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Author Topic: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?  (Read 33426 times)

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Copernicus

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #75 on: January 04, 2012, 04:15:30 pm »
0

One thing that I would sort of like to see, while at the same time think it's probably a bad idea... alternate win conditions. Some of my favorite cards in Magic are the ones that let you win the game without killing your opponent. "At the start of your turn, if such and such conditions are met, you win the game." In Dominion, this of course poses the problem of what can your opponents do to stop you? There is no enchantment destruction! So I don't think it could ever work, but it would be fun to see.

Goons and variable-point Victory cards both offer alternate win conditions.

------

The main problem with any drawback-themed set is that standard game players hate drawbacks.  For the obvious Dominion example, look at how difficult it is to get people to start using Chapel.

It's certainly interesting territory to explore with a lot of options, but I'd expect a sub-theme along the lines of Embassy or Council Room and not a full-blown set.
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tlloyd

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #76 on: January 04, 2012, 04:47:14 pm »
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Mechanics

I have always been in favour of fiddling with the Curses, but I understand such a thing is very hard to balance.
I've talked about Curse / X dualtype cards in the past and about a card that both gives Curses and does something with them.

The trash has been considered a no go area, but I think it could be used for some cards.

I know we're trying to avoid devolving into a fan-card discussion, but I am still a big fan of

Witchdoctor
Action-Attack ($6)
"+2 Cards. Choose one: trash (any/up to #) of Curses from your hand, gaining 1 VP per curse trashed, OR each other player gains a Curse and loses 1 VP."
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GendoIkari

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #77 on: January 04, 2012, 06:06:00 pm »
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One thing that I would sort of like to see, while at the same time think it's probably a bad idea... alternate win conditions. Some of my favorite cards in Magic are the ones that let you win the game without killing your opponent. "At the start of your turn, if such and such conditions are met, you win the game." In Dominion, this of course poses the problem of what can your opponents do to stop you? There is no enchantment destruction! So I don't think it could ever work, but it would be fun to see.

Goons and variable-point Victory cards both offer alternate win conditions.

------

The main problem with any drawback-themed set is that standard game players hate drawbacks.  For the obvious Dominion example, look at how difficult it is to get people to start using Chapel.

It's certainly interesting territory to explore with a lot of options, but I'd expect a sub-theme along the lines of Embassy or Council Room and not a full-blown set.

I was going to mention other VP cards and VP chips in my post; I guess I forgot. I don't think of those as alternate win conditions, the win condition is still "you won because you had more VP than your opponent." In Magic, the normal win condition is "you win if your opponent has no life." Alternate win conditions allow you to win while your opponent still has life. In Dominion, the win condition is "you win if you have more VP than your opponent (when the game ends)."

Granted, early on in Dominion, it often felt like the win condition was "the player with the most Provinces wins," but that was never the stated rules for winning.
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werothegreat

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #78 on: January 05, 2012, 03:00:02 am »
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Just as a thought, apparently Adventurer was taken from this next expansion.  What mechanic can we deduce from this applies to the set as a whole?
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Donald X.

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #79 on: January 05, 2012, 05:00:11 am »
+1

Just as a thought, apparently Adventurer was taken from this next expansion.
It wasn't.

There were five 20-card expansions when RGG took the game. At one point before Dominion came out I rearranged the cards I had (including ones not in expansions) into eight 16-card expansions. At that point Adventure was in the 7th expansion. This was just an experiment and of course the expansions ended up being ~25 cards, and then it turned out there would be ~13 card expansions too. With the switch to 25, before the small expansions became a thing, I had 6 expansions. The small 7th expansion did not have a strong enough theme to hold onto its cards, and other expansions sucked them up.
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Epoch

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #80 on: January 05, 2012, 01:20:10 pm »
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In part, I think it's because "Curse" is both a card type and the card name, and so if there were alternate cards of the "Curse" type, a lot of instructions ("gain a Curse") would become annoyingly ambiguous.

Though that's not really a big problem.  Create a card that's, like, some other negative-vp-card-that's-not-called-Curse.  Um.  Hex.  Curses still refer to Curses, and you can have a card that gives out Hexes, or one that trashes Curses and Hexes, or whatever.

But there are other, bigger problems with cards that are worth negative VP but have some conciliatory benefit with them.
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ecq

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #81 on: January 05, 2012, 01:53:29 pm »
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Beyond the Hinterlands... the Underworld?  Interaction with the trash pile would probably be too crazy (though maybe an expensive way to save cards destined for the trash wouldn't be), but interaction with the discard pile could be interesting.

Counting House seems like the tip of the iceberg.  For instance, there could be an attack where each player reveals his discard pile and shuffles revealed victory cards (curses, coppers, whatever) into his deck.

Oddly and maybe interestingly, Chancellor could become extremely powerful with such an expansion.
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Davio

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #82 on: January 05, 2012, 02:08:51 pm »
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It would be funny if a card that is currently almost never bought would become great with the new expansion.

1. Chancellor: There could be another card (like Stash) that triggers on reshuffles, but is way more powerful than a Silver.
2. Counting House: So there's the occasional Mountebank and IGG game (perhaps Cache as well), but how about a card that lets you gain 10 Coppers at once? This would radically spice up Gardens games and other rush strategies.
3. Navigator: This has probably become already a bit better due to Tunnel, but there have to be more uses for it. I like to buy it if I know I can always play it.
4. Stash; I guess no one likes the hassle, but as well as another Stash, there could be another Chancellor. :p
5. Harvest: I feel this is often a Gold that you have to spend an Action on. I wonder if this card would have been overpowered if it would give $5 for 4 different cards or if it would have been better. There could be a Reaction card to an opponent revealing something from the top of his deck or something, but it would possibly needlessly lengthen player turns.
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brokoli

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #83 on: January 06, 2012, 06:35:30 am »
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I wonder if there will be a single-type victory card, like Gardens in the base set, Duke in Intrigue, Vineyard in Alchemy, Fairgrounds in Cornuccopia and Silk Road in Hinterlands.

I think about :

- A card which depend on the treasures
- A card which depend on the estates
- The opposite of the gardens (X VP - Y for every Z cards in your deck)
- The opposite of the fairgrounds (X VP for every Y same named cards in your deck)
- The opposite of silk road (X VP - Y for every Z victory cards in your deck)
- A card which depend on the total cost of the cards in your deck (X VP for every Y$ in your deck).

These ideas are a little crazy, and I'm sure the majority of these cards doesn't work. But... it's fun to imagine  :D
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Epoch

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #84 on: January 06, 2012, 01:09:56 pm »
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A VP card that depends on Treasures is probably a bad idea.  Big Money's attractiveness is a problem for Dominion, not something that needs encouragement.  (A VP card that depends on Coppers might be interesting, though).

You could have a VP card that depends on itself.  With, say, an "island" of bad costing:

Sample VP Card
$4 Victory
If you have 1 of these cards, it is worth 3 VP
If you have 2 of these cards, it is worth -1 VP
If you have 3 of these cards, it is worth 0 VP
If you have 4 of these cards, it is worth 2 VP
If you have 5 of these cards, it is worth 3 VP
If you have 6+ of these cards, it is worth 5 VP

Or whatever, to make it work.  Maybe put another card in the set that can force people to take them or trash them, and let people sit in the agony of analysis paralysis.
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play2draw

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #85 on: January 07, 2012, 01:05:07 am »
+1

Since you're talking about a VP card that depends on itself, I'd like to see:

CARD
$2 Victory
When you gain this card, place a VP token on this pile.
For each VP token on this pile, the cost of this card increases by 1.
At the end of the game, this card is worth victory points equal to the number of VP tokens on this pile.

I enjoy cards like City and Trade Route, and would love a set that focuses on cards that meaningfully enhance player interaction.
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TheMathProf

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #86 on: January 07, 2012, 08:24:43 am »
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I'd be more impressed with that VP card that depended on itself if the cost also went up as time went on (i.e. this card costs $2 + $1 for every VP token on the pile).
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david707

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #87 on: January 07, 2012, 08:41:22 am »
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Yes
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play2draw

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #88 on: January 07, 2012, 11:03:14 am »
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I'd be more impressed with that VP card that depended on itself if the cost also went up as time went on (i.e. this card costs $2 + $1 for every VP token on the pile).

Yeah, that's what I intended, but maybe I didn't write it correctly. Looking at Peddler it should have said "this costs" instead of "this card costs". Also an asterisk next to the $2 would have helped.

Also, I'm aware this ain't the variants forum, so from hereon I shall refrain from such discussion :P
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TheMathProf

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #89 on: January 08, 2012, 09:56:03 am »
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^ You actually even said that... I just somehow missed it.  :)
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Piemaster

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #90 on: January 09, 2012, 11:21:18 am »
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Actually there is a lot of scope for cards which synergise or de-synergise with themselves, even though we have seen some in earlier expansions (Fool's Gold, Crossroad, Treasure Map etc).  Could even be a theme for an expansion in itself.
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werothegreat

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #91 on: January 15, 2012, 12:56:14 pm »
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Apparently the next expansion is going to be called Dark Ages. Thoughts?
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CaptainNevada

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #92 on: April 20, 2012, 03:59:00 am »
+1

Perhaps the opposite of Prosperity.  There, times were good.  Dark Ages suggests times are bad.  The focus would be on cards that are cheap and rewards you for having cheap cards and will help you get cheap cards.  It would be a shift like the diversity theme of Cornucopia.  It would need some enabler cards (consider a menagerie-like card that worked on cards costing $3 or $4 or less; e.g. Census $3 - +1 Action. Reveal Your Hand.  If there are no cards costing $4 or more, +3 cards;  Otherwise, +1 card).  It could fill in a gap with a $1 card (Peasant - +1 card) which would cause rethinking certain trashers (remake for example, though thematically the set should include the exact opposite of it like Demolish $4 - Do this twice; trash a card.  Gain a card costing exactly $1 less than the trashed card).  It would need a victory card that rewarded the theme as well (Badlands $?, Worth + 1 VP per X cards in your deck costing $X or less).

Most sets include a new kind of reaction card, victory card, treasure, and trashing card. 

Apparently the next expansion is going to be called Dark Ages. Thoughts?
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werothegreat

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #93 on: April 20, 2012, 04:11:58 pm »
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There could also be an entirely new card type - no idea what it would be, though.  I'm hoping for a red background.
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