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Author Topic: Preview: Haunted Woods  (Read 64605 times)

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Witherweaver

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Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2015, 09:34:58 am »
+5

Moat must be revealed (or Lighthouse be in play) when Haunted Woods is played to block the attack effect.

Tracking issue in multiplayer games? I believe it's unprecedented in Dominion for the rules to require you to remember something that happened more than one turn ago.

That's why there is a new Duration Reaction Mat with Lighthouse and Moat tokens.  If revealed a Moat or had a Lighthouse in play against a Duration Attack, place a token on your mat to remind you.
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Watno

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Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2015, 09:36:59 am »
+4

It's a terminal, but the draw isn't terminal. You can't draw anything dead with it, which is kinda huge.
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Asper

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Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2015, 09:43:24 am »
+2

Hmm... I kind of expected a card with that name to be a VP card... Not sure what i think of this besides that.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2015, 09:48:08 am »
0

Is it almost good without the attack part?  I mean if it were $4 it'd be like a Smithy for next turn.  It misses shuffles, but doesn't draw dead. 
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Mr Anderson

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Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2015, 09:49:40 am »
+1

Wow, you guys have been april fooled big time.  That isn't the real Haunted Woods Art.  Nice fake, though, but I can tell it's a shop due to some pixels here and there.  This one's the real deal:



This is definitely going to be the #1 in your art rankings.

This card looks pretty strong to me. It seems that this card would be very hard to ignore because you will most likely need the draw after you were hit with this attack. Vault, Secret Chamber and Storeroom as well as sifters are great counters, though.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 09:50:58 am by Mr Anderson »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2015, 10:04:40 am »
0

Did this always trigger on buy? With Swamp Hag I remember well that there was the option to not buy, and thus not get hit with the attack, but I didn't remember that option happening here. It's good though, it means that if you got a terrible hand, like almost all green, then you don't get completely screwed.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2015, 10:16:32 am »
0

Did this always trigger on buy? With Swamp Hag I remember well that there was the option to not buy, and thus not get hit with the attack, but I didn't remember that option happening here. It's good though, it means that if you got a terrible hand, like almost all green, then you don't get completely screwed.

It was always on-Buy. In fact I don't think Haunted Woods changed at all from its initial form. Ditto Transmogrify.
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markusin

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Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2015, 10:18:50 am »
0

Okay, so now when I topdeck a bought card with Watchtower, I can now topdeck the Watchtower too? And I can also play Watchtower and topdeck any dead draws? You can't stop Watchtower!

So, the non-attack portion looks a tad bit weaker than Wharf. No +buy or cards on the turn it is played. But using this card early can backfire as it can help your opponents build too by having them topdeck unused actions.

But late game, the attack is brutal if your opponent needed to gradually gain VP cards. It even hits massive draw decks faster.

Some good counters are Vault-like cards that discard cards a lot. Minion engines too actually. With Minion, you rarely end the turn with more than 2 junk cards in hand.
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brokoli

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Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2015, 10:23:13 am »
0

This looks very, very strong. From all the previews, the strongest one I think.
The best counters are obviously the discarders/sifters like Vault, Horse traders, Secret Chamber, Tactician. But without any of them, this could really block an engine. I guess having "dead" actions can unblock situations of green hands. You don't want to play that crossroad so you can play it next turn with your green hand.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2015, 10:24:11 am »
+5


So, the non-attack portion looks a tad bit weaker than Wharf. No +buy or cards on the turn it is played.

Well it better be weaker. If it weren't, it would be a card as strong as Wharf, except with an added attack, for the same cost.
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Hockey Mask

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Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2015, 10:29:33 am »
0

Does this mean your opponent is limited to one buy unless that player happens to lay both treasure at the same time?  Two platinums would allow you to buy a $6 and a $4 as long as you buy the $6 first?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2015, 10:30:44 am »
+10

Does this mean your opponent is limited to one buy unless that player happens to lay both treasure at the same time?  Two platinums would allow you to buy a $6 and a $4 as long as you buy the $6 first?

No, you always play all your treasure cards before buying anything. You aren't allowed to ever play more treasure after you buy something in your buy phase. You don't play each treasure you need to pay for a card as you buy that card. In the buy phase, you first play all treasures you want to play, one at a time, and then you buy all the cards you want to buy.
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Watno

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Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2015, 10:31:05 am »
+2

You play as many treasures as you want and the start buying cards.

Unless you play Black Market, which doesn't seem like a great idea.
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SCSN

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Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2015, 10:31:12 am »
+8


So, the non-attack portion looks a tad bit weaker than Wharf. No +buy or cards on the turn it is played.

Well it better be weaker. If it weren't, it would be a card as strong as Wharf, except with an added attack, for the same cost.

Which only goes to show that Wharf is much too weak. I've always thought it should have "each other player reveals his hand and either trashes or keeps it, your choice" added to it.
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Hockey Mask

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Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« Reply #39 on: April 01, 2015, 10:32:31 am »
0

Does this mean your opponent is limited to one buy unless that player happens to lay both treasure at the same time?  Two platinums would allow you to buy a $6 and a $4 as long as you buy the $6 first?

No, you always play all your treasure cards before buying anything. You aren't allowed to ever play more treasure after you buy something in your buy phase. You don't play each treasure you need to pay for a card as you buy that card. In the buy phase, you first play all treasures you want to play, one at a time, and then you buy all the cards you want to buy.
Of course.  Thank you.
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Donald X.

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Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2015, 10:34:29 am »
+2

It was always on-Buy. In fact I don't think Haunted Woods changed at all from its initial form. Ditto Transmogrify.
Haunted Woods never changed, but there was at least one other version of Transmogrify right at the beginning (without checking I think it was a full-on Remodel for $6).
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LastFootnote

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Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2015, 10:35:26 am »
0

It was always on-Buy. In fact I don't think Haunted Woods changed at all from its initial form. Ditto Transmogrify.
Haunted Woods never changed, but there was at least one other version of Transmogrify right at the beginning (without checking I think it was a full-on Remodel for $6).

I am pretty certain we never saw that version.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« Reply #42 on: April 01, 2015, 10:37:20 am »
0

Was there ever any thought of trying to include the option of topdecking your own hand when you buy?  In some cases this can be used tactically.  But you wouldn't always want to do it.  And giving you the option while forcing other players to do it would probably be too clunky.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2015, 10:51:32 am »
+3

First thing I want to look at, how good is the card without the attack bit? Terminal nothing now, Hunting Grounds next turn. Or, I think a useful thing for duration cards, playing one every turn is like playing.... a smithy every turn. But you need to get two. And this misses the shuffle more than smithy. And it costs 5. In return, you can maybe set up something where you're getting some monstrously good hands and some very mediocre ones - but I find that, at least with most of the other duration cards, I much prefer having them split than gobbed up together. (Tactician is the obvious exception)

Soooooooooooo... the attack better be very strong for this card to be good. I mean, this is some amount of draw, it's probably not the worst thing ever, but I doubt it would be strong without the attack being at least fairly good. How good is the attack?

If an engine has some kind of discard (even warehouse will often be good enough) or trashing to get rid of its green cards, this doesn't hurt. Big Money decks are somewhat inconvenienced, but late in the game, the hands where you do have lots of money, you won't have to keep many cards in hand, so it ends up being not too dissimilar from Bureaucrat. The hands where you have lots of green cards in hand, you probably don't have that much money, you just forego your buy. Now this is a real cost, don't get me wrong - not getting a gold can really hurt, not getting silver hurts a reasonable amount early on and a tiny even in the late game - but it's not the hugest thing ever; pretty mild as attacks go.

On top of all this, the attack can actually just aid the player being attacked fairly reasonably. If I am overdrawing, I can seed my next hand by not playing some actions. If I have one of those super hands in a Big Money deck, where I am wasting a bunch of cash because it all clumped up, now I get to spread it out.

Overall, I expect the card to be rather weak. Not unplayable, by any stretch, just rarely the thing you actually want. I guess when it is good, you will probably know, and it can be fairly decent there.

Donald X.

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Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2015, 10:54:37 am »
+1

It was always on-Buy. In fact I don't think Haunted Woods changed at all from its initial form. Ditto Transmogrify.
Haunted Woods never changed, but there was at least one other version of Transmogrify right at the beginning (without checking I think it was a full-on Remodel for $6).

I am pretty certain we never saw that version.
I have a record of all those doings you know. Okay you heard about it, but when I officially added the card for external playtesters it was already the $4 +$1 version.
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Donald X.

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Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« Reply #45 on: April 01, 2015, 10:56:02 am »
+2

Was there ever any thought of trying to include the option of topdecking your own hand when you buy?  In some cases this can be used tactically.  But you wouldn't always want to do it.  And giving you the option while forcing other players to do it would probably be too clunky.
No there was no thought of that stuff. The cards all try to be simple, they only get messy when they have to.
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werothegreat

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Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2015, 10:56:15 am »
+7

Haunted Woods will definitely be stronger when there are no trashers, and even stronger with junkers out.  Maybe now you'll *want* to play your Ruined Villages!
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LastFootnote

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Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« Reply #47 on: April 01, 2015, 10:56:32 am »
0

It was always on-Buy. In fact I don't think Haunted Woods changed at all from its initial form. Ditto Transmogrify.
Haunted Woods never changed, but there was at least one other version of Transmogrify right at the beginning (without checking I think it was a full-on Remodel for $6).

I am pretty certain we never saw that version.
I have a record of all those doings you know. Okay you heard about it, but when I officially added the card for external playtesters it was already the $4 +$1 version.

Well, you know what they say about my memory...
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DG

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Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2015, 11:22:41 am »
0

This should be an interesting card as it should change how you play. Something to consider is that if you draw a massive hand to buy a province then you could be putting seven or eight unplayable cards back on top of your deck. In multiplayer you could also see your starting estates accumulate in hand until you are forced to have a dead turn. Combinations of attacks with haunted woods may come up with strange results as well, not least with fortune teller.
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markusin

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Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2015, 11:28:35 am »
+1

Huh, playing Haunted Woods has anti-synergy with discard attacks.

Gotta say, nice art, nice flavour (fits with Ghost Ship).
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