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Author Topic: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)  (Read 258152 times)

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Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #450 on: June 13, 2015, 02:11:28 pm »

I'm going to be out of town until the 18th, so I won't be able to contribute much (I'm going to be in the woods). I've been talking with hockey, though, so he'll say anything huge I wanted to get out.

As for now vote: Mail-mi. I'd rather lunch here than Awaclus, at least for today.
What have I done other than be wrong on theory stuff?

I'm overall just getting a scummy feeling from you, apart from theory. I can't really explain in detail. Your vote choices have been fishy to me, and I don't really believe your flavor claim.
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Witherweaver

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #451 on: June 13, 2015, 02:16:06 pm »

I don't really like Silverspawn here, particularly the ADK thing.  He seems to be coming to the defense of the "easy" wagons and pursuing unpopular ones.  It's not that it's particular scummy in and of itself, but I'm starting to think that it may be intentionally avoiding the scumminess of sheeping (a la Mail-Mi/Egor) and going far in the opposite direction. 

It's sort of like he's active but not doing anything that really makes a difference.
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mail-mi

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #452 on: June 13, 2015, 04:44:06 pm »

I'm going to be out of town until the 18th, so I won't be able to contribute much (I'm going to be in the woods). I've been talking with hockey, though, so he'll say anything huge I wanted to get out.

As for now vote: Mail-mi. I'd rather lunch here than Awaclus, at least for today.
What have I done other than be wrong on theory stuff?

Well, I don't think you're doing much other than sheeping.

I haven't had time to do much else.
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

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EgorK

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #453 on: June 13, 2015, 05:37:42 pm »

Meh, let's go through player list or I'll forget everything

e - do not remember anything in particular
Hydrad - can't put anything here as well
Chairs - now, this is interesting. Role that shares result with target and has targetting restrictions. More active then usual. Pass for d1
IG - I don't like this all out attacks. They can be town or scum hunting for mislynch. Still not a D1 lynch
WW - active, but I do not remember anything interesting aside from last post about ss. Although it is late and I may just forgot something. Warrants reread
Silver - talks sense most of the time. Pass for D1

Will finish this tommorow,mto tired really
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #454 on: June 13, 2015, 09:45:28 pm »

Ok, I just reread the thread and not a whole lot stood out to me as making one person especially scummy over anyone else.  A lot of interactions, a lot of claims, but nothing that I could really feel good about building an amazing case around.

So, right now, we are at this crazy point in the game where we have votes on 8 different people.  8 people.  That is a lot.  We need to consolidate and create some wagons before we let this day slip away without too much useful information.

That being said, PoE:

First, I don't want to lynch anyone who has claimed things (or myself):
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Hydrad
chairs
EgorK
Ichimaru Gin
Witherweaver
silverspawn
ashersky
hockeysemlan
A Drowned Kernel
Awaclus
Lekkit
Delirious Deleuze
mail-mi

Except, you know, ADK's "full claim" is that now he is basically no longer a PR.
Here's the full claim, and now it might make more sense why I was willing to shoot randomly at the last second: I am Angel. I am a 1-shot Dayvig, but if I'm successfully protected from being killed at night, then I lose the Dayvig and it becomes a Vampire controlled Night Kill. Using it day one seemed like the best way from preventing scum from getting an extra kill, though it's unfortunate that it didn't work out.

I find that very suspect.  He really gets nothing else out of his PR except a 1-shot DayVig that could have turned into a scum kill?  Seriously?  I am putting him back on the list:

Hydrad
EgorK
Ichimaru Gin
Witherweaver
ashersky
A Drowned Kernel
Awaclus
Lekkit

Still a big list.  Lekkit hasn't played in a while, and so far has been fairly normal for what I remember from him, lets cross him off. 

Now, who do we have left

Hydrad - His initial thoughts on flavor claiming I think aren't the best.  I mean, all he says is that he doesn't care.  So his thoughts aren't bad in that I disagree with him, they are bad in that I can't disagree with him.  Non-committal, hedgy.  His thoughts on the dayvig are interesting.  He starts against it, but then changes his mind and is for it.  I usually think developing opinions and openly sharing your thoughts is a town characteristic, but I am not sold here.  His reasoning for being against it is that "scum can manipulate town" better D1.  Then he changes his mind because it will give us a "more meaningful D1."  That feels a lot like arguing for a D1 no-lynch because "we usually lynch town" but then realizing that the townie position is actually that we should lynch, even if we miss and hit town.  Thus the flip-flop.  The next strike against him is when he asks chairs if he should flavor claim if he feels like chairs is town.  It just feels very martyr-ish to me.  "Hey guys, I can take the bullet to help out chairs here.  No, really, its no problem, I think he is town."  I mean, that might be an exaggeration (ok, it is an exaggeration), but I don't get warm fuzzies there.

EgorK - Hasn't posted too much, but that is normal.  He doesn't feel off to me, so I am fine just letting things develop with him.  He does need to finish those reads tomorrow like he said.  (edit: after going through IG and looking at IG's case on him, I am leaning on the scummy side of null)

Ichimaru Gin - I kind of like his stance on flavor claiming.  Or rather, I don't like it, but I don't think scum would endorse the stance he takes.  The whole "I know nothing about flavor, let's do it" stance.  He then has a whole lot to say about Delirious Deleuze.  He even gives chairs a D1 pass for voting DD. But in the end he comes around and loses his scumread on DD.  Ichi has fights with people, happens.  I didn't see anything too scummy about it from his angle.  He then switches up and goes after EgorK a bit, which is where he is right now.  Not lynching IG today.  He fights, has arguments, and its all good.  What he is doing though is finding people who he thinks are scum and pursues them until they are lynched or he is (or he changes his mind).  I think it is extremely townie that he switched off DD before DD claimed masons with hockey.  And now he is on EgorK.  I think this is town!IG scumhunting.  Maybe not my style of scumhunting, but I don't think he is scummy for it.

Witherweaver - He has commented on almost everything.  But that is really all I get from him.  Comments.  Doubts scum!ADK would make his claim.  Claiming is more townie than scummy.  Encourages people to post more despite votes (I totally agree with him here, btw).  Ash "sounds like town."  Doesn't think chairs is scummy for asking what people think about claiming.  Generic anti-lurker post (with a prod).  "Scummy and null.  sweet."  Makes a friendly post to encourage chairs not to share any additional info about his role.  So yeah.  A whole lot of comments.  But really, I think this is just D1 WW staying active and participating.  Nothing scummy about what he posted.  But nothing especially townie.  I did think his developing read on DD was a townie post.  And his reads post is a useful one.  I mean, I wouldn't be sad if he got lynched, but don't think I will endorse it right now.

ashersky - He is more in favor of, and talks more about, the vig shot than anyone else.  I mean, that is his biggest push early, to make sure the shot happens.  He has also been consistently against mail-mi.  I loved his little "dark trench coat and a bowler hat" post.  And I mean, he actually builds a decent D1 case around him.  He also has a reads post, and another post with more random info.  Nothing too special.  I don't get any scum vibes from Ashersky's play at this point.

A Drowned Kernel - Ok.  So we all know about ADK.  The day-vig.  I know I said I was crossing off people who claimed, but I just really, really don't like his "fullclaim."  I mean, is that it?  He is very careful to keep us happy by making a show of including us in the process and everything, then goes out and shoots the person he wanted to.  His comments on flavor claiming feel a bit off to me as well.  Especially the "presumably scum has fakeclaims" part feels forced.  He defends DD a bit, which is fine.  I forget who made the point, but his flavor claim as Angel does seem hard to fake, but I don't know enough bout flavor to just write someone off because of a flavor name.  Basically, all the good feelings I used to have about ADK are gone, replaced by icky, gooey feelings that everything is not as he says it is. 

Awaclus - The currently most popular wagon.  He is anti-claiming and was pro-vigging.  Not very active early.  Then he got himself in trouble with this post.  The Post He Refused To Share His Thoughts.  He follows it up with another post explaining why he doesn't feel the need to share his thoughts.  Then an extremely meta-aware post.  I mean, this post almost sounds like he is making fun of his meta.  He also briefly mentions how much EgorK lurks.  I don't know.  I don't buy scum!awaclus doing this.  He feels genuine to me.  I mean, would I lynch him if we needed to?  Yes.  Do I think we need to right now? no.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #455 on: June 13, 2015, 09:47:54 pm »

So then to narrow down from my last post, I think I want to lynch in  {Hydrad, EgorK, ADK} with a preference to vote: ADK right now.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #456 on: June 13, 2015, 09:55:40 pm »

I am super busy this weekend and probably won't be able to get to this tomorrow night. I'll try to do a super re-read then. Sorry!
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Hydrad

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #457 on: June 13, 2015, 10:09:58 pm »

wow nice work e!

also I don't even remember that I'm on mail-mi. must have been forever ago.

I'll go Vote: Egork

I think I don't want ADK to die right away. I guess the good part of lynching him is if we are wrong we just lose a VT but at the same time that almost makes him an easier target is my thinking.
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For anyone else, such a statement would be a scum tell.  For Hydrad, it's simply a tell that you're reading something from Hydrad.

silverspawn

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #458 on: June 13, 2015, 10:14:24 pm »

that is one excellent reread. and it makes all sense! let's be town buddies for this game... or at least for today.

totally agree with Awaclus, also with IG

WW too, though I'd give him a little bit more town cred

EgorK... well, there's nothing there. we could totally lynch him.

Hydrad is weird so no idea.

ADK is... dunno, I suggested to put him back in the lynch pool, but now that it's happening I'm scared. what if he's town? well, everyone can be town. Okay, this doesn't make a lot of sense... ugh, never mind.

why did you cross mail-mi off the list? just because he claimed this?

Basically all he did was argue against the shot and sheep a bunch of cases. that's kind of scummy for the lack of towniness.

silverspawn

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #459 on: June 13, 2015, 10:16:07 pm »

I think I don't want ADK to die right away. I guess the good part of lynching him is if we are wrong we just lose a VT

I didn't think about that, and it's actually a good point.

Okay, so I'm looking at Egork, ADK and mail-mi for now

vote: Egork to start things off

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #460 on: June 13, 2015, 10:39:12 pm »

why did you cross mail-mi off the list? just because he claimed this?

yeah.  I mean, I crossed you off the list.  And all you have said is you have a voting restriction.  I know, it is an arbitrary means to cross people off for PoE D1, but we do have a lot of people.  Plus, mail-mi's claim was a fairly soft investigative claim, and I think we can keep him around a bit more in case that is what it is.
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #461 on: June 13, 2015, 11:08:23 pm »

Cool. Nice reread from e--he's out of my lynch pool today for sure. And looks like the EgorK wagon is picking up!
That's good. What's not so good is people aren't really saying why they want to lynch him... For the record, he still hasn't really responded to my earlier posts.

I will probably do a big reads post at some point, but I'm pretty exhausted right now. There's a lot of stuff going on with getting ready for summer semester.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #462 on: June 14, 2015, 01:10:36 am »

Still LA, but can anyone sum up claims?

When do ss claim a voting restriction?

Don't like an ADK lynch today.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #463 on: June 14, 2015, 01:34:58 am »

Still LA, but can anyone sum up claims?

chairs - has a role that cares about flavor names
silverspawn - has a restricted amount of times he can vote in a day
hockeysemlan - mason with DD
A Drowned Kernel - 1-shot DayVig that can't do anything anymore
Delirious Deleuze - mason with hockey
mail-mi - messenger/oracle/something that is "unwise to claim this early"
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #464 on: June 14, 2015, 01:44:09 pm »

So then to narrow down from my last post, I think I want to lynch in  {Hydrad, EgorK, ADK} with a preference to vote: ADK right now.

I don't really buy any proposed scum narrative for ADK.  First, when does scum ever get a Dayvig shot?  And even so, why come out first thing Day 1 and claim?  I guess for town cred, but it seems an unlikely enough scenario that he shouldn't be high in the list.

Though, you have a point about that being a little minor to be all there is for his role.  He could also be town not disclosing everything.  Hydrad analysis looks sound, and I feel more or less the same about Egor; I can't tell with him.

IG I would put a little more null to possibly scummy.  I remember thinking that him backing away from DD could be a result of Ichi thinking he was looking worse from the argument, so he didn't want it to devolve into a DD vs. Ichi thing.  Though, if Egor flips scum we can pretty much guarantee Ichi isn't a partner based on their interactions. 

I like the analysis otherwise; seems townie. 

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EgorK

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #465 on: June 14, 2015, 05:43:27 pm »

For the record, he still hasn't really responded to my earlier posts.

For the record, I still have not got any questions from you
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #466 on: June 14, 2015, 05:50:21 pm »

Hockey and DD - I do not see any scum narrative until they live through at least day 3
Ash - does not feel like usual town ash, but I had not played for a while so his meta may have been changed
ADK - I stand by my earlier reads
Awaclus - I hate what he is doing, but as annoying as he is I don't want to lynch him D1
Lekkit - do no remember anything in particular, in for reread
Mail-mi - pushed for theoretically unsound decision and than kinda disappeared. Scummy still
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Witherweaver

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #467 on: June 14, 2015, 05:54:49 pm »

So who should we lynch today?
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Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #468 on: June 14, 2015, 07:31:19 pm »

I'm still in favor of a mail-mi lynch. My only qualm is that he could possibly give us assurance that chairs is town/can be confirmed town tomorrow after being target by chairs to show he really is Cordie. If he's scum, then he'd probably be lying about being Cordie and he wouldn't know what chairs' targeting did and thus would be forced to claim and then chairs could confirm/deny.

This works under the presumption that they're not on a team together, but I really don't think this is the case and have a town read on chairs.

Yet, this plan could easily fall through and I still feel mail-mi is scum, and so I would be in favor of his lynch today.
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Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #469 on: June 14, 2015, 07:32:07 pm »

Just thought I'd share that idea of possible info we could garner from chairs' PR role.

On he road, will be in the woods tomorrow-thursday
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #470 on: June 14, 2015, 07:34:11 pm »

Oh, I did realize that Cordelia makes sense.  The setup says something about dead players coming back to life, and my guess is that it's through some channeller/medium as a ghost or something.  (Maybe they'd be essentially revived as a treestump.)  I think Cordelia would be an appropriate flavor character for that.. she was the one that communicated with spirits and such, right?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #471 on: June 14, 2015, 07:34:37 pm »

Well, that doesn't say anything to alignment, though; could still be a scum character with that flavor/role.
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Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #472 on: June 14, 2015, 07:45:09 pm »

Well, that doesn't say anything to alignment, though; could still be a scum character with that flavor/role.

so, what do other people think about flavor claims?

Setup says
Quote from: setup
6. Flips, flavor and role names
Each role comes with a flavor name from either of the series "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Angel". It also comes with a role name that gives a short flavorful description of what the role does. These role names need not follow established terminology.
and
Quote from: setup
Flavor knowledge is not required (though helpful) to play the game.

to me, that sounds like scum!who!knows!the!flavor could gain information about which players are more likely to be powerful PR's. I don't think that's worth the risk.

I don't know how important chairs' role is though. If he thinks it's a big enough advantage, maybe we can do it.

It appears to have a little something to do with it, but regardless, I mail-no lied about his flavor name for any reason (e.x. He's spike or the master or something) then the targeting would fail and he wouldn't know what the power did and we'd also know, through a chairs confirmation, that he was lying about his flavor name, which I think only scum would do.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #473 on: June 14, 2015, 08:01:46 pm »

We aren't lynching mail-mi today.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #474 on: June 14, 2015, 08:06:13 pm »

We aren't lynching mail-mi today.

you said something like that earlier today. is that a claim?

you two are both in my rather small lynch pool, so you're going to have to justify that statement somehow
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