Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 11 12 [13] 14 15 ... 19  All

Author Topic: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance  (Read 218482 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Gherald

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 676
  • Awe: +35
  • Respect: +1397
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #300 on: April 05, 2015, 02:29:28 pm »
0

Using Lost Arts on Navigator should be pretty cute. Way better than having the +1 Action token on Scout. I think Navigator suffers more than most Action cards from being terminal, as it makes Navigator a lot harder to use as part of a synergy.
Is this a really subtle Scout joke? Because you didn't word it in a way that reads like joking.

Lost Arts on Scout is nearly the most pointless use that you could come up with.  (Why make your Scout a glorified Necropolis, when you can just put the action token on any card you actually want to play regularly?)

Even Lost Arts on Ruins is going to be more often useful than on Scout.

The completely pointless use would be Tactician, I guess.

But anyway, of course Navigator benefits and becomes a tad more like Cartographer in terms of usefulness.  It's still a rather sorry board, though, if this is your best use of Lost Arts.
Logged
My opponent has more loot than me

XerxesPraelor

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1069
  • Respect: +364
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #301 on: April 05, 2015, 02:31:05 pm »
0

Now I want to win a game by placing the Lost Arts token on Tactician
Logged

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9187
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #302 on: April 05, 2015, 03:46:13 pm »
0

Using Lost Arts on Navigator should be pretty cute. Way better than having the +1 Action token on Scout. I think Navigator suffers more than most Action cards from being terminal, as it makes Navigator a lot harder to use as part of a synergy.

Note that the recent discussion about Scout is for Inheritance, not Lost Arts.
Logged

joel88s

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 140
  • Respect: +169
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #303 on: April 05, 2015, 03:57:57 pm »
0

Does sound pretty gruesome. Of course, we don't know yet for sure the rules about how Events/Tokens interact with Possession. Maybe Events purchased accrue to the possessor, like Cards? Maybe the possessor can move his own tokens but not the possessed's, or vice versa, or both...?

Those things don't sound likely because they would pretty much have to be errata on Possession, which is something Donald doesn't really do.

When you are a playing a Possession turn, it is still your opponents turn.  You are making all decisions for them. Cards they would gain are instead gained by you.  Since Events are not cards you gain, Possession says nothing about them, and they would effect the current player (your opponent) without any rule modifications (other than you making the decisions, e.g. where the tokens go).

This is similar to how VP tokens go to the Possessed player, because nothing in the Possession rules say otherwise. 

No. Gained cards only go the the possessor because possession says so on the card. It wouldn't make any sense at all for a rule to be introduced into the rule book of Adventures that changes the wording of another card. Possession would have to be reprinted with new wording which won't happen.
 
Clearly Possession says nothing about Events or Tokens, which didn't exist till a couple of weeks from now, just as it says nothing about VP tokens. And I think equally clearly Possession is not going to be reprinted.

I disagree that new rules or 'FAQ' regarding pre-existing cards are categorically impossible or senseless. "Here's a new game concept, it has its own rules. Tokens: Rule N: Tokens [or the following Tokens, or cards on the Tavern mat] may not be moved by a Possessing player." Period. If you make the game you can make the rules that you think make it play the best.

However if as you say Donald is disinclined to anything resembling back-editing, then you're probably right that these nightmare-combos will not be excluded, and fall like Pos/Amb etc. into the learn-the-hard-way category. Although the difference is, once you learn you can avoid buying Amb if Possession is in the game, but you can't prevent an Event from being available, at least not directly.

I can see how the ensuing bloodbaths of Ruined Estates could be amusing though. And of course we literally haven't seen the half of them.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 04:02:18 pm by joel88s »
Logged

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3846
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2437
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #304 on: April 05, 2015, 05:47:50 pm »
0

Using Lost Arts on Navigator should be pretty cute. Way better than having the +1 Action token on Scout. I think Navigator suffers more than most Action cards from being terminal, as it makes Navigator a lot harder to use as part of a synergy.
Is this a really subtle Scout joke? Because you didn't word it in a way that reads like joking.

Lost Arts on Scout is nearly the most pointless use that you could come up with.  (Why make your Scout a glorified Necropolis, when you can just put the action token on any card you actually want to play regularly?)

Even Lost Arts on Ruins is going to be more often useful than on Scout.

The completely pointless use would be Tactician, I guess.

But anyway, of course Navigator benefits and becomes a tad more like Cartographer in terms of usefulness.  It's still a rather sorry board, though, if this is your best use of Lost Arts.
This is not meant to be a joke. I find it quite interesting that Navigator and Scout both have the reordering ability, but adding +1 Action to Navigator is way more useful than giving it to Scout. Like, why does Navigator being nonterminal seem so much better? Well, Navigator gives +$2, and can discard 5 junk cards, whereas Scout can only deal with VP cards.

The again, you probably wouldn't want more than a couple of Navigators.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 05:49:11 pm by markusin »
Logged

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2941
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2466
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #305 on: April 05, 2015, 06:47:07 pm »
0

Since I forgot to give my power level thoughts on these events, I doubt I would do so.

Lost Arts seems pretty strong. It can create Anything that gives +Action into a village. If you already have a smooth engine, it allows you to add further reliability by making a terminal into a non-terminal. Putting this on an Envoy or Smithy would be pretty awesome. On super strong engine boards, you might be able to skip this where the village support and trashing are really good. Also, this won't be much good in slogs.

Borrow: Now, this is a nice card. So, for the rest of the game, I essentially have a coin token available to me, but with the drawback of not being able to buy a card. I can really see this getting used a lot. It guarantees a $5 opening. On a 5/2 with Baker, we can live the dream an open a $7. Anyway, how often have we wanted to hit a certain price point but were a $1 short. Quit often. So, yah, I think this will be pretty good, but not super powerful.

Inheritance: Oh man. Already, this is my favorite card from the set. It's so beautiful. I love how it costs $7. Dominion is sorely lacking in cards at that price point. Anyway, even if strong trashing, you might still want to buy this if there are $4 or under costs really worth getting. Then, suddenly estates are now super estates. With cost reducers, estates can sometimes even become a $5 cost or higher!!! I'm not sure how powerful this card will actually be, but I know it will be a lot of fun, and finally we have a card that makes estates matter (except Silk Roads).
Logged

Flip5ide

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 274
  • Highest Rank/Rating: 58/5600
  • Respect: +136
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #306 on: April 05, 2015, 06:47:54 pm »
+1

Anyone else feel Borrow's card art is way out of place?
Logged
"If at first you don't succeed, find out if the loser gets anything." - William Lyon Phelps

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2941
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2466
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #307 on: April 05, 2015, 06:56:23 pm »
+1

Anyone else feel Borrow's card art is way out of place?

It looks like Dominion art from other expansions. lol. Overall though, the art for this expansion is pretty amazing. Did RGG decide to give this set a larger budget than normal or something?
Logged

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3846
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2437
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #308 on: April 05, 2015, 07:49:18 pm »
0

Anyone else feel Borrow's card art is way out of place?

It looks like Dominion art from other expansions. lol. Overall though, the art for this expansion is pretty amazing. Did RGG decide to give this set a larger budget than normal or something?
For the most part I agree. But I'm sorry, in Giant's art it looks like someone photoshopped someone's head on top of the giant's shoulders. It looks too life-like compared to the rest of the art. Uncanny Valley, man.
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4995
  • Respect: +5345
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #309 on: April 05, 2015, 08:34:33 pm »
+2

I don't mind strange art. Dominion had varying styles from the start and i appreciate that variety. There will be some images that look goofy or off, but i still like how it gives cards their own character.
Logged

silvern

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 126
  • Respect: +170
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #310 on: April 05, 2015, 08:43:54 pm »
+1

Man, looking at these things, I feel like the whole point of this expansion was just a way for Donald to get the Rules Questions section flowing again…..
Logged

chipperMDW

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 367
  • Respect: +813
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #311 on: April 05, 2015, 10:18:14 pm »
+4

Borrow: Now, this is a nice card. So, for the rest of the game, I essentially have a coin token available to me, but with the drawback of not being able to buy a card.
But it doesn't really cost you the ability to buy a card, does it? I mean, you have to use a Buy to get its effect, but then it gives you the +1 Buy back. So it's like a "buytrip."
Logged

enfynet

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1691
  • Respect: +1162
    • View Profile
    • JD's Custom Clubs
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #312 on: April 05, 2015, 10:57:36 pm »
0

Borrow: Now, this is a nice card. So, for the rest of the game, I essentially have a coin token available to me, but with the drawback of not being able to buy a card.
But it doesn't really cost you the ability to buy a card, does it? I mean, you have to use a Buy to get its effect, but then it gives you the +1 Buy back. So it's like a "buytrip."
Agreed. Costing $0 and returning the Buy you used essentially makes it a "free" coin, like the coin token analogy, with the drawback being the restriction on your next draw.
Logged
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious."

AJD

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3292
  • Shuffle iT Username: AJD
  • Respect: +4434
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #313 on: April 05, 2015, 11:05:58 pm »
+3

Borrow: Now, this is a nice card. So, for the rest of the game, I essentially have a coin token available to me, but with the drawback of not being able to buy a card.
But it doesn't really cost you the ability to buy a card, does it? I mean, you have to use a Buy to get its effect, but then it gives you the +1 Buy back. So it's like a "buytrip."
Agreed. Costing $0 and returning the Buy you used essentially makes it a "free" coin, like the coin token analogy, with the drawback being the restriction on your next draw.

…It's an Oasis variant, isn't it.
Logged

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8172
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Let me tell you a secret...
  • Respect: +9625
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #314 on: April 06, 2015, 12:31:25 am »
+4

I just realized Borrow makes Scavenger/Stash even more reliable.  There's no chance of drawing your second Scavenger, and it makes the combo immune to Minions.
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5477
  • Respect: +2860
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #315 on: April 06, 2015, 02:42:12 am »
+3

I just realized Borrow makes Scavenger/Stash even more reliable.  There's no chance of drawing your second Scavenger, and it makes the combo immune to Minions.

4 Card interaction! *pulls fire alarm of relevance*
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4995
  • Respect: +5345
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #316 on: April 06, 2015, 02:48:31 am »
0

I just realized Borrow makes Scavenger/Stash even more reliable.  There's no chance of drawing your second Scavenger, and it makes the combo immune to Minions.

4 Card interaction! *pulls fire alarm of relevance*

Minion is not required and Borrow not a kingdom card, though.
Logged

Gherald

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 676
  • Awe: +35
  • Respect: +1397
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #317 on: April 06, 2015, 02:59:41 am »
0

Scavenger/Stash is a thing. So wero's point is that adding Borrow makes it foolproof, and as a bonus it can't be minioned away.
Quote
Borrow not a kingdom card, though.
He didn't specify kingdom cards, and this is of almost no significance to the point of relevance. You're only slightly more likely to see a given event card than a given kingdom card in combination with whatever else.
Logged
My opponent has more loot than me

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2941
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2466
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #318 on: April 06, 2015, 06:26:48 am »
0

Borrow: Now, this is a nice card. So, for the rest of the game, I essentially have a coin token available to me, but with the drawback of not being able to buy a card.
But it doesn't really cost you the ability to buy a card, does it? I mean, you have to use a Buy to get its effect, but then it gives you the +1 Buy back. So it's like a "buytrip."

I meant to say give up a draw. That was a typo on my behalf.
Logged

Elanchana

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 697
  • Princess of Derpminion
  • Respect: +1013
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #319 on: April 06, 2015, 07:30:44 pm »
0

I feel like there's a fair amount of timing strategy involved in Lost Arts. Suppose there was a specific terminal you wanted to de-terminalize, but you're having a hard time getting to $6. Do you buy more of that terminal, to win the split? Do you buy more money, to help you get Lost Arts? Do you buy other components that you need for your deck? I know timing questions are everywhere in Dominion, but Lost Arts seems to put a new spin on them.
Logged
Sure it's just a game. The same way that your best friend in the whole world is "just a friend".

TwitchYouTubeMusic

!!CHANGED MY USERNAME ON 2.0!!

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2849
  • Respect: +1559
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #320 on: April 06, 2015, 08:14:17 pm »
+2

I forget whether this has been mentioned already, but one thing strong about Lost Arts in uniform-random kingdoms is that it's a village that doesn't occupy a kingdom slot. That means you have 10 other kingdom cards that could complement a village in an engine, instead of just 9, as is the case with other villages.
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7495
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10721
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #321 on: April 06, 2015, 08:19:02 pm »
+1

Another strong thing about Lost Arts is absolutely everything. It's super strong.
Logged

Gherald

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 676
  • Awe: +35
  • Respect: +1397
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #322 on: April 06, 2015, 08:36:06 pm »
+1

Yes, and a bargain as a cost.

Since you only have one +1 action token, I think that price point makes sense to have it be less swingy.  Seems like it'll be a must-buy upwards of 90% of the time
Logged
My opponent has more loot than me

GreyICE

  • Scout
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 43
  • Respect: +13
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #323 on: April 06, 2015, 08:46:12 pm »
0

Lost Arts is less an engine component, and more an engine creator.  It turns all sorts of random stuff into an engine. 

Take Conspirator.  On its own, hard to build around, because multiples gum up your hand, so you get to add it as grease to the engine.  Add Lost Arts and you can just collide Conspirators as much as you want.  Buy as many as you want!  It's absurd. 

A lot of +2 card cards become much stronger as Labs.  Oracle-Labs, Moat-Labs, these are all cards you can gain rapidly and turn into an engine. 

Attaching this to any duration card is obscene.  Wharf with a side of village on the 2nd?  Sure! 

I don't know if it's a strong buy in a board with a strong engine.  I think it's not a great $6 for that.  It's more about making an engine from scratch. 
Logged

Mic Qsenoch

  • 2015 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1709
  • Respect: +4329
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #324 on: April 06, 2015, 08:49:34 pm »
0

Attaching this to any duration card is obscene.  Wharf with a side of village on the 2nd?  Sure! 
+action token only works the turn the card is played, so no extra bonus with Durations. The Duration aspect is generally a drawback with the token, though of course a Duration might still be the best target.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 11 12 [13] 14 15 ... 19  All
 

Page created in 0.123 seconds with 21 queries.