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Author Topic: Neat and potentially useful card interactions  (Read 120028 times)

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iguanaiguana

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #125 on: April 20, 2015, 12:30:47 pm »
+2

I'm pretty sure that if this thread had a [serious] tag, the OP would have the right to delete your 'woozle wuzzle' remark :P

pubby

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #126 on: April 20, 2015, 12:31:09 pm »
+2

I'd post more combos here but everything I know is either well-known, or very gimmicky.

Here's a gimmicky one: Journeyman + Native village can psuedotrash your provinces.
And two mundane ones: Hoard + Counterfeit. Rebuild + Oasis.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 12:32:10 pm by pubby »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #127 on: April 20, 2015, 12:31:33 pm »
+4

I think you're being a bit too exacting here.  The thread is titled "neat and potentially useful card interactions", which neither suggests that they have to be exactly two specific cards or that they have to form an actual ultimate combo. 

In your OP you mention Doctor/FG which doesn't seem to fit your strict requirements.

Later on you post CR/Pillage.  That requires a village.  Oh no, overly speculative 3-card combo! I guess you could replace CR with Governor draw but now it's not a unique interaction, oops.

If you want to limit it to hyper-specific 2 card combos, this thread is going to see much less activity.  If you didn't want to have theoretical combos (which may involve new Adventures cards), you probably shouldn't have asked for potentially useful interactions.

I get your frustration, but definitely think that you're being a lot grumpier than warranted.

PPE: ninja'd
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eHalcyon

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #128 on: April 20, 2015, 12:36:51 pm »
+1

I'd post more combos here but everything I know is either well-known, or very gimmicky.

Here's a gimmicky one: Journeyman + Native village can psuedotrash your provinces.
And two mundane ones: Hoard + Counterfeit. Rebuild + Oasis.

Journeyman doesn't topdeck, so how does that work?

And I hope you mean to Counterfeit your surplus Gold because Counterfeited Hoard won't gain you anything.

Oasis is fine with Rebuild but I wouldn't call it out as a combo.
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AdamH

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #129 on: April 20, 2015, 12:37:44 pm »
+3

I will not argue that my idealism has been misplaced. I sort of thought people knew how to talk about Dominion perfectly and would see my examples and realize what the spirit of this thread was and never go off-topic. I didn't really want to close off the discussion to only power-combos that make beautiful music, but "what else can I do to keep discussion on track?"

And yes there are answers here that come short of "make a serious tag and be a real hard-patootie about it" which is exactly what I was looking for. So +1s for all of you. Yeah I guess I should just suck it up and do those things.

But I feel like I get to whine about it and then be mildly sorry for whining about it. I'm not perfect.
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pubby

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #130 on: April 20, 2015, 12:38:41 pm »
0

Journeyman doesn't topdeck, so how does that work?
Put the provinces in your discard while drawing your deck and then NV them.
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pacovf

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #131 on: April 20, 2015, 12:40:20 pm »
+1

Adventures was released to the public two days ago. How many games could any given person have possibly played with these cards to legitimately think that Adventures card combos are as good as the other combos here? "But Adam I played a Ferry+GM game and it was AMAZEBALLZ!" but there are tons of other cards Ferry is good with. Have you played with all of them? How do you know it's the special music between these two cards when you've been playing with Ferry for two days. I've been playing with the Adventures cards for 10 months and I still feel like that isn't nearly enough. Not even close. How can you know that flute+viola is so magical when you don't even know what a flute sounds like?

Surely this is a bit of an exaggeration? If before posting about a combo, you must have tried both cards separately with all other cards they could supposedly go well with, nobody will ever post anything. As you yourself said, there's just too many cards...

I'm all for keeping this thread useful, but I am confused as to what is expected of it.
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TheOthin

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #132 on: April 20, 2015, 12:42:12 pm »
0

I don't understand the fuss over Adventures speculation when this thread specifically calls for "potentially useful" interactions.
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AdamH

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #133 on: April 20, 2015, 12:43:12 pm »
+1

Surely this is a bit of an exaggeration? If before posting about a combo, you must have tried both cards separately with all other cards they could supposedly go well with, nobody will ever post anything. As you yourself said, there's just too many cards...

I'll be first to admit that I'm probably much more skeptical of everything in life than most people on this board. But no, it's not an exaggeration of my own personal feelings.

I'm all for keeping this thread useful, but I am confused as to what is expected of it.

Me too, brah. Me too.  :-\
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eHalcyon

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #134 on: April 20, 2015, 12:43:59 pm »
+1

Journeyman doesn't topdeck, so how does that work?
Put the provinces in your discard while drawing your deck and then NV them.

OK, but now you're asking for a lot of support from other cards.  I don't think NV/Catacombs alone is going to reliably draw your deck. At the least you want another village lest NV put away important cards during interim plays.
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xyz123

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #135 on: April 20, 2015, 02:18:02 pm »
0

Over the weekend I noticed Ill-Gotten Gains seems to have a symbiotic relationship with Mercenary.

With Mercenary the deck thinning and + 2 cards means you draw your Ill-Gotten Gains more often.
Which means you are more likely to hit 5 on that turn, as when needed you gain extra coppers with IGG.
Those extra coppers are then fuel to play Mercenary again.

Plus as well as clogging your opponents deck with curses you know have a discard attack.
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Dingan

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #136 on: April 20, 2015, 02:39:58 pm »
+1

Over the weekend I noticed Ill-Gotten Gains seems to have a symbiotic relationship with Mercenary.

With Mercenary the deck thinning and + 2 cards means you draw your Ill-Gotten Gains more often.
Which means you are more likely to hit 5 on that turn, as when needed you gain extra coppers with IGG.
Those extra coppers are then fuel to play Mercenary again.

Plus as well as clogging your opponents deck with curses you know have a discard attack.

I wouldn't put Merc+IGG as a particularly neat combo because...
If you have a Merc, doesn't your opponent often have one as well?  In which case, they're making you discard down to 3 about just as often.  And the curses you're giving them are fuel for their Merc.  Of course, if you're the only one with a Merc, or your Merc comes up at better times based on whatever shuffle luck, then your opponents will often tremble, no matter the kingdom.
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xyz123

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #137 on: April 20, 2015, 03:10:04 pm »
0

Over the weekend I noticed Ill-Gotten Gains seems to have a symbiotic relationship with Mercenary.

With Mercenary the deck thinning and + 2 cards means you draw your Ill-Gotten Gains more often.
Which means you are more likely to hit 5 on that turn, as when needed you gain extra coppers with IGG.
Those extra coppers are then fuel to play Mercenary again.

Plus as well as clogging your opponents deck with curses you know have a discard attack.

I wouldn't put Merc+IGG as a particularly neat combo because...
If you have a Merc, doesn't your opponent often have one as well?  In which case, they're making you discard down to 3 about just as often.  And the curses you're giving them are fuel for their Merc.  Of course, if you're the only one with a Merc, or your Merc comes up at better times based on whatever shuffle luck, then your opponents will often tremble, no matter the kingdom.

It surprised me how well it worked. My opponent did have one as well. I did have some luck in that the turn after I got my first Merc I had a reshuffle and drew my other Urchin and Merc together so I was hitting him twice as frequently. He also didn't go for the IGG rush. He tried some money strategy so was probably hurt more by my attacks then I was by his. Also I am only around the mid 3,000s on Goko so it is unlikely either of us were playing anything like the optimal strategy.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 03:13:44 pm by xyz123 »
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AdamH

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #138 on: April 20, 2015, 03:17:22 pm »
+1

I usually just IGG-nore IGG whenever there's any halfway decent trashing. In this case, I think Mercenary+Big Money might just beat Mercenary+IGG+Big Money. Of course this is rarely ever going to actually be the case but you catch my drift.
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Gherald

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #139 on: April 20, 2015, 03:27:27 pm »
+1

Right, Urchin/Mercenary is a reason to not bother with IGG.  They don't synergize, they anti-synergize, because in the face of an IGG buyer your opponent will get 2 mercenaries and have no trouble using their $5+ buys on something better than IGG.
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xyz123

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #140 on: April 20, 2015, 03:55:30 pm »
+1

Thanks for the replies.

Being corrected like this is what I was hoping to get out of the forum. I thought I had found something good but the reality sounds more like it was just not as bad as what my opponent was doing.

 8)
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AdamH

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #141 on: April 20, 2015, 04:10:19 pm »
+1

Tangents like this are super-productive. <3 <3 <3 It's why this place is so awesome.

GWAAAAH I'm so conflicted!
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ehunt

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #142 on: April 20, 2015, 05:27:52 pm »
+8

Tangents like this are super-productive. <3 <3 <3 It's why this place is so awesome.

GWAAAAH I'm so conflicted!

this wasn't a tangent. someone proposed an idea directly related to the thread title. someone else directly debated the idea (not edge-casing it) and others thoughtfully weighed the arguments; the original proposer concluded that there may have been an error.

(on the other hand these two posts of ours form a mini-tangent.)
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Witherweaver

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #143 on: April 20, 2015, 05:56:39 pm »
0

On the tangent topic of Ill-Gotten Gains, I remember one game I played against a bot with IGG + Trader + Feodum, and it all seemed to work out very nicely.  Of course, Trader synergizes with Feodum on its own, but trashing IGGs for 5 Silvers is cool; plus Trader itself is a partial IGG defense.  I'm not sure of the practicality of this in a real game, though (i.e., against a live opponent). 
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TheOthin

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #144 on: April 20, 2015, 06:04:58 pm »
0

IGG can also pick up Silvers in the presence of Trader, although you'd probably be better off trashing IGG when they collide.

However, it's worth bearing in mind that Trader, unlike Watchtower, stops IGG from taking Curses out of the Supply, so if even one IGG gets blocked the Curses won't get emptied. This may not be a concern, though, if you're going against the usual rush style of IGG, which you probably are with Feodum. Of course, I feel like this raises questions about the use of IGG in the first place.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #145 on: April 20, 2015, 06:16:31 pm »
+5

Adam, one idea if you want a list of the cream of the crop 2-card combos is to do a Qvist-like ranking of them. You could start a thread saying, "Hey guys, name 50 useful 2-card combos", and then get people to vote for the most useful, then maintain a list of the best 20, then periodically iterate by adding new combos to the list to be voted on.

Yeah it's a bit of work and it may be that no one has the time and motivation to do it. But I think it's the way to achieve what you're trying to achieve.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #146 on: April 20, 2015, 08:42:17 pm »
+1

Adam, one idea if you want a list of the cream of the crop 2-card combos is to do a Qvist-like ranking of them. You could start a thread saying, "Hey guys, name 50 useful 2-card combos", and then get people to vote for the most useful, then maintain a list of the best 20, then periodically iterate by adding new combos to the list to be voted on.

Yeah it's a bit of work and it may be that no one has the time and motivation to do it. But I think it's the way to achieve what you're trying to achieve.

I like this idea.

NV/Bridge
Royal Carriage/Bridge
KC/Bridge
MS/Hermit
MS/Apprentice
Governor + hand size reducer
KC/Masq + hand size reducer

That's all I have for now
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eHalcyon

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #147 on: April 20, 2015, 09:31:18 pm »
+1

Royal Carriage/Bridge

Can playtesters confirm this to be a respectable 2-card combo?  My instinct says that you usually won't be able to get enough RCs bought and into your tavern quickly enough for this to succeed.  Note, I totally think that this plan is viable with other support, but I don't think it will be a combo on its own.

Or maybe you are just pointing it out as a significant synergy, like "Governor + hand size reducer".  Even then I am uncertain; there are plenty of other ways to get multiple Bridges in play (like, say, TR-Bridge, or Village-Bridge, heh).
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AdamH

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #148 on: April 20, 2015, 10:00:56 pm »
+1

Adam, one idea if you want a list of the cream of the crop 2-card combos is to do a Qvist-like ranking of them. You could start a thread saying, "Hey guys, name 50 useful 2-card combos", and then get people to vote for the most useful, then maintain a list of the best 20, then periodically iterate by adding new combos to the list to be voted on.

Yeah it's a bit of work and it may be that no one has the time and motivation to do it. But I think it's the way to achieve what you're trying to achieve.

This is actually a really good idea. I think someone should do it, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the right guy for the job.

The discussion here has caused me to think about what I wanted from this thread originally. I wanted to sleep on it to help me decide, since as you can tell I'm sort of flailing today when I was presented with some helpful feedback.

Royal Carriage/Bridge
Can playtesters confirm this to be a respectable 2-card combo?

It's about as much of a thing as Throne Room/Bridge is, only slightly better.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #149 on: April 20, 2015, 10:30:56 pm »
0

IGG can also pick up Silvers in the presence of Trader, although you'd probably be better off trashing IGG when they collide.

However, it's worth bearing in mind that Trader, unlike Watchtower, stops IGG from taking Curses out of the Supply, so if even one IGG gets blocked the Curses won't get emptied. This may not be a concern, though, if you're going against the usual rush style of IGG, which you probably are with Feodum. Of course, I feel like this raises questions about the use of IGG in the first place.

Yeah, but then again, grabbing IGGs forces the opponent to deal with the curses in some way (which could be Trader itself).  But, getting a bunch of IGGs and then a bunch of feoda is kind of slow.. I think it may have only worked because the bot did something silly that just wasn't competitive.  I think Silvers and Feoda emptied.. or Foeda IGGs and Curses, and I had almost all the Silvers.
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