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Author Topic: Neat and potentially useful card interactions  (Read 132988 times)

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crj

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1125 on: November 29, 2017, 08:10:37 pm »
0

Actually, it's Capital + 2*Crypt

Agreed; I typoed. (That's why the otherwise-spurious 1* ended up there!)

As for the rest of your analysis... very interesting. Though I'm still skeptical: simply comparing 9 $5 buys with 6 $6 buys and a $5 ignores the question of how easily you can achieve those buys with half the double-Province engine.

With Gold, the answer is obvious: you have to push a little to get the first, but then Gold begets gold. A single Capital with no Crypts lets you spike your spend, but provides you with no net economy; a single Capital with one Crypt seems to compare quite poorly with one Gold. It's only once you have a Capital and two Crypts that things begin to tick over nicely. How long does that take to achieve?

Meanwhile: what about the trashing? How do we get a deck of just 3*Capital, 6*Crypt? If nothing else, we're likely to have one trasher in the deck as well. And the trashing probably won't be instantaneous. Gold will work a lot better in a deck that's only partially thinned, won't it?
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1126 on: November 29, 2017, 10:37:19 pm »
0

And does Bureaucrat gain the Changeling to the top of your deck?

I think no, because Blue Dog.
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JThorne

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1127 on: November 30, 2017, 11:46:48 am »
0

Seems to me the Capital+Crypt deck, in reality, will be a little messier to set up than I described. I was just reducing it to the bare minimum apples-with-apples comparison to highlight the pretty substantial deck-thinning effect of leaving so many cards on the table between turns.

The reality is that you'll probably have one or two Silvers or $2 action or whatever for early economy as you're trashing. Even if you buy Capital first, a single Capital/Silver/Silver turn buys two Crypts and then you're in business, paying off the debt quickly and buying engine parts two at a time. If you buy Crypt/Capital first, a Capital/Silver/Silver/Crypt lets you get another Crypt/Capital with no debt, and every pair you buy adds two cards that won't increase your deck size because they're staying on the table every turn, eliminating the need to buy more draw along with it. By comparison, every time you buy Gold, you have to buy more actions/draw to get it in hand, slowing down the Gold version by comparison.
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teamlyle

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1128 on: November 30, 2017, 01:14:58 pm »
0

Herald + Ruins: Get the Ruins off the top of your deck, and your Heralds become Villages, Labs, Peddlers, or Market Squares.
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faust

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1129 on: November 30, 2017, 02:04:20 pm »
+9

Monastery/Banquet

Play 3 Coppers, buy Banquet. Gain a $5 and trash two extra Coppers for a net +/-0.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1130 on: December 01, 2017, 02:33:19 am »
0

Hireling/Changeling

This is a rhyming duo. Changeling can always turn into a Hireling that you have already played. If you have a Silver gainer or Magpie or something to gain more Changelings, you can really start exploding.

I can confirm this is fun and effective.
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William Howard Taft

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1131 on: December 01, 2017, 02:36:45 pm »
0

Thief/Heirlooms

Thief is way more fun when you can steal Magic Lamps, Pastures, Goats, etc. Just be careful about trashing your opponent's Haunted Mirror.
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1132 on: December 01, 2017, 03:27:23 pm »
+1

Thief/Heirlooms

Thief is way more fun when you can steal Magic Lamps, Pastures, Goats, etc. Just be careful about trashing your opponent's Haunted Mirror.

Would Heirlooms be any different if Thief (or a Thief-like card) was still a "live" card?

For example, Donald has stated that Cursed Gold is priced as it is to allow it to be trashed by Knights (and presumably others) while other heirlooms were specifically priced to avoid those attacks.

Quote
I think the only change to Pasture was that once it cost $4. Some of the Heirlooms dropped below $3 to dodge War and some Knight-family attacks.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 03:29:12 pm by Cave-o-sapien »
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William Howard Taft

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1133 on: December 01, 2017, 05:32:39 pm »
0

I think it's cool that heirlooms are really hard to steal and impossible to recover once they've been trashed. Cursed Gold is the only one that can return from the grave to bring misfortune to someone new.
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markusin

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1134 on: December 01, 2017, 05:46:48 pm »
+2

I think it's cool that heirlooms are really hard to steal and impossible to recover once they've been trashed. Cursed Gold is the only one that can return from the grave to bring misfortune to someone new.

Lucky Coin also costs $4.
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Awaclus

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1135 on: December 02, 2017, 01:43:43 am »
0

I think it's cool that heirlooms are really hard to steal and impossible to recover once they've been trashed. Cursed Gold is the only one that can return from the grave to bring misfortune to someone new.

Lucky Coin also costs $4.

Yeah, it can also return from the grave to bring misfortune to someone new.
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

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Awaclus

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1136 on: December 02, 2017, 02:26:49 pm »
+7

Den of Sin + Haggler

Example game with 6 Provinces in 11 turns (feat. Goat): 9268484

A tactically bought Den of Sin can help you hit an early $8 with Haggler, and then gaining Den of Sins with Haggler while greening can maintain that momentum for the entire short duration of the game.
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

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markusin

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1137 on: December 02, 2017, 02:32:45 pm »
0

I think it's cool that heirlooms are really hard to steal and impossible to recover once they've been trashed. Cursed Gold is the only one that can return from the grave to bring misfortune to someone new.

Lucky Coin also costs $4.

Yeah, it can also return from the grave to bring misfortune to someone new.

A rogue who is despicable enough to take someone's lucky coin deserves it.
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trivialknot

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1138 on: December 02, 2017, 08:31:58 pm »
+4

In a game today I went for Cobbler so I could gain Cemetery and trash down.  When I did it, I realized... I can trash the Cemetery too!  It should work with other gain-to-hand stuff as well.

In another game, we found a neat Faithful Hound/Raider interaction.  I was playing a Faithful Hound/Storeroom deck, but my opponent countered it by playing multiple Raiders.  He didn't have Faithful Hounds in play so I had to discard Storerooms.
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cascadestyler

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1139 on: December 03, 2017, 08:01:45 am »
0

Masterpiece / Annex

A weak card and a weak event combine for some serious points as long as you have two buys. One point per coin (plus a little bit of debt) is incredible value in a province game, and you never need more than two buys.

would someone explain this to me? 
why are you filling your deck with silver, and what cards are you shuffling into your deck and why?

I absolutely meant Triumph, not Annex. Sorry for the confusion.
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Gazbag

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1140 on: December 03, 2017, 10:57:51 am »
0

Watchtower/Trader + Cursed Gold

Trash those pesky Curses with Watchtower or Trade them for Silvers which can fuel your Pookas!
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Awaclus

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1141 on: December 03, 2017, 11:00:55 am »
+1

Masterpiece / Annex

A weak card and a weak event combine for some serious points as long as you have two buys. One point per coin (plus a little bit of debt) is incredible value in a province game, and you never need more than two buys.

would someone explain this to me? 
why are you filling your deck with silver, and what cards are you shuffling into your deck and why?

I absolutely meant Triumph, not Annex. Sorry for the confusion.

Triumph is not a weak event though, it's one of the strongest card-shaped things in the game.
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

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markusin

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1142 on: December 03, 2017, 11:20:05 am »
0

Masterpiece / Annex

A weak card and a weak event combine for some serious points as long as you have two buys. One point per coin (plus a little bit of debt) is incredible value in a province game, and you never need more than two buys.

would someone explain this to me? 
why are you filling your deck with silver, and what cards are you shuffling into your deck and why?

I absolutely meant Triumph, not Annex. Sorry for the confusion.

Triumph is not a weak event though, it's one of the strongest card-shaped things in the game.

I also think Triumph is very strong/relevant (and have even seen the aforementioned Masterpiece/Triumph combo), but it's easy to forget about it and sometimes there are no extra gains, making it only marginally useful.

There was a discussion about Triumph and other Empires cards here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17973.0
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faust

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1143 on: December 06, 2017, 03:55:23 am »
+1

Lurker / Rats

Nothing exciting, but it's nice that Lurker can always be a cantrip when you don't have 2 in hand.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

William Howard Taft

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1144 on: December 07, 2017, 03:38:50 pm »
+4

Counterfeit + Idol

Play Idol #1 - Accept a Boon
Play Counterfeit
Play Idol #2 twice and trash it - Everyone takes 2 Curses
Play Idol #3 - Everyone takes another Curse
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William Howard Taft

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1145 on: December 07, 2017, 03:41:19 pm »
+6

Another fun Nocturne/Dark Ages combo: Knights + Necromancer

Undead Knights are relentless. They can't be killed and have no allegiance to anyone.
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wachsmuth

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1146 on: December 08, 2017, 03:50:16 am »
+4

Fool + Band of Misfits/Overlord

Not a spectacular combo, but Fool is often a card you don't particularly want to buy or have in your deck - after all once you have Lost in the Woods, it does nothing. Using Band of Misfits or Overlord to play it, you'll never draw a Fool dead.
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William Howard Taft

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1147 on: December 09, 2017, 12:49:45 am »
0

Changeling + Potion Cards is madness. You can trash your potion nice and early and keep gaining Familiars, Alchemists, Possessions, etc.
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Gazbag

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1148 on: December 09, 2017, 01:06:20 pm »
+2

Kinda obvious but Patrol is really nice in Shepherd games - the Pasture makes Patrol's scout part a bit better and Shepherd discards victories so your Patrols can suck them back up.
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ackmondual

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1149 on: December 10, 2017, 07:17:00 pm »
0

Kinda obvious but Patrol is really nice in Shepherd games - the Pasture makes Patrol's scout part a bit better and Shepherd discards victories so your Patrols can suck them back up.
Almost enough to bring back Scout ;)
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Village, +2 Actions.  Village, +3 Actions.  Village, +4 Actions.  Village, +5 Actions.  Village, +6 Actions.  Village, +7 Actions.  Workers Village, +2 Buys, +8 Actions.  End Action Phase.  No Treasures to play.  No buy
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