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Author Topic: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)  (Read 25980 times)

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Awaclus

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #125 on: June 10, 2015, 03:37:21 pm »

I'm not saying it's a good argument. I'm not pro flavor claiming. But Awaclus' argument was flawed.

Well, obviously it's technically an argument, but it's an incredibly bad one. If chairs is scum, then not only do we give scum information about town PRs, we also enable a scum power.
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Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #126 on: June 10, 2015, 05:04:19 pm »

After rereading the thread, here's my reads up to this point.

2.71828: I don't have much of a read yet here. From the few posts he has, he seems to lean town. He is against claiming in fear of it hurting us and gave a very similar read to mine on ADK. I think he's right that ADK wouldn't say that if he was town. Then again, he could be scum just trying to defend players and seem towny. That's a stretch though. For now I feel town.

Hydrad:
Hmm dayvigging could be interesting. I guess I'm ok with it as long as its not me thats shot!
This is odd, but it doesn't strike me as something scum would say.

right but usually day 1 scum can manipulate town much easier then other days i feel. So i think if we use it day 1 there is a higher chance our extra lynch hits town.

He he seems against the vig shot.

so I'm in favor of it now.

Then he seems to flip again.

That being said, I feel like he is just trying to hypothesis test the idea of the vig shot in a vacuum, which is why he switches and is also, in my experience, a very townie thing to do. He's not afraid to voice unpopular opinions just to test the waters. I also think that it's true that the information from the vig kill would better allow us to have a more meaningful D1 lynch, so overall I get a strong town vibe here.

3. chairs: I'm very skeptical of his claim, here. I know that he doesn't want to give away his powers completely in fear of scum, but I don't see why he would incorporate a portion of a claim in with asking for flavor names, then. Scum, then, still knows he has a PR and just doesn't know what PR. It makes him still a prime candidate for a lynch. It's, overall, very suspicious. I don't feel scum would claim unless it directly benefited them to do so, and a PR that works off people's flavor names seems like something scum would have to claim from which to be able to benefit. Even if he was town, I still think claiming, depending on his power, wouldn't give us enough benefit right away. Scum would get information from the flavor names and be able to kill him at night. Unless his power provides a direct benefit today, I don't see why it would help us to mass claim, especially because scum can lie about their flavor names.

I propose, then, that chairs either tells us his powers (if it provides a direct benefit today) and then we can discuss mass claiming (which I'm still against because I think the risk he is lying is far to great), or only ADK claims. If his power can do something from one name, great, it can do it here. We also have the possibility of testing ADK's name vs. his claimed role, and ADK is either scum or scum already knows he's town and his PR because of his claim so there's no chance of them gaining information.
 
EgorK:

Interesting things happens. Seems like I need to read some about flavor to make more sense out of my role.

I think everybody is missing this... It seems like a mild claim, without incentivizing discussion. Why would he put this if he was town? I feel only scum would have incentive to hint at a PR, since it does town no good to isolate themselves if they have a PR, but scum is able to avoid being lynched by saying that they have a PR and refer back to early tells of it. Although his posting is sparse (I can't judge), he feels slightly scummy.

Ichimaru Gin: Not trying to OMGUS, but you point me out for lurking three times in your 4 (or was it 5) posts. I don't know why you're so caught up on me when other people haven't posted at all, either, at the time you said that...? Then again, I don't think such baseless pointing out or trying to make a wagon is something scum would do, it seems to obvious. Overall, I feel very neutral. Perhaps slightly leaning scum, but not enough to really know.

Witherweaver: I feel his posts are for the most part sparse and non-committal. The biggest thing I get here is that he's opposed to chair's claim, although he seems to nudge against that at the end of page 5. Its way to early to really tell, but I don't think they're on a team. I feel like WW would be pushing for mass claim if they were both scum, be against it if he was town and chairs was scum, and be for it if he was scum and chairs was town (unless he somehow knew the power would be good today and he wouldn't have the chance to kill him at night). That being said, I think WW is town, for now.

silverspawn: I'm getting a strong town vibe here. Everything he's posted has been thought out and looking for the interest of the town. I was at first rather skeptical because of the end of the fifth page when he seems to be saying there was an argument for mass claiming (I generally don't think there is, unless the power is good and claimed, maybe even not then (see above)), but in rereading it feels like he was just hinting at the possibility that the power could be really good and effect the game now, which is how I feel. Overall I feel town here.


ashersky: After rereading, I lost my feeling about him. Originally I ran through the threads during a short lunch at work, but after rereading again in the comfort of my home, I feel I was rash. I originally felt weird about him because his comment against Mail-mi:

[quote author=ashersky link=topic=12917.msg498741#msg498741 date=1433910567

Because you are scum and are worried that he'll shoot you or your partners and you'd rather nightkill him to neutralize a town PR?

Or another reason?
[/quote]

I felt it was a little aggressive, but I realize it's not and simply pointing out that mail-mi really didn't defend his point here and just baselessly said something. I don't have much of a read here.


hockeysemlan: I'm still getting my strongest scum vibe here. He is barely active (although he has an excuse) but when he does appear, his post simply hops on a wagon against mail-mi and votes for him, but then quickly pulls it off and claims it's to RVS for the votes or information to be meaningful. I feel like this is one of the more scummy things to do, trying to play all sides, while still being in the background. I haven't played with him at all, so I could be wrong and this could just be him, but I'm worried. For now, I want to here more of his thoughts, so Vote: Hockey.


Ghacob: He's posted like twice during RVS and nothing serious... So I don't know.

A Drowned Kernel: I think I elaborated above, but I feel ADK is town. I don't think scum vig would have incentive to use the shot publicly, since they could hold onto it for the right moment to sneak in a win. The worst case here is that he is scum and is trying to push a mislynch and still appear townie because he let the town decide where to shoot, but even then I think that's a bit of a stretch and less strategic. That alone gives me the town vibe, but I'm still suspicious. I think we should intelligently use the shot and still be wary, but for now I feel he's town.

Awaclus: I get a town vibe here. We agree on a lot of points and I think pushing the vig shot for information and being against mass claiming in fear of scum!chairs or scum getting information is a usually townie trait.

Lekkit:
My role is somewhat connected to my flavor.

Another mini-claim which is suspicious, and he was against the vig shot because we don't have a long time period... but I think the information still outweighs the risk. I'm thinking slightly scum here.

mail-mi: Being so against the shot and wanting to hold it til D2 seems really scummy to me. I don't believe the vig will live through a night, and I think this just wastes our chances. At worst we get a bunch of information of a) who that person was, b) who pushed for the shoot, and c) information in the discussions on who to shoot. I don't see any reason a townie would be against this. vigv0te: mail-mi.

I think that covers my opinion on every issue. Sorry for the wall of text.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #127 on: June 10, 2015, 05:17:05 pm »

Ouch.

Unvote

My opinion stands, but we are naturally too much in RVS for it to be meaningful.. ehm..

I missed this. We are so out of RVS. vigv0te: hockey

wall of text

I'm so glad to have you in this game.
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Witherweaver

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #128 on: June 10, 2015, 05:20:43 pm »

Are we vigvoting instead of voting?

vigv0te: DeDe

This sounds like he's trying to hard to have a read on everyone.  Also reminds me quite a bit of when he was scum.
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Awaclus

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #129 on: June 10, 2015, 05:35:30 pm »

Are we vigvoting instead of voting?

Well, we have to decide on the vig target before the actual lynch, so it would make sense to vigv0te first.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #130 on: June 10, 2015, 05:40:11 pm »

Are we vigvoting instead of voting?

vigv0te: DeDe

This sounds like he's trying to hard to have a read on everyone.  Also reminds me quite a bit of when he was scum.

We're also on a pretty strict time limit, the window for day actions closes in <48 hours.
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silverspawn

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #131 on: June 10, 2015, 05:42:03 pm »

Are we vigvoting instead of voting?

vigv0te: DeDe

This sounds like he's trying to hard to have a read on everyone.  Also reminds me quite a bit of when he was scum.

maybe you just don't like it because you're a scum read? vigv0te: WW
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Witherweaver

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #132 on: June 10, 2015, 05:42:56 pm »

Are we vigvoting instead of voting?

vigv0te: DeDe

This sounds like he's trying to hard to have a read on everyone.  Also reminds me quite a bit of when he was scum.

maybe you just don't like it because you're a scum read? vigv0te: WW

Except he said he thought I was town.
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silverspawn

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #133 on: June 10, 2015, 05:46:43 pm »

Except he said he thought I was town.

oh uhm never mind.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #134 on: June 10, 2015, 05:50:28 pm »

I'm an IC to you now, right?
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ashersky

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #135 on: June 10, 2015, 05:52:50 pm »

Pretty sure we've never seen town!DeDe.  He was mvp SKn his first game.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #136 on: June 10, 2015, 05:55:43 pm »

That wasn't his first game.. he had two or three town games before that.
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Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #137 on: June 10, 2015, 06:01:32 pm »

Well I have played games as town, I did the wall of text thing then too, and actually every game o was town WW was scum. Just odd.

But yeah, WW, I obviously tried to get a read on everyone (I literally listed and read every person) --because I think critically reading every post and giving my thoughts is generally helpful. That being said, I still think you're town, but we should probably encourage people to have responses with a lot of content so that there is more to read and from which to figure out who scum is.

I put both of my votes in my post, but I definitely think vig vote should be first.

PS (2): yeah.
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silverspawn

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #138 on: June 10, 2015, 06:04:18 pm »

Pretty sure we've never seen town!DeDe.  He was mvp SKn his first game.

yeah, the SK

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silverspawn

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #139 on: June 10, 2015, 06:04:37 pm »

look how good I am at inserting quotes.
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Witherweaver

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #140 on: June 10, 2015, 06:08:19 pm »

Well I have played games as town, I did the wall of text thing then too, and actually every game o was town WW was scum. Just odd.

But yeah, WW, I obviously tried to get a read on everyone (I literally listed and read every person) --because I think critically reading every post and giving my thoughts is generally helpful. That being said, I still think you're town, but we should probably encourage people to have responses with a lot of content so that there is more to read and from which to figure out who scum is.

I put both of my votes in my post, but I definitely think vig vote should be first.

PS (2): yeah.

I did realize that me voting you for that could be read as discouraging people from posting with content, but, hey, I thought it was scummy so I voted. 

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Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #141 on: June 10, 2015, 06:14:27 pm »

I mean, okay? Good for you? I still think it's kind of discouraging people from long posts. Also very baseless seeing as I'm was literally attempting to read everybody as evidence from the fact that I... Read everybody. Also if you actually read my post a lot of the reads included the fact that I wasn't sure because of a lack of content.

Either way, I'm not going to defend myself for providing my thoughts on everyone in the game. If you think my reads were wrong, let me know and provide counter thoughts, but don't just say I'm scum because I'm attempting to provide thoughts and discussion.

Sorry if this is coming off as annoyed. I spent like an hour trying to actually provide meaningful discussion and you kind of ignored it. I'd appreciate your thoughts on my arguments so we can work together to try to figure out the best course of action, even if you think I'm scum. Keep your vote, but provide discussion.
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Witherweaver

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #142 on: June 10, 2015, 06:21:34 pm »

Well there seems to be this perception that voting someone is the same as discouraging their playstyle, and that's not really how it works.  I want you to keep posting, especially if you're scum.
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Witherweaver

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #143 on: June 10, 2015, 06:23:13 pm »

It's also possible that I'm confusing a style that's simply you with a style that's your scum play.  I don't remember you quite posting that way before your MU game, but I could very well be mistaken there.
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Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #144 on: June 10, 2015, 06:29:04 pm »

I mean I'm fairly sure I did in the other games, but it's probably not memorable because I was vanilla town and died like D1/D2 both games.

That said, I think it your reason for voting for someone is that their play style... Like literally the fact I tried to read everyone... Is scummy, that does discourage it, because you're saying that scum would be the ones incentivized to provide analytic readings of everyone, and not regular town... Who I think more than anyone should provide long posts with lots of reads.

Either way, my arguments remain. I'd like to hear people's thoughts about the claiming options
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #145 on: June 10, 2015, 06:38:06 pm »

ADK, I say definitely shoot today.

vigv9te WW

unvote -- Not lynching DD today.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #146 on: June 10, 2015, 06:50:46 pm »

ADK, I say definitely shoot today.

vigv9te WW

unvote -- Not lynching DD today.

Wait why are you voting for WW?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #147 on: June 10, 2015, 06:53:51 pm »

whoa I've never seen you in a game before DeDe but now I want you in all of them! your town for today at least for effort alone.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #148 on: June 10, 2015, 07:05:52 pm »

ADK, I say definitely shoot today.

vigv9te WW

unvote -- Not lynching DD today.

Wait why are you voting for WW?

I think going after you for what he did was scummy.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #149 on: June 10, 2015, 07:09:01 pm »

I don't know what that means.
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