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Author Topic: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance  (Read 218156 times)

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Throwaway_bicycling

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #275 on: April 04, 2015, 07:31:07 pm »
+2

I couldn't agree more. The card i trashed was an action. It's not anymore, but i don't care. If i buy a red weasel, and its fur turns white, did i buy a white weasel?

If only you knew how many graduate student-years of effort had been spent on the grue paradox... but for a taste, wikipedia has a reasonable synopsis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_riddle_of_induction
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Gherald

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #276 on: April 04, 2015, 09:01:30 pm »
+7

It just occurred to me that with events like these on the board, Possession really lets you mess with your left opponent in ways that are even meaner than using up their coin tokens.

For example you could move their Lost Arts action token from Smithy to Chancellor (after having just brazenly taken advantage of all those supercharged smithies yourself)

If you possess them super early, you could cause their Estates to inherit Ruined Village-ness and well that's not nice.

Of course you always want to do a Borrow on your last Possession and make their next turn as if you just minioned them after the Possession

Additionally, you will have called in any Reserve cards they were waiting to play...

Possession already isn't exactly a favored card of many people, and man I can just see that dislike growing with this expansion in play.

Something to be aware of.  I guess going forward, when Possession shows up in the kingdom along with Adventuresy-stuff... take a deep breath folks. You know it's probably going to be one of those games, so be a sport and ehm try to give as good as you get.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 09:16:02 pm by Gherald »
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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #277 on: April 04, 2015, 11:39:26 pm »
+1

Maybe this has already been said, but Borrow could be a boon for Smithy/Courtyard BM. Those decks pick up speed if you're able to buy Gold turn 3/4 and not have your Smithy miss the shuffle, and Borrow makes this likely to happen.
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GwinnR

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #278 on: April 05, 2015, 04:43:56 am »
+4

Sorry, if this has been asked and/or answered yet:
Will the inheritated Estates be the type Victory-Action for ever, so that they count for Vineyard at the end of the game?
They are Victory-Action cards for the rest of the game, so yes they count for Vineyard.
Thanks. As also thanks for the game and your patience you have here to answer all our questions.
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dan11295

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #279 on: April 05, 2015, 10:15:51 am »
0

Question is do you ignore inheritance if Tribute is on the board? Tribute is usually a mediocre card, but suddenly your opponent is getting +2 Cards +2 Actions every time he hits an Estate. Second, given the $7 cost, and the fact you have to set aside a card in your hand, basically you are spending $7 to turn your estates into something useful. Would appear to only be worth it on board with no or weak trashing (e.g. Trade Route, Expand). Then there has to be something worth having three of on the board costing $4 or less (usually). You probably don't want 3 Sea Hags etc.

Best targets:

Baron - This synergy has already been discussed.
Tournament - If you have $7 exactly then this can really help you line up your Tournament and Province.



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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #280 on: April 05, 2015, 10:22:09 am »
+2

You don't set aside a card in your hand; you set aside one from the Supply.

From what I understand Tribute isn't a reason to stay away from multi-type cards so much as a lack of multi-type cards is a reason to stay away from Tribute.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #281 on: April 05, 2015, 10:23:07 am »
+1

, and the fact you have to set aside a card in your hand,

Wrong. You set aside a card from the supply.
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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #282 on: April 05, 2015, 10:27:00 am »
+3

Also, Baron isn't really a good target. Baron is just better wit Inheritance as you can gain more Action-Estates with it.
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shmeur

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #283 on: April 05, 2015, 10:44:10 am »
+4

Don't hate me for this, but what about SCOUT + Inherited-Tourneys.  Scout draws out the Estataments AND the Provinces.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #284 on: April 05, 2015, 10:53:10 am »
+1

Don't hate me for this, but what about SCOUT + Inherited-Tourneys.  Scout draws out the Estataments AND the Provinces.

I seriously think that Scout + inheritance could be strong in a lot of situations. Maybe especially with tournament.
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joel88s

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #285 on: April 05, 2015, 10:55:03 am »
0

It just occurred to me that with events like these on the board, Possession really lets you mess with your left opponent in ways that are even meaner than using up their coin tokens.

For example you could move their Lost Arts action token from Smithy to Chancellor (after having just brazenly taken advantage of all those supercharged smithies yourself)

If you possess them super early, you could cause their Estates to inherit Ruined Village-ness and well that's not nice.

Of course you always want to do a Borrow on your last Possession and make their next turn as if you just minioned them after the Possession

Additionally, you will have called in any Reserve cards they were waiting to play...

Possession already isn't exactly a favored card of many people, and man I can just see that dislike growing with this expansion in play.

Something to be aware of.  I guess going forward, when Possession shows up in the kingdom along with Adventuresy-stuff... take a deep breath folks. You know it's probably going to be one of those games, so be a sport and ehm try to give as good as you get.

Does sound pretty gruesome. Of course, we don't know yet for sure the rules about how Events/Tokens interact with Possession. Maybe Events purchased accrue to the possessor, like Cards? Maybe the possessor can move his own tokens but not the possessed's, or vice versa, or both...?
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shmeur

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #286 on: April 05, 2015, 11:00:59 am »
+5

Don't hate me for this, but what about SCOUT + Inherited-Tourneys.  Scout draws out the Estataments AND the Provinces.

I seriously think that Scout + inheritance could be strong in a lot of situations. Maybe especially with tournament.
And successful Tourneys can give you Followers, which give you another Estatament.
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shmeur

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #287 on: April 05, 2015, 11:04:33 am »
0

Assume a kingdom of Crossroads, Great Hall, Scout, Baron, Tournament, Inheritance, and a bunch of other useless cards.  What would be the strongest 4/3 opening?
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Deadlock39

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #288 on: April 05, 2015, 11:05:23 am »
+1

Does sound pretty gruesome. Of course, we don't know yet for sure the rules about how Events/Tokens interact with Possession. Maybe Events purchased accrue to the possessor, like Cards? Maybe the possessor can move his own tokens but not the possessed's, or vice versa, or both...?

Those things don't sound likely because they would pretty much have to be errata on Possession, which is something Donald doesn't really do.

When you are a playing a Possession turn, it is still your opponents turn.  You are making all decisions for them. Cards they would gain are instead gained by you.  Since Events are not cards you gain, Possession says nothing about them, and they would effect the current player (your opponent) without any rule modifications (other than you making the decisions, e.g. where the tokens go).

This is similar to how VP tokens go to the Possessed player, because nothing in the Possession rules say otherwise. 

GendoIkari

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #289 on: April 05, 2015, 11:05:39 am »
0

It just occurred to me that with events like these on the board, Possession really lets you mess with your left opponent in ways that are even meaner than using up their coin tokens.

For example you could move their Lost Arts action token from Smithy to Chancellor (after having just brazenly taken advantage of all those supercharged smithies yourself)

If you possess them super early, you could cause their Estates to inherit Ruined Village-ness and well that's not nice.

Of course you always want to do a Borrow on your last Possession and make their next turn as if you just minioned them after the Possession

Additionally, you will have called in any Reserve cards they were waiting to play...

Possession already isn't exactly a favored card of many people, and man I can just see that dislike growing with this expansion in play.

Something to be aware of.  I guess going forward, when Possession shows up in the kingdom along with Adventuresy-stuff... take a deep breath folks. You know it's probably going to be one of those games, so be a sport and ehm try to give as good as you get.

Does sound pretty gruesome. Of course, we don't know yet for sure the rules about how Events/Tokens interact with Possession. Maybe Events purchased accrue to the possessor, like Cards? Maybe the possessor can move his own tokens but not the possessed's, or vice versa, or both...?

No. Gained cards only go the the possessor because possession says so on the card. It wouldn't make any sense at all for a rule to be introduced into the rule book of Adventures that changes the wording of another card. Possession would have to be reprinted with new wording which won't happen.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #290 on: April 05, 2015, 11:06:24 am »
0

Don't hate me for this, but what about SCOUT + Inherited-Tourneys.  Scout draws out the Estataments AND the Provinces.

I seriously think that Scout + inheritance could be strong in a lot of situations. Maybe especially with tournament.
And successful Tourneys can give you Followers, which give you another Estatament.

Mind=blown.
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enfynet

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #291 on: April 05, 2015, 11:16:48 am »
0

Assume a kingdom of Crossroads, Great Hall, Scout, Baron, Tournament, Inheritance, and a bunch of other useless cards.  What would be the strongest 4/3 opening?
Baron/Silver? Get to 7 and Inherit Tournament? Pick up a couple Scouts/Crossroads for drawing, Province, Followers?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #292 on: April 05, 2015, 11:17:29 am »
0

Assume a kingdom of Crossroads, Great Hall, Scout, Baron, Tournament, Inheritance, and a bunch of other useless cards.  What would be the strongest 4/3 opening?

Baron Silver probably, because I think it's the best chance at a first-shuffle $7.
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TheOthin

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #293 on: April 05, 2015, 12:18:00 pm »
0

Tournament even gives you Duchies when you're done with Prizes! It's perfect!
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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #294 on: April 05, 2015, 12:44:34 pm »
0

Assume a kingdom of Crossroads, Great Hall, Scout, Baron, Tournament, Inheritance, and a bunch of other useless cards.  What would be the strongest 4/3 opening?

You forgot to add Silk Road!
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shmeur

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #295 on: April 05, 2015, 12:46:39 pm »
0

Assume a kingdom of Crossroads, Great Hall, Scout, Baron, Tournament, Inheritance, and a bunch of other useless cards.  What would be the strongest 4/3 opening?

You forgot to add Silk Road!
And Trade Route and Harem too.
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enfynet

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #296 on: April 05, 2015, 01:27:39 pm »
0

Assume a kingdom of Crossroads, Great Hall, Scout, Baron, Tournament, Inheritance, and a bunch of other useless cards.  What would be the strongest 4/3 opening?

You forgot to add Silk Road!
And Trade Route and Harem too.
So we need two more?

Hmmm... doesn't Adventures come with two VP kingdom cards?
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Psyduck

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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #297 on: April 05, 2015, 02:07:09 pm »
0

The token only affects drawing, with the additional caveat that Envoy is misworded and does not draw those cards.
How about Library?  Is it serious about the word "draw"?  It's a weird kind of drawing that doesn't happen anywhere else, so I always thought of it as more like: "look at a card, maybe put it into your hand, maybe do something else," since that's how everything else does stuff like that.  Like, maybe Library it was released too early to have gotten that wording or something.

But now I'm guessing that, since it does say "draw" and you didn't mention it just now, it's probably really and truly drawing, and it's just weird.


Luckily, I don't think there's any confusion there. The token is not an Action card, so it just gets "drawn", a.k.a. removed, and then you go on with the rest of Library.
Well, if Library is really drawing, then it works like all the other draw-up-to-X cards and effectively counters the token. If it's not (for whatever reason), then it leaves the token alone.

As I haven't read any confirmation on this: Do draw-to-x cards draw past the token? I.e. will my hand contain 7 cards if I play Library while there is a -draw token on my deck (assuming this is a possible play, of course)? Or will the token count against the card limit number, so I end up with 6 cards?


Any ideas about the best card to play Lost Arts on? My current vote goes to Envoy.

I'm curious to see Steward perform. Also, Conspirator might be nice.
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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #298 on: April 05, 2015, 02:10:37 pm »
+3

As I haven't read any confirmation on this: Do draw-to-x cards draw past the token? I.e. will my hand contain 7 cards if I play Library while there is a -draw token on my deck (assuming this is a possible play, of course)? Or will the token count against the card limit number, so I end up with 6 cards?
Yes, if you play Library (and don't already have 7+ cards in hand), you go to draw a card, remove the token instead, then keep drawing until you get to 7 cards.
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Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance
« Reply #299 on: April 05, 2015, 02:16:24 pm »
0

Using Lost Arts on Navigator should be pretty cute. Way better than having the +1 Action token on Scout. I think Navigator suffers more than most Action cards from being terminal, as it makes Navigator a lot harder to use as part of a synergy.
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