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Author Topic: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)  (Read 23044 times)

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Hydrad

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #100 on: June 10, 2015, 01:07:43 am »

but would it be stronger if we used it on a later day with more info?

If you think of it as just "we get an extra lynch", it isn't any strong or weaker depending on when we use it. And right away increases the chances that we'll get to use it at all.

right but usually day 1 scum can manipulate town much easier then other days i feel. So i think if we use it day 1 there is a higher chance our extra lynch hits town.
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ashersky

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #101 on: June 10, 2015, 01:31:07 am »

but would it be stronger if we used it on a later day with more info?

If you think of it as just "we get an extra lynch", it isn't any strong or weaker depending on when we use it. And right away increases the chances that we'll get to use it at all.

right but usually day 1 scum can manipulate town much easier then other days i feel. So i think if we use it day 1 there is a higher chance our extra lynch hits town.

If we knew how many scum there were, it would help in figuring this out.  But still, I don't think you are right.

In a 3 v 10 game, which is the f.ds norm, mafia is at its weakest on Day 1 in terms of wagon manipulation.  They're 3 of the 7 it takes to lynch.  On Day 2, if we mislynch and have a death, it's 6 to lynch and mafia is up to 50 percent.

I think the "extra" lynch coming on D1 is better, in a vacuum.

And again, it's a group decision, so it's not really a vig.  I think, given the claim, this is how we should use it.  Whether we use it on D1 or not, we'll see.  ADK can always make that call anyway.

The other way to use the dayvig is as a counterclaim cleaner -- that is, had he not claimed, and then later we had two people who were in opposition over a claim, ADK can just kill one to confirm the other.  That's off the table, as the power is out there.
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hockeysemlan

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #102 on: June 10, 2015, 03:30:38 am »

I disagree with the Day 1 shot and think that we should save it.

Because you are scum and are worried that he'll shoot you or your partners and you'd rather nightkill him to neutralize a town PR?

Or another reason?

dayvig vote mail-mi

This I sheep. We should shoot today, to dig out information is more valuable than keeping players alive. Sortof..

day-vig vote: mail-mi
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ashersky

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #103 on: June 10, 2015, 04:52:57 am »

If anyone were to flavor claim, ADK makes sense.  There seems to be a theory that role/alignment/flavor name may be tied together.  Easy way to test.
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EgorK

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #104 on: June 10, 2015, 05:25:51 am »

Interesting things happens. Seems like I need to read some about flavor to make more sense out of my role.
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faust

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N0 - D1 starts June 9)
« Reply #105 on: June 10, 2015, 06:14:52 am »

Vote Count 1.1

silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
Delirious Deleuze (3): ashersky, Ichimaru Gin, 2.71828.....
Ichimaru Gin (1): Awaclus
ashersky (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (2): Hydrad, hockeysemlan

Not Voting (7): chairs, EgorK, silverspawn, Ghacob, A Drowned Kernel, Lekkit, Delirious Deleuze

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, 8 am forum time.

day-vig vote: mail-mi

Note that, as per the rules, this counts as a valid vote.
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hockeysemlan

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #106 on: June 10, 2015, 06:30:35 am »

Ouch.

Unvote

My opinion stands, but we are naturally too much in RVS for it to be meaningful.. ehm..
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Awaclus

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #107 on: June 10, 2015, 07:01:59 am »

I think I like using the dayvig today. It is basically an extra lynch, and even if we have to do it without much information, it should still be better than nothing.
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Hydrad

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #108 on: June 10, 2015, 07:17:43 am »

I guess one way we can look at it is its an extra lynch and then using that info hopefully will have a more meaningful actual day 1 lynch.
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Hydrad

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #109 on: June 10, 2015, 07:17:54 am »

so I'm in favor of it now.
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faust

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #110 on: June 10, 2015, 12:09:53 pm »

The Day action window is now open. It closes at noon on June 12.
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Witherweaver

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #111 on: June 10, 2015, 12:14:26 pm »

ADK, did you forget about the action window, or did you decide to claim anyway?

I decided to claim anyway. I think that shooting day one is a good enough idea on its own that doing it in such a short frame is acceptable (if we can get a consensus), and there are other factors that make using it right away a good idea.

Also, 1-shot day-vig sounds townie.  I mean, do you really think scum are going to have a role where they have to publicly kill someone during the day?

Wait, do you announce it in this thread or do you have a qt that you would post in?

I post it in the game thread, it's public when I do it.

I disagree with the Day 1 shot and think that we should save it.

So why do you want to save it?
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mail-mi

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #112 on: June 10, 2015, 12:17:29 pm »

I disagree with the Day 1 shot and think that we should save it.

Because you are scum and are worried that he'll shoot you or your partners and you'd rather nightkill him to neutralize a town PR?

Or another reason?

dayvig vote mail-mi

Because I think it would be more useful to use it on day 2 when we have a bit more info but it's still early in the game.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #113 on: June 10, 2015, 12:24:38 pm »

The whole flavor thing seems to me like one of those things that sounds good but isn't really helpful in practice. Presumably scum has fakeclaims.
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EgorK

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #114 on: June 10, 2015, 01:10:16 pm »

I disagree with the Day 1 shot and think that we should save it.

Because you are scum and are worried that he'll shoot you or your partners and you'd rather nightkill him to neutralize a town PR?

Or another reason?

dayvig vote mail-mi

Because I think it would be more useful to use it on day 2 when we have a bit more info but it's still early in the game.

Problem is how likely ADK live until D2 in current conditions?
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #115 on: June 10, 2015, 01:28:02 pm »

Hmm. I don't really like how Hydrad hedges on the dayvig thing. It may not necessarily be scummy for him, but it feels like he's overly concerned about it.

I'm pretty null on ADK for now, considering he has to post his target in the thread.

And...Delueze still hasn't posted.

Witherweaver

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #116 on: June 10, 2015, 01:31:38 pm »

I have some serious doubts about scum ADK making this claim.
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Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #117 on: June 10, 2015, 02:17:56 pm »

Hi y'all! It's good to be back! I'm currently working and will be til a bit later in the afternoon.

In this short window, I'll just say I am for a vig shot. I think it'll give us extra information and also be decided by us. I doubt ADK will be alive tomorrow otherwise, too, and I think this is by something we want to be able to lose.

In lack of a more thorough read through, I'm by going to provide a vote until tonight, but I am getting a bad feeling from asherky and Hockey. I'll give a more detailed reading wig my thoughts tonight!

Sorry.

Also definitely not down for flavor claiming. At best it allows scum to get info and they can just lie to us if need be. I don't know if you all have a Buffy knowledge as large as mine, but lying would be fairly easy. Given that I think it's fairly irrelevant if ADK claims alone, because it doesn't make much of a change to the possibility of scum lying about their flavor role, also buffypedia is a thing to help those without flavor lie.
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silverspawn

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #118 on: June 10, 2015, 02:35:50 pm »

You are all missing the actual argument for flavor claiming.

My role cares about other people's flavor names.

I'll vigv0te: IG since that doesn't count as an actual vote.
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Awaclus

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #119 on: June 10, 2015, 03:01:49 pm »

You are all missing the actual argument for flavor claiming.

My role cares about other people's flavor names.

That's not an argument for flavor claiming, we don't know if chairs is town or not.

vigv0te: silverspawn
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silverspawn

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #120 on: June 10, 2015, 03:08:51 pm »

You are all missing the actual argument for flavor claiming.

My role cares about other people's flavor names.

That's not an argument for flavor claiming, we don't know if chairs is town or not.

vigv0te: silverspawn

of course it is an argument, the chance that he's town is  > 50%
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Witherweaver

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #121 on: June 10, 2015, 03:10:27 pm »

Of course he's suggested it and then literally said nothing.
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silverspawn

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #122 on: June 10, 2015, 03:12:43 pm »

I'm not saying it's a good argument. I'm not pro flavor claiming. But Awaclus' argument was flawed.
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #123 on: June 10, 2015, 03:18:34 pm »

Yeah. After M61, I am significantly more wary of chairs. Thing is, lurking is like the perfect meta to have when you're scum--it's exceedingly easy to emulate.

Witherweaver

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #124 on: June 10, 2015, 03:23:01 pm »

Though I tend to consider claiming propositions to be more of a town thing than scum thing.  Not because they're inherently townie, but rather because scum almost never does it.  The major exception being Ashersky in Village Mafia, but there was a setup broken kind of thing there.
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