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Author Topic: Neat and potentially useful card interactions  (Read 141674 times)

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weesh

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1150 on: December 11, 2017, 01:56:55 pm »
+1

My friend won last night with a ghost/counsel room deck. 
(He used exorcist to turn 5$ actions into ghosts)

With the massive draw actions as his only actions, the ghost never missed, and he would draw into another ghost for the next turn almost guaranteed.  The Multiple +Buy on the counsel room was highly relevant in a deck full of gold. 

If you draw all of your ghosts, we learned not to play one of them, so you would be able to draw it the next turn.

It was one of those "shuffle twice per turn decks"
« Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 02:00:25 pm by weesh »
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faust

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1151 on: December 13, 2017, 10:50:14 am »
+15

Shepherd/Summon is just stupidly good on a 5/2 opening.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Chris is me

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1152 on: December 13, 2017, 03:52:53 pm »
0

Shepherd/Summon is just stupidly good on a 5/2 opening.

Seems like this will get you a hand of anywhere from $5 to $7 depending on luck of the draw and if the Heirloom is in the 2 hand or not. Quite nice!
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Gazbag

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1153 on: December 13, 2017, 04:32:01 pm »
+1

To carry on with the Shepherd theme:

Shepherd + Apothecary

Apothecary struggles with green cards and Shepherd struggles with Coppers, quite a nice skeleton for an engine. Apothecary can even set up your next turn with a Shepherd and some greens, retaining value even if you trash your Coppers.
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ConMan

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1154 on: December 13, 2017, 11:08:20 pm »
+8

Dismantle / Ferry / a useful or Action

On 3/4 you can open Ferry/Dismantle, putting your cost reduction token on the other Action pile to take it down to or , so that you can then Dismantle your Estates for Gold and the Action. I suspect Pawn and Native Village are both good options, but there would be a lot of possibilities depending on what else is on the board.
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teamlyle

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1155 on: December 14, 2017, 01:45:27 pm »
+8

Skulk + Encampment: Skulk gives you +buy to pick up Encampments quickly, and gives you a gold to reveal to Encampments.
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Cuzz

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1156 on: December 14, 2017, 03:30:40 pm »
+11

Quest - Tunnel

You don't actually need to have 6 cards in hand to pick that option with Quest and discard all your Tunnels.
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ipofanes

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1157 on: December 15, 2017, 04:34:02 am »
0

Plan + Market Square

On weak BM boards this can be a strategy in and of itself. Just open Plan / MS and trash Estates and Coppers, gaining roughly one Gold at a time this way. Sometimes you'll get two! You should then be ready to green. Obviously this isn't that strong but it can work out OK if you're otherwise bored.

That puts the "potentially" into "potentially useful" for sure.

Secret Passage + Herald/Wishing Well/Mystic/Vassal/Masquerade/Patrol/Scrying Pool

Put a Copper in your next hand for Mask protection, or an Action card for Herald/Vassal/Wishing Well/Mystic. Tuck away a Curse/Victory for Patrol pick up on dispatch.

Harbinger + Prizes/Fortune

Never stop playing Steed, Followers or Princess. Or maybe a Fortune instead.

Secret Passage also works with Vagrant, Cartographer, Sentry, Lookout, Doctor...

May I add Chariot Race to the mix. The procedure (sneak in the winner through a sectret passage) reminds me a lot of the way the hedgehog outdid the hare in a running contest (http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/grimm187.html). I rigged a lot of races in a game yesterday.

EDIT: I just saw it covered in the Secret Passage article (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17617.0).
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 06:43:08 am by ipofanes »
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William Howard Taft

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1158 on: December 19, 2017, 03:34:16 pm »
+8

Rats has a ton of great interactions with Nocturne.

Rats/Exorcist - Exorcist is terrible at trashing Copper and Curses, but trashing Rats gives you Imps
Rats/Necromancer - Zombie Apprentice gives you +4 Cards and an Action, Zombie Mason +1 Card, Gain a card costing up to $5
Rats/Changeling Trash a card, gain a Changeling

Rats also protects you against some of the nastiest hexes. War just draws you an extra card, and Locusts draws you a card and gains you an Action costing $2 or $3.

Then there's just a bunch of trashing options to help keep them from getting out of control: Bats and the Flame's Gift are great, and worst case scenario your Goat can eat Rats and hopefully draw you an extra treasure or Night card.
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greybirdofprey

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1159 on: December 22, 2017, 02:57:55 pm »
0

I just flooded my deck with cellars and tunnels and it worked.

Also, highway + university.
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weesh

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1160 on: December 23, 2017, 12:12:29 am »
0

highway + university.
did you mean bridge + university?
I'm confused as to why you are specifically calling out the highway.
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dz

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1161 on: December 23, 2017, 01:23:06 am »
+1

highway + university.
did you mean bridge + university?
I'm confused as to why you are specifically calling out the highway.

Bridge is terminal, while Highway isn't. Highway then Uni is easier to get than Bridge then Uni.
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William Howard Taft

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1162 on: December 23, 2017, 12:22:06 pm »
+1

Leprechaun/Storyteller has a great thematic interaction. Leprechauns are so much nicer in stories! Nothing but good luck, gold, and wishes come true.
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JThorne

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1163 on: December 23, 2017, 12:26:53 pm »
+3

Actually, I would go as far as to say Highway + University is NOT a helpful combination.

University is expensive and difficult to buy because of the potion cost. It ALREADY gains $5-cost cards, so the cost reduction given to you by Highway doesn't help you gain more Highways, so you're very likely going to be over-investing to get them, and neither card gives you the + buy so desperately needed when there's a cost-reducer in the kingdom. And University only gains actions, so you can't even use it to gain Provinces after playing three Highways!! (Could get a cheap Prince or Artisan or something, though.)

Highway/University is definitely not a thing. In a full-blown engine, with trashing, a good draw card, and a source of +buy, there is some possibility that you might play one or maybe two Universities in a megaturn engine featuring Highway, but the two cards don't interact in any meaningful way. If anything, they almost belong in the "annoying and potentially harmful" thread.

As a general rule, though, just make a mental note of [any cost reducer + any gainer] is usually a good thing. Not really an interesting card interaction; just how the game works.
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Gazbag

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1164 on: December 23, 2017, 01:32:09 pm »
0

Actually, I would go as far as to say Highway + University is NOT a helpful combination.

University is expensive and difficult to buy because of the potion cost. It ALREADY gains $5-cost cards, so the cost reduction given to you by Highway doesn't help you gain more Highways, so you're very likely going to be over-investing to get them, and neither card gives you the + buy so desperately needed when there's a cost-reducer in the kingdom. And University only gains actions, so you can't even use it to gain Provinces after playing three Highways!! (Could get a cheap Prince or Artisan or something, though.)

Highway/University is definitely not a thing. In a full-blown engine, with trashing, a good draw card, and a source of +buy, there is some possibility that you might play one or maybe two Universities in a megaturn engine featuring Highway, but the two cards don't interact in any meaningful way. If anything, they almost belong in the "annoying and potentially harmful" thread.

As a general rule, though, just make a mental note of [any cost reducer + any gainer] is usually a good thing. Not really an interesting card interaction; just how the game works.

University is nice with any spammable (usually cantrip) $5's Highway certainly fits the bill there. Whether the cost reduction helps Uni is board dependant but I think you're overthinking this a bit. Obviously Uni+Highway isn't very good on it's own but saying they don't interact in a meaningful way is a bit silly.
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Chris is me

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1165 on: December 23, 2017, 01:45:56 pm »
+1

Highway / Thing That Can Gain Highway is a useful interaction; it doesnít only become useful if you need highway in play for the gainer to work? Itís not particularly, uh, out of the ordinary but it is Something
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AJD

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1166 on: December 23, 2017, 03:36:01 pm »
+2

I mean, sure, but like, University combos with Highway no better than it does with, say, Treasury.
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Gazbag

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1167 on: December 23, 2017, 04:01:59 pm »
0

I mean, sure, but like, University combos with Highway no better than it does with, say, Treasury.

Sometimes there are actions that cost $6+ on the board so that isn't always true. More importantly though Treasury is a really nice card with University and Highway is no worse. I don't think University/Highway is an amazing combo or anything (unless Kings Court or something is on the board). I was mainly disagreeing with JThorne saying that they almost belong in the "annoying and potentially harmful" thread, which obviously isn't true.
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greybirdofprey

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1168 on: December 24, 2017, 06:03:08 am »
0

I mean, sure, but like, University combos with Highway no better than it does with, say, Treasury.

Sometimes there are actions that cost $6+ on the board so that isn't always true. More importantly though Treasury is a really nice card with University and Highway is no worse. I don't think University/Highway is an amazing combo or anything (unless Kings Court or something is on the board). I was mainly disagreeing with JThorne saying that they almost belong in the "annoying and potentially harmful" thread, which obviously isn't true.

Right, I am an idiot. University specifies 'action'. I was looking for a non-terminal anything gainer to combo with Highway for gaining several Provinces each turn. Artificer requires either a lot of Highways or a lot of discards, Vampire works, but Bat doesn't gain, Devil's Workshop only lets you do it once each turn, Cobbler is played at start-of-turn, Wish is hard to get.
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weesh

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1169 on: December 24, 2017, 11:26:18 am »
+2

"village + storeroom + village + library" just got simplified to Cursed Village + Storeroom

Have you ever thought: "you know what would make dominion better?  shuffling 3-4 times per turn."?
Apparently the storerooms in cursed villages have something different in them every you enter them, so you want to do it all the time.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 11:30:00 am by weesh »
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Chris is me

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1170 on: December 24, 2017, 11:51:49 am »
+2

"village + storeroom + village + library" just got simplified to Cursed Village + Storeroom

Have you ever thought: "you know what would make dominion better?  shuffling 3-4 times per turn."?
Apparently the storerooms in cursed villages have something different in them every you enter them, so you want to do it all the time.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17953.0
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Asper

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1171 on: December 25, 2017, 06:32:33 am »
0

The local Wolf Den won't annoy you as much when you go for a monolithic Werewolf strategy.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1172 on: December 25, 2017, 08:46:23 am »
0

Highway / Thing That Can Gain Highway is a useful interaction; it doesnít only become useful if you need highway in play for the gainer to work? Itís not particularly, uh, out of the ordinary but it is Something

That's true, but also obvious that gainers that can gain the card whose split you need to win are good with those cards.
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JThorne

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1173 on: December 27, 2017, 10:55:40 am »
+3

Quote
I was mainly disagreeing with JThorne saying that they almost belong in the "annoying and potentially harmful" thread, which obviously isn't true.

I'm not so sure. Here's the big question: If the kingdom has a good source of +buy, isn't is possible that Silver/Highway/+buy would get more Highways faster than investing in the potion and the University? There's a good chance that the early hands where you draw potion can't afford a Highway, and the early hands where you draw University will gain a Highway, but not buy one. If going the University route causes you to lose the Highway split, then it's definitely harmful.

But in any case, University + any spammable $5 cost, while sometimes useful, isn't exactly a "neat" interaction. It would be like posting Tunnel + Warehouse in this thread. That's not interesting, it's just what Tunnel does. Most of the stuff here is interactions that don't appear in the wiki and are usually one specific card with another specific card doing something interesting together that most players don't see on first glance.

I'm not trying to be a pain; I thought I knew how to play this game before I came to this forum, and the more I read, the more I re-think many of my initial assumptions, and the more I learn strategies, principles, interactions and techniques. Even the arguments are interesting.
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Gazbag

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1174 on: December 27, 2017, 11:44:20 am »
0

Quote
I was mainly disagreeing with JThorne saying that they almost belong in the "annoying and potentially harmful" thread, which obviously isn't true.

I'm not so sure. Here's the big question: If the kingdom has a good source of +buy, isn't is possible that Silver/Highway/+buy would get more Highways faster than investing in the potion and the University? There's a good chance that the early hands where you draw potion can't afford a Highway, and the early hands where you draw University will gain a Highway, but not buy one. If going the University route causes you to lose the Highway split, then it's definitely harmful.

But in any case, University + any spammable $5 cost, while sometimes useful, isn't exactly a "neat" interaction. It would be like posting Tunnel + Warehouse in this thread. That's not interesting, it's just what Tunnel does. Most of the stuff here is interactions that don't appear in the wiki and are usually one specific card with another specific card doing something interesting together that most players don't see on first glance.

I'm not trying to be a pain; I thought I knew how to play this game before I came to this forum, and the more I read, the more I re-think many of my initial assumptions, and the more I learn strategies, principles, interactions and techniques. Even the arguments are interesting.

This is how you should always be thinking about University though, it isn't something unique to Highway that would warrant the "potentially harmful" badge. Everything in dominion is potentially harmful if you use that logic because nothing is good 100% of the time. Sometimes Uni is good, sometimes it isn't. I'd say that the presence of Highway will more often be a point towards going for Uni than against it as it's a nice thing to pick up once you've gotten all the terminals you need and occasionally the cost reduction will matter.

I agree with you about this not being a particularly "neat" interaction.

Don't worry, you aren't being a pain! This is exactly what the forum is for!
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