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[DG]

Giant: Action - Attack, $5
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up). If it's face down, +$1. If it's face up, +$5, and each other player reveals the top card of his deck, trashes it if it costs from $3 to $6, and otherwise discards it and gains a Curse.

Wow a big card! +5 coins and attack is very impressive even if you don't get it every time. This guy is certainly going to bring triumph and disaster. It will feel like a disaster if you play your giant for +1 coin, flip your journey token, but it gets trashed from your deck before you can play it again. You'll have to buy another one won't you, or maybe you should have bought a second giant already?

How bad is the attack? It would be trouble except that the giant is so slow. Unless your opponents can play a lot of giants you might be able to ignore it. When you have more than one opponent you might get more attacks on your deck and then you might need to worry. 

Traders, beggars, and silver in general look like good defenses against a giant. The defender will generally have some control of what the attack will do since it is the defender that puts most of the cards into the deck. If you buy a lot of fool's gold then the giant will be giving you curses. Even so the giant attack will probably be quite random since, like a jester, it only looks at one card. We'll see streaks of luck where the same sort of card is turned over again and again.

How good is the coin income? If you can use those +5 coins to buy key cards like platinum then it is excellent. Of course, having to get +1 coin first is very bad but perhaps you can use those early turns to gain some cards with +buy, ready for when the giant gives you the real money. Maybe if you can play your giants very often you can forget the bad start and look towards a healthy income of +6 coins from two plays.

I suspect there will be some interesting end game decisions on whether or not to play the giant and flip the journey token, especially if there's another action that could be played instead. I also suspect that these decisions will feel bad every time as you'll be weighing up income in the current hand against a gamble on what you need in a future hand. Triumph or disaster will be waiting.

[werothegreat]

This one was my other favorite card!  GIANT SMASH!!

[Jimmmmm]

Of course, having to get +1 coin first is very bad

You get the +5 coins first.

[enfynet]

Cost reducers and a couple Prince of Giants would be agonizing.

[Donald X.]

Of course, having to get +1 coin first is very bad

You get the +5 coins first.

No. The token starts face up. You turn it face down. You get +$1.

[Jimmmmm]

Of course, having to get +1 coin first is very bad

You get the +5 coins first.

No. The token starts face up. You turn it face down. You get +$1.

Oh! Okay.

[jonts26]

Of course, having to get +1 coin first is very bad

You get the +5 coins first.

It starts face up and you flip it down before anything else so the first play of giant is the weak one.

[Jimmmmm]

The Journey token sounds awesome. I hope there are more cards that use it. Games with multiple Journeyers could be interesting if you're trying to (for example) use other ones to ensure you use the strong Giant attack as often as possible.

[Witherweaver]

My first instinct is that it's not going to be a big deal unless it's in an Engine that can play it often (sort of like Sab or those Attacks).  King's Court alternates between playing it once or twice.  With two in a deck-drawing Engine you can get the good effect every turn. 

[jonts26]

This is a card I think I really underestimated the first game or two. If you can play this even fairly consistently in an engine it is just brutal. The spikes economy are actually often nice for grabbing big engine components. And it's actually not bad in big money either for spiking provinces.

[enfynet]

The Journey token sounds awesome. I hope there are more cards that use it. Games with multiple Journeyers could be interesting if you're trying to (for example) use other ones to ensure you use the strong Giant attack as often as possible.

Unless a card says "Turn your Journey Token face up." That would really cripple your Giant. Or perhaps "Other players turn their Journey Tokens face up." in an effort to stall other Journey-Enabled cards?

[popsofctown]

This is just totally outclassed by the other cursers, right?

[managore]

I hope there's a card that benefits from the Journey token being face down. Balancing the two cards in one game would be brutal!

[Jean-Michel]

I guess the card that draws 5 cards when throned will use this Journey token thing (if there are more cards using it).

Nice card.

[Hockey Mask]

This expansion is becoming more and more ridiculous (in a good way).

[jsh357]

This is just totally outclassed by the other cursers, right?

Giant is not usually a curser.  It's a trashing attack that gets to be a Curser if the trashing fails.

[iguanaiguana]

The cursing part compares more to jester than other cursers. It's my favorite solution so far to what should a trashing attack do when it hits a card too weak or too strong to be fairly trashed.

[XerxesPraelor]

I bet the card that draws 5 if you King's court it will use the journey token too.

Edit: ninjas again

[Jimmmmm]

I hope there's a card that benefits from the Journey token being face down. Balancing the two cards in one game would be brutal!

Giant benefits from the Journey token being face down before you play it. I'm not a fan of flipping the token first; I think it's counter-intuitive.

[Witherweaver]

I bet the card that draws 5 if you King's court it will use the journey token too.

I think it was throne.

[eHalcyon]

The card that gives +5 cards when you throne it is another Journey token card, isn't it?  If all the Journey token cards alternate between good and bad (and they might not), is the good effect always for face up?  If not, you could really luck out if you manage to draw and play your cards in the right order.


(I see that most of this has already been said, but I am posting it anyway!)

[werothegreat]

This is a card I think I really underestimated the first game or two. If you can play this even fairly consistently in an engine it is just brutal. The spikes economy are actually often nice for grabbing big engine components. And it's actually not bad in big money either for spiking provinces.

I remember that game.

[Chaos]

Ummm, maybe I'm missing something, but how do you get the journey token in the first place? Do you just always start the game with one? The card doesn't seem to say.

[Witherweaver]

Ummm, maybe I'm missing something, but how do you get the journey token in the first place? Do you just always start the game with one? The card doesn't seem to say.

I'm under the impression that you start the game with tokens.  They're yours.  Love them, name them, cherish them.  Cards (or events) just make them do things.

Edit: Well, maybe its their location (and a trigger) that makes them do things as well (i.e., on deck, on a pile).  But they start out just aside or something.

[Jimmmmm]

Ummm, maybe I'm missing something, but how do you get the journey token in the first place? Do you just always start the game with one? The card doesn't seem to say.

I assume it's the same as Mats etc. Island doesn't tell you to take an Island Mat, it just assumes you have one. I think the rulebook says to take one when you gain your first Island. In practice, you might take one at the start of the game just in case and since it doesn't matter if you have one and don't need it, or you might take one when you first play an Island and realise you need somewhere to put it.

[Donald X.]

Ummm, maybe I'm missing something, but how do you get the journey token in the first place?

You buy a copy of Adventures. It has 6 of them.

[Witherweaver]

You can also make your own with construction paper, scissors, a writing utensil, compass,  and straight edge.

[Gveoniz]

You can also make your own with construction paper, scissors, a writing utensil, compass,  and straight edge.

Journey token have a radius of pi.

[TheOthin]

You can also make your own with construction paper, scissors, a writing utensil, compass,  and straight edge.

Journey token have a radius of pi.

Without specified units, so do all circular things.

[AJD]

The cursing part compares more to jester than other cursers. It's my favorite solution so far to what should a trashing attack do when it hits a card too weak or too strong to be fairly trashed.

Noble Brigand has a similar solution!

[liopoil]

What I hope the +5 cards card is - $3 action
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up). If it's face down, +4 cards. If it's face up, +1 card.

Too good? Could it even be balanced at 4? It's between a smithy and a moat, but it's better the first time you play it and moat gives you another effect. Also I think alternating is better than being constant, that is, giant would be worse if it gave 3 coins every time.

[Willvon]

More great art also.

Looks like a pretty formidable giant, though his size might make him a little slow at times. But when one of his blows lands, look out!!

[swedenman]

You can also make your own with construction paper, scissors, a writing utensil, compass,  and straight edge.

Journey token have a radius of pi.

Without specified units, so do all circular things.

Uh, that's not how circles work.

[Gherald]

Without specified units, all things can have a radius of pi units.  Or a circumference of pi units.  Or a volume of pi units.  Or any other measurement of pi units, because we haven't defined what the unit of measurement is.

[TheOthin]

What I hope the +5 cards card is - $3 action
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up). If it's face down, +4 cards. If it's face up, +1 card.

Too good? Could it even be balanced at 4? It's between a smithy and a moat, but it's better the first time you play it and moat gives you another effect. Also I think alternating is better than being constant, that is, giant would be worse if it gave 3 coins every time.

A terminal Gold with an Attack every two plays would not get away with a $5 price tag.

[popsofctown]

This is just totally outclassed by the other cursers, right?

Giant is not usually a curser.  It's a trashing attack that gets to be a Curser if the trashing fails.

You understand my question well enough to answer it, but you'll spend time criticizing the way I posed it and forgo the time it takes to answer what I asked.

[Gherald]

If your goal is to dish out curses regardless of anything else, yes it's outclassed.  But that's not the primary thrust of Giant's attack and so it's in a different category.

You may as well ask whether Jester is totally outclassed by other cursers, or whether Noble Brigand is totally outclassed by other junkers.

[jaybeez]

Am I the only one that saw the card art and immediately thought of Golden Axe?

Makes me think of the guy in the lower left here:

[TrojH]

Actually, the Princess Bride is what came to my mind.

*plays Giant, gets $1*

"I did that on purpose. I don't have to miss."

[WanderingWinder]

I'm trying to evaluate this thing. It's kinda hard. I guess it is probably not very strong for Big Money - better than nothing, sure, but $5 and the attack so little probably not enough to put it over whatever the average of best benchmark out of the other cards on the board is.

I really want to Throne the darn thing.

Uh, engines? This could definitely be the payload of an engine, though again, money isn't usually the thing you are hurting for. The attack, well it's good, but not that amazing, given you're only getting it half the time. Yeah, I suspect this will be medium-ish, but on the clearly weaker side of that. I could easily be way off on this one though.

[markusin]

This card, it's pretty slow if you just get a couple in a money-centric deck like you would a Militia. Worse, if it's attack gets blocked by Moat or Beggar or Watchtower, it's really a disaster. Well, at least you still get +$5, so it's good for spiking stuff (like those high cost cards and events in Adventures, which seem to be quite common).

But clearly, if you can play it fairly often it can be quite brutal. I think the dream is being able to play 2 of these each turn. That's +$6 and a nasty attack through 2 cards. Thinking about it like that, Giant fulfills 2 kinds of payload at once: big attack and big buying power. Seems pretty card efficient to me. It also doesn't necessarily lose its relevance if Curses run out, but can be worse than Knights if Curses are gone. Because of how many coins it produces, I think you can build a treasure-less engine that mainly relies on Giants for coin. I think that kind of engine will be very strong.

[popsofctown]

If your goal is to dish out curses regardless of anything else, yes it's outclassed.  But that's not the primary thrust of Giant's attack and so it's in a different category.

You may as well ask whether Jester is totally outclassed by other cursers, or whether Noble Brigand is totally outclassed by other junkers.

Jester is outclassed by other cursers, though, isn't it?  The other cursers are terminal, and are much better uses of your terminal action, even at 4$.  I don't think it's necessarily obvious to a new player that Jester is outclassed by other cursers, +2$ can be better than drawing two cards to compare with Witch, as one example.

I don't see how it's not a useful question.  Other curses challenge it for its disruptive role, for its role as a terminal, for its role as a 5$ purchase, and when the curse stack is empty they directly damage its functionality.

[LastFootnote]

If your goal is to dish out curses regardless of anything else, yes it's outclassed.  But that's not the primary thrust of Giant's attack and so it's in a different category.

You may as well ask whether Jester is totally outclassed by other cursers, or whether Noble Brigand is totally outclassed by other junkers.

Jester is outclassed by other cursers, though, isn't it?  The other cursers are terminal, and are much better uses of your terminal action, even at 4$.  I don't think it's necessarily obvious to a new player that Jester is outclassed by other cursers, +2$ can be better than drawing two cards to compare with Witch, as one example.

I don't see how it's not a useful question.  Other curses challenge it for its disruptive role, for its role as a terminal, for its role as a 5$ purchase, and when the curse stack is empty they directly damage its functionality.

Well in that case Giant outclasses lots of other Cursers, since it still does plenty for you when the Curse stack is empty.

[Awaclus]

Also I think alternating is better than being constant, that is, giant would be worse if it gave 3 coins every time.

That's the case in the long run, but I think it's worth noting that it's just a terminal Copper the first time you play it, which is pretty relevant since that's the time when you would need the extra economy the most.

[Gherald]

Depends on the board as usual. If you buy a Fishing Village or Ironmonger on your first + play and then a KC, Prince, or Forge-as-only-trasher on your next + play, well that's something

[Robz888]

I'm trying to evaluate this thing. It's kinda hard. I guess it is probably not very strong for Big Money - better than nothing, sure, but $5 and the attack so little probably not enough to put it over whatever the average of best benchmark out of the other cards on the board is.

I really want to Throne the darn thing.

Uh, engines? This could definitely be the payload of an engine, though again, money isn't usually the thing you are hurting for. The attack, well it's good, but not that amazing, given you're only getting it half the time. Yeah, I suspect this will be medium-ish, but on the clearly weaker side of that. I could easily be way off on this one though.

It's gotta be TERRIBLE for BM. Imagine if it misses the shuffle. You're going to attack them like, what, a couple times before the game is over? The attack isn't even very devastating to BM.

I think it's got to be much better in engines... but still not great. It doesn't stack very well, I don't think, because you're still only getting the benefit every other time. I mean, how essential is Rogue for engines? Or ever? Because Rogue, similarly, can't just eat through their whole deck, because it has to gain stuff instead if it can. So it's a bit similar to Giant in that way. Giant will be better, but better than Rogue isn't such a high bar. Yeah, I'm not sold on this card. I think it's pretty weak, especially compared to other Cursers, and the other new stuff we're seeing.

[WanderingWinder]

I'm trying to evaluate this thing. It's kinda hard. I guess it is probably not very strong for Big Money - better than nothing, sure, but $5 and the attack so little probably not enough to put it over whatever the average of best benchmark out of the other cards on the board is.

I really want to Throne the darn thing.

Uh, engines? This could definitely be the payload of an engine, though again, money isn't usually the thing you are hurting for. The attack, well it's good, but not that amazing, given you're only getting it half the time. Yeah, I suspect this will be medium-ish, but on the clearly weaker side of that. I could easily be way off on this one though.

It's gotta be TERRIBLE for BM. Imagine if it misses the shuffle. You're going to attack them like, what, a couple times before the game is over? The attack isn't even very devastating to BM.

I think it's got to be much better in engines... but still not great. It doesn't stack very well, I don't think, because you're still only getting the benefit every other time. I mean, how essential is Rogue for engines? Or ever? Because Rogue, similarly, can't just eat through their whole deck, because it has to gain stuff instead if it can. So it's a bit similar to Giant in that way. Giant will be better, but better than Rogue isn't such a high bar. Yeah, I'm not sold on this card. I think it's pretty weak, especially compared to other Cursers, and the other new stuff we're seeing.

Sure, I don't disagree with this. It is almost certainly better than Saboteur, at least. And I still guess the first one is better than silver for BM (and thus better than village, all those other do-nothings, etc. for BM). But really not better than that. IF you can play it a lot, the attack is devastating... but overall I think the card is weak.

[blueblimp]

Whether Giant is mostly a curser or a trasher depends on the situation. Against a thick deck, it's mostly a curser, making the attack not much different from Witch. Against a thin deck, it's mostly a trasher, and the attack is comparable to Knight's (in some ways better, in some ways worse). But the attack only hits once every 2 plays. The average +$3 is better than Dame Sylvia's +$2, but maybe not better than Witch's +2 cards and Sir Destry's +2 cards. This makes me think that Giant will be weaker than those cards, unless there is some way to favourably manipulate the Journey token.

Being weaker than auto-buys doesn't say much about its power level though. I think it'll be good enough to run in the right situations, but not an auto-buy. I like that in a card.

[Warwing25]

This may be slow, but is it reasonable in a colony game to use duplicate to gain two giants in an engine. If so, it could be a pretty good synergy

[markusin]

This may be slow, but is it reasonable in a colony game to use duplicate to gain two giants in an engine. If so, it could be a pretty good synergy

I think if you want Giant in an engine, you surely want at least 2. Anything that helps with that is bound to be a good. So yeah Duplicate is relevant, and it's possibly more important to call Duplicate on a payload card like this than one like Jester or Rogue.

[GendoIkari]

This is just totally outclassed by the other cursers, right?

Giant is not usually a curser.  It's a trashing attack that gets to be a Curser if the trashing fails.

You understand my question well enough to answer it, but you'll spend time criticizing the way I posed it and forgo the time it takes to answer what I asked.

I don't read it that way at all... I didn't see his response as a criticism of the way you posed your question; but rather as a good answer to that question. The point is that for something to be outclassed by cursers; that thing generally needs to be a curser. Otherwise you're comparing apples and oranges. The helpful question to ask here is how it compares to other trashers; not how it compares to other cursers.

[GendoIkari]

Whether Giant is mostly a curser or a trasher depends on the situation. Against a thick deck, it's mostly a curser, making the attack not much different from Witch. Against a thin deck, it's mostly a trasher, and the attack is comparable to Knight's (in some ways better, in some ways worse). But the attack only hits once every 2 plays. The average +$3 is better than Dame Sylvia's +$2, but maybe not better than Witch's +2 cards and Sir Destry's +2 cards. This makes me think that Giant will be weaker than those cards, unless there is some way to favourably manipulate the Journey token.

Being weaker than auto-buys doesn't say much about its power level though. I think it'll be good enough to run in the right situations, but not an auto-buy. I like that in a card.

I don't get this... the what matters is the percentage of cards in the opposing deck that cost the right amount. How thin or thick the deck is shouldn't change how often it curses vs trashes.

[spiralstaircase]

What I hope the +5 cards card is - $3 action
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up). If it's face down, +4 cards. If it's face up, +1 card.

If this isn't called Dwarf, then my 2015 prediction is for a million fan cards called Dwarf.

[jonts26]

Whether Giant is mostly a curser or a trasher depends on the situation. Against a thick deck, it's mostly a curser, making the attack not much different from Witch. Against a thin deck, it's mostly a trasher, and the attack is comparable to Knight's (in some ways better, in some ways worse). But the attack only hits once every 2 plays. The average +$3 is better than Dame Sylvia's +$2, but maybe not better than Witch's +2 cards and Sir Destry's +2 cards. This makes me think that Giant will be weaker than those cards, unless there is some way to favourably manipulate the Journey token.

Being weaker than auto-buys doesn't say much about its power level though. I think it'll be good enough to run in the right situations, but not an auto-buy. I like that in a card.

I don't get this... the what matters is the percentage of cards in the opposing deck that cost the right amount. How thin or thick the deck is shouldn't change how often it curses vs trashes.

I think the logic is, a thin deck has gotten rid of estates and coppers and thus generally has a high density of trash able targets and vice versa.

[GendoIkari]

Whether Giant is mostly a curser or a trasher depends on the situation. Against a thick deck, it's mostly a curser, making the attack not much different from Witch. Against a thin deck, it's mostly a trasher, and the attack is comparable to Knight's (in some ways better, in some ways worse). But the attack only hits once every 2 plays. The average +$3 is better than Dame Sylvia's +$2, but maybe not better than Witch's +2 cards and Sir Destry's +2 cards. This makes me think that Giant will be weaker than those cards, unless there is some way to favourably manipulate the Journey token.

Being weaker than auto-buys doesn't say much about its power level though. I think it'll be good enough to run in the right situations, but not an auto-buy. I like that in a card.

I don't get this... the what matters is the percentage of cards in the opposing deck that cost the right amount. How thin or thick the deck is shouldn't change how often it curses vs trashes.

I think the logic is, a thin deck has gotten rid of estates and coppers and thus generally has a high density of trash able targets and vice versa.

I see. But man, that completely assumes that my strategy of thinning out everything BUT Coppers and Estates isn't being used!

[markusin]

Whether Giant is mostly a curser or a trasher depends on the situation. Against a thick deck, it's mostly a curser, making the attack not much different from Witch. Against a thin deck, it's mostly a trasher, and the attack is comparable to Knight's (in some ways better, in some ways worse). But the attack only hits once every 2 plays. The average +$3 is better than Dame Sylvia's +$2, but maybe not better than Witch's +2 cards and Sir Destry's +2 cards. This makes me think that Giant will be weaker than those cards, unless there is some way to favourably manipulate the Journey token.

Being weaker than auto-buys doesn't say much about its power level though. I think it'll be good enough to run in the right situations, but not an auto-buy. I like that in a card.

I don't get this... the what matters is the percentage of cards in the opposing deck that cost the right amount. How thin or thick the deck is shouldn't change how often it curses vs trashes.

I think the logic is, a thin deck has gotten rid of estates and coppers and thus generally has a high density of trash able targets and vice versa.

I see. But man, that completely assumes that my strategy of thinning out everything BUT Coppers and Estates isn't being used!

Step 1) Don't buy any cards
Step 2) Profit

But really, you can have a deck relying on $2's and $7+'s, which already defends well against knights, but defends against the trashing part of Giant even better.

[mathguy89]

Is it just me, or does the attack only happen on the +$5 part of the Giant?

The +$1 has a period after it.  The +$5 has the comma and then describes the attack. 

Ultimately, the rulebook will clarify.

[Witherweaver]

Is it just me, or does the attack only happen on the +$5 part of the Giant?

The +$1 has a period after it.  The +$5 has the comma and then describes the attack. 

Ultimately, the rulebook will clarify.

I don't believe anyone was interpreting it any other way, were they?

[Gherald]

This is the sort of thing where if you need the rulebook to clarify you really aren't taking the time to properly read the two sentences on the card.

If it's face up, +. If it's face down, <everything else>.

[GendoIkari]

Is it just me, or does the attack only happen on the +$5 part of the Giant?

The +$1 has a period after it.  The +$5 has the comma and then describes the attack. 

Ultimately, the rulebook will clarify.

You are definitely correct. Welcome to the forum!

[ConMan]

Is it just me, or does the attack only happen on the +$5 part of the Giant?

The +$1 has a period after it.  The +$5 has the comma and then describes the attack. 

Ultimately, the rulebook will clarify.

Well, your opponent can reveal a Moat even if you're getting the $1 effect. Or, to more effect, they can reveal a Secret Chamber, or Horse Traders. Just like if you played a Minion and chose to get $2, except in this case you don't get to choose.

[popsofctown]

Buying 0 or 2+ copies of Giant seems to increase the chance you will play it an even number of times, which is good.  Right?

[GendoIkari]

Buying 0 or 2+ copies of Giant seems to increase the chance you will play it an even number of times, which is good.  Right?

I don't think this is right...  with 2 Giants, I'm not sure that your chances of playing it an even number of times increases over just 1 Giant. Let's say for 1 Giant, there's a 50% chance of playing it an even number of times... this should be about true on average. For 2 Giants, each one still has that 50% chance of being played an even number of times. So there are 4 options, each with a 25% chance of occurring:

Giant 1 played odd #, Giant 2 played odd # - Even number of Giants played
Giant 1 played even #, Giant 2 played even # - Even number of Giants played
Giant 1 played odd #, Giant 2 played even # - Odd number of Giants played
Giant 1 played even #, Giant 2 played odd # - Odd number of Giants played

Still comes out to 50/50.

Now if you're drawing your entire deck each turn, then this changes; because you won't ever end the game while your Giant hasn't been found in the current shuffle. In that case, 2 Giants would mean you always play even; 3 would mean you have a 50/50 chance of playing even or odd.

[markusin]

If you play 3 Giants each turn, then you alternate between even and odd each turn (odd+odd=even). It isn't always an odd number of Giant plays.

[Seprix]

Is it just me, or does the attack only happen on the +$5 part of the Giant?

The +$1 has a period after it.  The +$5 has the comma and then describes the attack. 

Ultimately, the rulebook will clarify.

He's right! Giant is kind of bad...

[GendoIkari]

If you play 3 Giants each turn, then you alternate between even and odd each turn (odd+odd=even). It isn't always an odd number of Giant plays.

Oops, fixed.

[joel88s]

This is the sort of thing where if you need the rulebook to clarify you really aren't taking the time to properly read the two sentences on the card.

If it's face up, +. If it's face down, <everything else>.

OR.... we could be patient and welcoming to new posters.
Sounds to me like he read it perfectly well, but doubted himself because an attack card that attacks every other time is a bit of novelty.

[mathguy89]

This is the sort of thing where if you need the rulebook to clarify you really aren't taking the time to properly read the two sentences on the card.

If it's face up, +. If it's face down, <everything else>.

OR.... we could be patient and welcoming to new posters.
Sounds to me like he read it perfectly well, but doubted himself because an attack card that attacks every other time is a bit of novelty.

Yeah, thanks Joel.  I've been around Dominion for a long time.  Been playing since the beginning.  Lurked around here on and off for awhile.  Giant is definitely a novelty with the alternating attack.  I like it though.  I was a bit surprised to be met with condescension for asking a simple question.  It wouldn't be the first time there was ever a grammatical ambiguity on a card in a board/card game, so I figured it was worth asking about. 

[Gherald]

My response was directed at "Ultimately, the rulebook will clarify."

There's things we need a rulebook or rulings to determine. This card, on careful reading, isn't one of them.

[GendoIkari]

This is the sort of thing where if you need the rulebook to clarify you really aren't taking the time to properly read the two sentences on the card.

If it's face up, +. If it's face down, <everything else>.

OR.... we could be patient and welcoming to new posters.
Sounds to me like he read it perfectly well, but doubted himself because an attack card that attacks every other time is a bit of novelty.

Yeah, thanks Joel.  I've been around Dominion for a long time.  Been playing since the beginning.  Lurked around here on and off for awhile.  Giant is definitely a novelty with the alternating attack.  I like it though.  I was a bit surprised to be met with condescension for asking a simple question.  It wouldn't be the first time there was ever a grammatical ambiguity on a card in a board/card game, so I figured it was worth asking about.

Well stick around; I've found this forum on average to be far more friendly and welcoming than most!

[Witherweaver]

And if we call you stupid, it's only to encourage the learning process.

[Gherald]

If it's face up, +. If it's face down, <everything else>.

Whoops, that helps understand the syntax - but I just realized I flipped the up/downs

If it's face down, +. <otherwise, everything else>

[Seprix]

If you can't play Giant more than once a turn, it's probably not worth going for, I think. Just like if you can't play a Pillage a turn, it's probably a bad idea.

[liopoil]

If you can't play Giant more than once a turn, it's probably not worth going for, I think. Just like if you can't play a Pillage a turn, it's probably a bad idea.

I disagree with both of these statements.

[Seprix]

If you can't play Giant more than once a turn, it's probably not worth going for, I think. Just like if you can't play a Pillage a turn, it's probably a bad idea.

I disagree with both of these statements.

I said probably, and Stef himself doesn't like going for Pillage unless he can get them every turn usually, so I based it off of that.

[TheOthin]

If you can't play Giant more than once a turn, it's probably not worth going for, I think. Just like if you can't play a Pillage a turn, it's probably a bad idea.

I disagree with both of these statements.

I said probably, and Stef himself doesn't like going for Pillage unless he can get them every turn usually, so I based it off of that.

Pillage is a very different concept, as a unique targeted hand attack.

[markusin]

I take back what I said about Giant being slow. It's not so much slow as it is hign maintenance in order to receive the good part of the effect. The high maintenance is having to buy another Giant and play it every shuffle. If you have 2 Giants in your deck, you get the attack and +$5 every shuffle. It's really like, if you played a terminal Copper previously, you get +$5 and a strong attack.

So, to get the good effect every shuffle, you'd have to buy a second Giant, which is really a $5 Abandoned Mine. You know what though, if I have lots of actions to spare I can afford playing an Abandoned Mine every shuffle. The benefit of doing so is a +$5 spike and an attack that, depending on the board, may be very unlikely to whiff.

[Jimmmmm]

I'm not a fan of flipping the token first; I think it's counter-intuitive.

After further thought it probably is best the way it is - when you're adding up your coins, the way the token is signifies the effect you got last time you played it. Obviously it's harder to track if you have multiple cards flipping the token, but there you go.

[Archetype]

Little late to the party, but I like the Attack on Giant a lot. It's a neat cross between a Curser and Trasher and still has some utility once the Curse pile is empty.  The Journey token is also a pretty cool dynamic.

[Throwaway_bicycling]

Little late to the party, but I like the Attack on Giant a lot. It's a neat cross between a Curser and Trasher and still has some utility once the Curse pile is empty.  The Journey token is also a pretty cool dynamic.

I am *guessing* that Giant giving +$5 every other play could prove really important given the high price of some events and cards in the new set. It will be fun to see what other cards (or events?) use the Journey token and whether this affects the strength of Giant.

[jaketheyak]

It will be fun to see what other cards (or events?) use the Journey token and whether this affects the strength of Giant.

More than just affecting the strength of Giant, I think the existence of other cards that use the Journey token will really affect the complexity of Giant.
Given that if the token is the wrong way up this card is a 5-cost terminal copper, managing the token is going to be absolutely crucial to your success.

As it alludes to in the last paragraph of the preview, deciding which of two Journey token cards to use the strong side and which to use the weak side could become a very tricky decision.

This is assuming that other Journey token cards exist, but they must do or it would be called a Giant token, right?

[Jimmmmm]

I hope there's a stronger card than Giant that uses the Journey token, say, Siege Engine. Sometime all you want a Giant for is to lumber along carrying the Siege Engine.

[enfynet]

It will be fun to see what other cards (or events?) use the Journey token and whether this affects the strength of Giant.

More than just affecting the strength of Giant, I think the existence of other cards that use the Journey token will really affect the complexity of Giant.
Given that if the token is the wrong way up this card is a 5-cost terminal copper, managing the token is going to be absolutely crucial to your success.

As it alludes to in the last paragraph of the preview, deciding which of two Journey token cards to use the strong side and which to use the weak side could become a very tricky decision.

This is assuming that other Journey token cards exist, but they must do or it would be called a Giant token, right?

I'm guessing another Journey Token card will be the card that Draws 5 cards when Throned.

[Emeric]

And maybe this other card give the bonus when Journey Token is face down.

[pacovf]

I would be surprised if other Journey cards didn't work exactly as Giant does, and weren't priced 5$+ too. If there are other cards that use the Journey token, then we can consider it as a storable resource, just as coin tokens are. The fact that Giant can be used as a terminal +1$, +1 Journey token gives us an idea of how good a Journey token is, especially given that only some cards (up until now, only Giant) can use that resource, which means that any benefit from it is delayed (compare Caravan and Laboratory), and might not see any at all.

I would be extra surprised if there was a card that gave a benefit when Journey Token is face down but not when it's face up.

I'm also prepared to be very embarrassed when all my predictions are proven wrong.

[DG]

I haven't seen these other cards but Donald X. has told me that there is an event and another kingdom card that use the journey token. They won't be in random kingdoms together very often though.

[werothegreat]

I can't say what all the Journey things are, but my experience has been that you only want to use one of them if more than one is out, because they end up working at cross-purposes to each other.

[Seprix]

Everyone gets one Journey token. You can't gain multiple tokens.

[GendoIkari]

Everyone gets one Journey token. You can't gain multiple tokens.

What he meant though was gaining a use of the powerful giant play. When you play Giant for it's strong effect, it costs you a face-up Journey token. And you're limited to max 1 face-up Journey token at a time. Any card that can flip your journey token can basically be thought of as "gain a face-up journey token" (but still max 1).

[clb]

It will be fun to see what other cards (or events?) use the Journey token and whether this affects the strength of Giant.

More than just affecting the strength of Giant, I think the existence of other cards that use the Journey token will really affect the complexity of Giant.
Given that if the token is the wrong way up this card is a 5-cost terminal copper, managing the token is going to be absolutely crucial to your success.

As it alludes to in the last paragraph of the preview, deciding which of two Journey token cards to use the strong side and which to use the weak side could become a very tricky decision.

This is assuming that other Journey token cards exist, but they must do or it would be called a Giant token, right?

I'm guessing another Journey Token card will be the card that Draws 5 cards when Throned.

I had assumed that was storyteller - certainly it won't always draw 5 cards when throned, but it easily could.

[eHalcyon]

It will be fun to see what other cards (or events?) use the Journey token and whether this affects the strength of Giant.

More than just affecting the strength of Giant, I think the existence of other cards that use the Journey token will really affect the complexity of Giant.
Given that if the token is the wrong way up this card is a 5-cost terminal copper, managing the token is going to be absolutely crucial to your success.

As it alludes to in the last paragraph of the preview, deciding which of two Journey token cards to use the strong side and which to use the weak side could become a very tricky decision.

This is assuming that other Journey token cards exist, but they must do or it would be called a Giant token, right?

I'm guessing another Journey Token card will be the card that Draws 5 cards when Throned.

I had assumed that was storyteller - certainly it won't always draw 5 cards when throned, but it easily could.

Storyteller could also easily draw 5 cards without being throned, and it could easily draw other amounts either way.  Doesn't make sense to give such a specific description for something so variable.

[GendoIkari]

It will be fun to see what other cards (or events?) use the Journey token and whether this affects the strength of Giant.

More than just affecting the strength of Giant, I think the existence of other cards that use the Journey token will really affect the complexity of Giant.
Given that if the token is the wrong way up this card is a 5-cost terminal copper, managing the token is going to be absolutely crucial to your success.

As it alludes to in the last paragraph of the preview, deciding which of two Journey token cards to use the strong side and which to use the weak side could become a very tricky decision.

This is assuming that other Journey token cards exist, but they must do or it would be called a Giant token, right?

I'm guessing another Journey Token card will be the card that Draws 5 cards when Throned.

I had assumed that was storyteller - certainly it won't always draw 5 cards when throned, but it easily could.

By that notion, Cellar can also draw 5 cards when Throned. Heck, so can Smithy if you only have 5 Cards left in your deck.

[TheOthin]

His specific wording was that it draws you five cards when Throned, not that it can draw you five cards when Throned. And the fact that he specifically brought up Throne Room suggests that there's a reason it would draw 5 cards when Thrones but not when not Throned.

So yeah, it's not Storyteller. Meanwhile it's quite easy to conceive of a card using the Journey token mechanics we know that would always draw exactly five cards when Throned but not when played normally.

[Witherweaver]

Clearly he was talking about Cellar.  A bonus Cellar card ships with every Adventures set.

[AJD]

Clearly he was talking about Cellar.  A bonus Cellar card ships with every Adventures set.

Now who's better, warehouse

[Sten-Åke]

It's an Attack type card even when it doesn't (can't) attack. Could you take advantage of it?
Has anyone tested how well the new reaction card caravan guard interacts with giant?

[Burning Skull]

It's an Attack type card even when it doesn't (can't) attack. Could you take advantage of it?

You can reveal on attack reactions to Giant's attack whatever the position of attacker's Travel token is, if that is what you are asking about.
Giant is actually not the first attack card which does not always attack (Minion, Pirate Ship, Rogue etc).

Has anyone tested how well the new reaction card caravan guard interacts with giant?

Caravan Guard does not interact with Giant in any special way: it is a soft counter to any attack. The better reaction to Giant's attack may be, say, Secret Chamber.

[werothegreat]

It's an Attack type card even when it doesn't (can't) attack. Could you take advantage of it?

You can reveal on attack reactions to Giant's attack whatever the position of attacker's Travel token is, if that is what you are asking about.
Giant is actually not the first attack card which does not always attack (Minion, Pirate Ship, Rogue etc).

Has anyone tested how well the new reaction card caravan guard interacts with giant?

Caravan Guard does not interact with Giant in any special way: it is a soft counter to any attack. The better reaction to Giant's attack may be, say, Beggar.

FTFY

[Burning Skull]

FTFY

Definitely not going to start an edge case war here.

[werothegreat]

FTFY

Definitely not going to start an edge case war here.

What?  Giant is going to hit you no matter what you put there, and Silver is probably the best card to lose.  Beggar makes sure you don't get a Curse, and gives you a net gain in cards.  Secret Chamber might be able to put something you don't mind missing on top, but that's still either a Curse gain or a net loss in cards.

[pacovf]

Secret Chamber + Watchtower.

 

[Burning Skull]

and Silver is probably the best card to lose

Beggar ... gives you a net gain in cards.  Secret Chamber might be able to put something you don't mind missing on top, but that's still either a Curse gain or a net loss in cards.

As an example: getting rid of Moneylender when your Coppers are gone and Silver is bad for your deck is better then keeping it and getting extra Silver.
Also Fortress, Rats.

I believe it's really far from being the end of the list

[eHalcyon]

It's an Attack type card even when it doesn't (can't) attack. Could you take advantage of it?

You can reveal on attack reactions to Giant's attack whatever the position of attacker's Travel token is, if that is what you are asking about.
Giant is actually not the first attack card which does not always attack (Minion, Pirate Ship, Rogue etc).

Has anyone tested how well the new reaction card caravan guard interacts with giant?

Caravan Guard does not interact with Giant in any special way: it is a soft counter to any attack. The better reaction to Giant's attack may be, say, Moat.

FTFY

FTFY

[Witherweaver]

It's an Attack type card even when it doesn't (can't) attack. Could you take advantage of it?

You can reveal on attack reactions to Giant's attack whatever the position of attacker's Travel token is, if that is what you are asking about.
Giant is actually not the first attack card which does not always attack (Minion, Pirate Ship, Rogue etc).

Has anyone tested how well the new reaction card caravan guard interacts with giant?

Caravan Guard does not interact with Giant in any special way: it is a soft counter to any attack. The better reaction to Giant's attack may be, say, Moat.

FTFY

FTFY

FTFY

[TheOthin]

Secret Chamber + Watchtower.

 

Even lets you discard the Secret Chamber!