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Author Topic: Neat and potentially useful card interactions  (Read 504236 times)

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Limetime

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #300 on: November 05, 2015, 06:10:36 pm »
+7

Alms + artificer = discard hand for card on deck and cost.
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thespaceinvader

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #301 on: November 06, 2015, 04:35:59 am »
0

Counterfeit+Ill-Gotten Gains

You can produce a Copper with IGG, then Counterfeit it away.

This seems cool, but I have to wonder when in an IGG game are you going to be buying that Counterfeit instead of another IGG?
Also, in an IGG game you probably don't want to trash the copper anyway, since you're probably rushing IGG/Duchy or some other alt-VP, so you only need your deck to average £1 per card and it's likely to be picking up lots of curses...
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #302 on: November 06, 2015, 04:45:01 am »
+7

Counterfeit+Ill-Gotten Gains

You can produce a Copper with IGG, then Counterfeit it away.

That's a neat interaction, but there's an even neater interaction between Counterfeit and IGG. You can Counterfeit the IGG away.
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gamesou

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #303 on: November 06, 2015, 05:32:35 am »
+11

Mint/Quest : open Mint/Curse on 5/2.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #304 on: November 06, 2015, 06:15:29 am »
0

Mint/Quest : open Mint/Curse on 5/2.
Nice.

Moat, Haven, Save, Crossroads, or Courtyard could be even better than curse though.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #305 on: November 06, 2015, 08:12:47 am »
+4

I'm very sure this isn't the first time anyone's noticed this, but Herald is a phenomenal Ghost Ship counter.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #306 on: November 06, 2015, 08:19:28 am »
+7

Ferry + Stonemason

Maximize the overbuy effect of Stonemason by making it cost 0!  Now you can get a Stonemason and two 4-cost actions for 4 coins, or a Stonemason and two 5-cost actions for 5 coins!  Why reduce the cost of one action when you can reduce the cost of ALL actions?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #307 on: November 06, 2015, 08:47:19 am »
0

Ferry + Stonemason

Maximize the overbuy effect of Stonemason by making it cost 0!  Now you can get a Stonemason and two 4-cost actions for 4 coins, or a Stonemason and two 5-cost actions for 5 coins!  Why reduce the cost of one action when you can reduce the cost of ALL actions?

Edge case: You want to overpay for additional Stonemasons.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #308 on: November 06, 2015, 08:56:26 am »
+1

Counterfeit+Ill-Gotten Gains

You can produce a Copper with IGG, then Counterfeit it away.

That's a neat interaction, but there's an even neater interaction between Counterfeit and IGG. You can Counterfeit the IGG away.

Salvager/IGG works better.  Or Bishop/IGG.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #309 on: November 06, 2015, 08:58:50 am »
0

Alms + Mint/Mandarin:  Mint and Mandarin remove your Treasures from play, so if you have a spare buy, you can use Alms to pick up a $4 card for free.

Alms + Woodcutter variant (or any virtual money with +buy):  Play Woodcutter, buy a $2 card, get a $4 card from Alms.  Not super-powerful (a gainer would often be faster if there is one), but if there are good cards at $2 and $4, it can help you build your engine faster than those who are trying to buy their components with Treasure.

Alms/Mint opening sounds brutal, especially for the opponent.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #310 on: November 06, 2015, 10:55:48 am »
0

Lost Arts + Gear - Sure this general concept works with any draw card, but a $3 Laboratory that sets aside Victory cards (to avoid dead draws) or even other Gear (for insurance) is extremely potent.

Gear is probably my favorite card in Dominion at the moment.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #311 on: November 06, 2015, 02:32:58 pm »
+12

Alms + Mint/Mandarin:  Mint and Mandarin remove your Treasures from play, so if you have a spare buy, you can use Alms to pick up a $4 card for free.

Alms + Woodcutter variant (or any virtual money with +buy):  Play Woodcutter, buy a $2 card, get a $4 card from Alms.  Not super-powerful (a gainer would often be faster if there is one), but if there are good cards at $2 and $4, it can help you build your engine faster than those who are trying to buy their components with Treasure.

Alms/Mint opening sounds brutal, especially for the opponent.
i think mint/remake is the best opening in the game:
your dumb opponent opened mountebank/chapel (what is this, 2013?) and you opened mint/remake; turn three you remake the mint in to a bv/mountebank and an estate into a menage and then alms a worker's village and he chapel-trashes fewer coppers than you did when you were like two turns old; your parents always knew you were ahead of the pack. turn four you menage right off the bat, keeping in mind your deck has like 6 differently named cards out of 8 and then not only mountebank but also remake your border village into a king's court and maybe an estate into anoth-gerie. you're set up to king's court a mountebank on turn 5, like, half the time.

turn 6 is necessarily spent putting out the resulting electrical fire
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #312 on: November 08, 2015, 03:53:59 am »
+1

Bureaucrat/Jester: Requires no/poor trashing.  I bought plenty of wandering minstrels and warehouses in a game to pull this off.  The only trasher was trade route.
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liopoil

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #313 on: November 19, 2015, 05:05:17 pm »
+5

Diadem/Black Market: Now you can get coins for your actions and use them too! (Surprised I haven't seen this posted anywhere before).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #314 on: November 20, 2015, 12:34:42 pm »
0

Watchtower/Death Cart/Summon

I realize this is a bit of a stretch, but hear me out: Summon a Death Cart, Watchtower 1 or both of the Ruins to the top of your deck (trash one if you like), allowing Summon to set aside DC.  Then on your next turn you get +, you eat that Ruins, and have 4 more cards with which to scrounge up a Province.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #315 on: November 20, 2015, 12:41:02 pm »
0

Watchtower/Death Cart/Summon

I realize this is a bit of a stretch, but hear me out: Summon a Death Cart, Watchtower 1 or both of the Ruins to the top of your deck (trash one if you like), allowing Summon to set aside DC.  Then on your next turn you get +, you eat that Ruins, and have 4 more cards with which to scrounge up a Province.

That might be the best use of summon in a two card, one event kingdom of Watchtower, death cart and summon.

OTOH, in practice it may not be optimal in a random kingdom for another thousand years or so.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #316 on: November 20, 2015, 12:54:46 pm »
0

What are the probabilities that two cards and a particular event show up, given that events are used?
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Ampharos

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #317 on: November 20, 2015, 01:09:39 pm »
+1

Well, given 250 cards (no promos), you get 10/250 for card 1, 9/249 for card 2, and 8/248 for event 1.  720/15438000 = or 1 in every 21441 games.

(It's been a while since stats, I might have done this totally wrong but it sounds right to me).
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Ampharos

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #318 on: November 20, 2015, 01:13:19 pm »
0

With promos

10/257 * 9/256 * 8/255 = 1/23301 games


Edit: for funsies, current probability of any given 10 card set: 1 / 290,114,720,000,000,000
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 01:19:26 pm by Ampharos »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #319 on: November 20, 2015, 01:18:29 pm »
0

Well, given 250 cards (no promos), you get 10/250 for card 1, 9/249 for card 2, and 8/248 for event 1.  720/15438000 = or 1 in every 21441 games.

(It's been a while since stats, I might have done this totally wrong but it sounds right to me).
I think that the event drawing is independent, and if I'm not mistaken the probability of drawing a specific event should always be 10/(#cards+1)=10/251.
So, I'd answer 900/15624750, or one in 17361, save Young Witch and without promos.
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Ampharos

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #320 on: November 20, 2015, 01:20:33 pm »
0

Well, given 250 cards (no promos), you get 10/250 for card 1, 9/249 for card 2, and 8/248 for event 1.  720/15438000 = or 1 in every 21441 games.

(It's been a while since stats, I might have done this totally wrong but it sounds right to me).
I think that the event drawing is independent, and if I'm not mistaken the probability of drawing a specific event should always be 10/(#cards+1)=10/251.
So, I'd answer 900/15624750, or one in 17361, save Young Witch and without promos.

Ah, irl we just assigned them numbers along with the rest of the cards and played them if they were randomed, so my numbers are based on that.  It definitely would change things if events are chosen separately.

And yes, I suppose my numbers ignore young witch and black market as well.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 01:24:03 pm by Ampharos »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #321 on: November 20, 2015, 01:23:55 pm »
+4

I thought that events were officially supposed to be mixed in with all the other randomizers.  If you draw one, you use it and replace it with another kingdom card.
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Ampharos

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #322 on: November 20, 2015, 01:25:50 pm »
0

I was under this impression as well.

The wiki's event preparation notes seem to agree as well:

Preparation

    Event cards can also be shuffled into the randomizer deck.
    Events are not part of the 10 Kingdom cards used in a game; when an Event is turned over, put it on the table but keep turning over cards until you get 10 Kingdom cards.
    For normal play we recommend using at most two Events per game; skip any further Events.
    Skip Events when using a randomizer card to determine whether or not to use PlatinumPlatinum.jpg/ColonyColony.jpg (from Prosperity), or Shelters (from Dark Ages) in a game.
    Events cannot be Young Witch'sYoung Witch.jpg bane (from Cornucopia).



This actually makes it a lot harder to calculate the odds of a specific event occuring, since you'd have to calculate the odds that an event is in the top 10 cards, and also the odds that that event is the one you're looking for. Maybe I'll try to work on this here for a bit.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 01:29:04 pm by Ampharos »
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Accatitippi

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #323 on: November 20, 2015, 01:26:16 pm »
0

Well, given 250 cards (no promos), you get 10/250 for card 1, 9/249 for card 2, and 8/248 for event 1.  720/15438000 = or 1 in every 21441 games.

(It's been a while since stats, I might have done this totally wrong but it sounds right to me).
I think that the event drawing is independent, and if I'm not mistaken the probability of drawing a specific event should always be 10/(#cards+1)=10/251.
So, I'd answer 900/15624750, or one in 17361, save Young Witch and without promos.

Ah, irl we just assigned them numbers along with the rest of the cards and played them if they were randomed, so my numbers are based on that.  It definitely would change things if events are chosen separately.

And yes, I suppose my numbers ignore young witch and black market as well.

I based myself on the wiki:
Quote
     Event cards can also be shuffled into the randomizer deck.
    Events are not part of the 10 Kingdom cards used in a game; when an Event is turned over, put it on the table but keep turning over cards until you get 10 Kingdom cards.
    For normal play we recommend using at most two Events per game; skip any further Events.
    Skip Events when using a randomizer card to determine whether or not to use PlatinumPlatinum.jpg/ColonyColony.jpg (from Prosperity), or Shelters (from Dark Ages) in a game.
    Events cannot be Young Witch'sYoung Witch.jpg bane (from Cornucopia).
But I skipped the recommendation, just as I skipped the recommendation about Potion-cost cards. (ok, ok, I'm lazy).
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 02:22:43 pm by Accatitippi »
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Accatitippi

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #324 on: November 20, 2015, 01:37:18 pm »
0

Let me explain how I think.

Drawing an Event doesn't decrease the number of Kingdom Cards you draw. Having drawn a specific Kingdom card doesn't decrease the probability that you'll draw (or that you have already drawn) a specific Event. In short, they are what I suspect statisticians call indipendent events (lowecase).

How did I come to that number?
(10/totalcards+1) is another product of my spaghetti statistics. In a deck of 250 Kingdom cards, there are 251 slots where events can hide between real cards: 249 recesses between cards, plus the top and the bottom.
You'll visit 10 of these recesses when you're setting up the game, and include all the events you'll find there. The probability that a specific event is in one og those 10 recesses is of course 10/251.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please. :)

Edit: readability, mostly
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 01:44:53 pm by Accatitippi »
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