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Author Topic: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance  (Read 83492 times)

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dondon151

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #450 on: April 16, 2015, 03:25:44 pm »
+2

I think in the grand scheme of Dominion, a duration attack that increases costs isn't similar at all to Cutpurse. It wouldn't reduce handsize (which could be bad or good), it would work more often, and it would reduce the value of +buy. I would say that in the majority of kingdoms, a cost increasing attack would not play at all like Cutpurse.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #451 on: April 16, 2015, 03:26:15 pm »
+2

Highwayman - Action-Attack-Duration

After your turn, and until your next turn, all cards cost more.

At the start of your next turn: +

This seems like a plausible concept for a Duration-Attack

(Donald thought so too; it turned into Cutpurse.)

But he also mentioned that when he made Seaside, there was pressure to keep Durations to a minimum. That pressure has gone, so he may think it over. I admit that since Seaside a new concern against cost increasers has raised its head, though, and that concern is the similarity of such a card to Cutpurse.

Donald has already said that there is a -$1 token. Giving a player one of these would do the same thing as increasing the cost of cards for them, except it wouldn't punish multiple buys more, and wouldn't interact with TFB.
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pacovf

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #452 on: April 16, 2015, 05:21:32 pm »
0

Donald has already said that there is a -$1 token. Giving a player one of these would do the same thing as increasing the cost of cards for them, except it wouldn't punish multiple buys more, and wouldn't interact with TFB, nor with fixed cost gainers, nor trashing attacks, nor Prince, Storyteller, Sage...

In short, it would do the same thing. :P
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jaketheyak

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #453 on: April 16, 2015, 07:54:34 pm »
0

Donald has already said that there is a -$1 token. Giving a player one of these would do the same thing as increasing the cost of cards for them, except it wouldn't punish multiple buys more, and wouldn't interact with TFB.

Isn't that just a more reliable version of Cutpurse?

I suppose it depends on what else it does.
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Jeebus

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #454 on: April 27, 2015, 12:23:22 pm »
+1

So to clarify: If I transmute Estate-Scout do I gain Gold+Transmute? I suppose not, because the card is already in the trash when the second part of Transmute is resolved. However when I trash Estate-Fortress, it goes back to my hand, doesn't it?
If you Inheritance Scouts and then Transmute an Estate, it was an Action-Victory card, so you gain a Duchy and a Gold.
The rules for Band of Misfits say when you use Procession on it and play it as, e.g., Fortress, you "gain an Action card costing exactly $6 ($1 more than Band of Misfits, which has left play and so is no longer copying Fortress)." So there, you don't care about what a thing was at the time it was trashed, but what it is at the time you're evaluating the instruction.

But here, you say you do care about what a thing was when it was trashed.

What's the difference? Do you check costs at the time of evaluation, but types at the time of trashing?
The key difference is how much time I have spent on these questions and what materials I had access to at the time.

I don't see a conversation with Doug about it, so possibly it just randomly ended up that way on isotropic.

Let's say that Transmute is referring to the state of the card at the moment it checks (like Procession); thus it will no longer be your Estate with all that means.

When-trashed things however trigger when trashed and so will happen even if the card loses that ability then.

What about if you Inheritance Urchin? "When you play another Attack card with this in play, you may trash this. If you do, gain a Mercenary from the Mercenary pile."
You did trash it, so I suppose you gain a Mercenary? (It seems like BoM-as-Feast: Even though the gain instruction comes after the card is no longer Feast, it works.)

Donald X.

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #455 on: April 27, 2015, 01:13:13 pm »
+1

What about if you Inheritance Urchin? "When you play another Attack card with this in play, you may trash this. If you do, gain a Mercenary from the Mercenary pile."
You did trash it, so I suppose you gain a Mercenary? (It seems like BoM-as-Feast: Even though the gain instruction comes after the card is no longer Feast, it works.)
If you Inheritance Urchin and trash one, you get a Mercenary.
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werothegreat

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #456 on: April 27, 2015, 01:21:52 pm »
0

Let's say that Transmute is referring to the state of the card at the moment it checks (like Procession); thus it will no longer be your Estate with all that means.

When-trashed things however trigger when trashed and so will happen even if the card loses that ability then.

Just want to check and make sure this is your final ruling - Transmute and Procession check the type/cost of a card after it has been trashed?

EDIT: This also fits with Ironworks, which is worded exactly as Transmute is.  If you didn't gain anything, you don't get any bonus.  I'm assuming if you Ironworks an Estate that has Inherited Scout, you get +1 Card/+1 Action?

EDIT2: Also, Disciple on an Inherited Estate gains you an Estate, right? 
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 01:35:40 pm by werothegreat »
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Donald X.

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #457 on: April 27, 2015, 01:50:33 pm »
+4

Let's say that Transmute is referring to the state of the card at the moment it checks (like Procession); thus it will no longer be your Estate with all that means.

When-trashed things however trigger when trashed and so will happen even if the card loses that ability then.

Just want to check and make sure this is your final ruling - Transmute and Procession check the type/cost of a card after it has been trashed?

EDIT: This also fits with Ironworks, which is worded exactly as Transmute is.  If you didn't gain anything, you don't get any bonus.  I'm assuming if you Ironworks an Estate that has Inherited Scout, you get +1 Card/+1 Action?

EDIT2: Also, Disciple on an Inherited Estate gains you an Estate, right?
Man I hope I get to make more rulings after this one.

Transmute and Procession check the type/cost of the card after it has been trashed.

If you Ironworks an action-Estate you get +1 Card +1 Action.
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TheEmerged

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #458 on: May 20, 2015, 03:28:23 pm »
0

And you could use the +Buy to buy more Estates!  Estate rushes might be a thing now actually.

I have actually seen this with Inheritance assigned to Market (thanks to Ferry).  One player bought up half the remaining Estates on a single turn.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #459 on: May 12, 2016, 12:00:07 pm »
+5

Does sound pretty gruesome. Of course, we don't know yet for sure the rules about how Events/Tokens interact with Possession. Maybe Events purchased accrue to the possessor, like Cards? Maybe the possessor can move his own tokens but not the possessed's, or vice versa, or both...?
Those things don't sound likely because they would pretty much have to be errata on Possession, which is something Donald doesn't really do.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 12:01:12 pm by ThetaSigma12 »
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spiralstaircase

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #460 on: May 12, 2016, 05:21:12 pm »
0

And you could use the +Buy to buy more Estates!  Estate rushes might be a thing now actually.

I have actually seen this with Inheritance assigned to Market (thanks to Ferry).  One player bought up half the remaining Estates on a single turn.

As I think I mentioned once before, Inheritance + Ferry + Grand Market.  Good. Times.
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Davio

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #461 on: May 13, 2016, 05:28:48 am »
+1

Let's say that Transmute is referring to the state of the card at the moment it checks (like Procession); thus it will no longer be your Estate with all that means.

When-trashed things however trigger when trashed and so will happen even if the card loses that ability then.

Just want to check and make sure this is your final ruling - Transmute and Procession check the type/cost of a card after it has been trashed?

EDIT: This also fits with Ironworks, which is worded exactly as Transmute is.  If you didn't gain anything, you don't get any bonus.  I'm assuming if you Ironworks an Estate that has Inherited Scout, you get +1 Card/+1 Action?

EDIT2: Also, Disciple on an Inherited Estate gains you an Estate, right?
Man I hope I get to make more rulings after this one.

Transmute and Procession check the type/cost of the card after it has been trashed.

If you Ironworks an action-Estate you get +1 Card +1 Action.
We need more colored dogs, blue isn't enough anymore.
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Minotaur

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #462 on: May 13, 2016, 05:23:30 pm »
0

Let's say that Transmute is referring to the state of the card at the moment it checks (like Procession); thus it will no longer be your Estate with all that means.

When-trashed things however trigger when trashed and so will happen even if the card loses that ability then.

Just want to check and make sure this is your final ruling - Transmute and Procession check the type/cost of a card after it has been trashed?

EDIT: This also fits with Ironworks, which is worded exactly as Transmute is.  If you didn't gain anything, you don't get any bonus.  I'm assuming if you Ironworks an Estate that has Inherited Scout, you get +1 Card/+1 Action?

EDIT2: Also, Disciple on an Inherited Estate gains you an Estate, right?
Man I hope I get to make more rulings after this one.

Transmute and Procession check the type/cost of the card after it has been trashed.

If you Ironworks an action-Estate you get +1 Card +1 Action.
We need more colored dogs, blue isn't enough anymore.

The last time I tried to talk about blue dogs in a thread, people got up in arms over religion, sex, politics.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #463 on: May 13, 2016, 05:34:32 pm »
+4

Let's say that Transmute is referring to the state of the card at the moment it checks (like Procession); thus it will no longer be your Estate with all that means.

When-trashed things however trigger when trashed and so will happen even if the card loses that ability then.

Just want to check and make sure this is your final ruling - Transmute and Procession check the type/cost of a card after it has been trashed?

EDIT: This also fits with Ironworks, which is worded exactly as Transmute is.  If you didn't gain anything, you don't get any bonus.  I'm assuming if you Ironworks an Estate that has Inherited Scout, you get +1 Card/+1 Action?

EDIT2: Also, Disciple on an Inherited Estate gains you an Estate, right?
Man I hope I get to make more rulings after this one.

Transmute and Procession check the type/cost of the card after it has been trashed.

If you Ironworks an action-Estate you get +1 Card +1 Action.
We need more colored dogs, blue isn't enough anymore.

The last time I tried to talk about blue dogs in a thread, people got up in arms over religion, sex, politics.

For the last time, you can't marry a dog, blue or not.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #464 on: March 23, 2018, 02:03:25 pm »
+3

It just occurred to me that with events like these on the board, Possession really lets you mess with your left opponent in ways that are even meaner than using up their coin tokens.

For example you could move their Lost Arts action token from Smithy to Chancellor (after having just brazenly taken advantage of all those supercharged smithies yourself)

If you possess them super early, you could cause their Estates to inherit Ruined Village-ness and well that's not nice.

Of course you always want to do a Borrow on your last Possession and make their next turn as if you just minioned them after the Possession

Additionally, you will have called in any Reserve cards they were waiting to play...

Possession already isn't exactly a favored card of many people, and man I can just see that dislike growing with this expansion in play.

Something to be aware of.  I guess going forward, when Possession shows up in the kingdom along with Adventuresy-stuff... take a deep breath folks. You know it's probably going to be one of those games, so be a sport and ehm try to give as good as you get.

Does sound pretty gruesome. Of course, we don't know yet for sure the rules about how Events/Tokens interact with Possession. Maybe Events purchased accrue to the possessor, like Cards? Maybe the possessor can move his own tokens but not the possessed's, or vice versa, or both...?

No. Gained cards only go the the possessor because possession says so on the card. It wouldn't make any sense at all for a rule to be introduced into the rule book of Adventures that changes the wording of another card. Possession would have to be reprinted with new wording which won't happen.

Oh.
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Asper

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #465 on: March 24, 2018, 03:50:51 pm »
0

Let's say that Transmute is referring to the state of the card at the moment it checks (like Procession); thus it will no longer be your Estate with all that means.

When-trashed things however trigger when trashed and so will happen even if the card loses that ability then.

Just want to check and make sure this is your final ruling - Transmute and Procession check the type/cost of a card after it has been trashed?

EDIT: This also fits with Ironworks, which is worded exactly as Transmute is.  If you didn't gain anything, you don't get any bonus.  I'm assuming if you Ironworks an Estate that has Inherited Scout, you get +1 Card/+1 Action?

EDIT2: Also, Disciple on an Inherited Estate gains you an Estate, right?
Man I hope I get to make more rulings after this one.

Transmute and Procession check the type/cost of the card after it has been trashed.

If you Ironworks an action-Estate you get +1 Card +1 Action.
We need more colored dogs, blue isn't enough anymore.

The last time I tried to talk about blue dogs in a thread, people got up in arms over religion, sex, politics.

For the last time, you can't marry a dog, blue or not.

"...yet.", the congressman said.
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