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Author Topic: Features Thread  (Read 107441 times)

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Watno

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #150 on: April 18, 2015, 09:29:52 am »
+2

Thx Lord Humanton for the detailed answer on what exactly you are doing. Going to greenlight now.

Regarding log/deck tracker
If you keep the searchable full game log, just add a deck tracker that displays how many of each card are in everyones deck. Either that information should not be available at all, or it should be available without the hassle of going through the entire log.
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DStu

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #151 on: April 18, 2015, 09:42:34 am »
0

Thx Lord Humanton for the detailed answer on what exactly you are doing. Going to greenlight now.

Regarding log/deck tracker
If you keep the searchable full game log, just add a deck tracker that displays how many of each card are in everyones deck. Either that information should not be available at all, or it should be available without the hassle of going through the entire log.

This. Also, maybe fork (what have I done? should have known better...)

:e also, I think that should be decided ex cathedra by Donald.  He has stated often enough that these are all variants, and it is his to decide which variant we play online.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 10:07:14 am by DStu »
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #152 on: April 18, 2015, 09:56:20 am »
+5

Thank you all for the posts!!! I counted over 50 distinct ideas and I've recorded every one. Even though they may be known, the prioritization is useful. I've organized them by the number of distinct posters who supported them (unscientific I know but better than nothing.) Based on that, here are the top 10 (or so):

1. Always-visible game logs (on non-mobile)
2. Automatch
3. Kingdom cards on 1st page (esp. if ruins, bane)
4. Real kingdom generation
5. Better reconnect
6. Button options instead having to drag
7. Support Adventures set
8. VP Counter
9. Blacklist
10. Prevent misclicks
11. API
12. Who-goes-first adjustments
13. Rematch

This is great. I think you guys have a pretty good idea of what's important and also the order of what's important. Although, all 13 of these things you listed are pretty important. Anyway, thanks so much for posting.
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Voltaire

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #153 on: April 18, 2015, 10:16:13 am »
+11

Regarding log/deck tracker
If you keep the searchable full game log, just add a deck tracker that displays how many of each card are in everyones deck. Either that information should not be available at all, or it should be available without the hassle of going through the entire log.

That's a step way too far for me. I think a fully-visible log should be something you can get after the game, and iso's "most recent 3 turns" or whatever is ideal for the realities of online play without turning into a full-fledged variant.

But I unfortunately gather that this is not what most people want.
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jsh357

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #154 on: April 18, 2015, 10:21:13 am »
+11

I agree with Voltaire for the record.  The existing log system is a byproduct of how goko mistakenly makes the entire log public knowledge.
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Deadlock39

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #155 on: April 18, 2015, 10:39:31 am »
0

I don't really mind the log either way.

Didn't Isotropic show the whole log when the VP tracker was on, and only the last two turns when it was off?

ehunt

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #156 on: April 18, 2015, 10:52:12 am »
+8

Although I am disappointed with the long timeframe, and aware that it may take even longer, I have to say that the past few posts from Lord Humanton are the first time since Goko started that I've felt I was hearing something from a human who understands design issues are difficult and not an MBA. Thanks very much for listening!
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Watno

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #157 on: April 18, 2015, 10:54:33 am »
+1

Regarding log/deck tracker
If you keep the searchable full game log, just add a deck tracker that displays how many of each card are in everyones deck. Either that information should not be available at all, or it should be available without the hassle of going through the entire log.

That's a step way too far for me. I think a fully-visible log should be something you can get after the game, and iso's "most recent 3 turns" or whatever is ideal for the realities of online play without turning into a full-fledged variant.

But I unfortunately gather that this is not what most people want.

I'm not sure I want the information to be available, what I was saying was that if it is available, it should be immediately available, and not only by going through the log.
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GeoLib

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #158 on: April 18, 2015, 11:05:30 am »
0

(Condorcet is the way to go if you want a mathematically ideal result)

But I'd say Drab's simple forum poll is fine... it's not like we're going to have a precise impact on the outcome of MF's development plans, they just need a rough idea

I mean I think that Lord Humanton's list is basically fine, but I think if we are going to conduct some kind of poll then Drab's isn't super useful and we should do something like range voting (or a Condorcet ranking method).
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Lord Humanton

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #159 on: April 18, 2015, 01:33:21 pm »
+3

I find the match found alert system really useful in the automatch settings.
As it lets you browse away while you wait for a match.
I also think having a "its your turn to do something in game" alert would be a great feature.
Ideally audio plus tab highlighting.

Regarding browsing away and tab highlighting, it's just a guess, but I suspect a significant portion of the regular Dominion players will prefer to use an app compiled specifically for their OS rather than continuing to go through a browser. Anyway, there'll be that choice.
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Donald X.

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #160 on: April 18, 2015, 01:37:48 pm »
+1

Condorcet does give you a results list that ranks all the options according to voters' preference

Range voting would be fine as well
But instead of throwing away the data on just how much each thing was wanted, we can have it. What we want isn't really voting; we just want to know how much everyone wants each thing.

Condorcet is cool, why did I speak up to shout it down when in fact it's this cool thing that does address some problems with voting. For me in the end the solution to problems with voting is usually not to use anything that would properly be called "voting." Voting just throws away so much data.
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Rabid

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #161 on: April 18, 2015, 01:43:37 pm »
+3

I find the match found alert system really useful in the automatch settings.
As it lets you browse away while you wait for a match.
I also think having a "its your turn to do something in game" alert would be a great feature.
Ideally audio plus tab highlighting.

Regarding browsing away and tab highlighting, it's just a guess, but I suspect a significant portion of the regular Dominion players will prefer to use an app compiled specifically for their OS rather than continuing to go through a browser. Anyway, there'll be that choice.

Good point.
In which case please change my request to:
When the game is not in focus, alert me to the fact that it is my turn to act via both audio and visual.
For example changing the colour of the Dominion app tab on the windows taskbar.
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Lord Humanton

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #162 on: April 18, 2015, 02:01:31 pm »
+5

But Automatch and Autokick are crap compared to a seek graph or even a simple seek command and formula-based challenge system like ICC has.
Yeah, I'm familiar with the seek graph, and helped on the design of it, which occurred in the 90's while I was writing an ICC interface. Since then it has been copied by most other serious chess servers, such as Chess.com and Chess Cube. Incidentally, I was the Director of Technology for the ICC for over six years and during that time we invented some cool alternate designs for this, as the seek graph is a bit overwhelming for newbies.

For automatch UI, consider "what would Hearthstone do?", because Blizzard has a keen design sense. In Hearthstone, the flow to play a competitive game is: select play from the menu, select Ranked (equivalent to Goko's Pro; as opposed to Casual, which does not display rankings), click Play. You are then matched and put into a game. That's it--no other step.
Expect something much more like Hearthstone for the first iteration. Blizzard did an excellent job with Hearthstone and set a very high bar. (It's a nice position to be in to have many thousands of employees and literally spend billions of dollars a year.)

« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 02:03:06 pm by Lord Humanton »
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theblankman

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #163 on: April 18, 2015, 02:03:17 pm »
+3

I find the match found alert system really useful in the automatch settings.
As it lets you browse away while you wait for a match.
I also think having a "its your turn to do something in game" alert would be a great feature.
Ideally audio plus tab highlighting.

Regarding browsing away and tab highlighting, it's just a guess, but I suspect a significant portion of the regular Dominion players will prefer to use an app compiled specifically for their OS rather than continuing to go through a browser. Anyway, there'll be that choice.

I think the point is to be able to do something else while waiting for a match (or for the game to need your attention), so OS-level notification of some kind for a native app would serve the same purpose that browser notifications do now. 


Obviously we don't want to break anything, including salvager features, but realistically, some salvager features are higher priority than others. I'm not going to tell someone that the only reason he can't play on his tablet is that we haven't added a Greeting Message feature yet. :-/ So we'll have automatch, game log sidebar, VP counter, animation speed tweaks, stacking duplicate cards... and be trying hard for a personal blacklist and kingdom generation (if we can't, then ASAP after)... while we're going to defer the greeting message, gravitars, notifications, common blacklist, isotropish ratings, extra logging... And some features become moot.

Fair enough, I might be exaggerating a little... I'm a programmer too so I've seen how things can get "pushed out" to never :)  But I also understand the need to prioritize.  That's why I'm one of the few people agitating for an API... if that's in place, you get the luxury of the community maybe picking up some lower-priority features and doing them for you. 
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Watno

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #164 on: April 18, 2015, 06:02:10 pm »
+15

One more minor thing that hasn't been brought up yet:
The game shouldn't end immediately when a player doesn't do something for some amount of time, instead when this happens the other players should be given the option to make the unresponsive player resign.
So if someone needs to get the door / read the cards they can take their time for that if their opponent is ok with it.
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JW

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #165 on: April 18, 2015, 09:57:04 pm »
+8

One item that hasn't been mentioned much because most people here play little multiplayer: when someone resigns or quits in multiplayer, the game should not end. Instead, the best bot should replace the player who resigned/quit.

In fact, more people here might play multiplayer if this were changed.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 10:00:00 pm by JW »
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Sten-Åke

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #166 on: April 19, 2015, 03:12:36 am »
0

      First the important stuff. This have been already said; a +1 from me.

      • Reconnect.
      • Better time-out rules. Perhaps check the cumulative time above a given per turn limit. Enable vote to kick button after passing a time limit.
      • Automatch & Rematch.
      • Better custom kingdom building. This includes importing from logs and other text with a specified format. How do you try out designed kingdoms from design contests for example?

      Some other suggestions:

  • Enable us to give goko-coins to others. Especially if you time the release of the new expansion with the christmas season.
  • Show 3-player and 4-player games and stats separately. Some people doesn't take these games seriously.
  • Show the sets a "pro" mode could possibly contain. The game title is not a good solution.
  • Change the name of "pro" mode. It really is random, rated. Casual is custom, rated. As a new player I avoided "pro" mode because of the name.
  • Improve "pro" mode full random. I avoid the alchemy set because i have heard it doesn't mix well in full random.
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DStu

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #167 on: April 19, 2015, 03:15:45 am »
+6

I avoid the alchemy set because i have heard it doesn't mix well in full random.
it does
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Gherald

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #168 on: April 19, 2015, 03:17:25 am »
+1

Hi Sten-Åke, welcome to the forum!

Alchemy does mix well, actually -- potion-cost cards can be very good even when there's only one in the kingdom.  Don't underestimate them. 

(Apothecary in particular is often much more powerful than it looks at first blush, but all are generally very good, with the exception of Transmute which is a bit of a dud)
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blueblimp

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #169 on: April 19, 2015, 03:52:58 am »
0

(Apothecary in particular is often much more powerful than it looks at first blush, but all are generally very good, with the exception of Transmute which is a bit of a dud)
Philosopher's Stone is also pretty weak outside of the combo with Herbalist. It unfortunately anti-synergizes with most of the other Potion cards too. A generator for interesting kingdoms might have a rule like "only include Transmute if there's another potion card in the kingdom", which would give Transmute a big boost, but I don't know if much could be done to salvage Philosopher's Stone.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #170 on: April 19, 2015, 08:40:15 am »
+2

One item that hasn't been mentioned much because most people here play little multiplayer: when someone resigns or quits in multiplayer, the game should not end. Instead, the best bot should replace the player who resigned/quit.

In fact, more people here might play multiplayer if this were changed.

For the record JW means a game of 3 or more players. I know the screen says multiplayer for playing a two-player game.
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Awaclus

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #171 on: April 19, 2015, 08:49:18 am »
0

Alchemy does mix well, actually -- potion-cost cards can be very good even when there's only one in the kingdom.  Don't underestimate them.

This. Actually, it makes it much less interesting if there are multiple potion-cost cards in the kingdom (unless one of them is Transmute or Philosopher's Stone), since a Potion is often an auto-buy even with just one potion-cost card in the kingdom and when there are multiple, the decision to buy Potion every time usually becomes trivial.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #172 on: April 19, 2015, 09:40:14 am »
0

Alchemy does mix well, actually -- potion-cost cards can be very good even when there's only one in the kingdom.  Don't underestimate them.

This. Actually, it makes it much less interesting if there are multiple potion-cost cards in the kingdom (unless one of them is Transmute or Philosopher's Stone), since a Potion is often an auto-buy even with just one potion-cost card in the kingdom and when there are multiple, the decision to buy Potion every time usually becomes trivial.

Actually, with multiple potion costs cards Pstone becomes a less interesting card. On very rare boards, it is worth getting transmute.
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Awaclus

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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #173 on: April 19, 2015, 11:07:14 am »
0

Actually, with multiple potion costs cards Pstone becomes a less interesting card.

True, but it doesn't affect the interestingness of the other cards.
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Re: Features Thread
« Reply #174 on: April 19, 2015, 12:02:51 pm »
+6

One item that hasn't been mentioned much because most people here play little multiplayer: when someone resigns or quits in multiplayer, the game should not end. Instead, the best bot should replace the player who resigned/quit.

In fact, more people here might play multiplayer if this were changed.

I would say replace them with the bot closest to them in rating (or perhaps the one with the lowest rating higher than theirs).

Also, can we keep the alchemy discussion elsewhere? We've definitely had this conversation before and I would prefer the MF people not have to wade through it to see feature suggestions.
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