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Author Topic: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero  (Read 44327 times)

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hvb

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #100 on: March 30, 2015, 12:15:52 pm »
0

Lost City looks really strong.  If somebody had posted this as a fan card, I would probably have commented that the drawback did not seem to be enough.  I am either overestimating the vanilla bonuses or underestimating the drawback, probably a little of both.

Let's compare Council Room and Lost City:

-CR has on *on play* penalty.  You can get however many you want, but you have to be careful playing them.
-LC has an *on gain* penalty.  Be careful getting them, but once you have them, have a ball.

But which penalty is worse?  The CR penalty happens more often, but not until you've actually gotten a use out of the card.  The LC penalty only happens once, but you might not be able to use the card at all if it's too close to the end of the game.

I am not a fan of this comparision, but if you do so i think the council room penalty is much more worse.
Even if a penalty earlier hurts more than later in the game, you want to play a council room mostly at least 4-5 times in the game. So the worse lost city penalty will get eaten up quickly by the multiple CR-penalties.
The main argument might be, that games, where council rooms were used, are in most cases village-draw engines. These engines are heavily dependant on the realibility of having village-draw in hand, that a 6th card benefits your opponent disproportionately.
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werothegreat

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #101 on: March 30, 2015, 12:16:45 pm »
+1

New best opening: KC/Chapel?

4th player advantage ftw

EDIT: And yeah, pretty sure CR penalty is much worse.  Was kind of confused when I first saw the card.  Is +4 Cards/+1 Buy really that much better than +2 Cards/+2 Actions?
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 12:18:17 pm by werothegreat »
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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #102 on: March 30, 2015, 12:17:12 pm »
+4

Magpie is the card in Adventures that had me worried.
I hope I overestimate it, but if I don't...

I already like the magpie a lot. The art is very nice and it seems simple to play (no hard decisions to make once bought).
Its a bit comparable to vagrant, but much stronger, as you get another magpie, if you dont hit a treasure. In early game one of the seldom case you might want your card not to hit. The hitting chance is much higher in early game than with vagrant.
So it looks like a decent opener if you expect the game to last long, especially in slogs.
Magpie might also enable engines if there is no copper trashing available.

... you can scratch all the maybe's, mights and decents from this paragraph.
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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #103 on: March 30, 2015, 12:20:45 pm »
+3

Great start!  Now I just have to find an old post that makes it look like I predicted something.
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hvb

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #104 on: March 30, 2015, 12:23:19 pm »
+1


... you can scratch all the maybe's, mights and decents from this paragraph.

I am surprised of this advise. One hour after releasing its too early to scratch them. How often even good players thought in past, this card is much too strong and will have a huge negative impact on the game while it has not.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 12:24:57 pm by hvb »
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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #105 on: March 30, 2015, 12:24:48 pm »
+3

Except Stef already played the full set afaik
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hvb

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #106 on: March 30, 2015, 12:28:50 pm »
0

Except Stef already played the full set afaik

Maybe, i dont know, but i have not.
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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #107 on: March 30, 2015, 12:28:53 pm »
+1


... you can scratch all the maybe's, mights and decents from this paragraph.

I am surprised of this advise. One hour after releasing its too early to scratch them. How often even good players thought in past, this card is much too strong and will have a huge negative impact on the game while it has not.

I did not say it would have huge negative impact on the game at all.
Huge negative impact = strong + boring. (rebuild, cultist)
This card is just strong.
And if I'm not mistaken, very strong.

And yes I've played with it.
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hvb

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #108 on: March 30, 2015, 12:35:27 pm »
0

My impression was totally different reading the whole post. Since you have played with that card, i also hope you overestimate it.
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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #109 on: March 30, 2015, 12:36:13 pm »
0

Lost City looks really strong.  If somebody had posted this as a fan card, I would probably have commented that the drawback did not seem to be enough.  I am either overestimating the vanilla bonuses or underestimating the drawback, probably a little of both.

Let's compare Council Room and Lost City:

-CR has on *on play* penalty.  You can get however many you want, but you have to be careful playing them.
-LC has an *on gain* penalty.  Be careful getting them, but once you have them, have a ball.

But which penalty is worse?  The CR penalty happens more often, but not until you've actually gotten a use out of the card.  The LC penalty only happens once, but you might not be able to use the card at all if it's too close to the end of the game.

FWIW, you can mitigate Council Room with Militias. With Lost City, the next player can Militia but he (and potentially everyone else) is definitely getting a turn with an extra card.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #110 on: March 30, 2015, 12:42:19 pm »
+6

New best opening: KC/Chapel?

Potion/Golem.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #111 on: March 30, 2015, 12:43:53 pm »
+1

Lost City looks really strong.  If somebody had posted this as a fan card, I would probably have commented that the drawback did not seem to be enough.  I am either overestimating the vanilla bonuses or underestimating the drawback, probably a little of both.

Let's compare Council Room and Lost City:

-CR has on *on play* penalty.  You can get however many you want, but you have to be careful playing them.
-LC has an *on gain* penalty.  Be careful getting them, but once you have them, have a ball.

But which penalty is worse?  The CR penalty happens more often, but not until you've actually gotten a use out of the card.  The LC penalty only happens once, but you might not be able to use the card at all if it's too close to the end of the game.

FWIW, you can mitigate Council Room with Militias. With Lost City, the next player can Militia but he (and potentially everyone else) is definitely getting a turn with an extra card.

It's On-Gain, not On-Buy, so you could still Militia if you Gain it during your Action Phase.  (Or if you Buy it from the Black Market deck.)
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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #112 on: March 30, 2015, 01:42:12 pm »
+3

I already like the magpie a lot. The art is very nice and it seems simple to play (no hard decisions to make once bought).
Its a bit comparable to vagrant, but much stronger, as you get another magpie, if you dont hit a treasure. In early game one of the seldom case you might want your card not to hit. The hitting chance is much higher in early game than with vagrant.
So it looks like a decent opener if you expect the game to last long, especially in slogs.
Magpie might also enable engines if there is no copper trashing available.

It looks like there's some synergy between Magpie and a Scrying Pool engine.  Either you draw a treasure into your hand, which helps your Scrying Pool hit more actions or you gain another cantrip, which doesn't really hurt.  Magpie might strengthen Scrying Pool when there's not strong trashing.
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ephesos

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #113 on: March 30, 2015, 01:50:33 pm »
+3

The second I saw Lost Cities I thought it was the Reiner Knizia card game. http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/50/lost-cities
Totally ready for a cross game promo

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #114 on: March 30, 2015, 02:18:15 pm »
+5

My thoughts:

Lost City: Card is obviously powerful, tricky thing is how bad the drawback is. I think that will actually vary pretty wildly, but it's pretty easy to underestimate. Obviously the card is best when that's not really a drawback - for instance, if they are drawing their deck anyways, or if they don't have enough buys to make all their money, or best of all if you possess them. The card is a LOT worse than village or lab when you only need one of those two effects. I guess you try to get this as late as possible - definitely prefer other draw cards first until you are over-terminal-ed - but it's going to depend a lot on the board. I think I like it, though I think people will overrate it out of the gate.

Magpie, that is an interesting one. It's easy to look at it and see all upside... and that doesn't seem far off. Only way it can be bad is that other things have more impact. Not great in a treasureless deck, but in about any deck with them, seems real solid. Doesn't do anything SUPER special by itself, but I imagine you will usually want to pick one up. Maybe you pick up another sometimes, especially if there's like, no trashing, but I imagine you're going to feel kind of bad for losing value. Big thing to note is that the pile will probably run really fast really often.

Hero: Basically impossible to analyze without the other cards in the chain. Just want to note that to get all the way to the top of these, it's going to take a lot of shuffles, so if you're counting on that, you need to prepare accordingly.

Witherweaver

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #115 on: March 30, 2015, 02:20:57 pm »
+1


Magpie, that is an interesting one. It's easy to look at it and see all upside... and that doesn't seem far off. Only way it can be bad is that other things have more impact. Not great in a treasureless deck, but in about any deck with them, seems real solid. Doesn't do anything SUPER special by itself, but I imagine you will usually want to pick one up. Maybe you pick up another sometimes, especially if there's like, no trashing, but I imagine you're going to feel kind of bad for losing value. Big thing to note is that the pile will probably run really fast really often.

Could be useful in a treasureless deck for trash-for-benefit  fodder.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #116 on: March 30, 2015, 02:27:03 pm »
+7

I am excited for Magpie/Vineyards and Magpie/Scrying Pool.

Also, Hero can get you P-Stone without needing a Potion. Clearly a power combo right there.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #117 on: March 30, 2015, 02:28:10 pm »
+2

And all that upgradable cards don't look cool with Swindler around

Why?

I mean, sure, you'd almost always prefer not to get a card swindled. But why would it be particularly bad for the Travellers?
We know from the preview that Page costs $2 and Hero costs $5. So the other three ones are probably $3, $4 and $6. I would assume these prices are supposed to roughly reflect not only the strength of their one-time effect, but also the potential of exchanging them. (Or aren't they, Donald?)

So sure, getting your Page swindled into an Estate early hurts a lot. But that's the same as with (almost) any other $2 card. Getting f. e. a Silver for a $3 Treasure Hunter doesn't sound particularly bad. And with the $5 Hero, it will depend on how early they are hit just as with most of the $5 cards - swindling them early hurts a lot, but later on Duchies are not so bad and most other $5 cards usually aren't, either.

It definitely hurts more... because you can't re-buy the card you lost. It's kind of like getting a Prize swindled. You spent several shuffles getting to that card.
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hvb

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #118 on: March 30, 2015, 02:28:22 pm »
0

Big thing to note is that the pile will probably run really fast really often.


It can pile itself if you want to, if you can manage to draw your deck and put lets says 2 magpies in your discard.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #119 on: March 30, 2015, 02:28:54 pm »
0

I am excited for Magpie/Vineyards and Magpie/Scrying Pool.

Also, Hero can get you P-Stone without needing a Potion. Clearly a power combo right there.

Actually, yes. That's probably very powerful on some boards.
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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #120 on: March 30, 2015, 02:38:25 pm »
+1

I am excited for Magpie/Vineyards and Magpie/Scrying Pool.

Also, Hero can get you P-Stone without needing a Potion. Clearly a power combo right there.

Why does an obvious combo that both players will mirror make you excited?  Don't you prefer things that generate choice, not funnel choice?

EDIT: of course getting Hero Swindled is terrible, goodness, you think that card would be balanced as a 5$ with no asterisk?  It's too strong for 5$ even without its ability to graduate.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 02:39:42 pm by popsofctown »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #121 on: March 30, 2015, 02:39:12 pm »
+5

I am excited for Magpie/Vineyards and Magpie/Scrying Pool.

Also, Hero can get you P-Stone without needing a Potion. Clearly a power combo right there.

Why does an obvious combo that both players will mirror make you excited?  Don't you prefer things that generate choice, not funnel choice?

Combos are fun! :))
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GendoIkari

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #122 on: March 30, 2015, 02:40:04 pm »
+2

A non-supply card that doesn't cost 0. Inconceivable!

PPE ~37

Has already existed since Dark Ages.
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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #123 on: March 30, 2015, 02:41:32 pm »
+3

Special bonus: when having discussions, no longer do we have to refer to [+2 Cards; +2 Actions] as once-upgraded Cities or level-two Cities or what have you. Lost City to the rescue!

Testing...

Herald can either be just a cantrip, or a Lost City.

It works!
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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #124 on: March 30, 2015, 02:41:43 pm »
+3

A non-supply card that doesn't cost 0. Inconceivable!

PPE ~37

Has already existed since Dark Ages.

It took me a while to realize you were talking about Shelters.

Special bonus: when having discussions, no longer do we have to refer to [+2 Cards; +2 Actions] as once-upgraded Cities or level-two Cities or what have you. Lost City to the rescue!

Testing...

Herald can either be just a cantrip, or a Lost City.

It works!

Woohoo!
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