Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 ... 19  All

Author Topic: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance  (Read 80487 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6788
  • Respect: +7614
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #200 on: April 03, 2015, 09:04:31 pm »
+1

Thanks; that was really useful. I understand there will a FAQ on this, but, in general, I can see where if card text refers to the card name, and it ain't "Estate", then you're all done. Is the use of the word "this" neutral enough for you to play "as if" it were the same card?
"This" means the card, whatever that card is. It works when the card gets Inherited.

So specifically, Urchin's card text reads: When you play another Attack card with this in play, you may trash this. If you do, gain a Mercenary from the Mercenary pile.

This leads me to believe that if you put your Estate token on Urchin, you can trash an Estate played as an attack if you play another attack (which could be another Estate played as if it were an Urchin). Is that right?
Yes.

And then there's cases like Pirate Ship, whose text reads: Choose one: Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck, trashes a revealed Treasure that you choose, discards the rest, and if anyone trashed a Treasure you take a Coin token; or, +$1 per Coin token you’ve taken with Pirate Ships this game.

(Emphasis added by me.) In this case, it seems like if you put your Estate token on Pirate ship, that you can take choice 1...but then have to put the Coin token gained some place that's not the Pirate Ship mat since the second choice tells you that only Coin tokens "taken with Pirate Ship" yield money. But by the same token (heh), maybe you can play Estate and take the second option and get money for the tokens on your Pirate Ship mat, if there are any. (Again, no suggestion you would actually want to do that, but...seems possible.
I am tentatively ruling that it counts all of the tokens on the mat. Obv. that's not what it literally says.

Pirate Ship has that wording due to originally having no mat. And then not having the work put into it to have the best possible wording once it had a mat. Trade Route was similar but then it got a better wording that accounted for the mat. That's just some history, it's not really relevant but there it is.

In my opinion, this is the only sensible ruling. Literal wording isn't as important as intention and clarity.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

TheOthin

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 439
  • Shuffle iT Username: TheOthin
  • Respect: +423
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #201 on: April 03, 2015, 10:11:55 pm »
+3

Pirate Ship is kind of a special case because it isn't played according to its wording anyway. I remember my first game with it, we were all confused and asked what the hell a coin token was and someone said you can spend them to make coins and so we started using the Pirate Ship tokens as Guilds coin tokens but still trying to track them for Pirate Ship purposes.
Logged

Rubby

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 170
  • Respect: +320
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #202 on: April 03, 2015, 10:23:07 pm »
+2

Wow, never realized until just now that Pirate Ship's wording was kind of already broken. "Take a Coin token" on Pirate Ship means something fundamentally different from the exact same phrase on the Guilds cards. Certainly if the Guilds cards had existed when Pirate Ship was made, the Pirate Ship tokens would have been given a different name.
Logged

swedenman

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 148
  • Respect: +118
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #203 on: April 03, 2015, 10:32:16 pm »
+1

Does the set-aside card for Inheritance count as part of your deck for Gardens/Vineyard purposes? I would imagine it does.
Logged

Donald X.

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4793
  • Respect: +19500
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #204 on: April 03, 2015, 10:35:43 pm »
+1

Does the set-aside card for Inheritance count as part of your deck for Gardens/Vineyard purposes? I would imagine it does.
Yes.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6788
  • Respect: +7614
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #205 on: April 03, 2015, 10:37:51 pm »
+8

Does the set-aside card for Inheritance count as part of your deck for Gardens/Vineyard purposes? I would imagine it does.
Yes.

Now this I wouldn't have guessed. Because you never gained that card; I assumed it wasn't in any way part of your deck.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9136
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #206 on: April 03, 2015, 10:50:23 pm »
+4

Wow, never realized until just now that Pirate Ship's wording was kind of already broken. "Take a Coin token" on Pirate Ship means something fundamentally different from the exact same phrase on the Guilds cards. Certainly if the Guilds cards had existed when Pirate Ship was made, the Pirate Ship tokens would have been given a different name.

We were all over that during the Guilds previews. :))
Logged

AJD

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2856
  • Shuffle iT Username: AJD
  • Respect: +3551
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #207 on: April 03, 2015, 11:01:48 pm »
+4

But when does the card become "mine"?
It's yours if you started with it, or bought it, or gained it, or were passed it.

It stops being yours if you trash it, or return it, or pass it.

I don't have the rulebook handy so maybe I am missing something. Aha, it's also yours/not due to exchanges.
It also stops being yours when you are preventing from getting it due to Possession or Trader.

So in other words, you can Inherit a Noble Brigand, and then buy an Estate, triggering the on-buy attack of Noble Brigand, and then reveal a Trader and gain a Silver?
Logged

Donald X.

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4793
  • Respect: +19500
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #208 on: April 03, 2015, 11:03:29 pm »
+5

So in other words, you can Inherit a Noble Brigand, and then buy an Estate, triggering the on-buy attack of Noble Brigand, and then reveal a Trader and gain a Silver?
Yes, you can do that.
Logged

Donald X.

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4793
  • Respect: +19500
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #209 on: April 03, 2015, 11:04:49 pm »
+3

Does the set-aside card for Inheritance count as part of your deck for Gardens/Vineyard purposes? I would imagine it does.
Yes.

Now this I wouldn't have guessed. Because you never gained that card; I assumed it wasn't in any way part of your deck.
When you reach the end of a game, and that card is sitting there, it will feel like yours.
Logged

enfynet

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1682
  • Respect: +1145
    • View Profile
    • JD's Custom Clubs
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #210 on: April 03, 2015, 11:28:24 pm »
0

Does the set-aside card for Inheritance count as part of your deck for Gardens/Vineyard purposes? I would imagine it does.
Yes.

Now this I wouldn't have guessed. Because you never gained that card; I assumed it wasn't in any way part of your deck.
When you reach the end of a game, and that card is sitting there, it will feel like yours.
Does this mean cards "Set Aside" with Inheritance also count towards 3-pile? As in, the cards are no longer in the supply? This is getting weird. (I like it.)
Logged
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious."

Donald X.

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4793
  • Respect: +19500
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #211 on: April 03, 2015, 11:32:53 pm »
+2

Does this mean cards "Set Aside" with Inheritance also count towards 3-pile? As in, the cards are no longer in the supply? This is getting weird. (I like it.)
Using Inheritance removes a (single copy of one) card from the Supply. No-one can buy it / gain it. We need it sitting there set aside so we know what your Estates do. I mean they might be Sir Martin. This is not a confusing thing. When you set aside the card it will be clear that it's no longer in the pile.
Logged

Gherald

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 430
  • Awe: +35
  • Respect: +809
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #212 on: April 03, 2015, 11:52:05 pm »
+2

Bridge and Inheritance seems like an easy combo to make your Estates a cost

Usually when we think of cost reducer-enablers for something like this we think of Highway, since its easier to e.g. play 3 Highways and then Altar a copper into a Province, or 1 Highway and then set another of your Highways aside with Prince.  Highway's action is convenient in those lineups.

But Inheritance is just something you buy, so a simple Bridge to turn your estates into (say) Hunting Parties will do, and that Bridge will help you gain more "Hunting Estates"

The price of the event itself is fixed, however - seems Highway/Bridge don't make events cheaper:

Event cards give you something to buy; that thing is not a card. There will be a rulebook and it will say stuff just like this.
Logged
thank you for participating in this enrichment center activity

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7973
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Prepare to be boarded!
  • Respect: +9183
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #213 on: April 04, 2015, 12:01:16 am »
+1

Given Borrow's wording, would I be correct in assuming that if your -1 Card token was already on your deck for some reason, buying Borrow would give you another Buy, but would not give you the $1?
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6826
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +9345
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #214 on: April 04, 2015, 12:03:12 am »
+3

Given Borrow's wording, would I be correct in assuming that if your -1 Card token was already on your deck for some reason, buying Borrow would give you another Buy, but would not give you the $1?

Correct. It wouldn't do anything except make Messengers you buy on that turn not have their on-buy effect.
Logged

joel88s

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 140
  • Respect: +166
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #215 on: April 04, 2015, 12:27:00 am »
+7

Does the set-aside card for Inheritance count as part of your deck for Gardens/Vineyard purposes? I would imagine it does.
Yes.

Now this I wouldn't have guessed. Because you never gained that card; I assumed it wasn't in any way part of your deck.
When you reach the end of a game, and that card is sitting there, it will feel like yours.


Classic writer's answer to an engineer's question.
Logged

nemryn

  • Ambassador
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 34
  • Respect: +17
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #216 on: April 04, 2015, 01:19:44 am »
+1

I suspect that the -1 Card from Borrow will be more painful than it seems at first. Giving your opponent a free Urchin+ isn't the end of the world, but it's probably not something you want to make a habit of doing either.
Logged

TheOthin

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 439
  • Shuffle iT Username: TheOthin
  • Respect: +423
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #217 on: April 04, 2015, 01:28:14 am »
+3

I suspect that the -1 Card from Borrow will be more painful than it seems at first. Giving your opponent a free Urchin+ isn't the end of the world, but it's probably not something you want to make a habit of doing either.

It's worse than Urchin because you don't get to pick; it's more like hitting yourself with Minion without the cycling.
Logged

ephesos

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 310
  • Shuffle iT Username: Ephesos
  • Respect: +262
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #218 on: April 04, 2015, 01:32:17 am »
0

What about Inherited Crossroads? They say "If this is the first time you have played a Crossroads this turn", so I would think that playing an Estate is not the first time you played a Crossroads, and you wouldn't get +3 Actions. But it seems needlessly self referential.
Logged

ephesos

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 310
  • Shuffle iT Username: Ephesos
  • Respect: +262
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #219 on: April 04, 2015, 01:32:52 am »
0

I suspect that the -1 Card from Borrow will be more painful than it seems at first. Giving your opponent a free Urchin+ isn't the end of the world, but it's probably not something you want to make a habit of doing either.

It's worse than Urchin because you don't get to pick; it's more like hitting yourself with Minion without the cycling.
And that's why it's Urchin+: it's plus for your opponent and minus for you.
Logged

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9136
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #220 on: April 04, 2015, 02:02:07 am »
0

What about Inherited Crossroads? They say "If this is the first time you have played a Crossroads this turn", so I would think that playing an Estate is not the first time you played a Crossroads, and you wouldn't get +3 Actions. But it seems needlessly self referential.

Inherited Crossroads does not give you +actions.
 
So, one can't get +3 action with Estate Crossroad because playing an estate is not "your first time you play a crossroad"?
Correct.
Logged

matste

  • Alchemist
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 37
  • Respect: +60
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #221 on: April 04, 2015, 02:40:21 am »
0

Let's say that Transmute is referring to the state of the card at the moment it checks (like Procession); thus it will no longer be your Estate with all that means.
Does this apply to all "Trash for X" cards? For example with a Quarry in play your inherited Scouts are worth 0, so if they get swindled, you may end up with a Curse. And if you Salvage them, you get +0$.
Logged

faust

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1950
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +2716
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #222 on: April 04, 2015, 04:09:28 am »
+1

Not read through everything, but quick thoughts:

Inheritance/Baron seems crazy good.  Baron helps spike $7 early, and then Baron turns into: "+1 buy, choose one: discard action card X and +$4, or gain action card X", which seems really nice.

Borrow actually counters Minion strategies a bit, that's cool.
Logged
Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Sidsel

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 121
  • Respect: +171
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #223 on: April 04, 2015, 06:01:14 am »
+2

Am I right in thinking that Lost Arts + Duration cards only add the +Action to the turn it is played? So Caravan becomes a village first turn - but still stays at +1 Card on the second turn?

Also,  recently played a fun game of Grand Market + Quarry. I'm trying to imagine Inheritance+GM+Q, but the image is blurry due to my eyes being full of $$$$$ signs.
Q+2Golds = Defines the Grand Estate.
Every Grand Estate played afterwards nets me another one...
Logged

qmech

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1915
  • Shuffle iT Username: qmech
  • What year is it?
  • Respect: +2306
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #224 on: April 04, 2015, 07:05:20 am »
+1

Am I right in thinking that Lost Arts + Duration cards only add the +Action to the turn it is played? So Caravan becomes a village first turn - but still stays at +1 Card on the second turn?

Yes, you only "play" the card the first time, although it remains "in play".  (Compare Peddler and Conspirator.)
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 ... 19  All
 

Page created in 0.115 seconds with 21 queries.