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Author Topic: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm  (Read 120155 times)

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Witherweaver

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #75 on: March 31, 2015, 10:57:41 am »
+1

So, where does this put us on the whole mat thing.  What is the most mattastic game we can have?

Pirate Ship, Island, Trade Route, Tavern, Native Village am I forgetting something?

There is a "Trash" Card that you could call a Mat.

Only if you were some kind of heathen.  If it's not square it's not a mat.

Rectangles can be Mats, too.  Ever set a dinner table?
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markusin

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #76 on: March 31, 2015, 10:58:11 am »
0

When I play a Reserve Card and put it on my Tavern mat, I guess they will not count as "in play" afterwards (relevant for peddler buys, or resolving horn of plenty)?

Will played Action Reserve Cards count as Played Actions for Conspirator? I think, they should...
My understanding is that playing a Reserve card from hand (you know, like you normally play an Action card at the cost of an Action) counts for Conspirator activation, but calling a card from the Tavern mat does not. Calling moves a card from the mat into play directly without actually playing it. Otherwise, Coin of the Realm could be played endlessly for infinite coins every time an Action Card is resolved.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 11:00:52 am by markusin »
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Donald X.

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #77 on: March 31, 2015, 10:59:15 am »
+10

Coin of the realm is probably my favorite card in adventures, and that's saying a lot because I really like a lot of the cards. DXV is basically a genius for coming up with this card the way it is, it's just so beautiful the way you build your deck very differently to get the most out of it.
LF is the one who suggested making it a treasure. I had it as an action, but it was tricky finding a good spot relative to other villages.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #78 on: March 31, 2015, 11:04:09 am »
+1

Counterfeit doesn't trash Coin of the Realm. That's probably still not agood idea to do^^

This is neat; sometimes you may want to.  I mean, sometimes you play Counterfeit without trashing for the +Buy, and in this case you might as well play it on Coin of the Realm for an extra +1.  Or if they're just the only two Treasures in  your hand.
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AJD

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #79 on: March 31, 2015, 11:08:55 am »
+3

And, is there an official definition for "resolving an Action"? I assume it implies playing an Action, but since "Action" also means "Action card", I can see arguments being made that resolving the reaction of a Horse Traders - which is an Action (card) - could be called resolving an Action.
Horse Traders is an Action that also happens to be a Reaction, those things aren't actually related at all, and functioning as a Reaction is not playing an Action.  Note that Fool's Gold and Tunnel are both Reactions, but not Actions, and no one has ever been confused about whether discarding Tunnel to an Oasis would be enough to activate their Conspirator or not.

Your explanation here is obviously correct, but I think you're not really appreciating why Rubby thought this was worth asking?

Coin of the Realm doesn't say "playing an Action"; it says "resolving an Action". Horse Traders is an Action card, in addition to whatever other types it may have. In the absence of a more formal definition of "resolve" (which perhaps the Adventures rulebook will provide), it's reasonable to describe setting aside Horse Traders in response to an attack as "resolving" Horse Traders—e.g., you might say to someone "you can reveal both Horse Traders and Secret Chamber, but you have to finish resolving one before you can reveal the other." So if Horse Traders is an Action card, and you're "resolving" Horse Traders when you set it aside, an overly-literal reading could construe that as "resolving an Action card". Which suggests the interpretation that "resolving an Action" doesn't exactly mean "resolving an Action card".
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AJD

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #80 on: March 31, 2015, 11:10:35 am »
+1

Coin of the realm is probably my favorite card in adventures, and that's saying a lot because I really like a lot of the cards. DXV is basically a genius for coming up with this card the way it is, it's just so beautiful the way you build your deck very differently to get the most out of it.
LF is the one who suggested making it a treasure. I had it as an action, but it was tricky finding a good spot relative to other villages.

Congrats to LF, then. Being a Treasure is a great niche for this; it reminds me of Merchant Guild, in that the benefit is just a bit too late to use it this turn.
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crlundy

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #81 on: March 31, 2015, 11:12:15 am »
0

I'd been wondering what the new card color would be! Man, the gradient on that Treasure-Reserve is subtle. I'm also surprised it's called a Tavern Mat and not a Reserve Mat. I feel like Dominion usually chooses straightforwardness over flavorfulness. (It's a VP mat not a Landowner's Mat or something.) I wonder what the Tavern Mat art will look like. It also seems counterintuitive that calling cards doesn't put them in play, but I'm guessing this was to balance Peddler, Horn of Plenty, etc.

The cards seem pretty intriguing and I'm guessing that are some even cooler ones to come.
I'm excited about all of them, but Guide least so, probably because I'm expecting to be distressed trying to guess if my next 5 cards are better than what I have now. No question with discard attacks, though.
Duplicate is something I've wanted -- and it actually works on Victory cards! Seems like an all around sweet deal; it's like Talisman whenever you want it, with all its restrictions relaxed.
Without the Teaser, I would never have expected Coin of the Realm; very inventive and I like it. It also seems powerful that you get to choose whether you want to use it after your terminal draw. I think I'll be a fan.
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werothegreat

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #82 on: March 31, 2015, 11:13:17 am »
+7

Calling cards does put them in play.  It just doesn't play them.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #83 on: March 31, 2015, 11:13:22 am »
0

Coin of the realm is probably my favorite card in adventures, and that's saying a lot because I really like a lot of the cards. DXV is basically a genius for coming up with this card the way it is, it's just so beautiful the way you build your deck very differently to get the most out of it.
LF is the one who suggested making it a treasure. I had it as an action, but it was tricky finding a good spot relative to other villages.

Congrats to LF, then. Being a Treasure is a great niche for this; it reminds me of Merchant Guild, in that the benefit is just a bit too late to use it this turn.

Of course this combos with Storyteller though, so you can get the benefit on the same turn.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #84 on: March 31, 2015, 11:15:25 am »
+1

Ela, the nice thing about CotR is that you aren't punished that much by over buying them, and it turns out that the split matters most of the time.

I don't think I ever saw the CotR split matter very much. And I think it's quite bad to overbuy them, both from an opportunity cost view and because it's still a dead card for draw. Seemed much better as a supplemental Village where you get just a few copies. Obvious exception is: CotR is the only Village AND you need a lot of +actions.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 11:20:21 am by Mic Qsenoch »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #85 on: March 31, 2015, 11:15:39 am »
+4

Being a Treasure is a great niche for this; it reminds me of Merchant Guild, in that the benefit is just a bit too late to use it this turn.

That's actually for tracking reasons. In real-life games, if you have a bunch of "Actions of the Realm" (some already on your mat) and play some and call some during the same turn, it's problematic to remember how many made money for you. An Action version could have just not made coins, but I'm glad that the Treasure version worked out. It's cool to have a Treasure-Reserve card and it's cool to have a Treasure that's a village (especially one that can't be drawn dead).
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 11:17:35 am by LastFootnote »
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Donald X.

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #86 on: March 31, 2015, 11:15:59 am »
+5

I'd been wondering what the new card color would be! Man, the gradient on that Treasure-Reserve is subtle. I'm also surprised it's called a Tavern Mat and not a Reserve Mat. I feel like Dominion usually chooses straightforwardness over flavorfulness. (It's a VP mat not a Landowner's Mat or something.) I wonder what the Tavern Mat art will look like. It also seems counterintuitive that calling cards doesn't put them in play, but I'm guessing this was to balance Peddler, Horn of Plenty, etc.
Eric J. Carter did the mat. It shows some of the characters from the Reserve cards in a tavern. Beyond that you will have to wait until the set is out to see it.

Calling cards does put them into play, it just isn't "playing" them. It doesn't do the top half.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #87 on: March 31, 2015, 11:17:04 am »
+1

I'd been wondering what the new card color would be! Man, the gradient on that Treasure-Reserve is subtle. I'm also surprised it's called a Tavern Mat and not a Reserve Mat. I feel like Dominion usually chooses straightforwardness over flavorfulness. (It's a VP mat not a Landowner's Mat or something.) I wonder what the Tavern Mat art will look like. It also seems counterintuitive that calling cards doesn't put them in play, but I'm guessing this was to balance Peddler, Horn of Plenty, etc.


Wero pointed out that it DOES put them into play. But I think it's kind of funny that you find the opposite to be counter-intuitive... my impression when playing with these was that it was confusing that they were put into play, given that they weren't being played. I would have thought that they should just go to your discard. I'm guessing that they don't because Donald didn't want the possibility of re-playing the card the same turn that you called it.
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chris3145

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #88 on: March 31, 2015, 11:19:00 am »
+8

Are all the reserve cards going to have that incorrect comma? That's annoying.
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Donald X.

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #89 on: March 31, 2015, 11:21:26 am »
+1

I would have thought that they should just go to your discard. I'm guessing that they don't because Donald didn't want the possibility of re-playing the card the same turn that you called it.
Yeah that had problems.
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Sidsel

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #90 on: March 31, 2015, 11:22:19 am »
0

"Start of your turn"
How does Guide interact with Durations and Prince?
Do I resolve Guide before or after Tactician draw for example? (After would be a poor choice - swapping 10 for 5, but cleaning up the first five and then drawing another five for Tactician would be nice.)
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Witherweaver

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #91 on: March 31, 2015, 11:22:24 am »
+5

Are all the reserve cards going to, have that incorrect comma? That's annoying.

Fixed that for you.
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werothegreat

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #92 on: March 31, 2015, 11:22:34 am »
+5

"Start of your turn"
How does Guide interact with Durations and Prince?
Do I resolve Guide before or after Tactician draw for example? (After would be a poor choice - swapping 10 for 5, but cleaning up the first five and then drawing another five for Tactician would be nice.)

You choose!
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GendoIkari

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #93 on: March 31, 2015, 11:23:19 am »
+4

"Start of your turn"
How does Guide interact with Durations and Prince?
Do I resolve Guide before or after Tactician draw for example? (After would be a poor choice - swapping 10 for 5, but cleaning up the first five and then drawing another five for Tactician would be nice.)

You would choose the order, just like all other "start of your turn" events.
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Donald X.

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #94 on: March 31, 2015, 11:24:06 am »
+2

Are all the reserve cards going to have that incorrect comma? That's annoying.
It turns out I value clear communication above language prescriptivism. In fact I don't value language prescriptivism at all.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #95 on: March 31, 2015, 11:29:23 am »
0

Are all the reserve cards going to have that incorrect comma? That's annoying.
It turns out I value clear communication above language prescriptivism. In fact I don't value language prescriptivism at all.

Just out of curiosity, why not use "If you do, ...".  To save space?
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Rubby

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #96 on: March 31, 2015, 11:29:32 am »
0

And, is there an official definition for "resolving an Action"? I assume it implies playing an Action, but since "Action" also means "Action card", I can see arguments being made that resolving the reaction of a Horse Traders - which is an Action (card) - could be called resolving an Action.

Horse Traders is an Action that also happens to be a Reaction, those things aren't actually related at all, and functioning as a Reaction is not playing an Action.  Note that Fool's Gold and Tunnel are both Reactions, but not Actions, and no one has ever been confused about whether discarding Tunnel to an Oasis would be enough to activate their Conspirator or not.

I'm aware of all this; the point still holds that in the absence of an official ruling/definition, the words "resolving an Action" could be parsed to mean something other than playing an Action. "Horse Traders is an Action; I resolved (the Reaction function of) a Horse Traders; ergo I resolved an Action!"

Edit: Yeah, what AJD said:P
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 04:15:51 pm by Rubby »
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werothegreat

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #97 on: March 31, 2015, 11:30:56 am »
+1

Are all the reserve cards going to have that incorrect comma? That's annoying.
It turns out I value clear communication above language prescriptivism. In fact I don't value language prescriptivism at all.

Just out of curiosity, why not use "If you do, ...".  To save space?

", for " is less space than ".  If you do, "
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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #98 on: March 31, 2015, 11:31:15 am »
+8

Are all the reserve cards going to have that incorrect comma? That's annoying.
It turns out I value clear communication above language prescriptivism. In fact I don't value language prescriptivism at all.

I feel the comma makes these cards 0% clearer.

EDIT: I should also say that it doesn't annoy me like it used to. You get used to it quickly and in the big scheme of things it doesn't matter.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 11:37:17 am by LastFootnote »
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Donald X.

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #99 on: March 31, 2015, 11:33:25 am »
+1

Just out of curiosity, why not use "If you do, ...".  To save space?
To save space, and because I got it into my head that maybe "to" would work fine for people. "If you do" seems more compelling for cases where you might fail to do the thing.
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