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Author Topic: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero  (Read 44328 times)

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liopoil

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #175 on: March 30, 2015, 06:20:15 pm »
+2

Total cards accounted for:

30 kingdom cards --> 300
2 piles with 12 cards --> 4
Travelers ---> 40 (2 series of 4 piles of 5 cards each)
Randomizers: 30
Total: 374 cards

However, there are 400 cards in this expansion. 26 cards still unaccounted for.

The teasers suggested to me at least that the only large kingdom piles are the 12 card piles. So most likely the remaining 26 cards are the events. 25 is a nice round number, so lets say 25 events and a blank or randomizer. I guess events could be kingdom cards, and the other cards a new pile like colony or potion, but that seems unlikely. Hey, the events could make something like a black market deck, that would be cool.

EDIT: Fixed things because I was wrong, thanks LastFootnote.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 06:26:40 pm by liopoil »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #176 on: March 30, 2015, 06:22:07 pm »
0

There are 400 cards in the set, dude. And only 30 Kingdom cards.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #177 on: March 30, 2015, 06:22:50 pm »
+2

Hmm. If you're getting Gold with it, then maybe the best comparison is Soothsayer, which also gets you Gold but also hands out Curses. Even with letting your opponents draw, it's hard to imagine that the Attack component of Soothsayer is worse than +$2.

Soothsayer can't gain Harems.  Or Banks.

Neither can Hero if you're getting Gold with it.

Edge case: Throne Room.
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liopoil

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #178 on: March 30, 2015, 06:22:59 pm »
0

There are 400 cards in the set, dude. And only 30 Kingdom cards.
Oh, whoops. I got ahead of myself. Darn. Not sure where I got that idea from then. Editing my post now.
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crlundy

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #179 on: March 30, 2015, 06:23:20 pm »
0

Lost city seems pretty weak.

From my games with it (and they weren't that many), it seemed pretty strong; the on-gain penalty doesn't seem to matter all that much in the course of the game.  I think Lost City is strongest when it is *both* the only village and the only draw, so long as there is good payload, like Goons or Bridge or what have you.
Well, I haven't played with Lost City, but I love me a City with 1 pile empty. The penalty only happens once so, hey, suffer through it then enjoy the engine enabling.
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AdamH

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #180 on: March 30, 2015, 07:10:29 pm »
0

Magpie == Bacon Cheeseburger, for the curious.

Not a fan?

I think Magpie is a low-skill card, and I tend not to like those.

But Champion, it's not my favorite card right now but eventually I'll come around and love it just like everybody else.  :)
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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #181 on: March 30, 2015, 07:17:16 pm »
+9

I think Magpie is a low-skill card, and I tend not to like those.

Woohoo! Adam has turned around! From now on we can share the love for Black Market and Knights.
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CG19

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #182 on: March 30, 2015, 07:26:14 pm »
0

Black Market and Knights FTW!!!

Just kidding, I'm in the same boat as Adam. But they pale in comparison to my dislike for Rebuild.

I'm excited to use Lost City in engines. I always thought Inn was great, but I wanted it to increase my hand size. So since they are the same price, we essentially have: Discard 2 cards (-) & shuffle in actions (+) = Opponent draws card on gain (-). Should be fun!

Magpie's look like they could be fun. Then again, I'm a fan of cards that can mas-gain value into your deck. But I can definitely seeing them being powerful on boards and then losing the split because of luck.

Quote
There are just ten Magpies in the pile; they’re not Rats with wings.

That made me laugh. +1 DXV

« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 07:28:51 pm by CG19 »
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werothegreat

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #183 on: March 30, 2015, 07:28:37 pm »
0

Magpie == Bacon Cheeseburger, for the curious.

Not a fan?

I think Magpie is a low-skill card, and I tend not to like those.

But Champion, it's not my favorite card right now but eventually I'll come around and love it just like everybody else.  :)

Eh.  Color me in Teacher's camp.
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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #184 on: March 30, 2015, 07:31:14 pm »
0

I am still not the hugest fan of Champion myself, but I don't dislike it like I do Rebuild/Urchin.

Not that this discussion is of much value to most people here.  Or anyone!
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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #185 on: March 30, 2015, 08:00:19 pm »
+2

My biggest worry with magpie is that it's pile will run out really early.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #186 on: March 30, 2015, 08:36:44 pm »
0

My biggest worry with magpie is that it's pile will run out really early.

It's a pile that will (often) run out really early.

EDIT: Well, pretty early. Really early in a 4-player game where everybody buys it.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 08:49:40 pm by LastFootnote »
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tastor

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #187 on: March 30, 2015, 08:43:19 pm »
+5

The teasers suggested to me at least that the only large kingdom piles are the 12 card piles. So most likely the remaining 26 cards are the events. 25 is a nice round number, so lets say 25 events and a blank or randomizer.

The official description on Rio Grande's site says 20 events, the last 6 are probably blanks to round up to 400 for printing reasons.
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popsofctown

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #188 on: March 30, 2015, 10:28:51 pm »
0

Magpie seems like it should cost 2$ by the "Chapel logic".

It doesn't seem like DXV ever used "Chapel logic" again for any card, except Fool's Gold like sorta, but I'm not sure Fool's Gold counts.  It seems like maybe it's not a concept he's stood by.
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AJD

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #189 on: March 30, 2015, 10:39:51 pm »
0

Magpie seems like it should cost 2$ by the "Chapel logic".

How do you mean?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #190 on: March 30, 2015, 10:47:25 pm »
+1

Magpie seems like it should cost 2$ by the "Chapel logic".

It doesn't seem like DXV ever used "Chapel logic" again for any card, except Fool's Gold like sorta, but I'm not sure Fool's Gold counts.  It seems like maybe it's not a concept he's stood by.

No... there's 2 parts of Chapel logic, and Magpie only meets one. Chapel can cost 2 because it's extremely rare that you would want to buy multiples. With $6 and 4 buys, you don't want 3 Chapels. But you WOULD sometimes, possibly often, to buy 3 Magpies.
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TheOthin

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #191 on: March 30, 2015, 10:51:53 pm »
0

In a standard opening scenario where each player gets either 4/3 or 5/2, both players can pick up a $4 card on their higher buy if they want it, and both players can pick up a $2 on either their higher, lower, or both buys if they want it.

It's $3 and $5 where things start varying, as a 5/2 split can only buy one $3 but could buy a $5.
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Donald X.

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #192 on: March 30, 2015, 10:59:21 pm »
+22

I am still not the hugest fan of Champion myself, but I don't dislike it like I do Rebuild/Urchin.

Not that this discussion is of much value to most people here.  Or anyone!
Yes! It would be great if you people who know about non-spoiled non-released cards would completely stop talking about them.
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popsofctown

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #193 on: March 30, 2015, 11:07:01 pm »
0

Magpie seems like it should cost 2$ by the "Chapel logic".

It doesn't seem like DXV ever used "Chapel logic" again for any card, except Fool's Gold like sorta, but I'm not sure Fool's Gold counts.  It seems like maybe it's not a concept he's stood by.

No... there's 2 parts of Chapel logic, and Magpie only meets one. Chapel can cost 2 because it's extremely rare that you would want to buy multiples. With $6 and 4 buys, you don't want 3 Chapels. But you WOULD sometimes, possibly often, to buy 3 Magpies.
I see the second part as being "It's not gamebreaking to let people buy multiples."  2$ Chapel is ok because using plus +buy to get three in one turn doesn't ruin the game.  Magpie's the same, if someone buys three Magpies in one turn that's not tantamount to winning the game or anything.
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werothegreat

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #194 on: March 30, 2015, 11:09:49 pm »
0

Magpie seems like it should cost 2$ by the "Chapel logic".

It doesn't seem like DXV ever used "Chapel logic" again for any card, except Fool's Gold like sorta, but I'm not sure Fool's Gold counts.  It seems like maybe it's not a concept he's stood by.

No... there's 2 parts of Chapel logic, and Magpie only meets one. Chapel can cost 2 because it's extremely rare that you would want to buy multiples. With $6 and 4 buys, you don't want 3 Chapels. But you WOULD sometimes, possibly often, to buy 3 Magpies.
I see the second part as being "It's not gamebreaking to let people buy multiples."  2$ Chapel is ok because using plus +buy to get three in one turn doesn't ruin the game.  Magpie's the same, if someone buys three Magpies in one turn that's not tantamount to winning the game or anything.

But that would diminish Magpie's self-gaining.
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Donald X.

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #195 on: March 30, 2015, 11:10:24 pm »
+3

Magpie seems like it should cost 2$ by the "Chapel logic".

It doesn't seem like DXV ever used "Chapel logic" again for any card, except Fool's Gold like sorta, but I'm not sure Fool's Gold counts.  It seems like maybe it's not a concept he's stood by.
I stand by the reasoning behind Chapel costing $2. And that seems to have all worked out too.

I see reasons to charge $4 for Magpie and do not see reasons to charge $2 for it. It's not really something I should try to argue out here.
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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #196 on: March 30, 2015, 11:49:03 pm »
+1

I could be way off, but it seems like there are times you might want to get lots of Magpies early when you have a high density of treasures and they more often function as labs (or at least gain you a $4 cantrip). Then later in the game in decks where you have gotten rid of most of your treasures and the Magpie pile is empty, they are basically just cantrips and you can use Trash for Benefit cards on them like Rats (without the extra on-trash effect). This works much better when Magpie costs $4 rather than $2, which seems like the same argument for making Rats $4.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 11:51:59 pm by Arctic Penguin »
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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #197 on: March 31, 2015, 12:17:14 am »
+3

I CANNOT wait for this set to come out. I have loved every dominion set so far. The new cards look awesome. I like the idea of the Page/Champion and Peasant/Teacher cards :) It's funny because when I read there was a victory point card that started at zero, I thought Donald was going to make the upgrading system for them. Start with a VP card that is zero and exchange it for a higher level one turn after turn. Anyway, I am pumped for this set. Can't wait for more previews too!
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werothegreat

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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #198 on: March 31, 2015, 12:38:09 am »
+4

Okay, I found this really funny

Gain Province if CoinValueOf(Deck) > 15;
Gain Duchy if CountOf(Province, Supply) <= 2;
Gain Laboratory;
Gain Gold;
Gain Magpie if CountOf(Magpie, Deck) < 1;
Play Magpie;
Play Laboratory;
Gain Woodcutter if CountOf(Woodcutter, Deck) < 1;
Gain Silver;

With that line in red, this beats basic BM 75/25.  Without it, it loses 4/96.  Payload is important.

This, again, is using Chris' simulator.
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Re: Previews #1 - Lost City, Magpie, Hero
« Reply #199 on: March 31, 2015, 12:46:57 am »
+1

Can you post the logs of the games? Those results seem funny (and I'm guessing 4/96 is a typo).
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