Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[LaLight]

Chapel is arguably better than Scheme.

True!

[weesh]

So what's the best bane?

Define "best"
is it:
"synergizes with your own witches"
"discourages people from buying young witch"
"given that your opponent is likely to buy young witch, this offers you the best defense"
"has the perfect balance of power that it causes you to need some, but feel a bit disappointed at the opportunity cost"
"has a great feel of play and counterplay"

Personally, I like Guide and Ratcatcher a ton as banes for the bolded reason.  There is tension in wanting to save them for the ideal situation versus wanting to get them back in your deck.  Also, the fact that they are reserves means you generally need to play more of them to be effective. 

[Awaclus]

Given that Young Witch is in the kingdom and the card itself is the bane, what's the most powerful card? That's how I've always understood the question.

[crj]

So what's the best bane?

Define "best"

Uh... hmm...

"Synergises best as Bane from the perspective of someone buying it", maybe? I'm definitely not asking what the best $3-or-lower card is; it's got to be something that particularly benefits from its interaction with Young Witch, as the person with Young Witch and/or as the person attacked.

[crj]

Incidentally, if a Dominion Set, promo, reprint of Cornucopia, etc. ever has a card to spare and an artist with time on their hands, it would be nice to have a "Bane" card you can tuck under the supply pile.

[Donald X.]

Incidentally, if a Dominion Set, promo, reprint of Cornucopia, etc. ever has a card to spare and an artist with time on their hands, it would be nice to have a "Bane" card you can tuck under the supply pile.

Work is underway on the eventual prettier reprint of Guilds/Cornucopia, and we are planning on including a Bane card.

[Titandrake]

Baths + Debt

It's more okay to buy high-Debt cards early if Baths is in the game, because you can get 2 VP on the turn you're paying off the debt. I recently lost a game because I bid too low on Mountain Pass, thinking that it was worth 8 VP. With Baths in the game, it was actually worth 10 VP.

[LastFootnote]

Baths + Debt

It's more okay to buy high-Debt cards early if Baths is in the game, because you can get 2 VP on the turn you're paying off the debt. I recently lost a game because I bid too low on Mountain Pass, thinking that it was worth 8 VP. With Baths in the game, it was actually worth 10 VP.

Now the real question is, if Empires hadn't had the debt mechanic, would Baths have survived playtesting? Or would it just be too niche?

[Donald X.]

Baths + Debt

It's more okay to buy high-Debt cards early if Baths is in the game, because you can get 2 VP on the turn you're paying off the debt. I recently lost a game because I bid too low on Mountain Pass, thinking that it was worth 8 VP. With Baths in the game, it was actually worth 10 VP.

Now the real question is, if Empires hadn't had the debt mechanic, would Baths have survived playtesting? Or would it just be too niche?

The obvious thing is, we could have tried changing "gained" to "bought."

[Awaclus]

Rats can function as a way to discard junk from your hand for Lookout, Sentry or other purposes.

[Commodore Chuckles]

Rats can function as a way to discard junk from your hand for Lookout, Sentry or other purposes.

Especially nice with Doctor, since you know what the junk is going to be.

[KingPeter]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but gaining Sir Martin with Messenger is nice.

[Commodore Chuckles]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but gaining Sir Martin with Messenger is nice.

I think somebody mentioned Messenger with Castles. Different pile, same idea.

[teamlyle]

Marauder / Cultist + Wolf Den: since there are 5 unique Ruins you can reduce your opponent's score considerably if you're lucky.

[Dingan]

Stonemason / Sacrifice. Just load up on both. Especially in the lack of other villages.

[Titandrake]

Stonemason / Sacrifice. Just load up on both. Especially in the lack of other villages.

How does that work? By itself it doesn't seem that great, without other +Actions I can see it being important.

[Awaclus]

Stonemason / Sacrifice. Just load up on both. Especially in the lack of other villages.

How does that work? By itself it doesn't seem that great, without other +Actions I can see it being important.

You gain a ton of cards at a cheap cost and then you get rid of the Stonemasons while getting something very useful out of it.

[Petrovic]

I looked for this being mentioned in this thread. Hasn't been mentioned here, although probably has been mentioned elsewhere. Maybe even in an article somewhere...

In games where there is no other trashing:
Watchtower and Rats
Don't use very many Rats when you do not have a Watchtower in hand. If you do have a Watchtower in hand, Rats become a Lab that trashes a card (but they can't trash the second card drawn.)
In the game I found this, Witch and Training were also available. I took several curses from my opponent, but then my Trained Witches drew cards to fill my hand, the Rats trashed the curses and other shrapnel while acting as Labs themselves and I was able to win fairly easily.

[crj]

Gosh. I'd have expected the Rats to run out fairly quickly with that strategy, even with twenty rather than ten. And then the Watchtower trick would stop being useful. )-8

[AJD]

Highway is a great counter to Enchantress.

[Cave-o-sapien]

Highway is a great counter to Enchantress.

Nice.

Related question: does Enchantress effectively turn Bridge Troll into a Highway?

[sorawotobu]

Highway is a great counter to Enchantress.

Nice.

Related question: does Enchantress effectively turn Bridge Troll into a Highway?

Yes.

[Commodore Chuckles]

Highway is a great counter to Enchantress.

And so is Groundskeeper.

If you do have a Watchtower in hand, Rats become a Lab that trashes a card (but they can't trash the second card drawn.)

It can trash the second card, actually. The Rats-gaining happens before the trashing. So yeah, it's exactly the same as a trashing Lab. Also, in regards to whether this combo was mentioned before, I think pretty much every single Watchtower combo ever is mentioned in liopoil's excellent article, including this one.

[aku_chi]

Sentry + Vassal

HappyFish recently beat me with this strong Base 2nd Edition synergy.  Even in the absence of a village, Sentry can help set up safe Vassal plays while thinning your deck of junk cards.  This synergy is pretty strong without support.  Open Vassal + Silver and get Sentries as quickly as possible (at least 3).  Use Sentries to trash your starting cards, but also use them to line up Vassal into another Sentry, so you can keep playing non-terminal Vassals.  Once you have 3+ Sentries and 4 Vassals (or 3 Vassals and a Silver), you can start greening.  If you dud, pick up an additional Sentry.  This strategy is pretty fast, greening beginning around turn 9 and getting 6 Provinces in 14-15 turns.  This strategy scales up to Colony and Dominate pretty handily, though the Sentry and Vassal piles might be contested in those cases.  There are a bunch of cards that can improve the strategy; most $2-4 cantrips will be better than Silver, though non-terminal +buy is the best.  This strategy is also very resistant to handsize and junking attacks.  HappyFish was able to shrug off my Mountebank attack by investing in a couple extra Sentries.  Being forced to discard out of hand can even help trash starting cards or balance out your Vassals and Sentries.  Trashing attacks (especially Swindler and Knights) can wreck the strategy, though.

[hypercube]

Salvager + Dominate

Dominate can be difficult to achieve if there isn't a decent engine available, but salvaging Provinces to Dominate is possible even in a money deck, in which case keeping the VP virtual is even more valuable. With the addition of some stronger trashing a golden deck that earns 9 VP/turn should be fairly easy to set up.