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Author Topic: Preview: Storyteller  (Read 60777 times)

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faust

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #225 on: April 06, 2015, 05:26:22 am »
+8

Who else is psyched about using Beggar/Storyteller for draw!?

1. Use mass Beggar/Storyteller for draw.
2. Buy Mint.
3. Profit.
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Deadlock39

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #226 on: April 06, 2015, 09:41:03 am »
+1

Who else is psyched about using Beggar/Storyteller for draw!?

1. Use mass Beggar/Storyteller for draw.
2. Buy Mint.
3. Profit.

Best if one of the Adventures VP cards ends up counting the number of Coppers in the Trash ;)

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #227 on: April 06, 2015, 09:43:23 am »
+1

Who else is psyched about using Beggar/Storyteller for draw!?

1. Use mass Beggar/Storyteller for draw.
2. Buy Mint.
3. Profit.

Best if one of the Adventures VP cards ends up counting the number of Coppers in the Trash ;)

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jaketheyak

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #228 on: April 06, 2015, 07:29:27 pm »
0

I'd be surprised to see a VP card that cares about the trash, because Donald has tried it twice previously and couldn't get it to work.

Quote from: Donald X.
- worth 1 VP per 3 victory cards in the trash.

...

I tried the first of those in both Seaside and Dark Ages. The Seaside one was called Landfill, and also trashed cards from supply piles. Since you can profit from it being built up, regardless of who does it, what would happen is, we'd fight over them, and then the player with more of them would build it up while the other didn't. Only, if we split them 5 to 3, the difference isn't enough to make it exciting. At first it seemed like it had promise and was a shoe-in, but it was just no fun, it had no fans whatsoever. In my mind City is a fixed version - City is something we can all build up and/or profit from, but plays much better. Forager and Trade Route are in this family but play much differently from City. Anyway you might think it would work as a VP card but man it didn't. I revisted it in Dark Ages; there another key issue was how much caring about the trash varied in power level from game to game.
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enfynet

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #229 on: April 06, 2015, 11:11:51 pm »
0

I'm sure it's been mentioned before. A VP card caring about number of empty piles?
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Tables

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #230 on: April 07, 2015, 09:40:19 am »
+2

Festival = Lost City with +buy
Grand Market = Double Lab with +buy
Vault = Terminal Cellar with +2 cards
Merchant Ship = Wharf without +buy
Oasis = Draw a card, discard a card, draw a card.

Storyteller does interesting things to some cards...
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Awaclus

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #231 on: April 07, 2015, 09:42:32 am »
+5

Merchant Ship = Wharf without +buy

OMG, that's broken.
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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #232 on: April 22, 2015, 08:06:21 am »
+2

Hi everybody,

I think that Storyteller and Coin of the Realm shall be work perfectly together.

Coin of the Realm
When you play this, put it on your Tavern mat.Directly after resolving an Action, you may call this, for +2 Actions.

Because, play Storyteller with Coin.
  • Draw one card by Coin played.
  • Put Coin on the tavern mat
  • Play a terminal action
  • Call Coin from the tavern, and gets more action
  • Redo on next turn


Interesting or not ?


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Awaclus

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #233 on: April 22, 2015, 08:35:26 am »
+1

Hi everybody,

I think that Storyteller and Coin of the Realm shall be work perfectly together.

Coin of the Realm
When you play this, put it on your Tavern mat.Directly after resolving an Action, you may call this, for +2 Actions.

Because, play Storyteller with Coin.
  • Draw one card by Coin played.
  • Put Coin on the tavern mat
  • Play a terminal action
  • Call Coin from the tavern, and gets more action
  • Redo on next turn


Interesting or not ?


That's essentially turning Coin of the Realm into a double Village (with the added bonus that you can keep the CotR on the tavern mat if you want). It depends on the situation if or not it's worth it if you're already going for Storyteller anyway, then it's definitely a nice interaction and I could imagine you might want to buy more CotRs than normally in that situation, but it's not very cost-efficient to buy Storyteller just for the purpose of interacting with Coin of the Realm unless you can reliably Storyteller more than one CotR with every Storyteller and I'm not sure if you want that many CotRs in your deck. If you desperately need more +actions, then maybe sometimes you want to do it just so that you can call CotRs every turn instead of every other turn, but if there's another source of +actions, then that's probably a better solution.
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TheOthin

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #234 on: April 22, 2015, 09:08:55 am »
+4

If you want CoTR, you want it for its double Village status, and getting it on-turn rather than stretched across two turns is definitely an improvement - as Caravan Guard highlights. And turning its coin into a card is often an improvement as well, although Storyteller would spend its Treasure plays on cards that contribute more coins.
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Minotaur

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #235 on: July 02, 2015, 07:47:48 pm »
0

I get the general feeling that this is strong with cards like Treasure Trove and Cache.  Namely, you cheaply gain a lot of treasure of mixed quality.  So say your Storyteller plays a Gold and two Silvers, taking $7 out of your deck.  So what?  You have plenty to go around, and you'll probably draw that and more; if you're not so lucky, you mostly use it as Cellar+card on some Coppers.  Perhaps the challenge is having enough Storytellers to keep up with the gained Treasures while also stretching to get VP.  Meanwhile, you need +buy or something else to do with that big hand to make it better than just raw money.  A single Miser to deal with Copper gains could be a plus in this setup, too, since you will be drawing your deck so much that you will still get to play it often.

So, is Treasure Trove/Cache definitely a synergy in your opinion?  Similarly, Page --> Hero eventually fuels Storyteller fairly well, and Treasure Hunter is fine too, at the risk of over-Silvering your deck if you play the Page game too hard...
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 07:52:10 pm by Minotaur »
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Seprix

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #236 on: July 02, 2015, 08:07:56 pm »
0

I get the general feeling that this is strong with cards like Treasure Trove and Cache.  Namely, you cheaply gain a lot of treasure of mixed quality.  So say your Storyteller plays a Gold and two Silvers, taking $7 out of your deck.  So what?  You have plenty to go around, and you'll probably draw that and more; if you're not so lucky, you mostly use it as Cellar+card on some Coppers.  Perhaps the challenge is having enough Storytellers to keep up with the gained Treasures while also stretching to get VP.  Meanwhile, you need +buy or something else to do with that big hand to make it better than just raw money.  A single Miser to deal with Copper gains could be a plus in this setup, too, since you will be drawing your deck so much that you will still get to play it often.

So, is Treasure Trove/Cache definitely a synergy in your opinion?  Similarly, Page --> Hero eventually fuels Storyteller fairly well, and Treasure Hunter is fine too, at the risk of over-Silvering your deck if you play the Page game too hard...

Treasure Trove/Storyteller/Forager is too OP.
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AdamH

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #237 on: July 03, 2015, 11:10:41 am »
+4

So you know how Stables is good? Those Stables decks you build? Stables is "especially good" when you can't or don't want to get rid of all of your Copper, since in this case it mitigates the downside of having that Copper in your deck. Stables is a lab with a condition, yeah, but then the upside is that it sifts you past those Coppers to provide you extra reliability, and the condition where you need a treasure in hand to make it work is not a huge deal because you have all of these Coppers laying around.

The important part is bolded. Stables doesn't make having Copper in your deck better, it just makes it less bad. Duke makes having Copper in your deck better, but if I'm focused on drawing cards (probably not playing a slog or any other strategy where Copper is actually good) then my choice between Cache and Gold is usually easy (obvs there are exceptions where the only thing I care about is adding extra payload and I'm overdrawing the crap out of my deck, but this is the exception -- Gold is better).

So Storyteller is similar in this case, in fact it's very similar. It's non-terminal draw with a condition, and it has the same Copper-sifting effect. So in this same vein, you don't want to add Copper to your deck unless you absolutely have to, it just helps you draw past Coppers.

But there are differences, too. Most importantly, Stables-as-a-Lab (this means Stables where you actually have Treasures to discard) is a good card in pretty much every deck ever. Maybe not worth picking up at $5 but it's a really good card and it will help you out. Storyteller functions best in decks with high-value treasures, the kind that have been discussed here at length; remember Storyteller isn't worth it if you're only feeding it Coppers, you need to be increasing your hand size with it or else it probably isn't worth it (again, there are exceptions to this but mansies, they're totes not worth mentioning). Like, I think the takeaway from this is that if I want Storyteller in a deck, I may prioritize Copper trashing slightly less, but I would still probably pick it up if it was there, and I certainly wouldn't add Coppers to the deck if I didn't absolutely have to. Remember that exception with Stables, where I just wanted to add payload and I was overdrawing? That totally doesn't apply with Storyteller.

So yeah, the words "mitigates the downside" of Copper I think are appropriate. "Synergy" just isn't accurate.
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Seprix

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #238 on: July 03, 2015, 11:16:07 am »
0

So you know how Stables is good? Those Stables decks you build? Stables is "especially good" when you can't or don't want to get rid of all of your Copper, since in this case it mitigates the downside of having that Copper in your deck. Stables is a lab with a condition, yeah, but then the upside is that it sifts you past those Coppers to provide you extra reliability, and the condition where you need a treasure in hand to make it work is not a huge deal because you have all of these Coppers laying around.

The important part is bolded. Stables doesn't make having Copper in your deck better, it just makes it less bad. Duke makes having Copper in your deck better, but if I'm focused on drawing cards (probably not playing a slog or any other strategy where Copper is actually good) then my choice between Cache and Gold is usually easy (obvs there are exceptions where the only thing I care about is adding extra payload and I'm overdrawing the crap out of my deck, but this is the exception -- Gold is better).

So Storyteller is similar in this case, in fact it's very similar. It's non-terminal draw with a condition, and it has the same Copper-sifting effect. So in this same vein, you don't want to add Copper to your deck unless you absolutely have to, it just helps you draw past Coppers.

But there are differences, too. Most importantly, Stables-as-a-Lab (this means Stables where you actually have Treasures to discard) is a good card in pretty much every deck ever. Maybe not worth picking up at $5 but it's a really good card and it will help you out. Storyteller functions best in decks with high-value treasures, the kind that have been discussed here at length; remember Storyteller isn't worth it if you're only feeding it Coppers, you need to be increasing your hand size with it or else it probably isn't worth it (again, there are exceptions to this but mansies, they're totes not worth mentioning). Like, I think the takeaway from this is that if I want Storyteller in a deck, I may prioritize Copper trashing slightly less, but I would still probably pick it up if it was there, and I certainly wouldn't add Coppers to the deck if I didn't absolutely have to. Remember that exception with Stables, where I just wanted to add payload and I was overdrawing? That totally doesn't apply with Storyteller.

So yeah, the words "mitigates the downside" of Copper I think are appropriate. "Synergy" just isn't accurate.

>Plays Stables, discards copper
>Draws 3 coppers

FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
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Awaclus

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #239 on: July 03, 2015, 11:35:55 am »
+3

>Plays Stables, discards copper
>Draws 3 coppers

FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

At least they're not on top of your deck anymore.
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Asper

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #240 on: July 03, 2015, 12:01:08 pm »
0

Well, Storytellering Coppers is basically the same as Cellaring them. I mean, sure, you get an additional card for Storyteller and can't draw them again later, and Cellar in turn can discard other junk, but doing what Cellar can do is certainly not the best use you can get out of a $5 card.
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Awaclus

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #241 on: July 03, 2015, 12:02:22 pm »
0

Well, Storytellering Coppers is basically the same as Cellaring them. I mean, sure, you get an additional card for Storyteller and can't draw them again later, and Cellar in turn can discard other junk, but doing what Cellar can do is certainly not the best use you can get out of a $5 card.

They can't all be.
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werothegreat

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #242 on: July 03, 2015, 12:10:03 pm »
0

Well, Storytellering Coppers is basically the same as Cellaring them. I mean, sure, you get an additional card for Storyteller and can't draw them again later, and Cellar in turn can discard other junk, but doing what Cellar can do is certainly not the best use you can get out of a $5 card.

Except you can't draw those Coppers back like you'd be able to with Cellar.

I think the general takeaway is Storyteller likes other-than-Copper Treasure gaining.  So Bureaucrat, Explorer, Masterpiece, Treasure Trove, Soothsayer...

EDIT: Also Swamp Hag and Caravan Guard.
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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #243 on: July 03, 2015, 02:07:32 pm »
+1

Well, Storytellering Coppers is basically the same as Cellaring them. I mean, sure, you get an additional card for Storyteller and can't draw them again later, and Cellar in turn can discard other junk, but doing what Cellar can do is certainly not the best use you can get out of a $5 card.

Except you can't draw those Coppers back like you'd be able to with Cellar.

I think the general takeaway is Storyteller likes other-than-Copper Treasure gaining.  So Bureaucrat, Explorer, Masterpiece, Treasure Trove, Soothsayer...

EDIT: Also Swamp Hag and Caravan Guard.
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werothegreat

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #244 on: July 03, 2015, 02:19:20 pm »
0

Well, Storytellering Coppers is basically the same as Cellaring them. I mean, sure, you get an additional card for Storyteller and can't draw them again later, and Cellar in turn can discard other junk, but doing what Cellar can do is certainly not the best use you can get out of a $5 card.

Except you can't draw those Coppers back like you'd be able to with Cellar.

I think the general takeaway is Storyteller likes other-than-Copper Treasure gaining.  So Bureaucrat, Explorer, Masterpiece, Treasure Trove, Soothsayer...

EDIT: Also Swamp Hag and Caravan Guard.

Did not see that the first time!
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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #245 on: August 19, 2015, 02:13:16 pm »
0

Anyone mention yet how Storyteller gets better later in the game? Of course you can sift coppers, but you also sift single silvers, and single gold as well. The condition being that you have better cards/ more high-value treasure to get to. I played a game with only 2 Storytellers speeding up my engine this way and the effect was immense. In fact I'd be willing to be that in most big money decks, ST and maybe a +buy card is all that is needed?

Not to mention chaining together +coin cards that give out actions (w/ the "pay all of your coin" part of the card. For example, Festival>Festival>Silver>Storyteller draws 7 cards. Pretty powerful for accelerating most/all engines, especially for those that run out of money when developing them.
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