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Author Topic: Neat and potentially useful card interactions  (Read 120100 times)

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LastFootnote

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #50 on: March 24, 2015, 10:31:27 am »
+2

I've never understood why Coppersmith gets rated so low - without Copper trashing, it's consistently +$3 or +$4 in the early game, for $4.  That makes it comparable to Baron.

Well, Baron gives +1 Buy, which is significant.
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Awaclus

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #51 on: March 24, 2015, 10:45:26 am »
+5

I've never understood why Coppersmith gets rated so low - without Copper trashing, it's consistently +$3 or +$4 in the early game, for $4.  That makes it comparable to Baron.

There are multiple reasons:

  • You usually want your opening buys to help you hit $5 early, because that's the price point where most of the important Action cards are. Any hand with Coppersmith and enough Coppers to get you $5 could have been a hand with Silver and the same number of Coppers and you still would have had $5. Silver has the advantages of being non-terminal, costing $1 less and being always available in every game.
  • You do want to get rid of your Coppers, and Coppersmith starts to suck as soon as you don't have any Coppers in your deck.
  • If you can't get rid of Coppers, building an engine is much more difficult and if you can't build an engine, you don't have any use for Coppersmith.
  • When you've managed to build an engine with lots of Coppers and Coppersmith(s), you still need +buy to utilize all of your dollars.

Baron doesn't have any of these problems it's significantly easier to hit $5 with a Baron than it is to hit $5 with a Silver, you only have to keep one Estate around to use the full potential of all of your Barons, and it has the +buy on it already.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #52 on: March 24, 2015, 10:51:26 am »
+1

I feel I wouldn't buy more than half my barons if it didn't have the buy.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #53 on: March 24, 2015, 12:10:38 pm »
+1

New combo: Forge/Spice Merchant!

Forge can gain Coppers for Spice Merchant to trash to create the only possibility of +buy...

Happened in this game.
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AdamH

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #54 on: March 24, 2015, 12:14:40 pm »
+1

Well this thread had a good run, I guess.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #55 on: March 24, 2015, 12:18:27 pm »
+2

I've never understood why Coppersmith gets rated so low - without Copper trashing, it's consistently +$3 or +$4 in the early game, for $4.  That makes it comparable to Baron.

There are multiple reasons:

  • You usually want your opening buys to help you hit $5 early, because that's the price point where most of the important Action cards are. Any hand with Coppersmith and enough Coppers to get you $5 could have been a hand with Silver and the same number of Coppers and you still would have had $5. Silver has the advantages of being non-terminal, costing $1 less and being always available in every game.
  • You do want to get rid of your Coppers, and Coppersmith starts to suck as soon as you don't have any Coppers in your deck.
  • If you can't get rid of Coppers, building an engine is much more difficult and if you can't build an engine, you don't have any use for Coppersmith.
  • When you've managed to build an engine with lots of Coppers and Coppersmith(s), you still need +buy to utilize all of your dollars.

Baron doesn't have any of these problems it's significantly easier to hit $5 with a Baron than it is to hit $5 with a Silver, you only have to keep one Estate around to use the full potential of all of your Barons, and it has the +buy on it already.

I guess I'll save it for my Worker's Village/Margrave/Counting House/Vault/Scout engine, then.
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Chris is me

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #56 on: March 24, 2015, 03:29:50 pm »
+4

I guess the most interesting one I haven't seen mentioned would be Candlestick Maker / Gardens. It's one of the best Gardens enablers in the game, actually. Each CSM is at worst a Copper that gives you an additional buy, and unlike Workshop, Woodcutter, etc. they are non-terminal. Its cheap as fuck cost combined with the +Buy means you can afford to buy a TON of them (like more than 5) before you start greening. Once you start stuffing your deck, it swells so quickly that you can often get to 50 cards before the rush is over. Plus Coin tokens are just super useful for Gardens strategies. Those annoying $3 hands when you're trying to lock up the Gardens pile stop being a problem with Coin tokens. It's almost as good as Storeroom / Gardens.
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Gherald

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #57 on: March 25, 2015, 01:45:37 am »
0

Yeah, but the "neat" part is using the same treasures twice - once for buying Mandarin, and then the second time. I don't think that any other Dominion interaction allows for that.
Counterfeit?
Herbalist?
With Herbalist you can not use a treasure twice during the same turn.
Oh, that's what was meant. Well BM + HoP + Graverobber or Rogue also let you do this.  For treasures other than HoP, Counterfeit was mentioned and that could work with BM and Graverobber/Rogue for multiple plays of the same treasure in one turn, not just the two of buying Mandarin.

Also worth noting Mandarin doesn't have to be bought, it could be gained with e.g. Altar or Jester or Graverobber/Rogue or even Highway+IW and such
almost as good as Storeroom / Gardens.
I just played a game with Storeroom, Gardens, and P-stone.  Mmmm.

One I think a lot of people miss: Gardens and Soothsayer.  ~3 Soothsayers lets you simultaneously contest Gardens and Provinces in a way that can really catch your opponent off guard (they'll only be going for one, and you'll win because you can contest both)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #58 on: March 25, 2015, 07:23:45 am »
+8

Silver, when paired with a Gold, produce $5 on a consistent basis based on simulation results, however the code is still fairly basic right now.

I'm planning on adding this to the Dominion Combos page on the wiki, I didn't see it there last time I checked.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #59 on: March 25, 2015, 11:30:35 am »
+1

Cache + Doctor is something I played this morning in a really empty Kingdom without much else to do. Yet has surprisingly good synergy and pretty much works as a Big Money deck all by itself. You can open Silver / Doctor overpay, then buy Cache on $5, using Doctor to trash those Coppers before you even draw them. Get a second Doctor at some point and you can get essentially a Gold per shuffle without much drawback. Eventually you just buy gold straight up and then you're hitting $8 or more every draw. Kinda fun, I guess.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #60 on: March 25, 2015, 11:39:09 am »
0

Cache + Doctor is something I played this morning in a really empty Kingdom without much else to do. Yet has surprisingly good synergy and pretty much works as a Big Money deck all by itself. You can open Silver / Doctor overpay, then buy Cache on $5, using Doctor to trash those Coppers before you even draw them. Get a second Doctor at some point and you can get essentially a Gold per shuffle without much drawback. Eventually you just buy gold straight up and then you're hitting $8 or more every draw. Kinda fun, I guess.

Not to be a naysayer, but I wonder if that's really better than just buying Silver, Cache, and Gold. How many Estates and Coppers did you end up trashing?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #61 on: March 25, 2015, 11:48:54 am »
+9

I feel I wouldn't buy more than half my barons if it didn't have the buy.

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Chris is me

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #62 on: March 25, 2015, 01:01:22 pm »
0

Cache + Doctor is something I played this morning in a really empty Kingdom without much else to do. Yet has surprisingly good synergy and pretty much works as a Big Money deck all by itself. You can open Silver / Doctor overpay, then buy Cache on $5, using Doctor to trash those Coppers before you even draw them. Get a second Doctor at some point and you can get essentially a Gold per shuffle without much drawback. Eventually you just buy gold straight up and then you're hitting $8 or more every draw. Kinda fun, I guess.

Not to be a naysayer, but I wonder if that's really better than just buying Silver, Cache, and Gold. How many Estates and Coppers did you end up trashing?

I got the first Estate on my overpay, and the second near the end of a shuffle when I knew it would be there. I picked up a second Doctor by the end of the third shuffle and trashed at least 7 Copper. Bought 3 Caches, so I had at most 6 Copper in my deck, then I think I managed two Gold buys before picking up Province. Had just two Silver. Unfortunately I don't have the log from this game.

This seems like something easy enough to script in Dominate; I'll give it a try later. You very well could be right as trashing is rarely a benefit in Big Money - the reason Doctor works well in this strategy is because it trashes without hurting your current (or even future) turn much.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #63 on: March 25, 2015, 02:45:57 pm »
0

This seems like something easy enough to script in Dominate; I'll give it a try later. You very well could be right as trashing is rarely a benefit in Big Money - the reason Doctor works well in this strategy is because it trashes without hurting your current (or even future) turn much.

Well it "hurts" your turn in as much as each Doctor could have been a Silver. So it puts you down $2 in hand. Maybe it's worth it, dunno. I'd more readily believe that one Doctor was a good call than that two Doctors are.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #64 on: March 27, 2015, 11:30:01 am »
0

Maybe this one isn't that common, but I just had a fun Band of Misfits game with Shanty Town and Mining Village. When I had no other Action cards in my hand, it was Shanty Town. Otherwise it was Mining Village (or Conspirator, Forager, etc.). Band of Misfits is one of those cards that I need to buy more in order to really see its power. It's great with cards that are situationally awesome (Smugglers, Baron, etc.).
« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 11:31:12 am by LastFootnote »
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Burning Skull

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #65 on: March 27, 2015, 12:43:19 pm »
+1

I can see a surprisingly great potential in Village / Smithy combo.

pubby

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #66 on: March 27, 2015, 04:18:34 pm »
+2

Maybe this one isn't that common, but I just had a fun Band of Misfits game with Shanty Town and Mining Village. When I had no other Action cards in my hand, it was Shanty Town. Otherwise it was Mining Village (or Conspirator, Forager, etc.). Band of Misfits is one of those cards that I need to buy more in order to really see its power. It's great with cards that are situationally awesome (Smugglers, Baron, etc.).
I've noticed that it makes "bad" cards significantly more important. Cards like Thief or Feast can usually be ignored, but when BoM's on the board you have to pay attention to them.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #67 on: March 27, 2015, 04:20:41 pm »
+5

Play band of misfits as feast. Trash band of misfits. Gain a band of misfits. Yes!

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #68 on: March 27, 2015, 04:23:17 pm »
+1

Maybe this one isn't that common, but I just had a fun Band of Misfits game with Shanty Town and Mining Village. When I had no other Action cards in my hand, it was Shanty Town. Otherwise it was Mining Village (or Conspirator, Forager, etc.). Band of Misfits is one of those cards that I need to buy more in order to really see its power. It's great with cards that are situationally awesome (Smugglers, Baron, etc.).
I've noticed that it makes "bad" cards significantly more important. Cards like Thief or Feast can usually be ignored, but when BoM's on the board you have to pay attention to them.

I play BoM as Feast to gain a BoM!
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #69 on: March 27, 2015, 04:31:55 pm »
0

With KC, or for the last Duchy
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pubby

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #70 on: March 27, 2015, 07:35:25 pm »
+1

Play band of misfits as feast. Trash band of misfits. Gain a band of misfits. Yes!

It has won me the game before.

Quote
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Feast
pubby   plays Feast
pubby   trashes Feast
pubby   gains Band of Misfits
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Feast
pubby   plays Feast
pubby   trashes Feast
pubby   gains Band of Misfits
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Feast
pubby   plays Feast
pubby   trashes Feast
pubby   gains Band of Misfits
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Feast
pubby   plays Feast
pubby   trashes Feast
pubby   gains Band of Misfits
pubby   plays City
pubby   shuffles deck
pubby   draws Band of Misfits, Band of Misfits
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Mining Village
pubby   plays Mining Village
pubby   draws Band of Misfits
pubby   trashes Mining Village
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Mining Village
pubby   plays Mining Village
pubby   draws Band of Misfits
pubby   trashes Mining Village
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Feast
pubby   plays Feast
pubby   trashes Feast
pubby   gains Band of Misfits
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Mining Village
pubby   plays Mining Village
pubby   shuffles deck
pubby   draws Band of Misfits
pubby   trashes Mining Village
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Feast
pubby   plays Feast
pubby   trashes Feast
pubby   gains Duchy
pubby   plays 2 Silver, 1 Copper
pubby   buys Province
pubby   gains Province
pubby   buys Province
pubby   gains Province
pubby   shuffles deck
pubby   draws City, Copper, Silver, City, Province
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sudgy

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #71 on: March 27, 2015, 11:12:01 pm »
+2

Play band of misfits as feast. Trash band of misfits. Gain a band of misfits. Yes!

WHO ARE YOU AND HOW DID YOU NINJA ME WITHOUT ME EVEN KNOWING
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #72 on: March 28, 2015, 02:29:34 pm »
+4

Play band of misfits as feast. Trash band of misfits. Gain a band of misfits. Yes!

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #73 on: March 28, 2015, 03:12:00 pm »
0

And the rhetorical device of repetition signals emphasis out of this world.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #74 on: March 28, 2015, 05:34:41 pm »
0

Maybe this one isn't that common, but I just had a fun Band of Misfits game with Shanty Town and Mining Village. When I had no other Action cards in my hand, it was Shanty Town. Otherwise it was Mining Village (or Conspirator, Forager, etc.). Band of Misfits is one of those cards that I need to buy more in order to really see its power. It's great with cards that are situationally awesome (Smugglers, Baron, etc.).
I've noticed that it makes "bad" cards significantly more important. Cards like Thief or Feast can usually be ignored, but when BoM's on the board you have to pay attention to them.

I play BoM as Feast to gain a BoM!

I have played a bot game on Goko where the bot ignored all other Kingdom cards until it had finished off the BoM pile that way.

I think BoM is very good when Conspirator is on the board as BoM can be used to either activate the Conspirator chain or be pat of it.

An interaction I like is Sage/Potion/cheap potion card such as University or Apothecary. If you open Potion/Sage then providing you do not draw them in the same hand over turns 3 to 5 you can stock up on the cheap potion card.
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