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Author Topic: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance  (Read 109849 times)

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mborda

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #50 on: April 03, 2015, 10:43:27 am »
0

I am guessing that the +1 action token is no longer effective once the supply pile you put it on its empty (a la band of misfits)? Or is it viable for the rest of the game, regardless?

I suppose it is still effective, as you set aside the card (and also it would prevent that card to be bought and count towards emptying the pile).

That's why it prevents setting aside Victory cards. If not, you could set aside the last Province for $7 if you want to trigger the end of the game.
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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #51 on: April 03, 2015, 10:43:46 am »
0

The -1 card token goes on your draw pile, and the time you would draw a card, instead you just take the token off your draw pile. So if you would draw 5 cards, you draw 4 and remove the token. The Action token goes on a supply pile and is not affected by people buying cards from that pile.

I don't get that from the cards themselves though. Is the difference because it's on my deck rather than a supply pile, or is it because it's the -1 card token rather than the +1 action? Is it just 'something you need to know'?

PPE: I don't think this will get posted within half an hour between frequent replies and forum slowness...

PPE2: Hey, the tokens have text? That probably solves everything.

bedlam

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #52 on: April 03, 2015, 10:44:38 am »
+1

So are the tokens part of the base setup now, or are they only in use when there is an event that calls for any specific token?
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Donald X.

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #53 on: April 03, 2015, 10:45:11 am »
+2

What happen when you put estate token on Sir Martin? (And ruins)?
What happen when the pile of knight or ruins run out?
You set aside the card with the token. So Inheritance on Sir Martin makes your Estates into Sir Martins and that's that; the other Knights aren't involved. Inheritance on Ruined Market makes your Estates produce +1 Buy, etc.

It doesn't matter what happens to the pile you got the card you Inheritanced. Inheritance works on a card not on a pile, and that card is set aside and in front of you. Which was necessary to handle the Knights and Ruins.
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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #54 on: April 03, 2015, 10:47:51 am »
+1

So if I have a -1 Card token on my deck and play a Mystic, it'll reveal that -1 Card token, or the card under it?  If it's the latter, that means it removes the token instead of drawing a correctly guessed card?
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mborda

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #55 on: April 03, 2015, 10:48:54 am »
0

I am guessing that the +1 action token is no longer effective once the supply pile you put it on its empty (a la band of misfits)? Or is it viable for the rest of the game, regardless?
The token works even if the pile is empty, and can be put on an empty pile.

So, if the pile is empty, and we can't set aside the card, we get the benefit anyway?  ???
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Donald X.

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #56 on: April 03, 2015, 10:49:28 am »
+1

I am guessing that the +1 action token is no longer effective once the supply pile you put it on its empty (a la band of misfits)? Or is it viable for the rest of the game, regardless?

I suppose it is still effective, as you set aside the card (and also it would prevent that card to be bought and count towards emptying the pile).

That's why it prevents setting aside Victory cards. If not, you could set aside the last Province for $7 if you want to trigger the end of the game.
Lost Arts does not set aside a card; Inheritance does.

Inheritance doesn't allow Victory cards because they were too automatic. It's also confusing.
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Donald X.

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #57 on: April 03, 2015, 10:50:33 am »
+4

So are the tokens part of the base setup now, or are they only in use when there is an event that calls for any specific token?
The tokens are only used when they're used! I'm not sure what you're thinking of doing with them when nothing uses them.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #58 on: April 03, 2015, 10:50:40 am »
+13

So if I have a -1 Card token on my deck and play a Mystic, it'll reveal that -1 Card token, or the card under it?  If it's the latter, that means it removes the token instead of drawing a correctly guessed card?

The -1 Card token does not affect Mystic at all. The token stays on your deck regardless of whether you guessed right.

The -1 Card token only affects three things:

- When a card says +X Cards
- When a card uses the word "draw" (except Envoy, which shouldn't use "draw" but does)
- When you draw your new hand at the end of a turn

Everything else skips past the token and the token stays on your deck.

So for instance, let's say your token is on your deck and you play Catacombs.



You still look at 3 cards. If you choose to put them into your hand, then that's the end and the token stays. If you discard them and get +3 Cards, you'd remove the token and draw 2 cards.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 10:52:44 am by LastFootnote »
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managore

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #59 on: April 03, 2015, 10:51:22 am »
+1

I am guessing that the +1 action token is no longer effective once the supply pile you put it on its empty (a la band of misfits)? Or is it viable for the rest of the game, regardless?
The token works even if the pile is empty, and can be put on an empty pile.

So, if the pile is empty, and we can't set aside the card, we get the benefit anyway?  ???

You set aside cards with estate tokens, not action tokens.
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jonts26

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #60 on: April 03, 2015, 10:51:38 am »
0

One nice thing about borrow is it can help mitigate opening split luck with a critical $5. I mean, you'd still rather not have to gimp your next turn for that mountebank but it's better than not getting one at all.
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Donald X.

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #61 on: April 03, 2015, 10:52:34 am »
+3

So if I have a -1 Card token on my deck and play a Mystic, it'll reveal that -1 Card token, or the card under it?  If it's the latter, that means it removes the token instead of drawing a correctly guessed card?
The token isn't a card so it isn't revealed when revealing cards. Revealing a card doesn't remove the token. Mystic doesn't draw a card, it puts a card into your hand. It's just not affected by the token other than managing it physically.
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liopoil

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #62 on: April 03, 2015, 10:54:17 am »
+1

Wait actually you could open Inheritance/Watchtower, turn your Estates into Processions, and I think that'd be enough?
Very very close to enough, but I don't think you can get the fortress in hand quickly enough. However, I have an idea... let's move this to the empty supply in 3 turns thread.
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mborda

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #63 on: April 03, 2015, 10:57:57 am »
0

I am guessing that the +1 action token is no longer effective once the supply pile you put it on its empty (a la band of misfits)? Or is it viable for the rest of the game, regardless?

I suppose it is still effective, as you set aside the card (and also it would prevent that card to be bought and count towards emptying the pile).

That's why it prevents setting aside Victory cards. If not, you could set aside the last Province for $7 if you want to trigger the end of the game.
Lost Arts does not set aside a card; Inheritance does.

Inheritance doesn't allow Victory cards because they were too automatic. It's also confusing.


Sorry, my mistake!!! :)
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AJD

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #64 on: April 03, 2015, 10:59:12 am »
0

I observe that Estates Inherit the "abilities and types" of other cards, but not their names or costs. So if my Estates Inherit, say, Ironmongering, then I infer Procession+Estate would gain me a $3, as would Ironmonger + Estate + Horn of Plenty?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #65 on: April 03, 2015, 10:59:20 am »
+1

The -1 card token goes on your draw pile, and the time you would draw a card, instead you just take the token off your draw pile. So if you would draw 5 cards, you draw 4 and remove the token. The Action token goes on a supply pile and is not affected by people buying cards from that pile.
And in fact the -1 Card token has text on it, you don't just need to consult the rulebook there. It says something like "When you would draw a card, remove this instead."

What about revealing/looking at cards?

The only time you would place that token on your deck is when you buy the event at the end of your turn, then it is removed immediately when you draw your cards for your next hand, so you would never have to reveal cards while the token is on your deck right?

You are assuming that there aren't other cards or events which refer to the token.
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jonts26

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #66 on: April 03, 2015, 11:04:51 am »
+1

The -1 card token goes on your draw pile, and the time you would draw a card, instead you just take the token off your draw pile. So if you would draw 5 cards, you draw 4 and remove the token. The Action token goes on a supply pile and is not affected by people buying cards from that pile.
And in fact the -1 Card token has text on it, you don't just need to consult the rulebook there. It says something like "When you would draw a card, remove this instead."

What about revealing/looking at cards?

The only time you would place that token on your deck is when you buy the event at the end of your turn, then it is removed immediately when you draw your cards for your next hand, so you would never have to reveal cards while the token is on your deck right?

You are assuming that there aren't other cards or events which refer to the token.

And Donald explicitly said minus tokens are used with multiple cards.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #67 on: April 03, 2015, 11:05:00 am »
+17

So if I have a -1 Card token on my deck and play a Mystic, it'll reveal that -1 Card token, or the card under it?  If it's the latter, that means it removes the token instead of drawing a correctly guessed card?

The -1 Card token does not affect Mystic at all. The token stays on your deck regardless of whether you guessed right.

The -1 Card token only affects three things:

- When a card says +X Cards
- When a card uses the word "draw" (except Envoy, which shouldn't use "draw" but does)
- When you draw your new hand at the end of a turn

Everything else skips past the token and the token stays on your deck.

So for instance, let's say your token is on your deck and you play Catacombs.



You still look at 3 cards. If you choose to put them into your hand, then that's the end and the token stays. If you discard them and get +3 Cards, you'd remove the token and draw 2 cards.

It now matters which order you put the cards back in for Oracle!!
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liopoil

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #68 on: April 03, 2015, 11:11:30 am »
+3

It now matters which order you put the cards back in for Oracle!!
Dude, woah.... Donald is amazing... because if he hadn't made us choose the order every time, I would be very sad when this happened.
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werothegreat

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #69 on: April 03, 2015, 11:13:29 am »
+3

Erm, these feel really convoluted. Just how many distinct tokens are we actually going to be getting with this expansion?

10.
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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #70 on: April 03, 2015, 11:15:17 am »
+4

As awesome as I think the previews have been so far, Inheritance was the first time I actually sat back and just said, "Wow."
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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #71 on: April 03, 2015, 11:20:54 am »
+7

I was at "Shut up and take my money!" at the first preview. Now I'm more at "Continue talking! (And take my money.)"

I can't wait to actually play with this stuff.
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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #72 on: April 03, 2015, 11:22:02 am »
+5

As awesome as I think the previews have been so far, Inheritance was the first time I actually sat back and just said, "Wow."

I love Inheritance so much. Probably my favorite Event, though there's tough competition there. The only thing about it is that you have to remember that your Estates aren't just dead cards. That's an adjustment for sure. When Making Fun implements it, I would love if it did a Band of Misfits-style thing, where it replaced the types and text of your Estates to remind you what they do. That's a tall order, though. And if they wanted to replace the border, some borders would have more than two colors. For instance, inherited Moats would probably be White/Blue/Green.

And yes, if you inherit a Reaction card, your Estates can all use the reaction part. It's pretty sweet.
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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #73 on: April 03, 2015, 11:31:35 am »
0

Inheritance question: The card I set aside - do I take it from the supply, from my hand, from my deck..? Must I buy it first?
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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #74 on: April 03, 2015, 11:32:29 am »
+4

My god, Borrow is UGLY.
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