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Author Topic: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)  (Read 26083 times)

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faust

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RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
« on: April 04, 2015, 09:38:36 am »

Welcome to RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia!

Mod: faust

This is a closed RMM game for 15 players. It is, in some ways, a follow-up to the LOST Mafia RMM which never quite took off, reusing some of the ideas implemented there, but also introducing totally new aspects. The theme of this game follows the flavor of the shows "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Angel". Roles, and alignments, will be highly thematic.

Realize that RMM stands for Role Madness Mafia, and this may be true for this game in a particular way. Every player gets a uniquely designed role that may very well feature new or unusual types of actions as well as nonstandard win conditions. Still, this is not a bastard game, and balance has been strived for. There will be no mod lying, and no player's win condition can change over the course of the game. More details about the setup are found in the following post.


Players:
1. 2.71828.....
2. Hydrad (Xander Harris, the Town-aligned Sarcastic Sidekick) (lynched D1) (revived D4) (killed N5)
3. chairs (Anyanka, the Town-aligned Rehabilitated Vengeance Demon) (killed N5)
4. EgorK (Tara Maclay, the Vampire-aligned Witch of All Trades) (lynched D2)
5. Ichimaru Gin (Illyria, the self-aligned Time Travelling Old One) (killed N2)
6. Witherweaver replaced by UmbrageOfSnow (Warren Mears, the self-aligned Megalomaniac Inventor) (lynched D5)
7. silverspawn (Faith Lehane, the Town-aligned Capricious Slayer) (killed N5)
8. ashersky
9. hockeysemlan
10. Ghacob (Dawn Summers, the Town-aligned Kleptomaniac Teenager) (killed D1)
11. A Drowned Kernel replaced by Archetype
12. Awaclus (Lorne, the Wolfram&Hart-aligned Aura-reading Karaoke Bar Host) (lynched D4)
13. Lekkit (Spike, the Town-aligned Chipped Vampire) (killed N2)
14. Delirious Deleuze
15. mail-mi (Cordelia Chase, the Town-aligned Vision Girl) (killed N4)

Spectators tagged: Archetype, skip wooznum

Day starts/ends:
D1 start | end
D2 start | end
D3 start | end
D4 start | end
D5 start

General rules

Changes to the usual rule sets are marked in olive.

The Golden Rule:


Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun!  Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game. Please read The Civility Pledge before signing up for any mafia game on this site.  If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play. Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.

The Silver Rule:

If any instructions you receive from the mods (via PM or otherwise) contradict any rules stated here, please stick to the instructions. If you are unsure, please contact the mods before taking action.


1. General Gameplay and Etiquette:

1. You may not quote information (either real or fabricated) from any source other than the thread you are posting in. This means no quotes from PMs and no quotes from QTs in the main thread or in another QT. Paraphrasing is acceptable. If you are unsure whether a post is legal, please ask the moderator before posting.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings and the QTs specifically designed for this purpose.
3. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage).
4. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 24 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.

2. Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:

1. This game will have variable deadlines, depending on the number of players still alive as follows: If more than 13 or less than 7 players are alive, days will last 7 days, otherwise 9 days. Night lasts 48 hours.
2. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
3. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate.  Further votes will also be ignored.
4. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until the mod locks the thread; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
5. If the deadline is hit without a player reaching the majority of votes, the player that is closest to lynch will die, with ties broken randomly.
6. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName.  Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
7. Please submit vote revocations Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
8. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
9. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game or in Quicktopics. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent. Personal communication remains forbidden until the game is over.
10. If the thread is locked, you may not post.  Threads can be locked for various reasons, but no matter what the reason, you may not post.  The mod may forget to lock the thread, but if they say it is locked, it is still locked.

3. Miscellaneous/Mechanics:

1. Bold, olive text is reserved for the mod.  No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please discuss this in your role QT.  Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently.  Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed.  These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued upon request after 24 hours of no activity.  A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement.  A player who has been prodded 2 times is subject to replacement under rule 3.9 without further notice.
6. Please do not discuss ongoing games, it can unintentionally affect the other game. Do not discuss this game in any thread that is not directly related to it.
7. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, which may include modkill(s) if needed.
8. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Treat this game as a commitment.  Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.
9. Players who discover they are too busy to play in a game or want to leave the game for civility issues are not allowed to officially /out in the thread.  A request to /out must only be done via a PM to the moderator.  Please do not use this as a manipulation technique.  (Note players may continue to threaten to /out or imply that they might as long as it does not include an official request). Requests to /out are final once submitted. There will be no /outing and then /inning back into the game so make sure that when you /out you have thought it through and really want to do it. Players that can't be replaced will simply be mod-killed. Whether your request to /out will lead to replacement or a modkill is up to the mod's discretion.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 04:00:13 pm by faust »
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

faust

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2015, 09:38:50 am »

Setup Information

This is an interaction-heavy setup. Special rules apply for this game, some of those rules are taken from previous RMM games (in particular Dune 2 and Time War Mafia). The rules are:

1. Actions
The game is split into game phases, i.e. Day phases and Night phases. Every action players can perform will come either as a Day action, a Night action or a Day/Night action.

1.1 Day actions
Day actions must be submitted during the Day action window. The Day action window opens 24 hours into each Day and ends 48 hours later. All actions taken during the Day, unless specified otherwise, must be submitted within that window. Day actions are processed in the order they are posted. You may hand in your Day action order in advance, i.e. within the first 24 hours of the Day. If you do, the action will resolved at the start of the Day action window. If multiple players do, actions are resolved according to the Action Resolution chain as described below. Day actions are final once submitted. Votes do not count as Day actions for any purpose.

1.2 Night actions
Night actions must be submitted during the first 24 hours of the night. Night actions may be changed until the end of the deadline. All night actions resolve at the end of the night according to the Action resolution chain.

1.3 Day/Night actions
Day/Night action may be submitted either during the Day action window or during the first 24 hours of the night. Once an action of this kind has been submitted, it will not be possible to use that power the following game phase. (I.e. if the action was submitted during the Day, you may not use it the following night.)

1.4 Special actions
Some actions may specify other times for the submission. Please read your Role QT carefully to find out when your action has to be submitted.

1.5 Submission
All action names are verbs in the imperative mood (i.e. “kill” or “eat”). When an action is being used, the player must write the action name followed by a colon, one space, and the target’s player name in their Role QT or their factional QT if applicable (only if their factional QT is not locked at the time of submission). Orders placed in the Role QT always prevail over orders in the factional QT. The entire phrase must be bolded. For example: Salute: sudgy. Some actions may specify other modes of submission. Please read your Role QT carefully.

2. Items
Players in this game may hold items. The items give some sort of power. During the day, each player may give an item to any other player by posting Give: Player name in thread. This counts as a Day action (see above) for all purposes. If you hold multiple items, you need to specify which item you want to give in your Role QT as soon as you post this. No player may ever hold more than three items; if they would gain an additional item, this item is removed from the game.

You may also destroy any item you hold. To do this, post Destroy: Item in your personal QT. If you do, that item is removed from the game. This counts as a Day/Night action for all purposes.

3. Species
All players may be assigned at most one species (e.g. "human" or "demon"). Demons may be classified by an additional subcategory (e.g. "vampire"). In general, species is not indicative of alignment.

4. Time Travel
At least one power in this game will revolve around Time Travel. A player with a Time Travel power may choose to travel to a different game phase to perform their action, if any. After carrying out their action (if applicable), they return to the current game phase.

It is not possible for players with Time Travel powers to have their action manipulated by being targeted in the game phase they travel to, only by being targeted in the current game phase. (e.g. if in N3, a Time Travelling Vigilante travels to D1 to perform a kill, a Roleblocker targeting them during D1 will not be able to stop the kill) If a player with a Time Travel power travels to a Day phase, their action will automatically resolve after all other actions of that Day phase.

It is not possible that Time Travel powers change vote counts in any way, even if the player who hammered is now already dead. At the end of each game phase, all game phases in the “past” will be re-evaluated and the game state will be adjusted to account for these actions, beginning with N0.

5. Player resurrection
Due to mechanics in this game, it may be possible for players in this game to return from the dead. Therefore, I will not grant dead players access to the spectator QT. Any player may choose to opt out of the game once they have died, thus giving up any chance of interaction with the game, in return for access to the spectator QT. This is not advised. Once the chances of again interacting with the game have dropped to zero for a given player, I will inform them of this and the will be given access to the spectator QT. Dead player may not perform actions unless stated otherwise.

6. Flips, flavor and role names
Each role comes with a flavor name from either of the series "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Angel". It also comes with a role name that gives a short flavorful description of what the role does. These role names need not follow established terminology. Additionally, each role comes with an alignment. (e.g. "Town-aligned" or "self-aligned"). Once a player dies, their flavor name, role name and alignment will be posted in the game thread.

7. Action resolution chain
All actions that are resolved at the same time, in particular night actions, will be resolved according to the following protocol:

1. Find an action (or a passive modifier) such that its effect cannot possibly be modified by any other action.
2. Resolve it.
3. Repeat from step 1 until all actions are resolved.

In case of conflicting night actions, order of resolution is determined by the kind of action performed in the following way:

1. Time Travel
2. Copy
3. Hide
4. Bus
5. Block
6. Redirect
7. Protect
8. Item-related actions
9. Miscellaneous
10. Kill
11. Recruit
12. Inspect

If you are unsure in which category your night action falls, please ask in your Role QT. In case of conflicting night actions of the same type, the following protocol is applied:

1. Actions by town-aligned players are resolved first.
2. If 1 doesn't apply, actions by demon players are resolved first.
3. If 2 doesn't apply, actions by roles with female flavor names are resolved first.
4. If 3 doesn't apply, the action submitted first will be resolved first.

8. Miscellaneous
This game takes its flavor from the shows "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Angel". The setting is roughly the sixth season of Buffy/third season of Angel, but the flavor may also reference earlier or later episodes. Flavor knowledge is not required (though helpful) to play the game.

It is not possible for any player to have their win condition changed during the course of this game.

Any questions regarding the setup should be posed either pregame or in your Role QT.

In order to sign up for this game, a player should have finished at least one game of mafia on f.ds. By signing up for this, you agree that the mod of this game has the last word in any discussion, and may change the rules of the game at his own discretion if he deems it necessary. You further agree to respect the rules of this game even once you have dropped out, until it is finished.

The win condition for Town-aligned players is as follows:

Quote
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated, and there is at least one Town-aligned player left alive.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 05:20:54 am by faust »
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

2.71828.....

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2015, 12:28:18 am »

a follow-up to the LOST Mafia RMM

'nuff said.  /in
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Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2015, 12:31:44 am »

Time war was also amazing.  Let's get Voltaire back.  Who is going to his thing next weekend at Cat & Mouse Games?  You should totally convince him to play.  (I would go but Chicago is so far away and work and stuff.
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Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2015, 12:34:27 am »

Daah. I really want to join, but I'm in 2 games right now and signed up for 2 more. 3 games at once is kind of where I draw the line. When is this expected to start?
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 12:47:39 am by Ichimaru Gin »
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Hydrad

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2015, 01:07:56 am »

/in
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For anyone else, such a statement would be a scum tell.  For Hydrad, it's simply a tell that you're reading something from Hydrad.

ashersky

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2015, 01:13:16 am »

Angel is the best.  /in
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

EgorK

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2015, 04:17:41 am »

I'm /in if it starts within a week
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faust

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2015, 11:54:31 am »

Daah. I really want to join, but I'm in 2 games right now and signed up for 2 more. 3 games at once is kind of where I draw the line. When is this expected to start?

It starts when it fills up I guess, but I expect that to take a while. 15 players is a lot after all. I think it's reasonable to assume that Deus Ex Mafia will be finished before this starts, and possibly Kirby Mafia as well.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Ichimaru Gin

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2015, 11:56:19 am »

Ok. I'll /in then.

faust

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2015, 11:56:44 am »

I'm /in if it starts within a week

I fear that's unlikely... but we'll see.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2015, 02:23:15 pm »

Yeah.

/in
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silverspawn

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2015, 04:19:34 pm »

/in
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Archetype

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2015, 04:36:19 pm »

/tag, know nothing of the flavor.

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ashersky

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2015, 08:05:55 pm »

/out, sorry
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2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

chairs

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2015, 02:24:06 pm »

/in, finally back to normality here at home.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2015, 10:57:20 pm »

/tag for now
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ashersky

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2015, 01:33:54 am »

/back in
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2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

Ghacob

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2015, 11:06:34 pm »

/tag

this one sure is slow to fill, huh?
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Gender happened.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2015, 05:00:32 pm »

/In
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No win is caused by luck. Not a single one. Losses on the other hand...

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2015, 05:16:51 pm »

I'll /in I guess
Whatever happens happens, the more practice the better
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faust

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2015, 08:38:16 am »

/In

So... I've had bad experiences with newbie players in my games. You can play here, but please read the rules carefully and stick to them strictly.

That said, welcome at f.ds Mafia! :) It's always nice to have new people around.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

hockeysemlan

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2015, 09:14:42 am »

/In

So... I've had bad experiences with newbie players in my games. You can play here, but please read the rules carefully and stick to them strictly.

That said, welcome at f.ds Mafia! :) It's always nice to have new people around.

Yes, sir! Absolutely sir! I can promise to read everything carefully and I won't troll around by purpose in any way. Can't promise to play good though or avoid stupid mistakes since I haven't played forum, so if you like I can just play the hearthstone one to begin with..

But if the game lacks player I hope you still let me try, I nerd things quite intensely before I join them. I've red through more than a few of the previous games here on f.ds so I hopefully won't do anything incredible stupid..

Thanks for the welcome however, whatever you choose if I can be in or not :)
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No win is caused by luck. Not a single one. Losses on the other hand...

liopoil

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2015, 02:25:58 pm »

I think he just means that you are encouraged not to, oh, you know, send your mafia QT to everyone in the game.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2015, 02:33:14 pm »

I think he just means that you are encouraged not to, oh, you know, send your mafia QT to everyone in the game.

Haha, I wouldn't even know how to ^^

but ye, then of course not and that's that. I stopped playing chatmafia due too much unseriousness. Not fun.
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No win is caused by luck. Not a single one. Losses on the other hand...

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2015, 02:43:51 pm »

This needs to fill!
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2015, 02:53:06 pm »

I think he just means that you are encouraged not to, oh, you know, send your mafia QT to everyone in the game.

Too soon, man.

And sure, /in
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faust

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2015, 06:19:37 am »

/In

So... I've had bad experiences with newbie players in my games. You can play here, but please read the rules carefully and stick to them strictly.

That said, welcome at f.ds Mafia! :) It's always nice to have new people around.

Yes, sir! Absolutely sir! I can promise to read everything carefully and I won't troll around by purpose in any way. Can't promise to play good though or avoid stupid mistakes since I haven't played forum, so if you like I can just play the hearthstone one to begin with..

But if the game lacks player I hope you still let me try, I nerd things quite intensely before I join them. I've red through more than a few of the previous games here on f.ds so I hopefully won't do anything incredible stupid..

Thanks for the welcome however, whatever you choose if I can be in or not :)

Sounds good. You're in!

So this will be fairly complicated. Don't hesitate to ask me stuff if you have questions. If you like, you can read the Lost Mafia thread to get an idea of how my RMM games look like (though arguably this one is crazier). I'm sure you can manage though, it's not rocket science or anything.
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faust

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2015, 06:20:44 am »

I'm /in if it starts within a week

This was... a bit more than a week ago. Are you still willing to play?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2015, 06:54:26 am »

I think he just means that you are encouraged not to, oh, you know, send your mafia QT to everyone in the game.

Outrageous. I've just read the LOST-thread and good lord.. I understand Faust is suspicious to new players becuase of this, but in no way I'm capable of doing such a thing. Im here primarly for dominion and to be hated there by you all would be a night mare. The game was also really interesting to read so Im pissed as well.

And I strongly like the friendly tone you strive for here in opposition to mafiascum and the like. Its the confligt-heavy stuff i fear for in Mafia, but here it really stands clear (for the most time) that you're annoyed at each other as a part of the game and playstile and not IRL.. that's assuring :)
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (4 spots left!)
« Reply #30 on: May 28, 2015, 01:05:02 am »

How is this not full?  LOST was a great game ruined by a bad egg.  This is our chance to relive it!
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (4 spots left!)
« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2015, 01:49:55 pm »

Yes, this should fill. 4 spots can't be that hard. Arch, you know you want to be in this game! And what about you other people from LOST mafia? This will be equally as much fun, only with an even better theme.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (4 spots left!)
« Reply #32 on: May 29, 2015, 01:50:57 pm »

only with an even better theme.
that won't be hard  :P
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (4 spots left!)
« Reply #33 on: May 29, 2015, 01:54:02 pm »

/in
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (3 spots left!)
« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2015, 10:32:20 am »

Fun fact: The last Buffyverse-themed game was M17, run roughly two and a half years ago. Exactly one of the players in that game signed up for this game. (not counting ashersky, who modded back then)

Fun fact 2: I'm looking at old thread to seek out potential Buffy fans to get them to sign up here. Hey, Teproc/Lekkit/jotheonah, how's it going?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (3 spots left!)
« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2015, 12:33:35 pm »

SUMMMMMMMER!!!!!

/in
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (3 spots left!)
« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2015, 03:41:57 pm »

SUMMMMMMMER!!!!!

/in

Welcome back! :)
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (3 spots left!)
« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2015, 03:47:54 pm »

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (4 spots left!)
« Reply #38 on: May 30, 2015, 04:52:02 pm »

Yes, this should fill. 4 spots can't be that hard. Arch, you know you want to be in this game! And what about you other people from LOST mafia? This will be equally as much fun, only with an even better theme.
I do want to be in this game! But, sadly, I fear that I'll be too busy to play. Excited to see what this game has in store, though!
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (2 spots left!)
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2015, 12:31:15 am »

And /out.  :( :( :( I just learned that I'm not going to be able to have nearly enough time for this. Sorry!
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (3 spots left!)
« Reply #40 on: June 01, 2015, 03:29:57 am »

I've been eyeing this thread for a while. Can't say no now, can I?

/in
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (2 spots left!)
« Reply #41 on: June 02, 2015, 03:43:59 pm »

And /out.  :( :( :( I just learned that I'm not going to be able to have nearly enough time for this. Sorry!
If this is still open by the time I get back on Monday I should be able to join.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (2 spots left!)
« Reply #42 on: June 03, 2015, 01:59:29 am »

I'm back and in.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (2 spots left!)
« Reply #43 on: June 03, 2015, 02:10:55 am »

I think I've been gone too long...

I meant /in
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (2 spots left!)
« Reply #44 on: June 03, 2015, 05:52:23 am »

I think I've been gone too long...

I meant /in

Good to see you :)
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (2 spots left!)
« Reply #45 on: June 03, 2015, 05:58:14 am »

And /out.  :( :( :( I just learned that I'm not going to be able to have nearly enough time for this. Sorry!
If this is still open by the time I get back on Monday I should be able to join.

Does that mean you would be okay if the game started on June 8?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (2 spots left!)
« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2015, 10:05:47 am »

And /out.  :( :( :( I just learned that I'm not going to be able to have nearly enough time for this. Sorry!
If this is still open by the time I get back on Monday I should be able to join.

Does that mean you would be okay if the game started on June 8?

Sure!
/in
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N0 - D1 starts June 9)
« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2015, 05:26:46 pm »

THREAD LOCKED! (expect for tagging)

PMs are going out now. Please read the setup post and your role QT carefully. D1 starts Tuesday morning.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N0 - D1 starts June 9)
« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2015, 05:46:03 pm »

And PMs are out! Please check in in at least one of the QTs available to you before June 9.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N0 - D1 starts June 9)
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2015, 04:22:23 am »

Not all players have yet confirmed in their QT. If you don't do so within 24 hours, you will be subject to replacement.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N0 - D1 starts June 9)
« Reply #50 on: June 09, 2015, 11:56:45 am »

The air is full of tension at Hyperion Hotel. The paranormal detective agency named "Angel Investigations" has retreated to their headquarters after their last, unsuccessful fight with their archenemies at Wolfram&Hart.

"This is too much for us to handle. Don't you see that?", yells Cordelia. "This time, we cannot win on our own. Wolfram&Hart is about to open a portal to a hell dimension, giving all kinds of unspeakable horrors way to Los Angeles, and there is nothing we can do about it!"

"And what do you suggest we do?", asks Angel. "We've already contacted everyone that owes us a favor in LA. Everyone is too afraid to support us, expecting to be crushed."

"There is a way, and you know it."

"What? No, no way. You can't possibly... I'm sure they have enough to deal with themselves. This is not an option."

"Angel - I don't know what happened there between you and Buffy, and honestly I don't want to know. But we need her here. And if you're too afraid to ask her, then I certainly will."

And with these words, Cordelia runs to the telephone, leaving Angel sitting in his chair, stunned.

It is daily routine, but Buffy knows blowing off some steam will be good for her right now. She doesn't know where the vampire hides, but he should be somewhere on this graveyard. Stake in her hand, she rushes from gravestone to gravestone, trying to feel the presence of the undead. Suddenly, a melody plays from her pocket. Her mobile phone. "Dammit", mutters Buffy.

"Yes, who's there? I'm kinda busy, you know." A sudden movement behind Buffy makes her turn around.Two vampires obviously heard her phone ringing and stand right before her. Buffy kicks the left one in stomach, striking for the other one with her stake.

"Cordelia! How have you been? No sorry, I'm not really in the mood for small talk. So what's the matter?" Buffy does a backflip to evade the vampires attack, attaining a defensive postion behind one of the gravestones.

"Permanent darkness, you say? Sounds interesting." The vampires now close in on Buffy from both sides. Buffy puts the hand that doesn't hold the mobile on the gravestone, pushes herself up, and with a spread of her legs kicks both the attacks in the face.

"Well, as you might know, we have our very own gate to a hell dimension here at Sunnydale." With that, she jumps one of her attackers who was pushed to the ground by her kick, and drives the stake through his heart. The vampire dissolves to a could of dust, but at that moment, the other vampire jumps Buffy from behind, pushing her to the ground.

"Ugh... yes, of course I can how that's dangerous. Can't you deal with that on your own though? I thought you guys were like the Avangers of LA." Buffy rams her elbow into the attacking vampire's chest, then turn around to face him. His teeth draw closer to Buffy's throat.

"Okay, fine. We'll just leave the Hellmouth unattended for a couple of days. This better be worth it." Buffy's knee hits the vampire's private parts hard, and she uses his moment of pain to get on top of him.

"I'll tell the gang, sure. No problem. See you then." With that, see stakes the other attacker. Behind the gravestones she senses more movements. This is going to be a long night...


Day 1 starts! Thread unlocked!

Vote Count 1.0


Not Voting (15): 2.71828....., Hydrad, chairs, EgorK, Ichimaru Gin, Witherweaver, silverspawn, ashersky, hockeysemlan, Ghacob, A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, Lekkit, Delirious Deleuze, mail-mi

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, 8 am forum time.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 03:14:49 pm by faust »
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #51 on: June 09, 2015, 12:00:40 pm »

Yeey!

Going to be busy tonight, but I'm here!

Vote: Lekkit

Because swedish reasons.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #52 on: June 09, 2015, 12:10:14 pm »

Okay, claiming time.

I have a restriction which limits the amount of times I can vote per day. If I overstep this amount, bad things will happen. That's all I'll say about it.

I don't think it's a big deal, it basically just means I can't participate in RVS.

Thoughts?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #53 on: June 09, 2015, 12:14:34 pm »

Thoughts?

I think you're scum because of Futuramafia.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #54 on: June 09, 2015, 12:20:09 pm »

Hooray!  I have no such restriction.

Vote: Silverspawn because he can't OMGUS me.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #55 on: June 09, 2015, 12:24:33 pm »

Hooray!  I have no such restriction.

Vote: Silverspawn because he can't OMGUS me.

OMGUS!
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #56 on: June 09, 2015, 12:25:23 pm »

I think that while silverspawns claim basically says nothing, it's at least some kind of attempt to move away from RVS before it even happens. Aside from hockeysemlan...
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mail-mi

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #57 on: June 09, 2015, 12:41:50 pm »

It is good to be back.  :D

vote: hockeysemlan because I don't know you.
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'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #58 on: June 09, 2015, 12:54:38 pm »

My role cares about other people's flavor names. How does everyone feel about the benefits/drawbacks to flavor name claiming?

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #59 on: June 09, 2015, 12:58:51 pm »

My role cares about other people's flavor names. How does everyone feel about the benefits/drawbacks to flavor name claiming?

subtle scum role fishing?

aren't flavor names indicative of roles for those who know the flavor?
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #60 on: June 09, 2015, 03:08:22 pm »

Interesting. ftr, I (again) no basically nothing about the flavor. I'm open to flavor-claiming though.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #61 on: June 09, 2015, 04:11:49 pm »

My role is somewhat connected to my flavor.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #62 on: June 09, 2015, 04:24:20 pm »

vote: Delirious Deleuze because welcome back!
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Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #63 on: June 09, 2015, 04:29:01 pm »

I for one feel like meeting people by flavor would be fun and interesting
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #64 on: June 09, 2015, 04:29:58 pm »

Would it actually be a smart thing to do? Probably not
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #65 on: June 09, 2015, 04:53:10 pm »

Interesting. ftr, I (again) no basically nothing about the flavor. I'm open to flavor-claiming though.

Vote: Ichi
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #66 on: June 09, 2015, 05:23:39 pm »

vote: Delirious Deleuze because welcome back!
vote: ashersky because he didn't welcome me back.  :'(
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #67 on: June 09, 2015, 05:26:20 pm »

vote: Delirious Deleuze because welcome back!
vote: ashersky because he didn't welcome me back.  :'(

welcome back!

I think you were playing in my very first mafia game - zelda - and then you left  :(

so, this is basically our first real game, since last time I was a complete noob
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #68 on: June 09, 2015, 05:34:18 pm »

vote: Delirious Deleuze because welcome back!
vote: ashersky because he didn't welcome me back.  :'(

welcome back!

I think you were playing in my very first mafia game - zelda - and then you left  :(

so, this is basically our first real game, since last time I was a complete noob
Hi silverspawn! I remember you.

Let's make it a good one.  :)
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #69 on: June 09, 2015, 05:34:35 pm »

Vote: mail-mi

Because hi!
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #70 on: June 09, 2015, 05:35:34 pm »

Vote: mail-mi

Because hi!

Hi drad!

Bringing back good memories from Dice mafia.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #71 on: June 09, 2015, 05:35:57 pm »

My role cares about other people's flavor names. How does everyone feel about the benefits/drawbacks to flavor name claiming?

Hmm I guess I don't care much. But I don't know flavor so I'm not sure if I would be giving something important away.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #72 on: June 09, 2015, 05:36:22 pm »

Vote: mail-mi

Because hi!

Hi drad!

Bringing back good memories from Dice mafia.

yay thats still one of my favorite games I've been in.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #73 on: June 09, 2015, 05:38:43 pm »

so, what do other people think about flavor claims?

Setup says
Quote from: setup
6. Flips, flavor and role names
Each role comes with a flavor name from either of the series "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Angel". It also comes with a role name that gives a short flavorful description of what the role does. These role names need not follow established terminology.
and
Quote from: setup
Flavor knowledge is not required (though helpful) to play the game.

to me, that sounds like scum!who!knows!the!flavor could gain information about which players are more likely to be powerful PR's. I don't think that's worth the risk.

I don't know how important chairs' role is though. If he thinks it's a big enough advantage, maybe we can do it.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #74 on: June 09, 2015, 05:39:02 pm »

My role cares about other people's flavor names. How does everyone feel about the benefits/drawbacks to flavor name claiming?

Hmm I guess I don't care much. But I don't know flavor so I'm not sure if I would be giving something important away.

I'm with Hydrad on this one.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #75 on: June 09, 2015, 05:46:15 pm »

Quote from: flavor
"Ugh... yes, of course I can how that's dangerous.

I think there's a 'see' missing
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #76 on: June 09, 2015, 06:06:15 pm »

I have a 1-shot Dayvig.

I'm claiming this because I think that I should probably use it on the first day, and that we should basically treat it like a second lynch, with people voting on who I should shoot. That way it's basically like we skip a night phase.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #77 on: June 09, 2015, 06:08:45 pm »

I have a 1-shot Dayvig.

I'm claiming this because I think that I should probably use it on the first day, and that we should basically treat it like a second lynch, with people voting on who I should shoot. That way it's basically like we skip a night phase.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #78 on: June 09, 2015, 06:10:14 pm »

 :(

Also. vote: Delerious Deleuze for lurking.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #79 on: June 09, 2015, 06:15:41 pm »

On an unrelated note, Delirious Deleuze and I know each other IRL. Just a heads up.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #80 on: June 09, 2015, 06:15:56 pm »

On an unrelated note, Delirious Deleuze and I know each other IRL. Just a heads up.
Oh yeah. I forgot about that.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #81 on: June 09, 2015, 06:23:34 pm »

I have a 1-shot Dayvig.

I'm claiming this because I think that I should probably use it on the first day, and that we should basically treat it like a second lynch, with people voting on who I should shoot. That way it's basically like we skip a night phase.

Hm...I'm willing to trust that you're town right now, but having a 1-shot dayvig as a scum roll could be there just to throw us off.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #82 on: June 09, 2015, 06:46:33 pm »

so, what do other people think about flavor claims?

Setup says
Quote from: setup
6. Flips, flavor and role names
Each role comes with a flavor name from either of the series "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Angel". It also comes with a role name that gives a short flavorful description of what the role does. These role names need not follow established terminology.
and
Quote from: setup
Flavor knowledge is not required (though helpful) to play the game.

to me, that sounds like scum!who!knows!the!flavor could gain information about which players are more likely to be powerful PR's. I don't think that's worth the risk.

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of flavor claiming.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #83 on: June 09, 2015, 06:50:11 pm »

72 hours from game start seems like a pretty narrow window to find a "second lynch" day 1 in a game with 15 players.

I think claiming this looks bad.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #84 on: June 09, 2015, 06:51:30 pm »

Vote: Silverspawn for being all cautious.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #85 on: June 09, 2015, 06:52:14 pm »

72 hours from game start seems like a pretty narrow window to find a "second lynch" day 1 in a game with 15 players.
Oh yeah, there's that window. Let's not do it today.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #86 on: June 09, 2015, 06:52:21 pm »

I'm not sure, I think there are two ways to look at it.

1) lynching later has a higher % to hit scum -> claiming is bad
2) using it day 1 means more information on future days -> claiming is good

I think it's up to ADK how to use his power, if he thinks claiming it right away is the best way, then that's okay. And it's too late to change that now anyway.

Doesn't make him an IC though.

I hope that this at least stops players from treating day 1 as not important. Day 1 is super important.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #87 on: June 09, 2015, 06:52:54 pm »

72 hours from game start seems like a pretty narrow window to find a "second lynch" day 1 in a game with 15 players.
Oh yeah, there's that window. Let's not do it today.

oh, right. that's a thing. Now I get it. Mh, yeah, that makes it look bad.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #88 on: June 09, 2015, 06:53:25 pm »

ADK, did you forget about the action window, or did you decide to claim anyway?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #89 on: June 09, 2015, 07:41:51 pm »

I am opposed to flavor claiming.  For all the reasons that everyone is usually opposed to flavor claiming.

And there are so many people in this game.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #90 on: June 09, 2015, 07:48:21 pm »

Also, 1-shot day-vig sounds townie.  I mean, do you really think scum are going to have a role where they have to publicly kill someone during the day?

Wait, do you announce it in this thread or do you have a qt that you would post in?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #91 on: June 09, 2015, 07:49:18 pm »

Because if he can day-vig someone without announcing it in the thread and he told us about it?  I mean, I think ADK is town for now.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #92 on: June 09, 2015, 10:09:41 pm »

I have a 1-shot Dayvig.

I'm claiming this because I think that I should probably use it on the first day, and that we should basically treat it like a second lynch, with people voting on who I should shoot. That way it's basically like we skip a night phase.

Hm...I'm willing to trust that you're town right now, but having a 1-shot dayvig as a scum roll could be there just to throw us off.

Scum or town, it doesn't matter as far as the vig goes, so long as we control the shot.

I like shooting today, even with the short time frame.  Like, if someone has zero posts, policy vig them.  (Except that person is probably town, because scum would post.)
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #93 on: June 09, 2015, 11:06:17 pm »

ADK, did you forget about the action window, or did you decide to claim anyway?

I decided to claim anyway. I think that shooting day one is a good enough idea on its own that doing it in such a short frame is acceptable (if we can get a consensus), and there are other factors that make using it right away a good idea.

Also, 1-shot day-vig sounds townie.  I mean, do you really think scum are going to have a role where they have to publicly kill someone during the day?

Wait, do you announce it in this thread or do you have a qt that you would post in?

I post it in the game thread, it's public when I do it.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #94 on: June 10, 2015, 12:12:26 am »

Also, why have some people not posted yet?

vote: Delirious Deleuze for one.

And because I haven't played with him  (I am pretty sure I haven't at least)
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #95 on: June 10, 2015, 12:26:19 am »

ADK, did you forget about the action window, or did you decide to claim anyway?

I decided to claim anyway. I think that shooting day one is a good enough idea on its own that doing it in such a short frame is acceptable (if we can get a consensus), and there are other factors that make using it right away a good idea.

Also, 1-shot day-vig sounds townie.  I mean, do you really think scum are going to have a role where they have to publicly kill someone during the day?

Wait, do you announce it in this thread or do you have a qt that you would post in?

I post it in the game thread, it's public when I do it.

I disagree with the Day 1 shot and think that we should save it.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #96 on: June 10, 2015, 12:29:27 am »

I disagree with the Day 1 shot and think that we should save it.

Because you are scum and are worried that he'll shoot you or your partners and you'd rather nightkill him to neutralize a town PR?

Or another reason?

dayvig vote mail-mi
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #97 on: June 10, 2015, 12:47:55 am »

Hmm dayvigging could be interesting. I guess I'm ok with it as long as its not me thats shot!
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #98 on: June 10, 2015, 12:48:13 am »

but would it be stronger if we used it on a later day with more info?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #99 on: June 10, 2015, 01:01:19 am »

but would it be stronger if we used it on a later day with more info?

If you think of it as just "we get an extra lynch", it isn't any strong or weaker depending on when we use it. And right away increases the chances that we'll get to use it at all.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #100 on: June 10, 2015, 01:07:43 am »

but would it be stronger if we used it on a later day with more info?

If you think of it as just "we get an extra lynch", it isn't any strong or weaker depending on when we use it. And right away increases the chances that we'll get to use it at all.

right but usually day 1 scum can manipulate town much easier then other days i feel. So i think if we use it day 1 there is a higher chance our extra lynch hits town.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #101 on: June 10, 2015, 01:31:07 am »

but would it be stronger if we used it on a later day with more info?

If you think of it as just "we get an extra lynch", it isn't any strong or weaker depending on when we use it. And right away increases the chances that we'll get to use it at all.

right but usually day 1 scum can manipulate town much easier then other days i feel. So i think if we use it day 1 there is a higher chance our extra lynch hits town.

If we knew how many scum there were, it would help in figuring this out.  But still, I don't think you are right.

In a 3 v 10 game, which is the f.ds norm, mafia is at its weakest on Day 1 in terms of wagon manipulation.  They're 3 of the 7 it takes to lynch.  On Day 2, if we mislynch and have a death, it's 6 to lynch and mafia is up to 50 percent.

I think the "extra" lynch coming on D1 is better, in a vacuum.

And again, it's a group decision, so it's not really a vig.  I think, given the claim, this is how we should use it.  Whether we use it on D1 or not, we'll see.  ADK can always make that call anyway.

The other way to use the dayvig is as a counterclaim cleaner -- that is, had he not claimed, and then later we had two people who were in opposition over a claim, ADK can just kill one to confirm the other.  That's off the table, as the power is out there.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #102 on: June 10, 2015, 03:30:38 am »

I disagree with the Day 1 shot and think that we should save it.

Because you are scum and are worried that he'll shoot you or your partners and you'd rather nightkill him to neutralize a town PR?

Or another reason?

dayvig vote mail-mi

This I sheep. We should shoot today, to dig out information is more valuable than keeping players alive. Sortof..

day-vig vote: mail-mi
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #103 on: June 10, 2015, 04:52:57 am »

If anyone were to flavor claim, ADK makes sense.  There seems to be a theory that role/alignment/flavor name may be tied together.  Easy way to test.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #104 on: June 10, 2015, 05:25:51 am »

Interesting things happens. Seems like I need to read some about flavor to make more sense out of my role.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N0 - D1 starts June 9)
« Reply #105 on: June 10, 2015, 06:14:52 am »

Vote Count 1.1

silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
Delirious Deleuze (3): ashersky, Ichimaru Gin, 2.71828.....
Ichimaru Gin (1): Awaclus
ashersky (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (2): Hydrad, hockeysemlan

Not Voting (7): chairs, EgorK, silverspawn, Ghacob, A Drowned Kernel, Lekkit, Delirious Deleuze

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, 8 am forum time.

day-vig vote: mail-mi

Note that, as per the rules, this counts as a valid vote.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #106 on: June 10, 2015, 06:30:35 am »

Ouch.

Unvote

My opinion stands, but we are naturally too much in RVS for it to be meaningful.. ehm..
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #107 on: June 10, 2015, 07:01:59 am »

I think I like using the dayvig today. It is basically an extra lynch, and even if we have to do it without much information, it should still be better than nothing.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #108 on: June 10, 2015, 07:17:43 am »

I guess one way we can look at it is its an extra lynch and then using that info hopefully will have a more meaningful actual day 1 lynch.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #109 on: June 10, 2015, 07:17:54 am »

so I'm in favor of it now.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #110 on: June 10, 2015, 12:09:53 pm »

The Day action window is now open. It closes at noon on June 12.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #111 on: June 10, 2015, 12:14:26 pm »

ADK, did you forget about the action window, or did you decide to claim anyway?

I decided to claim anyway. I think that shooting day one is a good enough idea on its own that doing it in such a short frame is acceptable (if we can get a consensus), and there are other factors that make using it right away a good idea.

Also, 1-shot day-vig sounds townie.  I mean, do you really think scum are going to have a role where they have to publicly kill someone during the day?

Wait, do you announce it in this thread or do you have a qt that you would post in?

I post it in the game thread, it's public when I do it.

I disagree with the Day 1 shot and think that we should save it.

So why do you want to save it?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #112 on: June 10, 2015, 12:17:29 pm »

I disagree with the Day 1 shot and think that we should save it.

Because you are scum and are worried that he'll shoot you or your partners and you'd rather nightkill him to neutralize a town PR?

Or another reason?

dayvig vote mail-mi

Because I think it would be more useful to use it on day 2 when we have a bit more info but it's still early in the game.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #113 on: June 10, 2015, 12:24:38 pm »

The whole flavor thing seems to me like one of those things that sounds good but isn't really helpful in practice. Presumably scum has fakeclaims.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #114 on: June 10, 2015, 01:10:16 pm »

I disagree with the Day 1 shot and think that we should save it.

Because you are scum and are worried that he'll shoot you or your partners and you'd rather nightkill him to neutralize a town PR?

Or another reason?

dayvig vote mail-mi

Because I think it would be more useful to use it on day 2 when we have a bit more info but it's still early in the game.

Problem is how likely ADK live until D2 in current conditions?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #115 on: June 10, 2015, 01:28:02 pm »

Hmm. I don't really like how Hydrad hedges on the dayvig thing. It may not necessarily be scummy for him, but it feels like he's overly concerned about it.

I'm pretty null on ADK for now, considering he has to post his target in the thread.

And...Delueze still hasn't posted.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #116 on: June 10, 2015, 01:31:38 pm »

I have some serious doubts about scum ADK making this claim.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #117 on: June 10, 2015, 02:17:56 pm »

Hi y'all! It's good to be back! I'm currently working and will be til a bit later in the afternoon.

In this short window, I'll just say I am for a vig shot. I think it'll give us extra information and also be decided by us. I doubt ADK will be alive tomorrow otherwise, too, and I think this is by something we want to be able to lose.

In lack of a more thorough read through, I'm by going to provide a vote until tonight, but I am getting a bad feeling from asherky and Hockey. I'll give a more detailed reading wig my thoughts tonight!

Sorry.

Also definitely not down for flavor claiming. At best it allows scum to get info and they can just lie to us if need be. I don't know if you all have a Buffy knowledge as large as mine, but lying would be fairly easy. Given that I think it's fairly irrelevant if ADK claims alone, because it doesn't make much of a change to the possibility of scum lying about their flavor role, also buffypedia is a thing to help those without flavor lie.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #118 on: June 10, 2015, 02:35:50 pm »

You are all missing the actual argument for flavor claiming.

My role cares about other people's flavor names.

I'll vigv0te: IG since that doesn't count as an actual vote.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #119 on: June 10, 2015, 03:01:49 pm »

You are all missing the actual argument for flavor claiming.

My role cares about other people's flavor names.

That's not an argument for flavor claiming, we don't know if chairs is town or not.

vigv0te: silverspawn
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #120 on: June 10, 2015, 03:08:51 pm »

You are all missing the actual argument for flavor claiming.

My role cares about other people's flavor names.

That's not an argument for flavor claiming, we don't know if chairs is town or not.

vigv0te: silverspawn

of course it is an argument, the chance that he's town is  > 50%
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #121 on: June 10, 2015, 03:10:27 pm »

Of course he's suggested it and then literally said nothing.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #122 on: June 10, 2015, 03:12:43 pm »

I'm not saying it's a good argument. I'm not pro flavor claiming. But Awaclus' argument was flawed.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #123 on: June 10, 2015, 03:18:34 pm »

Yeah. After M61, I am significantly more wary of chairs. Thing is, lurking is like the perfect meta to have when you're scum--it's exceedingly easy to emulate.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #124 on: June 10, 2015, 03:23:01 pm »

Though I tend to consider claiming propositions to be more of a town thing than scum thing.  Not because they're inherently townie, but rather because scum almost never does it.  The major exception being Ashersky in Village Mafia, but there was a setup broken kind of thing there.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #125 on: June 10, 2015, 03:37:21 pm »

I'm not saying it's a good argument. I'm not pro flavor claiming. But Awaclus' argument was flawed.

Well, obviously it's technically an argument, but it's an incredibly bad one. If chairs is scum, then not only do we give scum information about town PRs, we also enable a scum power.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #126 on: June 10, 2015, 05:04:19 pm »

After rereading the thread, here's my reads up to this point.

2.71828: I don't have much of a read yet here. From the few posts he has, he seems to lean town. He is against claiming in fear of it hurting us and gave a very similar read to mine on ADK. I think he's right that ADK wouldn't say that if he was town. Then again, he could be scum just trying to defend players and seem towny. That's a stretch though. For now I feel town.

Hydrad:
Hmm dayvigging could be interesting. I guess I'm ok with it as long as its not me thats shot!
This is odd, but it doesn't strike me as something scum would say.

right but usually day 1 scum can manipulate town much easier then other days i feel. So i think if we use it day 1 there is a higher chance our extra lynch hits town.

He he seems against the vig shot.

so I'm in favor of it now.

Then he seems to flip again.

That being said, I feel like he is just trying to hypothesis test the idea of the vig shot in a vacuum, which is why he switches and is also, in my experience, a very townie thing to do. He's not afraid to voice unpopular opinions just to test the waters. I also think that it's true that the information from the vig kill would better allow us to have a more meaningful D1 lynch, so overall I get a strong town vibe here.

3. chairs: I'm very skeptical of his claim, here. I know that he doesn't want to give away his powers completely in fear of scum, but I don't see why he would incorporate a portion of a claim in with asking for flavor names, then. Scum, then, still knows he has a PR and just doesn't know what PR. It makes him still a prime candidate for a lynch. It's, overall, very suspicious. I don't feel scum would claim unless it directly benefited them to do so, and a PR that works off people's flavor names seems like something scum would have to claim from which to be able to benefit. Even if he was town, I still think claiming, depending on his power, wouldn't give us enough benefit right away. Scum would get information from the flavor names and be able to kill him at night. Unless his power provides a direct benefit today, I don't see why it would help us to mass claim, especially because scum can lie about their flavor names.

I propose, then, that chairs either tells us his powers (if it provides a direct benefit today) and then we can discuss mass claiming (which I'm still against because I think the risk he is lying is far to great), or only ADK claims. If his power can do something from one name, great, it can do it here. We also have the possibility of testing ADK's name vs. his claimed role, and ADK is either scum or scum already knows he's town and his PR because of his claim so there's no chance of them gaining information.
 
EgorK:

Interesting things happens. Seems like I need to read some about flavor to make more sense out of my role.

I think everybody is missing this... It seems like a mild claim, without incentivizing discussion. Why would he put this if he was town? I feel only scum would have incentive to hint at a PR, since it does town no good to isolate themselves if they have a PR, but scum is able to avoid being lynched by saying that they have a PR and refer back to early tells of it. Although his posting is sparse (I can't judge), he feels slightly scummy.

Ichimaru Gin: Not trying to OMGUS, but you point me out for lurking three times in your 4 (or was it 5) posts. I don't know why you're so caught up on me when other people haven't posted at all, either, at the time you said that...? Then again, I don't think such baseless pointing out or trying to make a wagon is something scum would do, it seems to obvious. Overall, I feel very neutral. Perhaps slightly leaning scum, but not enough to really know.

Witherweaver: I feel his posts are for the most part sparse and non-committal. The biggest thing I get here is that he's opposed to chair's claim, although he seems to nudge against that at the end of page 5. Its way to early to really tell, but I don't think they're on a team. I feel like WW would be pushing for mass claim if they were both scum, be against it if he was town and chairs was scum, and be for it if he was scum and chairs was town (unless he somehow knew the power would be good today and he wouldn't have the chance to kill him at night). That being said, I think WW is town, for now.

silverspawn: I'm getting a strong town vibe here. Everything he's posted has been thought out and looking for the interest of the town. I was at first rather skeptical because of the end of the fifth page when he seems to be saying there was an argument for mass claiming (I generally don't think there is, unless the power is good and claimed, maybe even not then (see above)), but in rereading it feels like he was just hinting at the possibility that the power could be really good and effect the game now, which is how I feel. Overall I feel town here.


ashersky: After rereading, I lost my feeling about him. Originally I ran through the threads during a short lunch at work, but after rereading again in the comfort of my home, I feel I was rash. I originally felt weird about him because his comment against Mail-mi:

[quote author=ashersky link=topic=12917.msg498741#msg498741 date=1433910567

Because you are scum and are worried that he'll shoot you or your partners and you'd rather nightkill him to neutralize a town PR?

Or another reason?
[/quote]

I felt it was a little aggressive, but I realize it's not and simply pointing out that mail-mi really didn't defend his point here and just baselessly said something. I don't have much of a read here.


hockeysemlan: I'm still getting my strongest scum vibe here. He is barely active (although he has an excuse) but when he does appear, his post simply hops on a wagon against mail-mi and votes for him, but then quickly pulls it off and claims it's to RVS for the votes or information to be meaningful. I feel like this is one of the more scummy things to do, trying to play all sides, while still being in the background. I haven't played with him at all, so I could be wrong and this could just be him, but I'm worried. For now, I want to here more of his thoughts, so Vote: Hockey.


Ghacob: He's posted like twice during RVS and nothing serious... So I don't know.

A Drowned Kernel: I think I elaborated above, but I feel ADK is town. I don't think scum vig would have incentive to use the shot publicly, since they could hold onto it for the right moment to sneak in a win. The worst case here is that he is scum and is trying to push a mislynch and still appear townie because he let the town decide where to shoot, but even then I think that's a bit of a stretch and less strategic. That alone gives me the town vibe, but I'm still suspicious. I think we should intelligently use the shot and still be wary, but for now I feel he's town.

Awaclus: I get a town vibe here. We agree on a lot of points and I think pushing the vig shot for information and being against mass claiming in fear of scum!chairs or scum getting information is a usually townie trait.

Lekkit:
My role is somewhat connected to my flavor.

Another mini-claim which is suspicious, and he was against the vig shot because we don't have a long time period... but I think the information still outweighs the risk. I'm thinking slightly scum here.

mail-mi: Being so against the shot and wanting to hold it til D2 seems really scummy to me. I don't believe the vig will live through a night, and I think this just wastes our chances. At worst we get a bunch of information of a) who that person was, b) who pushed for the shoot, and c) information in the discussions on who to shoot. I don't see any reason a townie would be against this. vigv0te: mail-mi.

I think that covers my opinion on every issue. Sorry for the wall of text.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #127 on: June 10, 2015, 05:17:05 pm »

Ouch.

Unvote

My opinion stands, but we are naturally too much in RVS for it to be meaningful.. ehm..

I missed this. We are so out of RVS. vigv0te: hockey

wall of text

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #128 on: June 10, 2015, 05:20:43 pm »

Are we vigvoting instead of voting?

vigv0te: DeDe

This sounds like he's trying to hard to have a read on everyone.  Also reminds me quite a bit of when he was scum.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #129 on: June 10, 2015, 05:35:30 pm »

Are we vigvoting instead of voting?

Well, we have to decide on the vig target before the actual lynch, so it would make sense to vigv0te first.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #130 on: June 10, 2015, 05:40:11 pm »

Are we vigvoting instead of voting?

vigv0te: DeDe

This sounds like he's trying to hard to have a read on everyone.  Also reminds me quite a bit of when he was scum.

We're also on a pretty strict time limit, the window for day actions closes in <48 hours.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #131 on: June 10, 2015, 05:42:03 pm »

Are we vigvoting instead of voting?

vigv0te: DeDe

This sounds like he's trying to hard to have a read on everyone.  Also reminds me quite a bit of when he was scum.

maybe you just don't like it because you're a scum read? vigv0te: WW
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #132 on: June 10, 2015, 05:42:56 pm »

Are we vigvoting instead of voting?

vigv0te: DeDe

This sounds like he's trying to hard to have a read on everyone.  Also reminds me quite a bit of when he was scum.

maybe you just don't like it because you're a scum read? vigv0te: WW

Except he said he thought I was town.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #133 on: June 10, 2015, 05:46:43 pm »

Except he said he thought I was town.

oh uhm never mind.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #134 on: June 10, 2015, 05:50:28 pm »

I'm an IC to you now, right?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #135 on: June 10, 2015, 05:52:50 pm »

Pretty sure we've never seen town!DeDe.  He was mvp SKn his first game.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #136 on: June 10, 2015, 05:55:43 pm »

That wasn't his first game.. he had two or three town games before that.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #137 on: June 10, 2015, 06:01:32 pm »

Well I have played games as town, I did the wall of text thing then too, and actually every game o was town WW was scum. Just odd.

But yeah, WW, I obviously tried to get a read on everyone (I literally listed and read every person) --because I think critically reading every post and giving my thoughts is generally helpful. That being said, I still think you're town, but we should probably encourage people to have responses with a lot of content so that there is more to read and from which to figure out who scum is.

I put both of my votes in my post, but I definitely think vig vote should be first.

PS (2): yeah.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #138 on: June 10, 2015, 06:04:18 pm »

Pretty sure we've never seen town!DeDe.  He was mvp SKn his first game.

yeah, the SK

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QT of that game is hilarious, even without any context.
yes. oh wait, no.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #139 on: June 10, 2015, 06:04:37 pm »

look how good I am at inserting quotes.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #140 on: June 10, 2015, 06:08:19 pm »

Well I have played games as town, I did the wall of text thing then too, and actually every game o was town WW was scum. Just odd.

But yeah, WW, I obviously tried to get a read on everyone (I literally listed and read every person) --because I think critically reading every post and giving my thoughts is generally helpful. That being said, I still think you're town, but we should probably encourage people to have responses with a lot of content so that there is more to read and from which to figure out who scum is.

I put both of my votes in my post, but I definitely think vig vote should be first.

PS (2): yeah.

I did realize that me voting you for that could be read as discouraging people from posting with content, but, hey, I thought it was scummy so I voted. 

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #141 on: June 10, 2015, 06:14:27 pm »

I mean, okay? Good for you? I still think it's kind of discouraging people from long posts. Also very baseless seeing as I'm was literally attempting to read everybody as evidence from the fact that I... Read everybody. Also if you actually read my post a lot of the reads included the fact that I wasn't sure because of a lack of content.

Either way, I'm not going to defend myself for providing my thoughts on everyone in the game. If you think my reads were wrong, let me know and provide counter thoughts, but don't just say I'm scum because I'm attempting to provide thoughts and discussion.

Sorry if this is coming off as annoyed. I spent like an hour trying to actually provide meaningful discussion and you kind of ignored it. I'd appreciate your thoughts on my arguments so we can work together to try to figure out the best course of action, even if you think I'm scum. Keep your vote, but provide discussion.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #142 on: June 10, 2015, 06:21:34 pm »

Well there seems to be this perception that voting someone is the same as discouraging their playstyle, and that's not really how it works.  I want you to keep posting, especially if you're scum.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #143 on: June 10, 2015, 06:23:13 pm »

It's also possible that I'm confusing a style that's simply you with a style that's your scum play.  I don't remember you quite posting that way before your MU game, but I could very well be mistaken there.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #144 on: June 10, 2015, 06:29:04 pm »

I mean I'm fairly sure I did in the other games, but it's probably not memorable because I was vanilla town and died like D1/D2 both games.

That said, I think it your reason for voting for someone is that their play style... Like literally the fact I tried to read everyone... Is scummy, that does discourage it, because you're saying that scum would be the ones incentivized to provide analytic readings of everyone, and not regular town... Who I think more than anyone should provide long posts with lots of reads.

Either way, my arguments remain. I'd like to hear people's thoughts about the claiming options
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #145 on: June 10, 2015, 06:38:06 pm »

ADK, I say definitely shoot today.

vigv9te WW

unvote -- Not lynching DD today.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #146 on: June 10, 2015, 06:50:46 pm »

ADK, I say definitely shoot today.

vigv9te WW

unvote -- Not lynching DD today.

Wait why are you voting for WW?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #147 on: June 10, 2015, 06:53:51 pm »

whoa I've never seen you in a game before DeDe but now I want you in all of them! your town for today at least for effort alone.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #148 on: June 10, 2015, 07:05:52 pm »

ADK, I say definitely shoot today.

vigv9te WW

unvote -- Not lynching DD today.

Wait why are you voting for WW?

I think going after you for what he did was scummy.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #149 on: June 10, 2015, 07:09:01 pm »

I don't know what that means.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #150 on: June 10, 2015, 07:19:15 pm »

I don't know what that means.

Sorry, I don't know how to convert it to metric.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #151 on: June 10, 2015, 08:01:45 pm »

mail-mi: Being so against the shot and wanting to hold it til D2 seems really scummy to me. I don't believe the vig will live through a night, and I think this just wastes our chances. At worst we get a bunch of information of a) who that person was, b) who pushed for the shoot, and c) information in the discussions on who to shoot. I don't see any reason a townie would be against this. vigv0te: mail-mi.

I think that the vig should be saved for when we have more information. The argument is, do we use the vig to get info for the day 1 lynch, or use the day 1 lynch and nightkills to get info for the vig? I think the second option would be smarter, considering we only have a 1-shot.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #152 on: June 10, 2015, 08:25:48 pm »

mail-mi: Being so against the shot and wanting to hold it til D2 seems really scummy to me. I don't believe the vig will live through a night, and I think this just wastes our chances. At worst we get a bunch of information of a) who that person was, b) who pushed for the shoot, and c) information in the discussions on who to shoot. I don't see any reason a townie would be against this. vigv0te: mail-mi.

I think that the vig should be saved for when we have more information. The argument is, do we use the vig to get info for the day 1 lynch, or use the day 1 lynch and nightkills to get info for the vig? I think the second option would be smarter, considering we only have a 1-shot.

No, that's not the argument. The argument is, can we decide on a beneficial lynch in a short time, or do we just let scum kill ADK? I think the first option would be smarter, considering we won't have that one shot anymore if ADK gets killed before he uses it.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #153 on: June 10, 2015, 09:59:27 pm »

mail-mi: Being so against the shot and wanting to hold it til D2 seems really scummy to me. I don't believe the vig will live through a night, and I think this just wastes our chances. At worst we get a bunch of information of a) who that person was, b) who pushed for the shoot, and c) information in the discussions on who to shoot. I don't see any reason a townie would be against this. vigv0te: mail-mi.

I think that the vig should be saved for when we have more information. The argument is, do we use the vig to get info for the day 1 lynch, or use the day 1 lynch and nightkills to get info for the vig? I think the second option would be smarter, considering we only have a 1-shot.

No, that's not the argument. The argument is, can we decide on a beneficial lynch in a short time, or do we just let scum kill ADK? I think the first option would be smarter, considering we won't have that one shot anymore if ADK gets killed before he uses it.

I'm with Awaclus on this one.

ADK, shoot away.  People should at least get their thoughts down on who he shoots.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #154 on: June 10, 2015, 10:00:05 pm »

Also, for the record, I think I'd be tempted to shoot one of the players I can never figure out, or that would be dangerous as scum, or that we wouldn't miss as town.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #155 on: June 10, 2015, 10:06:57 pm »

I'm going to go with

VigV0te: Awaclus
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #156 on: June 10, 2015, 10:40:11 pm »

I definitely remember making a post on how I found DD's long post suspicious, but it could easily be explained by being a late town, but it could also be explained by scum deciding to try to look townie, culminating into a basically null read

vigv0te: mail mi
I'm not quite sure how you haven't gotten this?


chairs, just want to reiterate that given the current amount of information we have, I and others would be unwilling to reveal flavor information to you

Hydrad, care to elaborate on that?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #157 on: June 10, 2015, 11:19:02 pm »

I like vigv0te: Delerious Deleuze. His reads list feels extremely premature. He also greatly exaggerated the amount of posts where I commented on his lurking. It was exactly 2
posts.
He votes multiple people throughout the course of his huge post...the whole thing just feels kind of forced to me. Any huge reads list is going to be mostly fluff at this point in the game.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #158 on: June 10, 2015, 11:33:24 pm »

I definitely remember making a post on how I found DD's long post suspicious, but it could easily be explained by being a late town, but it could also be explained by scum deciding to try to look townie, culminating into a basically null read

vigv0te: mail mi
I'm not quite sure how you haven't gotten this?


chairs, just want to reiterate that given the current amount of information we have, I and others would be unwilling to reveal flavor information to you

Hydrad, care to elaborate on that?

gut feeling plus I kinda like mail-mi and at least want other people to consider options instead of how it feels its going and eveyrones just jumping on mail-mi for an easy vig with little info.

And I also don't like voting DD as that was a really good post with a bunch of info. I really dislike how hes being seen as scummy because of it.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #159 on: June 10, 2015, 11:55:44 pm »

I am feeling the WW lynch a little bit. But we do have some time at least, I'd like to get as much discussion in as possible before I shoot some one.

I'm going to go with

VigV0te: Awaclus

Any particular reason?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #160 on: June 10, 2015, 11:57:15 pm »

Also I don't get why people don't like Dede for posting a lot of reads right off that bat, especially since as he said a number of those reads were null. He's providing content. That's towny. Yeah it's fakeable as scum but he's jumping into the game and getting it going.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #161 on: June 10, 2015, 11:58:11 pm »

Also also ash seems to be encouraging me to shoot whoever the hell I want, which... seems a little sketchy to me.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #162 on: June 11, 2015, 12:04:36 am »

mail-mi: Being so against the shot and wanting to hold it til D2 seems really scummy to me. I don't believe the vig will live through a night, and I think this just wastes our chances. At worst we get a bunch of information of a) who that person was, b) who pushed for the shoot, and c) information in the discussions on who to shoot. I don't see any reason a townie would be against this. vigv0te: mail-mi.

I think that the vig should be saved for when we have more information. The argument is, do we use the vig to get info for the day 1 lynch, or use the day 1 lynch and nightkills to get info for the vig? I think the second option would be smarter, considering we only have a 1-shot.

No, that's not the argument. The argument is, can we decide on a beneficial lynch in a short time, or do we just let scum kill ADK? I think the first option would be smarter, considering we won't have that one shot anymore if ADK gets killed before he uses it.

This is RMM. Anything can happen at night. Redirects, doctors, scum want to kill someone else, etc. etc. Not saying that we can count on any of those things, but I think it would be beneficial to wait and wish that ADK hadn't claimed so that we could do just that.

...however, I am in the minority (and by "minority" I mean "minority of one") and it seems that the vig is inevitable. And...

Also also ash seems to be encouraging me to shoot whoever the hell I want, which... seems a little sketchy to me.

...I'm in agreement with that and will vigv0te: ashersky
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #163 on: June 11, 2015, 12:09:00 am »

I like vigv0te: Delerious Deleuze. His reads list feels extremely premature. He also greatly exaggerated the amount of posts where I commented on his lurking. It was exactly 2
posts.
He votes multiple people throughout the course of his huge post...the whole thing just feels kind of forced to me. Any huge reads list is going to be mostly fluff at this point in the game.

I feel you're greatly exaggerating my "great exaggeration." Yes I miscounted, it was 2 in 4 posts. That's still about (actually exactly) 50%.

Also... You say I vote for multiple people. If you read it again I vote for exactly too, specifically with one as vig and one as regular. I think there's a wee bit of a difference.

Of course it will feel forced, but that doesn't mean we should try to read into posts. I still am of he opinion that adding thoughts will allow for more discussion/interactions/fodder to get reads on and use in the future. You've literally ignored everything I said and every point I made in favor of a generic ad hom attack of it feeling "forced." If you really feel that way, how about you contrabute to the discussion and add your thoughts on what I say that specifically seems scummy besides merely defending yourself and then generalizing the other portion of the post... Like it was a very long post with specific thoughts on everyone.

And then if it still feels forced say what parts I'm wrong on so we can all work together to figure out who scum is.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #164 on: June 11, 2015, 12:12:32 am »

Also also ash seems to be encouraging me to shoot whoever the hell I want, which... seems a little sketchy to me.

I think it's sketchy to go for anyone, but I think he more just wants a vig shot today because there was discussion about not having one at all. If the option is someone at all vs no one, I would feel this way because of the info we get. Not to say it should be anyone. We should definitely discuss further, but I don't feel he's all that sketchy.

Also, how do people feel about the mini-claims I pointed out before.
I find those hella sketchy. I honestly see no incentive for town to say something like that.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #165 on: June 11, 2015, 12:21:05 am »

I like vigv0te: Delerious Deleuze. His reads list feels extremely premature. He also greatly exaggerated the amount of posts where I commented on his lurking. It was exactly 2
posts.
He votes multiple people throughout the course of his huge post...the whole thing just feels kind of forced to me. Any huge reads list is going to be mostly fluff at this point in the game.

I feel you're greatly exaggerating my "great exaggeration." Yes I miscounted, it was 2 in 4 posts. That's still about (actually exactly) 50%.

Also... You say I vote for multiple people. If you read it again I vote for exactly too, specifically with one as vig and one as regular. I think there's a wee bit of a difference.

Of course it will feel forced, but that doesn't mean we should try to read into posts. I still am of he opinion that adding thoughts will allow for more discussion/interactions/fodder to get reads on and use in the future. You've literally ignored everything I said and every point I made in favor of a generic ad hom attack of it feeling "forced." If you really feel that way, how about you contrabute to the discussion and add your thoughts on what I say that specifically seems scummy besides merely defending yourself and then generalizing the other portion of the post... Like it was a very long post with specific thoughts on everyone.

And then if it still feels forced say what parts I'm wrong on so we can all work together to figure out who scum is.
Funny.
I don't like you saying "of course it will feel forced". So you're admitting to forcing it?
Please don't try to act like people are discouraging contribution or are against reads posts--those are clearly good things. I mean, the stuff you say "you're still of the opinion of" comprises pretty much the entire game. However, having a huge post with detailed reads on people is not so great this early in the game.
Me saying it feels "forced" e.g. artificial is not an ad homimen attack--why would you try to frame it that way? You're trying to play up how townie you are in a way that doesn't feel natural to me. Nothing wrong with me expressing that. I don't like that that you immediately default to trying to defend yourself with something like this either.

Oh. But I am adding to the discussion. And I have a growing scumread on you. Looks to me like you're trying to shutdown discussion and put out fires created by your reads post which you expected would get you town credit.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #166 on: June 11, 2015, 12:24:52 am »

To be fair, you do have some content in that reads post that is good. I will address some of that in a bit.
However, you do also draw some--necessarily broad because of how early in the game it is--conclusions about people that aren't all that helpful.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #167 on: June 11, 2015, 12:43:51 am »

Also also ash seems to be encouraging me to shoot whoever the hell I want, which... seems a little sketchy to me.

I think it's sketchy to go for anyone, but I think he more just wants a vig shot today because there was discussion about not having one at all. If the option is someone at all vs no one, I would feel this way because of the info we get. Not to say it should be anyone. We should definitely discuss further, but I don't feel he's all that sketchy.

Also, how do people feel about the mini-claims I pointed out before.
I find those hella sketchy. I honestly see no incentive for town to say something like that.

I think there's even less incentive for scum to. It might be poor town play but it's not necessarily scum play.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #168 on: June 11, 2015, 02:36:14 am »

DD is right that Hydrad's odd nonclaim went by with nary a whisper.

What's the deal, Hydrad?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #169 on: June 11, 2015, 02:37:28 am »

Also, fairly certain mail-mi is scum.  He hasn't played in awhile and he has the itchy trigger finger of a guilty henchman.  I currently imagine him wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #170 on: June 11, 2015, 02:51:42 am »

DD is right that Hydrad's odd nonclaim went by with nary a whisper.

What's the deal, Hydrad?

oh that doesn't really mean anything. Basically I just didn't want to die before the game really even started thats all i meant there.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #171 on: June 11, 2015, 03:06:59 am »

Ouch.

Unvote

My opinion stands, but we are naturally too much in RVS for it to be meaningful.. ehm..

I missed this. We are so out of RVS. vigv0te: hockey


Wait, fine, now we are. Not when I wrote it and went away all day yesterday. Now has everything changed and I trying to keep up the best I can.

Vigv0te: mail-mi

I don't like what he tries to do. We cannot trust the night actions to protect anyone. We need the vig today or risk it to be useless.

I don't know how to treat the vote from DeDe. His reasoning is pretty legit, I've been away and why not go for the inactive players, but it's no real case and he probably realize that soon. This is a hard game for new players and I hope that can be an understandable reason to be a little more lurking. I try to provide content as soon as I can. but in the start I just want to to try to not mess things up. Hope that's okey.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #172 on: June 11, 2015, 08:30:01 am »

I don't really buy the 'Dede's posts are forced' thing. Does scum really open by making a thorough reread and posting detailed opinions about everyone, ensuring a lot of meaningful discussion to come in the crucial time window where we have to decide whom to shoot?

Eh, maybe they do. I mean, it's basically how I tried to played fish mafia. But I still think giving scum points for it without meta arguments is a big stretch. In fact it makes me want to vigv0te: IG (I like that everyone just started using my made up format)
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #173 on: June 11, 2015, 08:31:16 am »

Also, fairly certain mail-mi is scum.  He hasn't played in awhile and he has the itchy trigger finger of a guilty henchman.  I currently imagine him wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'fairly certain' is a pretty bold claim for day 1. is it like 50% or like 90%? Also, why exactly do you think it? just because he doesn't want the vig to shoot?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #174 on: June 11, 2015, 09:11:28 am »

Also, fairly certain mail-mi is scum.  He hasn't played in awhile and he has the itchy trigger finger of a guilty henchman.  I currently imagine him wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'fairly certain' is a pretty bold claim for day 1. is it like 50% or like 90%? Also, why exactly do you think it? just because he doesn't want the vig to shoot?

Like, 45%. 

It has nothing to do with the cig, actually.  It's his jumpiness, like he's worried he'll make a mistake.  He also redirects a lot...like, very often.  His posts move the topic of conversation purposefully.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't feel like the mail-mi of old.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #175 on: June 11, 2015, 09:29:33 am »

I don't really buy the 'Dede's posts are forced' thing. Does scum really open by making a thorough reread and posting detailed opinions about everyone, ensuring a lot of meaningful discussion to come in the crucial time window where we have to decide whom to shoot?

Eh, maybe they do. I mean, it's basically how I tried to played fish mafia. But I still think giving scum points for it without meta arguments is a big stretch. In fact it makes me want to vigv0te: IG (I like that everyone just started using my made up format)

I don't follow why everyone thinks it's so townie.  It sounds like people are just applying "lots of text => content => townie".  Almost everything saying sounds to me like neutral and nonstatements.  "This happened, then this happend, which could be this.  But on the other hand that.  Let's say {town, scum, null} for now".   Yes, he has null reads, but why do you need to say all that much stuff to say there are null reads?  Most feel completely arbitrary:

Quote
Lekkit:
Quote from: Lekkit on June 09, 2015, 04:11:49 pm
My role is somewhat connected to my flavor.

Another mini-claim which is suspicious, and he was against the vig shot because we don't have a long time period... but I think the information still outweighs the risk. I'm thinking slightly scum here.

I don't understand how DeDe is is drawing anything from this; it seems entirely alignment agnostic.  It sounds like "hm, I need a scum read, let's toss it in this slot".

Quote
2.71828: I don't have much of a read yet here. From the few posts he has, he seems to lean town. He is against claiming in fear of it hurting us and gave a very similar read to mine on ADK. I think he's right that ADK wouldn't say that if he was town. Then again, he could be scum just trying to defend players and seem towny. That's a stretch though. For now I feel town.

Why does defending players lead to towniness?  I think you could just as easily conclude "scum" here.

Quote
Hydrad:
Quote from: Hydrad on June 10, 2015, 12:47:55 am
Hmm dayvigging could be interesting. I guess I'm ok with it as long as its not me thats shot!
This is odd, but it doesn't strike me as something scum would say.

Quote from: Hydrad on June 10, 2015, 01:07:43 am
right but usually day 1 scum can manipulate town much easier then other days i feel. So i think if we use it day 1 there is a higher chance our extra lynch hits town.

He he seems against the vig shot.

Quote from: Hydrad on June 10, 2015, 07:17:54 am
so I'm in favor of it now.

Then he seems to flip again.

That being said, I feel like he is just trying to hypothesis test the idea of the vig shot in a vacuum, which is why he switches and is also, in my experience, a very townie thing to do. He's not afraid to voice unpopular opinions just to test the waters. I also think that it's true that the information from the vig kill would better allow us to have a more meaningful D1 lynch, so overall I get a strong town vibe here.

I mainly don't understand the "This is odd, but it doesn't strike me as something scum would say."  It sounds like something anyone would say, town or scum.  I also don't see "He's not afraid to voice unpopular opinions just to test the waters."  Also "I also think that it's true that the information from the vig kill would better allow us to have a more meaningful D1 lynch," is obvious and a statement that has nothing to do with this game or the player's alignments---it's a setup/theory discussion---so why does it make him townie?

Okay I don't want to keep going and make this huge.. Chairs has two big paragraphs that seems to not say anything... he thinks EgorK soft claiming a PR is suspcious, because...?  This is RMM, the chance EgorK has a role as town or scum is pretty high.  He says ADK is town, which I agree, but that's kind of an empty statement.  Plus it's a "town but hey we should be suspicious and make sure we all act very towny in regards to his ability" kind of statement.  I don't really buy his argument for wanting to lynch Mail-Mi.  What's the scum narrative for wanting to save the shot, exactly?  Because he's really afraid he'll be the one to get shot and plans to kill him tonight, when he's probably sure there are some kinds of protective roles?  Doesn't seem to fit. 

However:

Quote
hockeysemlan: I'm still getting my strongest scum vibe here. He is barely active (although he has an excuse) but when he does appear, his post simply hops on a wagon against mail-mi and votes for him, but then quickly pulls it off and claims it's to RVS for the votes or information to be meaningful. I feel like this is one of the more scummy things to do, trying to play all sides, while still being in the background. I haven't played with him at all, so I could be wrong and this could just be him, but I'm worried. For now, I want to here more of his thoughts, so Vote: Hockey

This I actually think sounds more townie. 

His responses since his post haven't seemed scummy, either.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #176 on: June 11, 2015, 09:30:13 am »

Also, fairly certain mail-mi is scum.  He hasn't played in awhile and he has the itchy trigger finger of a guilty henchman.  I currently imagine him wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

This sounds like town.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #177 on: June 11, 2015, 09:36:08 am »

Also also ash seems to be encouraging me to shoot whoever the hell I want, which... seems a little sketchy to me.

I think it's sketchy to go for anyone, but I think he more just wants a vig shot today because there was discussion about not having one at all. If the option is someone at all vs no one, I would feel this way because of the info we get. Not to say it should be anyone. We should definitely discuss further, but I don't feel he's all that sketchy.

Also, how do people feel about the mini-claims I pointed out before.
I find those hella sketchy. I honestly see no incentive for town to say something like that.

Well I kind of addressed this, but:

I don't think EgorK's was sketchy.  Well, maybe sketchy in that it's all he's said so far.

Chairs: I trust that if Chairs thought it was beneficial for him to claim, he would.  Actually I would be interesting in hearing what Chairs has to say about it. 
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #178 on: June 11, 2015, 09:39:49 am »

Ichimaru Gin going all-out hedgehog when Delirious Deleuze accused him of singling him out for lurking seems like defensive scum to me. I doubt it's a heavy case of tunnel vision. I've been there as the paranoid scum, and I think that's what this is.

Vigv0te: Ichimaru Gin

Regardless of how forced DD's reads are. They are still something to look at. Opinions are what we have to go on. I think that regardless of how strong the reads are. It's what makes me want to lynch him the least out of the guys we've heard from.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #179 on: June 11, 2015, 10:25:12 am »

Also, fairly certain mail-mi is scum.  He hasn't played in awhile and he has the itchy trigger finger of a guilty henchman.  I currently imagine him wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'fairly certain' is a pretty bold claim for day 1. is it like 50% or like 90%? Also, why exactly do you think it? just because he doesn't want the vig to shoot?

Like, 45%. 

It has nothing to do with the cig, actually.  It's his jumpiness, like he's worried he'll make a mistake.  He also redirects a lot...like, very often.  His posts move the topic of conversation purposefully.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't feel like the mail-mi of old.

Maybe because I've grown up a bit and am less sheepy and am starting to get an opinion of my own. And also it's my first game back so I'm a little unsure and hedgey.

I'll be gone for the rest of the day mostly, so I'm going to claim now so y'all don't vig me. I am Cordelia chase, and I'm a messenger/oracle/something else that I think is unwise to claim this early.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #180 on: June 11, 2015, 11:02:17 am »

FYI, Cordelia is a good choice for the "clearly good character who is actually bad" role in this flavor setting.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #181 on: June 11, 2015, 11:33:23 am »

Any chance for vig vote count? I'd do it myself, but a little bit busy now. Anyway, Vigv0te: mail-mi for now

IG stands out as scummy as well
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #182 on: June 11, 2015, 11:38:52 am »

FYI, Cordelia is a good choice for the "clearly good character who is actually bad" role in this flavor setting.

Well it's not, because I am indeed town.

IG seems to be getting a little bit of tunnel vision on DD, and he seems a bit scummy, so I'm going to vigv0te: IG
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #183 on: June 11, 2015, 11:55:23 am »

generic ad hom attack of it feeling "forced."
Why is everyone ignoring this? This is probably the #1 thing that makes me think DeDe is scum right now. It's such a clear attempt to misinterpret what I was actually saying.

That, and now load of people are defending him and attacking me for having a scumread on him. Yeah, I'm sticking to my guns--I don't care how unpopular it is. I'm trusting my gut on this one. I've gotten burned too many times going along with others.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #184 on: June 11, 2015, 12:05:25 pm »

This backlash is intriguing to me. Do we just fundamentally disagree about what is scummy/townie behavior?

Ichimaru Gin going all-out hedgehog
What does this mean?
Are you referrring to my qualifying post that not all of DeDe's reads list was unhelpful?
Yet you're simultaneously accusing me of having "tunnel-vision" or unable to see other ways of interpreting DeDe's actions--sounds pretty contradictory to me.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #185 on: June 11, 2015, 12:10:36 pm »

What I'm saying is that he pointed out something in your behaviour that you didn't like. And you've been defending against it, pointing fingers back at him ever since.

Now that you mention it, what was it that you did agree on that you would come back to later?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #186 on: June 11, 2015, 12:12:57 pm »

Also, I'm going to Germany tomorrow and have some stuff to do tonight. I probably won't be able to be active again until sunday evening or more realistically monday.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #187 on: June 11, 2015, 12:13:39 pm »

I swear I've tried starting a post for over a page of content now
unv0te
I don't see scum mail mi being this confident
their actions reminded me of town!me, but I'm new. That being said, as they said, this is their first game back so back down to basically null I guess


ashersky, you're really pushing hard on this
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #188 on: June 11, 2015, 12:15:18 pm »

What I'm saying is that he pointed out something in your behaviour that you didn't like. And you've been defending against it, pointing fingers back at him ever since.

Now that you mention it, what was it that you did agree on that you would come back to later?

Specifically, I thought this was pretty good.
chairs: I'm very skeptical of his claim, here. I know that he doesn't want to give away his powers completely in fear of scum, but I don't see why he would incorporate a portion of a claim in with asking for flavor names, then. Scum, then, still knows he has a PR and just doesn't know what PR. It makes him still a prime candidate for a lynch. It's, overall, very suspicious. I don't feel scum would claim unless it directly benefited them to do so, and a PR that works off people's flavor names seems like something scum would have to claim from which to be able to benefit. Even if he was town, I still think claiming, depending on his power, wouldn't give us enough benefit right away. Scum would get information from the flavor names and be able to kill him at night. Unless his power provides a direct benefit today, I don't see why it would help us to mass claim, especially because scum can lie about their flavor names.
It seems like he's really considering all the options here in a pretty townie fashion. It's good to be cautious with stuff like this--speaking as someone who is normally overeager to claim. Interestingly, WW skipped this part when he was addressing DeDe's post. I thought this was the most solid part of the reads list. Chairs still hasn't posted once since then I don't think--maybe he's just waiting it out?

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #189 on: June 11, 2015, 12:18:24 pm »

I don't buy that analysis.. I don't think scum!Chairs is any more likely to say what he did than town!Chairs is.  I actually, I think it's more likely the other way.  Even if a mass flavor claim is a bad idea, I don't think that makes Chairs scummy for asking what people think about it. 
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #190 on: June 11, 2015, 12:19:53 pm »

Yep. Chairs only has one post. This.

My role cares about other people's flavor names. How does everyone feel about the benefits/drawbacks to flavor name claiming?
I might actually prefer chairs...
Even with his lurking though, it seems like people never want to lynch him. He barely got any suspicion in M61 as scum.

PPE: WW In a vacuum, I might agree with you. Chairs literally hasn't posted anything since then though. He's not VLA is he?

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #191 on: June 11, 2015, 12:23:22 pm »

chairs has a last active of 2 days ago, when he last posted. Does that count mean that he hasn't been online since then?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #192 on: June 11, 2015, 12:23:43 pm »

Yeah, it's the big problem with heavy lurkers.  Lynching provides little information and it feels like you're not really doing anything.  Letting them live makes it hard to figure things out late game. 

Prod: Chairs
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #193 on: June 11, 2015, 12:24:27 pm »

chairs has a last active of 2 days ago, when he last posted. Does that count mean that he hasn't been online since then?
I didn't check his profile, but yeah, that's what it means. Hmm. He could just be busy IRL then I guess.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #194 on: June 11, 2015, 12:29:33 pm »

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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #195 on: June 11, 2015, 12:29:54 pm »

Any chance for vig vote count? I'd do it myself, but a little bit busy now. Anyway, Vigv0te: mail-mi for now

sure

Vote Count 1.2

Awaclus (1): Hydrad
silverspawn (1): Awaclus
Ichimaru Gin (3): silverspawn, Lekkit, mail-mi
Delirious Deleuze (1): Witherweaver
mail-mi (3): Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan, Egork
hockeysemlan (1): A Drowned Kernel

Not Voting (5): Ichimaru Gin, e, chairs, Ghacob, ashersky


and ash is voting for WW if you count the syntax

no guarantees
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #196 on: June 11, 2015, 12:32:05 pm »

I thought my vigv0te was still on DeDe. Or is this a regular votecount?

Interestingly, it seems like vigv0tes have temporarily replaced normal votes since we're treating the dayvig like a second lynch almost. And...I keep forgetting how many people are in this game!

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #197 on: June 11, 2015, 12:33:46 pm »

Vote Count 1.2

silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
Delirious Deleuze (2): Ichimaru Gin, 2.71828.....
Ichimaru Gin (1): Awaclus
ashersky (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (1): Hydrad

Not Voting (9): chairs, EgorK, silverspawn, Ghacob, A Drowned Kernel, Lekkit, Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan, ashersky

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, noon forum time.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 12:34:57 pm by faust »
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #198 on: June 11, 2015, 12:33:52 pm »

I thought my vigv0te was still on DeDe. Or is this a regular votecount?

Interestingly, it seems like vigv0tes have temporarily replaced normal votes since we're treating the dayvig like a second lynch almost. And...I keep forgetting how many people are in this game!

nono it's a vig count. your post just wasn't counted because you misspelled his name.

that's why I said no guarantees :P
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #199 on: June 11, 2015, 12:34:41 pm »

It was supposed to be "vig vote count," not "vote count 1.2"
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #200 on: June 11, 2015, 12:36:54 pm »

So, WW's points about DD's list read sincere. IG's not so much. Still like my vote where it is.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #201 on: June 11, 2015, 12:37:44 pm »

I thought my vigv0te was still on DeDe. Or is this a regular votecount?

Interestingly, it seems like vigv0tes have temporarily replaced normal votes since we're treating the dayvig like a second lynch almost. And...I keep forgetting how many people are in this game!

nono it's a vig count. your post just wasn't counted because you misspelled his name.

that's why I said no guarantees :P
I just realized I don't know how to spell Delirous.
You're harsh silver  :(

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #202 on: June 11, 2015, 12:38:25 pm »

Damn. I still can't get it right!
Let me try slowly.

Delirious.
Whew.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #203 on: June 11, 2015, 12:38:48 pm »

So, WW's points about DD's list read sincere. IG's not so much. Still like my vote where it is.
AD HOMINEM ATTACK!
/s

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #204 on: June 11, 2015, 12:42:54 pm »

Seriously. Why are people still ignoring DeDe saying that? It's such an underhanded way of trying to defend yourself.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #205 on: June 11, 2015, 12:48:13 pm »

You're harsh silver  :(

it's not me! I generate all my vote counts with a program.

I also just spent over 10 minutes trying to figure out why mali-mi wasn't recognized before I realized that it's because there is no mali-mi
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #206 on: June 11, 2015, 12:49:23 pm »

You're harsh silver  :(

it's not me! I generate all my vote counts with a program.

I also just spent over 10 minutes trying to figure out why mali-mi wasn't recognized before I realized that it's because there is no mali-mi
ok. That's pretty cool actually.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #207 on: June 11, 2015, 12:50:25 pm »

Seriously. Why are people still ignoring DeDe saying that? It's such an underhanded way of trying to defend yourself.

because I don't feel like it's such a big deal. He made that comment in response to this:

I like vigv0te: Delerious Deleuze. His reads list feels extremely premature. He also greatly exaggerated the amount of posts where I commented on his lurking. It was exactly 2
posts.
He votes multiple people throughout the course of his huge post...the whole thing just feels kind of forced to me. Any huge reads list is going to be mostly fluff at this point in the game.

you do ignore everything he says and just says he feels forced, so...
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #208 on: June 11, 2015, 12:51:45 pm »

Still not Ad Hominem.

Please. That's not just a catch-all for "I don't like this".

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #209 on: June 11, 2015, 12:57:05 pm »

Seriously. Why are people still ignoring DeDe saying that? It's such an underhanded way of trying to defend yourself.

He's wrong, but wrong isn't the same as scummy.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #210 on: June 11, 2015, 01:11:29 pm »

Still not Ad Hominem.

Please. That's not just a catch-all for "I don't like this".

i actually don't know what ad hominem means, so I just ignored that part
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #211 on: June 11, 2015, 01:14:07 pm »

Still not Ad Hominem.

Please. That's not just a catch-all for "I don't like this".

i actually don't know what ad hominem means, so I just ignored that part
DeDe said that my comment about his reads being forced was "attacking him as a person" basically. That's what Ad Hominem means.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #212 on: June 11, 2015, 01:15:11 pm »

Still not Ad Hominem.

Please. That's not just a catch-all for "I don't like this".

i actually don't know what ad hominem means, so I just ignored that part
DeDe said that my comment about his reads being forced was "attacking him as a person" basically. That's what Ad Hominem means.

well I agree that you didn't attack him as a person. But I fail to see how he is scummy because of it.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #213 on: June 11, 2015, 01:17:33 pm »

Well...if he actually believes that (or pretends to believe it). How is that not scummy?
It's trying to take things to an emotional or personal level that just isn't there--and basically absolving himself of having to provide a real defense.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #214 on: June 11, 2015, 01:18:16 pm »

Well, he's trying to discredit what Ichi said without addressing what Ichi said, which is ironic considering that's what he's claiming Ichi was doing.

But it's not like town does argue in that kind of manner as well.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #215 on: June 11, 2015, 01:21:49 pm »

Well, he's trying to discredit what Ichi said without addressing what Ichi said, which is ironic considering that's what he's claiming Ichi was doing.

But it's not like town does argue in that kind of manner as well.
Thank you.

I agree that it's not something that only scum would do. DeDe hasn't been around in a little while either. So guess we'll see what he has to say when he returns.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #216 on: June 11, 2015, 01:31:35 pm »

Okay. I read up on the last 2 days of posts (long story re: RL busyness, but by Wednesday I should be a regular poster at least on weekdays). I now agree that my desire to flavor claim should probably be negated by the benefit it could provide scum.

I also agree I should really try to lurk less. It was unintentionally beneficial in M61, but obviously continued lurking after that win should ultimately lead to my demise (regardless of my alignment) in future games.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #217 on: June 11, 2015, 01:33:03 pm »

Ash is scum. I'm like, 60% confident on that already.

Also, I'm not "hinting I have a PR". This is RMM. Who said I was hinting at a PR? I think we should vig/lynch that person, because THIS IS RMM WE ALL HAVE PRs.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #218 on: June 11, 2015, 01:34:18 pm »

[Snipped]

This is the post I was talking about.

vote: Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #219 on: June 11, 2015, 01:35:10 pm »

Chairs is totes town for me today.

Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #220 on: June 11, 2015, 01:48:12 pm »

Ash is scum. I'm like, 60% confident on that already.

Also, I'm not "hinting I have a PR". This is RMM. Who said I was hinting at a PR? I think we should vig/lynch that person, because THIS IS RMM WE ALL HAVE PRs.

I did not know we all had PRs. That makes a lot more sense. This is like my third or fourth game and I've been gone for almost a year. Sorry. Also I didn't say you were hinting... If you look at my post that was in reference to two other people who made sideways comments about having a Pr. It's fairly clear you weren't hinting since you flatly said you had a power......
And can you please explain why you think ash is scum instead of just saying you think that. It helps no one to just say that with no reasons why. Especially when you say you're that assured and vote somewhere else.


Ichi: I misspoke. Not ad hom, just literally unwarranted... Seeing as you said nothing except defend yourself by saying I'm "greatly exaggerating" when I was one off on my count..... And then said I seemed forced without providing reasons beyond the fact I was one off on my count for you. Not an ad hom, but you know, a shallow read with no evidence. After that fact people started providing content (see WW) which I'll respond to later, at work now, but you still seem to be jumping on me for nothing.

And yes I said it probably would seem forced. When you try to use inference and close reading to et information and reads it probably will seem like you're reading into something. As you said, the game basically is made off of opinions. At least I'm trying to base mine in evidence.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #221 on: June 11, 2015, 01:52:31 pm »

I mean it helps no one just to have said:

"I think hockey and mail-I'm are scum. Now, I'm beginning to think ichi is scum, and have a cautious look at WW."

Because that provides no info.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #222 on: June 11, 2015, 01:54:03 pm »

Ash is scum. I'm like, 60% confident on that already.

Also, I'm not "hinting I have a PR". This is RMM. Who said I was hinting at a PR? I think we should vig/lynch that person, because THIS IS RMM WE ALL HAVE PRs.

I did not know we all had PRs. That makes a lot more sense. This is like my third or fourth game and I've been gone for almost a year. Sorry. Also I didn't say you were hinting... If you look at my post that was in reference to two other people who made sideways comments about having a Pr. It's fairly clear you weren't hinting since you flatly said you had a power......
And can you please explain why you think ash is scum instead of just saying you think that. It helps no one to just say that with no reasons why. Especially when you say you're that assured and vote somewhere else.


Ichi: I misspoke. Not ad hom, just literally unwarranted... Seeing as you said nothing except defend yourself by saying I'm "greatly exaggerating" when I was one off on my count..... And then said I seemed forced without providing reasons beyond the fact I was one off on my count for you. Not an ad hom, but you know, a shallow read with no evidence. After that fact people started providing content (see WW) which I'll respond to later, at work now, but you still seem to be jumping on me for nothing.

And yes I said it probably would seem forced. When you try to use inference and close reading to et information and reads it probably will seem like you're reading into something. As you said, the game basically is made off of opinions. At least I'm trying to base mine in evidence.
Dude. Why so snippy? Why do you have a problem with me saying your reads are forced when you literally say "yes my reads are forced"?
Unwarranted! Dude, I'm calling you out and you don't like it; plain and simple. I can say whatever I like within the bounds of civility (which everyone is well within).

"At least I base mine in evidence". Dude. What evidence? Lackluster, spare evidence that we have right now. You still seem very slippery to me. I've discussed other subjects than you and have also provided content--but of course you'd pretend otherwise.
I like real vote: DeDe now if I wasn't already.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #223 on: June 11, 2015, 01:58:58 pm »

Ultimately, it's hard for me to explain why I'm 60% confident ashersky is scum right now, which is why I just said it.  I generally play (when I'm active and not just lurking too hard for words) by providing gut reads that I (usually) can't explain, but that's how I roll. As it happens, I think I do a pretty decent job of it, when I don't get sidetracked by trying to justify my reads with evidence instead of just saying "This is what I'm feeling right now".

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #224 on: June 11, 2015, 02:02:25 pm »

Yes, because at that time you didn't provide evidence at all. If he evidence is sparse now that doesn't mean we should use it. You seem to be of the opinion that because of that we just shouldn't try to provide evidence.

And no, actually, it was after my post that you started to provide actual content. So, at that time, you were just making evidence-less claims... Which, remember, are still worse than using sparse evidence. If I'm snippy it's because you're jumping down my throat without provide evidence why besides a feeling you have that a portion of my comments were forced... Because you even say after that that portions of it were still good. And if I said, "of course it seems forced" maybe read on beyond the first sentence... That's because evidence is sparse now, something you seem to be well aware of, so that indeed I had to <i>read into them</i> to try to get info. I'm sorry.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #225 on: June 11, 2015, 02:03:04 pm »

Ultimately, it's hard for me to explain why I'm 60% confident ashersky is scum right now, which is why I just said it.  I generally play (when I'm active and not just lurking too hard for words) by providing gut reads that I (usually) can't explain, but that's how I roll. As it happens, I think I do a pretty decent job of it, when I don't get sidetracked by trying to justify my reads with evidence instead of just saying "This is what I'm feeling right now".

Okay, thanks for saying it at least.

I try to provide reasons. I guess we're different. That's fine.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #226 on: June 11, 2015, 02:20:04 pm »

<i>read into them</i> to try to get info. I'm sorry.

teh scumzlipz
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #227 on: June 11, 2015, 02:22:25 pm »

If we didn't all have personal QT's, this might even be a real one.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #228 on: June 11, 2015, 02:26:11 pm »

Ultimately, it's hard for me to explain why I'm 60% confident ashersky is scum right now, which is why I just said it.  I generally play (when I'm active and not just lurking too hard for words) by providing gut reads that I (usually) can't explain, but that's how I roll. As it happens, I think I do a pretty decent job of it, when I don't get sidetracked by trying to justify my reads with evidence instead of just saying "This is what I'm feeling right now".

it would be breathtakingly amazing if you could actually predict that someone is scum with 60% on day 1, much less ashersky.

I have my doubts though.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #229 on: June 11, 2015, 02:41:48 pm »

Ultimately, it's hard for me to explain why I'm 60% confident ashersky is scum right now, which is why I just said it.  I generally play (when I'm active and not just lurking too hard for words) by providing gut reads that I (usually) can't explain, but that's how I roll. As it happens, I think I do a pretty decent job of it, when I don't get sidetracked by trying to justify my reads with evidence instead of just saying "This is what I'm feeling right now".

it would be breathtakingly amazing if you could actually predict that someone is scum with 60% on day 1, much less ashersky.

I have my doubts though.

Well, I went ahead and put this in my personal QT as my reasoning, and I'll go ahead and throw it in here. scum!ash feels more likely to try to shotgun on D1, whereas town!ash really seems to tunnel like a madman on D1. To me, ash feels more shotgunny.

I don't know if that makes sense or not, but that's what I'm triggering off of for him.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #230 on: June 11, 2015, 02:49:32 pm »

Except he's tunneling Mail-Mi...
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #231 on: June 11, 2015, 02:55:05 pm »

Yes, because at that time you didn't provide evidence at all. If he evidence is sparse now that doesn't mean we should use it. You seem to be of the opinion that because of that we just shouldn't try to provide evidence.

And no, actually, it was after my post that you started to provide actual content. So, at that time, you were just making evidence-less claims... Which, remember, are still worse than using sparse evidence. If I'm snippy it's because you're jumping down my throat without provide evidence why besides a feeling you have that a portion of my comments were forced... Because you even say after that that portions of it were still good. And if I said, "of course it seems forced" maybe read on beyond the first sentence... That's because evidence is sparse now, something you seem to be well aware of, so that indeed I had to <i>read into them</i> to try to get info. I'm sorry.
At what time? The evidence is your huge reads post posted so early in the game. It was not an evidence-less claim.
I have pressured you on this--you are correct that that forms the body of why I find you scummy.

I don't think you're getting my point that reads posts are best saved for when things don't have to be forced, because there is a natural larger body of information to draw from.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #232 on: June 11, 2015, 03:00:42 pm »

I know that I for one could just as easily, and I'm getting from IG that he could have as well, created an extremely similar large reads list with little content, but we're not doing that because that doesn't actually Do anything

Should I demonstrate and get all the townpointscred?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #233 on: June 11, 2015, 03:05:33 pm »

If we didn't all have personal QT's, this might even be a real one.

Why would you need to use <i> in your personal QT though?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #234 on: June 11, 2015, 03:07:29 pm »

I know that I for one could just as easily, and I'm getting from IG that he could have as well, created an extremely similar large reads list with little content, but we're not doing that because that doesn't actually Do anything

Should I demonstrate and get all the townpointscred?

Yes, please do.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #235 on: June 11, 2015, 03:09:23 pm »

I know that I for one could just as easily, and I'm getting from IG that he could have as well, created an extremely similar large reads list with little content, but we're not doing that because that doesn't actually Do anything

Should I demonstrate and get all the townpointscred?

Yes, please do.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #236 on: June 11, 2015, 03:10:36 pm »

Yes, because at that time you didn't provide evidence at all. If he evidence is sparse now that doesn't mean we should use it. You seem to be of the opinion that because of that we just shouldn't try to provide evidence.

And no, actually, it was after my post that you started to provide actual content. So, at that time, you were just making evidence-less claims... Which, remember, are still worse than using sparse evidence. If I'm snippy it's because you're jumping down my throat without provide evidence why besides a feeling you have that a portion of my comments were forced... Because you even say after that that portions of it were still good. And if I said, "of course it seems forced" maybe read on beyond the first sentence... That's because evidence is sparse now, something you seem to be well aware of, so that indeed I had to <i>read into them</i> to try to get info. I'm sorry.
At what time? The evidence is your huge reads post posted so early in the game. It was not an evidence-less claim.
I have pressured you on this--you are correct that that forms the body of why I find you scummy.

I don't think you're getting my point that reads posts are best saved for when things don't have to be forced, because there is a natural larger body of information to draw from.

I think you're all missing the point that large reads like that, even early on is a way to get things going. You closely read things and draw impressions, that way you an point things out and try to have a place to start. That's how content gets started to be made... Like there is literally no bright line for when you say we should start doing it. When is it late enough to?!

I know that I for one could just as easily, and I'm getting from IG that he could have as well, created an extremely similar large reads list with little content, but we're not doing that because that doesn't actually Do anything

Should I demonstrate and get all the townpointscred?

Sarcasm aside in your post, you should do that. That way people can see where you stand on intepretting things and your thoughts get posted. Then we will have content because people... Guess what... PROVIDED CONTENT! It doesn't magically appear, and thinking that there just comes a point when there's enough is foolish. If you want a game with a lot of content, discussions, and reads then provide it.

And literally the fact that ichi even said I had good points PROVES THIS. It wasn't all wasted. There was good content.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #237 on: June 11, 2015, 03:12:00 pm »

Yeah. I'm losing my scumread on DeDe a bit. I still think it's the reads post was maybe him trying to get towncred, but he is providing content.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #238 on: June 11, 2015, 03:19:02 pm »

Except he's tunneling Mail-Mi...

He's implied suspicion, vigvoted, or voted for: mail-mi, Hydrad, WW.

I'm not saying he's not pushed mail-mi the most, but he's eyeballed these three at least once. He's also heavily encouraging a D1 dayvig, which I personally think is a poor decision (although now that the dayvig has claimed, it's hard to argue not seeing a shot there).

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #239 on: June 11, 2015, 03:20:21 pm »

Except he's tunneling Mail-Mi...

He's implied suspicion, vigvoted, or voted for: mail-mi, Hydrad, WW.

I'm not saying he's not pushed mail-mi the most, but he's eyeballed these three at least once. He's also heavily encouraging a D1 dayvig, which I personally think is a poor decision (although now that the dayvig has claimed, it's hard to argue not seeing a shot there).

Okay but still, there's this:

Also, fairly certain mail-mi is scum.  He hasn't played in awhile and he has the itchy trigger finger of a guilty henchman.  I currently imagine him wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #240 on: June 11, 2015, 03:21:58 pm »

Except he's tunneling Mail-Mi...

He's implied suspicion, vigvoted, or voted for: mail-mi, Hydrad, WW.

I'm not saying he's not pushed mail-mi the most, but he's eyeballed these three at least once. He's also heavily encouraging a D1 dayvig, which I personally think is a poor decision (although now that the dayvig has claimed, it's hard to argue not seeing a shot there).

Okay but still, there's this:

Also, fairly certain mail-mi is scum.  He hasn't played in awhile and he has the itchy trigger finger of a guilty henchman.  I currently imagine him wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

True. This is why I said 60% rather than 75% :P

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #241 on: June 11, 2015, 03:24:06 pm »

Yeah. I'm losing my scumread on DeDe a bit. I still think it's the reads post was maybe him trying to get towncred, but he is providing content.

I still believe that trying to get town cred is what town does.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #242 on: June 11, 2015, 03:29:46 pm »

Yeah. I'm losing my scumread on DeDe a bit. I still think it's the reads post was maybe him trying to get towncred, but he is providing content.

I still believe that trying to get town cred is what town does.

So you're never town?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #243 on: June 11, 2015, 03:50:50 pm »

Yeah. I'm losing my scumread on DeDe a bit. I still think it's the reads post was maybe him trying to get towncred, but he is providing content.

I still believe that trying to get town cred is what town does.

So you're never town?

No, I'm always trying to get town cred.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #244 on: June 11, 2015, 04:17:32 pm »

I know that I for one could just as easily, and I'm getting from IG that he could have as well, created an extremely similar large reads list with little content, but we're not doing that because that doesn't actually Do anything

Should I demonstrate and get all the townpointscred?

Enough with all this scumpainting on town-moves, you are not alone with this, absolutely not, but with your low posting except this I smell scum. DeDes post was good, except his confused vote on me. Why so many gave him a hard time because of it is..odd.

Vote: Ghacob
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #245 on: June 11, 2015, 04:18:42 pm »

vigv0te: hockeysemlan

for buddying the guy that suspects him.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #246 on: June 11, 2015, 04:24:38 pm »

vigv0te: hockeysemlan

for buddying the guy that suspects him.

Bah. I'm not buddying anyone in particuliar. Just people who trying to give content early on. I'm null on DeDe, but can't get where all the aggression came from.

But I'm just a new guy, don't mind me..
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #247 on: June 11, 2015, 04:46:49 pm »

vigv0te: hockeysemlan

for buddying the guy that suspects him.

Bah. I'm not buddying anyone in particuliar. Just people who trying to give content early on. I'm null on DeDe, but can't get where all the aggression came from.

But I'm just a new guy, don't mind me..

This smells of scumminess. Hockey keeps pushing that he's a new player and barely contributing beyond that, and always with the "I'm new!!!" caveat. I feel like this is newbie scum just trying to fly under the radar, not directly accusing, and trying to defend others so no one suspects him.

I like where my vote is here.

I still think mail-mi is a better vig vote, though. I'm very suspicious on him wanting to save the vig vote. He is just assuming we have protection and will use it on ADK, which may be possible since we all have PRs, but still makes me very nervous he's risk it. I feel like having assured information is very important at this point in the game.

I don't feel ash is scum. I think that he is pushing hard for a D1 vig because it's kind of necessary now. I don't feel that it's a scummy move.
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Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #248 on: June 11, 2015, 04:48:09 pm »

Chairs: does the Cordelia flavor claim provide anything?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #249 on: June 11, 2015, 04:56:56 pm »

Chairs: does the Cordelia flavor claim provide anything?

It's something I can work with, yes.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #250 on: June 11, 2015, 05:10:21 pm »

vigv0te: hockeysemlan

for buddying the guy that suspects him.

Bah. I'm not buddying anyone in particuliar. Just people who trying to give content early on. I'm null on DeDe, but can't get where all the aggression came from.

But I'm just a new guy, don't mind me..

This smells of scumminess. Hockey keeps pushing that he's a new player and barely contributing beyond that, and always with the "I'm new!!!" caveat. I feel like this is newbie scum just trying to fly under the radar, not directly accusing, and trying to defend others so no one suspects him.

I like where my vote is here.


Okey.. What should I do then? This is RMM, for god sake, I have zero clue, actually. You didn't even know that everyone had some sort of PR, are you really the one to nag on other newbs? Do you want me to claim perhaps, or what? Tell me anything, obviously you know how to play this so give me all advice you have..

I just being able to build some reads, I just recently made a non-RVS-vote. What more do you want? Not everyone can provide a wall of text this early. Actually we only need one since the reads this early are pretty far out anyway.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #251 on: June 11, 2015, 05:21:09 pm »

Just quit reminding us you're new with every post  8)

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #252 on: June 11, 2015, 05:41:13 pm »

Too many people, too many posts.

People I don't want to vig:

Dede, silver, probably not ash but that's less certain. The first two are providing a lot of good content, the latter is someone I don't like getting rid of on day one on principle.

e is someone I could vig, he seemed a little to quick to give me towncred for my claim. I might shoot a habitual lurker like chairs or mail-mi but I'm hoping we can do better than that.

I think I'll try and take a closer look at Ghacob and hockey, I almost get a bit of a partner vibe off of this post:

I know that I for one could just as easily, and I'm getting from IG that he could have as well, created an extremely similar large reads list with little content, but we're not doing that because that doesn't actually Do anything

Should I demonstrate and get all the townpointscred?

Enough with all this scumpainting on town-moves, you are not alone with this, absolutely not, but with your low posting except this I smell scum. DeDes post was good, except his confused vote on me. Why so many gave him a hard time because of it is..odd.

Vote: Ghacob
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Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #253 on: June 11, 2015, 05:43:05 pm »

vigv0te: hockeysemlan

for buddying the guy that suspects him.

Bah. I'm not buddying anyone in particuliar. Just people who trying to give content early on. I'm null on DeDe, but can't get where all the aggression came from.

But I'm just a new guy, don't mind me..

This smells of scumminess. Hockey keeps pushing that he's a new player and barely contributing beyond that, and always with the "I'm new!!!" caveat. I feel like this is newbie scum just trying to fly under the radar, not directly accusing, and trying to defend others so no one suspects him.

I like where my vote is here.


Okey.. What should I do then? This is RMM, for god sake, I have zero clue, actually. You didn't even know that everyone had some sort of PR, are you really the one to nag on other newbs? Do you want me to claim perhaps, or what? Tell me anything, obviously you know how to play this so give me all advice you have..

I just being able to build some reads, I just recently made a non-RVS-vote. What more do you want? Not everyone can provide a wall of text this early. Actually we only need one since the reads this early are pretty far out anyway.

Yea, but I'm not continuously reminding people in new to this game. You can try to make reds. All you've been doing so far is basically defending me and then reminding people you're new... And now you're freaking out because I think you're scummy. New scum often try to play off their newbieness, especially if the other more experienced scum players tell them too. You've basically been absent from discussions and when you tentatively accuse someone or defend someone it's always with a caveat of being new so people don't suspect you for anything. It just seems super scummy to me.

PPE 1
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #254 on: June 11, 2015, 05:48:09 pm »

Too many people, too many posts.

People I don't want to vig:

Dede, silver, probably not ash but that's less certain. The first two are providing a lot of good content, the latter is someone I don't like getting rid of on day one on principle.

e is someone I could vig, he seemed a little to quick to give me towncred for my claim. I might shoot a habitual lurker like chairs or mail-mi but I'm hoping we can do better than that.

I think I'll try and take a closer look at Ghacob and hockey, I almost get a bit of a partner vibe off of this post:

I know that I for one could just as easily, and I'm getting from IG that he could have as well, created an extremely similar large reads list with little content, but we're not doing that because that doesn't actually Do anything

Should I demonstrate and get all the townpointscred?

Enough with all this scumpainting on town-moves, you are not alone with this, absolutely not, but with your low posting except this I smell scum. DeDes post was good, except his confused vote on me. Why so many gave him a hard time because of it is..odd.

Vote: Ghacob

This is actually a good point. Why does his low posting make him agreeing with me being scummy seem like he is more scum?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #255 on: June 11, 2015, 05:59:43 pm »


Yea, but I'm not continuously reminding people in new to this game. You can try to make reds. All you've been doing so far is basically defending me and then reminding people you're new... And now you're freaking out because I think you're scummy. New scum often try to play off their newbieness, especially if the other more experienced scum players tell them too. You've basically been absent from discussions and when you tentatively accuse someone or defend someone it's always with a caveat of being new so people don't suspect you for anything. It just seems super scummy to me.

PPE 1

I don't like the discussions. The vig-thing? Ah, well, we most likely hit town so the two vote mechanics confuses me. I have found one scumread. Should I vig or lynch him? I vigvoted mail-mi anyway to not shy away from getting a stand. But I rather listen to the discussion than provide since I don't know slack. Ash seems towny for pushing it, but could be the other way around as far as I know.

The mess around you? IG seems town after it since I've seen him be this aggressive before as town. But then again. Annoying. Weird. I don't know.

Ghacob -also rather new- should like town moves, I liked your post, why does he suspect it? Hence scumread

WW, he is WW as far as I can see. Probably scum therefor.

You are townish. See. I avoid OMGUS. Proskill.

Thats what I got. Woho, pro-content indeed!
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #256 on: June 11, 2015, 06:07:52 pm »

No time to do a reads list right now, real life is happening
When is the deadline for the vig? We have one day left, right?

PPE: 3

really quick go through, to be expanded on later:
hockey: give me a few days (game in progress)
chairs: suspicious of, not necessarily scummish behavior, but I'd like someone that really knows the flavor to think about what this might mean
DeDe: could easily be late town, or planned scum behavior, overall null
WW: towny, clearly a good player
e - post more maybe?
egorK: hasn't done too much other than blend in
IG: very slight scum for dumb meta reading reasons, I usually don't like him and am suspicious of him when he's town, I don't feel as such now, therefor I'm suspicious
Real life: Very scummy
Forum game: null/slight town, going to have to return to this one later

I'll be back at some point with more detail and a finished list
PPE: 1
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #257 on: June 11, 2015, 06:14:27 pm »

their actions reminded me of town!me, but I'm new.

So you needed a remainder, huh?

PPE: about 3 pages
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #258 on: June 11, 2015, 06:15:35 pm »

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #259 on: June 11, 2015, 06:16:38 pm »

I forgot EgorK was in this game. Also three pages were posted in the time it took you to write that?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #260 on: June 11, 2015, 06:24:47 pm »

chairs: suspicious of, not necessarily scummish behavior, but I'd like someone that really knows the flavor to think about what this might mean

I've been trying to figure this out. The best flavor I can come up with is that he is some sort of watcher-esque player. Probably able to tell the PR from the flavor name (like consulting the books) or is able to tell if they're lying or something. I'm not sure. That would mean Giles, Westley, or another watcher from the show. He could also be someone like Willow who did a lot of research... Then again, a lot of the big bads also were able to know things based on the names of villians (everyone knew The Master, or Spike, or Angelus, etc.), so I have no idea. I don't think we'll be able to determine who he is from the scant info we know.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #261 on: June 11, 2015, 06:29:16 pm »

I forgot EgorK was in this game. Also three pages were posted in the time it took you to write that?

No, I just preferred to quote that right away before reading everything else.

IG seems scummy to me here. Pushed DD for some time, seen it got him nowhere and decided to back off. Mail-mi and Ghacob seems scummier still
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #262 on: June 11, 2015, 06:31:32 pm »


Yea, but I'm not continuously reminding people in new to this game. You can try to make reds. All you've been doing so far is basically defending me and then reminding people you're new... And now you're freaking out because I think you're scummy. New scum often try to play off their newbieness, especially if the other more experienced scum players tell them too. You've basically been absent from discussions and when you tentatively accuse someone or defend someone it's always with a caveat of being new so people don't suspect you for anything. It just seems super scummy to me.

PPE 1

I don't like the discussions. The vig-thing? Ah, well, we most likely hit town so the two vote mechanics confuses me. I have found one scumread. Should I vig or lynch him? I vigvoted mail-mi anyway to not shy away from getting a stand. But I rather listen to the discussion than provide since I don't know slack. Ash seems towny for pushing it, but could be the other way around as far as I know.

The mess around you? IG seems town after it since I've seen him be this aggressive before as town. But then again. Annoying. Weird. I don't know.

Ghacob -also rather new- should like town moves, I liked your post, why does he suspect it? Hence scumread

WW, he is WW as far as I can see. Probably scum therefor.

You are townish. See. I avoid OMGUS. Proskill.

Thats what I got. Woho, pro-content indeed!

Have you been reading old games or something?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #263 on: June 11, 2015, 06:33:12 pm »

I forgot EgorK was in this game. Also three pages were posted in the time it took you to write that?

No, I just preferred to quote that right away before reading everything else.

IG seems scummy to me here. Pushed DD for some time, seen it got him nowhere and decided to back off. Mail-mi and Ghacob seems scummier still

I don't understand why you think Mail-Mi is scummy.  So far I think only Ash presented a real case; everyone else was disagreeing with Mail-Mi on theory issues and therefore wanting to vig him, which seems bad to me.