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Author Topic: Some multi-purpose cards  (Read 1898 times)

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CavJes

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Some multi-purpose cards
« on: March 24, 2015, 02:08:39 pm »
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Here are a couplefew cards which affect or can affect all players. I have yet to playtest them (cannot afford pack space for a set etc. of IRL cards), but I am curious what people think of their power level at cost and versatility and would be interested in testing them for fun. I've given some of my own thoughts beneath each card's text.

$4 Carnival Action/Reaction
+1 Card, +1 Buy, +1 Coin
                                                                                                   
When any player gains a card costing up to 4, you may discard this. If you do, gain a copy of that card.

Terminal monies, but the option to keep it in hand for its reaction.
I thought about a no-Victory card clause, but figure if you get your Duchies or Provinces down it's not OP. Gardens and Silk Road rushes would like it anyway.

$5 Till Action(/Attack?)
Trash 2 cards from your hand.
Choose a card from the supply with cost exactly equal to the total cost in coins of the trashed cards. Either you gain it or each other player does, your choice.
                                                                                                                                                                 
When you buy this you may trash it and a card from your hand.
Gain a card with cost exactly equal to the total cost in coins of the trashed cards.

Is this too much like Ambassador, and too much better than it at that?
Its $5 cost prevents opening with two of them, but it might get annoying and swingy.
I like the on-buy and don't think it's too strong, but may be in games looking for early spikes like with Tournament.
For space concerns, perhaps on-buy you can just trash up to 2 cards from hand?

$6 Parade Action/Victory
Worth 2VP
+1VP. Gain an Estate.
Each player takes a coin token.

Pretty straightforward. It has the potential both to lengthen games with VP chips, or shorten them on Estate piling and extra coin to spend for both players.
Plus I like the thought of a Parade tossing out candy (though in New Orleans it tends to be condoms and hand grenades), so why not spread the wealth?
Had an overpay, giving +1VP per coin paid. Thoughts on how this could be incorporated in a blanced way?

I may edit in other card ideas here if they relate thematically.

EDITED addressing first couple comments
« Last Edit: March 25, 2015, 03:22:04 pm by CavJes »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Some multi-purpose cards
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2015, 02:33:05 pm »
+1

Carnival is an attack that you have to choose whom to hurt with it; so that could be an issue. It shouldn't have the attack type; just like IGG, because you can't use moat when someone reveals a reaction.
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CavJes

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Re: Some multi-purpose cards
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2015, 02:41:12 pm »
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Carnival is an attack that you have to choose whom to hurt with it; so that could be an issue. It shouldn't have the attack type; just like IGG, because you can't use moat when someone reveals a reaction.

Edited out. I was mostly pointing out it could be used as such, though I do mention it below. Thanks for the clarification.

On another note I see how it could get messy on Goko, it being so oft revealable.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Some multi-purpose cards
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2015, 08:16:36 pm »
+1

Carnival

On play effect is really weak (compare with Candlestick Maker).  The reaction is extremely political, which goes against Dominion design philosophy (though if you like that kind of card, by all means try it).  You can also use the reaction on yourself, but that would just be a restrictive version of Workshop.  As it is, I'd start testing at $2. 

But again, the political aspect of it is not great.  Like, imagine it's a 4 player game.  I play Witch.  Player to my left gains the first Curse, then I and other players all discard Carnival.  Maybe some even discards 2.  That guy gets 4+ Curses all at once.  Maybe the pile was close to emptying as well and nobody else has to take a curse.  Not fun.

I'd try having it just gain you a copy of the card.  Then you could use it as a restrictive workshop or alternatively a mini-Smugglers that can target more players (other than just the one to your right).

Till

Yes it should have the attack typing.  The wording could be tighter:

Quote
Trash 2 cards from your hand.  Choose a card in the supply with cost exactly equal to the total cost in coins of the trashed cards.  Either you gain a copy of it or each other player does, your choice.

The main change here is that now you don't have to choose a card for each player.  This removes some of the politics and also speeds up action resolution.  Seems alright.  It should play a lot like Ambassador early except that it's harder to get and it's going to drain the Estates pile.  Later on, you can use it as a mini-Forge.

The on-buy effect looks fine for balance, but it makes the card as a whole too complex.  I'm not sure it will all comfortably fit on one card.  If you do keep it, I don't see a good reason to forbid Till from gaining itself.  You can't empty the entire pile since it is an on-buy effect, not on-gain.

Parade

Definitely not going to fit on a card.  Take a look at the hybrid VP cards and note how the VP shield already takes up half the available space.  Also note that it goes below the line, so adding an overpay as well would be kind of ugly even if it could fit.  But it really won't.

Card space aside, I don't know how to feel about the on play.  I'd like it better if the Estate gain was mandatory.  I don't like the overpay.  Seems too dangerously powerful to me.
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CavJes

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Re: Some multi-purpose cards
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2015, 03:10:50 pm »
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Carnival

On play effect is really weak (compare with Candlestick Maker).  The reaction is extremely political, which goes against Dominion design philosophy (though if you like that kind of card, by all means try it).  You can also use the reaction on yourself, but that would just be a restrictive version of Workshop.  As it is, I'd start testing at $2. 

But again, the political aspect of it is not great.  Like, imagine it's a 4 player game.  I play Witch.  Player to my left gains the first Curse, then I and other players all discard Carnival.  Maybe some even discards 2.  That guy gets 4+ Curses all at once.  Maybe the pile was close to emptying as well and nobody else has to take a curse.  Not fun.

I'd try having it just gain you a copy of the card.  Then you could use it as a restrictive workshop or alternatively a mini-Smugglers that can target more players (other than just the one to your right).

Till

Yes it should have the attack typing.  The wording could be tighter:

Quote
Trash 2 cards from your hand.  Choose a card in the supply with cost exactly equal to the total cost in coins of the trashed cards.  Either you gain a copy of it or each other player does, your choice.

The main change here is that now you don't have to choose a card for each player.  This removes some of the politics and also speeds up action resolution.  Seems alright.  It should play a lot like Ambassador early except that it's harder to get and it's going to drain the Estates pile.  Later on, you can use it as a mini-Forge.

The on-buy effect looks fine for balance, but it makes the card as a whole too complex.  I'm not sure it will all comfortably fit on one card.  If you do keep it, I don't see a good reason to forbid Till from gaining itself.  You can't empty the entire pile since it is an on-buy effect, not on-gain.

Parade

Definitely not going to fit on a card.  Take a look at the hybrid VP cards and note how the VP shield already takes up half the available space.  Also note that it goes below the line, so adding an overpay as well would be kind of ugly even if it could fit.  But it really won't.

Card space aside, I don't know how to feel about the on play.  I'd like it better if the Estate gain was mandatory.  I don't like the overpay.  Seems too dangerously powerful to me.

Re: Carnival

I realize the on-play compared to CM it is weak. I considered +1 Card over action, which I think fits the flavor better by a bit as its reaction makes it sort of non-terminal. I had it that way until I began comparisons to Festival, but I see no reason to remain stuck on that comparison.

And hey, the reaction doesn't need to do everything. I like that it could be used to double junk, but play with it would be clunky and potentially very annoying. I'll switch it to just you gain, which is cleaner. It may still be a lot to have the option on every gain 4 or less, but once it's discarded it's gone.

Re: Till

Wording looks better, thanks, I was struggling with that. The main reason I prevented gaining Till with the on-buy is I just didn't like the idea of trashing a Curse or Copper and still getting a Till for further trashing. But that's not so strong and omitting the the restriction does make it tighter.

Re: Parade

Yeah this was the riskiest and I see what you mean about space on the card. The overpay isn't necessary though I do like the flavor. I'll edit it a bit to address these points...could it still be a Victory card if I just took out the worth 2VP and kept the overpay?
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eHalcyon

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Re: Some multi-purpose cards
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2015, 03:23:32 pm »
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For future readers, the overpay gained VP tokens.

I don't know, it still seems dangerous.  Either you make the upfront cost so high that the card is overpriced on almost every board or you have an extremely potent and efficient VP card that awards extreme engine overbuilding.  I'm not sure that a good balance can be struck, and playtesting it is very tricky because the dangerous case requires very high level play to work out.
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Awaclus

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Re: Some multi-purpose cards
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2015, 03:31:37 pm »
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You should consider making Carnival a Duration instead of Reaction so that people could confuse it with Caravan.
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