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Author Topic: Neat and potentially useful card interactions  (Read 504416 times)

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vsiewnar

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #700 on: August 16, 2016, 09:51:47 pm »
+1

The trashing token prevents Teacher from placing one of its tokens on that pile (just had that happen to me).
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traces Around

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #701 on: August 17, 2016, 05:03:40 pm »
+1

Ironworks/Distant Lands/Ferry

Rush strategy. Open Ironworks/Ferry on Distant Lands. I think you can see where to go from there.

My hack-job simulator bot gets to 3 Ironworks before it starts to Ironworks Distant Lands. Buys Ironworks on 4, Distant Lands on 3, Estate on 2, nothing on less. Empties Ironworks, Distant Lands, and Estate to end game while not paying any attention to whether or not Distant Lands are getting played. I only optimized the number of Ironworks in deck before gaining Distant Lands with them; this is very likely not the best way to play this strategy.
This bot beats the built in Rebuild bot which ignores Distant Lands 50% of the time (with some ties - so is better but unrealistic), the rush Ironworks/Gardens bot 67% of the time, and the slog Ironworks/Garden bot 49% of the time (with some ties - about even).

Some credit to Horist for getting me thinking about this with a message in Discord.

mameluke

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #702 on: August 21, 2016, 12:27:04 pm »
+2

Possess your opponent who has Champion in play, then buy Bonfire, trashing the Champion (it's set-aside, and the opponent now has to wait another shuffle to get it back into play).
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Asper

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #703 on: August 21, 2016, 12:42:22 pm »
+3

Possess your opponent who has Champion in play, then buy Bonfire, trashing the Champion (it's set-aside, and the opponent now has to wait another shuffle to get it back into play).

Champion is not tied to being in play and discarding it does nothing (besides adding the Champion back to their deck, so it will be drawn instead of a more useful card, once).
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mameluke

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #704 on: August 21, 2016, 12:44:44 pm »
0

Drat. I was thinking about that for Hireling but forgot Champion doesn't have the "while this is in play clause". Will this work with anything else? Prince maybe?
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mameluke

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #705 on: August 21, 2016, 12:46:08 pm »
0

That is, a Princed action, since Prince never is in play after the turn you play it.
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Chris is me

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #706 on: August 21, 2016, 12:55:28 pm »
0

It would prevent the card being set aside by Prince, and thus stop it from working, yeah. The only other "while this is in play" Duration type card I can think of is Bridge Troll.
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mameluke

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #707 on: August 21, 2016, 12:59:55 pm »
0

Bridge Troll wouldn't be useful because it would be discarded at the end of the Possessed turn anyways, unless you played it yourself in that turn. Discarding Archivist might be interesting since it works for up to 3 turns.
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Chris is me

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #708 on: August 21, 2016, 01:04:47 pm »
0

Bridge Troll wouldn't be useful because it would be discarded at the end of the Possessed turn anyways, unless you played it yourself in that turn. Discarding Archivist might be interesting since it works for up to 3 turns.

Archive's effect isn't "while this is in play" either, though. It'll keep working.

Bridge Troll would only be if you played it during their Possession turn, but maybe that'll happen sometime.
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mameluke

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #709 on: August 21, 2016, 01:08:13 pm »
+1

Hmmph. Okay, same goes for Lighthouse attack protection if you play it while Possessing, but they'll still get the +$1 next turn
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amoffett11

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #710 on: August 22, 2016, 09:59:21 am »
+6

Royal Carriage and Golem. 

Recently played a game with these two cards:  if your Golem hits a Royal Carriage, you can use that Royal Carriage you just played to play the Golem again (and if you hit more Royal Carriages, again and again).  The Royal Carriage also gives you +1 action, so if your Golem hits only terminals, you'll still have an action left to play another Golem, or just another terminal you've drawn.  You can also use the Royal Carriage not just on the Golem, but on one of the actions the Golem triggers, if you prefer.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #711 on: August 22, 2016, 02:53:19 pm »
0

The royal carriage doesn't give an action when you call it.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #712 on: August 22, 2016, 02:55:11 pm »
+2

More a question than an observation: Is Tactician / Mission a thing?  Play your Treasures on your normal turn, play Tactician on your Mission turn.  I've never actually seen it done, but seems like it could theoretically work out.
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Seprix

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #713 on: August 22, 2016, 03:02:22 pm »
+5

More a question than an observation: Is Tactician / Mission a thing?  Play your Treasures on your normal turn, play Tactician on your Mission turn.  I've never actually seen it done, but seems like it could theoretically work out.

If you can set aside a Tactician with Gear or a Courtyard somehow, it could work.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #714 on: August 22, 2016, 03:42:50 pm »
+4

The royal carriage doesn't give an action when you call it.

It gives an action when it is played by Golem, and after both terminals resolve, you can call it on Golem itself for another try at fishing for +Action.
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Deadlock39

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #715 on: August 22, 2016, 04:29:32 pm »
0

More a question than an observation: Is Tactician / Mission a thing?  Play your Treasures on your normal turn, play Tactician on your Mission turn.  I've never actually seen it done, but seems like it could theoretically work out.

If you can set aside a Tactician with Gear or a Courtyard somehow, it could work.

This is the important part.  If you can find your Tactician reliably on your Mission Turn without seeding it into your hand, then you probably don't need it that much.  If it is the only +Buy, it could still be worth doing though.

faust

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #716 on: August 22, 2016, 04:33:44 pm »
+3

More a question than an observation: Is Tactician / Mission a thing?  Play your Treasures on your normal turn, play Tactician on your Mission turn.  I've never actually seen it done, but seems like it could theoretically work out.

If you can set aside a Tactician with Gear or a Courtyard somehow, it could work.

This is the important part.  If you can find your Tactician reliably on your Mission Turn without seeding it into your hand, then you probably don't need it that much.  If it is the only +Buy, it could still be worth doing though.
Doing this spends a buy on Mission to get a buy from Tactician, so it doesn't actually increase your number of buys.
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Deadlock39

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #717 on: August 22, 2016, 04:45:01 pm »
0

More a question than an observation: Is Tactician / Mission a thing?  Play your Treasures on your normal turn, play Tactician on your Mission turn.  I've never actually seen it done, but seems like it could theoretically work out.

If you can set aside a Tactician with Gear or a Courtyard somehow, it could work.

This is the important part.  If you can find your Tactician reliably on your Mission Turn without seeding it into your hand, then you probably don't need it that much.  If it is the only +Buy, it could still be worth doing though.
Doing this spends a buy on Mission to get a buy from Tactician, so it doesn't actually increase your number of buys.

Yeah, so ignore that thing I suggested...

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #718 on: August 25, 2016, 11:44:29 am »
+3

Forge and Expedition

Expedition can help you to hit the tough $7 price point of Forge early on. It's also a cheap way to increase your handsize so your Forge can be more useful. Being able to quickly get rid of your Coppers and turn your starting Estates (and any Silvers you might have picked up) into power $5/$6 cards around turns 5-7 is huge. This interaction is strong enough that you should definitely keep an eye out for it.

NolanA

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #719 on: August 26, 2016, 02:20:43 pm »
0

One interaction I find particularly neat is fast trashing, followed by Treasure Map and Adventurer since it lets  some not so great cards have their moment to shine.   When the deck is slim, it's easy to hit Treasure Map.  Adventurer becomes useful when the only treasures in your deck are the Treasure Map's 4 Golds.  This only works in certain kingdoms, but in the right kingdom it can be fun to play.  An example game in the kingdom below is at http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160826/log.0.1472234968180.txt (against computer).



Code: [Select]
Chapel, Fishing Village, Caravan, Cutpurse, Throne Room, Treasure Map, Market, Outpost, Witch, Adventurer
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 03:29:30 pm by NolanA »
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Jacob marley

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #720 on: August 26, 2016, 03:32:40 pm »
0

I really don't see TM or Adventurer here.  It must be noted that you played Lord Bottington, so naturally your strategy dominated his, but I think that after trashing you can build around FV, witch for draw, TR, Market and maybe 2 gold.  You should be able to draw your deck reliably, so no need for Adventurer, and instead of buying to TR and waiting for a reshuffle to get the TR's played, you can just get a couple of gold directly.  I haven't played it out, but I think it is faster.
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xyz123

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #721 on: August 26, 2016, 05:14:26 pm »
0

Nobles/Royal Carriage

Royal Carriage can smooth out annoying hands where Nobles is your only action. Play Nobles for actions, call RC and play Nobles for draw.
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traces Around

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #722 on: August 26, 2016, 05:27:11 pm »
+5

Nobles/Royal Carriage

Royal Carriage can smooth out annoying hands where Nobles is your only action. Play Nobles for actions, call RC and play Nobles for draw.

Better yet, play it for draw first, see if you need the actions, and then call the RC for actions (or more draw).

NolanA

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #723 on: August 26, 2016, 06:51:58 pm »
0

I really don't see TM or Adventurer here.  It must be noted that you played Lord Bottington, so naturally your strategy dominated his, but I think that after trashing you can build around FV, witch for draw, TR, Market and maybe 2 gold.  You should be able to draw your deck reliably, so no need for Adventurer, and instead of buying to TR and waiting for a reshuffle to get the TR's played, you can just get a couple of gold directly.  I haven't played it out, but I think it is faster.

Those are some good points.  Witch + Chapel + Fishing Village is one of the most powerful 3-card combinations possible in the Seaside expansion.  If one player is not doing the combo as effectively as the other, he is likely to lose.  This relates to the game result more than anything else about about what cards enhance this Witch + Chapel + Fishing Village combo.    That said, on turn 11, I had the following in my deck -- 3 witches, 3 fishing village, 1 market, 1 chapel, and 1 silver.  It took 9 additional turns to gain 7 provinces by going for Treasure Map + Adventurer, which certainly isn't bad, although there aren't many games where you need to be effective at getting 7 provinces.  If your engine slows by the time you have fewer provinces, you'll still likely win.  I ran some simulations to test out this case using Geronimoo's sim and got the following results:

Witch + Chapel + Fishing Village with Treaure Map vs Witch + Fishing Village + Chapel without Treasure Map --  With Treasure Map wins 55% to 41%

The simulated Treasure Map strategy was buy 2 Witches (before gold), then start buying Treasure Maps, regardless of whether the deck is trim or not.  Win rate can be improved further by adding a condition about not switching to a Treasure Map strategy when some combination of garbage remains in the deck. Playing around with some variables, that threshold seems to only going for Treasure Map when almost no garbage remains in the deck   If significant garbage remains, then it's better to buy golds and pursue a different strategy.   Adventurer had little effect on the overall win rate because the sim usually didn't buy it.   Without multiple buys, the sim would keep hitting 8+ and buy a province with nothing to do with the left over $, until provinces were low enough to buy dutchies.  This sim didn't consider Market and Throne Room, which will certainly have an influence and could shift the win rate away from Treasure Map or could allow the sim to buy Adventurer with the multiple buy, leading to more noteworthy effects.   Regardless of whether including Treasure Map is the optimal strategy in this kingdom, it does fairly well.  There are also other kingdoms where this type of strategy is more useful.   

I realize there are other far more powerful and far more useful card interactions.  I chose to list this one because I like how it finds a use for some lesser played cards, and I expect is uncommon to play.  I find this kind of unique, lesser played card strategy "neat", and it makes the game more enjoyable to me.  I'd expect the most useful Treasure Map enablers from this expansion are Warehouse, Haven, and Tactition; rather than Chapel.  However, they don't lend themselves to Adventurer.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 08:52:41 pm by NolanA »
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McGarnacle

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #724 on: September 01, 2016, 12:58:46 pm »
0

I wanted to make a Dominion calendar for my Dad (who is also a Dominion fan) where for each day of the year there is one combo/Interaction. I will take some from here (of course crediting the author of said interaction), but I was wondering how to organize it, any ideas?
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