this badly. Simply letting it pass unnoticed was never an option for me. Dragging it out like this is mostly on your own account.
Also, you clearly have misunderstood something about how the league is run. The league organization actually does get to decide.
If Adam, Andrew and I tomorrow decide that all players whose first name starts with an A or and S get 5 free points every season, then that's what it's going to be.
Yeah, I definitely resign from your league IMMEDIATELY. That's ridiculous.
And sure people can decide they don't like that rule and try to talk some sense into us. If someone has something sensible to suggest I usually do listen - at least I like to think so. But in the end I organize the league to the best of my ability, and then it's up to everybody else do decide if they want to be part of it.
The big point here is that none of that stuff is in the rules. Indeed, there's nothing to say that you three have any special power at all, except to make and edit posts, and even that isn't really written anywhere. The league started with a discussion of rules with voting on key issues. I guess after that you just preferred to rule by fiat.
I don't like rule by fiat.
If you're wondering, yes, this is the cleaned up version. I could have said many more unkind things very easily.
(Edited to clean-up a mis-matched quote block issue)
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Topic: WW disconnecting (Read 6007 times)