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Author Topic: Neat and potentially useful card interactions  (Read 504393 times)

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Asper

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1100 on: November 24, 2017, 09:02:24 pm »
0

Skulk - Scavenger is really nice.
Buy Skulk, Get Skulk and Gold, trash either without too much regret.
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dz

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1101 on: November 25, 2017, 04:48:46 am »
+2

Play Rats, gain Rats, exchange it for a Changeling.
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cascadestyler

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1102 on: November 25, 2017, 05:28:21 am »
0

Masterpiece / Triumph

A weak card and a weak event combine for some serious points as long as you have two buys. One point per coin (plus a little bit of debt) is incredible value in a province game, and you never need more than two buys.
EDITED: I originally said Annex instead of Triumph by accident. Also apparently Triumph is generally not considered weak. I haven't played with it all that much and it seemed weak in the games in which I saw it, but of course it will always depend on the board.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 08:00:22 am by cascadestyler »
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Águia Branca

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1103 on: November 25, 2017, 07:31:42 am »
+1

Masterpiece / Annex

A weak card and a weak event combine for some serious points as long as you have two buys. One point per coin (plus a little bit of debt) is incredible value in a province game, and you never need more than two buys.
Triumph, that is. Doing stuff is just not what Annex does.
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Chris is me

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1104 on: November 25, 2017, 08:07:32 am »
+4

Masterpiece / Annex

A weak card and a weak event combine for some serious points as long as you have two buys. One point per coin (plus a little bit of debt) is incredible value in a province game, and you never need more than two buys.
Triumph, that is. Doing stuff is just not what Annex does.

Triumph is also one of the strongest Events, rather than a weak event.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1105 on: November 25, 2017, 11:34:44 am »
0

Masterpiece/Tower is also quite good, since it can go after Provinces after emptying Silvers.
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ipofanes

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1106 on: November 27, 2017, 05:17:29 am »
+3

Play Rats, gain Rats, exchange it for a Changeling.

Did that with Magpie but without much success, mostly due to the fact that it was my first Changeling match.

Pity Changeling does not work with Duchess, but probably better for the toddler she's presenting.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1107 on: November 27, 2017, 10:22:55 am »
+5

Mint - Changeling

Because sometimes you don't actually want the Mint
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Accatitippi

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1108 on: November 27, 2017, 05:41:04 pm »
0

Mint - Changeling

Because sometimes you don't actually want the Mint

And a lot of the time a Changeling is a better Mint anyway. How often do you need a third Gold?  ;)
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William Howard Taft

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1109 on: November 28, 2017, 03:23:15 am »
+1

Bureaucrat can really screw over Shepard sometimes. Also it's fun getting Changelings instead of a Silver.
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ipofanes

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1110 on: November 28, 2017, 03:40:55 am »
0

Bureaucrat can really screw over Shepard sometimes. Also it's fun getting Changelings instead of a Silver.
I'd still buy Militia over Bureaucrat with Shepard in play. Shepard + 2 Victory cards can turn the Militia attack into a Minion's clout, which isn't necessarily gentler. Not sure about Changeling, it's effect seems a bit weaker than Smugglers, but on boards with Shepard and Changeling I would try Bureaucrat over Militia.
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Cuzz

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1111 on: November 28, 2017, 08:47:48 am »
+1

Mint - Changeling

Because sometimes you don't actually want the Mint

Now I really wish there were a way to increase costs of cards so that Stonemason - Changeling could be a thing. Works with Trader, though.
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Seprix

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1112 on: November 28, 2017, 09:15:31 am »
+7

Conclave/Distant Lands: You can play Conclave before a Distant Lands infinitely.

Arena/Faithful Hound: Get a free Hound discard every turn, even when the points run dry.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 09:19:20 am by Seprix »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1113 on: November 28, 2017, 02:59:16 pm »
+1

Masterpiece / Annex

A weak card and a weak event combine for some serious points as long as you have two buys. One point per coin (plus a little bit of debt) is incredible value in a province game, and you never need more than two buys.

would someone explain this to me? 
why are you filling your deck with silver, and what cards are you shuffling into your deck and why?
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JW

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1114 on: November 28, 2017, 03:01:20 pm »
+1

Masterpiece / Annex

A weak card and a weak event combine for some serious points as long as you have two buys. One point per coin (plus a little bit of debt) is incredible value in a province game, and you never need more than two buys.

would someone explain this to me? 
why are you filling your deck with silver, and what cards are you shuffling into your deck and why?

It's a typo: Annex was supposed to say Triumph.
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Dingan

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1115 on: November 28, 2017, 10:08:57 pm »
0

Capital / Crypt
I'm not sure how realistic it is but imagine a deck that has x Capitals and 2x Crypts, where each turn you use x of the Crypts to each set aside 1 of the Capitals .. something like that. Would be neat. Doubt it has Mandarin/Capitol potential, but maybe could be good?
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faust

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1116 on: November 29, 2017, 06:03:51 am »
0

Governor / Changeling

Gain Changelings which become more Governors from Governor's Gold/Silver. Trash Estates into $3s which become Changelings which become more Governors. Turn your opponent's given Silver into Changelings which become Golds which become Provinces.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1117 on: November 29, 2017, 09:51:41 am »
0

Capital / Crypt
I'm not sure how realistic it is but imagine a deck that has x Capitals and 2x Crypts, where each turn you use x of the Crypts to each set aside 1 of the Capitals .. something like that. Would be neat. Doubt it has Mandarin/Capitol potential, but maybe could be good?

It's very good. I remember qvist doing this the day Crypt came out.

faust

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1118 on: November 29, 2017, 09:58:15 am »
+1

Governor / Changeling

Gain Changelings which become more Governors from Governor's Gold/Silver. Trash Estates into $3s which become Changelings which become more Governors. Turn your opponent's given Silver into Changelings which become Golds which become Provinces.
Speaking of Changeling interactions, Changeling / Masterpiece is probably the most potent one.
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Chappy7

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1119 on: November 29, 2017, 02:53:02 pm »
0

Changeling is nice with jester.  Sometimes your jester hits a very meh card, and you don't really want it.  Changeling helps a lot
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crj

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1120 on: November 29, 2017, 03:31:08 pm »
0

Capital / Crypt
I'm not sure how realistic it is but imagine a deck that has x Capitals and 2x Crypts, where each turn you use x of the Crypts to each set aside 1 of the Capitals .. something like that. Would be neat. Doubt it has Mandarin/Capitol potential, but maybe could be good?
Hmm. I can envisage peculiar kingdoms in which it made sense, but most of the time wouldn't it be simpler to buy 2*Gold than Capital+2*Crypt?

[Edit: I typoed as "1*Crypt"]
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 07:57:29 pm by crj »
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JThorne

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1121 on: November 29, 2017, 03:37:28 pm »
+1

Just had Changeling/Conquest in a game. Points and two more future Stables, please!

Ok, wait, let's just short-circuit this altogether.

Changeling / http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Gainer#Silver_gainers

Just go down the list and imagine how it works with Changeling. Usually pretty darn well. Ok, maybe not with Raid so much. And does Bureaucrat gain the Changeling to the top of your deck?
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JThorne

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1122 on: November 29, 2017, 03:55:57 pm »
+1

Quote
wouldn't it be simpler to buy 2*Gold than Capital+1*Crypt?

I had that exact same thought. Actually, it's Capital + 2*Crypt, because you need two crypts for each Capital if you're setting it aside every turn and drawing deck.

Wait, let's do the math.

6 Golds makes $18 for a double-Province and change. So you technically only need one additional card worth of draw (and a +buy. So one Margrave overdraws your deck by one card.)

3 Capitals makes $18 and gives you the buy. It would take 6 Crypts to set them aside. However, every turn STARTS with six cards on the table (three Capitals and three Crypts) and only 3 cards in the rest of your deck! Turn is play $18, buy Provinces, play three Crypts, set aside three Capitals, clean up the 3 Crypts from the previous turn.

It needs NO draw, and can even work with 100% reliability after the first double Province buy! The degree to which leaving cards on the table between turns helps a deck-drawing engine keeps surprising me, even though it shouldn't. Nod to Gear and Archive.

So the math says: 9 cards at $5 each is 45, 6 cards at $6 each is 36, plus Margrave or equivalent puts you at a similar cost, but with less reliability. The math looks good on this one. With decent draw it could be huge, though the Crypt split seems pretty important.

Now, the math on keeping Cursed Gold around just because you can reliably trash the curse every turn in your deck drawing engine, on the other hand... (yes, I saw someone do this. I pointed out that between the Cursed Gold, the Curse, and the trasher, they were using three cards to generate $3. That's Copper the hard way.)
 
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crj

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1123 on: November 29, 2017, 08:10:37 pm »
0

Actually, it's Capital + 2*Crypt

Agreed; I typoed. (That's why the otherwise-spurious 1* ended up there!)

As for the rest of your analysis... very interesting. Though I'm still skeptical: simply comparing 9 $5 buys with 6 $6 buys and a $5 ignores the question of how easily you can achieve those buys with half the double-Province engine.

With Gold, the answer is obvious: you have to push a little to get the first, but then Gold begets gold. A single Capital with no Crypts lets you spike your spend, but provides you with no net economy; a single Capital with one Crypt seems to compare quite poorly with one Gold. It's only once you have a Capital and two Crypts that things begin to tick over nicely. How long does that take to achieve?

Meanwhile: what about the trashing? How do we get a deck of just 3*Capital, 6*Crypt? If nothing else, we're likely to have one trasher in the deck as well. And the trashing probably won't be instantaneous. Gold will work a lot better in a deck that's only partially thinned, won't it?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1124 on: November 29, 2017, 10:37:19 pm »
0

And does Bureaucrat gain the Changeling to the top of your deck?

I think no, because Blue Dog.
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