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Voltaire

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #200 on: April 21, 2015, 07:00:49 pm »
+4

typing "o gains Mini" and seeing 6 hits tells me I indeed have 6 Minions!

Yuck yuck not Dominion yuck. At least not the Dominion I want to play. To each their own. But this variant should not be the default, should be an opt-in somehow or something.
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Gherald

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #201 on: April 21, 2015, 07:33:29 pm »
0

Iso also displayed the full log when the point counter was enabled. And people indeed use the log to search for deck compositions using the browser's text-search (ctrl-f). I learned the trick from Stef who credited Hyphenated, and I've since seen others use it too. It's really fast and not at all game-disrupting. Typing "o gains Mini" and seeing 6 hits tells me I indeed have 6 Minions!
I also play this way and have long since Iso times.

Those not wanting a full log should just play without a VP counter.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #202 on: April 21, 2015, 07:57:49 pm »
0

Iso also displayed the full log when the point counter was enabled. And people indeed use the log to search for deck compositions using the browser's text-search (ctrl-f). I learned the trick from Stef who credited Hyphenated, and I've since seen others use it too. It's really fast and not at all game-disrupting. Typing "o gains Mini" and seeing 6 hits tells me I indeed have 6 Minions!
I also play this way and have long since Iso times.

Those not wanting a full log should just play without a VP counter.

Well yeah, a VP counter is also a variant. I didn't know or didn't remember that Iso's VP counter was tied into a full-game log.
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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #203 on: April 22, 2015, 05:18:05 pm »
+6

Oh, one thing that I don't remember if I mentioned: Friend list.  This will probably go hand in hand with being on Steam, but for those who don't use Steam, it will be useful to be able to add people you enjoyed playing with, or IRL friends, so you can always just invite a friend to a game, rather than the two of you hunting for a free room while talking to each other over some 3rd party chat thing.
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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #204 on: April 22, 2015, 05:23:51 pm »
0

And people indeed use the log to search for deck compositions using the browser's text-search (ctrl-f). I learned the trick from Stef who credited Hyphenated, and I've since seen others use it too. It's really fast and not at all game-disrupting. Typing "o gains Mini" and seeing 6 hits tells me I indeed have 6 Minions!
Using the number of search results is a nice trick. Now I feel dumb for not realizing that Salvager includes a de facto deck tracker. (Not that it's entirely Salvager's doing, since the full log is there anyway. But the built-in log window is not searchable.)
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Titandrake

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #205 on: April 23, 2015, 12:13:08 am »
0

I've never used the log to do that, but I have used it to check when the other player last reshuffled. Without that, it's difficult to check what actions missed the shuffle, which is very important for endgame scenarios. This is especially true when people play their turn fairly quickly.
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Lord Humanton

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #206 on: April 23, 2015, 02:43:38 pm »
+10

As long as we're dreaming, I also have a wish that I think would mean a major overhaul of things that are supposed to stay the same in this new version, but that would lead to a much more streamlined experience especially when playing multiplayer,

Simply put: Allow stuff to be done beforehand when possible.

A simple example would be when player A plays Militia and players B and C have to discard. Let them discard simultaneously so C doesn't have to wait for B to discard. Of course things should really happen in the order they should happen. The interface would just in many cases to act beforehand in a way that would only be seen by themselves until it's time for it to actually happen.

If C doesn't want to discard until after they've seen if B discards Tunnels that's possible by just waiting, but B have to discard before getting to know what C discarded.

The attacker A on the other hand could go on with their turn without having to wait for anyone if they don't want to. Not until everyone has discarded this actually happens.
Of course it can be important to know how the other players react. In those cases it might be good to wait, but at other times you can just continue playing quickly.

It can be a bit tricky, but I don't think this would have to be very complicated. There would be a queue of things that have been decided but that haven't actually happened yet, where each player can have one event where they have to decide something. As soon as everyone has seen the first event on the queue it actually happens, etc.

A more complete example with A, B and C and it's A's turn:

1. A plays Village. No interaction, so nothing special.

2. A plays Margrave. Playing an attack is a possible interaction so now things are different. Let's say B has a Horse Traders and thus has to decide if setting it aside. There is a status text "B chooses a reaction" or something like that.

3. A executes the Margrave, getting 3 cards and 1 buy, but this happens only for A for the time being. Also C (who has no choice) draws a card, and then has to discard, but only in "C's reality".

4. Now all three players have something to do. A can play a new action, B still has to decide if setting the HT aside, and C has to discard cards. The status message is still about B (and the clock is on B) and A and C might want to wait to see what happens, but can also act.

Suppose A is first and plays a Masquerade. As before A immediately draws 2 cards in "Reality A". No one else notices anything about this.

5. Next suppose C discards down to 3 to the Margrave. Then C will se A draw cards and play Masquerade, since there are no new decisions for C to do before that. Similarly A will see C discarding cards immediately. Only B is stuck on where the game "actually" is. These are the events on the queue that haven't really happened yet:
  • A draws 3 cards and gets 1 buy (seen by A and C)
  • B should act out their part of the Margrave (has not happend at all)
  • C draws 1 card and discards some cards (seen by A and C)
  • A plays Masquerade (seen by A and C)
  • A draws 2 cards (seen by A and C)
  • A should pass a card (A's current decision)
  • B should pass a card (still unknown)
  • C should pass a card (C's current decision)

Suppose that B continues to be the slow player. As soon as A and C have passed cards A can continue; maybe trashes a card, plays a bunch of Treasures and buys a couple of cards. In A's and C's reality it is now B's turn while B is still stuck on that Horse Trader.

Finally B sets the Horse Traders aside; gets to see everything happening, drawing, discarding, and passing a card, and then quickly it is their turn and everyone is in synch again.

But there can be information leakage!

Yes, that's possible. C may chat "uh oh, I didn't expect a Masquerade" which will warn B before B discards. You could argue that you shouldn't get to see chats before you are in synch with the chatter, but I think a better solution is simply to wait for the others when you want to do something like this. The important thing is to avoid unnecessary waits when it really doesn't matter to you how what the others do.

It can be tricky!

Indeed. Suppose A's first buy in the example was a Province and B has a Fool's Gold. Then A should see whether B trashes it before buying the next card (maybe Noble Brigand!). Then we must have A start waiting after that first buy since there is no way to know what B will do or even if B will pass Fool's Gold to C. If the reaction that B is thinking about using for the Margrave is Secret Chamber instead there's even less knowing if Fool's Gold will be in any hand.

But fortunately most of the time it will not be that complicated, and it does not have to be complete at all. Just having some logic for doing like this can come a long way from unnecessary waits that you wouldn't do if playing afk. Also some of the complications will only happen when specific cards are in the game. When Fool's Gold is in the game some things have be done more by the letter. When Caravan Guard is in the game some other things have be done more carefully, etc.

I disagree: I think it would get very complicated. Suppose that instead of a Horse Traders, B had a Secret Chamber. While B is deciding his reaction to Margrave, A goes ahead and plays his next action, which is a Smugglers, gaining a Gold. Now B plays his Secret Chamber, triggering a shuffle and drawing random two cards into his hand, one of which happens to be a Tunnel, which he chooses not to top-deck. Now player B has to discard down due to the Margrave and he discards the Tunnel. However, after revealing it, he can't gain a Gold because the Gold pile is empty -- player A just took the last Gold with his Smugglers!

This can't be allowed to happen, because player B should have had the first chance to get that Gold. Somehow the game server would have to figure out that it was theoretically possible for the rules to be violated and disallow A's action. I'm sure it's possible to do this for all possible cases with a complicated enough set of logic; however, if this were implemented it be both confusing to the players. For example, player A can't play that Smugglers in this case, so he'd be scratching his head wondering why.

A much more manageable idea, which has been kicked around before, is just to allow players to start to respond to attacks (and Masquerade) out of order, even though the responses will be re-played in order. It certainly would be nice people if everybody could just start discarding their cards or revealing their Moats, as people often do IRL. This still has complications. For example, if player B and C can both discard and reveal a Tunnel, player B must be allowed to get the last Gold. (in which case player C will probably decide to keep his Tunnel in his hand anyway for his Upgrade) So there'd need to be bullet-proof rules set up for when asynchronicity would be permitted.





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Witherweaver

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #207 on: April 23, 2015, 02:52:57 pm »
+1

Well, you could do it like a queue; you allow player C to submit his order to discard and reveal his Tunnel, which he can't take back, even though it isn't resolved until after player B's choices are resolved. (I'm imagining here player A played a Militia, and both player B and C had Tunnel in their hand.) It's up to player C to realize there's only one Gold in the supply and choose whether or not to wait on what player B does. 

So you could have a sort of floating order queue thing for reactions and halt the game if the queue absolutely needs to be flushed.  I haven't though it through, though; it may not be realizable. 

Edit: So in the Smugglers case, gaining a card might be something that requires queue flushing.   

Edit2: And it would be your responsibility as the Smuggler's player to know that that Gold might be gone by the time Smugglers is played. 
« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 02:55:02 pm by Witherweaver »
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Polk5440

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #208 on: April 23, 2015, 03:21:08 pm »
+1

You don't have to do complete async. Just allowing players the option to queue choices when it is not their turn would speed things up a bit. So this would apply only in 3+ player games. I really only notice slowdown from waiting for other players in 3+ player games for discard attacks and Bishop trashing. So something that would speed this up a bit would be appreciated.
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pst

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #209 on: April 23, 2015, 04:54:01 pm »
0

I disagree: I think it would get very complicated. Suppose that instead of a Horse Traders, B had a Secret Chamber. While B is deciding his reaction to Margrave, A goes ahead and plays his next action, which is a Smugglers, gaining a Gold.  ...

To do it perfectly would be very complicated, but the low-hanging fruit is what's important. I got a bit carried away with a more complicated example, but the important thing is what happens often, like waiting for three people to discard sequentially. You can go on the safe side all the time, and then start making exceptions for that which matters the most (and still isn't too hard to do).

With your Smuggler example, when a list of cards possible to gain is created that perhaps isn't returned until some kinds of events on the queue are gone. There could be more of less complicated rules looking at the queue to see if there is anything there that might empty the Gold pile, but there could also be a general simpler rule "oh, you want to gain a card? that's so complicated so we should have an empty queue except for harmless events of types A, B and C" first.

Quote
Somehow the game server would have to figure out that it was theoretically possible for the rules to be violated and disallow A's action. I'm sure it's possible to do this for all possible cases with a complicated enough set of logic; however, if this were implemented it be both confusing to the players. For example, player A can't play that Smugglers in this case, so he'd be scratching his head wondering why.

I think A should be able to play Smugglers. What A might notice is that he can't pick what card to gain immediately. Still, the interface all this time shows that it's waiting for B to act. When B is really slow I agree there can be scratching. You understand that it is B that is slowing the game down, but it would seem like you got to do half a turn anyway. When B isn't really slow, but only slightly after the others, it will only be noticeable by everything being more smooth.

Quote
A much more manageable idea, which has been kicked around before, is just to allow players to start to respond to attacks (and Masquerade) out of order, even though the responses will be re-played in order. It certainly would be nice people if everybody could just start discarding their cards or revealing their Moats, as people often do IRL. This still has complications. For example, if player B and C can both discard and reveal a Tunnel, player B must be allowed to get the last Gold. (in which case player C will probably decide to keep his Tunnel in his hand anyway for his Upgrade) So there'd need to be bullet-proof rules set up for when asynchronicity would be permitted.

I don't see that as something totally different because it is used only for attacks. It's probably true that most of the low-hanging fruit has to do with those, but as you write there are complications with that as well, so I don't see that there is that much easier to use the framework only for those. There are things that aren't that complicated and would be nice that don't have to do with reactions, and would work with the more general queue. It would for example be nice if I could start playing my turn when the player before me is making choices about Stashes when shuffling in the cleanup phase. With the general queue that would follow naturally from that as soon as there is nothing the previous player can do that affects my hand I could play my first card.

I think it's fun to think of what can be done asynchronously, but it won't be perfect and there is no reason for it to be. Anything that might be complicated could just demand that the queue is empty before it returns. Then you could take one step more and make some things possible to do if there are only certain kinds of events on the queue, focusing on what seems to be most irritating then.
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CATGIRL

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #210 on: April 24, 2015, 12:43:41 am »
+13

Hi David,

I'm new here and this is my first post. There are an impressive amount of responses here. I wonder if you are still reading everything in this thread?

In any case, thanks for the fantastic game. My suggestion is to think more about the experience of new users. Most of these suggestions are for a small elite group of experts and die-hard dominion fans. Likewise, the online game is not designed to be easily accessible to newcomers. I think you are missing out of the opportunity to greatly expand your game, make more money, and attract more new people who will stay and become players/customers. Here's a few ideas:

1. Make it easier to find this game. It is not listed on facebook games or google play. I've been playing games for years and had no idea this game existed.

2. Change the booting feature.... unless you are deliberately trying to lose customers? OK, lets say I am new and come to multiplayer for the first time, here's what happens. I go into a room, join a game, and BAM, "so-and-so has kicked you out." Try another table and, BAM same thing. Why is everybody kicking me out? Why does nobody like me? What have I done wrong? Why are there all these different rooms? What do they mean? Why can't I enter some of the rooms? Am I being banned? Do people not want me in this room? I guarantee you that you are losing thousands of potential players and customers right in this moment. The message should say "We are sorry your rating does not qualify to sit at this table, please visit our beginners table" AND there needs to be a special space for beginners.

3. Prioritize working on the social aspect of the game, not the geeky stuff. Create a way for people to have a friend list, a way to find their friends again, a way for there to be tournaments anyone can easily find out about and join, a way to post pictures for your avatar, a way to log in using your facebook account and real photo. Since you are charging, I am assuming that you are trying to turn a profit. Facebook has 350 million users. You could have a lot more users to. Working on the social piece is going to be FAR more bang for your buck then tinkering with minor changes to game play.

Those are my thoughts. Your game is super great. Thanks so much for making it.

CAT GIRL
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blueblimp

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #211 on: April 24, 2015, 02:25:04 am »
0

For automatch UI, consider "what would Hearthstone do?", because Blizzard has a keen design sense. In Hearthstone, the flow to play a competitive game is: select play from the menu, select Ranked (equivalent to Goko's Pro; as opposed to Casual, which does not display rankings), click Play. You are then matched and put into a game. That's it--no other step.
Expect something much more like Hearthstone for the first iteration. Blizzard did an excellent job with Hearthstone and set a very high bar. (It's a nice position to be in to have many thousands of employees and literally spend billions of dollars a year.)
This is off topic sorry, but Hearthstone was actually developed by a relatively small team compared to a normal Blizzard title:
http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Design_and_development_of_Hearthstone
Quote
Team 5 are the team behind the development of Hearthstone. Until near the end of the closed beta, the team comprised only 15 members, the smallest team at Blizzard.
No doubt there are some aspects of Hearthstone where having lots of resources is a big advantage, like the high-quality voice acting and the interactive 3D boards. For some things though, like the matchmaking UI, the idea of that can be imitated without having to go through as much design iteration it must have taken to get it right in the first place. Some design choices Hearthstone makes actually make the game cheaper to make, like how the only communication options are emotes and friend chat, which I assume must make moderation less expensive, which seems important given the huge number of people who play Hearthstone.

(Unrelated to resources, a luxury Hearthstone has is that it's a computer game only and isn't restricted to follow existing rules, so they can just throw out anything that doesn't play well on a computer, like taking actions during your opponent's turn. Dominion unfortunately has several features that work badly in a computer interface, like Minion-Moat interactions and an awkward effect-ordering resolution system. I really don't envy you guys having to design a UI for effect ordering.)
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DStu

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #212 on: April 24, 2015, 04:26:49 am »
+7

2. Change the booting feature.... unless you are deliberately trying to lose customers? OK, lets say I am new and come to multiplayer for the first time, here's what happens. I go into a room, join a game, and BAM, "so-and-so has kicked you out." Try another table and, BAM same thing. Why is everybody kicking me out? Why does nobody like me? What have I done wrong? Why are there all these different rooms? What do they mean? Why can't I enter some of the rooms? Am I being banned? Do people not want me in this room? I guarantee you that you are losing thousands of potential players and customers right in this moment. The message should say "We are sorry your rating does not qualify to sit at this table, please visit our beginners table" AND there needs to be a special space for beginners.
That should be solved by a good auto-match system, where you just click "search for game", and than get paired with a player of approximately your skill, which they also can't reject anymore (except by resigning the game and therefore losing it)
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CATGIRL

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #213 on: April 24, 2015, 04:42:12 am »
0

thanks for your reply dstu
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #214 on: April 24, 2015, 09:14:50 am »
+3

Hi David,

I'm new here and this is my first post. There are an impressive amount of responses here. I wonder if you are still reading everything in this thread?

In any case, thanks for the fantastic game. My suggestion is to think more about the experience of new users. Most of these suggestions are for a small elite group of experts and die-hard dominion fans. Likewise, the online game is not designed to be easily accessible to newcomers. I think you are missing out of the opportunity to greatly expand your game, make more money, and attract more new people who will stay and become players/customers. Here's a few ideas:

1. Make it easier to find this game. It is not listed on facebook games or google play. I've been playing games for years and had no idea this game existed.

2. Change the booting feature.... unless you are deliberately trying to lose customers? OK, lets say I am new and come to multiplayer for the first time, here's what happens. I go into a room, join a game, and BAM, "so-and-so has kicked you out." Try another table and, BAM same thing. Why is everybody kicking me out? Why does nobody like me? What have I done wrong? Why are there all these different rooms? What do they mean? Why can't I enter some of the rooms? Am I being banned? Do people not want me in this room? I guarantee you that you are losing thousands of potential players and customers right in this moment. The message should say "We are sorry your rating does not qualify to sit at this table, please visit our beginners table" AND there needs to be a special space for beginners.

3. Prioritize working on the social aspect of the game, not the geeky stuff. Create a way for people to have a friend list, a way to find their friends again, a way for there to be tournaments anyone can easily find out about and join, a way to post pictures for your avatar, a way to log in using your facebook account and real photo. Since you are charging, I am assuming that you are trying to turn a profit. Facebook has 350 million users. You could have a lot more users to. Working on the social piece is going to be FAR more bang for your buck then tinkering with minor changes to game play.

Those are my thoughts. Your game is super great. Thanks so much for making it.

CAT GIRL

I agree with your first point. I don't know if this will be on Facebook, but it should be. I know they will have this in the app store and through Steam, so there is that. One thing to also remember is that MF is pretty much rebuilding a game by a company that had no clue what they were doing. Goko did a terrible job which everyone on this forum pretty much agrees on.

For point two, I think all of us on this forum are asking for that. A good automatch feature should handle it. Maybe there could be a place for beginners to play. But, trust me we want the same thing, and we want the lobbies gone.

For point three, I like your idea for the social aspect. I think this can really ring with the casual gamer, turning Dominion into a more social thing. An excellent suggestion.
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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #215 on: April 24, 2015, 11:07:17 am »
+5

Hi David,

I'm new here and this is my first post. There are an impressive amount of responses here. I wonder if you are still reading everything in this thread?

In any case, thanks for the fantastic game. My suggestion is to think more about the experience of new users. Most of these suggestions are for a small elite group of experts and die-hard dominion fans. Likewise, the online game is not designed to be easily accessible to newcomers. I think you are missing out of the opportunity to greatly expand your game, make more money, and attract more new people who will stay and become players/customers. Here's a few ideas:

1. Make it easier to find this game. It is not listed on facebook games or google play. I've been playing games for years and had no idea this game existed.

2. Change the booting feature.... unless you are deliberately trying to lose customers? OK, lets say I am new and come to multiplayer for the first time, here's what happens. I go into a room, join a game, and BAM, "so-and-so has kicked you out." Try another table and, BAM same thing. Why is everybody kicking me out? Why does nobody like me? What have I done wrong? Why are there all these different rooms? What do they mean? Why can't I enter some of the rooms? Am I being banned? Do people not want me in this room? I guarantee you that you are losing thousands of potential players and customers right in this moment. The message should say "We are sorry your rating does not qualify to sit at this table, please visit our beginners table" AND there needs to be a special space for beginners.

3. Prioritize working on the social aspect of the game, not the geeky stuff. Create a way for people to have a friend list, a way to find their friends again, a way for there to be tournaments anyone can easily find out about and join, a way to post pictures for your avatar, a way to log in using your facebook account and real photo. Since you are charging, I am assuming that you are trying to turn a profit. Facebook has 350 million users. You could have a lot more users to. Working on the social piece is going to be FAR more bang for your buck then tinkering with minor changes to game play.

Those are my thoughts. Your game is super great. Thanks so much for making it.

CAT GIRL

As an elite expert and a die-hard dominion fan, all of these sound like really important suggestions. Automatch or a seek graph should fix point 2. A friends list is something I've wanted for ages. None of this "meet me in outpost as dawn's rose-red fingers first touch the sky" nonsense. Also a way to chat directly with any friend online would be good (I think someone suggested this up above, and obviously it will come with Steam, but I would make a steam-independent way too).

Re the booting feature, it's not an automatic boot implemented by MF/Goko, but rather people using the browser extension to auto-kick based on rating criteria. It does have an option of sending a message in the chat explaining the reason, which I'm surprised more people don't use.
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CATGIRL

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #216 on: April 24, 2015, 03:18:14 pm »
+2

Hi BeyondAwesome and GeoLib

Thank you for your thoughtful replies.

I seriously didn't think anyone would still be reading here, the thread post is so long. I'm really impressed with how dedicated everyone is here, and it's nice to know what is in the works upcoming. See you on the outpost when dawn's redrose fingers first touch the sky...

cat girl
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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #217 on: April 24, 2015, 03:37:49 pm »
+1

Oh good, someone else mentioned social features - I'm not insane!

It doesn't have to go as far as profiles or even a messaging system, but having a friendlist would be amazing. I could see it as a sidebar or a separate page. It could show everyone's username, avatar, level/rating, and online status. If they're online you would also see which server they're in and if they're in the middle of a game, and if they're free there would be a "request game" button. And then games started through the friendlist would go in a separate server so as not to take up space in the public ones. That just about covers every option you'd want, right? Oh and a blacklist would be good too.
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Sure it's just a game. The same way that your best friend in the whole world is "just a friend".

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!!CHANGED MY USERNAME ON 2.0!!

rspeer

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #218 on: April 24, 2015, 08:00:44 pm »
+3

We don't need to micromanage how MF sets up their servers. I bet that, unlike Goko, they can manage to design a server with a capacity of more than 50.
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DavidTheDavid

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #219 on: April 24, 2015, 09:06:50 pm »
+1

Yes, I'm still checking in. :)
Hi BeyondAwesome and GeoLib

Thank you for your thoughtful replies.

I seriously didn't think anyone would still be reading here, the thread post is so long. I'm really impressed with how dedicated everyone is here, and it's nice to know what is in the works upcoming. See you on the outpost when dawn's redrose fingers first touch the sky...

cat girl

Yes, I'm still checking in. Thanks for the feedback and ideas. :)
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theblankman

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #220 on: April 24, 2015, 10:16:29 pm »
0

2. Change the booting feature.... unless you are deliberately trying to lose customers? OK, lets say I am new and come to multiplayer for the first time, here's what happens. I go into a room, join a game, and BAM, "so-and-so has kicked you out." Try another table and, BAM same thing. Why is everybody kicking me out? Why does nobody like me? What have I done wrong? Why are there all these different rooms? What do they mean? Why can't I enter some of the rooms? Am I being banned? Do people not want me in this room? I guarantee you that you are losing thousands of potential players and customers right in this moment. The message should say "We are sorry your rating does not qualify to sit at this table, please visit our beginners table" AND there needs to be a special space for beginners.

3. Prioritize working on the social aspect of the game, not the geeky stuff. Create a way for people to have a friend list, a way to find their friends again, a way for there to be tournaments anyone can easily find out about and join, a way to post pictures for your avatar, a way to log in using your facebook account and real photo. Since you are charging, I am assuming that you are trying to turn a profit. Facebook has 350 million users. You could have a lot more users to. Working on the social piece is going to be FAR more bang for your buck then tinkering with minor changes to game play.

The booting thing isn't really Goko/MF's fault... the Salvager browser extension is probably doing that to you.  (See gokosalvager.com, to probably improve your experience with the current version of the game)  Lacking a solid matchmaking system, the people behind Salvager hacked together one of their own, and it included things like, "I only want to play with people near my rating," but the best that could be done with only a browser extension was to automatically click the "kick" button when someone joined who's outside your preferred people to play with.  So that's probably what you're seeing, especially if you're joining games that have things like "5000+" in the name. 

So as has been mentioned, good matchmaking will fix that (Salvager won't need to do "bad matchmaking" any more).  In the meantime, using Salvager yourself will make it easier to find games, since it does provide some auto-matching.  Salvager also gives you custom avatars, and lets you see ones other users have uploaded through Salavager. 

Friend list, yeah, we all want that.  If this new version wasn't coming up, Salvager would probably end up doing that at some point, I think we had it on our feature list, and kept putting it off cause it was big :) 

Tournaments and other organized play... it'd be nice if MF did some of that officially, but there's plenty of it without them actually, much of it organized right here.  I see you've already found the League...

So yeah, some of those things aren't totally MF's fault, they're partly the fault of a community that tried its best to provide those things without being able to actually make changes to the game. 
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Lord Humanton

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #221 on: April 24, 2015, 11:40:38 pm »
+14

I haven't been following this thread too closely, but has Linux support been confirmed yet? I would have no way of playing otherwise.

At the very least you should be able to able to play in a browser, because we'll target Unity 5's WebGL build, which just needs any browser supporting WebGL and asm.js.

Incidentally, ignore anything you read about the Unity webplayer and Linux, because that's old tech. It's based on the Netscape plugin API which is being phased out in browsers these days due to the security holes it creates.

Sweet!  The post I read about you guys using webplayer was months ago, if you've decided to step up to WebGL that's great news for us Linux users!

Due to your guys' interest in this, we tried creating a native build for Linux for the first time today. It works.
theblankman, if you would like to beta-test (really alpha-test) the Linux build, please message me with your email.
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Lord Humanton

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #222 on: April 25, 2015, 12:11:45 am »
+5

I disagree: I think it would get very complicated. Suppose that instead of a Horse Traders, B had a Secret Chamber. While B is deciding his reaction to Margrave, A goes ahead and plays his next action, which is a Smugglers, gaining a Gold.  ...

To do it perfectly would be very complicated, but the low-hanging fruit is what's important. I got a bit carried away with a more complicated example, but the important thing is what happens often, like waiting for three people to discard sequentially. You can go on the safe side all the time, and then start making exceptions for that which matters the most (and still isn't too hard to do).

With your Smuggler example, when a list of cards possible to gain is created that perhaps isn't returned until some kinds of events on the queue are gone. There could be more of less complicated rules looking at the queue to see if there is anything there that might empty the Gold pile, but there could also be a general simpler rule "oh, you want to gain a card? that's so complicated so we should have an empty queue except for harmless events of types A, B and C" first.
Emptying itself can be pretty complicated to foresee. Maybe when player A plays a Bishop, I choose to trash my Feodum because there are 10 Silvers in the supply and I'm the only one who has Feodums. But then I find that the 3 players before me each trashed a Hunting Grounds, chose to gain Estates, and then revealed a Trader for each Estate.

But I didn't mean to imply that emptying a supply pile is the only complication with allowing player A to continue playing cards. For example, in this case with the Bishop, player A might next play a Graverobber and what he sees in the trash will be vastly different without all those Hunting Grounds in there. IRL we play a little loose with the rules (who would insist on making the next player wait because they haven't finished their clean-up phase?), but I think even IRL, I wouldn't let player A continue playing all his action cards while the rest of us are still dealing with our reactions.

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CATGIRL

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #223 on: April 25, 2015, 04:25:39 am »
0

Thank you Blank Man for your detailed reply.

I do have goko now it definitely makes the game so much better. You are right everything will work much better with a matchmaking system. I changed my avatar - but really only serious insiders will know that you need a small file that is a png, and most people wouldn't know how to do that anyway. I am quite ok to be kicked out of a game now, but my first day at dominion it was weirdly demoralizing. I think whoever made goko salvager did a bangup job, it greatly improves the game, I was just surprised they haven't changed the "this person has kicked you out" language, it's so intimidating and would be so easy to change.

How did you know I found the league? You are really paying attention  :)

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DStu

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #224 on: April 25, 2015, 04:52:15 am »
0

How did you know I found the league? You are really paying attention  :)

« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 04:54:26 am by DStu »
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