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Author Topic: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm  (Read 120165 times)

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jsh357

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #175 on: March 31, 2015, 02:50:09 pm »
+2

Phew, glad those are what i expected. I'm okay with events. The Treasure-Village had me worried for a while.

Not too complex for you?  ;)

I don't mind complexity. I mind when complexity weights heavier than the effect it has. That's not the case with Events, as the same complexity (calling, putting in play without getting the on-play bonus) gets distributed between a bunch of effects. I still stand with specific points i critizised at a certain card before, but that said, maybe i'll grow more fond of it the more of the set gets revealed. It's not like i want every Dominion card to be Village or Smithy.

These are not events.  They are reserve cards.  We'll be getting to events soon.
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TheOthin

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #176 on: March 31, 2015, 04:01:47 pm »
0

Events are still a mystery, as are the new tokens (although they may be linked) and the new Durations.
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mborda

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #177 on: March 31, 2015, 04:32:32 pm »
0


Calling is not playing; when you play the card, you're playing it, and when you call it, you're calling it. Calling it does put it "into play" though, which matters for Peddler etc.


So, another use for Coin of the Realm could be a combo with Bank, awaiting for the precise moment where you need $1 more.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #178 on: March 31, 2015, 04:34:06 pm »
+6

I am 2 for 2 on predictions!

I figure that Reserve cards will be pretty simple.  I figure they'll be like long-lasting Durations that trigger when you want them to trigger.  That is, when you play a Reserve card, it goes directly to your Reserve mat.  You can play a card from your Reserve mat for free at any time during your turn (other than in the middle of resolving another action, of course).  Maybe some of them will have an effect when you first play them, and maybe some will have a while-in-reserve effect that could be good or bad.

I think my guess was pretty spot-on.  When you play a Reserve card, it goes to the mat.  Some of them have an effect when you first play them (Guide, CotR) while others do not, other than putting them on the mat (Duplicate).  It remains to be seen whether any of them will have a while-in-tavern effect.

It seems to me that Reserve cards will be less about raw power and more about reliability and flexibility.  I think Guide and CotR will be best for keeping an engine running smoothly.  Duplicate is a decent card (usually better than Smugglers, I think, since it gives you greater control over what you gain with it) and making it a Reserve means it doesn't just whiff if you draw it at a bad time.  Transmogrify (the other preview) also lends you the flexibility to do what you want when you want it.

CotR seems like a better implementation of Walled Village, in a way.  Mass Duplicate sounds like it would be extremely fun, especially with cost reduction.

I kind of wish that all the Reserve cards were people, since they go to the tavern to hang out.  CotR kind of works, but Duplicate could have been Sculptor or something!  I guess it works anyway.

I don't like the comma splices either, but oh well.  I agree with LF that it doesn't seem to reduce ambiguity, but Donald's explanation makes sense.  I can't help but think that there could be a better solution.  I think you could just use a colon instead (and I see now that Witherweaver just suggested that same thing), e.g. "At the start of your turn, you may call this: discard your hand and draw 5 cards."  Just in case, you could clarify in the rule book that you don't get any of the stuff after the colon unless you call the card.
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Asper

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #179 on: March 31, 2015, 04:36:10 pm »
+3

So... Wait. When i play Reserves, they don't end up in play, but when i don't, they do?

So, i get more for Bank when i pull Coin of the Realm from the Tavern, but not when i actually played the Treasure?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #180 on: March 31, 2015, 04:37:22 pm »
0

So... Wait. When i play Reserves, they don't end up in play, but when i don't, they do?

So, i get more for Bank when i pull Coin of the Realm from the Tavern, but not when i actually played the Treasure?

Bingo.
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AJD

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #181 on: March 31, 2015, 04:38:21 pm »
+3

I don't like the comma splices either, but oh well.

(It's not a comma splice)
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eHalcyon

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #182 on: March 31, 2015, 04:43:57 pm »
0

I don't like the comma splices either, but oh well.

(It's not a comma splice)

Uh, OK, I guess not.  I still find it really, really weird to have the independent clause nested between two dependent clauses.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #183 on: March 31, 2015, 04:51:37 pm »
+1

Thoughts, in reverse:

Coin of the Realm: I can hardly imagine the game where winning the split is important. The card is real bad to have in your deck (I bought a copper) for the benefit of being on-call-village-but-I-have-to-put-this-back-in-my-deck. Hm. Building an engine where this is the only village seems like it is asking for trouble (sure, there's the rare case where everything else is perfect). I expect this is mostly going to be something you pick up one or maaybe two of on a spare buy/gain, so that you get a touch of extra reliability. I will laugh heartily when someone (probably me) is missing the $1 from this and it costs them.


Duplicate: Gut reaction was that this seemed pretty weak. But thought a little, and man, it just has to be pretty strong. Not a world-beater or anything, as it's still situational. But a very nice role-player. I mean, once I started thinking about it as a Workshop, it seemed a lot better. Just, you always have the option of doubling that buy of yours from the turn. Plus random upside of being able to Island it out of your deck. The bigger thing, of course, is that you can get 5s and 6s. That is just huge. I am going to guess that turn 3-4 is a very normal time to pick this up. You probably want to think about not opening this if there aren't good 3s you want - certainly not if there aren't good 3s or 4s. tracking shuffles is probably going to be important here, and you will want this earlier on in the shuffle, so you can now whether to take it back now, or risk getting something better next turn. Indeed, all of these Reserve cards seem pretty high skill, as you have significant decisions on if/when to buy as well as big, non-trivial play decisions.

Finally, we get to Guide. Oh Guide. The obvious use, to my mind, is that you can grab this with a spare gain to give your engine lots of extra reliability. A couple of these means you almost never dud out, especially given that you can get them back on the mat fairly easily. Hooray. And it counters discard attacks - especially torturer - there's a plus. Combos with Outpost, that is super nice. My thoughts (and somewhat questions) are about other decks though. It doesn't even seem that bad in Big Money, at all. You can cycle through to your good hands. And if there are just cards you want to play a lot, you can cycle through to them. Stash, hey, that's a thing. More than that though, cards like Rebuild or Junkers - flipping through decks there seems real nice, and 3 seems a real low price. I suspect this is the strongest card we've seen so far here?

LastFootnote

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #184 on: March 31, 2015, 04:55:18 pm »
+3

Coin of the Realm: I can hardly imagine the game where winning the split is important. The card is real bad to have in your deck (I bought a copper) for the benefit of being on-call-village-but-I-have-to-put-this-back-in-my-deck. Hm. Building an engine where this is the only village seems like it is asking for trouble (sure, there's the rare case where everything else is perfect). I expect this is mostly going to be something you pick up one or maaybe two of on a spare buy/gain, so that you get a touch of extra reliability. I will laugh heartily when someone (probably me) is missing the $1 from this and it costs them.

Small correction: Coin of the Realm is an on-call-DOUBLE-village-but-I-have-to-put-this-back-in-my-deck
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AJD

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #185 on: March 31, 2015, 04:56:52 pm »
+38

"Oh man, I can't wait to play my first game of Adventures with Cornucopia!"

"Let's see, what's in my hand this turn… Duplicate, Transmogrify, Transmogrify, Menagerie, Fortune Teller. Okay, good thing Transmogrify is non-terminal! I'll play one of those, and then my Menagerie will hit!"

"Hey… why did my Menagerie only draw one card?"



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liopoil

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #186 on: March 31, 2015, 04:59:53 pm »
+2

If you have two guides on the mat, can you use one, and then another if you don't like the new hand either?

I totally think that engines with coin of the realm as the only village can work. Just get, say, 4 of them, and switch two out every turn. That's 5 actions a turn. That's the same as fishing village, except with two fewer coins, so okay, not quite as stellar as I thought. But fishing village is crazy good, so there's that. There's the on-call part too, which means that you can maybe get one and just keep it on your mat until you finally need it in a normal engine.

EDIT: Woah, totally thought coin of the realm costed 3. It's barely worse than FV and costs one less! This card is good.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 05:01:24 pm by liopoil »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #187 on: March 31, 2015, 05:00:33 pm »
0

If you have two guides on the mat, can you use one, and then another if you don't like the new hand either?

Absolutely.
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liopoil

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #188 on: March 31, 2015, 05:03:24 pm »
+1

Duplicate sounds really bad. It does nothing when you play it, and still costs an action!

Tactician does worse than nothing when you play it and costs an action, so this in itself isn't dispositive.
So... Duplicate gives you a double turn? I guess that is sort of the case. But I hope to be doing better than two 6-costs on my tactician turns eventually. But yes, there is more to it of course. I still think it won't be worth the trouble most of the time though.
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TheOthin

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #189 on: March 31, 2015, 05:04:27 pm »
+1

Duplicate sounds really bad. It does nothing when you play it, and still costs an action!

Tactician does worse than nothing when you play it and costs an action, so this in itself isn't dispositive.
So... Duplicate gives you a double turn? I guess that is sort of the case. But I hope to be doing better than two 6-costs on my tactician turns eventually. But yes, there is more to it of course. I still think it won't be worth the trouble most of the time though.

Duplicate is also cheaper to pick up and less taxing to play than Tactician; it's no surprise that its effect is weaker.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #190 on: March 31, 2015, 05:04:51 pm »
0

Yeah, yeah, the double village thing makes CotR a lot better and more interesting. I still don't think it will be great, but solid at the right time, sure. That is a lot of actions.

werothegreat

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #191 on: March 31, 2015, 05:09:56 pm »
+2

Yeah, yeah, the double village thing makes CotR a lot better and more interesting. I still don't think it will be great, but solid at the right time, sure. That is a lot of actions.

It also lets you play terminal draw blindly. If my Smithy draws actions, I call CotR; if it didn't, I save CotR for another time.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #192 on: March 31, 2015, 05:57:21 pm »
0

Yeah, yeah, the double village thing makes CotR a lot better and more interesting. I still don't think it will be great, but solid at the right time, sure. That is a lot of actions.

It also lets you play terminal draw blindly. If my Smithy draws actions, I call CotR; if it didn't, I save CotR for another time.

Well yeah, that was the original use for it I had described.

Watno

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #193 on: March 31, 2015, 05:57:42 pm »
+4

Hey, we're much more productive than BGG. Their discussion about Transmogrify is only about the comma :P
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LastFootnote

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #194 on: March 31, 2015, 05:59:38 pm »
0

Hey, we're much more productive than BGG. Their discussion about Transmogrify is only about the comma :P

Yeah, I noticed that. Oh well!
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werothegreat

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #195 on: March 31, 2015, 06:03:55 pm »
+1

Cross-posting!

Bonnie Tyler is clearly a lezzy
I'm only giving you one +1.  :P
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 06:29:37 pm by werothegreat »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #196 on: March 31, 2015, 06:08:06 pm »
0

Cross-posting!
(snip)

I'm only giving you one +1.  :P

Ahhhh shoot, I cross-posted to the wrong thread.  I removed my post, would you mind snipping yours too?  :-[
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #197 on: March 31, 2015, 06:13:18 pm »
+3

Besides, guys, you're really missing the best reason to not be unhappy when I post predictions you're sure are super wrong: in the future, we can all laugh at how stupid I was.

werothegreat

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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #198 on: March 31, 2015, 06:13:25 pm »
0

Cross-posting!
(snip)

I'm only giving you one +1.  :P

Ahhhh shoot, I cross-posted to the wrong thread.  I removed my post, would you mind snipping yours too?  :-[

Nah, I got a +1.  :)

Besides, guys, you're really missing the best reason to not be unhappy when I post predictions you're sure are super wrong: in the future, we can all laugh at how stupid I was.

I do find it amusing that the card you think is the strongest so far is Guide.
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Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« Reply #199 on: March 31, 2015, 06:14:57 pm »
+1

Duplicate sounds really bad. It does nothing when you play it, and still costs an action!

Tactician does worse than nothing when you play it and costs an action, so this in itself isn't dispositive.
So... Duplicate gives you a double turn? I guess that is sort of the case. But I hope to be doing better than two 6-costs on my tactician turns eventually. But yes, there is more to it of course. I still think it won't be worth the trouble most of the time though.

You want Duplicate whenever there are 5- or 6-cost engine pieces you want a lot of. That happens pretty often!
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