Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[enfynet]

Oh, wait, how about this:

Storyteller is an inverse Vault.

Ah ha! So Vault should give +$2 instead of +2 Cards!

They are, after all, essentially the same thing.

[GendoIkari]

Eh, probably will be answered in "Secret Histories", but why is it limited to 3 Treasures?

Power level.

I are need more explain

That's already more strategy advice than I like to give.

Ha, now we know that the best strategy with Storyteller is to cheat and play more than 3 treasures!

[GendoIkari]

I'm curious why it gives +1 action and +$1 instead of just saying +1 action +1 card, as these will amount to the same thing. Is there some interaction here that I'm missing? Overall a really cool card though!

They are not the same at all.

Having +1 Card instead of +$1 would make it *more* powerful, because you could draw your third Treasure to play, if you only had 2 in hand to begin with.

Sure, but it is a 1-card sifting difference. Most of the time +1 card or +1$ amounts to the same effect here.

When N is bigger than 1, N squared is bigger than N. Consider the case where a typical card in your deck is a treasure worth $100.

I don't know what your math is about, but it's still a 1-card sifting difference, treating the next card as if it were already available to use with Storyteller's effect (should the player wish to use the treasure that way). A plus, but most of the time it won't make any difference.

You don't find it neat to have a card that gives a coin you can never use?

"Wow, +1 $? Cool, just what i need! What, why am i broke now?"
I guess that's why she's a storyteller. I really don't like it.

And hey, now we "pay" coins. We didn't need that before, but i guess if you allready play Treasures in your action phase (instead of, dunno, setting them aside, or making it a $4 dependant on virtual money) and have a cantrip disguise itself as a Copper, why stop?

I know you all love crazy. Dark Ages was the craziest expansion until now, and you guys love it. I'm just actually worried whether the (admittedly) few of us that actually prefer simple will have much to look forward to

And yes, i realize i'm pretty much alone on this.

Edit: I see why you would decide to not add the additional sifting. But i really feel it's counterintuitive.

In terms of crazy vs simple.... my impression of Adventures as a whole is that it's designed for those who have gotten so into Dominion that they need crazy to keep it interesting. If you prefer simple, then Adventures probably just isn't for you... I'd say the same about anyone just getting into Dominion; I'd advise them to stay away from Adventures for quite a while.

[Mole5000]

I am solely going to be using this to Storyteler triple Quarry kings court remodel plays.

[werothegreat]

Eh, Lost City is simple enough, and Magpie should certainly be understandable to newer players.

[Witherweaver]

Having a useful card available to you earlier rather than later is in-place deck sifting (in-place because you're not cycling it to a discard). I think that's already clear enough, so I'm not sure what you need elaborated.

Storyteller qua storyteller as a sifter is a separate discussion from everything I have been talking about.  That's one way to think about the card's text turning less-useful treasures into draw; it has nothing to do with comparing it to the -sifter variant I spoke of, which assuming you have something in your hand to sift out is just an exact way to conceptualize if it were to read +1 card instead of +1$.  That concept is useful because it allows you to compare it to the effect of a lined-up Pearl Diver, and have a sense of how big the effect is.

Re-reading the discussion, I think I understand what you meant by "1-card sifting difference" now.  For a moment I thought you were discussing a difference in Storyteller's actual effect of "sifting" the treasures that it plays.  My bad.

So the only disagreement is in how impactful that 1 card can be.  I'm going to trust Donald and the playtesters when they say that it is a significant difference.  Because, well, they've actually played with both versions.

The difference is sort of akin to Warehouse vs. Cellar.  With +1$ (as it is), you get +1 Card from that effect at the end of the resolution (like Cellar.. discard, then draw).  With +1 Card, you get the card at the beginning, to do stuff with (so like Warehouse.. draw first, then make decisions).  Though since that 1 card can do quite a bit (i.e., Platinum example), I can readily believe that the difference is significant. 

[Witherweaver]

I am solely going to be using this to Storyteler triple Quarry kings court remodel plays.

Good plan.  Refuse to buy it on every board that doesn't have all of {Quarry, King's Court, Remodel}.

[-Stef-]

Additionally, I'm just curious what you have at stake in this argument. It seems sillier than most that I read about on these forums.

It's just something the internet does to people. Someone says something wrong and you feel compelled to correct them. What if someone believed them? Then they treat what you said the same way and pretty soon you're having a futile argument in what should be a delightful preview thread.

You have already accomplished the most difficult half of solving the problem - becoming aware of it.

Please allow me to provide you with some unsolicited advice: just let it go.
While some arguments can be fun, this one clearly has gone sour for everybody involved.
The trick I use is: as soon as I feel the urge to repeat a point I already made, just don't do it. It's time for reflection instead.
The reward (not being in a silly argument yourself) vastly outweighs the cost (someone you barely know might continue to think you're wrong).
And sometimes the reflection leads to the insight that I was wrong myself and excuses can solve the problem altogether.

[Witherweaver]

Additionally, I'm just curious what you have at stake in this argument. It seems sillier than most that I read about on these forums.

It's just something the internet does to people. Someone says something wrong and you feel compelled to correct them. What if someone believed them? Then they treat what you said the same way and pretty soon you're having a futile argument in what should be a delightful preview thread.

You have already accomplished the most difficult half of solving the problem - becoming aware of it.

Please allow me to provide you with some unsolicited advice: just let it go.
While some arguments can be fun, this one clearly has gone sour for everybody involved.
The trick I use is: as soon as I feel the urge to repeat a point I already made, just don't do it. It's time for reflection instead.
The reward (not being in a silly argument yourself) vastly outweighs the cost (someone you barely know might continue to think you're wrong).
And sometimes the reflection leads to the insight that I was wrong myself and excuses can solve the problem altogether.

You have a lot of good points.  But let me make one counterpoint:

[Witherweaver]

...

I just wanted to say, I didn't even read this before I upvoted.  I just saw some dialogue and assumed it was good.

Edit: But now I see that you even included Albi, the Racist Dragon, and I know that I have chosen well.

[joel88s]

Additionally, I'm just curious what you have at stake in this argument. It seems sillier than most that I read about on these forums.

It's just something the internet does to people. Someone says something wrong and you feel compelled to correct them. What if someone believed them? Then they treat what you said the same way and pretty soon you're having a futile argument in what should be a delightful preview thread.

You have already accomplished the most difficult half of solving the problem - becoming aware of it.

Please allow me to provide you with some unsolicited advice: just let it go.
While some arguments can be fun, this one clearly has gone sour for everybody involved.
The trick I use is: as soon as I feel the urge to repeat a point I already made, just don't do it. It's time for reflection instead.
The reward (not being in a silly argument yourself) vastly outweighs the cost (someone you barely know might continue to think you're wrong).
And sometimes the reflection leads to the insight that I was wrong myself and excuses can solve the problem altogether.

And on that Sage note from the Champion, I think we're ready for the next preview!

[Donald X.]

I'm confused... why are you posting a preview?  Is this because we're all WW, including Donald X?

Anyway, Storyteller was one of my absolute favorites. Huge fan.

It seemed fun to have five different people preview another card each day. I got the idea 100% from reading the previews for the last Magic expansion, where as usual they sent cards to different Magic sites. I would have had each card on a different site, but there aren't really 5 Dominion sites after BGG. There's here, reddit, and the German forums.

[GwinnR]

There's (...) the German forums.

And we didn't get a card? ;-)

Ok, joking aside. I think it is a cool idea to have different people, which are previewing the cards.

[Donald X.]

There's (...) the German forums.

And we didn't get a card? ;-)

Ok, joking aside. I think it is a cool idea to have different people, which are previewing the cards.

Qvist even volunteered to preview a card there. I felt like if I didn't have 5 different places then they might as well all be on f.ds.

[Minotaur]

Why does she look away from the audience?

If she is in like a village market/town square type place putting on this puppet show there are likely people all around her. You are looking at her from the POV of the other half of the audience.

You get the best seat because you are the lord of the Dominion.  The peasants are lucky that you're letting them watch at all.

[Jimmmmm]

Why does she look away from the audience?

If she is in like a village market/town square type place putting on this puppet show there are likely people all around her. You are looking at her from the POV of the other half of the audience.

You get the best seat because you are the lord of the Dominion.  The peasants are lucky that you're letting them watch at all.

Before I read what was in the quote, I totally thought you were talking to Donald.

[Jimmmmm]

Is it useful to think about Storyteller (apart from what it does with Treasures) in terms of how turning coins into cards effects other cards?

Eg Market -> Lab with a +Buy
Bazaar -> Lost City
Festival -> Lost City with a +Buy
Grand Market -> 2 Labs with a +Buy

[werothegreat]

Is it useful to think about Storyteller (apart from what it does with Treasures) in terms of how turning coins into cards effects other cards?

Eg Market -> Lab with a +Buy
Bazaar -> Lost City
Festival -> Lost City with a +Buy
Grand Market -> 2 Labs with a +Buy

Death Cart -> Embassy with a selective trash instead of the discard

[eHalcyon]

Pawn -> Pawn, but without the choice to get +$1
Secret Chamber -> terminal Cellar
Conspirator -> Moat or 2 Labs

[TheOthin]

Hey now, Pawn could also be a Moat!

[eHalcyon]

Hey now, Pawn could also be a Moat!

Good call.

[brokoli]

Ruined market = Ruined library
Mandarin = Courtyard
Poor house = Potentially Hunting grounds

[eHalcyon]

Ruined market = Ruined library
Mandarin = Courtyard
Poor house = Potentially Hunting grounds

I think you mean Ruined Mine.  Mandarin-Courtyard doesn't work because Storyteller would cause you to draw the card you topdecked.  Mandarin is thus actually more like Moat.

[GendoIkari]

Merchant Ship = Wharf

[pacovf]

Who else is psyched about using Beggar/Storyteller for draw!?