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Author Topic: Neat and potentially useful card interactions  (Read 503094 times)

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AdamH

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Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« on: March 21, 2015, 02:01:42 pm »
+18

I would have put this in the Articles subforum, but this thread, which is one of my favorite threads on the forum in recent memory, was posted here, so Imitation Is The Sincerest Form Of Flattery (IITSFOF)...

The purpose of this thread is to highlight neat little interactions or synergies between two cards that may not be the most obvious thing. A couple of times this has caught me by surprise in a game and while they may have been talked about in bits and pieces on the forums, I really like the idea of being able to read a thread full of one-line cute tricks. Who knows if you'll find any goodies that you hadn't really thought of?

EDIT: Let's try to keep this thread on topic, please  :)

I'll begin:

Quarry and Stonemason: When playing Quarry, the price of Stonemason reduces to zero, so the normal "quarry gives +$2 if you're buying one action" and "you need $2 extra to get the extra action with Stonemason" becomes much better. You get cost reduction on both the Stonemason you buy AND on the overpay!

Apothecary and Shanty Town: Any top-deck interaction will help you trigger your Shanty Towns more, this is true; but I think Apothecary stands to benefit the most from this, as it can get a lot out of using Shanty Towns early to draw your green and pushing your terminals off until later in the turn when you've got the actions to play them and trigger future Shanty Towns.

Doctor and Fool's Gold: These two have a troubled relationship, that's for sure. Fool's Gold is a card that can provide you high-income hands very early, which can lead to very beneficial Doctor overpays if you're paying close attention.

Highway and Horn of Plenty: You don't need to worry about having enough unique cards with Highway around, every Highway you play effectively counts as a unique card since it reduces the cost of whatever you're going to gain.

...and some of the more standard ones:

Highway and Ironworks Cost-reducers and gainers synergize, for sure, but these two probably deserve a special mention. Highway and Ironworks are both non-terminal so it's very easy to get lots of them to increase your chances of collision, and spamming these cards can be a way to get lots of power-$5 cards very quickly.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 04:15:02 pm by AdamH »
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ehunt

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2015, 02:09:33 pm »
+3

never thought about quarry/stonemason. i think that's a genuine combo. also, quarry is an expensive card that's not very good in the late game, which helps justify taking that extra stonemason
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AdamH

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2015, 02:24:09 pm »
0

University and Inn: The best thing I can think of for this is that every time you have a Uni in hand, think about gaining an Inn. It's probably amazing. Sure it isn't worth it without some kind of draw, but thinking about this will have you doing much better than the other guy who doesn't.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2015, 02:29:30 pm »
+9

Mint and Apprentice: Trash your coppers, reload your fuel.
University and Apprentice: Similar
University and City: empties piles easy.


I will point out with Stonemason/quarry, you may eventually need to NOT play quarry, so you can overpay for, e.g., the last of the stonemasons.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2015, 02:56:09 pm »
+4

Gaining too many Inns with University could get to be a bit of a mess, as you're ending up with a bunch of hand-size-reducing villages. They can definitely be useful but you don't want more than you can use.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2015, 03:02:20 pm »
+3

Chancellor/Scavenger and Hunting Party: On an otherwise weak board with Hunting Party, you typically want to avoid cantrips like Caravan. However, if the best terminal on the board is Chancellor or Scavenger, this is a non-issue. (This doubles as an edge case where Chancellor > Scavenger. Unfortunately, it's rare.)
« Last Edit: March 21, 2015, 03:04:05 pm by ehunt »
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JacquesTheBard

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2015, 03:04:11 pm »
+3

Quarry/Stonemason always seemed really clear to me, but then again, they are my favorite cards.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2015, 03:19:39 pm »
+4

Scavenger/Venture. Topdeck your best treasure and then play Venture.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2015, 03:21:04 pm »
+1

I will point out with Stonemason/quarry, you may eventually need to NOT play quarry, so you can overpay for, e.g., the last of the stonemasons.
You would also want to be careful to not play multiple Quarry for anything under $5 as cards costing zero (like the Stonemason you just reduced to $0) would be impossible to pick up. But the early game interaction is definitely worth noting.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2015, 03:47:15 pm »
+2

Ghost Ship/Wishing Well - you can guarantee a hit after getting hit by a Ghost Ship attack, which mitigates a lot of the attack. Similarly, Farming Villages lets you topdeck Victory cards and skip right past them

Ghost Ship/Fortune Teller - if you can play both in 1 turn, you deny allowing the opponent to topdeck good cards, and mess up the previous Well and/or FV interaction. You may allow them to topdeck Coppers which get discarded though, so be careful (want to make sure they at least have 1 Victory card in their deck.)

Develop/Herald - You can guarantee a Herald hit since the action you want to hit can be placed 2nd from the top.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2015, 04:25:58 pm »
+1

On-trash effects/Doctor - you can buy cards with on-trash effects and trash them the same turn with a Doctor overpay, which is mostly useful for ending the game on piles with Catacombs or Hunting Grounds.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2015, 12:31:20 am »
+9

I'm pretty sure Quarry is why Stonemason is called that. Maybe the clearest case of synergistic cards having synergistic names in the whole game. (That, or sacrificing Cultists at the Altar.)
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AdamH

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2015, 12:32:19 am »
+3

I'm pretty sure Quarry is why Stonemason is called that. Maybe the clearest case of synergistic cards having synergistic names in the whole game. (That, or sacrificing Cultists at the Altar.)

Are you trying to tell me that Butcher and Peddler don't fit this description?  :'(
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2015, 12:38:44 am »
0

REDACTED and REDACTED.  Oops, I can't talk about those yet!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2015, 12:44:39 am »
+9

How well-known should the interactions mentioned here be? Like, does Scheme + Hermit/Madman belong here?

An interaction I like is Courtyard/Native Village. Not great for increasing handsize, but having them both in your engine deck ensures you can set the green cards you gain aside on the NV mat every turn. Similar to how Apothecary/Native Village works, but you can set aside the green cards in your starting hand too.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2015, 12:49:46 am »
+1

Bishop/Market Square.  This was on a board today I was trying to tinker with Hunting Grounds on, and I got distracted.  Bishop a Copper, discard two MS's, get two Golds to Bishop later!  It lets you Golden deck without needing the spending power.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2015, 05:07:31 am »
+7

Chancellor/Scout: Self-explanatory. This one is an obvious combo, and a great 3/4 opening.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2015, 11:09:10 am »
+16

Even better: Chapel/Scout. So you can trash your Scouts.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2015, 11:18:52 am »
+2

REDACTED? / Scout is clearly better.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2015, 11:30:32 am »
+4

Watchtower/X is a good idea most of the time.

Scavenger/Scavenger. It's lucky chancellor without the luck. Even better with TR, KC, or Prince. Especially with KC, you can topdeck scavenger-KC-platinum every turn for a colony every turn. ymyosl.

For doctor/FG it is strong to get doctor on the opening as well. And be careful with quarry not to make the cards you want to overpay for cost 0.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2015, 11:33:55 am »
+4

It's lucky chancellor without the luck.

So it's just Chancellor?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2015, 11:37:00 am »
+1

It's lucky chancellor without the luck.

So it's just Chancellor?
Oh. Uh, yeah, and chancellor is really good, so you want to play it every turn!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2015, 11:39:37 am »
+3

Chancellor/Scout: Self-explanatory. This one is an obvious combo, and a great 3/4 opening.

Scout draws your green so that you can draw and play Chancellor earlier.
Chancellor puts your deck in your discard pile so that you can draw and play your Scouts in your discard pile earlier.
Your deck ramps up lightning fast.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2015, 05:34:41 pm »
+4

Swindler/Peddler: If the Peddlers are likely to run out, your Swindlers could end up turning opponents' Peddlers into Provinces; otherwise they could turn their Provinces into Peddlers.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2015, 06:45:07 pm »
+2

Counterfeit/Fool's Gold is a fun and potentially useful one
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2015, 06:52:36 pm »
+1

Counterfeit/Fool's Gold is a fun and potentially useful one
Huh, I wonder where you thought of that one...
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2015, 07:05:55 pm »
+2

The general combo of cost reducer + gainer is a great one to know.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2015, 07:49:12 pm »
+2

Counterfeit/Fool's Gold is a fun and potentially useful one
Huh, I wonder where you thought of that one...

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2015, 11:23:35 pm »
+1

Fool's Gold BM+X seems so spiky that you may hit 12 with it once or twice and then have to tweak your strategy.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2015, 02:16:39 am »
+4

Even better: Chapel/Scout. So you can trash your Scouts.
Scout draws your starting Estates to be trashed with Chapel!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2015, 07:36:16 am »
+2

I wondered about possible Black Marker combos:

BM+Poor House - play BM and all the treasures with it, thus maximizing the worth of your Poor Houses
BM+Mandarin - buy Mandarin from BM deck, topdecking your treasures and then drawing them again. This enables you to use same treasure cards again in the same turn.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2015, 08:17:09 am »
+10

Black Marker definitely synergises with Adventure cards as long as they are not to be named.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2015, 08:43:26 am »
+2

Black Market + draw-up-to-x:
Play Black Market + a lot of treasures (it doesn't matter whether you actually buy something from the BM deck or not), then play your draw-up-to-x (e.g. Library).  You will have the coins from the treasure you just played, while you draw a ton more cards.  Do this multiple times per turn and you're off to the races.  Of course this requires some sort of village for support.

Usage:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150315/log.516d4577e4b082c74d7b716e.1426465057559.txt

EDIT: I suggest the OPer put the most useful/simple/interesting interactions into the OP, to make them easy to find later.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2015, 08:46:44 am by Dingan »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2015, 12:38:40 pm »
+1

I wondered about possible Black Marker combos:

BM+Poor House - play BM and all the treasures with it, thus maximizing the worth of your Poor Houses
BM+Mandarin - buy Mandarin from BM deck, topdecking your treasures and then drawing them again. This enables you to use same treasure cards again in the same turn.
The problem is that you're spending $5 on Mandarin and then you have to actually draw those Treasure cards again, when you could've just not spent the $5 and drawn just as many other cards.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2015, 12:40:46 pm »
0

I wondered about possible Black Marker combos:

BM+Poor House - play BM and all the treasures with it, thus maximizing the worth of your Poor Houses
BM+Mandarin - buy Mandarin from BM deck, topdecking your treasures and then drawing them again. This enables you to use same treasure cards again in the same turn.
The problem is that you're spending $5 on Mandarin and then you have to actually draw those Treasure cards again, when you could've just not spent the $5 and drawn just as many other cards.

Unless you're overdrawing your deck.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2015, 12:48:01 pm »
0

I wondered about possible Black Marker combos:

BM+Poor House - play BM and all the treasures with it, thus maximizing the worth of your Poor Houses
BM+Mandarin - buy Mandarin from BM deck, topdecking your treasures and then drawing them again. This enables you to use same treasure cards again in the same turn.
The problem is that you're spending $5 on Mandarin and then you have to actually draw those Treasure cards again, when you could've just not spent the $5 and drawn just as many other cards.

Unless you're overdrawing your deck.

Very true. It can also be helpful if you've already drawn especially high-value Treasures like Platinum.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2015, 07:52:58 pm »
+3

Scout/Apothecary. No, seriously. Ok, so it's not useful, really, but it's neat.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2015, 08:25:36 pm »
0

Prince/Counting House, maybe?
Counting House can get you to a quick $8 if you're lucky, and being able to play Counting House enablers like Chancellor, Scavenger, Storeroom etc without an action means being able to set up all those combos that are not feasible normally. It's not really enough to be a combo, with luck and a third card involved, but iplayed it in one of my first Prince games, and it was fun.

If not Counting House, how about Coppersmith/Prince? It can also get you to $8 early, and effectively turns all your Coppers into Silvers. Not sure whether that's combo territory, but it does look like a nice interaction.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2015, 09:25:25 pm »
+2

Journeyman + Fairgrounds
Chapel + Gardens
Counting House + Poor House
Highway + Bishop

I wondered about possible Black Marker combos:

BM+Poor House - play BM and all the treasures with it, thus maximizing the worth of your Poor Houses
BM+Mandarin - buy Mandarin from BM deck, topdecking your treasures and then drawing them again. This enables you to use same treasure cards again in the same turn.
The problem is that you're spending $5 on Mandarin and then you have to actually draw those Treasure cards again, when you could've just not spent the $5 and drawn just as many other cards.

Yeah, but the "neat" part is using the same treasures twice - once for buying Mandarin, and then the second time. I don't think that any other Dominion interaction allows for that.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2015, 09:26:45 pm »
0

Yeah, but the "neat" part is using the same treasures twice - once for buying Mandarin, and then the second time. I don't think that any other Dominion interaction allows for that.
Counterfeit?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2015, 11:02:14 pm »
0

Good to know your nombos. But in all seriousness, Prince + Cost Reducer is pretty special.

I like cost reducers, can't you tell?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2015, 11:18:17 pm »
0

Yeah, but the "neat" part is using the same treasures twice - once for buying Mandarin, and then the second time. I don't think that any other Dominion interaction allows for that.
Counterfeit?
Herbalist?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2015, 02:29:55 am »
0

Yeah, but the "neat" part is using the same treasures twice - once for buying Mandarin, and then the second time. I don't think that any other Dominion interaction allows for that.
Counterfeit?
Herbalist?

With Herbalist you can not use a treasure twice during the same turn.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2015, 08:28:01 am »
+2

Apprentice/Explorer

Apprentice gives big hands and trashing to line up Province/Explorer, Explorer gives Gold to trash with Apprentice. Not as crazy as Market Square/Apprentice, but still quite useful.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2015, 09:44:18 am »
0

Prince/Counting House, maybe?
Counting House can get you to a quick $8 if you're lucky, and being able to play Counting House enablers like Chancellor, Scavenger, Storeroom etc without an action means being able to set up all those combos that are not feasible normally. It's not really enough to be a combo, with luck and a third card involved, but iplayed it in one of my first Prince games, and it was fun.

If not Counting House, how about Coppersmith/Prince? It can also get you to $8 early, and effectively turns all your Coppers into Silvers. Not sure whether that's combo territory, but it does look like a nice interaction.

Scavenger and Chancellor don't synergize with a Princed CH, since the CH gets played first, before you get to play the Scavenger.

I can maybe see Prince/Coppersmith... but the problem is that you need to hit 8 early and want to have more Copper than normal in your deck.  Most of the time you'd prefer to get rid of the Coppers and buy something better.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2015, 09:47:57 am »
0

Good to know your nombos. But in all seriousness, Prince + Cost Reducer is pretty special.

I like cost reducers, can't you tell?

Be careful about *Princing* a cost-reducer when you want to use a cost-caring TfB, like Apprentice.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2015, 09:52:22 am »
+1

Prince/Counting House, maybe?
Counting House can get you to a quick $8 if you're lucky, and being able to play Counting House enablers like Chancellor, Scavenger, Storeroom etc without an action means being able to set up all those combos that are not feasible normally. It's not really enough to be a combo, with luck and a third card involved, but iplayed it in one of my first Prince games, and it was fun.

If not Counting House, how about Coppersmith/Prince? It can also get you to $8 early, and effectively turns all your Coppers into Silvers. Not sure whether that's combo territory, but it does look like a nice interaction.

Scavenger and Chancellor don't synergize with a Princed CH, since the CH gets played first, before you get to play the Scavenger.

I can maybe see Prince/Coppersmith... but the problem is that you need to hit 8 early and want to have more Copper than normal in your deck.  Most of the time you'd prefer to get rid of the Coppers and buy something better.

I assume he meant Prince the Chancellor/Scavenger, especially because you don't need a cost-reducer to do so.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #47 on: March 24, 2015, 10:03:07 am »
+4

I can maybe see Prince/Coppersmith... but the problem is that you need to hit 8 early and want to have more Copper than normal in your deck.  Most of the time you'd prefer to get rid of the Coppers and buy something better.

You're thinking about this backwards. Coppersmith itself helps you get $8 early and Prince of Coppersmiths does make you want more Copper than normal in your deck. "Most of the time you'd rather get rid of it and buy something better?" Prince of Coppersmiths instantly "gets rid" of all your Copper and replaces it with Silvers.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #48 on: March 24, 2015, 10:29:17 am »
0

I've never understood why Coppersmith gets rated so low - without Copper trashing, it's consistently +$3 or +$4 in the early game, for $4.  That makes it comparable to Baron.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #49 on: March 24, 2015, 10:31:27 am »
+2

I've never understood why Coppersmith gets rated so low - without Copper trashing, it's consistently +$3 or +$4 in the early game, for $4.  That makes it comparable to Baron.

Well, Baron gives +1 Buy, which is significant.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #50 on: March 24, 2015, 10:45:26 am »
+6

I've never understood why Coppersmith gets rated so low - without Copper trashing, it's consistently +$3 or +$4 in the early game, for $4.  That makes it comparable to Baron.

There are multiple reasons:

  • You usually want your opening buys to help you hit $5 early, because that's the price point where most of the important Action cards are. Any hand with Coppersmith and enough Coppers to get you $5 could have been a hand with Silver and the same number of Coppers and you still would have had $5. Silver has the advantages of being non-terminal, costing $1 less and being always available in every game.
  • You do want to get rid of your Coppers, and Coppersmith starts to suck as soon as you don't have any Coppers in your deck.
  • If you can't get rid of Coppers, building an engine is much more difficult and if you can't build an engine, you don't have any use for Coppersmith.
  • When you've managed to build an engine with lots of Coppers and Coppersmith(s), you still need +buy to utilize all of your dollars.

Baron doesn't have any of these problems — it's significantly easier to hit $5 with a Baron than it is to hit $5 with a Silver, you only have to keep one Estate around to use the full potential of all of your Barons, and it has the +buy on it already.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #51 on: March 24, 2015, 10:51:26 am »
+2

I feel I wouldn't buy more than half my barons if it didn't have the buy.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #52 on: March 24, 2015, 12:10:38 pm »
+1

New combo: Forge/Spice Merchant!

Forge can gain Coppers for Spice Merchant to trash to create the only possibility of +buy...

Happened in this game.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #53 on: March 24, 2015, 12:14:40 pm »
+1

Well this thread had a good run, I guess.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #54 on: March 24, 2015, 12:18:27 pm »
+2

I've never understood why Coppersmith gets rated so low - without Copper trashing, it's consistently +$3 or +$4 in the early game, for $4.  That makes it comparable to Baron.

There are multiple reasons:

  • You usually want your opening buys to help you hit $5 early, because that's the price point where most of the important Action cards are. Any hand with Coppersmith and enough Coppers to get you $5 could have been a hand with Silver and the same number of Coppers and you still would have had $5. Silver has the advantages of being non-terminal, costing $1 less and being always available in every game.
  • You do want to get rid of your Coppers, and Coppersmith starts to suck as soon as you don't have any Coppers in your deck.
  • If you can't get rid of Coppers, building an engine is much more difficult and if you can't build an engine, you don't have any use for Coppersmith.
  • When you've managed to build an engine with lots of Coppers and Coppersmith(s), you still need +buy to utilize all of your dollars.

Baron doesn't have any of these problems — it's significantly easier to hit $5 with a Baron than it is to hit $5 with a Silver, you only have to keep one Estate around to use the full potential of all of your Barons, and it has the +buy on it already.

I guess I'll save it for my Worker's Village/Margrave/Counting House/Vault/Scout engine, then.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #55 on: March 24, 2015, 03:29:50 pm »
+5

I guess the most interesting one I haven't seen mentioned would be Candlestick Maker / Gardens. It's one of the best Gardens enablers in the game, actually. Each CSM is at worst a Copper that gives you an additional buy, and unlike Workshop, Woodcutter, etc. they are non-terminal. Its cheap as fuck cost combined with the +Buy means you can afford to buy a TON of them (like more than 5) before you start greening. Once you start stuffing your deck, it swells so quickly that you can often get to 50 cards before the rush is over. Plus Coin tokens are just super useful for Gardens strategies. Those annoying $3 hands when you're trying to lock up the Gardens pile stop being a problem with Coin tokens. It's almost as good as Storeroom / Gardens.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #56 on: March 25, 2015, 01:45:37 am »
0

Yeah, but the "neat" part is using the same treasures twice - once for buying Mandarin, and then the second time. I don't think that any other Dominion interaction allows for that.
Counterfeit?
Herbalist?
With Herbalist you can not use a treasure twice during the same turn.
Oh, that's what was meant. Well BM + HoP + Graverobber or Rogue also let you do this.  For treasures other than HoP, Counterfeit was mentioned and that could work with BM and Graverobber/Rogue for multiple plays of the same treasure in one turn, not just the two of buying Mandarin.

Also worth noting Mandarin doesn't have to be bought, it could be gained with e.g. Altar or Jester or Graverobber/Rogue or even Highway+IW and such
almost as good as Storeroom / Gardens.
I just played a game with Storeroom, Gardens, and P-stone.  Mmmm.

One I think a lot of people miss: Gardens and Soothsayer.  ~3 Soothsayers lets you simultaneously contest Gardens and Provinces in a way that can really catch your opponent off guard (they'll only be going for one, and you'll win because you can contest both)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #57 on: March 25, 2015, 07:23:45 am »
+8

Silver, when paired with a Gold, produce $5 on a consistent basis based on simulation results, however the code is still fairly basic right now.

I'm planning on adding this to the Dominion Combos page on the wiki, I didn't see it there last time I checked.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #58 on: March 25, 2015, 11:30:35 am »
+1

Cache + Doctor is something I played this morning in a really empty Kingdom without much else to do. Yet has surprisingly good synergy and pretty much works as a Big Money deck all by itself. You can open Silver / Doctor overpay, then buy Cache on $5, using Doctor to trash those Coppers before you even draw them. Get a second Doctor at some point and you can get essentially a Gold per shuffle without much drawback. Eventually you just buy gold straight up and then you're hitting $8 or more every draw. Kinda fun, I guess.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #59 on: March 25, 2015, 11:39:09 am »
0

Cache + Doctor is something I played this morning in a really empty Kingdom without much else to do. Yet has surprisingly good synergy and pretty much works as a Big Money deck all by itself. You can open Silver / Doctor overpay, then buy Cache on $5, using Doctor to trash those Coppers before you even draw them. Get a second Doctor at some point and you can get essentially a Gold per shuffle without much drawback. Eventually you just buy gold straight up and then you're hitting $8 or more every draw. Kinda fun, I guess.

Not to be a naysayer, but I wonder if that's really better than just buying Silver, Cache, and Gold. How many Estates and Coppers did you end up trashing?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #60 on: March 25, 2015, 11:48:54 am »
+10

I feel I wouldn't buy more than half my barons if it didn't have the buy.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #61 on: March 25, 2015, 01:01:22 pm »
0

Cache + Doctor is something I played this morning in a really empty Kingdom without much else to do. Yet has surprisingly good synergy and pretty much works as a Big Money deck all by itself. You can open Silver / Doctor overpay, then buy Cache on $5, using Doctor to trash those Coppers before you even draw them. Get a second Doctor at some point and you can get essentially a Gold per shuffle without much drawback. Eventually you just buy gold straight up and then you're hitting $8 or more every draw. Kinda fun, I guess.

Not to be a naysayer, but I wonder if that's really better than just buying Silver, Cache, and Gold. How many Estates and Coppers did you end up trashing?

I got the first Estate on my overpay, and the second near the end of a shuffle when I knew it would be there. I picked up a second Doctor by the end of the third shuffle and trashed at least 7 Copper. Bought 3 Caches, so I had at most 6 Copper in my deck, then I think I managed two Gold buys before picking up Province. Had just two Silver. Unfortunately I don't have the log from this game.

This seems like something easy enough to script in Dominate; I'll give it a try later. You very well could be right as trashing is rarely a benefit in Big Money - the reason Doctor works well in this strategy is because it trashes without hurting your current (or even future) turn much.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #62 on: March 25, 2015, 02:45:57 pm »
0

This seems like something easy enough to script in Dominate; I'll give it a try later. You very well could be right as trashing is rarely a benefit in Big Money - the reason Doctor works well in this strategy is because it trashes without hurting your current (or even future) turn much.

Well it "hurts" your turn in as much as each Doctor could have been a Silver. So it puts you down $2 in hand. Maybe it's worth it, dunno. I'd more readily believe that one Doctor was a good call than that two Doctors are.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #63 on: March 27, 2015, 11:30:01 am »
0

Maybe this one isn't that common, but I just had a fun Band of Misfits game with Shanty Town and Mining Village. When I had no other Action cards in my hand, it was Shanty Town. Otherwise it was Mining Village (or Conspirator, Forager, etc.). Band of Misfits is one of those cards that I need to buy more in order to really see its power. It's great with cards that are situationally awesome (Smugglers, Baron, etc.).
« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 11:31:12 am by LastFootnote »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #64 on: March 27, 2015, 12:43:19 pm »
+3

I can see a surprisingly great potential in Village / Smithy combo.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #65 on: March 27, 2015, 04:18:34 pm »
+2

Maybe this one isn't that common, but I just had a fun Band of Misfits game with Shanty Town and Mining Village. When I had no other Action cards in my hand, it was Shanty Town. Otherwise it was Mining Village (or Conspirator, Forager, etc.). Band of Misfits is one of those cards that I need to buy more in order to really see its power. It's great with cards that are situationally awesome (Smugglers, Baron, etc.).
I've noticed that it makes "bad" cards significantly more important. Cards like Thief or Feast can usually be ignored, but when BoM's on the board you have to pay attention to them.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #66 on: March 27, 2015, 04:20:41 pm »
+5

Play band of misfits as feast. Trash band of misfits. Gain a band of misfits. Yes!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #67 on: March 27, 2015, 04:23:17 pm »
+1

Maybe this one isn't that common, but I just had a fun Band of Misfits game with Shanty Town and Mining Village. When I had no other Action cards in my hand, it was Shanty Town. Otherwise it was Mining Village (or Conspirator, Forager, etc.). Band of Misfits is one of those cards that I need to buy more in order to really see its power. It's great with cards that are situationally awesome (Smugglers, Baron, etc.).
I've noticed that it makes "bad" cards significantly more important. Cards like Thief or Feast can usually be ignored, but when BoM's on the board you have to pay attention to them.

I play BoM as Feast to gain a BoM!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #68 on: March 27, 2015, 04:31:55 pm »
0

With KC, or for the last Duchy
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #69 on: March 27, 2015, 07:35:25 pm »
+1

Play band of misfits as feast. Trash band of misfits. Gain a band of misfits. Yes!

It has won me the game before.

Quote
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Feast
pubby   plays Feast
pubby   trashes Feast
pubby   gains Band of Misfits
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Feast
pubby   plays Feast
pubby   trashes Feast
pubby   gains Band of Misfits
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Feast
pubby   plays Feast
pubby   trashes Feast
pubby   gains Band of Misfits
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Feast
pubby   plays Feast
pubby   trashes Feast
pubby   gains Band of Misfits
pubby   plays City
pubby   shuffles deck
pubby   draws Band of Misfits, Band of Misfits
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Mining Village
pubby   plays Mining Village
pubby   draws Band of Misfits
pubby   trashes Mining Village
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Mining Village
pubby   plays Mining Village
pubby   draws Band of Misfits
pubby   trashes Mining Village
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Feast
pubby   plays Feast
pubby   trashes Feast
pubby   gains Band of Misfits
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Mining Village
pubby   plays Mining Village
pubby   shuffles deck
pubby   draws Band of Misfits
pubby   trashes Mining Village
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Feast
pubby   plays Feast
pubby   trashes Feast
pubby   gains Duchy
pubby   plays 2 Silver, 1 Copper
pubby   buys Province
pubby   gains Province
pubby   buys Province
pubby   gains Province
pubby   shuffles deck
pubby   draws City, Copper, Silver, City, Province
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #70 on: March 27, 2015, 11:12:01 pm »
+2

Play band of misfits as feast. Trash band of misfits. Gain a band of misfits. Yes!

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #71 on: March 28, 2015, 02:29:34 pm »
+4

Play band of misfits as feast. Trash band of misfits. Gain a band of misfits. Yes!

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #72 on: March 28, 2015, 03:12:00 pm »
0

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #73 on: March 28, 2015, 05:34:41 pm »
0

Maybe this one isn't that common, but I just had a fun Band of Misfits game with Shanty Town and Mining Village. When I had no other Action cards in my hand, it was Shanty Town. Otherwise it was Mining Village (or Conspirator, Forager, etc.). Band of Misfits is one of those cards that I need to buy more in order to really see its power. It's great with cards that are situationally awesome (Smugglers, Baron, etc.).
I've noticed that it makes "bad" cards significantly more important. Cards like Thief or Feast can usually be ignored, but when BoM's on the board you have to pay attention to them.

I play BoM as Feast to gain a BoM!

I have played a bot game on Goko where the bot ignored all other Kingdom cards until it had finished off the BoM pile that way.

I think BoM is very good when Conspirator is on the board as BoM can be used to either activate the Conspirator chain or be pat of it.

An interaction I like is Sage/Potion/cheap potion card such as University or Apothecary. If you open Potion/Sage then providing you do not draw them in the same hand over turns 3 to 5 you can stock up on the cheap potion card.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #74 on: March 28, 2015, 06:12:18 pm »
0

An interaction I like is Sage/Potion/cheap potion card such as University or Apothecary. If you open Potion/Sage then providing you do not draw them in the same hand over turns 3 to 5 you can stock up on the cheap potion card.

It's also very good with Familiar — it gives you slightly higher odds of hitting $3P on turns 3 and 4 than Silver does, and then it helps you play the Familiars more often.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #75 on: March 28, 2015, 06:13:42 pm »
+2

An interaction I like is Sage/Potion/cheap potion card such as University or Apothecary. If you open Potion/Sage then providing you do not draw them in the same hand over turns 3 to 5 you can stock up on the cheap potion card.

It's also very good with Familiar — it gives you slightly higher odds of hitting $3P on turns 3 and 4 than Silver does, and then it helps you play the Familiars more often.

Just try not to cry too hard when Sage skips over your University.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #76 on: April 06, 2015, 04:14:27 pm »
+3

So let's be really optimistic here and assume this will do the trick:

Let's try to keep this thread on-topic, please :)

In that vein, I'll post a few more of these. Some are classics, but maybe not all of them.

Quarry/Talisman: Relatively well-known, but the big bummer about Talisman is that it can't gain $5+ cards, and Quarry fixes that. Sure, other cost reduction works for this, but Quarry is also a treasure, stacks easily for Actions, and lets you get $6 cards too.

Menagerie/Warehouse: Menagerie is enabled strongly by cards that allow you to discard selectively from your hand, but Warehouse gets a special mention because it's much, much better than other cards for enabling Menagerie decks. You can draw most of your deck without Copper trashing, you can green heavily and not really stall all that much, which are things you're hard-pressed to do with other discarders.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #77 on: April 06, 2015, 04:16:33 pm »
+5

Doctor/Fortress: Can draw you cards if there's no other way to do so. More realistically, Fortress makes your Doctor less of a dead card later.
There have been two times I have tried to use this as my only real draw. Pro tip: it doesn't work very well (somehow I think I actually won those games anyway, but yeah, not advised)

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #78 on: April 06, 2015, 04:18:06 pm »
0

Doctor/Fortress: Can draw you cards if there's no other way to do so. More realistically, Fortress makes your Doctor less of a dead card later.
There have been two times I have tried to use this as my only real draw. Pro tip: it doesn't work very well (somehow I think I actually won those games anyway, but yeah, not advised)

Hey there was one game I played a long time ago where I could keep playing Lookout later than normal because of Fortress, it was kind of nice.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #79 on: April 06, 2015, 04:19:56 pm »
+4

Storeroom/Philosopher's Stone. SR discards so it can push your PS, can sift through the junk you start with and the junk you might get, accellerates your deck and provides the buy you need to push PS and to actually make something of it.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #80 on: April 06, 2015, 04:28:01 pm »
+1

Here are two strong combos I saw recently that are probably well known, but that i had to learn about the hard way by losing to them.                           

Scheme/conspirator: simple. just get two schemes and have them topdeck themselves. Now your conspirators are always activated every turn. Example game: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150402/log.54485813e4b0342f4922b1e1.1428010853731.txt                                 

University/watchtower: play universities to gain actions and topdeck them with watchtower. Then play the watchtower to put the gained actions into your hand and play them with the plus actions provided by university. If you gain a second watchtower and some handsize decreasing actions, you may be able to do this more than once in a turn. Example game: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150406/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1428344689079.txt

EDIT: added example games now that I am on a home computer and can do things like that.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 05:27:51 pm by iguanaiguana »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #81 on: April 06, 2015, 06:10:28 pm »
+4

Quarry/Talisman: Relatively well-known, but the big bummer about Talisman is that it can't gain $5+ cards, and Quarry fixes that. Sure, other cost reduction works for this, but Quarry is also a treasure, stacks easily for Actions, and lets you get $6 cards too.

Related: Quarry/Grand Market.

Not sure if this one was mentioned, but this is a combo I miss very often. With just a little bit of trashing, lining up multiple Quarries is not too hard. Then Grand Markets with the +Buy creates a very nice feedback loop.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #82 on: April 06, 2015, 07:05:13 pm »
+4

Even without trashing, if there's engine potential, Quarry + GM is just nuts.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #83 on: April 07, 2015, 12:08:46 am »
+3

Even without trashing, if there's engine potential, Quarry + GM is just nuts.

Even without engine potential, Quarry + GM is most likely better than most other things you could be doing.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #84 on: April 09, 2015, 06:13:12 pm »
+3

Band of Misfits and Conspirator providing there are cheap cards that give + action.

Band of Misfits can then either be used to activate the Conspirator chain or as Conspirators themselves. This means you have a very good chance of getting the chain going each turn.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #85 on: April 17, 2015, 08:15:25 am »
0

Is it possible to get Fortress in the trash?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #86 on: April 17, 2015, 08:29:23 am »
+4

Stables and Crossroads - one of my favorite draw engines.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #87 on: April 17, 2015, 08:36:49 am »
0

Is it possible to get Fortress in the trash?

For that to be possible, you would need an effect that trashes cards by itself, without instructing a player to do so (so "your hand" in "put it into your hand" is not defined), or an effect that sends cards to the trash without trashing them. I don't think either exists.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #88 on: April 17, 2015, 09:15:28 am »
0

I don't know about perma-trashing fortress, but i still find stuff for this thread when i'm playing games.

Hunting party/Altar. Buy altar on your first 6 hand, almost certainly. Hunting party will repeatedly put it in your hand with an estate, which you can trash for a hunting party. You will have double hunting party turns, and the altar will quickly eliminate estates from your deck, meaning hunting party will trip on it instead of them. After this is done, on a worst case scenario the altar can start turning copper into silver, but probably in most kingdoms there is a better target card than silver once the hunting parties are out.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 12:11:15 pm by iguanaiguana »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #89 on: April 17, 2015, 11:37:32 am »
0

Is it possible to get Fortress in the trash?

If a card said, "Place x in the trash" and a Fortress was in x, that would work.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #90 on: April 17, 2015, 12:06:15 pm »
+1

Can we make a "Lame and certainly useless card interactions" thread?

Poor House + Copper
Death Cart + Silver
Forge + Gardens
Smithy + Hunting Party
Crossroads + Necropolis
Scout + anything
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #91 on: April 17, 2015, 12:28:18 pm »
+4

*sigh*

Let's try to keep this thread on topic, please  :)

Council Room/Pillage: Council Room vastly increases the potency of Pillage's attack, the chances of you hitting a hand that was bad anyways decrease quite a lot. You can also play multiple Pillages on your opponent in a turn which is much more potent as well (though that's probably only feasible with Throne Room and the like). Plus, the draw and buys that Council Room gives you help you make use of the Spoils you get.

Very few times do I consider Pillage to be a legitimate attack, but Council Room is probably the best enabler out there.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #92 on: April 17, 2015, 02:59:56 pm »
+5

Governor/Black Market/Minion

I've only pulled this one off once, but the idea is as follows:

Play a village (doesn't matter which one)
Play multiple Governors for +3 cards
Play Black Market, dumping all your Treasure on the table
Play Minion for the discard attack *opponent discards his huge hand for a random four-card hand*
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #93 on: April 17, 2015, 03:32:49 pm »
0

Governor/Black Market/Minion

I've only pulled this one off once, but the idea is as follows:

Play a village (doesn't matter which one)
Play multiple Governors for +3 cards
Play Black Market, dumping all your Treasure on the table
Play Minion for the discard attack *opponent discards his huge hand for a random four-card hand*

Any opponent draw (Council Room, Governor, etc.) + any discard-to-x work.  Example:
http://gokosalvager.com/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20150319/log.51201cbee4b04e88c8da4f9a.1426811891226.txt
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150319/log.51201cbee4b04e88c8da4f9a.1426811891226.txt
(Okay, ya got me, all I really wanted to do was show a game where I beat Mic Q.)

But I can see how Minion is usually even more brutal than, say, Margrave because it doesn't let them choose which cards to keep.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #94 on: April 17, 2015, 03:34:28 pm »
+3

Governor/Black Market/Minion

I've only pulled this one off once, but the idea is as follows:

Play a village (doesn't matter which one)
Play multiple Governors for +3 cards
Play Black Market, dumping all your Treasure on the table
Play Minion for the discard attack *opponent discards his huge hand for a random four-card hand*

Any opponent draw (Council Room, Governor, etc.) + any discard-to-x work.  Example:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150319/log.51201cbee4b04e88c8da4f9a.1426811891226.txt
(Okay, ya got me, all I really wanted to do was show a game where I beat Mic Q.)

But I can see how Minion is usually even more brutal than, say, Margrave because it doesn't let them choose which cards to keep.

When someone has that plan working against you: Moat. (Useful defense is a useful interaction, yeah?) You are more likely to be defended than normal, given your increased handsize, and you're getting a bigger benefit than normal.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #95 on: April 17, 2015, 03:52:27 pm »
+2

Governor/Black Market/Minion

I've only pulled this one off once, but the idea is as follows:

Play a village (doesn't matter which one)
Play multiple Governors for +3 cards
Play Black Market, dumping all your Treasure on the table
Play Minion for the discard attack *opponent discards his huge hand for a random four-card hand*

Any opponent draw (Council Room, Governor, etc.) + any discard-to-x work.  Example:
http://gokosalvager.com/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20150319/log.51201cbee4b04e88c8da4f9a.1426811891226.txt
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150319/log.51201cbee4b04e88c8da4f9a.1426811891226.txt
(Okay, ya got me, all I really wanted to do was show a game where I beat Mic Q.)

But I can see how Minion is usually even more brutal than, say, Margrave because it doesn't let them choose which cards to keep.

It also gives you a chance to draw up your newly bought Black Market cards if you're able to overdraw!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #96 on: April 17, 2015, 03:57:29 pm »
+2

Governor/Black Market/Minion

I've only pulled this one off once, but the idea is as follows:

Play a village (doesn't matter which one)
Play multiple Governors for +3 cards
Play Black Market, dumping all your Treasure on the table
Play Minion for the discard attack *opponent discards his huge hand for a random four-card hand*

It's not surprising that you've only pulled it off once, it requires three specific cards in a kingdom and kingdoms with three specific cards in them are incredibly rare.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #97 on: April 17, 2015, 04:00:43 pm »
0

Governor/Black Market/Minion

I've only pulled this one off once, but the idea is as follows:

Play a village (doesn't matter which one)
Play multiple Governors for +3 cards
Play Black Market, dumping all your Treasure on the table
Play Minion for the discard attack *opponent discards his huge hand for a random four-card hand*

It's not surprising that you've only pulled it off once, it requires three specific cards in a kingdom and kingdoms with three specific cards in them are incredibly rare.
Well, the Minion could be in the Black Market deck. (It wasn't, but it could have been.)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #98 on: April 17, 2015, 05:22:51 pm »
+4

Scrying Pool + Saboteur
Scrying Pool + Knights


Use the spying attack to discard your opponents' cards until you spy something you want to trash. Province or Duchy? Or their key engine card, perhaps? In this situation, you may want to keep playing Scrying Pools even if you aren't drawing any cards.

Similarly, Scrying Pool + Tribute. Look for the card type you want to flip.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #99 on: April 17, 2015, 05:59:27 pm »
+4

Scrying Pool + Saboteur
Scrying Pool + Knights


Scrying Pool + Swindler

Keep cards on top you want to hit. After the Scrying Pools run out you can use Swindler to trash remove Scrying Pools after leaving them on top of their deck (and there's probably no other $2P card on the board, so they won't even get anything in return).
« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 04:20:21 pm by JW »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #100 on: April 17, 2015, 06:58:17 pm »
+1

^ Also works with Spy if Scrying Pool is unavailable.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #101 on: April 17, 2015, 09:15:10 pm »
+5

^ Also works with Spy if Scrying Pool is unavailable.

Well except that spy sucks
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #102 on: April 18, 2015, 12:03:14 pm »
0

Scrying Pool + Saboteur
Scrying Pool + Knights


Scrying Pool + Swindler

Keep cards on top you want to hit. After the Scrying Pools run out you can use Swindler to remove Scrying Pools from their deck (and there's probably no other $2P card on the board, so they won't even get anything in return).

I feel like the margin of benefit for you minus the benefit for him in removing Scrying Pools from the game (instead of Swindling one of his other cards) is negligible at best, under almost all scenarios.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #103 on: April 18, 2015, 12:58:16 pm »
+1

A couple simple ones:

Feodum + Raid:  play many Silver, buy Raid, get many Silvers, profit.
Band of Misfits + Ferry:  Place -2 cost token on Goons or Grand Market or other strong 6-cost card.  Then play Band of Misfits as the card with the reduced cost.

Ferry + Workshop/Armory/Ironworks:  Place -2 cost token on Goons or Grand Market or other strong 5- or 6-cost card.  Then use the gainer to gain the card with the reduced cost.  (Add 7- cost cards if Altar or Feast is in play.)


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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #104 on: April 18, 2015, 02:40:27 pm »
+7

Province and Gold.

The Provinces give you VP while the Gold supplies you with the coins for other important cards like Chapel, which is actually a really good card.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #105 on: April 18, 2015, 03:03:05 pm »
+2

Scrying Pool + Saboteur
Scrying Pool + Knights


Scrying Pool + Swindler

Keep cards on top you want to hit. After the Scrying Pools run out you can use Swindler to remove Scrying Pools from their deck (and there's probably no other $2P card on the board, so they won't even get anything in return).

A similar concept; if you can reliably insert Fortune Teller -> Saboteur into an engine and play it every turn, it can make for devastating and consistent end-game VP trashing.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #106 on: April 18, 2015, 08:36:51 pm »
+1

A similar concept; if you can reliably insert Fortune Teller -> Saboteur into an engine and play it every turn, it can make for devastating and consistent end-game VP trashing.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #107 on: April 18, 2015, 08:47:39 pm »
0

Ferry + Grand Market -- it's significantly easier to get to $4 without Copper than it is to get to $6 without Copper.

Ferry + Trashing attack -- place the -$2 cost token on Province or some other juicy target that is normally too expensive to hit.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #108 on: April 18, 2015, 09:09:26 pm »
+2

Ferry + Trashing attack -- place the -$2 cost token on Province or some other juicy target that is normally too expensive to hit.

Ferry only works on Actions.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #109 on: April 18, 2015, 09:11:47 pm »
0

Ferry + Trashing attack -- place the -$2 cost token on Province or some other juicy target that is normally too expensive to hit.

Ferry only works on Actions.

Oops.  So scratch Province and only have it on some other juicy target... I guess there are fewer of those, but there are still some!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #110 on: April 19, 2015, 04:43:25 am »
0

Ferry + Trashing attack -- place the -$2 cost token on Province or some other juicy target that is normally too expensive to hit.

Ferry only works on Actions.

Oops.  So scratch Province and only have it on some other juicy target... I guess there are fewer of those, but there are still some!

Where is the full list of cards?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #111 on: April 19, 2015, 09:04:25 am »
0

Alternatively, use Ferry on a key $4 or $3 to protect it from trashing Attacks. Never mind, doesn't work.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #112 on: April 19, 2015, 09:10:29 am »
0

Ferry + Trashing attack -- place the -$2 cost token on Province or some other juicy target that is normally too expensive to hit.

Ferry only works on Actions.

Oops.  So scratch Province and only have it on some other juicy target... I guess there are fewer of those, but there are still some!

For Knights, Rogue, and Giant, you'd almost always be targeting a $7 card, since the $8 cards aren't be too great to go after anyway. So King's Court most likely. For Warrior, you'd go after a $5 or $6 card; there are plenty of good targets among those.

This does bring to mind the caveat that if you wanted to Ferry a $3 or $4 card, you'd be protecting your opponents' copies of it.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #113 on: April 19, 2015, 10:42:05 am »
0

Ferry + Trashing attack -- place the -$2 cost token on Province or some other juicy target that is normally too expensive to hit.

Ferry only works on Actions.

Oops.  So scratch Province and only have it on some other juicy target... I guess there are fewer of those, but there are still some!

Where is the full list of cards?
I'm guessing you missed the Rules Online thread?

I think and 5-cost you want multiples of would be good.
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ConMan

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #114 on: April 20, 2015, 03:10:54 am »
+2

Prince + Inheritance - if there's a card you really want to Prince, then you can use Inheritance to imprint your Estates and now you suddenly have three more copies of it in your deck, thus greatly improving the chance you'll collide it with Prince. In addition, if you have an unreliable cost-reducer (or one where it's hard to play the reducer before playing Prince), then you can apply it in one turn to let your Estates Inherit, then you need never worry about whether you'll be able to get the cost down when you need to since the Estates cost $2!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #115 on: April 20, 2015, 03:40:42 am »
+2

This is probably obvious, but Prince and Ferry. Now, you can play Rebuild or Mountebank every turn or GM whatever. Hell, how does this sound, Ferry and anything else. The Event is just nuts crazy insane.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #116 on: April 20, 2015, 03:45:48 am »
+1

Or beyond awesome, as some will call it
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #117 on: April 20, 2015, 10:47:15 am »
+1

Rebuild and Mountebank don't actually sound like great Prince targets, as powerful as they are.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #118 on: April 20, 2015, 11:56:33 am »
+3

Pardon my frustration.

One day, long ago I had a dream. This dream was that there would be a thread full of little combos that people could read through and add to their mental checklists so their game might improve.

Part of my dream was that these combos would appear in actual games of Dominion that were played. This probably means that they require only two cards to pull off. The odds of seeing three particular cards in a kingdom these days are extremely unlikely, and so they are much less useful. How much less useful? About 200 times less useful. Even requiring a village or additional draw or a category of cards to be useful is speculative. Three-or-more card combos get less and less worth talking about every day as more cards are added to the game, it's been said a lot but I'll say it again: the best place to talk about these interactions is probably in Game Reports or maybe Puzzles.

Hey, we just found a card from Adventures that reduces cost! WWWHOOAOAOAOAHAHAHAH!!! HOLY FUDGE BARS! Look at all the cool things we can break with it! The place for a list of all the cool Ferry interactions is probably a new thread on Ferry. Why? Because the dream wasn't to talk about all the mediocre combos with one particular card, the dream was to find the cream-of-the-crop pairs of cards, those special long-lost lovers who, when united, produce beautiful music far beyond what they could do alone; music that nobody else in the world could create.

If the combo is really [type of card] + [one particular card] and not two particular cards, then it should probably be presented as such (but again, the discussion on that probably belongs in a thread about the particular card). Maybe one particular card in [type of card] is way way better than the rest of its type so it's worth talking about here. Example: Quarry is probably the best cost-reducer for Stonemason because it's easy to get in play and have Stonemason take advantage of it. Stonemason is probably the best gainer for Quarry (yeah yeah Talisman whatever) because most gainers have trouble taking advantage of Quarry's cost reduction, but not Stonemason. The music, it's so beautiful! It's almost as good as TSwift's latest jam <3 <3

If your combo involves a type of card, and they're all really interchangeable, then that discussion really has to do with the particular card. Not with this list. If one shining example of your card type is really really good, that's what we're looking for. Talk about the category and then say why this particular card is better. Sure a flute sounds good with strings, but it was the flute+viola duet that brought tears of joy to my eyes.

Pardon my frustration again.

Adventures was released to the public two days ago. How many games could any given person have possibly played with these cards to legitimately think that Adventures card combos are as good as the other combos here? "But Adam I played a Ferry+GM game and it was AMAZEBALLZ!" but there are tons of other cards Ferry is good with. Have you played with all of them? How do you know it's the special music between these two cards when you've been playing with Ferry for two days. I've been playing with the Adventures cards for 10 months and I still feel like that isn't nearly enough. Not even close. How can you know that flute+viola is so magical when you don't even know what a flute sounds like?

Yeah that frustration applies to articles too I guess. Forgive me but any article on an Adventures card that's posted this year, I'm just not going to take seriously. Jack was out for 3 years before I felt comfortable writing an article about it. But this is all my personal opinion. I should be whining about this thread only because my opinion actually kind of matters here.

I'm sorry for my frustration, but there are just so many more people here that are taking this thread in 55 different directions than the few that try to steer it back. My arms are sore.

OK I'm done complaining now. Carry on with your discussions.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #119 on: April 20, 2015, 12:04:35 pm »
+10

Bear in mind you called this thread "Neat and potentially useful card interactions".  You did not call it "List of combos sensu stricto".  So, I think most of this are thinking of it as "oo, this seems interesting" rather than "THESE TWO CARDS EAT SPAGHETTI 'NEATH THE GIBBOUS MOON".
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #120 on: April 20, 2015, 12:09:13 pm »
+1

What you say is not incorrect, I'm just trying to isolate the things that make this thread go off-topic and try to fix them. If that means branching off things that spawn unrelated discussions and/or attempting to prevent them from doing so, then sure, let's do that.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #121 on: April 20, 2015, 12:24:05 pm »
+1

I like this thread a lot and want it to keep going more or less the way adam wants it to as well. Not sure who else feels that way. Adam, what if you made a list of posts that you feel fit the criterion and keep that updated on the first post. That way, there can be tangents in the thread itself but the worthwhile posts are all still together and easy to read.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #122 on: April 20, 2015, 12:27:48 pm »
+3

I mean yeah I could do that, and I probabily will end up doing it. But I'd rather people be able to talk about a topic seriously on the forums. Partially because that's less work for me, partially because I don't want to have to decide what is "good enough" because that makes me an authority on the subject (which I'm not). And partially because I want to see good threads in the future that don't get sidetracked and then just die sadly.

Sorry if I sound grumpy but I guess I kind of am. Humbug. Uhh, let me say something silly to lighten the mood.

Woozle wuzzle?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #123 on: April 20, 2015, 12:28:42 pm »
+6

Bear in mind you called this thread "Neat and potentially useful card interactions".  You did not call it "List of combos sensu stricto".  So, I think most of this are thinking of it as "oo, this seems interesting" rather than "THESE TWO CARDS EAT SPAGHETTI 'NEATH THE GIBBOUS MOON".

I'm going to agree with Wero here that the thread title does not convey your declared vision in your last post, Adam. I suggest that if you were to start a thread called "Primo combos" or whatever and clarify in the OP that you wanted the very best two-card combos that people had actually played with, you might have results more to your liking. I do agree that people tend to get a little over-excited about declaring combos with new cards, and I understand your frustrations with things going off in tangents.

Also, I would recommend editing the worthy combos into the OP every so often. That will help to fulfill your vision of a succinct list for people to read.

PPE: ninja'd on the last point.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #124 on: April 20, 2015, 12:30:47 pm »
+2

I'm pretty sure that if this thread had a [serious] tag, the OP would have the right to delete your 'woozle wuzzle' remark :P
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #125 on: April 20, 2015, 12:31:09 pm »
+2

I'd post more combos here but everything I know is either well-known, or very gimmicky.

Here's a gimmicky one: Journeyman + Native village can psuedotrash your provinces.
And two mundane ones: Hoard + Counterfeit. Rebuild + Oasis.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 12:32:10 pm by pubby »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #126 on: April 20, 2015, 12:31:33 pm »
+4

I think you're being a bit too exacting here.  The thread is titled "neat and potentially useful card interactions", which neither suggests that they have to be exactly two specific cards or that they have to form an actual ultimate combo. 

In your OP you mention Doctor/FG which doesn't seem to fit your strict requirements.

Later on you post CR/Pillage.  That requires a village.  Oh no, overly speculative 3-card combo! I guess you could replace CR with Governor draw but now it's not a unique interaction, oops.

If you want to limit it to hyper-specific 2 card combos, this thread is going to see much less activity.  If you didn't want to have theoretical combos (which may involve new Adventures cards), you probably shouldn't have asked for potentially useful interactions.

I get your frustration, but definitely think that you're being a lot grumpier than warranted.

PPE: ninja'd
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #127 on: April 20, 2015, 12:36:51 pm »
+1

I'd post more combos here but everything I know is either well-known, or very gimmicky.

Here's a gimmicky one: Journeyman + Native village can psuedotrash your provinces.
And two mundane ones: Hoard + Counterfeit. Rebuild + Oasis.

Journeyman doesn't topdeck, so how does that work?

And I hope you mean to Counterfeit your surplus Gold because Counterfeited Hoard won't gain you anything.

Oasis is fine with Rebuild but I wouldn't call it out as a combo.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #128 on: April 20, 2015, 12:37:44 pm »
+3

I will not argue that my idealism has been misplaced. I sort of thought people knew how to talk about Dominion perfectly and would see my examples and realize what the spirit of this thread was and never go off-topic. I didn't really want to close off the discussion to only power-combos that make beautiful music, but "what else can I do to keep discussion on track?"

And yes there are answers here that come short of "make a serious tag and be a real hard-patootie about it" which is exactly what I was looking for. So +1s for all of you. Yeah I guess I should just suck it up and do those things.

But I feel like I get to whine about it and then be mildly sorry for whining about it. I'm not perfect.
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pubby

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #129 on: April 20, 2015, 12:38:41 pm »
0

Journeyman doesn't topdeck, so how does that work?
Put the provinces in your discard while drawing your deck and then NV them.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #130 on: April 20, 2015, 12:40:20 pm »
+1

Adventures was released to the public two days ago. How many games could any given person have possibly played with these cards to legitimately think that Adventures card combos are as good as the other combos here? "But Adam I played a Ferry+GM game and it was AMAZEBALLZ!" but there are tons of other cards Ferry is good with. Have you played with all of them? How do you know it's the special music between these two cards when you've been playing with Ferry for two days. I've been playing with the Adventures cards for 10 months and I still feel like that isn't nearly enough. Not even close. How can you know that flute+viola is so magical when you don't even know what a flute sounds like?

Surely this is a bit of an exaggeration? If before posting about a combo, you must have tried both cards separately with all other cards they could supposedly go well with, nobody will ever post anything. As you yourself said, there's just too many cards...

I'm all for keeping this thread useful, but I am confused as to what is expected of it.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #131 on: April 20, 2015, 12:42:12 pm »
0

I don't understand the fuss over Adventures speculation when this thread specifically calls for "potentially useful" interactions.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #132 on: April 20, 2015, 12:43:12 pm »
+1

Surely this is a bit of an exaggeration? If before posting about a combo, you must have tried both cards separately with all other cards they could supposedly go well with, nobody will ever post anything. As you yourself said, there's just too many cards...

I'll be first to admit that I'm probably much more skeptical of everything in life than most people on this board. But no, it's not an exaggeration of my own personal feelings.

I'm all for keeping this thread useful, but I am confused as to what is expected of it.

Me too, brah. Me too.  :-\
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #133 on: April 20, 2015, 12:43:59 pm »
+1

Journeyman doesn't topdeck, so how does that work?
Put the provinces in your discard while drawing your deck and then NV them.

OK, but now you're asking for a lot of support from other cards.  I don't think NV/Catacombs alone is going to reliably draw your deck. At the least you want another village lest NV put away important cards during interim plays.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #134 on: April 20, 2015, 02:18:02 pm »
0

Over the weekend I noticed Ill-Gotten Gains seems to have a symbiotic relationship with Mercenary.

With Mercenary the deck thinning and + 2 cards means you draw your Ill-Gotten Gains more often.
Which means you are more likely to hit 5 on that turn, as when needed you gain extra coppers with IGG.
Those extra coppers are then fuel to play Mercenary again.

Plus as well as clogging your opponents deck with curses you know have a discard attack.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #135 on: April 20, 2015, 02:39:58 pm »
+1

Over the weekend I noticed Ill-Gotten Gains seems to have a symbiotic relationship with Mercenary.

With Mercenary the deck thinning and + 2 cards means you draw your Ill-Gotten Gains more often.
Which means you are more likely to hit 5 on that turn, as when needed you gain extra coppers with IGG.
Those extra coppers are then fuel to play Mercenary again.

Plus as well as clogging your opponents deck with curses you know have a discard attack.

I wouldn't put Merc+IGG as a particularly neat combo because...
If you have a Merc, doesn't your opponent often have one as well?  In which case, they're making you discard down to 3 about just as often.  And the curses you're giving them are fuel for their Merc.  Of course, if you're the only one with a Merc, or your Merc comes up at better times based on whatever shuffle luck, then your opponents will often tremble, no matter the kingdom.
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xyz123

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #136 on: April 20, 2015, 03:10:04 pm »
0

Over the weekend I noticed Ill-Gotten Gains seems to have a symbiotic relationship with Mercenary.

With Mercenary the deck thinning and + 2 cards means you draw your Ill-Gotten Gains more often.
Which means you are more likely to hit 5 on that turn, as when needed you gain extra coppers with IGG.
Those extra coppers are then fuel to play Mercenary again.

Plus as well as clogging your opponents deck with curses you know have a discard attack.

I wouldn't put Merc+IGG as a particularly neat combo because...
If you have a Merc, doesn't your opponent often have one as well?  In which case, they're making you discard down to 3 about just as often.  And the curses you're giving them are fuel for their Merc.  Of course, if you're the only one with a Merc, or your Merc comes up at better times based on whatever shuffle luck, then your opponents will often tremble, no matter the kingdom.

It surprised me how well it worked. My opponent did have one as well. I did have some luck in that the turn after I got my first Merc I had a reshuffle and drew my other Urchin and Merc together so I was hitting him twice as frequently. He also didn't go for the IGG rush. He tried some money strategy so was probably hurt more by my attacks then I was by his. Also I am only around the mid 3,000s on Goko so it is unlikely either of us were playing anything like the optimal strategy.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 03:13:44 pm by xyz123 »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #137 on: April 20, 2015, 03:17:22 pm »
+1

I usually just IGG-nore IGG whenever there's any halfway decent trashing. In this case, I think Mercenary+Big Money might just beat Mercenary+IGG+Big Money. Of course this is rarely ever going to actually be the case but you catch my drift.
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Gherald

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #138 on: April 20, 2015, 03:27:27 pm »
+1

Right, Urchin/Mercenary is a reason to not bother with IGG.  They don't synergize, they anti-synergize, because in the face of an IGG buyer your opponent will get 2 mercenaries and have no trouble using their $5+ buys on something better than IGG.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #139 on: April 20, 2015, 03:55:30 pm »
+1

Thanks for the replies.

Being corrected like this is what I was hoping to get out of the forum. I thought I had found something good but the reality sounds more like it was just not as bad as what my opponent was doing.

 8)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #140 on: April 20, 2015, 04:10:19 pm »
+1

Tangents like this are super-productive. <3 <3 <3 It's why this place is so awesome.

GWAAAAH I'm so conflicted!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #141 on: April 20, 2015, 05:27:52 pm »
+8

Tangents like this are super-productive. <3 <3 <3 It's why this place is so awesome.

GWAAAAH I'm so conflicted!

this wasn't a tangent. someone proposed an idea directly related to the thread title. someone else directly debated the idea (not edge-casing it) and others thoughtfully weighed the arguments; the original proposer concluded that there may have been an error.

(on the other hand these two posts of ours form a mini-tangent.)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #142 on: April 20, 2015, 05:56:39 pm »
0

On the tangent topic of Ill-Gotten Gains, I remember one game I played against a bot with IGG + Trader + Feodum, and it all seemed to work out very nicely.  Of course, Trader synergizes with Feodum on its own, but trashing IGGs for 5 Silvers is cool; plus Trader itself is a partial IGG defense.  I'm not sure of the practicality of this in a real game, though (i.e., against a live opponent). 
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #143 on: April 20, 2015, 06:04:58 pm »
0

IGG can also pick up Silvers in the presence of Trader, although you'd probably be better off trashing IGG when they collide.

However, it's worth bearing in mind that Trader, unlike Watchtower, stops IGG from taking Curses out of the Supply, so if even one IGG gets blocked the Curses won't get emptied. This may not be a concern, though, if you're going against the usual rush style of IGG, which you probably are with Feodum. Of course, I feel like this raises questions about the use of IGG in the first place.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #144 on: April 20, 2015, 06:16:31 pm »
+5

Adam, one idea if you want a list of the cream of the crop 2-card combos is to do a Qvist-like ranking of them. You could start a thread saying, "Hey guys, name 50 useful 2-card combos", and then get people to vote for the most useful, then maintain a list of the best 20, then periodically iterate by adding new combos to the list to be voted on.

Yeah it's a bit of work and it may be that no one has the time and motivation to do it. But I think it's the way to achieve what you're trying to achieve.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #145 on: April 20, 2015, 08:42:17 pm »
+1

Adam, one idea if you want a list of the cream of the crop 2-card combos is to do a Qvist-like ranking of them. You could start a thread saying, "Hey guys, name 50 useful 2-card combos", and then get people to vote for the most useful, then maintain a list of the best 20, then periodically iterate by adding new combos to the list to be voted on.

Yeah it's a bit of work and it may be that no one has the time and motivation to do it. But I think it's the way to achieve what you're trying to achieve.

I like this idea.

NV/Bridge
Royal Carriage/Bridge
KC/Bridge
MS/Hermit
MS/Apprentice
Governor + hand size reducer
KC/Masq + hand size reducer

That's all I have for now
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #146 on: April 20, 2015, 09:31:18 pm »
+1

Royal Carriage/Bridge

Can playtesters confirm this to be a respectable 2-card combo?  My instinct says that you usually won't be able to get enough RCs bought and into your tavern quickly enough for this to succeed.  Note, I totally think that this plan is viable with other support, but I don't think it will be a combo on its own.

Or maybe you are just pointing it out as a significant synergy, like "Governor + hand size reducer".  Even then I am uncertain; there are plenty of other ways to get multiple Bridges in play (like, say, TR-Bridge, or Village-Bridge, heh).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #147 on: April 20, 2015, 10:00:56 pm »
+1

Adam, one idea if you want a list of the cream of the crop 2-card combos is to do a Qvist-like ranking of them. You could start a thread saying, "Hey guys, name 50 useful 2-card combos", and then get people to vote for the most useful, then maintain a list of the best 20, then periodically iterate by adding new combos to the list to be voted on.

Yeah it's a bit of work and it may be that no one has the time and motivation to do it. But I think it's the way to achieve what you're trying to achieve.

This is actually a really good idea. I think someone should do it, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the right guy for the job.

The discussion here has caused me to think about what I wanted from this thread originally. I wanted to sleep on it to help me decide, since as you can tell I'm sort of flailing today when I was presented with some helpful feedback.

Royal Carriage/Bridge
Can playtesters confirm this to be a respectable 2-card combo?

It's about as much of a thing as Throne Room/Bridge is, only slightly better.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #148 on: April 20, 2015, 10:30:56 pm »
0

IGG can also pick up Silvers in the presence of Trader, although you'd probably be better off trashing IGG when they collide.

However, it's worth bearing in mind that Trader, unlike Watchtower, stops IGG from taking Curses out of the Supply, so if even one IGG gets blocked the Curses won't get emptied. This may not be a concern, though, if you're going against the usual rush style of IGG, which you probably are with Feodum. Of course, I feel like this raises questions about the use of IGG in the first place.

Yeah, but then again, grabbing IGGs forces the opponent to deal with the curses in some way (which could be Trader itself).  But, getting a bunch of IGGs and then a bunch of feoda is kind of slow.. I think it may have only worked because the bot did something silly that just wasn't competitive.  I think Silvers and Feoda emptied.. or Foeda IGGs and Curses, and I had almost all the Silvers.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #149 on: April 20, 2015, 10:35:13 pm »
0

So how much is Guide/Outpost actually a combo?  Is it good enough that when both of them are on the table, it's a decent enough strategy to just go for them?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #150 on: April 20, 2015, 11:54:33 pm »
+4

Royal Carriage/Bridge

Can playtesters confirm this to be a respectable 2-card combo?  My instinct says that you usually won't be able to get enough RCs bought and into your tavern quickly enough for this to succeed.  Note, I totally think that this plan is viable with other support, but I don't think it will be a combo on its own.

I know it's not particularly scientific, but I decided to run a single simulation of this. I bought 2 Bridges then Silvers, with obviously Royal Carriages on 5. On turn 9 I managed to buy 4 Carriages by calling the two that I had. After that I bought a couple more Bridges while loading up my Tavern, then an Estate and a Duchy while waiting for a Bridge, and finally bought 8 Provinces on turn 16.

I then tried it with Chapel, holding on to 1 Bridge, 1 Silver and 1 Copper as well as the Chapel, and bought the Provinces on turn 15.

I then tried it with Horse Traders and bought the Provinces on turn 18.

So based purely on these single games, I'd speculate that Bridge/Royal Carriage is competitive with say BM+Smithy, so long as you get a mini-megaturn, Bridge/Royal Carriage/Chapel is a bit better, and Bridge/Royal Carriage/Horse Traders isn't as good as it sounds, since even though you are getting to $5 often, it takes too long to get them in your Tavern. What you want is to get 2 RCs, then call them both on a Bridge to get 3-4 more in one turn.

For the record, as long as you get there in time, this will beat 5 Provinces or 4 Provinces and 3 Duchies, and in fact should do even better since there will often be 'wasted' turns near the end where you just buy a Duchy or Estate because there's nothing else to do.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 11:53:55 am by Jimmmmm »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #151 on: April 21, 2015, 12:43:32 pm »
+2

I wanted to sleep on it to help me decide

As promised, here is my spiel.

So when I look at a board, one of the things I do is look for combos. Yeah there's the big stuff like NV/Bridge, Hermit/Market Square, those you just build your whole deck around. But then there are other ones like Apprentice/Fortress, FV/Wharf, Apothecary/NV, Tactician/Black Market, and lot of the stuff mentioned here -- synergies strong enough that even though they don't dictate all of your strategy, they are incorporated strongly into it.

The way to get better at knowing these explosive synergies is to just know about them. I thought a thread that lists a bunch of these good ones would be useful.

So that's what I wanted from this thread. Anything else I've said was just a (probably misguided) attempt to keep the discussion from going off to some other direction.

So like, what is the right thing to do here? I kind of hoped that the community could just have an on-topic discussion without the need for me to moderate it and someone could just scroll down the pages and read lots of really cool tidbits of knowledge. Instead, they have to weed through a bunch of sarcastic suggestions, or maybe some suggestions that turned out to not be so good after some discussion. Whether or not I like that is irrelevant, that's what's going to happen.

So in order to have the resource I wanted, what I'm supposed to do is not only try to keep discussion on track, but find the combos that were deemed "good enough" and compile them on a list in the OP. As you can see, I'm bad at that. Because I'm bad at it, I'm less motivated to do it because it frustrates me -- all for personal reasons that are totally irrelevant. If I'm going to contribute to the community, I should just do what I'm good at, which is probably making videos. And not doing this.

Maybe there are some other people who are more motivated to do that. Sure, they should go ahead and do it, I certainly won't be offended. I'll even contribute when I think it's meaningful.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #152 on: April 21, 2015, 12:52:06 pm »
+2

I think the first thing you should do is change the title of the thread.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #153 on: April 21, 2015, 12:55:21 pm »
0

I think the first thing you should do is change the title of the thread.

Yes,

and I'd be happy to compile a list of constructive additions to the thread thus far.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #154 on: April 21, 2015, 01:02:10 pm »
+2

I would say "keeping the discussion on track" is not a useful endeavor: what if some deemed "off track" discussion leads to useful insight?  Also, there are things to be learned from "bad" ideas or suggestions as much as "good" ones.  Maybe someone didn't understand why an apparently synergy seems to antisynergize because of some misunderstanding of lack of understanding of some aspect of Dominion, but after some criticism and discussion, they come out enlightened, and that's a good thing. 

I think it would be useful to edit into the OP the ones that seem good, as you've said.  Though, that does takes some time/effort, and it's okay if you're not up for that. 

PPE: Hooray community.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #155 on: April 21, 2015, 01:11:42 pm »
0

I'm happy to do things now, but the ongoing work is not the stuff I'm good at.

I wouldn't know what to change the thread title to, and someone other than me should be able to edit that post as new things come up. So maybe the answer is just to start another thread?

So the ones I liked:

Quarry and Stonemason: When playing Quarry, the price of Stonemason reduces to zero, so the normal "quarry gives +$2 if you're buying one action" and "you need $2 extra to get the extra action with Stonemason" becomes much better. You get cost reduction on both the Stonemason you buy AND on the overpay!

Apothecary and Shanty Town: Any top-deck interaction will help you trigger your Shanty Towns more, this is true; but I think Apothecary stands to benefit the most from this, as it can get a lot out of using Shanty Towns early to draw your green and pushing your terminals off until later in the turn when you've got the actions to play them and trigger future Shanty Towns.

Doctor and Fool's Gold: These two have a troubled relationship, that's for sure. Fool's Gold is a card that can provide you high-income hands very early, which can lead to very beneficial Doctor overpays if you're paying close attention.

Highway and Horn of Plenty: You don't need to worry about having enough unique cards with Highway around, every Highway you play effectively counts as a unique card since it reduces the cost of whatever you're going to gain.

...and some of the more standard ones:

Highway and Ironworks Cost-reducers and gainers synergize, for sure, but these two probably deserve a special mention. Highway and Ironworks are both non-terminal so it's very easy to get lots of them to increase your chances of collision, and spamming these cards can be a way to get lots of power-$5 cards very quickly.

University and Inn: The best thing I can think of for this is that every time you have a Uni in hand, think about gaining an Inn. It's probably amazing. Sure it isn't worth it without some kind of draw, but thinking about this will have you doing much better than the other guy who doesn't.

Mint and Apprentice: Trash your coppers, reload your fuel.
University and Apprentice: Similar
University and City: empties piles easy.

Chancellor/Scavenger and Hunting Party: On an otherwise weak board with Hunting Party, you typically want to avoid cantrips like Caravan. However, if the best terminal on the board is Chancellor or Scavenger, this is a non-issue. (This doubles as an edge case where Chancellor > Scavenger. Unfortunately, it's rare.)

Ghost Ship/Wishing Well - you can guarantee a hit after getting hit by a Ghost Ship attack, which mitigates a lot of the attack. Similarly, Farming Villages lets you topdeck Victory cards and skip right past them

Ghost Ship/Fortune Teller - if you can play both in 1 turn, you deny allowing the opponent to topdeck good cards, and mess up the previous Well and/or FV interaction. You may allow them to topdeck Coppers which get discarded though, so be careful (want to make sure they at least have 1 Victory card in their deck.)

Develop/Herald - You can guarantee a Herald hit since the action you want to hit can be placed 2nd from the top.

An interaction I like is Courtyard/Native Village. Not great for increasing handsize, but having them both in your engine deck ensures you can set the green cards you gain aside on the NV mat every turn. Similar to how Apothecary/Native Village works, but you can set aside the green cards in your starting hand too.

Swindler/Peddler: If the Peddlers are likely to run out, your Swindlers could end up turning opponents' Peddlers into Provinces; otherwise they could turn their Provinces into Peddlers.

Counterfeit/Fool's Gold is a fun and potentially useful one

BM+Poor House - play BM and all the treasures with it, thus maximizing the worth of your Poor Houses

Here are two strong combos I saw recently that are probably well known, but that i had to learn about the hard way by losing to them.                           

Scheme/conspirator: simple. just get two schemes and have them topdeck themselves. Now your conspirators are always activated every turn. Example game: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150402/log.54485813e4b0342f4922b1e1.1428010853731.txt                                 

University/watchtower: play universities to gain actions and topdeck them with watchtower. Then play the watchtower to put the gained actions into your hand and play them with the plus actions provided by university. If you gain a second watchtower and some handsize decreasing actions, you may be able to do this more than once in a turn. Example game: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150406/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1428344689079.txt

Quarry/Grand Market.

Not sure if this one was mentioned, but this is a combo I miss very often. With just a little bit of trashing, lining up multiple Quarries is not too hard. Then Grand Markets with the +Buy creates a very nice feedback loop.

Stables and Crossroads - one of my favorite draw engines.

Council Room/Pillage: Council Room vastly increases the potency of Pillage's attack, the chances of you hitting a hand that was bad anyways decrease quite a lot. You can also play multiple Pillages on your opponent in a turn which is much more potent as well (though that's probably only feasible with Throne Room and the like). Plus, the draw and buys that Council Room gives you help you make use of the Spoils you get.

Very few times do I consider Pillage to be a legitimate attack, but Council Room is probably the best enabler out there.

Quarry/Talisman: Relatively well-known, but the big bummer about Talisman is that it can't gain $5+ cards, and Quarry fixes that. Sure, other cost reduction works for this, but Quarry is also a treasure, stacks easily for Actions, and lets you get $6 cards too.

Menagerie/Warehouse: Menagerie is enabled strongly by cards that allow you to discard selectively from your hand, but Warehouse gets a special mention because it's much, much better than other cards for enabling Menagerie decks. You can draw most of your deck without Copper trashing, you can green heavily and not really stall all that much, which are things you're hard-pressed to do with other discarders.
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Dingan

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #156 on: April 21, 2015, 01:14:13 pm »
0


As promised, here is my spiel.

So when I look at a board, one of the things I do is look for combos. Yeah there's the big stuff like NV/Bridge, Hermit/Market Square, those you just build your whole deck around. But then there are other ones like Apprentice/Fortress, FV/Wharf, Apothecary/NV, Tactician/Black Market, and lot of the stuff mentioned here -- synergies strong enough that even though they don't dictate all of your strategy, they are incorporated strongly into it.

The way to get better at knowing these explosive synergies is to just know about them. I thought a thread that lists a bunch of these good ones would be useful.

So that's what I wanted from this thread. Anything else I've said was just a (probably misguided) attempt to keep the discussion from going off to some other direction.

So like, what is the right thing to do here? I kind of hoped that the community could just have an on-topic discussion without the need for me to moderate it and someone could just scroll down the pages and read lots of really cool tidbits of knowledge. Instead, they have to weed through a bunch of sarcastic suggestions, or maybe some suggestions that turned out to not be so good after some discussion. Whether or not I like that is irrelevant, that's what's going to happen.

So in order to have the resource I wanted, what I'm supposed to do is not only try to keep discussion on track, but find the combos that were deemed "good enough" and compile them on a list in the OP. As you can see, I'm bad at that. Because I'm bad at it, I'm less motivated to do it because it frustrates me -- all for personal reasons that are totally irrelevant. If I'm going to contribute to the community, I should just do what I'm good at, which is probably making videos. And not doing this.

Maybe there are some other people who are more motivated to do that. Sure, they should go ahead and do it, I certainly won't be offended. I'll even contribute when I think it's meaningful.

FYI:

I suggest the OPer put the most useful/simple/interesting interactions into the OP, to make them easy to find later.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #157 on: April 21, 2015, 01:18:44 pm »
0

So combos that need a splitter are cool after all?

Also, you quoted Ghost Ship/Wishing Well which is a counter, not a combo.  So I am more confused about what you're looking for than before.  :P
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 01:20:18 pm by eHalcyon »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #158 on: April 22, 2015, 10:07:27 am »
0

Also, you quoted Ghost Ship/Wishing Well which is a counter, not a combo.  So I am more confused about what you're looking for than before.  :P

He's looking for interactions, which cover combos, counters and also other things like Swindler/Peddler.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #159 on: April 22, 2015, 11:05:01 am »
+1

Inheritance/Baron is a pretty obvious, but nice, interaction.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #160 on: April 22, 2015, 02:22:10 pm »
+4

Inheritance/Baron is a pretty obvious, but nice, interaction.
At first I thought:
"What? The point of Inheritance is to play your Estates. Baron discards them instead."

And then I realized:
"Ah, the point of this combo is to use Baron to gain Estates."
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #161 on: April 22, 2015, 02:25:16 pm »
+1

Also baron makes it a lot easier to hit 7 and gives you something to do with estates before they are upgraded...
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #162 on: April 22, 2015, 02:27:41 pm »
+5

Also, you know, Inheritance and Estates... neat interaction.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #163 on: April 22, 2015, 05:04:04 pm »
+2

Fishing Village/Wharf is very strong, agreed, but it's a generic rather than a specific combo, yesno? It's village + terminal draw, just two expletiveing excellent examples of said types.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #164 on: April 22, 2015, 05:14:33 pm »
0

Fishing Village/Wharf is very strong, agreed, but it's a generic rather than a specific combo, yesno? It's village + terminal draw, just two expletiveing excellent examples of said types.

FV/Wharf is particularly strong because it doesn't need payload, really - FV provides coin, and Wharf provides +Buy.  You really just need these cards, and maybe some Treasures.  Anything else is just gravy.  Gravy you don't mind having, but still gravy.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #165 on: April 23, 2015, 12:26:32 am »
+1

Death Cart/Vineyards is nice. Clearly you wouldn't build a deck around it, but if you have a strong Vineyards deck anyway, not only does Death Cart pump up your Vineyards by 1 each time (as long as Ruins remain), but they can help you end the game since you only need 5 of them to empty a pile.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #166 on: April 23, 2015, 02:27:37 am »
0

Death Cart/Vineyards is nice. Clearly you wouldn't build a deck around it, but if you have a strong Vineyards deck anyway, not only does Death Cart pump up your Vineyards by 1 each time (as long as Ruins remain), but they can help you end the game since you only need 5 of them to empty a pile.

Feels like a nombo to me.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 09:36:27 pm by Flip5ide »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #167 on: April 23, 2015, 02:31:37 am »
0

Death Cart/Vineyard is obviously a useful card interaction.. though there are certainly many better Vineyard helpers.

Death Cart/Fairgrounds also helps a bit for hitting 15 uniques with 1 buy toward the end of the game.  Probably not so notable, though.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #168 on: April 23, 2015, 02:54:27 am »
0

Not sure if this belongs here, and I'm kind of afraid to post it, but Swamp Hag/Events is an interesting interaction. Swamp Hag gives Curses for buying cards, Events are not cards. So going for Events on a Swamp Hagged turn might be a thing.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #169 on: April 23, 2015, 04:33:09 am »
0

Death Cart/Vineyards is nice. Clearly you wouldn't build a deck around it, but if you have a strong Vineyards deck anyway, not only does Death Cart pump up your Vineyards by 1 each time (as long as Ruins remain), but they can help you end the game since you only need 5 of them to empty a pile.

Feels like a nombo to me.

In what sense? Obviously you're not going to want to actually play the Death Carts, so it's a very late-game thing. But if you want Vineyards anyway, upgrading them by a full point for $4 and a buy is great value.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #170 on: April 23, 2015, 08:37:10 am »
0

Death Cart/Vineyards is nice. Clearly you wouldn't build a deck around it, but if you have a strong Vineyards deck anyway, not only does Death Cart pump up your Vineyards by 1 each time (as long as Ruins remain), but they can help you end the game since you only need 5 of them to empty a pile.

Feels like a nombo to me.

Umm, no. I have played a few Vineyards game with Death Cart and most often I won. One DC buy increases each Vineyard in value by 1 point. If you tie the split, that's a 4 VP gain right there. If you somehow win the split 5/3, you're getting 5 VP right there. DC is pretty good in Vineyards  games.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #171 on: April 23, 2015, 08:43:18 am »
+3

Death Cart/Vineyards is nice. Clearly you wouldn't build a deck around it, but if you have a strong Vineyards deck anyway, not only does Death Cart pump up your Vineyards by 1 each time (as long as Ruins remain), but they can help you end the game since you only need 5 of them to empty a pile.

Feels like a nombo to me.

Umm, no. I have played a few Vineyards game with Death Cart and most often I won. One DC buy increases each Vineyard in value by 1 point. If you tie the split, that's a 4 VP gain right there. If you somehow win the split 5/3, you're getting 5 VP right there. DC is pretty good in Vineyards  games.

So it's a $4 somewhat-better-than-duchy. Seems reasonably good, but by no means game-shattering.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #172 on: April 23, 2015, 09:01:39 am »
+8

Death Cart/Vineyards is nice. Clearly you wouldn't build a deck around it, but if you have a strong Vineyards deck anyway, not only does Death Cart pump up your Vineyards by 1 each time (as long as Ruins remain), but they can help you end the game since you only need 5 of them to empty a pile.

Feels like a nombo to me.

Umm, no. I have played a few Vineyards game with Death Cart and most often I won. One DC buy increases each Vineyard in value by 1 point. If you tie the split, that's a 4 VP gain right there. If you somehow win the split 5/3, you're getting 5 VP right there. DC is pretty good in Vineyards  games.

So it's a $4 somewhat-better-than-duchy. Seems reasonably good, but by no means game-shattering.

Yeah, I guess I was more going for "Neat and potentially useful".
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #173 on: April 23, 2015, 10:16:04 am »
0

Not sure if this belongs here, and I'm kind of afraid to post it, but Swamp Hag/Events is an interesting interaction. Swamp Hag gives Curses for buying cards, Events are not cards. So going for Events on a Swamp Hagged turn might be a thing.
Swamp Hag vs Alms? Buying Alms gains you a $4-cost but you didn't buy that $4-cost.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #174 on: April 23, 2015, 10:22:32 am »
0

Not sure if this belongs here, and I'm kind of afraid to post it, but Swamp Hag/Events is an interesting interaction. Swamp Hag gives Curses for buying cards, Events are not cards. So going for Events on a Swamp Hagged turn might be a thing.
Swamp Hag vs Alms? Buying Alms gains you a $4-cost but you didn't buy that $4-cost.

Ball is also decent for this.  And I guess Seaway?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #175 on: April 23, 2015, 10:26:41 am »
0

Not sure if this belongs here, and I'm kind of afraid to post it, but Swamp Hag/Events is an interesting interaction. Swamp Hag gives Curses for buying cards, Events are not cards. So going for Events on a Swamp Hagged turn might be a thing.
Swamp Hag vs Alms? Buying Alms gains you a $4-cost but you didn't buy that $4-cost.

Ball is also decent for this.  And I guess Seaway?

Pilgrimage as well.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #176 on: April 23, 2015, 12:26:43 pm »
0

DC sounds like something that you'd only buy on the last turn in Vineyards games for the points or pile control.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #177 on: April 23, 2015, 01:11:56 pm »
+4

Tactician/Vault: Play double Tactician, playing one each turn, and turn all your cards into spendable money with Vault.

Vault/Grand Market: Absent handsize reduction, a single play of Vault guarantees you enough for a Grand Market.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #178 on: April 23, 2015, 01:17:26 pm »
0

DC sounds like something that you'd only buy on the last turn in Vineyards games for the points or pile control.

no way -- i'm buying actions as soon as the vineyard pile is empty, and my top priority action with a 4 is death cart (assuming there's at least two ruins left)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #179 on: April 23, 2015, 07:46:55 pm »
+3

It's already listed somewhere under combos, but Scavenger/Stash is like unlocking a cheat code.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #180 on: April 23, 2015, 09:48:18 pm »
+1

It's already listed somewhere under combos, but Scavenger/Stash is like unlocking a cheat code.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #181 on: April 26, 2015, 09:37:06 pm »
+1

Death Cart/Vineyards is nice. Clearly you wouldn't build a deck around it, but if you have a strong Vineyards deck anyway, not only does Death Cart pump up your Vineyards by 1 each time (as long as Ruins remain), but they can help you end the game since you only need 5 of them to empty a pile.

Feels like a nombo to me.

In what sense? Obviously you're not going to want to actually play the Death Carts, so it's a very late-game thing. But if you want Vineyards anyway, upgrading them by a full point for $4 and a buy is great value.


I mean as a strategy in and of itself it would never work be tough to make win with. You would have to consistently hit 4 (or use your DC's, which has a Trade Route-Gardens anti-synergy). Each time you buy one, which will be increasingly harder to do, you would be filling in the space between seeing your Potion with more and more Ruins.

But as a late-game interaction I can see how it would be useful. I was thinking as a "those two cards are on the board, gotta rush both piles" kind of deal.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #182 on: April 26, 2015, 10:45:00 pm »
+1

It's already listed somewhere under combos, but Scavenger/Stash is like unlocking a cheat code.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #183 on: April 29, 2015, 11:17:56 am »
+2

Hermit + Coppersmith + cheap non terminal plus buy

Not as powerful as Hermit + Market Square, but still can be very powerful.  Nab Madmen, Coppersmith, and cheap non terminal plus buys (Pawn, Hamlet, Candlestick Maker, etc.).  Then do a megaturn in which you play several Coppersmiths and your non terminal plus buys.  Keep track of how many Coppersmiths you have so that you can ensure you have enough Madmen or villages or whatever to play them all, and keep track of how many buys total you will have so that you can ensure you can buy all the green cards you want.  I don't know the optimal play (when to buy a Coppersmith vs. when to gain a Madman, should you be buying coppers, etc.), but I do know it can pay off.  As with any megaturn, make sure you can end the game on it.  So maybe go for it when opponent has half the provinces and you have at least 2 Madmen in hand, or whatever.

I've executed this both successfully and very unsuccessfully.  But either way, it is fun to try, encourages careful deck tracking, and seems underrated.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #184 on: May 02, 2015, 11:31:48 pm »
+1

Some I've encountered in Adventures:

Market Square-Bonfire:  Market Square works nicely with any trasher, but the nice thing about Bonfire is it's always available, so you don't need to collide your Market Square with your trasher; you just need to collide it with $3.  I wonder how double-Market Square compares to Market Square-Silver (assuming no stronger openers are available).

Bridge/Highway/Bridge Troll/Ferry-Inheritance: Now you can inherit more expensive cards (note, however, that the cost reduction doesn't affect the cost of Inheritance itself).  Ferry is particularly effective since you don't need to collide it with your $7 hand.  As an added bonus, Estates are often free in games with cost reducers (except Ferry).  Of course, even when this combo's available, the delay might not be worth it, but it can still be very helpful on the right board (i.e., a longer game with strong $5 cards and weak $1-4 cards). 
Note that I didn't mention Princess with the other cost reducers because I imagine that would almost never be fast enough to be useful.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #185 on: May 03, 2015, 12:33:38 am »
+1

Ferry or Borrow guarantees opening with a $5 cost card.
Pathfinding with Magpie works pretty well. It is either an activated Menagerie (+3 cards +1 Action) or a Lab that gains you a Lab.
Inheritance counters Haunted Woods during early-game since you can play your Estates. Plus, you can save them for next turn if you want.
Treasures with effects aside from the $ they provide are very useful with Storyteller. (Quarry, Contraband, Coin of the Realm, Treasure Trove are some that come to mind.)
Distant Lands works well as a source of VP in slogs, since slogs take longer and the Distant Lands "islands" itself from your deck.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #186 on: May 03, 2015, 02:02:33 am »
0

I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #187 on: May 03, 2015, 02:09:30 am »
0

I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?

Inheritance doesn't work on Victory cards.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #188 on: May 03, 2015, 02:38:11 am »
0

I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?

Inheritance doesn't work on Victory cards.
But Distant Lands are "Action-Reserve-Victory"
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eHalcyon

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #189 on: May 03, 2015, 02:50:39 am »
+1

I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?

Inheritance doesn't work on Victory cards.
But Distant Lands are "Action-Reserve-Victory"

Right, but it's Action-Reserve-Victory, and Inheritance only works on non-Victory Action cards.

It's also too expensive without cost reduction.
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enfynet

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #190 on: May 03, 2015, 10:09:07 am »
0

I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?

Inheritance doesn't work on Victory cards.
But Distant Lands are "Action-Reserve-Victory"

Right, but it's Action-Reserve-Victory, and Inheritance only works on non-Victory Action cards.

It's also too expensive without cost reduction.
Dur... Right it says "non-Victory" doesn't it?  It's hard to remember these things without using these cards yet.
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belugawhale

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #191 on: May 03, 2015, 03:11:56 pm »
0

Champion and Diadem work very well. It pretty much makes all +Action become +$.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #192 on: May 03, 2015, 04:16:32 pm »
+1

I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?

Ignoring everything below this: How would this work? Are they 5/1 or 4/0 victory points? Food for thought.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #193 on: May 03, 2015, 04:38:32 pm »
0

I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?

Ignoring everything below this: How would this work? Are they 5/1 or 4/0 victory points? Food for thought.

That's probably part of why Inheritance doesn't work on Victory cards.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #194 on: May 03, 2015, 04:44:59 pm »
0

I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?

Ignoring everything below this: How would this work? Are they 5/1 or 4/0 victory points? Food for thought.

That's probably part of why Inheritance doesn't work on Victory cards.

A big reason (I asked this during the previews) is that you'd often automatically go for Islands. 
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eHalcyon

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #195 on: May 03, 2015, 05:29:19 pm »
0

I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?

Ignoring everything below this: How would this work? Are they 5/1 or 4/0 victory points? Food for thought.

They would be 5/1.  Estate gains the effects of the chosen card, but it also keeps its Estate name, $2 cost and base 1VP.  The gained effects are additions, not replacements.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #196 on: May 03, 2015, 06:09:22 pm »
0

I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?

Ignoring everything below this: How would this work? Are they 5/1 or 4/0 victory points? Food for thought.

They would be 5/1.  Estate gains the effects of the chosen card, but it also keeps its Estate name, $2 cost and base 1VP.  The gained effects are additions, not replacements.

But the effect of the chosen card is that it's worth 0 if not on your Tavern mat at the end of that game.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #197 on: May 03, 2015, 09:50:54 pm »
0

I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?

Ignoring everything below this: How would this work? Are they 5/1 or 4/0 victory points? Food for thought.

They would be 5/1.  Estate gains the effects of the chosen card, but it also keeps its Estate name, $2 cost and base 1VP.  The gained effects are additions, not replacements.

But the effect of the chosen card is that it's worth 0 if not on your Tavern mat at the end of that game.

Hmmm, I would still say that that is separate from the basic 1VP it has as an Estate.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #198 on: May 03, 2015, 10:03:27 pm »
0

It could be worth 5-0 then, maybe?
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dondon151

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #199 on: May 03, 2015, 10:42:18 pm »
+1

Since there is no official ruling on such matters, obviously there is no answer...

Do inherited Estates count as Action cards at the end of the game when totaling Vineyards points?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #200 on: May 03, 2015, 10:51:11 pm »
+1

Since there is no official ruling on such matters, obviously there is no answer...

Do inherited Estates count as Action cards at the end of the game when totaling Vineyards points?

This seems obvious by the wording of the Event - Estates specifically gain the abilities and types of the set aside card. Vineyard cares about the type of the card in question, so Inherited Estates should count for Vineyard.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #201 on: May 03, 2015, 11:52:16 pm »
0

This seems obvious by the wording of the Event - Estates specifically gain the abilities and types of the set aside card. Vineyard cares about the type of the card in question, so Inherited Estates should count for Vineyard.

This is not at all obvious to me when the wording in the FAQ says "for the rest of the game, all of your Estates have the abilities and types of the set aside card." Do inherited Estates become normal Estates at the end of the game when you're counting points, or do they stay inherited Estates?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #202 on: May 04, 2015, 02:14:08 am »
0

This seems obvious by the wording of the Event - Estates specifically gain the abilities and types of the set aside card. Vineyard cares about the type of the card in question, so Inherited Estates should count for Vineyard.

This is not at all obvious to me when the wording in the FAQ says "for the rest of the game, all of your Estates have the abilities and types of the set aside card." Do inherited Estates become normal Estates at the end of the game when you're counting points, or do they stay inherited Estates?
Is the score calculated at the moment the game ends, or after the game ends? Because I would figure that the "end of the game" is actually still part of the game.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #203 on: May 04, 2015, 02:47:01 am »
+5

Do inherited Estates count as Action cards at the end of the game when totaling Vineyards points?
Yes.
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Warrior + Champion
« Reply #204 on: May 04, 2015, 08:44:17 am »
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I'm withholding final judgement until I've played more games, but the combination of Warrior and its grandchild, Champion seems to be dominating the games where they appear.  There's a large first-mover advantage to getting a Champion and several Warriors, as they effectively become Laboratories with a cumulative attack.  By adding some extra Pages, I've seen 8+ cards/turn of trash milling.  The most effective counter usually seems to be to get Champion oneself, which only intensifies the rush for that pile.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #205 on: May 05, 2015, 03:30:41 pm »
+1

Haven and Golem: If you need Golem to make your engine work, you've probably suffered the frustrating turns where you don't draw your Golem until it isn't useful anymore. Yeah Golems are great at the start of your turn and awful at the end. Haven takes this negative and turns it into a positive. It's also a cantrip so you don't get those nasty Golem-surprises as often (LOL I'M GOING TO HIT THE ONLY TWO TERMINALZ IN UR DECK SO UR TURN IZ OVAR!!!!!)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #206 on: May 05, 2015, 04:46:18 pm »
+4

Just thought of this:

Storyteller/Treasure Trove:

Storyteller wants excess Treasure, TT gives it to you.  But ST doesn't just want excess Treasure, it wants high-value excess Treasure, which TT still gives you.  Ordinarily, without trashing, TT might overflow an engine, but ST is able to deal with it.  Possibly you use all your Gold for draw, and then just have an unholy amount of Coppers for buying.  Or better yet, play TT with ST, giving you even more Treasures to draw!

Might need some +Buy, but that's not exactly hard to come by, and ST is non-terminal.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 04:47:26 pm by werothegreat »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #207 on: May 05, 2015, 11:14:03 pm »
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Just thought of this:

Storyteller/Treasure Trove:

Man, I just posted this one.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #208 on: May 05, 2015, 11:41:38 pm »
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Just thought of this:

Storyteller/Treasure Trove:

Man, I just posted this one.

So did LastFootnote!  But I did it first.  ;)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #209 on: May 06, 2015, 03:01:23 pm »
0

Has anybody mentioned IGG+Apprentice+Graverobber?

Buy one IGG, trash it with Apprentice, gain it back with Graverobber, give your opponent a kajillion curses in the process.

Only works with a pretty thin deck and a secondary strategy but...
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #210 on: May 06, 2015, 03:06:29 pm »
+1

Has anybody mentioned IGG+Apprentice+Graverobber?

Buy one IGG, trash it with Apprentice, gain it back with Graverobber, give your opponent a kajillion curses in the process.

Only works with a pretty thin deck and a secondary strategy but...

Well, that's two separate card interactions: Graverobber + Apprentice and strong on-gain ability + Apprentice. IGG and Graverobber don't really have much of a synergy.

Also, if something requires 3 cards, then it's having a really hard time being "potentially useful". I mean, sure, it's possible that you end up playing a game with those three cards eventually if you play thousands of games, but on the other hand, it's also not too unlikely that you never will.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #211 on: May 06, 2015, 03:22:33 pm »
0

Well I mean I was thinking more along the lines of IGG + any non-terminal and/or cost-based trashing + any gain-from-trash card. Apprentice just struck me as best because it's non-terminal and cost-based. Terminal trashers would need a village to work, which is an extra card you'd need.

The interactions can pretty much be taken on their own - IGG + cost-based trashing gives you a bigger benefit from a "glorified copper" and IGG + gain-from-trash lets you use the on-gain ability from IGG more without junking up your deck. It's the combination of those that would qualify it as a "combo".
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #212 on: May 06, 2015, 03:41:28 pm »
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IGG + gain-from-trash lets you use the on-gain ability from IGG more without junking up your deck. It's the combination of those that would qualify it as a "combo".

Gaining from the trash junks your deck up just as much as gaining from the supply.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #213 on: May 06, 2015, 03:48:03 pm »
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IGG + gain-from-trash lets you use the on-gain ability from IGG more without junking up your deck. It's the combination of those that would qualify it as a "combo".

Gaining from the trash junks your deck up just as much as gaining from the supply.

Trashing and gaining back the same card over and over junks you up as much as buying a ton of copies of that card?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #214 on: May 06, 2015, 03:50:54 pm »
+1

Half the point of IGG is emptying the pile.  Then you just have to empty one more pile, and if you won the IGG split, you win.  Gaining the same IGG over and over again is kind of undermining that.  I could see Graverobber as possibly undermining a player who wants to rush IGGs, as a way to stall the end of the game.  But then you'd need a card to trash IGG in the first place... and yeah, not seeing it.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #215 on: May 06, 2015, 03:56:17 pm »
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Trashing and gaining back the same card over and over junks you up as much as buying a ton of copies of that card?

Trashing and gaining back the same card over and over junks you up as much as trashing and buying a ton of copies of that card, yes. In other words, the interaction is still just IGG+Apprentice.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #216 on: May 06, 2015, 03:58:09 pm »
+1

Half the point of IGG is emptying the pile.  Then you just have to empty one more pile, and if you won the IGG split, you win.  Gaining the same IGG over and over again is kind of undermining that.  I could see Graverobber as possibly undermining a player who wants to rush IGGs, as a way to stall the end of the game.  But then you'd need a card to trash IGG in the first place... and yeah, not seeing it.

Indeed. The relevant card combination is IGG+Duchy.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #217 on: May 06, 2015, 06:15:21 pm »
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IGG+Mine/Taxman is decent.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #218 on: May 24, 2015, 07:54:55 am »
+2

Crossroads + Advisor : Simply because it's very likely that advisor draws you junk. Same logic as Scout + Crossroads, but you want advisor way more often than you would want a scout.

Royal Seal (or watchtower) + Border village : Gain Border village + Any good $5 terminal draw (or a trash for benefit). And you'll have a good next turn.

Royal Seal (watchtower) + Death Cart : Topdeck the death cart and one of the two ruins. In case of watchtower, trash the second ruin.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #219 on: May 24, 2015, 11:27:07 am »
+1

Procession+Strong 5 cost terminal, gain Border Village, gain the 5 cost.
Works wonders with Torturer.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #220 on: May 25, 2015, 06:06:01 pm »
0

IGG-Death Cart

More strategic than tactical interaction. When rushing IGG you need a third pile to empty, usually duchies, but with death cart around there are a few advantages to going for those instead. You only need to hit 4 instead of 5, and you'll empty the Ruins pile in 2p in 5 buys instead of 8. Then death cart and a few coin in hand will often enable you to get province level money in those cases where your opponent has something going already and is a bit ahead in VP even after all the curses you've sent them.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #221 on: May 25, 2015, 09:25:36 pm »
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Treasure Trove and Apprentice make for a nice combo.  If you have two TT, then you can trash two golds a turn and get them back.  My only problem was having a way to get rid of all the coppers.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #222 on: May 26, 2015, 10:42:58 am »
0

Royal Carriage + Haunted Woods.

Although it doesn't duplicate the attack, +6 cards at the start of your turn is ridiculous for engines. I played two games where every turn I would draw my entire deck and play the other set of RC+HW each turn for massive draw and a constant attack.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #223 on: May 26, 2015, 02:56:01 pm »
+6

Counterfeit/Spoils: You're quite happy trashing the Spoils since you'd be losing it anyway.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #224 on: May 26, 2015, 03:32:42 pm »
+6

Royal Carriage + Haunted Woods.

Although it doesn't duplicate the attack, +6 cards at the start of your turn is ridiculous for engines. I played two games where every turn I would draw my entire deck and play the other set of RC+HW each turn for massive draw and a constant attack.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #225 on: May 26, 2015, 03:34:06 pm »
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Counterfeit/Spoils: You're quite happy trashing the Spoils since you'd be losing it anyway.

Actually, Counterfeit trashes the Treasure after you've played it twice, and by then, Spoils has already returned itself to its pile and Counterfeit has lost track of it and it can no longer be trashed.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #226 on: May 26, 2015, 03:37:57 pm »
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Counterfeit/Spoils: You're quite happy trashing the Spoils since you'd be losing it anyway.

Actually, Counterfeit trashes the Treasure after you've played it twice, and by then, Spoils has already returned itself to its pile and Counterfeit has lost track of it and it can no longer be trashed.

Yeah, that's what he said: You're quite happy losing the Spoils since you'd be trashing it anyway. ;)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #227 on: May 27, 2015, 05:24:37 pm »
+1

Counterfeit/Spoils: You're quite happy trashing the Spoils since you'd be losing it anyway.

Actually, Counterfeit trashes the Treasure after you've played it twice, and by then, Spoils has already returned itself to its pile and Counterfeit has lost track of it and it can no longer be trashed.

Ah right. Even better; you don't have to worry about the pile running out.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #228 on: May 28, 2015, 07:48:08 am »
0

Mint - Platinum?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #229 on: May 29, 2015, 01:11:08 pm »
+1

Mint - Platinum?
Mint-Fool's Gold and Mint-Venture are probably more what the OP was looking for. Those treasure cards actually improve if you proliferate copies of them in your deck.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #230 on: May 29, 2015, 03:21:14 pm »
0

Mint - Platinum?
Mint-Fool's Gold and Mint-Venture are probably more what the OP was looking for. Those treasure cards actually improve if you proliferate copies of them in your deck.
And on a Platinum board those could get you to $9 quickly
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #231 on: May 29, 2015, 04:34:43 pm »
+2

On the flip side, Mine + cost reducer can get those Coppers into Platina or other fun treasures in no time flat.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #232 on: June 03, 2015, 02:20:57 pm »
+2

King's Court - Scheme
Lets you put the KC, Scheme, and another action back on top every turn.

Similar can be said about Thrown Room - Scheme, but doesn't let you put a third action back.

These are especially useful when there are no villages in the kingdom but you want to play multiple terminals.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #233 on: June 04, 2015, 08:26:17 am »
+1

These are especially useful when there are no villages in the kingdom but you want to play multiple terminals.

...like Counting House Storeroom engine :)

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #234 on: June 04, 2015, 11:22:53 am »
+2

I think Cultist and Scheme have an interesting relationship. By "interesting" I'm talking the same type of interesting as Minion and Tunnel -- I often say that if these two cards' relationship was on facebook, it would be listed as "It's Complicated".

Scheme enables engines on Cultist boards where they otherwise might not be strong enough. Usually on Cultist boards the junking is too much, too fast, and you just end up playing Cultist+BM and being sad, but with Scheme you can top-deck Villages or other goodies and have an engine that's reliable enough to compete sometimes. Building that engine is very difficult, though.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #235 on: June 04, 2015, 11:24:10 am »
0

I think Cultist and Scheme have an interesting relationship. By "interesting" I'm talking the same type of interesting as Minion and Tunnel -- I often say that if these two cards' relationship was on facebook, it would be listed as "It's Complicated".

Scheme enables engines on Cultist boards where they otherwise might not be strong enough. Usually on Cultist boards the junking is too much, too fast, and you just end up playing Cultist+BM and being sad, but with Scheme you can top-deck Villages or other goodies and have an engine that's reliable enough to compete sometimes. Building that engine is very difficult, though.

If you can Scheme two Cultists a turn, you're going to wreck. Sadly, you can draw Schemes dead, but if you have an extra village to burn every turn, that won't be an issue. And scheme can help with that.

I think even buying a single scheme on an off turn where you can't afford Cultist *might* be better than your second or third silver.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 11:25:22 am by Seprix »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #236 on: June 15, 2015, 04:20:57 pm »
+2

Haven - Baron
Haven - Treasure Map

Haven - Anything that is bad by itself but good if you have a certain other card to pair it with
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #237 on: June 15, 2015, 05:25:25 pm »
0

Haven - 2nd Terminal
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #238 on: June 15, 2015, 08:45:47 pm »
+1

Pathfinding + Magpie

Turns them into either an activated Menagerie or a Lab that gains you another Lab.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #239 on: June 17, 2015, 04:58:39 pm »
0

Plan+Caravan
Increase and improve draw in one fell swoop.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #240 on: July 27, 2015, 02:54:13 pm »
0

Cultist/Trade Route for the end game.

At the end game it is likely that the Ruins would have run out and some victory cards would have been bought. Cultists can no longer attack, so you can trash them with Trade Route to draw 3 cards, get a plus buy and some money.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #241 on: July 27, 2015, 06:17:49 pm »
0

Treasure Trove and Spice Merchant/Moneylender/Stables

You'll never run out of fuel for money trashing for benefit. Ever.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #242 on: July 27, 2015, 10:36:16 pm »
0

2x(KC+Scavenger+Gold/Silver) gets a province every turn, and 2x(KC+Scavenger+Platinum) gets a colony every turn, both extremely consistently.

Also Storyteller+Miser makes for a ridiculous amount of draw.
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Erick648

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #243 on: July 27, 2015, 10:37:23 pm »
+9

I just had a good come-from-behind with Duke-Duplicate.  It was a Colony board with strong engine potential, so no one was interested in Duchies.  When I saw I was behind, I began accumulating Duplicates with gainers (storing them on my Tavern mat), then on the last turn I used them to gain a bunch of Dukes and Duchies and make up for a 4-Colony deficit.
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ancientcampus

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #244 on: July 28, 2015, 01:07:15 pm »
+1

I just had a good come-from-behind with Duke-Duplicate.  It was a Colony board with strong engine potential, so no one was interested in Duchies.  When I saw I was behind, I began accumulating Duplicates with gainers (storing them on my Tavern mat), then on the last turn I used them to gain a bunch of Dukes and Duchies and make up for a 4-Colony deficit.
That looks like a lot of fun. I'm gonna have to try that sometime. I guess it would prefer an engine - but maybe it could work with just a chapel? (Trim your deck to Chapel/Silver/Silver/Copper/Nothing)

Edit: upon trying it solo it seems that a "Chapel-Duplicate-Duke" so-called "golden deck" will need a little more help, at least from a village. I tried it once and started buying and playing duplicates consistently around turn 9. I don't have any numbers for how fast Duke decks need to be, but this seems a little slow. If you start adding +action and gainers, though, it can get to be scary-fast.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 02:05:12 pm by ancientcampus »
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Erick648

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #245 on: July 28, 2015, 06:10:56 pm »
0

Nice, I'm glad you like it.  I'm not sure a golden deck would work, though, since you need to buy (or otherwise gain) both a Duke and a Duchy on the turn you go off, so having $5 isn't enough.  Something like Remake-Ironworks-Ironworks-Duplicate-Duplicate-Village would probably work (Ironworks-ing a Duplicate and a Village if you don't draw your Village, and Remaking the Ironworkses into a Duke and a Duchy on the final turn), but that's probably too narrow to come up much outside of a constructed Kingdom (even if you count variants using other gainers).  It would be fun on a constructed Kingdom though (ideally with other non-obvious combos that were roughly equal in power).
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ancientcampus

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #246 on: July 29, 2015, 08:00:07 am »
0

Right, that would be a problem, wouldn't it. Still, the combo as a general idea has style, so I'll keep an eye out for it.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #247 on: August 04, 2015, 12:36:24 am »
+1

I'm not sure if it's been said before, but I just played a game with Trader/Embargo that had interesting synergy.  My opponent Embargo'd Cultists, and I eventually discovered that buying a Cultist with Trader in hand was essentially Cultist + free Silver.  He didn't even bother buying any Traders either (basically his Embargo backfired and hurt him).  Not sure if it's good just thought it was cool.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #248 on: August 04, 2015, 01:09:52 am »
0

I'm not sure if it's been said before, but I just played a game with Trader/Embargo that had interesting synergy.  My opponent Embargo'd Cultists, and I eventually discovered that buying a Cultist with Trader in hand was essentially Cultist + free Silver.  He didn't even bother buying any Traders either (basically his Embargo backfired and hurt him).  Not sure if it's good just thought it was cool.
Your opponent was a fool for not picking up a Trader, I think. While generally filling your deck with Silver isn't the greatest of things, having a Silver rather than a Curse (from Embargo) or a Ruins (from your Cultists) is going to be a decent compromise. And I suspect you'd get enough Silvers from that to play a Cultist rush, emptying Duchies, Ruins and a third pile of your choice fairly quickly.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #249 on: August 04, 2015, 02:21:39 am »
0

I'm not sure if it's been said before, but I just played a game with Trader/Embargo that had interesting synergy.  My opponent Embargo'd Cultists, and I eventually discovered that buying a Cultist with Trader in hand was essentially Cultist + free Silver.  He didn't even bother buying any Traders either (basically his Embargo backfired and hurt him).  Not sure if it's good just thought it was cool.
Your opponent was a fool for not picking up a Trader, I think. While generally filling your deck with Silver isn't the greatest of things, having a Silver rather than a Curse (from Embargo) or a Ruins (from your Cultists) is going to be a decent compromise. And I suspect you'd get enough Silvers from that to play a Cultist rush, emptying Duchies, Ruins and a third pile of your choice fairly quickly.
Yeah he opened Ironmonger instead.  Still was a cool interaction.  He didn't even buy a Cultist either (just Mountebanks, Ironmongers, and a Possession a little too late).
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ancientcampus

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #250 on: August 04, 2015, 10:39:46 am »
+1

Mine + Ill-Gotten Gains. Mine silvers and IGGs into more IGGs.

I haven't run this in a simulator, but in a IGG rush I'm pretty sure it's worth buying after your first IGG, if you have at least one silver in your deck. Hitting mine in the same hand as a silver or IGG is likely to result in 2 IGG gains that turn.

Seprix

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #251 on: August 04, 2015, 11:02:52 am »
0

Mine + Ill-Gotten Gains. Mine silvers and IGGs into more IGGs.

I haven't run this in a simulator, but in a IGG rush I'm pretty sure it's worth buying after your first IGG, if you have at least one silver in your deck. Hitting mine in the same hand as a silver or IGG is likely to result in 2 IGG gains that turn.

Sounds nice.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #252 on: August 17, 2015, 11:59:59 pm »
+1

1) Procession Wine Merchant.
2) Keep Wine Merchant.
3) ?????? Gain Action.
4) Profit.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #253 on: August 18, 2015, 05:58:04 am »
0

1) Procession Wine Merchant.
2) Keep Wine Merchant.
3) ?????? Gain Action.
4) Profit.

Woah, you can do that!?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #254 on: August 18, 2015, 10:02:08 am »
+6

1) Procession Wine Merchant.
2) Keep Wine Merchant.
3) ?????? Gain Action.
4) Profit.

Woah, you can do that!?

No. Well, maybe. Actually, yes.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #255 on: August 18, 2015, 10:20:23 am »
+10

"Hey guys, i'm Procession. Ask me what a Band of Misfits i played costs, and i will find it anywhere, be it trash, your hand, Island or Tavern Mat, whatever, to look at its price and tell you. What, wait, i'm supposed to move it? Sorry, no idea where it is."
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #256 on: August 18, 2015, 11:21:25 am »
+5

"Hey guys, i'm Procession. Ask me what a Band of Misfits i played costs, and i will find it anywhere, be it trash, your hand, Island or Tavern Mat, whatever, to look at its price and tell you. What, wait, i'm supposed to move it? Sorry, no idea where it is."

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #257 on: September 09, 2015, 02:42:56 pm »
+1

Fairgrounds - Black Market
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #258 on: September 10, 2015, 03:07:43 am »
+9

Transmogrify + Treasure Map
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #259 on: October 10, 2015, 02:48:22 pm »
+5

Three cards, so not really a combo, but

Open Armory/Loan
If you're lucky enough for them to collide at any point (the earlier the better), play Armory to gain a Tunnel.
Play Loan

Wheee!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #260 on: October 11, 2015, 12:10:51 am »
+8

Three cards, so not really a combo, but

Open Armory/Loan
If you're lucky enough for them to collide at any point (the earlier the better), play Armory to gain a Tunnel.
Play Loan

Wheee!

And then your Loan can hit the Gold you gained, because Loan never hits Copper!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #261 on: October 12, 2015, 04:26:09 am »
+1

Bureaucrat/Loan is even better

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #262 on: October 12, 2015, 08:23:11 am »
+2

Bureaucrat/Loan is even better

Obviously Bureaucrat/X is better than not-Bureaucrat/X. It's the most powerful card in Dominion.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #263 on: October 13, 2015, 02:16:33 am »
0

Trader-Cache
Not THAT neat, but better than just Cache by itself.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #264 on: October 13, 2015, 03:59:12 am »
+2

One I don't see mentioned that I've used to good effect is Mining Village/Rogue.  Usually you save those $2 from trashing Mining Village to the endgame.  With Rogue in hand, you can trash it, then get it back with Rogue.  (I think it also works with Graverobber, but then you don't get the additional $2 from Rogue.)

Trader-Cache
Not THAT neat, but better than just Cache by itself.

Of course, Watchtower/Cache is even better.
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theJester

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #265 on: October 13, 2015, 05:24:59 am »
+5

One that I like is Graverobber/Border Village.

1. Gain Graverobber with BV
2. Trash BV (3$ card in play) for Province
3. Gaining from BV also provides fuel for Graverobber to turn into Provinces
4. Regain BV from trash and gain another cheaper card along with it
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #266 on: October 13, 2015, 12:02:55 pm »
0

One I don't see mentioned that I've used to good effect is Mining Village/Rogue.  Usually you save those $2 from trashing Mining Village to the endgame.  With Rogue in hand, you can trash it, then get it back with Rogue.  (I think it also works with Graverobber, but then you don't get the additional $2 from Rogue.)
Mining Village - Rogue will give you a net of 0 actions, -1 cards, and $4.  So its not all that much different than just having 2 Silvers.  Also, a Harvest or Tribute can give you almost the same effect.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #267 on: October 13, 2015, 12:14:16 pm »
0

One I don't see mentioned that I've used to good effect is Mining Village/Rogue.  Usually you save those $2 from trashing Mining Village to the endgame.  With Rogue in hand, you can trash it, then get it back with Rogue.  (I think it also works with Graverobber, but then you don't get the additional $2 from Rogue.)
Mining Village - Rogue will give you a net of 0 actions, -1 cards, and $4.  So its not all that much different than just having 2 Silvers.  Also, a Harvest or Tribute can give you almost the same effect.

Bonus: Mining Village gained through Rogue won't miss reshuffle if you shuffle during that turn; your two Silvers would.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #268 on: October 13, 2015, 12:16:39 pm »
0

One I don't see mentioned that I've used to good effect is Mining Village/Rogue.  Usually you save those $2 from trashing Mining Village to the endgame.  With Rogue in hand, you can trash it, then get it back with Rogue.  (I think it also works with Graverobber, but then you don't get the additional $2 from Rogue.)
Mining Village - Rogue will give you a net of 0 actions, -1 cards, and $4.  So its not all that much different than just having 2 Silvers.  Also, a Harvest or Tribute can give you almost the same effect.

What?  Mining Village draws a card.  Starting from a regular 5 card hand, you end with 4 other cards in hand with which to do something, though you also have the option to not trash Mining Village and use Rogue as an attack (or to gain something else from the trash).  Two Silvers are pure stop cards, which only leaves you 3 other cards in hand, no draw.

Harvest leaves you with 0 actions remaining and is far less reliable.  Tribute is even less reliable, and terminal if you get +$4 from it.

Bonus: Mining Village gained through Rogue won't miss reshuffle if you shuffle during that turn; your two Silvers would.

What if MV itself causes the reshuffle? ;)
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Witherweaver

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #269 on: October 13, 2015, 12:18:44 pm »
0

So really it's

+1 Action, +$4, place in discard pile after playing.

Though if you play it again in the same turn you need another Rogue to make it that.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #270 on: October 13, 2015, 12:19:54 pm »
0

Bonus: Mining Village gained through Rogue won't miss reshuffle if you shuffle during that turn; your two Silvers would.

What if MV itself causes the reshuffle? ;)

I'm talking about the next shuffle, obviously.  If there is a shuffle after playing Mining Village and before your cleanup phase, The Mining Village that was trashed and gained from Rogue will be included, but anything in play will not.

Edit: Oh, but, right.  A Silver would not have caused the shuffle that Mining Village did.  Well, edge case to an edge case I guess.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #271 on: October 13, 2015, 07:11:03 pm »
0

One I don't see mentioned that I've used to good effect is Mining Village/Rogue.  Usually you save those $2 from trashing Mining Village to the endgame.  With Rogue in hand, you can trash it, then get it back with Rogue.  (I think it also works with Graverobber, but then you don't get the additional $2 from Rogue.)
Mining Village - Rogue will give you a net of 0 actions, -1 cards, and $4.  So its not all that much different than just having 2 Silvers.  Also, a Harvest or Tribute can give you almost the same effect.

What?  Mining Village draws a card.  Starting from a regular 5 card hand, you end with 4 other cards in hand with which to do something, though you also have the option to not trash Mining Village and use Rogue as an attack (or to gain something else from the trash).  Two Silvers are pure stop cards, which only leaves you 3 other cards in hand, no draw.

Harvest leaves you with 0 actions remaining and is far less reliable.  Tribute is even less reliable, and terminal if you get +$4 from it.

I didn't say it was the exact same, I said it was
not all that much different than
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #272 on: October 14, 2015, 11:56:34 am »
+1

Scrying Pool - Swindler
Scrying Pool - Saboteur
Scrying Pool - Jester

etc.
(Ok, what doesn't go well with Scrying Pool?)

EDIT: I mention Scrying Pool here instead of, say, Spy or Oracle because SP is just so reliable for attacks like this.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2015, 12:11:12 pm by Dingan »
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ipofanes

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #273 on: October 15, 2015, 05:27:38 am »
0

Plus Oracle is *another* terminal so it wouldn't work in an interaction in isolation.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #274 on: October 15, 2015, 01:09:39 pm »
+1

One I don't see mentioned that I've used to good effect is Mining Village/Rogue.  Usually you save those $2 from trashing Mining Village to the endgame.  With Rogue in hand, you can trash it, then get it back with Rogue.  (I think it also works with Graverobber, but then you don't get the additional $2 from Rogue.)
Mining Village - Rogue will give you a net of 0 actions, -1 cards, and $4.  So its not all that much different than just having 2 Silvers.  Also, a Harvest or Tribute can give you almost the same effect.

What?  Mining Village draws a card.  Starting from a regular 5 card hand, you end with 4 other cards in hand with which to do something, though you also have the option to not trash Mining Village and use Rogue as an attack (or to gain something else from the trash).  Two Silvers are pure stop cards, which only leaves you 3 other cards in hand, no draw.

Harvest leaves you with 0 actions remaining and is far less reliable.  Tribute is even less reliable, and terminal if you get +$4 from it.

I didn't say it was the exact same, I said it was
not all that much different than

Mining Village: Action,

Reveal a rogue from your hand. If you do, +1 action, + and put this card in your discard. Otherwise, +1 card, +2 actions and you may immediately trash this card for +.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #275 on: October 20, 2015, 01:53:04 pm »
+3

IGG-Coppersmith
Seems to be better than just IGG, assuming an IGG-Curse-Duchy 3-pile game.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #276 on: October 20, 2015, 01:58:22 pm »
0

IGG-Coppersmith
Seems to be better than just IGG, assuming an IGG-Curse-Duchy 3-pile game.

Given a board where IGG Rush is the best option, Coppersmith in the long run looks better than a lot of $4 cost cards. In the initial shuffle or two it isn't that great - not better than Silver at getting IGGs, but what it makes up for later is boosting to Province without completely clogging your deck with Copper. Cool idea.

I had a board which had me with no choice but to play Bishop and IGG. It's obviously an awful pair in the sense that your opponent gets to trash Curses for free, but getting 3 points in exchange for an IGG trash without even necessarily losing economy that turn is rather nice.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #277 on: November 01, 2015, 09:18:48 am »
+2

You can Bonfire Hirelings you've played and Graverob them later (maybe on a Mission turn).  Infinite card draw.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #278 on: November 01, 2015, 09:30:11 am »
0

You can Bonfire Hirelings you've played and Graverob them later (maybe on a Mission turn).  Infinite card draw.

I'm pretty sure that doesn't work, right?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #279 on: November 01, 2015, 09:50:38 am »
+4

You can Bonfire Hirelings you've played and Graverob them later (maybe on a Mission turn).  Infinite card draw.

I'm pretty sure that doesn't work, right?
It works in the sense of being within the rules.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #280 on: November 01, 2015, 10:40:21 am »
0

IGG-Coppersmith
Seems to be better than just IGG, assuming an IGG-Curse-Duchy 3-pile game.

Given a board where IGG Rush is the best option, Coppersmith in the long run looks better than a lot of $4 cost cards. In the initial shuffle or two it isn't that great - not better than Silver at getting IGGs, but what it makes up for later is boosting to Province without completely clogging your deck with Copper. Cool idea.

I had a board which had me with no choice but to play Bishop and IGG. It's obviously an awful pair in the sense that your opponent gets to trash Curses for free, but getting 3 points in exchange for an IGG trash without even necessarily losing economy that turn is rather nice.
IGG-Duchy games are often decided on one player hitting a lucky Province or 2. With Coppersmith or 2, spiking such a Province is obviously easier. I doubt whether always getting the free Copper is optimal as opposed to only picking the Coppers when you need to hit $5/$8.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #281 on: November 02, 2015, 04:22:52 am »
0

I recently bought Inheritance very, very early thanks to Wine Merchant. Which made me think that it's an excellent card to get very expensive cards or Events very early. Until i started typing this and realized you'd need a 5$ opening for that, and Baron as well as many other 5$s can do the same. Ah well...
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #282 on: November 02, 2015, 10:15:58 am »
+1

With cost reduction, Summon Distant Lands.  Can also Summon Islands without the cost reduction.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #283 on: November 02, 2015, 10:20:15 am »
0

With cost reduction, Summon Distant Lands.  Can also Summon Islands without the cost reduction.

The Distant Lands can be a fun gamble. If the game ends before your next turn, you don't get the points!

Summoning Islands is a big risk (unless your deck is still mostly Estates and Coppers).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #284 on: November 02, 2015, 10:58:59 am »
+2

I recently bought Inheritance very, very early thanks to Wine Merchant. Which made me think that it's an excellent card to get very expensive cards or Events very early. Until i started typing this and realized you'd need a 5$ opening for that, and Baron as well as many other 5$s can do the same. Ah well...
Wine Merhant isn't unreasonable at all for games with expensive components you want quickly, such as King's Court or Forge or especially Grand Market. The card is also less bad than it looks when you have more than one of them, as the same $2 can free all of your Wine Merchants at once. I think it is a bit underrated. I would have rated it above a lot of garbage $5s if I actually got around to filling out my poll this year :(
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #285 on: November 02, 2015, 10:07:12 pm »
0

Play 4 Highways, buy Messenger, give everyone a Province.  Make sure you're ahead, and win the game quicker.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #286 on: November 03, 2015, 05:37:50 am »
+2

Recently i had some fun buying Messenger with Trader in hand. Two Silvers for me and a Curse for my opponents, weee!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #287 on: November 03, 2015, 06:03:54 am »
0

Ferry/Band of Misfits is interesting. First put the -$2 token on the BoM, and later move it to another $6 (Goons!!) or $5 action pile.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #288 on: November 03, 2015, 06:24:48 am »
0

Ferry/Band of Misfits is interesting. First put the -$2 token on the BoM, and later move it to another $6 (Goons!!) or $5 action pile.

what is the advantage to putting it on the misfits first?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #289 on: November 03, 2015, 06:47:20 am »
0

what is the advantage to putting it on the misfits first?

Well, to buy them cheaper ! This way you can buy Goons for $3, sort of.

Opening Ferry/BoM on a Chapel board seems also interesting.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 06:48:44 am by gamesou »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #290 on: November 03, 2015, 08:38:47 am »
+3

Recently i had some fun buying Messenger with Trader in hand. Two Silvers for me and a Curse for my opponents, weee!

That's not how Messenger works.  You can Trader the Messenger itself, since it's a when-buy ability, but if you Trader the thing you're handing out to everyone, then no one else gains a copy of it, because you didn't gain a copy yourself.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #291 on: November 03, 2015, 10:09:11 am »
+1

Recently i had some fun buying Messenger with Trader in hand. Two Silvers for me and a Curse for my opponents, weee!

That's not how Messenger works.  You can Trader the Messenger itself, since it's a when-buy ability, but if you Trader the thing you're handing out to everyone, then no one else gains a copy of it, because you didn't gain a copy yourself.

I know that is what the rules say, but I don't understand this semantically. The card doesn't say "if you do" anywhere, so I don't see why failing to gain something affects what your opponents gain. I'm sure I'm just reading the card wrong, and obviously the rules trump my semantic reading of the card text.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #292 on: November 03, 2015, 10:26:23 am »
+2

This is a blue dog situation isn't it?

Messenger says:
"gain a card costing up to $4, and each other player gains a copy of it"

The question becomes: What is "it"?

Well, "it" is the card you gained. However, if are about to gain a card and Trader jumps in and makes that not happen, replacing the gain with its own Silver gain, now "it" (the card you gained) doesn't exist.

You could argue that "it" is the card you chose to gain, but to be consistent with the Ironworks/Trader ruling, "it" has to be the card you gained. If you didn't gain the card Messenger tried to give out, "it" doesn't exist, and your opponents gain nothing.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2015, 09:13:48 am by Deadlock39 »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #294 on: November 04, 2015, 05:39:47 am »
0

Recently i had some fun buying Messenger with Trader in hand. Two Silvers for me and a Curse for my opponents, weee!

That's not how Messenger works.  You can Trader the Messenger itself, since it's a when-buy ability, but if you Trader the thing you're handing out to everyone, then no one else gains a copy of it, because you didn't gain a copy yourself.

Oh man. I was specifically looking for a "If you do" and must say the wording makes it appear you don't have to actually gain it. Or at least, it's not easy to tell.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #295 on: November 04, 2015, 01:32:12 pm »
+5

Stonemason on the board heavily mitigates the drawback of Contraband. Block key engine part? I'll just buy Stonemason and get two. Block Stonemason? With +$3 and a buy, I can still probably double-buy what I wanted anyway.

As ehunt pointed out, you can Stonemason the Contraband into something more useful once it's served its purpose.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #296 on: November 05, 2015, 12:21:00 pm »
+2

Alms + Mint/Mandarin:  Mint and Mandarin remove your Treasures from play, so if you have a spare buy, you can use Alms to pick up a $4 card for free.

Alms + Woodcutter variant (or any virtual money with +buy):  Play Woodcutter, buy a $2 card, get a $4 card from Alms.  Not super-powerful (a gainer would often be faster if there is one), but if there are good cards at $2 and $4, it can help you build your engine faster than those who are trying to buy their components with Treasure.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #297 on: November 05, 2015, 04:20:24 pm »
0

Artificer + Pathfinding

There's no doubt that an extra +1 card makes Artificer an absolute beast - at worst it's a Lab + Peddler, and a large hand is exactly what the discard-for-gain effect wants. You can start off using Artificers to gain more Artificers, and once you've hit $8 pretty soon you'll be getting double-Province turns.

I'm not sure how strong this is compared to Pathfinding a cheaper cantrip. I played this unopposed recently against a solid Venture deck and won narrowly.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #298 on: November 05, 2015, 04:34:24 pm »
+2

Counterfeit+Ill-Gotten Gains

You can produce a Copper with IGG, then Counterfeit it away.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #299 on: November 05, 2015, 05:16:54 pm »
+2

Counterfeit+Ill-Gotten Gains

You can produce a Copper with IGG, then Counterfeit it away.

This seems cool, but I have to wonder when in an IGG game are you going to be buying that Counterfeit instead of another IGG?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #300 on: November 05, 2015, 06:10:36 pm »
+7

Alms + artificer = discard hand for card on deck and cost.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #301 on: November 06, 2015, 04:35:59 am »
0

Counterfeit+Ill-Gotten Gains

You can produce a Copper with IGG, then Counterfeit it away.

This seems cool, but I have to wonder when in an IGG game are you going to be buying that Counterfeit instead of another IGG?
Also, in an IGG game you probably don't want to trash the copper anyway, since you're probably rushing IGG/Duchy or some other alt-VP, so you only need your deck to average Ł1 per card and it's likely to be picking up lots of curses...
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #302 on: November 06, 2015, 04:45:01 am »
+7

Counterfeit+Ill-Gotten Gains

You can produce a Copper with IGG, then Counterfeit it away.

That's a neat interaction, but there's an even neater interaction between Counterfeit and IGG. You can Counterfeit the IGG away.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #303 on: November 06, 2015, 05:32:35 am »
+11

Mint/Quest : open Mint/Curse on 5/2.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #304 on: November 06, 2015, 06:15:29 am »
0

Mint/Quest : open Mint/Curse on 5/2.
Nice.

Moat, Haven, Save, Crossroads, or Courtyard could be even better than curse though.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #305 on: November 06, 2015, 08:12:47 am »
+4

I'm very sure this isn't the first time anyone's noticed this, but Herald is a phenomenal Ghost Ship counter.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #306 on: November 06, 2015, 08:19:28 am »
+7

Ferry + Stonemason

Maximize the overbuy effect of Stonemason by making it cost 0!  Now you can get a Stonemason and two 4-cost actions for 4 coins, or a Stonemason and two 5-cost actions for 5 coins!  Why reduce the cost of one action when you can reduce the cost of ALL actions?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #307 on: November 06, 2015, 08:47:19 am »
0

Ferry + Stonemason

Maximize the overbuy effect of Stonemason by making it cost 0!  Now you can get a Stonemason and two 4-cost actions for 4 coins, or a Stonemason and two 5-cost actions for 5 coins!  Why reduce the cost of one action when you can reduce the cost of ALL actions?

Edge case: You want to overpay for additional Stonemasons.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #308 on: November 06, 2015, 08:56:26 am »
+1

Counterfeit+Ill-Gotten Gains

You can produce a Copper with IGG, then Counterfeit it away.

That's a neat interaction, but there's an even neater interaction between Counterfeit and IGG. You can Counterfeit the IGG away.

Salvager/IGG works better.  Or Bishop/IGG.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #309 on: November 06, 2015, 08:58:50 am »
0

Alms + Mint/Mandarin:  Mint and Mandarin remove your Treasures from play, so if you have a spare buy, you can use Alms to pick up a $4 card for free.

Alms + Woodcutter variant (or any virtual money with +buy):  Play Woodcutter, buy a $2 card, get a $4 card from Alms.  Not super-powerful (a gainer would often be faster if there is one), but if there are good cards at $2 and $4, it can help you build your engine faster than those who are trying to buy their components with Treasure.

Alms/Mint opening sounds brutal, especially for the opponent.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #310 on: November 06, 2015, 10:55:48 am »
0

Lost Arts + Gear - Sure this general concept works with any draw card, but a $3 Laboratory that sets aside Victory cards (to avoid dead draws) or even other Gear (for insurance) is extremely potent.

Gear is probably my favorite card in Dominion at the moment.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #311 on: November 06, 2015, 02:32:58 pm »
+12

Alms + Mint/Mandarin:  Mint and Mandarin remove your Treasures from play, so if you have a spare buy, you can use Alms to pick up a $4 card for free.

Alms + Woodcutter variant (or any virtual money with +buy):  Play Woodcutter, buy a $2 card, get a $4 card from Alms.  Not super-powerful (a gainer would often be faster if there is one), but if there are good cards at $2 and $4, it can help you build your engine faster than those who are trying to buy their components with Treasure.

Alms/Mint opening sounds brutal, especially for the opponent.
i think mint/remake is the best opening in the game:
your dumb opponent opened mountebank/chapel (what is this, 2013?) and you opened mint/remake; turn three you remake the mint in to a bv/mountebank and an estate into a menage and then alms a worker's village and he chapel-trashes fewer coppers than you did when you were like two turns old; your parents always knew you were ahead of the pack. turn four you menage right off the bat, keeping in mind your deck has like 6 differently named cards out of 8 and then not only mountebank but also remake your border village into a king's court and maybe an estate into anoth-gerie. you're set up to king's court a mountebank on turn 5, like, half the time.

turn 6 is necessarily spent putting out the resulting electrical fire
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #312 on: November 08, 2015, 03:53:59 am »
+1

Bureaucrat/Jester: Requires no/poor trashing.  I bought plenty of wandering minstrels and warehouses in a game to pull this off.  The only trasher was trade route.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #313 on: November 19, 2015, 05:05:17 pm »
+5

Diadem/Black Market: Now you can get coins for your actions and use them too! (Surprised I haven't seen this posted anywhere before).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #314 on: November 20, 2015, 12:34:42 pm »
0

Watchtower/Death Cart/Summon

I realize this is a bit of a stretch, but hear me out: Summon a Death Cart, Watchtower 1 or both of the Ruins to the top of your deck (trash one if you like), allowing Summon to set aside DC.  Then on your next turn you get +, you eat that Ruins, and have 4 more cards with which to scrounge up a Province.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #315 on: November 20, 2015, 12:41:02 pm »
0

Watchtower/Death Cart/Summon

I realize this is a bit of a stretch, but hear me out: Summon a Death Cart, Watchtower 1 or both of the Ruins to the top of your deck (trash one if you like), allowing Summon to set aside DC.  Then on your next turn you get +, you eat that Ruins, and have 4 more cards with which to scrounge up a Province.

That might be the best use of summon in a two card, one event kingdom of Watchtower, death cart and summon.

OTOH, in practice it may not be optimal in a random kingdom for another thousand years or so.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #316 on: November 20, 2015, 12:54:46 pm »
0

What are the probabilities that two cards and a particular event show up, given that events are used?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #317 on: November 20, 2015, 01:09:39 pm »
+1

Well, given 250 cards (no promos), you get 10/250 for card 1, 9/249 for card 2, and 8/248 for event 1.  720/15438000 = or 1 in every 21441 games.

(It's been a while since stats, I might have done this totally wrong but it sounds right to me).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #318 on: November 20, 2015, 01:13:19 pm »
0

With promos

10/257 * 9/256 * 8/255 = 1/23301 games


Edit: for funsies, current probability of any given 10 card set: 1 / 290,114,720,000,000,000
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 01:19:26 pm by Ampharos »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #319 on: November 20, 2015, 01:18:29 pm »
0

Well, given 250 cards (no promos), you get 10/250 for card 1, 9/249 for card 2, and 8/248 for event 1.  720/15438000 = or 1 in every 21441 games.

(It's been a while since stats, I might have done this totally wrong but it sounds right to me).
I think that the event drawing is independent, and if I'm not mistaken the probability of drawing a specific event should always be 10/(#cards+1)=10/251.
So, I'd answer 900/15624750, or one in 17361, save Young Witch and without promos.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #320 on: November 20, 2015, 01:20:33 pm »
0

Well, given 250 cards (no promos), you get 10/250 for card 1, 9/249 for card 2, and 8/248 for event 1.  720/15438000 = or 1 in every 21441 games.

(It's been a while since stats, I might have done this totally wrong but it sounds right to me).
I think that the event drawing is independent, and if I'm not mistaken the probability of drawing a specific event should always be 10/(#cards+1)=10/251.
So, I'd answer 900/15624750, or one in 17361, save Young Witch and without promos.

Ah, irl we just assigned them numbers along with the rest of the cards and played them if they were randomed, so my numbers are based on that.  It definitely would change things if events are chosen separately.

And yes, I suppose my numbers ignore young witch and black market as well.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 01:24:03 pm by Ampharos »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #321 on: November 20, 2015, 01:23:55 pm »
+4

I thought that events were officially supposed to be mixed in with all the other randomizers.  If you draw one, you use it and replace it with another kingdom card.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #322 on: November 20, 2015, 01:25:50 pm »
0

I was under this impression as well.

The wiki's event preparation notes seem to agree as well:

Preparation

    Event cards can also be shuffled into the randomizer deck.
    Events are not part of the 10 Kingdom cards used in a game; when an Event is turned over, put it on the table but keep turning over cards until you get 10 Kingdom cards.
    For normal play we recommend using at most two Events per game; skip any further Events.
    Skip Events when using a randomizer card to determine whether or not to use PlatinumPlatinum.jpg/ColonyColony.jpg (from Prosperity), or Shelters (from Dark Ages) in a game.
    Events cannot be Young Witch'sYoung Witch.jpg bane (from Cornucopia).



This actually makes it a lot harder to calculate the odds of a specific event occuring, since you'd have to calculate the odds that an event is in the top 10 cards, and also the odds that that event is the one you're looking for. Maybe I'll try to work on this here for a bit.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 01:29:04 pm by Ampharos »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #323 on: November 20, 2015, 01:26:16 pm »
0

Well, given 250 cards (no promos), you get 10/250 for card 1, 9/249 for card 2, and 8/248 for event 1.  720/15438000 = or 1 in every 21441 games.

(It's been a while since stats, I might have done this totally wrong but it sounds right to me).
I think that the event drawing is independent, and if I'm not mistaken the probability of drawing a specific event should always be 10/(#cards+1)=10/251.
So, I'd answer 900/15624750, or one in 17361, save Young Witch and without promos.

Ah, irl we just assigned them numbers along with the rest of the cards and played them if they were randomed, so my numbers are based on that.  It definitely would change things if events are chosen separately.

And yes, I suppose my numbers ignore young witch and black market as well.

I based myself on the wiki:
Quote
     Event cards can also be shuffled into the randomizer deck.
    Events are not part of the 10 Kingdom cards used in a game; when an Event is turned over, put it on the table but keep turning over cards until you get 10 Kingdom cards.
    For normal play we recommend using at most two Events per game; skip any further Events.
    Skip Events when using a randomizer card to determine whether or not to use PlatinumPlatinum.jpg/ColonyColony.jpg (from Prosperity), or Shelters (from Dark Ages) in a game.
    Events cannot be Young Witch'sYoung Witch.jpg bane (from Cornucopia).
But I skipped the recommendation, just as I skipped the recommendation about Potion-cost cards. (ok, ok, I'm lazy).
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 02:22:43 pm by Accatitippi »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #324 on: November 20, 2015, 01:37:18 pm »
0

Let me explain how I think.

Drawing an Event doesn't decrease the number of Kingdom Cards you draw. Having drawn a specific Kingdom card doesn't decrease the probability that you'll draw (or that you have already drawn) a specific Event. In short, they are what I suspect statisticians call indipendent events (lowecase).

How did I come to that number?
(10/totalcards+1) is another product of my spaghetti statistics. In a deck of 250 Kingdom cards, there are 251 slots where events can hide between real cards: 249 recesses between cards, plus the top and the bottom.
You'll visit 10 of these recesses when you're setting up the game, and include all the events you'll find there. The probability that a specific event is in one og those 10 recesses is of course 10/251.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please. :)

Edit: readability, mostly
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 01:44:53 pm by Accatitippi »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #325 on: November 20, 2015, 01:51:02 pm »
0

Because of the 2 event limit, you can't simply look at the chance that a certain event comes up before you draw 10 kingdom cards alone. You also need to know whether it is the first or second event, as future events won't be used.

Fortunately, every event has an equal probability of showing up, so if you calculate the average number of events that show up in a game, then that number is divided evenly among the 20 (21 with Summon) events. You can determine the distribution of the number of events that show up with the negative hypergeometric distribution. As of Adventures and 20 events, jonts26 did the following calculation of the chance for different numbers of events (I believe assuming 235 Kingdom cards).

I should have actually used negative hyper geometric instead of a naive binomial in my last post. Real probabilities are (for all cards):

0 events: 43.5%
1 event: 35.5%
2+ events: 21.0%
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #326 on: November 20, 2015, 02:16:39 pm »
0

Because of the 2 event limit, you can't simply look at the chance that a certain event comes up before you draw 10 kingdom cards alone. You also need to know whether it is the first or second event, as future events won't be used.

Fortunately, every event has an equal probability of showing up, so if you calculate the average number of events that show up in a game, then that number is divided evenly among the 20 (21 with Summon) events. You can determine the distribution of the number of events that show up with the negative hypergeometric distribution. As of Adventures and 20 events, jonts26 did the following calculation of the chance for different numbers of events (I believe assuming 235 Kingdom cards).

I should have actually used negative hyper geometric instead of a naive binomial in my last post. Real probabilities are (for all cards):

0 events: 43.5%
1 event: 35.5%
2+ events: 21.0%

Is the 2 event limit just recommendation by Donald X. or considered law? 
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #327 on: November 20, 2015, 02:21:46 pm »
0

Because of the 2 event limit, you can't simply look at the chance that a certain event comes up before you draw 10 kingdom cards alone. You also need to know whether it is the first or second event, as future events won't be used.

Fortunately, every event has an equal probability of showing up, so if you calculate the average number of events that show up in a game, then that number is divided evenly among the 20 (21 with Summon) events. You can determine the distribution of the number of events that show up with the negative hypergeometric distribution. As of Adventures and 20 events, jonts26 did the following calculation of the chance for different numbers of events (I believe assuming 235 Kingdom cards).

I should have actually used negative hyper geometric instead of a naive binomial in my last post. Real probabilities are (for all cards):

0 events: 43.5%
1 event: 35.5%
2+ events: 21.0%

Is the 2 event limit just recommendation by Donald X. or considered law?
, or, like the Alchemy recommendation, comes from somebody else entirely?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #328 on: November 20, 2015, 02:23:16 pm »
0

Is the 2 event limit just recommendation by Donald X. or considered law?

Recommended by the Adventures rulebook, I believe, and presumably it will be the implementation in random games on Making Fun. It's also standard in the randomizer app I use, and probably other apps as well.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #329 on: November 20, 2015, 02:40:28 pm »
0

Because of the 2 event limit, you can't simply look at the chance that a certain event comes up before you draw 10 kingdom cards alone. You also need to know whether it is the first or second event, as future events won't be used.

Fortunately, every event has an equal probability of showing up, so if you calculate the average number of events that show up in a game, then that number is divided evenly among the 20 (21 with Summon) events. You can determine the distribution of the number of events that show up with the negative hypergeometric distribution. As of Adventures and 20 events, jonts26 did the following calculation of the chance for different numbers of events (I believe assuming 235 Kingdom cards).

I should have actually used negative hyper geometric instead of a naive binomial in my last post. Real probabilities are (for all cards):

0 events: 43.5%
1 event: 35.5%
2+ events: 21.0%
This, if I'm not wrong, gives:
0.355*1/20+0.21*2/20=3.875% chance of drawing a specific event as the only event or as one of the first two events.
This gives a 0.4% deviation from the unadjusted value of 10/236.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #330 on: November 20, 2015, 03:02:20 pm »
0

Okay, we'll go with limiting them to 2 since it makes things easier.  I ran some numbers, and chances of 1 event: 35.66%, and chances of 2 events: 22.38%, which are really close to jonts numbers. 

We're looking for one specific event.
Odds of it happening in a 1 event game times odds of a 1 event game = 4.7% * .35 = 1.67%
Odds of it happening in a 2 event game times odds of a 2 event game = 9.5% * .22 = 2.1%

Add them together, and you get the odds of a specific event occurring in any game = 3.77%

Odds of any two kingdom cards occurring in the same game: 90/55460 = .16%

Multiply them, and you get .00611792% or 1/16,399

This is a lot closer to your method's result, Accatitippi.

-----------

I'm probably still messing up, but at least it's fun.  ::)

Real answer: MANY MANY GAMES
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 03:07:11 pm by Ampharos »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #331 on: November 20, 2015, 03:20:03 pm »
+3

This is funny because you don't actually need Summon to make Watchtower/Death Cart work. Summon only makes it slightly better.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #332 on: November 20, 2015, 03:28:31 pm »
+1

I don't think the combo works anyway. The Ruins visit the discard pile, covering Death Cart and invoking the lose-track rule. It should definitely work with Trader, though.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #333 on: November 20, 2015, 03:39:32 pm »
0

Taxman/Stables: Stables often draws you a bunch of cards, so you can Taxman just the right treasure to smooth your economy and hit the price point you need. It also guarantees you a treasure in your next hand. Just watch out for opposing Taxmen.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #334 on: November 20, 2015, 03:59:21 pm »
+2

Is the 2 event limit just recommendation by Donald X. or considered law?

Recommended by the Adventures rulebook, I believe, and presumably it will be the implementation in random games on Making Fun. It's also standard in the randomizer app I use, and probably other apps as well.
It's a recommendation; I don't remember what led to it but for sure I was involved.

I will recommend that MF provide both "shuffle them into the randomizer" and "have a separate deck of Events and deal out 1-2 every game."
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #335 on: November 20, 2015, 04:45:19 pm »
0

Taxman/Stables: Stables often draws you a bunch of cards, so you can Taxman just the right treasure to smooth your economy and hit the price point you need. It also guarantees you a treasure in your next hand. Just watch out for opposing Taxmen.

I would say this is not incredibly noteworthy.  Yes, Taxman likes treasures in your hand.  But you can get them into your hand with anything -- Lab, Governor, Tactician, etc.  It's kind of like saying Scrying Pool synergizes with Great Hall -- ya, it does, I guess, but it's nothing I'm going to write home about.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #336 on: November 20, 2015, 05:25:10 pm »
0

Taxman/Stables: Stables often draws you a bunch of cards, so you can Taxman just the right treasure to smooth your economy and hit the price point you need. It also guarantees you a treasure in your next hand. Just watch out for opposing Taxmen.

To piggyback on this...
Countinghouse/Stables The coppers you pitch to Stables will come right back into your hand! Also helps by digging for the Countinghouse and cycling your deck faster.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #337 on: November 22, 2015, 12:11:02 pm »
+11

This combo came up during UConn. Adam used it to win.

Trader/Save (Also, Moat/Save, which is probably even better.)

To have endless protection from attacks, never play your reaction. Instead, spend 1 coin to save it at the end of every turn.  With trader, this is a viable big-money strategy in the face of junkers. With trader, watch out for pillage!!!

Any other UConnbos?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #338 on: November 22, 2015, 07:06:53 pm »
+5

This combo came up during UConn. Adam used it to win.

Ah, the perils of being less famous.  ;)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #339 on: November 22, 2015, 10:55:50 pm »
+2

When Possessing someone, turn all their Disciples into Teachers, and all their Warriors into Heroes.  This is provided they already have a Teacher or Champion, of course.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #340 on: November 23, 2015, 10:29:27 am »
0

Trader/Save (Also, Moat/Save, which is probably even better.)

DEPENDS ON THE KINGDOM LOL
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #341 on: November 23, 2015, 10:30:26 am »
+3

Summon/Transmogrify was pretty good. Grsbmd used it quite a few times in the finals to good effect.

Transmogrify's main drawback is that it's really slow and can miss shuffles, but Summon gets it in play right away if you want it.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #342 on: November 23, 2015, 11:25:11 am »
0

Summon/Transmogrify was pretty good. Grsbmd used it quite a few times in the finals to good effect.

Transmogrify's main drawback is that it's really slow and can miss shuffles, but Summon gets it in play right away if you want it.

Along those same lines, you could probably also Prince a Transmogrify and have it be pretty good, though I've never actually tried this.  Since it's the start of your turn when you play it, you can call it back right away and discard it every turn (I think Prince should still be able to set it aside even though it was on the Tavern Mat instantaneously).  It would be similar in spirit one of those Procession-based engines, I guess.  On some boards, it might be great, but a lot of times, there's probably something better to Prince.

Edit: :( I guess we'll just have to stick with Summon + Transmogrify
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 09:10:05 am by grsbmd »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #343 on: November 23, 2015, 11:32:39 am »
+2

Summon/Transmogrify was pretty good. Grsbmd used it quite a few times in the finals to good effect.

Transmogrify's main drawback is that it's really slow and can miss shuffles, but Summon gets it in play right away if you want it.

Along those same lines, you could probably also Prince a Transmogrify and have it be pretty good, though I've never actually tried this.  Since it's the start of your turn when you play it, you can call it back right away and discard it every turn (I think Prince should still be able to set it aside even though it was on the Tavern Mat instantaneously).  It would be similar in spirit one of those Procession-based engines, I guess.  On some boards, it might be great, but a lot of times, there's probably something better to Prince.

This doesn't work, unfortunately. Prince loses track.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #344 on: November 24, 2015, 08:26:54 am »
+2

I don't know how well known these combos already are, but they haven't been mentioned here:

Ball/Bridge Troll: Like with the other cost reduction cards, a 5$ hand can give you two 5-costs. What makes this special is that the drawback of Ball is basically mitigated by your opponent playing a Brdige Troll anyway.

Inheritance/Followers No longer do you have a crippling attack that self-junks you, but a crippling attack which gains you a nice card on top. The only problem is having to hit eight and seven once, but the combo is still great when you inherit something after playing followers a few times (or the lovely 7$ hands before hitting Province, obviously)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #345 on: November 24, 2015, 08:45:33 am »
0

I don't know how well known these combos already are, but they haven't been mentioned here:

Ball/Bridge Troll: Like with the other cost reduction cards, a 5$ hand can give you two 5-costs. What makes this special is that the drawback of Ball is basically mitigated by your opponent playing a Brdige Troll anyway.

Inheritance/Followers No longer do you have a crippling attack that self-junks you, but a crippling attack which gains you a nice card on top. The only problem is having to hit eight and seven once, but the combo is still great when you inherit something after playing followers a few times (or the lovely 7$ hands before hitting Province, obviously)

I'm pretty sure Followers is a combo unto itself. Once you have it, you win.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #346 on: November 24, 2015, 10:39:25 am »
+1

I'm pretty sure Followers is a combo unto itself. Once you have it, you win.

Only when the kingdom is weak. In strong kingdoms, it's not even worth getting always.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #347 on: November 24, 2015, 02:09:06 pm »
+1

Ball/Bridge Troll: Like with the other cost reduction cards, a 5$ hand can give you two 5-costs. What makes this special is that the drawback of Ball is basically mitigated by your opponent playing a Brdige Troll anyway.

This can be a great combo, but also a trap if you're not careful. Bridge Troll does absolutely nothing to help you reach $5 to buy Ball (because it doesn't lower the cost of Events). Many times I bought a Bridge Troll early and then waited for another $5 hand that never came (or came too late). Make sure you have the real economy to make the combo actually work.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #348 on: November 25, 2015, 12:20:09 am »
0

Secret Chamber/Moat

Reveal SC, draw Moat into hand.
Reveal Moat to be protected from Attack.
Reveal SC again to put Moat back on top of deck.
If you know your opponent isn't going to play any more Attacks, put SC on top as well.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #349 on: November 25, 2015, 01:05:44 am »
0

Secret Chamber/Moat

Reveal SC, draw Moat into hand.
Reveal Moat to be protected from Attack.
Reveal SC again to put Moat back on top of deck.
If you know your opponent isn't going to play any more Attacks, put SC on top as well.

I would say that is neat, but it it must be compared to opportunity cost.  Moat and SC are both generally bad $2 cards, and attack cards that are worth buying are (obviously I'm generalizing here) usually good cads.  So getting the Moat and SC in the first place (much less having enough of each of them to reliably connect in the manner you describe) should be compared to having other better cards instead.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #350 on: November 25, 2015, 03:19:07 am »
0

Secret Chamber/Moat

Reveal SC, draw Moat into hand.
Reveal Moat to be protected from Attack.
Reveal SC again to put Moat back on top of deck.
If you know your opponent isn't going to play any more Attacks, put SC on top as well.

I would say that is neat, but it it must be compared to opportunity cost.  Moat and SC are both generally bad $2 cards, and attack cards that are worth buying are (obviously I'm generalizing here) usually good cads.  So getting the Moat and SC in the first place (much less having enough of each of them to reliably connect in the manner you describe) should be compared to having other better cards instead.

An unlikely but neat case is when your opponent is consistently playing one attack card and you're not drawing any cards. You can continuously nullify the attack and topdeck both cards for next turn.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #351 on: November 27, 2015, 10:26:01 am »
+5

Poor house/hamlet
Open hamlet/hamlet
Get one poorhouse second shuffle, also get more hamlets
Buy 1-3 moor poorhouses third shuffle also get more hamlets
Play hamlets to  discards treasures play two poorhouses buy province
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #352 on: November 27, 2015, 12:01:18 pm »
0

transmogrify / guide use the transmorgify at the start of your turn to trash and then call guide to draw a new hand of five cards. works best with multiple transmogrifies on your tavern mat.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #353 on: November 27, 2015, 12:05:38 pm »
+2

transmogrify / guide use the transmorgify at the start of your turn to trash and then call guide to draw a new hand of five cards. works best with multiple transmogrifies on your tavern mat.

I think you mean Ratcatcher/Guide.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #354 on: November 27, 2015, 12:11:38 pm »
0

transmogrify / guide use the transmorgify at the start of your turn to trash and then call guide to draw a new hand of five cards. works best with multiple transmogrifies on your tavern mat.

I think you mean Ratcatcher/Guide.
Unless you're gaining Tunnels with Transmogrify, but that's a three-card interaction.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #355 on: November 27, 2015, 12:20:33 pm »
+2

transmogrify / guide use the transmorgify at the start of your turn to trash and then call guide to draw a new hand of five cards. works best with multiple transmogrifies on your tavern mat.

The whole point of Transmogrify is that you get to use what you upgrade into right away. You can't trash and gain nothing with Transmogrify (excluding the edge case of an empty Copper and Curse pile).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #356 on: November 27, 2015, 04:31:56 pm »
+3

transmogrify / guide use the transmorgify at the start of your turn to trash and then call guide to draw a new hand of five cards. works best with multiple transmogrifies on your tavern mat.

The whole point of Transmogrify is that you get to use what you upgrade into right away. You can't trash and gain nothing with Transmogrify (excluding the edge case of an empty Copper and Curse pile).

Well we played that card completely wrong last night  :-[. I'm going to pretend that we used ratcatcher in my memories instead...

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #357 on: November 27, 2015, 05:03:44 pm »
0

Ratcatcher(Transmogrify)/market square

Wait until you have market square in hand
Call Ratcatcher(Transmogrify) for free gold
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #358 on: November 28, 2015, 01:57:20 am »
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My keyboard finger is itching to post some of Scout's overlooked neat and potentially useful card interactions.

I'll post later tonight or tomorrow morning unless people strongly advise me against this.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #359 on: November 28, 2015, 04:23:53 am »
+7

My keyboard finger is itching to post some of Scout's overlooked neat and potentially useful card interactions.

I'll post later tonight or tomorrow morning unless people strongly advise me against this.

I believe this thread is intended for card interactions that can actually be useful in practice.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #360 on: November 28, 2015, 06:52:49 am »
+8

My keyboard finger is itching to post some of Scout's overlooked neat and potentially useful card interactions.

I'll post later tonight or tomorrow morning unless people strongly advise me against this.

Watchtower/Messenger/Scout
Allows you to buy a Messenger and give each opponent a Scout. It's a three-card-interaction, but sooooooo nasty.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #361 on: November 28, 2015, 09:42:47 am »
+4

My keyboard finger is itching to post some of Scout's overlooked neat and potentially useful card interactions.

I'll post later tonight or tomorrow morning unless people strongly advise me against this.

Watchtower/Messenger/Scout
Allows you to buy a Messenger and give each opponent a Scout. It's a three-card-interaction, but sooooooo nasty.

You'd think Curse would be better for this, but Curse can at least be drawn by Vagrant!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #362 on: November 28, 2015, 09:54:11 am »
0

You'd think Curse would be better for this, but Curse can at least be drawn by Vagrant!

And discarded for Mountebank, skipped by Sage and Golem, and trashed for less benefit.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #363 on: November 28, 2015, 10:02:31 am »
+1

Also, it's much more likely that the Curse pile is empty than that the Scout pile is.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #364 on: November 28, 2015, 12:10:53 pm »
+10

Madman + Expedition
Increase your starting handsize so that your Madman draws more cards.  Plus, because Expedition isn't a card, you can buy it and get a Madman on the same turn.

I was thinking about what the best supporting card was for the Hermit + Market Square combo.  I realized that, by buying Expedition on the turn before the megaturn, one only needs to play two Madmen to fully draw a deck of 24 cards (instead of the usual three).  This saves about two turns in the best case scenario.  Best-case solitaire log:

Code: [Select]
1: CCCEE - Buy Hermit
2: CCCCE - Buy Hermit
3: _HCCCE - Trash Estate, Gain Hermit, Buy Market Square
4: HCCCE - Gain Market Square, Buy Market Square
5: EC_HCC - Gain Hermit, Buy Market Square
6: SSHCCCC - Gain Market Square, Buy Expedition, Gain Madman
7: SHE_MCCCE - Gain Market Square, Gain Madman
8: SSSHC - Gain Hermit, Gain Madman
9: SHCCC - Gain Hermit, Buy Expedition, Gain Madman
10: _MMMMHHS - Megaturn with 6x Market Square (45 coins)

Madman + Mission is also worth mentioning.  You can gain a Madman on the turn you buy mission and the mission turn itself.  In practice, it's unlikely to get 4 coins every other turn in a Hermit + Market Square combo.  It is theoretically possible to reach the megaturn on turn 9, though.

Code: [Select]
1: CCCEE - Buy Hermit
2: CCCCE - Buy Hermit
3: _HCCCE - Trash Estate, Gain Hermit, Buy Market Square
4: HCCCE - Gain Market Square, Buy Market Square
5: EC_HCC - Gain Hermit, Buy Market Square
6: SHCCCC - Gain Hermit, Buy Mission, Gain Madman
*: SSHEE_H - Gain Hermit, Gain Madman
7: SSHCCCC - Gain Market Square, Buy Mission, Gain Madman
*: MHCCC - Gain Market Square, Gain Madman
8: _SSHCCCC - Gain Hermit, Buy Mission, Gain Madman
*: SSHEECC - Gain Hermit, Gain Madman
9: MMMSC - Megaturn with 6x Market Square (48 coins)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #365 on: November 28, 2015, 01:35:19 pm »
+1

My IRL game last night had an interesting combo come up. The event cards were Ball and Travelling Fair.
http://dominion.diehrstraits.com/?set=Adventures if you are not familiar with the events.
Treasure map was also on the board. I discovered that with my first turn with 7 money, I buy Ball (so that I can put gained cards on top of my deck) then Travelling Fair, gaining two treasure maps. Guaranteed treasure map action! The other guys in my group also made that move as soon as they had 7 money too so it didn't give me the distinct advantage, but it was a fun combo to find.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #366 on: November 28, 2015, 10:17:26 pm »
0

menagerie/poor house
both of these want you to play your cards in a kinda weird order and generally avoid treasures, and you can juggle both of these with sorta the same amount of brainpower combined as each individually. pretty good deal
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #367 on: November 29, 2015, 08:40:37 am »
0

My IRL game last night had an interesting combo come up. The event cards were Ball and Travelling Fair.
http://dominion.diehrstraits.com/?set=Adventures if you are not familiar with the events.
Treasure map was also on the board. I discovered that with my first turn with 7 money, I buy Ball (so that I can put gained cards on top of my deck) then Travelling Fair, gaining two treasure maps. Guaranteed treasure map action! The other guys in my group also made that move as soon as they had 7 money too so it didn't give me the distinct advantage, but it was a fun combo to find.
It also works with royal seal and watchtower.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #368 on: November 29, 2015, 10:37:09 am »
+2

My IRL game last night had an interesting combo come up. The event cards were Ball and Travelling Fair.
http://dominion.diehrstraits.com/?set=Adventures if you are not familiar with the events.
Treasure map was also on the board. I discovered that with my first turn with 7 money, I buy Ball (so that I can put gained cards on top of my deck) then Travelling Fair, gaining two treasure maps. Guaranteed treasure map action! The other guys in my group also made that move as soon as they had 7 money too so it didn't give me the distinct advantage, but it was a fun combo to find.
It also works with royal seal and watchtower.
But then you need another source of +buy. Travelling fair is great because it provides both +buy and topdecking.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #369 on: November 29, 2015, 04:59:22 pm »
+15

Walled Village / Wine Merchant

Played a game over the weekend in meatspace where I had 2 Walled Villages and several Wine Merchants. Every turn, I would play both Walled Villages, play 2-3 Wine Merchants, and then since Wine Merchant goes on the Tavern mat and then (usually in this game) straight back to the discard pile, I was able to top both Walled Villages every turn and keep playing all my Wine Merchants when they arrived.

Was pretty good in a kingdom with not a whole lot else going on.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #370 on: November 30, 2015, 08:13:59 am »
+4

This isn't even subtle or remotely not-obvious, but have you ever played with Pathfinding + Magpie? It's crazy. Magpie becomes a Lab that either draws 3 cards, or draws you 2 cards and gives you another super-Laboratory for free. Magpie has great synergy with any of the counter Events, but Pathfinding is especially potent.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #371 on: November 30, 2015, 09:26:34 am »
+8

Border Village + Butcher

Buy Border Village, Gain Butcher.  Use Butcher to trash Border Village, Gain another Border Village, another 5-cost card, and 2 coin tokens!  Later in the game, use Butcher to turn the Border Villages and 5-cost cards into Provinces and Duchies.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #372 on: November 30, 2015, 10:37:08 am »
0

My IRL game last night had an interesting combo come up. The event cards were Ball and Travelling Fair.
http://dominion.diehrstraits.com/?set=Adventures if you are not familiar with the events.
Treasure map was also on the board. I discovered that with my first turn with 7 money, I buy Ball (so that I can put gained cards on top of my deck) then Travelling Fair, gaining two treasure maps. Guaranteed treasure map action! The other guys in my group also made that move as soon as they had 7 money too so it didn't give me the distinct advantage, but it was a fun combo to find.
It also works with royal seal and watchtower.
But then you need another source of +buy. Travelling fair is great because it provides both +buy and topdecking.
Ball serves as Psuedo + buy
Sorry I didn't realise you were still referring to ball. -.-'
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #373 on: November 30, 2015, 05:53:41 pm »
+21

These are both speculative, but they seem promising.

Cultist + Save

A Cultist chain is a great way to draw a bunch of other action cards you can't play!  Normally, to play other action cards after Cultist, you need to lead with a village.  But it takes a lot of villages to reliably open with a village.  It's really sad to open with no village, play a bunch of Cultists and draw a village (and other action cards).  Well, with Save and a couple villages, you only need to experience this sadness once; simply save the unplayed village for your next turn!  Rinse and repeat for a decent engine fueled off of Cultist's draw.

Cultist + Coin of the Realm

Or, even better, grab a couple Coins of the Realm.  Because they're treasures, you can play them after a Cultist chain.  On the next turn, you can play your Cultist chain and call Coin of the Realm if you have any other actions you want to play.  Play your second Coin of the Realm and you're in a great position!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #374 on: December 01, 2015, 07:27:53 pm »
0

These are both speculative, but they seem promising.

Cultist + Save

A Cultist chain is a great way to draw a bunch of other action cards you can't play!  Normally, to play other action cards after Cultist, you need to lead with a village.  But it takes a lot of villages to reliably open with a village.  It's really sad to open with no village, play a bunch of Cultists and draw a village (and other action cards).  Well, with Save and a couple villages, you only need to experience this sadness once; simply save the unplayed village for your next turn!  Rinse and repeat for a decent engine fueled off of Cultist's draw.

Cultist + Coin of the Realm

Or, even better, grab a couple Coins of the Realm.  Because they're treasures, you can play them after a Cultist chain.  On the next turn, you can play your Cultist chain and call Coin of the Realm if you have any other actions you want to play.  Play your second Coin of the Realm and you're in a great position!

Haven, Fishing Village, Scheme, Courtyard, Mandarin, and Gear can all do this too.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #375 on: December 01, 2015, 08:14:00 pm »
+7

Courtyard just makes the village-less problem worse, and so does haven, as it can't be played first without nerfing your current hand.

Fishing village is a better than average village for cultist for the reasons above, but the rest of those aren't nearly as good as Save or Coin of the Realm, which don't require actions to use.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #376 on: December 04, 2015, 03:33:40 am »
+17

Bonfire + Hunting grounds

On your last turn, buy 6VP for $3.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #377 on: December 04, 2015, 08:52:52 am »
+11

Bonfire + Hunting grounds

On your last turn, buy 6VP for $3.
Cool.  Bonfire + Squire might also be a decent way to get expensive attacks like Goons, Familiar, and Scrying Pool.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #378 on: December 05, 2015, 05:28:33 am »
+1

Training + Scheme.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #379 on: December 05, 2015, 08:41:20 pm »
0

Training + Scheme.
Better: pathfinding +scheme
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #380 on: December 05, 2015, 08:55:43 pm »
+23

Training + Scheme.
Better: pathfinding +scheme

I think you guys just came up with treasury and alchemist.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #381 on: December 07, 2015, 05:13:29 am »
+2

Training + Scheme.
Better: pathfinding +scheme

I think you guys just came up with treasury and alchemist.

Uh, no. Maybe I should have elaborated a little more on how training+scheme works, but there's three substantial differences to "treasury-BM":

- it's easier to get 5 schemes and training than 5 treasuries
- putting itself on top is just the default strategy, scheme additionally has the competence to chose another card whenever it's better
- scheme stays on deck while greening

It's mostly the latter that makes it a legit combo. Even without any support, the plan is quite simple: Get some silvers, some schemes, training on your first 6$, go green. Example given: 5 schemes + 3 silvers + training -> you start every hand with 5$ + 5 random cards and will likely hit a province per turn. Assume that you fail once, you'll have 4 provs in 14 turns. That's not terrific, but it beats smithy-bm. Also, it can be improved easily with e.g. a gainer, +buy, an estate trasher, a terminal silver, outpost ...
Sure, it's not the best combo ever if you get 4 provs in 12 to 14 turns, but it's decent. And unless there's some handsize attacks, scheme+training is extremely reliable while greening. Treasury isn't ;)










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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #382 on: December 07, 2015, 07:35:02 am »
+8

Gear + Tournament

So you want a gear for every ~7-8 cards in your deck, right? And you want Tournament to collide with a Province? With Gear you expand the range of cards Tournament collides with from 4 to 11; two more on the Gear draw and 5 more next turn. It doesn't matter if you draw the Tournament or Province dead - you just set both of them aside for next turn. You virtually guarantee a Tournament pickup the shuffle after you gain a Province.

Gear + Forager

Many terminal draw BM strategies can't really incorporate trashing as they could draw the trasher dead. But not Gear! Gear loves trashing. You can set aside the trasher you dead drew, plus the card you want to get rid of!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #383 on: December 07, 2015, 02:10:36 pm »
+2

Gear is just the best.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #384 on: December 07, 2015, 02:16:11 pm »
+3

Gear is just the best.

 :'(

It's sad because it's true.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #385 on: December 07, 2015, 02:19:49 pm »
+10

Storyteller/bank
After drawing about 92 treasures with storyteller play bank to get 1$ out of every treasure you have played. Works well with +buy
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #386 on: December 08, 2015, 12:13:18 pm »
+4

I think Highway will become more popular because of its numerous synergies with cards from adventures.

Highway+Ferry:
Helps to get these highways in no time.

Highway+Artificer:
Any gainer is strong with highway; on-top, artificer does the gaining mid-turn, which can be a significant speed-up.

Highway+Bridge Troll:
Obvious one.

Highway+Ball:
Play Highway, buy ball, gain two highways. Play four highways, buy ball, gain two provinces.

Highway+Inheritance:
It's tough to hit $7 if all you have is highways; but if you're lucky, Inheritance might win you the highways split "7-5", while pseudotrashing estates. Mostly crucial.

Highway+Pathfinding:
Hitting 8$ is even harder, but if you manage to do it, your lab/highway-hybrids will connect in no time.

Highway+Teacher:
Well, Teacher combos with everything, but if you put your tokens "+card" and "+buy" on highway, it's gg.

Highway+Duplicate:
Use Duplicate to gain highways. Later on, duplicate your provinces (or colonies).

Highway + Seaway:
werothegreat described that one: Play a highway, put seaway on highway - all highways get the +buys desperately needed.

Highway+Plan:
Trashing cards while gaining highways is awesome.










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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #387 on: December 08, 2015, 12:33:35 pm »
0

Borrow/Save
Buy Borrow, then Save. Effectively topdeck a card from your hand for free.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #388 on: December 08, 2015, 04:23:19 pm »
0

Sage/Sea Hag

Open Sage/Sea Hag on a 4/3 especially if there's no trashing.  Buy nothing but sages until the pile is gone.  Play Sea Hag every turn to dominate the curse split. It is very unlikely that the opponent will be able to regroup in time to overcome a points deficit before you run out another cheap pile like estates.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #389 on: December 08, 2015, 09:29:30 pm »
+28

Copper + Estate

If you have 7 Coppers and 3 Estates, you can start another game of Dominion.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #390 on: December 09, 2015, 09:00:54 am »
+2

Copper + Estate

If you have 7 Coppers and 3 Estates, you can start another game of Dominion.

Sounds like a viable counter to someone trying to play sage/sea hag on you.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #391 on: December 09, 2015, 09:12:15 am »
+2

Highway+Teacher:
Well, Teacher combos with everything, but if you put your tokens "+card" and "+buy" on highway, it's gg.

Not sure, but I don't think that one works like that, since Teacher only let's you put a token on a supply pile you have no other tokens on. You could either make a Lab out of it that cheapens cards and still have that "Highway, why u no give +buy"-memish-problem or you could give Highway a nudge towards being a non-terminal bridge.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #392 on: December 09, 2015, 09:20:30 am »
+7

Sage/Sea Hag

Open Sage/Sea Hag on a 4/3 especially if there's no trashing.  Buy nothing but sages until the pile is gone.  Play Sea Hag every turn to dominate the curse split. It is very unlikely that the opponent will be able to regroup in time to overcome a points deficit before you run out another cheap pile like estates.

So I tried this, and it doesn't really work. If you have a starting hand of something like sage/sage/sage/copper/estate and the only thing that sages can draw is sea hag and other sages, then you will end with a hand of sea hag/copper/estate and you won't be able to buy anything. Flooding your deck with sages is just as terrible as it sounds. Even on a big money board, your opponent will be able to get one or two provinces and then spike some duchies, so you need to get duchies also to compete. But as soon as you get duchies, your sages will draw them. Yuck. 

The only way this strategy is ever going to work is if your opponent ignores sea hag AND trashing. IE: you can beat the MF bots with this, sometimes, in about 30 turns.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2015, 09:21:55 am by iguanaiguana »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #393 on: December 09, 2015, 11:41:51 am »
+6

Sage/Sea Hag is a decent opening.  Supplement with cards that actually do something after that.

Now HUNTING PARTY/Sea Hag works the way you seem to be thinking, and that's perfectly acceptable to spam.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #394 on: December 09, 2015, 03:16:09 pm »
0


So I tried this, and it doesn't really work. If you have a starting hand of something like sage/sage/sage/copper/estate and the only thing that sages can draw is sea hag and other sages, then you will end with a hand of sea hag/copper/estate and you won't be able to buy anything. Flooding your deck with sages is just as terrible as it sounds. Even on a big money board, your opponent will be able to get one or two provinces and then spike some duchies, so you need to get duchies also to compete. But as soon as you get duchies, your sages will draw them. Yuck. 

The only way this strategy is ever going to work is if your opponent ignores sea hag AND trashing. IE: you can beat the MF bots with this, sometimes, in about 30 turns.

It's possible that I got lucky to hit 3 enough times to make it work out.  I have done it against several opponents and they had ignored Sea Hag initially until they had already been hit 4 or 5 times in a row.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #395 on: December 09, 2015, 04:11:24 pm »
0


So I tried this, and it doesn't really work. If you have a starting hand of something like sage/sage/sage/copper/estate and the only thing that sages can draw is sea hag and other sages, then you will end with a hand of sea hag/copper/estate and you won't be able to buy anything. Flooding your deck with sages is just as terrible as it sounds. Even on a big money board, your opponent will be able to get one or two provinces and then spike some duchies, so you need to get duchies also to compete. But as soon as you get duchies, your sages will draw them. Yuck. 

The only way this strategy is ever going to work is if your opponent ignores sea hag AND trashing. IE: you can beat the MF bots with this, sometimes, in about 30 turns.

It's possible that I got lucky to hit 3 enough times to make it work out.  I have done it against several opponents and they had ignored Sea Hag initially until they had already been hit 4 or 5 times in a row.

I am willing to believe that some variant of this works with support... But if you literally don't buy anything except sages, estates, and a single sea hag, I have my doubts. Even to beat a MF bot using this strategy, I still had to pick up a silver so I could spike duchy...
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #396 on: December 09, 2015, 05:05:50 pm »
0


So I tried this, and it doesn't really work. If you have a starting hand of something like sage/sage/sage/copper/estate and the only thing that sages can draw is sea hag and other sages, then you will end with a hand of sea hag/copper/estate and you won't be able to buy anything. Flooding your deck with sages is just as terrible as it sounds. Even on a big money board, your opponent will be able to get one or two provinces and then spike some duchies, so you need to get duchies also to compete. But as soon as you get duchies, your sages will draw them. Yuck. 

The only way this strategy is ever going to work is if your opponent ignores sea hag AND trashing. IE: you can beat the MF bots with this, sometimes, in about 30 turns.

It's possible that I got lucky to hit 3 enough times to make it work out.  I have done it against several opponents and they had ignored Sea Hag initially until they had already been hit 4 or 5 times in a row.
That's probably the main problem then.  Ignoring sea hag when your opponent does not, is basically game over, especially when there isn't any viable trashing.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #397 on: December 09, 2015, 05:53:34 pm »
0

Gear is just the best.

 :'(

It's sad because it's true.
Why sad?  Don't you like Gear.  I know I do.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #398 on: December 09, 2015, 06:15:21 pm »
+16

Gear is just the best.

 :'(

It's sad because it's true.
Why sad?  Don't you like Gear.  I know I do.

I do not like it, microman. I do not like BM-Gear spam.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #399 on: December 09, 2015, 06:46:49 pm »
+4

Gear is just the best.

 :'(

It's sad because it's true.
Why sad?  Don't you like Gear.  I know I do.

I do not like it, microman. I do not like BM-Gear spam.

But do you like it in a box?  Do you like it with a fox?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #400 on: December 09, 2015, 07:19:28 pm »
+24

I do not like it, microman. I do not like BM-Gear spam.

But do you like it in a box?  Do you like it with a fox?

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #401 on: December 10, 2015, 07:30:49 am »
+1

Gear is just the best.

 :'(

It's sad because it's true.
Why sad?  Don't you like Gear.  I know I do.

I do not like it, microman. I do not like BM-Gear spam.

I'm still not a believer in Gear. I'll concede that it's on par with Smithy-BM or a bit better than that, but beyond that? I don't see it.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #402 on: December 10, 2015, 08:51:34 am »
+2

Gear is just the best.

 :'(

It's sad because it's true.
Why sad?  Don't you like Gear.  I know I do.

I do not like it, microman. I do not like BM-Gear spam.

I'm still not a believer in Gear. I'll concede that it's on par with Smithy-BM or a bit better than that, but beyond that? I don't see it.

13 turns, man.  13 turns.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2015, 08:52:51 am by werothegreat »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #403 on: December 10, 2015, 10:22:58 am »
+7

I'd be surprised if this wasn't already discussed a lot, but I don't remember specifically reading about it, so....

Procession + Feast. Gain 3 s instead of just the normal 1 you'd get with Feast or the 2 you'd get with Throne Room + Feast.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #404 on: December 10, 2015, 10:51:53 am »
0

Also works with King's Court (and is slightly better with it).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #405 on: December 10, 2015, 11:41:28 am »
+3

Also works with King's Court (and is slightly better with it).

The only thing KC/Feast can do that Procession/Feast can't is gain a set of 3 cards where each is either non-action or costs less than $5. If for any time you use this combo at least one card you gain is both an action and costs $5, King's Court does the same thing and costs a lot more. I admit a possible reason to go for King's Court (besides the usual awesomeness of KC) would be the option to gain 3 Duchies.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #406 on: December 10, 2015, 12:56:02 pm »
0

Oh, i forgot: King's Cout is also better if you played a card to reduce costs.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #407 on: December 12, 2015, 08:07:14 pm »
+2

Beggar/Counting House.

This seems to be ok on weak colony boards. Just buy nothing but Beggar, Colony and Counting House the entire game. Resilient against most attacks. Seems pretty fast.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #408 on: December 16, 2015, 09:02:51 am »
+4

Contraband + Fairgrounds

This is hardly a power combo, but it is a pretty cool synergy.  The presence of Fairgrounds (along with conditions sufficient to make it worth pursuing) ameliorates Contraband's downside.  While you're developing a deck with a variety of components, a ban on one particular component is rarely impactful.  When you're greening, a single ban isn't crippling, because you're often willing to pick up Provinces or Fairgrounds (or a single Duchy).  Contraband, with its healthy coin payload and additional buy, makes it easier to pick up the variety of kingdom cards needed to fuel Fairgrounds.

(I belatedly notice that this synergy is mentioned in the strategy section for both cards on the Wiki.  Oh well, I guess I'm unlikely to discover novel synergies that don't include Adventures cards at this point...)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #409 on: December 17, 2015, 02:46:41 pm »
0

Also works with King's Court (and is slightly better with it).

Yeah but KC is a $7, Procession is a $4. Of course KC is going to be more powerful.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #410 on: December 18, 2015, 08:43:49 pm »
+1

I'm sorry if this was pointed out before, but Possession/Haunted Woods seems to offer a way to lock an opponent out of the game - provided his deck is good enough. Which is especially nasty as if, in a 2 player game, both build an engine to draw their deck, the one to be able and play Possession/Haunted Woods first, has a good chance to win just because of this.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #411 on: December 19, 2015, 01:05:15 am »
+1

Gear + Trader

Gear BM is very good by itself; it races to 4 Provinces as fast as any single card (I believe) and it is pretty consistent, because you can make your own shuffle luck.  However, Gear BM has trouble with junkers and maintaining momentum once it starts greening.  Enter Trader: one of Gear's best supporting cards.  Gear makes it easy to pair up Trader with your starting Estates, and Trader increases the average quality of your deck in two dimensions.  Gear + Trader isn't any faster to 4 Provinces, but it dominates in a long game, which makes it fare better against engines and when there is alternative VP.  Trader also handles junkers very well (it may be worth picking up a second Trader against some junkers).  It's also pretty fun to play (by BM standards)!

Strategy:
  • Open Gear + Trader.
  • Prioritize trashing your Estates with Trader.
  • Get a second Gear before the second or third reshuffle.  You'll want the second Gear early if you draw Gear on turn 4.  You'll want to wait if your first Gear doesn't arrive until turn 5.  I think it's correct to get Gear + Silver if you happen to draw your Gear on turn 3.
  • Try to get Gold + Gold on turns 5 and 6.
  • Aim for Provinces and Gold from turn 7 onwards, grabbing Duchies as dictated by your opponent's strategy.
  • If you have a dud hand with Trader, trash a Silver or Gold.  It might be correct to trash a Duchy or Province under some circumstances.

Solitaire Results:
I played three solitaire games with this strategy.  I got 48+ victory points by turn 17 in all three games.  In my first game, I mistakenly got a Province on turn 6, so it took a while to recover, but then I finished with 5 Province turns in a row to run out the pile!  In the second game, I grabbed some Duchies pretty early and ended with 6 Provinces and 4 Duchies.  In the third game, I didn't manage to trash my third Estate, but I got 4 Provinces by turn 12 and finished with 7 Provinces, 2 Duchies, and an Estate.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #412 on: December 19, 2015, 02:59:51 am »
+2

I'm sorry if this was pointed out before, but Possession/Haunted Woods seems to offer a way to lock an opponent out of the game - provided his deck is good enough. Which is especially nasty as if, in a 2 player game, both build an engine to draw their deck, the one to be able and play Possession/Haunted Woods first, has a good chance to win just because of this.

Stef described this combo in an Adventures preview thread:

This is indeed a combo with possession. (unlike possession-forge, which has such bizarre requirements it will never work in practice)
I've been on the receiving end of this combo and can confirm it's very painful. The requirements are:

* both possession and haunted woods on the board
* a village
* a way to trash cards

Then you both spot this combo and go for it. One of you will be slightly faster then the other. You will possess, buy a copper, topdeck 5 bad cards and they have a dud turn. You will possess again, and now you get to play with their deck minus the 5 bad cards. That is probably good enough to draw the deck again and voila 5 bad cards on top again. You do need to buy a copper every time you possess them, so you should also include a way to get rid of that copper on your own turns.

All in all it's about on par with Possession-Ambassador and Possession-Masquerade - if you end up on the losing side you simply lose the game.
But if you both accept this race as 'the new game to play' it's still a fun one to play out. Just resign once you're blocked out in stead of letting the agony get to you.
In theory you could hope to buy so many coppers on the turns you still do get to play that your own deck becomes so bad they can't keep it up, but no... no thanks.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #413 on: December 19, 2015, 04:40:47 am »
0

I'm sorry if this was pointed out before, but Possession/Haunted Woods seems to offer a way to lock an opponent out of the game - provided his deck is good enough. Which is especially nasty as if, in a 2 player game, both build an engine to draw their deck, the one to be able and play Possession/Haunted Woods first, has a good chance to win just because of this.

Stef described this combo in an Adventures preview thread:

This is indeed a combo with possession. (unlike possession-forge, which has such bizarre requirements it will never work in practice)
I've been on the receiving end of this combo and can confirm it's very painful. The requirements are:

* both possession and haunted woods on the board
* a village
* a way to trash cards

Then you both spot this combo and go for it. One of you will be slightly faster then the other. You will possess, buy a copper, topdeck 5 bad cards and they have a dud turn. You will possess again, and now you get to play with their deck minus the 5 bad cards. That is probably good enough to draw the deck again and voila 5 bad cards on top again. You do need to buy a copper every time you possess them, so you should also include a way to get rid of that copper on your own turns.

All in all it's about on par with Possession-Ambassador and Possession-Masquerade - if you end up on the losing side you simply lose the game.
But if you both accept this race as 'the new game to play' it's still a fun one to play out. Just resign once you're blocked out in stead of letting the agony get to you.
In theory you could hope to buy so many coppers on the turns you still do get to play that your own deck becomes so bad they can't keep it up, but no... no thanks.

Thanks. Thinking of it, this seems familiar. But why in the world is he talking about buying a Copper? A deck that draws itself should be able to pick up engine parts instead, making it easier, not harder, to repeat the process. I guess it's the case if your opponent's deck has so little money it can't buy anything better (sans the five bad cards), but that makes trashing the premise for a situation where you need trashing. Which is especially weird as he immediately before talked about going for Possession, which costs quite a lot...

The interaction  is also interesting in that an opponent's Haunted Woods may actually help you to line up your Potion with enough money to buy Possession.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 04:42:57 am by Asper »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #414 on: December 19, 2015, 08:17:29 am »
0

I'm sorry if this was pointed out before, but Possession/Haunted Woods seems to offer a way to lock an opponent out of the game - provided his deck is good enough. Which is especially nasty as if, in a 2 player game, both build an engine to draw their deck, the one to be able and play Possession/Haunted Woods first, has a good chance to win just because of this.

Stef described this combo in an Adventures preview thread:

This is indeed a combo with possession. (unlike possession-forge, which has such bizarre requirements it will never work in practice)
I've been on the receiving end of this combo and can confirm it's very painful. The requirements are:

* both possession and haunted woods on the board
* a village
* a way to trash cards

Then you both spot this combo and go for it. One of you will be slightly faster then the other. You will possess, buy a copper, topdeck 5 bad cards and they have a dud turn. You will possess again, and now you get to play with their deck minus the 5 bad cards. That is probably good enough to draw the deck again and voila 5 bad cards on top again. You do need to buy a copper every time you possess them, so you should also include a way to get rid of that copper on your own turns.

All in all it's about on par with Possession-Ambassador and Possession-Masquerade - if you end up on the losing side you simply lose the game.
But if you both accept this race as 'the new game to play' it's still a fun one to play out. Just resign once you're blocked out in stead of letting the agony get to you.
In theory you could hope to buy so many coppers on the turns you still do get to play that your own deck becomes so bad they can't keep it up, but no... no thanks.

Thanks. Thinking of it, this seems familiar. But why in the world is he talking about buying a Copper? A deck that draws itself should be able to pick up engine parts instead, making it easier, not harder, to repeat the process. I guess it's the case if your opponent's deck has so little money it can't buy anything better (sans the five bad cards), but that makes trashing the premise for a situation where you need trashing. Which is especially weird as he immediately before talked about going for Possession, which costs quite a lot...

The interaction  is also interesting in that an opponent's Haunted Woods may actually help you to line up your Potion with enough money to buy Possession.

You want to have them topdeck 5 cards that won't work togehter (like 5 terminal draw cards, 5 Victory cards, etc), so to keep those cards in hand you generally don't focus on building up much of an economy that turn. Every card you play is a card that can't go on your opponent's deck.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #415 on: December 19, 2015, 03:33:22 pm »
+3

Another BM synergy:

Courtyard + Quest

Courtyard provides the 6-card hands to guarantee Gold via Quest.  Courtyard can save Gold for the next turn when a Province is out of reach.  Simple and effective.  This strategy is very fast, reliable, and pretty resilient to greening.  It gets destroyed by any handsize attack, though.

Strategy:
  • Open Courtyard + Courtyard.
  • Whenever you have the coin, buy a Province.
  • If not, use Quest to gain a Gold (or buy a Duchy late-game).
  • If you have a hand with no Courtyard, buy a third Courtyard or a Duchy.
Solitaire Results:
I played three solitaire games with this strategy.  In the first two, I stopped at turn 13, after acquiring 33 VP.  In the first game, I ended with 5 Provinces, 5 Golds, and 3 Courtyards.  In the second game, I ended with 4 Provinces, 2 Duchies, 5 Golds, and 2 Courtyards.  In the third game, I decided to simulate playing against alt-VP.  I bought all 8 Provinces by turn 18.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 03:34:56 pm by aku_chi »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #416 on: December 19, 2015, 03:50:19 pm »
+3

Another BM synergy:

Courtyard + Quest

Courtyard provides the 6-card hands to guarantee Gold via Quest.  Courtyard can save Gold for the next turn when a Province is out of reach.  Simple and effective.  This strategy is very fast, reliable, and pretty resilient to greening.  It gets destroyed by any handsize attack, though.

Strategy:
  • Open Courtyard + Courtyard.
  • Whenever you have the coin, buy a Province.
  • If not, use Quest to gain a Gold (or buy a Duchy late-game).
  • If you have a hand with no Courtyard, buy a third Courtyard or a Duchy.
Solitaire Results:
I played three solitaire games with this strategy.  In the first two, I stopped at turn 13, after acquiring 33 VP.  In the first game, I ended with 5 Provinces, 5 Golds, and 3 Courtyards.  In the second game, I ended with 4 Provinces, 2 Duchies, 5 Golds, and 2 Courtyards.  In the third game, I decided to simulate playing against alt-VP.  I bought all 8 Provinces by turn 18.

You know what's even better though? Gear + Quest! You can always set aside exactly as many cards as you did the previous turn and still guarantee a Gold, plus you can keep those golds shuffling along for Province buys!

Gear is still the best
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #417 on: December 19, 2015, 04:48:15 pm »
+4

You know what's even better though? Gear + Quest! You can always set aside exactly as many cards as you did the previous turn and still guarantee a Gold, plus you can keep those golds shuffling along for Province buys!

Gear is still the best
I played a few solitaire games with Gear + Quest.  I had fantastic draws in my first game and got to 5 Provinces by turn 12!  The next game, my draws were poor and it took me 16 turns to get the same amount of VP (I'm willing to believe that I played this sub-optimally).  I thought the draws on my third game were hit and miss, but I managed to get 5 Provinces by turn 12 again (and an additional 9 VP by turn 14 - though my turn 15 was terrible).

My verdict: Gear + Quest is about as powerful as Courtyard + Quest, but less reliable and less synergistic.
Reliability: With Courtyard, you can always save a card and get a Gold.  So, if Courtyards collide, you simply set one aside for the next turn.  With Gear, you have to make a choice: set aside cards, or gain a Gold.  This is a tough choice.  The Gear + Quest strategy becomes really strong when you can set aside two cards and get a Gold or Province each turn.  To start that up, though, I found myself needing to be able to buy a Gold outright on a Gear turn (maybe I should have considered buying a Silver).  Plus, the moment you miss a Gear, you have a tough dilemma next turn: set aside or discard for Gold.
Synergy: With Courtyard + Quest, I managed to go 18 turns, purchasing 8 Provinces, and only had one non-Province, non-Quest, non-Courtyard purchase (an Estate on turn 17).  That's beautiful synergy.  With Gear + Quest, I only ended up using Quest 2-3 times per game; I bought at least as many Gold outright.  The strategy was effective mostly because Gear BM is effective.  The presence of Quest makes Courtyard more better than Gear (even though the two strategies are equally effective), if that makes sense.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #418 on: December 21, 2015, 10:13:06 am »
+5

One good enabler I haven't seen listed here is Storeroom + Duchy/Duke.  Duchy/Duke decks typically struggle from getting overwhelmed with green cards.  With Storeroom (assuming no hand-size attacks), as long as you have a Silver in the other 4 cards in your hand or in your top 4 cards, you are guaranteed a 5-cost card.  So Storeroom continues to grab 5-cost cards even with a very low money density.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #419 on: December 21, 2015, 10:34:12 am »
+1

One good enabler I haven't seen listed here is Storeroom + Duchy/Duke.  Duchy/Duke decks typically struggle from getting overwhelmed with green cards.  With Storeroom (assuming no hand-size attacks), as long as you have a Silver in the other 4 cards in your hand or in your top 4 cards, you are guaranteed a 5-cost card.  So Storeroom continues to grab 5-cost cards even with a very low money density.
Also keeps yourmoney density up when you spends its extra buys on copper.

It's very similar to Horse Traders/Duke in that respect, except Horse Traders/Duke is a bit more resilient to discard attacks.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #420 on: December 22, 2015, 10:18:11 am »
+3

Stonemason + Border Village + Duke (really, any 5, though)

Obvious synergy here - for $8, get a Stonemason, two $6 Villages, two of anything you want. Great for engines, but also great for Duke / Duchy, because you can then play Stonemason to trash the BV to get two MORE $5 cost cards, and Stonemason helps rush piles, speeding up Duke / Duchy a lot.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 10:49:56 am by Chris is me »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #421 on: December 22, 2015, 11:10:16 am »
+6

One good enabler I haven't seen listed here is Storeroom + Duchy/Duke.  Duchy/Duke decks typically struggle from getting overwhelmed with green cards.  With Storeroom (assuming no hand-size attacks), as long as you have a Silver in the other 4 cards in your hand or in your top 4 cards, you are guaranteed a 5-cost card.  So Storeroom continues to grab 5-cost cards even with a very low money density.
Also keeps yourmoney density up when you spends its extra buys on copper.

It's very similar to Horse Traders/Duke in that respect, except Horse Traders/Duke is a bit more resilient to discard attacks.

Seems to me with Storeroom/Duke you actually don't want the extra Coppers. The name of the game is to line up Storeroom with Silver, so Coppers aren't helping you hit $5 here.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #422 on: January 07, 2016, 09:07:13 am »
+12

Artificer + Poor House

As the only 1-cost card, Poor House is uniquely trivial to gain with Artificer.  And Artificer can make your Poor Houses more powerful by selectively discarding treasures (for benefit!).

Artificer + Native Village

Gaining victory cards with Artificer is usually not ideal, because they go on top of your deck.  But with Native Village, this is a feature!  You can reliably gain victory cards and store them away on your Native Village mat.  Plus, Native Villages are easy to gain with Artificer.

Artificer + Menagerie

A more obvious synergy.  Artificer can selectively discard cards to activate Menagerie.  Menagerie is also cheap enough to gain with Artificer.  Consider: a hand with Artificer + Menagerie + three other cards.  You can play the Artificer, discard three other cards to gain a Menagerie, play a (guaranteed activated) Menagerie and play the gained Menagerie.  You now have a 4 or 6 card hand with 1 coin and an extra Menagerie in your deck.  And that's a low bar on the synergy between these two cards.  Pretty cool.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 09:19:20 am by aku_chi »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #423 on: January 13, 2016, 02:26:44 am »
+16

alms (event) and hermit have a neat interaction.  You can buy alms on a hermit turn and still get a madman since paying for alms isn't technically buying a card.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #424 on: January 20, 2016, 01:40:03 pm »
+1

Not sure if this has been posted but transmogrify peddler is super good; better than any other trash for benefit peddler.
Transmogrify is super good at milling provinces.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #425 on: January 20, 2016, 02:36:14 pm »
+1

Not sure if this has been posted but transmogrify peddler is super good; better than any other trash for benefit peddler.

I don't think this is the case. I mean sure you're sometimes going to Transmogrify Peddlers into Provinces, but I think Butcher is trivially a better combo with Peddler.

Transmogrify is super good at milling provinces.

That's certainly true.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #426 on: January 20, 2016, 02:47:04 pm »
0

Not sure if this has been posted but transmogrify peddler is super good; better than any other trash for benefit peddler.

I don't think this is the case. I mean sure you're sometimes going to Transmogrify Peddlers into Provinces, but I think Butcher is trivially a better combo with Peddler.

I agree.  Transmogrify would certainly have benefits over Butcher in certain situations -- it costs less, it's non terminal, and you get to put the Platinum into your hand -- but I think Butcher is MUCH more powerful.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #427 on: January 20, 2016, 03:54:24 pm »
+1

I don't agree at all that butcher is better for this. Besides the fact that Transmogrify is non-terminal, you also just need one Province in hand to mill it several times.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #428 on: January 20, 2016, 04:34:20 pm »
+1

I don't agree at all that butcher is better for this. Besides the fact that Transmogrify is non-terminal, you also just need one Province in hand to mill it several times.

Transmogrify benefits:
  • costs less
  • non-terminal
  • gained card goes in hand (as a consequence, you could mill Provinces if you had multiple Transmogrifies)
  • can be called whenever
Butcher benefits:
  • coin tokens
  • can gain higher cost cards
  • can be directly played instead of called
  • can Throne/KC/Procession it
I'm sure there are things I'm missing.  Point I'm trying to make though is that each of these cards has their own pros and cons depending on the situation.  I still think Butcher is "better" (that is, it is more useful in more situations), but of course that could be debated.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #429 on: January 20, 2016, 04:36:53 pm »
0

I don't agree at all that butcher is better for this. Besides the fact that Transmogrify is non-terminal, you also just need one Province in hand to mill it several times.
Also you don't need to collide the province and your butcher. Transmogrify can just sit on your tavern mat waiting for the perfect time to end the game.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #430 on: January 20, 2016, 04:38:16 pm »
+7

Transmogrify only works at the start of your turn. It has considerably less search space for pairing it up with the card you want than, for instance, a Butcher played in an engine deck.

Transmogrify can also only be used every other turn.

Which isn't to say that Transmogrify can't do some of the things being suggested.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 04:40:21 pm by Mic Qsenoch »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #431 on: January 20, 2016, 05:28:27 pm »
+1

I don't agree at all that butcher is better for this. Besides the fact that Transmogrify is non-terminal, you also just need one Province in hand to mill it several times.

LF's reply was to your Limetime's assertion that Transmogrify-Peddler is "better than any other trash for benefit peddler.".  They're saying that Butcher is a better TfB with Peddler in general, not necessarily that it's better if your goal is purely to mill Provinces.

Edit: attribution!
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 06:16:46 pm by eHalcyon »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #432 on: January 20, 2016, 05:56:53 pm »
0

I don't agree at all that butcher is better for this. Besides the fact that Transmogrify is non-terminal, you also just need one Province in hand to mill it several times.

LF's reply was to your assertion that Transmogrify-Peddler is "better than any other trash for benefit peddler.".  They're saying that Butcher is a better TfB with Peddler in general, not necessarily that it's better if your goal is purely to mill Provinces.
I now renounce my claim that transmogrify  is a better tfb with peddler. I forgot about butcher. I think they are close
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #433 on: January 20, 2016, 11:44:47 pm »
+3

Another one that beat me in a recent game.
Cutpurse counters stables. Esp in multiples.
Original hand:
Stables*2, copper*2, estate

Opponent plays Cutpurse *2
Nooooo....
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #434 on: January 23, 2016, 03:55:50 pm »
+10

First post on the forum, hee hee.

Just now played a game where this came up and thought it was neat enough to let people know.
With Hermit and Squire in play, you can pretty much gain one expensive attack card of your choice every shuffle by trashing the Squire from your hand or from your discard pile, then gaining another Squire. Not exactly sure what the odds are of this happening, but they aren't bad. Best of all, when you're done gaining, you can turn the Hermit right into a Madman.

Of course, the combo is moot without strong attack cards or with a few strong $3s and $4s, but on those expensive boards where it feels like you're stuck at silver forever, it's a handy way to jumpstart an engine. Shame it only applies on specific boards.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #435 on: January 24, 2016, 09:38:11 am »
+7

Farming village/courtyard in a draw engine deck where you can't trash estates.

You play some village, then you play courtyard and put back an estate, then you play farming village. It mitigates the fact that Courtyard made you put a card back on your deck and helps you get through your deck a little faster in a weak engine.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #436 on: January 26, 2016, 06:02:11 pm »
0

Haven + Treasure Map

Haven might be the best Treasure Map enabler.  A Haven or two makes it very likely that you can match up your two Treasure Maps, but the synergy doesn't end there.  Haven also helps you smooth out your four Gold economy - especially in a single-buy kingdom.

I recently lost to an opponent that demonstrated the power of this synergy.  To be sure, there wasn't a whole lot going on in the kingdom otherwise*, so it was the ideal situation for Treasure Map.
* I tried for a thin single-Tactician deck to buy a Province and play Ambassador every 2-3 turns.  Our other opponent did not get an Ambassador and tried to spike Provinces occasionally with Warehouse + terminal Library.  It was a Shelters game, so Ambassador wasn't too dominant.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #437 on: January 26, 2016, 06:17:37 pm »
+2

I played Haven/Treasure Map once. The turn my Treasure Maps collided was the turn I got possessed. I resigned. Then cried.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #438 on: January 26, 2016, 07:00:43 pm »
+1

Haven + Treasure Map

Haven might be the best Treasure Map enabler.  A Haven or two makes it very likely that you can match up your two Treasure Maps, but the synergy doesn't end there.  Haven also helps you smooth out your four Gold economy - especially in a single-buy kingdom.

I recently lost to an opponent that demonstrated the power of this synergy.  To be sure, there wasn't a whole lot going on in the kingdom otherwise*, so it was the ideal situation for Treasure Map.
* I tried for a thin single-Tactician deck to buy a Province and play Ambassador every 2-3 turns.  Our other opponent did not get an Ambassador and tried to spike Provinces occasionally with Warehouse + terminal Library.  It was a Shelters game, so Ambassador wasn't too dominant.

I think I vastly prefer Warehouse-Treasure Map.  I wouldn't mind seeing some math, but my intuition is that Warehouse makes it much easier to align Treasure Maps.  Even if it misses, Warehouse speeds you along to the next shuffle to try again.  The sifting also helps you find and play your Gold more often.

I played Haven/Treasure Map once. The turn my Treasure Maps collided was the turn I got possessed. I resigned. Then cried.

If the other player already had Possession by that time, you were already in trouble.  :-\
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #439 on: January 26, 2016, 07:25:45 pm »
0

Haven + Treasure Map

Haven might be the best Treasure Map enabler.  A Haven or two makes it very likely that you can match up your two Treasure Maps, but the synergy doesn't end there.  Haven also helps you smooth out your four Gold economy - especially in a single-buy kingdom.

I recently lost to an opponent that demonstrated the power of this synergy.  To be sure, there wasn't a whole lot going on in the kingdom otherwise*, so it was the ideal situation for Treasure Map.
* I tried for a thin single-Tactician deck to buy a Province and play Ambassador every 2-3 turns.  Our other opponent did not get an Ambassador and tried to spike Provinces occasionally with Warehouse + terminal Library.  It was a Shelters game, so Ambassador wasn't too dominant.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12757.msg500808#msg500808
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #440 on: January 26, 2016, 08:45:14 pm »
+2

I played Haven/Treasure Map once. The turn my Treasure Maps collided was the turn I got possessed. I resigned. Then cried.

Clearly, you should have gotten Scout. Scout is a great defense against Possession. If your opponent possessed a hand of Scouts, what can they do besides improve your next hand? ;)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #441 on: January 26, 2016, 08:54:04 pm »
0

I played Haven/Treasure Map once. The turn my Treasure Maps collided was the turn I got possessed. I resigned. Then cried.

Clearly, you should have gotten Scout. Scout is a great defense against Possession. If your opponent possessed a hand of Scouts, what can they do besides improve your next hand? ;)
Draw your alt-vp :(
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #442 on: January 26, 2016, 10:56:25 pm »
0

I played Haven/Treasure Map once. The turn my Treasure Maps collided was the turn I got possessed. I resigned. Then cried.

Clearly, you should have gotten Scout. Scout is a great defense against Possession. If your opponent possessed a hand of Scouts, what can they do besides improve your next hand? ;)
Draw your alt-vp :(
By that you obviously mean Nobles, right?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #443 on: January 26, 2016, 11:01:09 pm »
0

I played Haven/Treasure Map once. The turn my Treasure Maps collided was the turn I got possessed. I resigned. Then cried.

Clearly, you should have gotten Scout. Scout is a great defense against Possession. If your opponent possessed a hand of Scouts, what can they do besides improve your next hand? ;)
Draw your alt-vp :(
By that you obviously mean Nobles, right?
I don't get it :(
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enfynet

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #444 on: January 26, 2016, 11:18:32 pm »
0

I played Haven/Treasure Map once. The turn my Treasure Maps collided was the turn I got possessed. I resigned. Then cried.

Clearly, you should have gotten Scout. Scout is a great defense against Possession. If your opponent possessed a hand of Scouts, what can they do besides improve your next hand? ;)
Draw your alt-vp :(
By that you obviously mean Nobles, right?
I don't get it :(
Only Alt-VP I could see buying while still trying to collide maps.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #445 on: January 27, 2016, 01:25:42 pm »
+2

I played Haven/Treasure Map once. The turn my Treasure Maps collided was the turn I got possessed. I resigned. Then cried.

Clearly, you should have gotten Scout. Scout is a great defense against Possession. If your opponent possessed a hand of Scouts, what can they do besides improve your next hand? ;)
Draw your alt-vp :(
By that you obviously mean Nobles, right?
I don't get it :(
Only Alt-VP I could see buying while still trying to collide maps.

Great Hall? Maybe Island, too.

Marcory

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #446 on: January 27, 2016, 04:22:26 pm »
0

They could also draw your Distant Lands and not put them on the Reserve Mat, thus making them stay in your deck for another shuffle.

Island is a terrible buy in a Possession game, since your opponent could Island away your own Possessions.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #447 on: January 31, 2016, 01:41:24 am »
+1

Inheritance+Bridge Troll:

Have a Bridge Troll in Play.
Inherit Bridge Troll.
Get multiple Pseudo-Bridge Trolls (estates) at no cost.

In an enginey context (Draw, +actions), it explodes.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #448 on: January 31, 2016, 09:11:24 am »
+1

Inheritance+Bridge Troll:

Have a Bridge Troll in Play.
Inherit Bridge Troll.
Get multiple Pseudo-Bridge Trolls (estates) at no cost.

In an enginey context (Draw, +actions), it explodes.
The problem is that bridge troll doesn't help you hit 7.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #449 on: January 31, 2016, 12:38:52 pm »
0

Inheritance+Bridge Troll:

Have a Bridge Troll in Play.
Inherit Bridge Troll.
Get multiple Pseudo-Bridge Trolls (estates) at no cost.

In an enginey context (Draw, +actions), it explodes.
The problem is that bridge troll doesn't help you hit 7.

That isn't really a big problem though. You only need 1, you have 2 turns to hit 7, and you're likely in the process of building a big engine if you're trying this strategy, so you should be able to draw part of your deck and hit $7 somewhat quickly.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #450 on: January 31, 2016, 03:31:29 pm »
+8

I don't agree at all that butcher is better for this. Besides the fact that Transmogrify is non-terminal, you also just need one Province in hand to mill it several times.

LF's reply was to your assertion that Transmogrify-Peddler is "better than any other trash for benefit peddler.".  They're saying that Butcher is a better TfB with Peddler in general, not necessarily that it's better if your goal is purely to mill Provinces.
I now renounce my claim that transmogrify  is a better tfb with peddler. I forgot about butcher. I think they are close

I played an Adventures/Intrigue Kingdom today and found that transmogrify is a great Conspirator enabler as it is chainable when put on the Tavern mat, can get you Conspirator in hand when you have the action, or change your unsupported Conspirator for something better. (I swapped a dead Conspirator for a Storyteller, spent my hand, drew six new cards which formed a new Conspirator chain.) 
« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 03:36:06 pm by ipofanes »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #451 on: February 01, 2016, 01:29:49 pm »
+9

I've mentioned this before, but there's Magpie and Stash. When Magpie causes a shuffle, guarantee that the reveal will hit a Treasure.

Catacombs is really funny with the -1 card token. Because of the wording of the card, if you choose the first three cards, you get them all. If you choose the next three cards, you only get two of them.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #452 on: February 01, 2016, 08:24:44 pm »
0

I've mentioned this before, but there's Magpie and Stash. When Magpie causes a shuffle, guarantee that the reveal will hit a Treasure.

Catacombs is really funny with the -1 card token. Because of the wording of the card, if you choose the first three cards, you get them all. If you choose the next three cards, you only get two of them.

I'd say that magpie being a powerful engine enabler probably decreases the odds that you are looking at a kingdom where you actually want a stash.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #453 on: February 01, 2016, 11:38:10 pm »
0

king's court * 2 + transmute * 3 ft. pathfinding

W E W L A D
E
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #454 on: February 02, 2016, 12:05:22 am »
+1

Quarry + apprentice
Buy cards for cheap apprentice them at full price.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #455 on: February 02, 2016, 01:23:14 pm »
+1

I've mentioned this before, but there's Magpie and Stash. When Magpie causes a shuffle, guarantee that the reveal will hit a Treasure.

Catacombs is really funny with the -1 card token. Because of the wording of the card, if you choose the first three cards, you get them all. If you choose the next three cards, you only get two of them.

I'd say that magpie being a powerful engine enabler probably decreases the odds that you are looking at a kingdom where you actually want a stash.

Maybe? Magpie kinda presents itself as one of those half-engine cards. Like Stables. Well, okay maybe the combo should be Stables and Stash. If you're greening or have bought too many Stables, guarantee that a hand's not a dud. Of course, if Stables is that important, you'll only want to go for Stash after you've won the split.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #456 on: February 02, 2016, 02:36:11 pm »
+3

Combo: Tactician + Mission (or Outpost?) (+ saver)

I did some searching and couldn't find this combo anywhere, so I present it here for consideration.

The issue with double-tac is that you have to accumulate virtual coin. This combo allows you to basically play double-tac with regular ol' treasure. Tactician already gives you a +buy, so after very little treasure upgrading, each buy phase is: Colony/Province, mission. On your mission turn, all you're doing is drawing your other Tactician and playing it, setting up a ten-card hand every "real" turn.

It works especially well with ways to guarantee the Tactician on the Mission turn (Haven, Gear, Save.) This can turn the deck into a 100% shuffle-luck-proof auto-buy machine.

Comments? Should the wiki article list Mission/Outpost as synergistic cards with Tactician since it gives you something extremely worthwhile to do on an otherwise suboptimal nerfed "extra turn?" Or does the combo rely too heavily on a saver or shuffle luck (or perhaps a stacker like Cartographer, or a sifter like workshop when your discard pile is empty and your other Tactician is already in your hand? Other ways to ensure a Tactician on the nerfed turn?) Or are Mission/Outpost more abusable than I'm imagining? Maybe it only works on non-engine boards?

This came up in a game and I had it absolutely in the bag, except that I lost count and trashed one too many coppers, leaving me with 14 coin each turn reliably. Oh, wait. Colony + Mission is 15. Can I go back two turns and get that copper back? Lost by one Colony when I had to use a buy to set back up. D'oh! To quote David St. Hubbins, "It's a fine line between clever and stupid."
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #457 on: February 02, 2016, 03:16:00 pm »
+1

Hmm.  The trick with Double Tactician is consistently playing Tactician every turn.  Usually this means that you need two Tacticians, actions that produce coins, and strong trashing/sifting/draw to maintain consistency as you go.

Mission lets you skip the second Tactician (you can replay the single one on the Mission turn) and also lets you skip coin-producing actions (you don't need to discard them on your Tactician turn).

The negatives are that you need to consistently produce more coins (to afford Mission each turn) and that you can't take advantage of Tactician's +Buy each turn to get either more VP or more components to maintain consistency.  Consistency is thus tougher to maintain overall.

It could see it working out.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #458 on: February 03, 2016, 04:14:48 pm »
+5

With Trader in hand and Stonemason in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #459 on: February 03, 2016, 04:17:18 pm »
+2

With Trader in hand and Stonemason in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.
With one +buy card in play and Trader in hand, you can buy a Silver for $0.
With two +buy cards in play and a Trader in hand, you can buy two Silvers for $0
With three +buy cards in play...
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #460 on: February 03, 2016, 04:22:39 pm »
+4

With Trader in hand and Stonemason in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.

With Watchtower in hand and Feodum in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers. 
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #461 on: February 03, 2016, 04:29:19 pm »
0

With Trader in hand and Stonemason in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.

With Watchtower in hand and Feodum in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.

And topdeck any number of them, which is something you may sometimes want to do.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #462 on: February 03, 2016, 04:52:40 pm »
+1

Graverobber + Catacombs

With any $4 or less village support, Graverob Catacombs into province and village, then use another Graverobber to topdeck catacombs.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #463 on: February 03, 2016, 09:14:07 pm »
0

With Trader in hand and Stonemason in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.

With Watchtower in hand and Feodum in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.

And topdeck any number of them, which is something you may sometimes want to do.

With Trader in hand and Feodum also in your hand, you can have paid $4 for 7 silvers.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #464 on: February 04, 2016, 11:52:59 am »
+2

With Trader in hand and Stonemason in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.

With Watchtower in hand and Feodum in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.

And topdeck any number of them, which is something you may sometimes want to do.

With Trader in hand and Feodum also in your hand, you can have paid $4 for 7 silvers.

With Trader and Peddler in hand, you can have paid $0 for 8 Silvers  :P
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #465 on: February 04, 2016, 11:56:19 am »
0

With Trader in hand and Stonemason in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.

With Watchtower in hand and Feodum in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.

And topdeck any number of them, which is something you may sometimes want to do.

With Trader in hand and Feodum also in your hand, you can have paid $4 for 7 silvers.

With Trader and Peddler in hand, you can have paid $0 for 8 Silvers  :P

I think that's not true, right?

Nevermind, reading comprehension. 
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #466 on: February 04, 2016, 11:57:27 am »
+1

Though with Trader and anything in hand, you can have paid $0 for some number of Silvers. 
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #467 on: February 04, 2016, 11:59:37 am »
0

With Trader in hand and Stonemason in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.

With Watchtower in hand and Feodum in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.

And topdeck any number of them, which is something you may sometimes want to do.

With Trader in hand and Feodum also in your hand, you can have paid $4 for 7 silvers.

With Trader and Peddler in hand, you can have paid $0 for 8 Silvers  :P

I think that's not true, right?

Nevermind, reading comprehension.

It's arguably not true by Dominion rules, in which paying for something also means spending a Buy.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #468 on: February 07, 2016, 12:21:14 am »
+4

Transmogrify + Rats

Trash your starting cards (and curses/ruins) with Rats, and turn Rats into 5-cost cards with Transmogrify.

I just played a game with this recently.  It's a lot like Upgrade + Rats, but without the pile-emptying degenerate strategies.  Transmogrify is a little slower to play, but it puts the 5-cost card right into your 6-card hand.  It's especially strong with situational 5-cost cards.  This strategy can be a little dangerous with other sources of card draw; you need the Rats to be in your starting hand to trash them.  I believe this is one of the most powerful Rat synergies.
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xyz123

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #469 on: February 07, 2016, 04:20:28 am »
0

Sage + anything that requires you put cards from your hand on top of your deck, e.g. Courtyard, Secret Chamber's reaction, opponent's Ghost Ship attack, etc.

Put cards costing <3 on top of your deck and Sage will sail past them.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #470 on: February 07, 2016, 12:26:00 pm »
+4

Transmogrify + Rats

Trash your starting cards (and curses/ruins) with Rats, and turn Rats into 5-cost cards with Transmogrify.

I just played a game with this recently.  It's a lot like Upgrade + Rats, but without the pile-emptying degenerate strategies.  Transmogrify is a little slower to play, but it puts the 5-cost card right into your 6-card hand.  It's especially strong with situational 5-cost cards.  This strategy can be a little dangerous with other sources of card draw; you need the Rats to be in your starting hand to trash them.  I believe this is one of the most powerful Rat synergies.

Another benefit is that unlike Upgrade, you can Transmogrify into $4 cost cards (including more Transmogrify!)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #471 on: February 07, 2016, 11:58:04 pm »
+1

Goons + doctor
Play a bunch of goons buy a bunch of copper doctor trash it. This requires you too draw your deck.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #472 on: February 08, 2016, 12:07:06 am »
0

Transmogrify + Graverobber

Use Transmogrify, but get your stuff back

I think T-mog is hurt the most from the whole "trash this, get something else" thing because the intent is to swap a potentially useful card in your hand for a potentially more useful card, as opposed to junk for something better, or a no-longer-needed action/treasure into a victory card.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #473 on: February 08, 2016, 10:09:36 am »
0

Goons + doctor
Play a bunch of goons buy a bunch of copper doctor trash it. This requires you too draw your deck.

To clarify you mean Doctor overpay? So it requires you have $3 plus the number of Copper you buy in hand, but your deck state is left as is? That's pretty cool and doable I think.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #474 on: February 08, 2016, 10:22:34 am »
0

Goons + doctor
Play a bunch of goons buy a bunch of copper doctor trash it. This requires you too draw your deck.

To clarify you mean Doctor overpay? So it requires you have $3 plus the number of Copper you buy in hand, but your deck state is left as is? That's pretty cool and doable I think.

Well, you have that extra Doctor - but that's better than loads of Coppers.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #475 on: February 08, 2016, 10:47:30 am »
0

Goons + doctor
Play a bunch of goons buy a bunch of copper doctor trash it. This requires you too draw your deck.

To clarify you mean Doctor overpay? So it requires you have $3 plus the number of Copper you buy in hand, but your deck state is left as is? That's pretty cool and doable I think.

Well, you have that extra Doctor - but that's better than loads of Coppers.
Don't you gain the doctor before you trash?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #476 on: February 08, 2016, 10:48:39 am »
+1

No because it's an on buy type of effect
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #477 on: February 08, 2016, 10:49:55 am »
0

No because it's an on buy type of effect
I am not good at rules :)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #478 on: February 10, 2016, 02:29:43 am »
+1

Transmogrify+Cultist

If you trash a cultist and gain a cultist, Transmogrify becomes

"+action, draw three cards at the beginning of your next turn",
with additional alternatives like replacing the cultist or replacing silver by a cultist.

Similar to nonterminal Haunted Woods, sort of.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #479 on: February 10, 2016, 02:57:05 am »
0

I am not getting where the "+action" comes from.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #480 on: February 10, 2016, 04:15:32 am »
+1

I am not getting where the "+action" comes from.
Transmogrify is nonterminal.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #481 on: February 10, 2016, 04:31:21 am »
0

I am not getting where the "+action" comes from.
Transmogrify is nonterminal.
Playing it is nonterminal, invoking it (at start of next turn at the earliest) isn't. Well, at least it isn't +action.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #482 on: February 10, 2016, 08:01:19 am »
+7

This is the natural confusion we have with more Events and Reserves now -- we've always compared the opportunity cost of all effects to the "+1 Card / +1 Action" of playing an Action card. Duration effects in Seaside could mostly be described in these contexts: "Merchant Ship is a terminal Silver now and two Peddlers on your next turn!" or "Caravan is a cantrip now and a Lab on your next turn!" We could even extend this to Treasures for most practical purposes: "Horn is a non-terminal gainer that you can draw dead, but can't use mid-turn (without a crazy combo)"

Reserves and Events are throwing people off because their cost is not the same. Reserve cards' on-play cost is still a card and an action, but their on-call effect doesn't have that cost. In a lot of these cases, you are still paying that cost, but you're paying it up-front without an immediate benefit, which often equates to a cost slightly more than +1 Card / +1 Action overall that you hope to make up in flexibility.

Transmogrify's on-call effect is really great, but it's very slow and that's not to be ignored. It seems Transmogrify has a cool synergy with the usual suspects that have TfB synergies.

Adventures introduced less symmetrical duration cards and duration-style cards (Reserves) that really force you to think differently than this conventional way we've developed if you want to have an accurate picture of what's going on. Empires will do similar, yet probably more overall game-warping things rather than just turn-warping things -- you'll have many more games that don't just come down to green cards since there are lots more ways to score points and you'll have to actually think about the number of points you have when you want to compare them, as opposed to "my plan is to get five Provinces and I should win the game".

I've always challenged conventional thinking when I think I can do better. It's how you get better at Dominion/Life.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #483 on: February 10, 2016, 05:00:25 pm »
0

Lookout and Rogue. Not a super-combo by any means, but you might be happier playing Lookout further into the mid/end-game knowing that even if you have to trash something useful, it's not gone forever (and if it's a card like Duchy then that's equivalent to discarding it off your deck which you could be quite happy about).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #484 on: February 10, 2016, 05:07:56 pm »
0

Lookout and Rogue. Not a super-combo by any means, but you might be happier playing Lookout further into the mid/end-game knowing that even if you have to trash something useful, it's not gone forever (and if it's a card like Duchy then that's equivalent to discarding it off your deck which you could be quite happy about).

Also Forager - Rogue

Not super powerful.  But play multiple Foragers per turn, trashing Silvers & Golds, then in the same turn play a Rogue to gain them back.  Example game:
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160210/log.0.1455087690982.txt
http://gokosalvager.com/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160210/log.0.1455087690982.txt
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #485 on: February 10, 2016, 05:19:54 pm »
0

I think you can generalize that "combo" as "trasher / from-trash gainer".
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 05:22:17 pm by Awaclus »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #486 on: February 10, 2016, 05:29:13 pm »
0

I think you can generalize that "combo" as "trasher / from-trash gainer".

Specifically, trash-for-benefit / from-trash gainer. I wouldn't call e.g. Chapel/Graverobber a combo.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #487 on: February 10, 2016, 06:17:28 pm »
0

I think you can generalize that "combo" as "trasher / from-trash gainer".

Specifically, trash-for-benefit / from-trash gainer. I wouldn't call e.g. Chapel/Graverobber a combo.
If you miss click and trash a duchy you can gain it back. See combo ;)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #488 on: February 10, 2016, 10:20:59 pm »
0

I think you can generalize that "combo" as "trasher / from-trash gainer".

Specifically, trash-for-benefit / from-trash gainer. I wouldn't call e.g. Chapel/Graverobber a combo.
Either trash-for-benefit or trash-with-risk (as maybe the case with something like Upgrade or Junk Dealer?). I was focusing on Lookout and Rogue mostly because they're both weaker cards that definitely benefit quite a bit from the synergy with each other.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #489 on: February 11, 2016, 05:21:23 am »
+1

In my opinion, Lookout and Rogue have a bad relationship, even an anti-synergy. If I ever buy Rogue, I want to attack my opponent, only to realize that I already trashed a Silver/redundant terminal I no longer want with Lookout.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #490 on: February 12, 2016, 08:11:14 am »
0

Rogue/Feodum

Trash Feudoms with some other trasher to gain a bunch of Silvers (Trader and Stonemason are good), regain them from the trash.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #491 on: February 15, 2016, 05:44:13 am »
0

It might not be the most common thing ever, nor the most powerful, but in this game, turn 11 I use cellar on an empty discard to discard a bunch of coppers that risk stopping my engine, draw useful cards, and then after triggering the reshuffle pick up all the coppers with wishing wells. Yay!
« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 05:45:38 am by Accatitippi »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #492 on: February 15, 2016, 09:01:08 am »
+7

Urchin/Mercenary + Save

Open Urchin/Urchin.  If you only see one Urchin on turn 3, save it for a very good chance of having a Mercenary in your second reshuffle.  With Save, it shouldn't be necessary to get a third Urchin.  Save also helps pair your second Urchin with Mercenary, and your junk with Mercenary.  Unfortunately, Save doesn't play nicely with your opponents' discard attacks.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #493 on: February 18, 2016, 02:18:46 pm »
0

Goons-Mint
It would take a LOT of support, but... play Goons, buy a bunch of Coppers, next turn buy a Mint to trash all the Coppers.  Obviously not as powerful as Goons-Watchtower, but could theoretically work out.  Or not.  I don't have any game logs.

I kind of tried it here (Apprentice to get rid of the Mints):
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160216/log.0.1455597061342.txt
but lost horribly (not because of this bad strategy, but because I was already behind pretty early).
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 02:21:39 pm by Dingan »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #494 on: February 27, 2016, 08:26:20 am »
0

A couple I have had recently come up in games.

Mint/Spice Merchant

- Spice Merchant was the only +buy on the board. Mint can be used to gain Spice Merchant fodder so more than one card can be bought per turn.

University/Graverobber

- University can gain 5 cost actions that Graverobber can turn into Provinces.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #495 on: March 26, 2016, 10:31:33 pm »
+1

Magpie/Stables. I guess the synergy is pretty obvious, but it's super relieving when you draw Stables with no treasure and your Magpie pulls up a Copper or something. I wouldn't say this is a power combo, but it's worth noting when the two are together.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #496 on: March 27, 2016, 10:39:10 pm »
+3

Peasant/Tactician.

Soldier helps you buy your first Tactician. One Tactician makes it trivial to buy a second.

Double-Tac makes upgrading travellers quick and easy.

Use Teacher to put +1 Card on Tactician. Then play Disciple on a Tactician. Result: +10 Cards, +2 Buys, +2 Actions next turn. And gain another Tactician.

Now you're running a scary doubled-up double-Tac. Soldiers are an action that provides coin.


This feels quite flexible. Almost any kingdom will contain something that sweetens the deal. If not, use Teacher until it does. (-8
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #497 on: March 27, 2016, 10:46:58 pm »
+2

Soldier payload with Urchin (or Minion, or any other cantrip attack) can be brutal. Thin down with Mercenary, play a million Urchins, then Soldier up with tons of coin. This is even stronger with Disciple being able to gain more Urchins, and Teacher with a +buy token being granted to the Urchins for even more buying power, assuming there is no +buy. If not, then obviously you can just put a coin on Urchins, or even card, whatever you'd need.

Takes a bit of time to set up, but it's worth pointing out.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #498 on: March 29, 2016, 09:07:29 am »
+3

Storyteller + Trader

Normally, using Trader on an Estate decreases your cycling speed.  Not so with Storyteller!  I played a game recently where an opponent had at least 10 Silvers (mostly due to Trader) and could consistently draw his deck with 4-5 Storytellers - so long as he started with one in hand.

Storyteller + Training

6-cost Pathfinding?  Yes, please!  You don't even need to put the Training on Storyteller to turn the coins into card draw; just play the Training target before your last Storyteller.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2016, 04:15:54 am »
+14

Walled Village-Island:
I've recently played a board with awful terminals (I believe they were Island, Coppersmith, and maybe Explorer) where I went for Hoard-BM. I bought a good amount of early islands to get Golds, and a single Walled Village protected me from Island collision the whole game, since it can't ever be discarded, because islands disappear from play.
Also works with Feast, Embargo, and a few others!
Very very marginal, but sweet. :)
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 12:11:56 pm by Accatitippi »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #500 on: April 21, 2016, 03:43:22 pm »
+4

Prince - Conspirator

Today I played a game with only terminals, starring Bridge and Prince. We both went for Princed Bridges (I got three, my opponent went for one). I then picked up Conspirators with spare buys, to ramp up in buying power.

The cool thing is that after you Prince two cards your Conspirators will always be active. ;D

Again, pretty marginal, but neat.  :)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 03:44:53 pm by Accatitippi »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #501 on: April 21, 2016, 05:25:45 pm »
+2

Inn - Counting House

When your discard pile is large and has a bunch of Coppers in it, use Inn to topdeck Counting Houses (but only if you're not going to shuffle).  Not incredibly useful, but pretty neat and can guarantee a Province or whatever.

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160421/log.0.1461199694839.txt
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #502 on: April 21, 2016, 05:27:08 pm »
+2

Wandering Ministrel + counting house was something I did today.

Discard allt he coppers. Let counting house take care of them.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #503 on: April 22, 2016, 10:50:43 am »
+2

Gear/Plan

Get rid of those pesky Estates while you pick up your three Gears.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #504 on: April 22, 2016, 10:51:53 am »
0

Gear/Plan

Get rid of those pesky Estates while you pick up your three Gears.

Is it actually worth taking a turn off from buying your Gears to get rid of your Estates?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #505 on: April 22, 2016, 10:55:07 am »
0

Gear/Plan

Get rid of those pesky Estates while you pick up your three Gears.

Is it actually worth taking a turn off from buying your Gears to get rid of your Estates?

Just played against a bot where doing that I got all the Colonies by turn 20.  That means it took at least 16 turns to get 4 Colonies, but there were a few turns between 4 and 8 where I got Platinum or another Gear (bot bought a Giant), so it was more like 12-14 turns.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #506 on: April 22, 2016, 11:04:14 am »
+1

Gear/Plan

Get rid of those pesky Estates while you pick up your three Gears.

Is it actually worth taking a turn off from buying your Gears to get rid of your Estates?

Just played against a bot where doing that I got all the Colonies by turn 20.  That means it took at least 16 turns to get 4 Colonies, but there were a few turns between 4 and 8 where I got Platinum or another Gear (bot bought a Giant), so it was more like 12-14 turns.

I don't know about all that, but I just ran a simulation of standard Third Gear against Third Gear with Plan on Gear, and Gear/Plan won 57.5%. Good enough for me.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #507 on: April 22, 2016, 11:19:09 am »
+5

Plan is actually super fucking good any time you plan on buying 3 of anything cheap. I think it's the most underrated event right now.

Like opening Plan / Fishing Village I'm convinced is one of the top openings I've ever done, you get a 10 card deck where you either spike 5 or guarantee two 5s in a row shuffle 3 by buying two more Fishing Villages and clearing your Estates. I used this open to pivot toward 5 cost draw cards / attacks (Margrave) and then cleaned house. I love when a good Plan comes together.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #508 on: April 22, 2016, 11:26:08 am »
+1

Plan is actually super fucking good any time you plan on buying 3 of anything cheap. I think it's the most underrated event right now.

Like opening Plan / Fishing Village I'm convinced is one of the top openings I've ever done, you get a 10 card deck where you either spike 5 or guarantee two 5s in a row shuffle 3 by buying two more Fishing Villages and clearing your Estates. I used this open to pivot toward 5 cost draw cards / attacks (Margrave) and then cleaned house. I love when a good Plan comes together.

You don't even need 3 I don't think. At least in the case of Gear, I ran sims for buying [1, 2, 3] Gear against buying that same number of Gear having first bought Plan. Even when you only bought 2 Gear, Planning on Gear outperformed not doing so. In the case of just one Gear, opening Gear/Silver vs. Plan/Gear ended up being slightly favored towards not Planning. Its hard to generalize this towards other cards, but I'm not convinced that 3 is the magic number.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #509 on: April 25, 2016, 12:48:15 pm »
+3

Baker / Trading Post

Baker lets you open with 5 coin to buy trading post. Trading post quickly turns a deck into 7 copper and 3 estates into a deck of 5 silver, to which you can add 3-4 bakers and then start getting a province per turn very consistently. In the log below, with a little extra help from scheme & ironmonger, I get 6 provinces in 14 turns despite a golden sombrero opening.

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160425/log.0.1461600874046.txt
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #510 on: April 25, 2016, 01:14:47 pm »
+3

Haven/Saboteur

For those rare boards where you can play Saboteur enough to be destructive, Haven offers an interesting defence. Use it to hide away any Provinces or Duchies you pick up so your opponent's Saboteurs can never find them.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #511 on: May 02, 2016, 06:40:45 pm »
+2

Ill-Gotten Gains/Borrow. That extra $1 is often very much worth it in these games, as hitting a sad $4 is quite common.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #512 on: May 02, 2016, 06:46:32 pm »
+7

Bandit Camp / Alms

Produce all your $ with spoils, then buy an alms anyway with a spare buy.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #513 on: May 02, 2016, 07:21:08 pm »
+1

Bandit Camp / Alms

Produce all your $ with spoils, then buy an alms anyway with a spare buy.

Similar interaction with Coin token cards.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #514 on: May 02, 2016, 10:38:17 pm »
+4

Coin of the Realm/Tribute or Golem

This feels pretty obvious, but cards where it's uncertain whether you end up with Actions after having played them love Coin of the Realm. Tribute is suddenly a lot better when playing it is guaranteed to not end your turn prematurely.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #515 on: May 04, 2016, 11:12:17 pm »
+2

Wharf/Outpost is bonkers if you have enough +Action, maybe some trashing.  Especially if you win the Wharf split.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #516 on: May 05, 2016, 12:08:08 am »
+1

Wharf/Outpost is bonkers if you have enough +Action, maybe some trashing.  Especially if you win the Wharf split.

It's not so much Wharf/Outpost as it is [any reliable engine]/Outpost.  It's generally a weak or mediocre card, but with the right deck a single Outpost can literally double your deck output.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #517 on: May 05, 2016, 12:43:53 am »
0

Wharf/Outpost is bonkers if you have enough +Action, maybe some trashing.  Especially if you win the Wharf split.

It's not so much Wharf/Outpost as it is [any reliable engine]/Outpost.  It's generally a weak or mediocre card, but with the right deck a single Outpost can literally double your deck output.

I think Wharf works especially well with it because you can play your Wharves before you play Outpost, rather than hoping to draw your starting pieces in your 3 card hand.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #518 on: May 05, 2016, 12:51:43 am »
0

I had fun with Haunted Woods/Outpost today - you get a 6 card Outpost turn right away (though you do lose the Attack effect)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #519 on: May 05, 2016, 01:04:37 am »
+1

Wharf/Outpost is bonkers if you have enough +Action, maybe some trashing.  Especially if you win the Wharf split.

It's not so much Wharf/Outpost as it is [any reliable engine]/Outpost.  It's generally a weak or mediocre card, but with the right deck a single Outpost can literally double your deck output.

I think Wharf works especially well with it because you can play your Wharves before you play Outpost, rather than hoping to draw your starting pieces in your 3 card hand.

That's why I specified reliable.  Wharf alone doesn't work well because (as you pointed out) you need a lot of village support.  You could also do something with Scheme (especially with stuff like KC or SP).  But again, these are just examples of the general "reliable engine".
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #520 on: May 05, 2016, 11:39:51 am »
0

Wharf/Outpost is bonkers if you have enough +Action, maybe some trashing.  Especially if you win the Wharf split.

It's not so much Wharf/Outpost as it is [any reliable engine]/Outpost.  It's generally a weak or mediocre card, but with the right deck a single Outpost can literally double your deck output.

I think Wharf works especially well with it because you can play your Wharves before you play Outpost, rather than hoping to draw your starting pieces in your 3 card hand.

That's why I specified reliable.  Wharf alone doesn't work well because (as you pointed out) you need a lot of village support.  You could also do something with Scheme (especially with stuff like KC or SP).  But again, these are just examples of the general "reliable engine".

And there are many other ways to guarantee a starting hand that allows you to kick off - Alchemist, Caravan, Hireling, Haven, Save, Dungeon, Gear, Prince and Expedition come to mind, and there are more obscure, difficult ways to do it such as involving Scavenger.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #521 on: May 05, 2016, 11:58:26 am »
+1

Wharf/Outpost is bonkers if you have enough +Action, maybe some trashing.  Especially if you win the Wharf split.

It's not so much Wharf/Outpost as it is [any reliable engine]/Outpost.  It's generally a weak or mediocre card, but with the right deck a single Outpost can literally double your deck output.

I think Wharf works especially well with it because you can play your Wharves before you play Outpost, rather than hoping to draw your starting pieces in your 3 card hand.

That's why I specified reliable.  Wharf alone doesn't work well because (as you pointed out) you need a lot of village support.  You could also do something with Scheme (especially with stuff like KC or SP).  But again, these are just examples of the general "reliable engine".

And there are many other ways to guarantee a starting hand that allows you to kick off - Alchemist, Caravan, Hireling, Haven, Save, Dungeon, Gear, Prince and Expedition come to mind, and there are more obscure, difficult ways to do it such as involving Scavenger.

You don't even need to guarantee it, Outpost is good as long as it's reasonably likely. If you can expect to get one good turn out of Outpost, it's already better than greening earlier in a lot of cases.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #522 on: May 06, 2016, 02:12:39 pm »
+1

Wharf/Outpost is bonkers if you have enough +Action, maybe some trashing.  Especially if you win the Wharf split.

It's not so much Wharf/Outpost as it is [any reliable engine]/Outpost.  It's generally a weak or mediocre card, but with the right deck a single Outpost can literally double your deck output.

I think Wharf works especially well with it because you can play your Wharves before you play Outpost, rather than hoping to draw your starting pieces in your 3 card hand.

That's why I specified reliable.  Wharf alone doesn't work well because (as you pointed out) you need a lot of village support.  You could also do something with Scheme (especially with stuff like KC or SP).  But again, these are just examples of the general "reliable engine".

And there are many other ways to guarantee a starting hand that allows you to kick off - Alchemist, Caravan, Hireling, Haven, Save, Dungeon, Gear, Prince and Expedition come to mind, and there are more obscure, difficult ways to do it such as involving Scavenger.

I don't always seed my outpost turns, but when I do, I discard two scrying pools with horse traders, then play navigator to leave them on my deck.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #523 on: May 07, 2016, 01:13:24 pm »
+2

Herald + Jack of All Trades

I often overlook Herald's top-decking ability and focus on its play.  This isn't particularly specific to Jack, but it can be helpful late game if you hit that $5,6,7 hand and you have Golds in the discard. In a Jack BM strategy you don't have a lot of buying targets with those hands.  You'd normally do Gold or Duchy, but overpaying Herald can let you guarantee a Province next turn.  One that you buy in the mid-game may turn out to be useful as well, though its probably as likely to be drawn Dead with Jack than to play a Jack when you draw it. 
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #524 on: May 07, 2016, 01:51:15 pm »
+1

Herald + Jack of All Trades

I often overlook Herald's top-decking ability and focus on its play.  This isn't particularly specific to Jack, but it can be helpful late game if you hit that $5,6,7 hand and you have Golds in the discard. In a Jack BM strategy you don't have a lot of buying targets with those hands.  You'd normally do Gold or Duchy, but overpaying Herald can let you guarantee a Province next turn.  One that you buy in the mid-game may turn out to be useful as well, though its probably as likely to be drawn Dead with Jack than to play a Jack when you draw it.

This is overall not worth it, if not detrimental. Adding tons of Silver to your deck is just going to hurt Herald. The only way this is conceivable is if you're using Jack's Silver gaining ability to get some sort of payload, trashing the Silver.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #525 on: May 07, 2016, 02:07:15 pm »
+8

Herald + Jack of All Trades

I often overlook Herald's top-decking ability and focus on its play.  This isn't particularly specific to Jack, but it can be helpful late game if you hit that $5,6,7 hand and you have Golds in the discard. In a Jack BM strategy you don't have a lot of buying targets with those hands.  You'd normally do Gold or Duchy, but overpaying Herald can let you guarantee a Province next turn.  One that you buy in the mid-game may turn out to be useful as well, though its probably as likely to be drawn Dead with Jack than to play a Jack when you draw it.

This is overall not worth it, if not detrimental. Adding tons of Silver to your deck is just going to hurt Herald. The only way this is conceivable is if you're using Jack's Silver gaining ability to get some sort of payload, trashing the Silver.

I don't mean adding Heralds in heavily mid-game.  I mean using the overpay tactically to win the Province split late on unlucky draws.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #526 on: May 07, 2016, 04:18:52 pm »
0

Possession is cwazy with Mission.  In a deck-draw engine, Mission essentially doubles the number of Possession turns you take.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #527 on: May 07, 2016, 05:39:03 pm »
+1

Transmogrify can be nice with Distant Lands, if you have $4 cards you don't mind losing (Sea Hag, Moneylender, Rats, etc.)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #528 on: May 07, 2016, 05:50:42 pm »
0

Vault-Training is pretty cool.

1. open Silver/Silver
2. buy Vaults and more Silvers
3. play your first Vault, train Vaults.
4. play Vaults, find Silvers, buy Provinces.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #529 on: May 07, 2016, 07:11:23 pm »
+2

Raze-Fortress is fantastic. You trash Fortress, pick whatever card you want, and then you still get a village to play!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #530 on: May 08, 2016, 08:31:53 am »
0

Raze-Fortress is fantastic. You trash Fortress, pick whatever card you want, and then you still get a village to play!
Found that one out in a game with Fragsnap's Patrol (From Greed). If you trash a card costing 3 or more, you can dig for any card. That was interesting.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #531 on: May 08, 2016, 12:12:55 pm »
+10

Bank + Storyteller

Bank counts all your treasures in play, and all your Storyteller treasures are still on the table, so they might as well be worth money. Plus you draw a lot more!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #532 on: May 08, 2016, 12:15:22 pm »
+7

Raze-Fortress is fantastic. You trash Fortress, pick whatever card you want, and then you still get a village to play!

Fortress has a positive interaction with trash-for-benefit. Who would have thought!
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Seprix

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #533 on: May 08, 2016, 10:13:55 pm »
+2

Raze-Fortress is fantastic. You trash Fortress, pick whatever card you want, and then you still get a village to play!

Fortress has a positive interaction with trash-for-benefit. Who would have thought!

A neat and potentially useful card interaction that was not previously mentioned. Who would have thought!
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #534 on: May 09, 2016, 01:40:45 am »
+1

Raze-Fortress is fantastic. You trash Fortress, pick whatever card you want, and then you still get a village to play!

Fortress has a positive interaction with trash-for-benefit. Who would have thought!

A neat and potentially useful card interaction that was not previously mentioned. Who would have thought!

Upvoted, but I guess Awaclus's point is that you should generally assume Fortress has a neat and potentially useful card interaction with every trash for benefit card unless proven otherwise.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #535 on: May 09, 2016, 04:38:11 am »
0

Upvoted, but I guess Awaclus's point is that you should generally assume Fortress has a neat and potentially useful card interaction with every trash for benefit card unless proven otherwise.

Yeah. That's like saying Tunnel has a potentially useful card interaction with Dungeon. It's all but literally written on the card text of Fortress itself.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #536 on: May 09, 2016, 05:25:37 am »
+4

So, I thought of a combo. It requires 2 cards and an Event.

Bridge, Hermit, Alms.

Essentially you gain Madmen with Hermit and buy Bridges with Alms.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #537 on: May 10, 2016, 06:45:45 am »
0

Tunnel and Scouting Party is about as stupidly easy and good as the cards would imply. On 3/4 you can open Tunnel / double Scouting Party and end up with two golds before turn 3 more often than not. It's so stupid and kinda good. If you track your deck you probably only need 2 tunnel to generate like 8 Gold in just a few turns.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #538 on: May 10, 2016, 11:31:14 am »
+1

So, I thought of a combo. It requires 2 cards and an Event.

Bridge, Hermit, Alms.

Essentially you gain Madmen with Hermit and buy Bridges with Alms.

I think the combo here is just Hermit + Alms. Bridge may make it stronger, but it's not in any way essential for this.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #539 on: May 10, 2016, 11:40:21 am »
0

So, I thought of a combo. It requires 2 cards and an Event.

Bridge, Hermit, Alms.

Essentially you gain Madmen with Hermit and buy Bridges with Alms.

I think the combo here is just Hermit + Alms. Bridge may make it stronger, but it's not in any way essential for this.

You need a $4 or lower megaturn payload though. Bridge and Market Square are the only ones that immediately come to my mind.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #540 on: May 10, 2016, 01:34:28 pm »
+1

So, I thought of a combo. It requires 2 cards and an Event.

Bridge, Hermit, Alms.

Essentially you gain Madmen with Hermit and buy Bridges with Alms.

I think the combo here is just Hermit + Alms. Bridge may make it stronger, but it's not in any way essential for this.

You need a $4 or lower megaturn payload though. Bridge and Market Square are the only ones that immediately come to my mind.

Coppersmith also (with +Buy, most obvious sources are probably Squire, Candlestick Maker, Seaway).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #541 on: May 11, 2016, 12:34:43 pm »
0

Ferry has an interesting 'offensive' interaction with Swindler/Saboteur. (There is also the interaction with Knight/Warrior/Giant type trashing to bring cards in or out of the range, but I'm specifically talking about the trash-and-replace cards.)  You can junk along different lines with Swindler (maybe going $2 -> Curse instead of $2->Estate).  Though more for certain price points.. sometimes there isn't good junk at $3, but maybe Poor House is in the kingdom and would be bad for your opponent's deck.  Or $4 ->Estate, or $6 -> Potion instead of Gold or something. 

With Saboteur, it effectively 'downgrades worse' to $4 less instead of $2 less.

Not sure if it's ever really worth it. 
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #542 on: May 11, 2016, 01:53:18 pm »
+2

Ferry has an interesting 'offensive' interaction with Swindler/Saboteur. (There is also the interaction with Knight/Warrior/Giant type trashing to bring cards in or out of the range, but I'm specifically talking about the trash-and-replace cards.)  You can junk along different lines with Swindler (maybe going $2 -> Curse instead of $2->Estate).  Though more for certain price points.. sometimes there isn't good junk at $3, but maybe Poor House is in the kingdom and would be bad for your opponent's deck.  Or $4 ->Estate, or $6 -> Potion instead of Gold or something. 

With Saboteur, it effectively 'downgrades worse' to $4 less instead of $2 less.

Not sure if it's ever really worth it.
also with governor sorta: ferry on governor, whoops now whenever you do the remodel one adamh can turn his estate into governors
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Witherweaver

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #543 on: May 11, 2016, 02:10:59 pm »
0

Ferry has an interesting 'offensive' interaction with Swindler/Saboteur. (There is also the interaction with Knight/Warrior/Giant type trashing to bring cards in or out of the range, but I'm specifically talking about the trash-and-replace cards.)  You can junk along different lines with Swindler (maybe going $2 -> Curse instead of $2->Estate).  Though more for certain price points.. sometimes there isn't good junk at $3, but maybe Poor House is in the kingdom and would be bad for your opponent's deck.  Or $4 ->Estate, or $6 -> Potion instead of Gold or something. 

With Saboteur, it effectively 'downgrades worse' to $4 less instead of $2 less.

Not sure if it's ever really worth it.
also with governor sorta: ferry on governor, whoops now whenever you do the remodel one adamh can turn his estate into governors

Yeah, that's a slightly different flavor of interaction.  Note that Ferry only affects the cost during your turns, so you can't use if this way 'defensively' against opponent's Actions that care about cost.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #544 on: May 13, 2016, 06:45:54 pm »
+2

Royal carriage/Black Market

Throne room lets you play the bomb you picked up out of the black market twice. King's court lets you play it three times. But royal carriage can let you play the single knight you got from the black market deck up to 10 times per turn.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #545 on: May 13, 2016, 07:00:27 pm »
+2

Royal carriage/Black Market

Throne room lets you play the bomb you picked up out of the black market twice.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #546 on: May 13, 2016, 11:07:12 pm »
+2

Royal carriage/Black Market

Throne room lets you play the bomb you picked up out of the black market twice. King's court lets you play it three times. But royal carriage can let you play the single knight you got from the black market deck up to 10 times per turn.

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160513/log.0.1463179304694.txt

11 times
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #547 on: May 14, 2016, 02:26:39 am »
0

Ferry has an interesting 'offensive' interaction with Swindler/Saboteur. (There is also the interaction with Knight/Warrior/Giant type trashing to bring cards in or out of the range, but I'm specifically talking about the trash-and-replace cards.)  You can junk along different lines with Swindler (maybe going $2 -> Curse instead of $2->Estate).  Though more for certain price points.. sometimes there isn't good junk at $3, but maybe Poor House is in the kingdom and would be bad for your opponent's deck.  Or $4 ->Estate, or $6 -> Potion instead of Gold or something. 

With Saboteur, it effectively 'downgrades worse' to $4 less instead of $2 less.

Not sure if it's ever really worth it.

Warrior can trash opponents' 5s and 6s if you ferried them first. Given the potential depth of Warrior's attack, it's pretty neat.
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wachsmuth

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #548 on: May 17, 2016, 07:08:36 pm »
+12

Cultist + Lost Arts

It's well-established that Lost Arts is really good with terminal draw. However, it also turns Cultist into a village - if for example you start your turn by chaining 3 Cultists, you end up with 3 Actions, to play all your other terminal actions!
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 07:09:57 pm by wachsmuth »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #549 on: May 19, 2016, 06:02:19 am »
+5

Spy+Peasant.

Gain many spies.
Cycle your cards with spies a bit faster (little bonus).
Discard opponent travellers (great bonus).
If necessary, put teachers +card on spy.
Play a soldier after many spies that gives you tons of coins.

Guess that many players won't anticipate the latter ...
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #550 on: May 19, 2016, 06:10:34 am »
+2

Spy+Peasant.

Gain many spies.
Cycle your cards with spies a bit faster (little bonus).
Discard opponent travellers (great bonus).
If necessary, put teachers +card on spy.
Play a soldier after many spies that gives you tons of coins.

Guess that many players won't anticipate the latter ...

I've done this with Scrying Pool. The advantage is that Scrying Pool gives you lots of draw, and if you put the +Action token on Pool you can support lots of Soldiers.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #551 on: May 21, 2016, 03:46:54 am »
+7

Rebuild + Duplicate

In a Rebuild duel, one of the keys is getting more Duchies than your opponent.  Rebuilding an Estate into a Duchy, then calling Duplicates to gain additional Duchies, can be a real game changer.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2016, 03:47:56 am by Zaphod »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #552 on: May 25, 2016, 03:11:35 pm »
+7

This is along the lines of "Fortress + literally any TfB," but man, Fortress + Transmogrify is sweet. Gaining key 5s in hand on the exact turns when you already have a village in hand is nice. Used this to pile out Distant Lands in a few turns, banking them all without any ever hitting the discard pile.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #553 on: May 25, 2016, 03:45:32 pm »
+3

Bonfire / Alms can be cool cus you can play Coppers, trash them, then get something with Alms because your Coppers are not in play anymore.  Needs a bit of support though, like at least 1 virtual coin and +buy.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #554 on: May 27, 2016, 11:53:16 am »
+2

Duplicate + Duke

Pretty much the same idea as rebuild + duplicate.  Here duplicates can also get you more dukes, and let you wait a bit on things to avoid clogging your deck with green as much.  If you're not being mirrored, you can get most of the duchies, building up duplicates on your tavern mat, and when the game is about to end, hit 5, gaining a bunch of dukes all at once.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #555 on: May 27, 2016, 06:33:30 pm »
+2

I have no idea if this has been discussed already. Probably.

Mercenary + Fortress. I haven't played much Mercenary in general, so it seems to me that feeding it cards to activate it would be a problem; you only get to play it a few times before you don't have junk you want to trash. And it does nothing at all if you don't trash 2 cards. But with Fortress, suddenly you don't need to worry about that! Also, as Mercenary is terminal draw, you really want to play a Village first. Well Fortress has you covered there too. Of course, you need 3 Fortresses and a Mercenary in hand in order to pull this off, but as part of an engine that gets those things into hand, it's quite fun.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #556 on: May 27, 2016, 09:55:53 pm »
0

I have no idea if this has been discussed already. Probably.

Mercenary + Fortress. I haven't played much Mercenary in general, so it seems to me that feeding it cards to activate it would be a problem; you only get to play it a few times before you don't have junk you want to trash. And it does nothing at all if you don't trash 2 cards. But with Fortress, suddenly you don't need to worry about that! Also, as Mercenary is terminal draw, you really want to play a Village first. Well Fortress has you covered there too. Of course, you need 3 Fortresses and a Mercenary in hand in order to pull this off, but as part of an engine that gets those things into hand, it's quite fun.


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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #557 on: May 27, 2016, 10:59:20 pm »
0

I have no idea if this has been discussed already. Probably.

Mercenary + Fortress. I haven't played much Mercenary in general, so it seems to me that feeding it cards to activate it would be a problem; you only get to play it a few times before you don't have junk you want to trash. And it does nothing at all if you don't trash 2 cards. But with Fortress, suddenly you don't need to worry about that! Also, as Mercenary is terminal draw, you really want to play a Village first. Well Fortress has you covered there too. Of course, you need 3 Fortresses and a Mercenary in hand in order to pull this off, but as part of an engine that gets those things into hand, it's quite fun.
The problem is often you start with 3 card hands in a mercenary game so this is bad as your olny draw. (Hard to line up mercenary,fortress *2 after playing a fortress)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #558 on: May 30, 2016, 08:05:26 am »
+3

Artificer/Poor House. This seems like a killer combo. Discard hand, gain something good, play remaining Poor House for an extra $4.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #559 on: May 30, 2016, 08:25:05 am »
+4

This has been noted elsewhere, but Alms/Villa. Every turn just alms for a villa before you play anything. You start each turn with +1 action and +1 coin. It gets you villages for free and you can use the coins to buy power $5 terminals.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #560 on: May 31, 2016, 04:01:26 am »
+2

Artificer/Poor House. This seems like a killer combo. Discard hand, gain something good, play remaining Poor House for an extra $4.

Played a game with Artificer/Library recently. THAT was nice.
I guess Artificer is often strong when you want reduced hand size. Should be really good with Menagerie for example.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #561 on: May 31, 2016, 10:16:27 am »
+1

This has been noted elsewhere, but Alms/Villa. Every turn just alms for a villa before you play anything. You start each turn with +1 action and +1 coin. It gets you villages for free and you can use the coins to buy power $5 terminals.

This might be ok, but as Villa doesn't give +1 card, you don't want a deck full of them.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #562 on: May 31, 2016, 11:39:45 am »
0

I guess Artificer is often strong when you want reduced hand size. Should be really good with Menagerie for example.

I've had a couple games with Artificer and Menagerie, and they work REALLY well together.  Is Artificer the only non-terminal Discard-for-Benefit card?  I can't think of another.  Anyways, you can play Artificer, discard all your doubles (or more if you want a better card), and then play Menagerie to draw 3 more cards.  It quickly becomes easy to do this several times in a turn. 
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #563 on: May 31, 2016, 12:19:12 pm »
+1

Is Artificer the only non-terminal Discard-for-Benefit card?  I can't think of another.

Hamlet?  Another card that has pretty good synergy with Menagerie.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #564 on: May 31, 2016, 12:26:55 pm »
+1

Is Artificer the only non-terminal Discard-for-Benefit card?  I can't think of another.

Hamlet?  Another card that has pretty good synergy with Menagerie.

Cellar, but it draws so it's not quite as great with Menagerie.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #565 on: May 31, 2016, 12:48:02 pm »
+1

Is Artificer the only non-terminal Discard-for-Benefit card?  I can't think of another.

Hamlet?  Another card that has pretty good synergy with Menagerie.

Cellar, but it draws so it's not quite as great with Menagerie.

Warehouse and Oasis can work as well, but usually they need at least some support.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #566 on: May 31, 2016, 03:44:11 pm »
0

Rebuild + Duplicate

In a Rebuild duel, one of the keys is getting more Duchies than your opponent.  Rebuilding an Estate into a Duchy, then calling Duplicates to gain additional Duchies, can be a real game changer.

I just did this in a game (thanks for the tip!), and at one point I Rebuilt a Duchy into the last two Duchies, rather than a Province. My opponent resigned soon after.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #567 on: May 31, 2016, 07:58:05 pm »
0

Is Artificer the only non-terminal Discard-for-Benefit card?  I can't think of another.

Hamlet?  Another card that has pretty good synergy with Menagerie.

Cellar, but it draws so it's not quite as great with Menagerie.

Warehouse and Oasis can work as well, but usually they need at least some support.

Warehouse draws before you discard, so you're not really discarding for the benefit.  The benefit on Oasis is not contingent on the discard either.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #568 on: June 01, 2016, 12:51:56 am »
+2

Wandering winder blogged about opening probabilities with 3p here:
http://wanderingwindergames.blogspot.com/2015/05/opening-probabilities-hitting-3p.html
Ferry and hitting 3 potions
So long as your potion doesn't miss the shuffle you are guaranteed hit 3p on your first shuffle.
That probability of hitting 3p becomes  90.91%
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #569 on: June 02, 2016, 02:11:51 pm »
+2

So, Travelling Fair/Philosopher's Stone is not nearly as good as Travelling Fair/Counting House, but it can still make you win on weak Colony boards. One more situation in which Phil Stone is usable. Who knew.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #570 on: June 03, 2016, 09:27:13 pm »
0

This has been noted elsewhere, but Alms/Villa. Every turn just alms for a villa before you play anything. You start each turn with +1 action and +1 coin. It gets you villages for free and you can use the coins to buy power $5 terminals.

This might be ok, but as Villa doesn't give +1 card, you don't want a deck full of them.
Yeah, but the point is with all the extra money you can fill your deck with cards you DO want, specially terminal draw like catacombs. And you could always pathfind them.  ;)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #571 on: June 07, 2016, 12:20:40 am »
+1

Herbalist + encampment
Herbalist can topdeck gold to make your encampment stay in your deck and it's + buy is useful for draining the pile.
Edit:ninja'd by wachsmuth in his initial reactions video.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 12:30:52 am by Limetime »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #572 on: June 07, 2016, 01:23:26 am »
0

Mission + Baths: $4 for 4VP.

Charm + Peddler/Prince: Charms can gain you multiple Provinces.

Death Cart + Advance: Pick up lots of fodder to gain expensive actions easily.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #573 on: June 07, 2016, 02:23:54 am »
+3

Charm + Peddler/Prince: Charms can gain you multiple Provinces.
This wouldn't work with peddler unless you didn't play any action cards that turn (because peddler would cost less than $8)

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #574 on: June 07, 2016, 04:16:33 am »
0

Charm + Peddler/Prince: Charms can gain you multiple Provinces.
This wouldn't work with peddler unless you didn't play any action cards that turn (because peddler would cost less than $8)

You got me.

Edge cases: Bonfire, Mining Village, other self-trashing actions.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #575 on: June 07, 2016, 08:37:34 am »
0

Mission + Baths: $4 for 4VP.

Charm + Peddler/Prince: Charms can gain you multiple Provinces.

Death Cart + Advance: Pick up lots of fodder to gain expensive actions easily.
Charm really works well with prince because if you play any actions you cannot get province and it is really hard to get more than 1 crown in play and still have 8.
Ninj'd
« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 06:14:54 pm by Limetime »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #576 on: June 08, 2016, 03:46:02 am »
+1

Capital+Herbalist: Don't discard your insane 6$.
Capital+Mandarin: Same here. Not quite a combo, because you don't want that many mandarins.
Capital+Mint: Same here, but you'll be a bit sad to trash your 5-cost just to avoid the debt.
Capital+Crown: Get your 6 twice before discarding is really nice.
Capital+Counterfeit: Awesome. Get 6 twice, without punishment, which is more than enough compensation for trashing a 5$.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #577 on: June 08, 2016, 10:33:51 am »
0

Capital+Herbalist: Don't discard your insane 6$.
Capital+Mandarin: Same here. Not quite a combo, because you don't want that many mandarins.
Capital+Mint: Same here, but you'll be a bit sad to trash your 5-cost just to avoid the debt.
Capital+Crown: Get your 6 twice before discarding is really nice.
Capital+Counterfeit: Awesome. Get 6 twice, without punishment, which is more than enough compensation for trashing a 5$.

Noteworthy that Capital also gives a Buy, so with Crown and Counterfeit, you get two Buys (three with Counterfeit).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #578 on: June 08, 2016, 11:06:20 am »
0


Capital+Counterfeit: Awesome. Get 6 twice, without punishment, which is more than enough compensation for trashing a 5$.

I want to make some snarky comment here about real world finance wheedling money out of nothing and running away from the debt...
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #579 on: June 08, 2016, 11:15:38 am »
+1


Capital+Counterfeit: Awesome. Get 6 twice, without punishment, which is more than enough compensation for trashing a 5$.

I want to make some snarky comment here about real world finance wheedling money out of nothing and running away from the debt...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Economic_Stabilization_Act_of_2008
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #580 on: June 08, 2016, 12:23:43 pm »
+1

Donate + t-map
Open tmap silver
Get tmap turn 3
Get donate turn 4 trashing down to a deck of tmap*2 and silver paying off as much depth as possible
Activate tmap + pay off two dept turn 5
Pay off rest of debt. turn 6 have a deck containing 4 golds and a silver
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #581 on: June 08, 2016, 03:49:57 pm »
+6

Possession - Messenger

Possess your opponent, buy Messenger, get 3 cards for the price of 1!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #582 on: June 08, 2016, 03:54:49 pm »
0

Coin of the realm + Legionary
Coin of the realm counters Legionary by letting you keep two draw cards instead of a village and a draw card. If you have 4 coins of the realm and terminal draw you can usually draw your deck despite Legionary Harsh attack. Remember to alternate your coins of the realm.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #583 on: June 08, 2016, 05:41:02 pm »
+3

Possession - Messenger

Possess your opponent, buy Messenger, get 3 cards for the price of 1!

I don't think this works.

Possessed player buys Messenger, triggering its on-buy effect.  Messenger says:

"gain a card costing up to $4, and each other player gains a copy of it."

The possessed player chooses a card, but never gains it since Possession redirects everything that would be gained.  Therefore, there is no "it" for Messenger to copy, so each other player gains nothing.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #584 on: June 08, 2016, 06:16:35 pm »
0

Raze + tunnel
This is probably bad but
Raze golds to reveal 6 cards into your hand. Put raze or gold into your hand and rinse and repeat.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #585 on: June 08, 2016, 06:19:34 pm »
0

Possession - Messenger

Possess your opponent, buy Messenger, get 3 cards for the price of 1!

I don't think this works.

Possessed player buys Messenger, triggering its on-buy effect.  Messenger says:

"gain a card costing up to $4, and each other player gains a copy of it."

The possessed player chooses a card, but never gains it since Possession redirects everything that would be gained.  Therefore, there is no "it" for Messenger to copy, so each other player gains nothing.

You would still get an extra $4 without giving your opponent(s) one.

math

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #586 on: June 08, 2016, 06:21:05 pm »
0

Possession - Messenger

Possess your opponent, buy Messenger, get 3 cards for the price of 1!

I don't think this works.

Possessed player buys Messenger, triggering its on-buy effect.  Messenger says:

"gain a card costing up to $4, and each other player gains a copy of it."

The possessed player chooses a card, but never gains it since Possession redirects everything that would be gained.  Therefore, there is no "it" for Messenger to copy, so each other player gains nothing.

You would still get an extra $4 without giving your opponent(s) one.

Well, in that case it's essentially a free Messenger with your $4 card.  If you wanted a free Messenger, that can be good - but really, why do you want Messenger in a Possession game?  You want to use your terminal space on Possessions.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #587 on: June 09, 2016, 09:42:11 am »
+1

Legionary/Masqerade.

Legionarys attack is already brutal by itself, but you can still keep some village/smithy-stuff to start with. The threat of a subsequent masq makes it very dangerous to do so, and the attack becomes a real pain.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #588 on: June 09, 2016, 10:44:14 am »
+1

Legionary/Masqerade.

Legionarys attack is already brutal by itself, but you can still keep some village/smithy-stuff to start with. The threat of a subsequent masq makes it very dangerous to do so, and the attack becomes a real pain.

I predict Legionary is going to be almost as infuriating as Torturer when it is activated.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #589 on: June 09, 2016, 12:06:09 pm »
+1

Legionary/Masqerade.

Legionarys attack is already brutal by itself, but you can still keep some village/smithy-stuff to start with. The threat of a subsequent masq makes it very dangerous to do so, and the attack becomes a real pain.

I predict Legionary is going to be almost as infuriating as Torturer when it is activated.
It's worse because you can't just gain all the curses and play count or forge or buy donate
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #590 on: June 09, 2016, 12:40:11 pm »
0

Legionary/Masqerade.

Legionarys attack is already brutal by itself, but you can still keep some village/smithy-stuff to start with. The threat of a subsequent masq makes it very dangerous to do so, and the attack becomes a real pain.

I predict Legionary is going to be almost as infuriating as Torturer when it is activated.
It's worse because you can't just gain all the curses and play count or forge or buy donate

All true. You still end up with a 3 card hand, but man, you could draw something better, but it has to be almost certainly worse.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #591 on: June 09, 2016, 01:05:15 pm »
+2

Ambassador/Defiled Shrine or Ambassador/Triumph

Keep the VP tokens, Ambassador the Curse/Estate to your opponent.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #592 on: June 09, 2016, 01:29:57 pm »
0

Ambassador/Defiled Shrine or Ambassador/Triumph

Keep the VP tokens, Ambassador the Curse/Estate to your opponent.

This works even better with Watchtower.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #593 on: June 10, 2016, 01:03:39 pm »
+2

Ferry / Band of Misfits

You can Ferry a BoM so it's only $3, so that you can gain them easily.  But then when you play the BoM's, they can only be played as $2's (if there are any $2's).  You can then later move the Ferry token to a different pile, then now your BoM's are more useful.  So the question is: When do you want to make that transition?  It's nice that they're cheap, but bad that they're useless; then later, it's nice that they're useful and you have a lot of them, but that came with the opportunity cost of not being able to reap their benefits until now.

Example game:
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160602/log.0.1464902019423.txt
In this game, I didn't even realize the BoM would only be able to be played as $2's until I played one, haha (I've also made the similar mistake with Border Village -- not realizing that you can't gain a $5 with your Ferry'd BV).  Hermit to gain BoM easily.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #594 on: June 12, 2016, 04:40:38 pm »
+1

Transmogrify/Cultist

If you have a Cultist in hand, you can call Transmogrify for +3 cards.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #595 on: June 12, 2016, 07:15:43 pm »
+1

Wedding / Legionary: Get Gold cheap so your Legionaries are always active.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #596 on: June 15, 2016, 12:36:38 pm »
0

Capital + Storyteller

Play a storyteller with capital for 6 extra cards.  By itself, this isn't anything special since it still gives you debt, but if you can find a way around the debt via a megaturn or just not buying things, it can be powerful.  To illustrate, with artificer you can draw your deck with storyteller+capital and use artificer to gain more of each of these cards.  Once you get going, you can just start gaining provinces with artificer and drawing back the cards you discarded with storyteller+capital.  I realize that Storyteller + Artificer is itself a strong combo, but Capital really seems to do a lot with it, keeping you from having to buy more than a couple other treasures.

I mostly just like the idea of accruing a huge pile of debt that you never intend to pay back.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #597 on: June 15, 2016, 01:57:45 pm »
0

Transmogrify/Cultist

If you have a Cultist in hand, you can call Transmogrify for +3 cards.

Even if you're just transmogrifying it into another Cultist!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #598 on: June 17, 2016, 01:26:14 am »
+1

Encampment/Herbalist: Make sure you always have a Gold/Plunder in hand to reveal.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #599 on: June 17, 2016, 08:21:13 am »
0

Ferry/Grand Market: Make use of your Workshops/Ironworks/Armories and much more
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #600 on: June 17, 2016, 12:32:51 pm »
+2

Treasure Trove + Gardens

Even by itself, this is decent.  Open Silver/Silver, get a bunch of treasure troves, then buy gardens while flooding your deck with cards from TT.  I haven't tried this with a simulator, but I think it's roughly on par with Gear/BM.  If you have the time, it might be worth picking up a province, since 8 gardens with 50+ cards and a province beats 7 provinces (and a duchy).  A decent source of +buy (or banquet) would definitely help this, though it might also enable a gardens rush, which would likely beat TT+G as it's fairly important to pick up the treasure troves before the gardens with this.

Banquet + IGG

With banquet, it's not too hard to buy an IGG every turn from turn 1 until they run out.  At this point, you'll hopefully be at a point where you can hit 5 on most turns to rush the duchies (or better yet, gardens).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #601 on: June 17, 2016, 02:11:46 pm »
+4

Treasure Map + Triumph

On the turn that you hit two Treasure Maps, buy Triumph.  You can easily pay off the debt next turn and still have plenty left over.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #602 on: June 17, 2016, 08:20:33 pm »
0

Encampment/Herbalist: Make sure you always have a Gold/Plunder in hand to reveal.
I just played a game with this last night, and it worked well.  The downside is that with only 5 Encampments, it becomes less useful if you're contested (of course, unless your opponent is mirroring, you'll likely get those Encampments back eventually).  As added synergy, the Encampments leave you with extra actions for Herbalist, and the +buy from Herbalist is useful in picking up cheap Encampments.

Theoretically, Legionary also has some synergy with Herbalist, but I doubt it's as good; both are non-drawing terminals, so without an engine, you're less likely to get them to work together reliably, and with an engine, you can just wait to play Legionary after you've drawn your Gold (I'd still say Herbalist is slightly better in a deck with Legionary than in a deck without, but it's probably not a big difference).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #603 on: June 18, 2016, 12:47:46 pm »
+1

Possession - Messenger

Possess your opponent, buy Messenger, get 3 cards for the price of 1!

I don't think this works.

Possessed player buys Messenger, triggering its on-buy effect.  Messenger says:

"gain a card costing up to $4, and each other player gains a copy of it."

The possessed player chooses a card, but never gains it since Possession redirects everything that would be gained.  Therefore, there is no "it" for Messenger to copy, so each other player gains nothing.

Well, it works on Making Fun (turn 12 [possessed]).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #604 on: June 18, 2016, 01:37:55 pm »
+2

Possession - Messenger

Possess your opponent, buy Messenger, get 3 cards for the price of 1!

I don't think this works.

Possessed player buys Messenger, triggering its on-buy effect.  Messenger says:

"gain a card costing up to $4, and each other player gains a copy of it."

The possessed player chooses a card, but never gains it since Possession redirects everything that would be gained.  Therefore, there is no "it" for Messenger to copy, so each other player gains nothing.

Well, it works on Making Fun (turn 12 [possessed]).

Looks like a bug, which isn't too surprising.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #605 on: June 19, 2016, 10:55:46 am »
+1

Windfall + Villa

Play enough cards to draw your deck and have $9 and two buys. Buy Windfall, gain 3 Gold; buy Villa, returning to your Action phase; play some other actions to draw your new Gold.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #606 on: June 20, 2016, 10:06:39 am »
+2

Artificer + Inheritance

As a Peddler variant, Artificer helps you reach $7.  Inherit some good 3 or 4-cost card.  Use Artificer to gain and topdeck super Estates for only two cards.  I used this to good effect in this game.

Chariot Race + Spy/Scrying Pool/Sea Hag

Rig the race by leaving a Copper or Curse on top of your opponent's deck!  Hardly game-breaking, but it's a nice bonus.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #607 on: June 20, 2016, 02:24:16 pm »
+4

Stonemason + Groundskeeper

Ordinarily, trashing a province for two duchies isn't so great, but when you have five Groundskeepers in play, it nets you 10 VP.  And it didn't cost you anything, so now you can buy another duchy for 8 VP.  Also, Stonemason overpay is a good way to get all those Groundskeepers in the first place.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #608 on: June 20, 2016, 06:21:47 pm »
+3

Windfall + Villa

Play enough cards to draw your deck and have $9 and two buys. Buy Windfall, gain 3 Gold; buy Villa, returning to your Action phase; play some other actions to draw your new Gold.

if you have haggler in play and watchtower in hand you can buy windfall and cultist gaining villa and trashing cultist; every iteration you will have exactly ten from 3 golds and villa, so you can three-pile in one turn.

(I know what we're thinking about hmm... let me see... 5-card combos but it feels so nice!)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #609 on: June 22, 2016, 02:08:42 pm »
+3

Royal Carriage / Menagerie

Play your Menagerie.  If it would be activated again, call your RC; else, don't.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #610 on: June 22, 2016, 02:47:51 pm »
0

Royal Carriage / Menagerie

Play your Menagerie.  If it would be activated again, call your RC; else, don't.

I love Royal Carriage because it can do stuff like this in general. You can decide based off of your first draw if you want to play it again or not. More knowledge is an ability Throne Room did not give you, you just had to play it blindly and hope.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #611 on: June 23, 2016, 06:44:50 am »
+1

From the discussion on another thread:

Donate + Outpost

The Donate effect is executed between turns, which means the three cards for the Outpost extra moves are discarded and replaced by five. The two extra cards drawn will unlikely afford the payload to pay off the debt, but may provide the springload to get a draw-your-deck engine going more reliably. This is one of the rather rare occurrences we might see more than one Donations (without using its trashing ability) per player and match.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #612 on: June 23, 2016, 09:27:04 am »
+3

Treasure Trove + Gardens

Even by itself, this is decent.  Open Silver/Silver, get a bunch of treasure troves, then buy gardens while flooding your deck with cards from TT.  I haven't tried this with a simulator, but I think it's roughly on par with Gear/BM.  If you have the time, it might be worth picking up a province, since 8 gardens with 50+ cards and a province beats 7 provinces (and a duchy).  A decent source of +buy (or banquet) would definitely help this, though it might also enable a gardens rush, which would likely beat TT+G as it's fairly important to pick up the treasure troves before the gardens with this.

Treasure Trove is amazing in all sorts of alt-VP slogs. Duke and Silk Road love it too. It's like Cache, but way better.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #613 on: June 24, 2016, 07:36:42 pm »
+3

Quest- Haunted Woods

Quest completely nullifies Haunted Woods' attack, provided you have an unneeded buy. Just discard theresof your hand (hopefully <6 cards). Note: You should remember that this needs to be your first buy.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #614 on: June 26, 2016, 04:28:38 am »
0

Here's one that came up recently (so i didn't make this up):
Mint/Wedding/Duchess (or Poor House)
Open Mint/Duchess, hope to hit $4 with Duchess and the Coppers, buy Wedding, Mint Gold. Of course Mint/Wedding is strong on it's own, but only a Silver for $2 or less will help you pick up Wedding by as early as turn 3.

Similarly, Mint/Traveller makes sure you will get through that Traveller line in the matter of a few turns.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #615 on: June 26, 2016, 09:31:09 am »
+2

Mint and a lot of debt cards synerize
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #616 on: June 26, 2016, 09:46:14 am »
0

Mint and a lot of debt cards synerize

That's a very good point, though Wedding seems especially relevant for providing a target for Mint.

Although, thinking about it, Borrow would have been even better than Duchess, ensuring a Mint/Silver opening and making it easier to reach $4 later on, too. Of course, that event has a lot of relevant interactions, and the fun with Duchess was how weak it is otherwise.
(Actually i didn't use Duchess in the game we played, but my own card, Sheriff - but Duchess fills the same gap.)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #617 on: June 26, 2016, 12:05:43 pm »
0

You can Mint a Fortune.  If only that were actually a useful thing to do.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #618 on: June 26, 2016, 01:09:44 pm »
+3

You can Mint a Fortune.  If only that were actually a useful thing to do.
stonemason it to gain two provinces or two city squares or some mysterious other pairing of those things
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #619 on: June 26, 2016, 01:20:11 pm »
+1

Charm + Groundskeeper

Really good synergy here. +Buy useful for picking up Estates or Duchy in the end game for max points. The other half of Charm lets you gain Groundskeepers for free with other $5 cost engine parts (or Duchy).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #620 on: June 26, 2016, 02:26:41 pm »
0

Governor/Apprentice: If you play a Governor deck, especially in a mirror, you won't run out of stuff to use as Apprentice fodder. On the flipside, you don't have to use the +Cards on Governor as often, which is useful because you really don't want to help your opponent that much.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #621 on: June 26, 2016, 02:39:13 pm »
0

You can Mint a Fortune.  If only that were actually a useful thing to do.
stonemason it to gain two provinces or two city squares or some mysterious other pairing of those things

Or just keep the second one for increased reliability in a deck that doesn't fully draw itself.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #622 on: June 26, 2016, 03:21:44 pm »
+1

Charm + Groundskeeper

Really good synergy here. +Buy useful for picking up Estates or Duchy in the end game for max points. The other half of Charm lets you gain Groundskeepers for free with other $5 cost engine parts (or Duchy).

You can do some crazy stuff in the end game as well. Stack up Charms with Groundskeepers, and buy a Charm or the last Groundskeeper, piling out the rest of the Duchies (and netting tons of VP) in one buy.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 03:24:27 pm by Seprix »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #623 on: June 27, 2016, 10:41:29 pm »
+3

Stonemason + Grand Market

With 8 coins, you can circumvent Grand Market's on buy restriction and gain two of them (plus a Stonemason)!  At the end of the game you can use your Stonemasons to trash some Grand Markets for Duchies (if appropriate).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #624 on: June 28, 2016, 02:02:39 am »
0

Stonemason + Grand Market

With 8 coins, you can circumvent Grand Market's on buy restriction and gain two of them (plus a Stonemason)!  At the end of the game you can use your Stonemasons to trash some Grand Markets for Duchies (if appropriate).

One caveat with that is that the big chain X still goes up over the GMs if you have Coppers in play, and so you don't know how many are left (annoying if, say, you can't remember if there are 1 or 2 left).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #625 on: June 28, 2016, 02:49:12 am »
+6

Forge + Fortress

Needs at least one draw card to really work. Aim for an early Forge, picking up Fortresses along the way. You then use Forge to slim down your deck, ideally picking up a 2nd Forge if you can, and Forge 2 Fortress -> Province repeatedly.

This isn't as convoluted as it sounds, because you can get away with trashing almost all of your treasures once you get a Forge. If Forge doesn't collide with 2 Fortresses, you can often trash 1 Fortress to gain another, or trash Fortress + Silver to gain another Forge, or trash Province to Province.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #626 on: July 04, 2016, 12:08:24 am »
+2

bridge troll + alms
You can now alms 5 costers  two turns in a row. This is really good in the opening because bridge troll is light house normally for your economy during the first two turns.
On a five two this is incredibly good because you can get a 4 cost a bridge trolls and two miscellaneous 5 costs after the first two shuffles.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #627 on: July 05, 2016, 09:12:04 am »
+2

Port + City Quarter

Not a crazy, broken interaction, but a nice way to quickly build up action density so that City Quarter draws a lot of cards.  Along that same vein, I haven't had a board with this particular two-card combo yet, but I assume that Magpie + City Quarter is also a "neat and potentially useful card interaction."
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #628 on: July 05, 2016, 09:18:37 am »
+3

Baths + Miser

Miser is okay but you sure do spend a lot of turns not doing anything. Baths makes those turns actually really productive! This applies to any Trasher really but better trashers are more likely to be contested by multiple opponents and the strategy just kind of cancels out then.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #629 on: July 08, 2016, 05:36:16 pm »
+3

Artificer + Hermit

Get a few artificers and madmen, and gain several provinces in one megaturn.  Artificer both helps you gain the provinces, and also increases your deck size (which you want), doing something useful on the turns where you turn your hermits into madmen.  Since you really need around 25 cards for this to go off, it might be better to not trash your estates with hermit, especially since you're mostly not buying things anyway.  A cheap source of +buy helps you buy extra green at the end of the megaturn if you have cards left in your hand.

This isn't anything amazing, but not terrible.  Without +buy it seems to be roughly on par with Gear BM.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #630 on: July 11, 2016, 08:57:26 pm »
+1

Artificer / Menagerie

Discard some cards, topdeck a Menagerie, play your other Menagerie, repeat
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Seprix

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #631 on: July 11, 2016, 09:06:23 pm »
+1

Sacrifice/Great Hall/Ironworks

A legitimate rush strategy. Gain Great Halls with Ironworks, trash them for a net VP gain with Sacrifice while also drawing cards. A good way to get some points while building up.
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Loschmidt

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #632 on: July 12, 2016, 01:23:43 am »
+2

Salt the earth + Tomb

Why bother ever buying cards
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eHalcyon

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #633 on: July 12, 2016, 01:30:38 am »
0

Salt the earth + Tomb

Why bother ever buying cards

Because that's $4 for 2VP, which isn't all that much. :P
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #634 on: July 12, 2016, 07:43:58 am »
0

Salt the earth + Tomb

Why bother ever buying cards

Because that's $4 for 2VP, which isn't all that much. :P

$4 for 2 VP no cards is pretty good actually. I think it's gonna take awhile for people to get how much better buying static amounts of VP without a card attached can be. Obviously you can't always just skip actual Victory cards but VP is good man
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Seprix

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #635 on: July 12, 2016, 10:16:33 am »
0

Salt The Earth + Tomb is actually a viable combination.

Open Steward/Salt The Earth on Province. You have +2 VP already.

Assuming good shuffles, you only need to trash 2 Estates with Steward before you get guaranteed $4 every turn. So let's assume you get to Steward trash 2 Estates T3. (for 2 more VP!)

After that, you get to buy Salt The Earth every turn.

The Provinces will be emptied by Turn 10, and you will have 18 VP. Not bad at all. That's the equivalent of 3 provinces in 10 Turns. It is important to note that your opponent will have thinned down as well, netting him some VP as well. But assuming a weaker board with no +buy or gains, this could be a legitimate way to win a game.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #636 on: July 12, 2016, 10:20:59 am »
0

I wonder, in a game with Salt the Earth and Tomb, with $8 and 2 buys, if it's better to buy a Province or trash two. I guess that could be a thing for the simulator.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #637 on: July 12, 2016, 10:54:03 am »
0

I wonder, in a game with Salt the Earth and Tomb, with $8 and 2 buys, if it's better to buy a Province or trash two. I guess that could be a thing for the simulator.
Depends if you are ahead or not.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #638 on: July 12, 2016, 11:51:18 am »
0

Salt the earth + Tomb

Why bother ever buying cards

Because that's $4 for 2VP, which isn't all that much. :P

$4 for 2 VP no cards is pretty good actually. I think it's gonna take awhile for people to get how much better buying static amounts of VP without a card attached can be. Obviously you can't always just skip actual Victory cards but VP is good man


My point was that it's not nearly good enough to buy nothing else. For example, in Seprix's example an opponent could easily win just by buying an early Province or two, considering they also get bonus VP from thinning and can likewise use Salt the Earth to pile out after.  Both players would have to contest Provinces some to be competitive.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #639 on: July 12, 2016, 08:30:40 pm »
0

Salt the earth + Tomb

Why bother ever buying cards

Because that's $4 for 2VP, which isn't all that much. :P

Great Hall is $3 for 1VP. And it stinks, usually.
This is a much better deal, though. Not only is the price/VP ratio better, but the main difference is that piling out Great Hall doesn't end the game. If i buy six of these and always trash Province, the Provinces left are worth just as many points. Can i reach $4 seven times before you reach $8 twice? I think yes.

Of course if you recognize this behaviour, there are ways to deal with it, but they aren't as trivial. Buy "hard" VP except Provinces (which will usually mean Duchies, a measly +1VP and a dead card), use your deck that didn't just buy "Salt the Earth" to buy the Event twice (non-trivial to do), or attack your opponent (keeping them from $4 will be a challenge, but cursing sounds nice). Either way, coping with the headstart of the player who does this immediately looks like it will be a challenge.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #640 on: July 12, 2016, 10:44:10 pm »
0

Salt the earth + Tomb

Why bother ever buying cards

Because that's $4 for 2VP, which isn't all that much. :P

Great Hall is $3 for 1VP. And it stinks, usually.
This is a much better deal, though. Not only is the price/VP ratio better, but the main difference is that piling out Great Hall doesn't end the game. If i buy six of these and always trash Province, the Provinces left are worth just as many points. Can i reach $4 seven times before you reach $8 twice? I think yes.

Of course if you recognize this behaviour, there are ways to deal with it, but they aren't as trivial. Buy "hard" VP except Provinces (which will usually mean Duchies, a measly +1VP and a dead card), use your deck that didn't just buy "Salt the Earth" to buy the Event twice (non-trivial to do), or attack your opponent (keeping them from $4 will be a challenge, but cursing sounds nice). Either way, coping with the headstart of the player who does this immediately looks like it will be a challenge.

Someone should take it to the simulators.  I'm still not convinced though.

Can you reach $4 seven times before I reach $8 twice?  It's not so clear cut to me, but I actually lean toward no.  Suppose you start going at it immediately.  You're hitting $4 every 2 turns, so you need 13-14 turns.  That's certainly enough time for me to get 2 Provinces, even with pure Big Money.  You can buy other cards to improve your rate, but that also usually costs a turn for each card you pick up, and the vast majority of economy cards are geared toward helping you get more total coin on a given turn rather than helping you consistently hit $4, so I don't think you get much help there.  (It also violates the part that I was arguing against -- that you don't need to bother ever buying cards.)

But it's even more complicated.  What if I build up a little, buy a Province and maybe a Duchy or two while Salting along side you?  There are lots of ways this could play out.  If there's a trasher on the board, how does that figure into either strategy (with Tomb VP)?

Salt the Earth + Tomb certainly belongs in this thread as a neat interaction, and it's definitely something to watch out for.  I only take issue with the idea that you don't need to buy anything else.  2VP isn't all that much so while the Province-piling is a threat, I think the player who builds up a little can take control pretty easily.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #641 on: July 12, 2016, 11:32:07 pm »
+1

Salt the earth + Tomb

Why bother ever buying cards

Because that's $4 for 2VP, which isn't all that much. :P

Great Hall is $3 for 1VP. And it stinks, usually.
This is a much better deal, though. Not only is the price/VP ratio better, but the main difference is that piling out Great Hall doesn't end the game. If i buy six of these and always trash Province, the Provinces left are worth just as many points. Can i reach $4 seven times before you reach $8 twice? I think yes.

Of course if you recognize this behaviour, there are ways to deal with it, but they aren't as trivial. Buy "hard" VP except Provinces (which will usually mean Duchies, a measly +1VP and a dead card), use your deck that didn't just buy "Salt the Earth" to buy the Event twice (non-trivial to do), or attack your opponent (keeping them from $4 will be a challenge, but cursing sounds nice). Either way, coping with the headstart of the player who does this immediately looks like it will be a challenge.

Someone should take it to the simulators.  I'm still not convinced though.

Can you reach $4 seven times before I reach $8 twice?  It's not so clear cut to me, but I actually lean toward no.  Suppose you start going at it immediately.  You're hitting $4 every 2 turns, so you need 13-14 turns.  That's certainly enough time for me to get 2 Provinces, even with pure Big Money.  You can buy other cards to improve your rate, but that also usually costs a turn for each card you pick up, and the vast majority of economy cards are geared toward helping you get more total coin on a given turn rather than helping you consistently hit $4, so I don't think you get much help there.  (It also violates the part that I was arguing against -- that you don't need to bother ever buying cards.)

But it's even more complicated.  What if I build up a little, buy a Province and maybe a Duchy or two while Salting along side you?  There are lots of ways this could play out.  If there's a trasher on the board, how does that figure into either strategy (with Tomb VP)?

Salt the Earth + Tomb certainly belongs in this thread as a neat interaction, and it's definitely something to watch out for.  I only take issue with the idea that you don't need to buy anything else.  2VP isn't all that much so while the Province-piling is a threat, I think the player who builds up a little can take control pretty easily.
Buying silvers on 3 greatly inhances the chance of hitting 4 +
So 9 turns is a reasonable estimate.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #642 on: July 13, 2016, 01:58:20 am »
+1

Buying silvers on 3 greatly inhances the chance of hitting 4 +
So 9 turns is a reasonable estimate.

But that's buying a card, which was deemed unnecessary at the start. ;)

So I tried some super simple simulation via proxy on Dominiate to answer Asper's question: "Can I reach $4 seven times before you reach $8 twice?"

Here's the code for the Salt strategy:

Code: [Select]
{
  name: 'PureSalt'
  requires: ['Great Hall']
  gainPriority: (state, my) ->
    if state.supply.Colony?
      [
      ]
    else
      [
          "Great Hall" if my.coins > 3
          "Silver"
      ]
}

Great Hall is a proxy for Salt the Earth here.  It buys StE with 4+ and Silver otherwise.  Obviously I can't run this thousands of times to see what wins, but I can run single games a few times and check the game log to see when the 7th Great Hall is purchased.

Results from 10 trials:

10
10
9
10
9
8
10
11
10
11

Mean: 9.8
Mode: 10 (5 times)

It hit a speedy 8 turns once, a slow 11 turns twice.

Now here's a naive Smithy bot that rushes Provinces. 

Code: [Select]
{
  name: 'RushSmithy'
  requires: ['Smithy']
  gainPriority: (state, my) -> [
    "Province"   
    "Gold"
    "Smithy" if my.countInDeck("Smithy") < 2 \
             and my.numCardsInDeck() >= 16
    "Smithy" if my.countInDeck("Smithy") < 1
    "Silver"
  ]
}

When does it buy the second Province?  10 trials:
10
13
8
11
8
8
10
10
8
8

Mean: 9.4
Mode: 8 (5 times)

It hit a speedy 8 turns a whopping 5 times, but a slow 11 turns once and an abysmal 13 turns once. 

It's close, but it looks to me like going for Provinces has an edge here.  Pure Salt is more consistent while the rush can be pretty blistering to 2 Provinces.  However, these are both naive approaches, and I'd guess that the rush has overall more control and flexibility which will give it the edge when played responsively.  OTOH, buying the 2nd Province vs. the 6 StE buys is only achieving an equal score, so that's a point in Salt's favour.

There's lots of strategic wiggle room here for optimization though -- the rush might be using something worse than Smithy, both parties could be buying/trashing Duchy, the Province rush could potentially make use of Salt the Earth as well.

But I think my argument stands.  You shouldn't neglect buying cards even if you intend to Salt all the way down.  You should certainly take Silver at least, and you will probably be better served by buying at least a few other things as well.

Edit: I also just noticed the second Smithy rule in the rush bot that is unlikely to be optimal.  I just edited down the SmithyBM bot and didn't give it much thought, but I'm guessing that getting the second Smithy earlier or not at all may be better (with the current rule, it's probably a waste of time when it happens).
« Last Edit: July 13, 2016, 02:03:00 am by eHalcyon »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #643 on: July 13, 2016, 02:04:33 am »
+1

Something to think about, what if the opposing player goes for Duchies against the Salt Rush
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #644 on: July 13, 2016, 05:08:27 am »
+3

Ran into Scheme + Teacher yesterday, turning Schemes into Alchemists without Potion is pretty fun.
Also, Scheming called Teachers to immediately get another benefit next turn.

Pathfinding + Hamlet is also a nice combo since Hamlets make it easier to buy more Hamlets. Those $2 cards that can give you a buy and can turn into cantrips or Labs are fun. Candlestick Maker into Market and Squire into Bazaar also seems like a pretty sweet deal.
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Seprix

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #645 on: July 13, 2016, 11:38:26 am »
0

Something to think about, what if the opposing player goes for Duchies against the Salt Rush

I hope we call it the Salt Rush from now on.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #646 on: July 13, 2016, 01:53:34 pm »
+4

Man, I'm having lots of fun with Adventures.

Opened Tunnel -> Scouting Party for a turn 2 Gold today (5/6 chance of hitting).
The rest of the board was pretty lame, so Scouting Party with Tunnel was a pretty fun strategy.
There was also Cellar.

Lots of turns of $10+ (because Golds) where you can just do Scouting Party + Province.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #647 on: July 13, 2016, 10:50:54 pm »
0

Buying silvers on 3 greatly inhances the chance of hitting 4 +
So 9 turns is a reasonable estimate.

But that's buying a card, which was deemed unnecessary at the start. ;)

So I tried some super simple simulation via proxy on Dominiate to answer Asper's question: "Can I reach $4 seven times before you reach $8 twice?"

Here's the code for the Salt strategy:

Code: [Select]
{
  name: 'PureSalt'
  requires: ['Great Hall']
  gainPriority: (state, my) ->
    if state.supply.Colony?
      [
      ]
    else
      [
          "Great Hall" if my.coins > 3
          "Silver"
      ]
}

Great Hall is a proxy for Salt the Earth here.  It buys StE with 4+ and Silver otherwise.  Obviously I can't run this thousands of times to see what wins, but I can run single games a few times and check the game log to see when the 7th Great Hall is purchased.

Results from 10 trials:

10
10
9
10
9
8
10
11
10
11

Mean: 9.8
Mode: 10 (5 times)

It hit a speedy 8 turns once, a slow 11 turns twice.

Now here's a naive Smithy bot that rushes Provinces. 

Code: [Select]
{
  name: 'RushSmithy'
  requires: ['Smithy']
  gainPriority: (state, my) -> [
    "Province"   
    "Gold"
    "Smithy" if my.countInDeck("Smithy") < 2 \
             and my.numCardsInDeck() >= 16
    "Smithy" if my.countInDeck("Smithy") < 1
    "Silver"
  ]
}

When does it buy the second Province?  10 trials:
10
13
8
11
8
8
10
10
8
8

Mean: 9.4
Mode: 8 (5 times)

It hit a speedy 8 turns a whopping 5 times, but a slow 11 turns once and an abysmal 13 turns once. 

It's close, but it looks to me like going for Provinces has an edge here.  Pure Salt is more consistent while the rush can be pretty blistering to 2 Provinces.  However, these are both naive approaches, and I'd guess that the rush has overall more control and flexibility which will give it the edge when played responsively.  OTOH, buying the 2nd Province vs. the 6 StE buys is only achieving an equal score, so that's a point in Salt's favour.

There's lots of strategic wiggle room here for optimization though -- the rush might be using something worse than Smithy, both parties could be buying/trashing Duchy, the Province rush could potentially make use of Salt the Earth as well.

But I think my argument stands.  You shouldn't neglect buying cards even if you intend to Salt all the way down.  You should certainly take Silver at least, and you will probably be better served by buying at least a few other things as well.

Edit: I also just noticed the second Smithy rule in the rush bot that is unlikely to be optimal.  I just edited down the SmithyBM bot and didn't give it much thought, but I'm guessing that getting the second Smithy earlier or not at all may be better (with the current rule, it's probably a waste of time when it happens).

Wow!

You know I just said "why bother buying cards" flippantly, like "here's a lazy scenario where you can get points and do nothing". I never expected it to be good, or even okay. This is the "neat and potentially useful" thread not the "dominant strategy" thread.

I am amazed straight up Salt/Silver can beat a naive smithy BM even occasionally. Although wait we're not running the head to head are we, smithyBM would notice the low provinces and start getting Duchy over gold before that. You'd only need a few Duchies for the smithyBM to break it.

This is really interesting, how do you play StE properly? Looks to me that a BM game could use it to accelerate the endgame if they were winning. I want to see a head to head smithyBM game where one buys StE over Duchy and trashes a Province if it'll put it in the lead. Geronimoo's simlulator has the Empires cards up right? Shame i'm at work.....
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #648 on: July 13, 2016, 11:00:54 pm »
0

The 'Pure Salt' strategy. Salt The Earth just has the best name ever.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #649 on: July 13, 2016, 11:12:35 pm »
0

This is really interesting, how do you play StE properly? Looks to me that a BM game could use it to accelerate the endgame if they were winning. I want to see a head to head smithyBM game where one buys StE over Duchy and trashes a Province if it'll put it in the lead. Geronimoo's simlulator has the Empires cards up right? Shame i'm at work.....

Any strategy can use StE to accelerate the end game. An engine can probably use it better by generating plenty of coin and buys to Salt multiple times, though BM strategies can probably use it sooner to exert pressure. Tomb isn't needed for this.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #650 on: July 13, 2016, 11:17:06 pm »
0

This is really interesting, how do you play StE properly? Looks to me that a BM game could use it to accelerate the endgame if they were winning. I want to see a head to head smithyBM game where one buys StE over Duchy and trashes a Province if it'll put it in the lead. Geronimoo's simlulator has the Empires cards up right? Shame i'm at work.....

Any strategy can use StE to accelerate the end game. An engine can probably use it better by generating plenty of coin and buys to Salt multiple times, though BM strategies can probably use it sooner to exert pressure. Tomb isn't needed for this.
The problem is that after a few provinces the bm player can just salt mill provinces(kinda like a rebuild player)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #651 on: July 16, 2016, 12:36:36 pm »
+3

Bonfire + Poor House

I think there's something to be said about using Bonfire to quickly trash 6 Coppers and then buying a Poor House with your 1 remaining Copper and going from there.  Note that you have a 50% chance of affording Bonfire on T3 in this case.

Example:
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160715/log.0.1468568762911.txt

EDIT:
Assuming a 4/3 opening.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 11:35:31 am by Dingan »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #652 on: July 19, 2016, 08:52:36 am »
0

Storyteller + Treasure Trove

If you play Treasure Trove to Storyteller, you gain the Copper and Gold before the draw portion of Storyteller, so it's easy to draw them into hand immediately!  As usual, this is especially powerful if you have some way to trash the Coppers and/or the Golds (for value).  But, Storyteller loves Gold and can sift through Copper, so you don't need to trash them.

I put this synergy to use in this game: http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160719/log.0.1468893006148.txt
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #653 on: July 19, 2016, 10:22:35 am »
0

Quarry + Distant Lands + Summon

Want a free +4 VP without having to buy and play Distant Lands? Simply have a Quarry (or any cost reductor) in play and gain Distant Lands through Summon! I did this in a game, and while I lost so badly (I didn't connect Tournament with Province until all the Prizes were gone), doing this helped me stay in the game somewhat instead of it being a total blow-out.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #654 on: July 19, 2016, 10:35:32 am »
+4

Messenger + Split Piles

Kind of minor, but if you grab the last card off the top of a split pile with Messenger's on-buy, nobody else gets one!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #655 on: July 19, 2016, 11:47:56 am »
0

Quarry + Distant Lands + Summon

Want a free +4 VP without having to buy and play Distant Lands? Simply have a Quarry (or any cost reductor) in play and gain Distant Lands through Summon! I did this in a game, and while I lost so badly (I didn't connect Tournament with Province until all the Prizes were gone), doing this helped me stay in the game somewhat instead of it being a total blow-out.

Technically you still have to play Distant Lands. Matters if the game ends before the start of your next turn.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #656 on: July 19, 2016, 01:42:29 pm »
0

Quarry + Distant Lands + Summon

Want a free +4 VP without having to buy and play Distant Lands? Simply have a Quarry (or any cost reductor) in play and gain Distant Lands through Summon! I did this in a game, and while I lost so badly (I didn't connect Tournament with Province until all the Prizes were gone), doing this helped me stay in the game somewhat instead of it being a total blow-out.

Technically you still have to play Distant Lands. Matters if the game ends before the start of your next turn.

Well, yes. Who is going to buy Distant Lands with an immanent ending?
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eHalcyon

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #657 on: July 19, 2016, 01:51:36 pm »
0

Quarry + Distant Lands + Summon

Want a free +4 VP without having to buy and play Distant Lands? Simply have a Quarry (or any cost reductor) in play and gain Distant Lands through Summon! I did this in a game, and while I lost so badly (I didn't connect Tournament with Province until all the Prizes were gone), doing this helped me stay in the game somewhat instead of it being a total blow-out.

Technically you still have to play Distant Lands. Matters if the game ends before the start of your next turn.

Well, yes. Who is going to buy Distant Lands with an immanent ending?

Was responding to "without having to buy and play". You still play it. :P

Who buys with imminent ending? Well, you don't buy with Summon, but it could be someone who didn't realize the game was endable on the opponent's next turn, or someone who was hoping that the opponent would be unable to. Or someone 3-piling on Distant Lands, never mind the 4VP.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #658 on: July 19, 2016, 02:12:20 pm »
0

Okay, enough edgecases. If such a scenario happened then of course something different would have to be done.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #659 on: July 21, 2016, 11:02:54 am »
+4

Watchtower + Villa

Not really a whole lot here that hasn't been seen before with similar combinations, but there's a lot that these two cards like about each other:

1. Villa doesn't draw a card, making Watchtower's draw more effective.
2. Normally having a dead watchtower isn't bad cause it lets you topdeck stuff.  Now you can topdeck something, and if you can also get a villa, draw it with watchtower and play it.
3. Maybe the best part: play your treasures, get a villa, now your hand is small for your watchtower to draw lots of cards.  It feels like storyteller, except you actually get to use the money you play.

One drawback is that this chokes pretty easily on green/junk you can't play.  Estate trashing helps a lot, and gaining is also good as you can often topdeck the gains and play them in the same turn.  Putting these together, remodel variants are just awesome with this.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #660 on: July 21, 2016, 11:15:16 am »
0

Villa is basically a crappy Festival once the on-gain effect is done, so it makes sense that it comboes with Watchtower.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #661 on: July 21, 2016, 09:16:55 pm »
+1

Mission/tfb/Quest: I had a game recently where i used my regular turn to tfb Gold into Provinces, bought Mission, and bought Quest to get my Gold back. I guess it works whenever you want a Gold for $4, but this was especially nice as remodeling works on the mission turn also.

Also: Mission/Baths.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #662 on: July 21, 2016, 09:31:30 pm »
0

Also: Mission/Baths.

Keep in mind that Baths only works if you didn't gain a card on your turn, which negates most other Mission tricks.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #663 on: July 21, 2016, 10:27:30 pm »
+1

Also: Mission/Baths.

Keep in mind that Baths only works if you didn't gain a card on your turn, which negates most other Mission tricks.

Well, like Salt the Earth/Tomb before, it's at the very least 2VP for $4, as long as it's there. And you can still attack or trash down.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #664 on: July 26, 2016, 08:57:37 am »
+4

Masterpiece/Capital
Easy one. Spike as high as you can to flood your deck with Silvers, then pay off the debt in a yiffie. I only did this twice and ended up with 23 Silvers. Obviously doesn't work well against discard attacks.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #665 on: July 26, 2016, 01:24:39 pm »
+4

Tomb/Watchtower

Use all your extra buys to buy and trash coppers for VPs. And, the one that came up in the game I played: Banquet/Tomb/Watchtower. Banquet is (edgecases aside) strictly superior to any non-victory card costing up to 5 with a watchtower in hand.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #666 on: July 26, 2016, 01:34:06 pm »
+6

Goons + Donate

With donate, hopefully it shouldn't require too much help to build a deck capable of playing 3-4 goons a turn.  At this point, you can buy a bunch of copper and get donate with your last buy to trash them.  Similar to goons watchtower, though donate helps you get the engine running more quickly and requires you to pay off the debt each turn.  Probably with donate on the board there are a number of powerful strategies, though 16 points a turn seems pretty good if you can reliably get 4 goons in play.  Obviously, if you can fit in other +buy as well, it will do a lot for you.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #667 on: July 29, 2016, 09:47:06 pm »
+7

Transmute + Bonfire

This is a bit of a weird one. Open Potion/Bonfire. If you have any luck at all, you'll be able to buy a Transmute and another Bonfire on turns 3 and 4. By that point, your Transmute is very likely to collide with Estates. If there are no other Potion cards you want, you can trash the Potion with another Bonfire later. And if you don't want to keep your Transmute until the endgame (for Duchies), you can buy a Bonfire to trash it on the turn you convert your last Estate into Gold.

This still works best if you have another use for Potions. Failing that, it's very useful to have a $2 card you want to load up on for the early turns when you only have $2.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #668 on: July 30, 2016, 06:55:08 am »
0

Messenger + Split Piles

Kind of minor, but if you grab the last card off the top of a split pile with Messenger's on-buy, nobody else gets one!

I did something similar with the Knights pile; the last one of the pile was the $4 cost.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #669 on: August 01, 2016, 10:51:56 am »
+6

Villa + Poor House

Poor House requires three things to be great: +actions, +buy, and a way to get treasures out of your hand.  Villa provides all three (the latter only on-buy).  The synergy doesn't end there.  With a Poor House in hand, you're guaranteed to be able to buy a Villa and buy at least one more Poor House after playing the Villa.  Picture this: your hand is Poor House x2, Copper x3.  Normally, this hand is really bad, but with Villa in the kingdom, you can play Poor House + 3 Copper, buy a Villa, play the Villa, play a Poor House, and have an additional $5 and two buys.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #670 on: August 01, 2016, 01:23:51 pm »
0

With a Poor House in hand, you're guaranteed to be able to buy a Villa and buy at least one more Poor House after playing the Villa.

Guarantees are just asking for edge cases!

- Your hand is Poor House + 4 HoP.  No Villa for you!
- Your hand is Poor House + at least one Contraband.  Village or Poor House could be off the table.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #671 on: August 01, 2016, 01:40:42 pm »
+2

With a Poor House in hand, you're guaranteed to be able to buy a Villa and buy at least one more Poor House after playing the Villa.

Guarantees are just asking for edge cases!

- Your hand is Poor House + 4 HoP.  No Villa for you!
- Your hand is Poor House + at least one Contraband.  Village or Poor House could be off the table.

But are edge cases asking for guarantees?

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #672 on: August 02, 2016, 11:59:21 pm »
+1

Ambassador + Quest

Open Double Ambassador. Every time you get a collision, free gold! If there is a non-terminal +buy, even better! Just Province while getting even more Golds!

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160803/log.0.1470196641809.txt
« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 12:00:22 am by Seprix »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #673 on: August 03, 2016, 03:35:34 am »
0

> dmet   draws Procession, Procession, Copper, Copper, Copper

Ewww
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #674 on: August 03, 2016, 11:27:37 am »
+5

Walled Village and Reserve cards

Play Walled Village and a couple Duplicates or something. Keep your Walled Village for next turn.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #675 on: August 03, 2016, 07:15:29 pm »
+2

Rats + +X tokens

Well, this at least satisfies one of the thread's qualifiers.  There are a couple combos with a 3rd card/event/landmark that would probably be good in the (admittedly rare) case that you see them. 

1. Rats + Pathfinding + Fortress: Having a deck with 20 labs is great.  Having a deck with 20 labs and nothing else is not so great.  If you can have a fortress in hand whenever you play a rats, you can keep your other cards.

2. Rats + Training + Dominate: A deck consisting of at least 14 trained rats and nothing else can buy dominate every turn.  You'll have to trash the province, but still, 9 points a turn might be good enough.

3. Rats + Seaway + Ruins: Suppose your opponents has avoided rats (because there's no other trashing and they're terrible).  Suppose you've drawn your deck and for some reason have at least 2 seawayed rats in hand.  You can now autopile the rats and have at least 20 buys to buy out the curses and ruins and empty 3 piles in one turn.  Best of all, it only costs you 10 points plus however many more you had in your hand!

3. Rats + Seaway + Tomb: Seaway rats and get as many of them as possible.  Once you have <5 non-rats cards in your deck, buy enough coppers each turn so that you have 5 non-rats cards for next turn.  Trashing those 5 cards yields 5 points a turn, which is admittedly less than province a turn, but (like some golden decks) is fast enough that it can still be good.  On average, after n turns, you should have roughly 5n-28 points from tomb.  This gets you to the equivalent of 4 provinces in 11 turns.

I'm not sure if there's much else good you can do with a deck full of rats, but there's 20 of them and you can get them real quick, so it seems like anything good you can find to do would be pretty fast.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 11:26:11 am by tim17 »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #676 on: August 03, 2016, 07:20:18 pm »
0

3. Rats + Seaway + Tomb: Seaway rats and get as many of them as possible.  Every turn, buy n coppers/curses/ruins, where n is the number of rats you have, and then get n points when you trash them next turn.  Okay, maybe you don't get perfect shuffle luck, but you should still get close to n points a turn.

Every time you trash, your handsize reduces by one, so you can really only get ~5 points per turn without additional support.  Needs Rats + Fortress + Tomb to gain a point for each Rats.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #677 on: August 03, 2016, 07:27:19 pm »
+1

Talisman/Keep
Had a very fun game with these two today. It's nice because Talisman can pick up Silver and itself, and even Copper if your really need them. I our game, we actually picked up multiple Potions without wanting the Potion card. The game was also interesting because it had very little +Buy (not sure whether that helps Talisman or hurts it here). Very fun in any case.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 07:30:08 pm by Asper »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #678 on: August 03, 2016, 07:31:16 pm »
0

3. Rats + Seaway + Tomb: Seaway rats and get as many of them as possible.  Every turn, buy n coppers/curses/ruins, where n is the number of rats you have, and then get n points when you trash them next turn.  Okay, maybe you don't get perfect shuffle luck, but you should still get close to n points a turn.

Every time you trash, your handsize reduces by one, so you can really only get ~5 points per turn without additional support.  Needs Rats + Fortress + Tomb to gain a point for each Rats.

Oh, yeah that doesn't work the way I wanted it to.  I guess I didn't really think that one through.

edit: Upon further thought, even the 5 points a turn is still decent since it gets started so fast.  I'll elaborate in my above comment.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 11:21:26 am by tim17 »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #679 on: August 03, 2016, 07:56:11 pm »
+1

Walled Village and Reserve cards

Play Walled Village and a couple Duplicates or something. Keep your Walled Village for next turn.

Alternatively, Walled Village and Bonfire. Trash all of your other actions from play and put the Walled Villages back!

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #680 on: August 04, 2016, 10:00:27 am »
+3

Opponent's relying on ironmongers as villages? CR his entire deck for him so he's stuck villageless!

Who knew even CR's 'drawback' was an attack.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #681 on: August 04, 2016, 11:45:36 am »
0

Opponent's relying on ironmongers as villages? CR his entire deck for him so he's stuck villageless!

Who knew even CR's 'drawback' was an attack.
What's CR? Council Room?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #682 on: August 04, 2016, 11:47:47 am »
+5

Opponent's relying on ironmongers as villages? CR his entire deck for him so he's stuck villageless!

Who knew even CR's 'drawback' was an attack.
What's CR? Council Room?

No, it stands for Governor.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #683 on: August 07, 2016, 09:44:21 pm »
+1

Herald/Philosopher's Stone. In a slog deck with Herald in the Kingdom (rare, I know!) you can purchase Heralds to topdeck Pstone. You need +Buy to make it really good. I did it twice in this game.

https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160808/log.0.1470620568740.txt
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #684 on: August 07, 2016, 11:49:21 pm »
0

Someone just added Donate/Delve as a combo on the wiki.  I don't see how this is any more powerful than any other Donate strategy, and honestly think Donate/Market Square is a combo, if anything.  Thoughts?  Should I delete the article?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #685 on: August 08, 2016, 12:24:14 am »
0

Are they saying it is a combo because you could open with Silver/Silver/Donate on Turn 1 if you have at least 4?, or I guess you could even get a 3rd on Turn 2 and then Donate.

Seems like it could be good on the right board, but I would be on the side of not combo-y enough to be in a list of combos.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #686 on: August 08, 2016, 12:53:53 am »
0

I think if it ends up deleted then some of the other listed combos which are similar in nature should be evaluated too (Ironworks/Great Hall, Death Cart/Rats).

Some of the write-up should be transferred to the Donate page as a 'neat interaction with this card' - the pages for Rats and Ironworks already have passing mentions of the above - I don't know that being in the same expansion is good enough to warrant an article over similar 'neat interactions with th[ese] card[s ]' - if those belong then this one probably does as well.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #687 on: August 08, 2016, 02:28:24 pm »
+3

Quote
Are they saying it is a combo because you could open with Silver/Silver/Donate on Turn 1 if you have at least 4?, or I guess you could even get a 3rd on Turn 2 and then Donate.

Right.

T3: pay off $6 debt
T4: pay off $2 debt, buy two Silvers, making your deck SSSSS.
T5: Province, Silver
T6: Province, Silver
T7: Province, (maybe Silver) (or 3 Silvers if you happen to get unlucky and draw PPSSS from a deck of SSSSSSSPP)

Five Provinces by turn 9/10? That's pretty fast. Even with the engine-loving Donate on the board, that's tough to beat.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #688 on: August 09, 2016, 03:47:41 am »
+1

Someone just added Donate/Delve as a combo on the wiki.  I don't see how this is any more powerful than any other Donate strategy, and honestly think Donate/Market Square is a combo, if anything.  Thoughts?  Should I delete the article?

How about a Feodum/Donate opening? Lets you pay off Donate in Turn 3.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #689 on: August 10, 2016, 03:15:06 pm »
+5

Treasury/Dominate? The only way to buy that juicy 15VP is to rack up a lot of coin each turn, and yet you're not technically buying a Victory card, so you never have to discard your Treasuries.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #690 on: August 10, 2016, 03:43:06 pm »
0

Treasury/Dominate? The only way to buy that juicy 15VP is to rack up a lot of coin each turn, and yet you're not technically buying a Victory card, so you never have to discard your Treasuries.

Inherit Treasuries (using a cost reducer) in order to get 14 of  them on your deck every turn! 17 for a Militia proof solution.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #691 on: August 10, 2016, 04:27:34 pm »
0

Someone just added Donate/Delve as a combo on the wiki.  I don't see how this is any more powerful than any other Donate strategy, and honestly think Donate/Market Square is a combo, if anything.  Thoughts?  Should I delete the article?

How about a Feodum/Donate opening? Lets you pay off Donate in Turn 3.

Or how about a Feodum/Feodum opening and Donate on your next turn? You can pay off debt and have spending money left over.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2016, 04:28:37 pm by guidobass »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #692 on: August 10, 2016, 04:59:55 pm »
0

Someone just added Donate/Delve as a combo on the wiki.  I don't see how this is any more powerful than any other Donate strategy, and honestly think Donate/Market Square is a combo, if anything.  Thoughts?  Should I delete the article?

How about a Feodum/Donate opening? Lets you pay off Donate in Turn 3.

Or how about a Feodum/Feodum opening and Donate on your next turn? You can pay off debt and have spending money left over.

How do you open Feodum/Feodum, barring Baker or Borrow shenanigans?  Donating on turn 2 instead of turn 4 or 5 seems like a much better option.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #693 on: August 10, 2016, 10:22:16 pm »
0

Ooops! forgot 3/4 split.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #694 on: August 10, 2016, 10:41:36 pm »
+1

Feodum/Feodum sounds awful. 6 silver is too much unless an engine is impossible.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #695 on: August 12, 2016, 05:43:44 pm »
0

Borrow + Overlord

Not so much a combo as a tactic to watch out for, but if your goal is to get overlords as fast as possible early game, you'll often want to borrow with 1 debt in order to get another overlord instead of waiting for the next turn.  In particular, you'll be able to get two overlords before your first reshuffle if you borrow on your second turn.  Alms/Villa or a baker token can also give you two overlords before the first reshuffle.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #696 on: August 12, 2016, 05:57:53 pm »
+4

Borrow + Overlord

Not so much a combo as a tactic to watch out for, but if your goal is to get overlords as fast as possible early game, you'll often want to borrow with 1 debt in order to get another overlord instead of waiting for the next turn.  In particular, you'll be able to get two overlords before your first reshuffle if you borrow on your second turn. 

You can't buy events when you have Debt, which includes even a event like Borrow.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #697 on: August 13, 2016, 11:00:34 am »
+1

Borrow + Overlord

Not so much a combo as a tactic to watch out for, but if your goal is to get overlords as fast as possible early game, you'll often want to borrow with 1 debt in order to get another overlord instead of waiting for the next turn.  In particular, you'll be able to get two overlords before your first reshuffle if you borrow on your second turn. 

You can't buy events when you have Debt, which includes even a event like Borrow.

I'm apparently really bad at rules, I guess you could borrow T1 and have a 3/10 chance of getting an overlord T2.  I suppose it still works with baker though.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #698 on: August 16, 2016, 03:27:50 pm »
0

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but Ranger / Lost Arts.  The +5 makes it really easy to spike $6.  (Inherit the Rangers, fugetaboutit!)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #699 on: August 16, 2016, 03:34:43 pm »
+1

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but Ranger / Lost Arts.  The +5 makes it really easy to spike $6.  (Inherit the Rangers, fugetaboutit!)

Well, the Inherited ones are terminal. 
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #700 on: August 16, 2016, 09:51:47 pm »
+1

The trashing token prevents Teacher from placing one of its tokens on that pile (just had that happen to me).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #701 on: August 17, 2016, 05:03:40 pm »
+1

Ironworks/Distant Lands/Ferry

Rush strategy. Open Ironworks/Ferry on Distant Lands. I think you can see where to go from there.

My hack-job simulator bot gets to 3 Ironworks before it starts to Ironworks Distant Lands. Buys Ironworks on 4, Distant Lands on 3, Estate on 2, nothing on less. Empties Ironworks, Distant Lands, and Estate to end game while not paying any attention to whether or not Distant Lands are getting played. I only optimized the number of Ironworks in deck before gaining Distant Lands with them; this is very likely not the best way to play this strategy.
This bot beats the built in Rebuild bot which ignores Distant Lands 50% of the time (with some ties - so is better but unrealistic), the rush Ironworks/Gardens bot 67% of the time, and the slog Ironworks/Garden bot 49% of the time (with some ties - about even).

Some credit to Horist for getting me thinking about this with a message in Discord.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #702 on: August 21, 2016, 12:27:04 pm »
+2

Possess your opponent who has Champion in play, then buy Bonfire, trashing the Champion (it's set-aside, and the opponent now has to wait another shuffle to get it back into play).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #703 on: August 21, 2016, 12:42:22 pm »
+3

Possess your opponent who has Champion in play, then buy Bonfire, trashing the Champion (it's set-aside, and the opponent now has to wait another shuffle to get it back into play).

Champion is not tied to being in play and discarding it does nothing (besides adding the Champion back to their deck, so it will be drawn instead of a more useful card, once).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #704 on: August 21, 2016, 12:44:44 pm »
0

Drat. I was thinking about that for Hireling but forgot Champion doesn't have the "while this is in play clause". Will this work with anything else? Prince maybe?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #705 on: August 21, 2016, 12:46:08 pm »
0

That is, a Princed action, since Prince never is in play after the turn you play it.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #706 on: August 21, 2016, 12:55:28 pm »
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It would prevent the card being set aside by Prince, and thus stop it from working, yeah. The only other "while this is in play" Duration type card I can think of is Bridge Troll.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #707 on: August 21, 2016, 12:59:55 pm »
0

Bridge Troll wouldn't be useful because it would be discarded at the end of the Possessed turn anyways, unless you played it yourself in that turn. Discarding Archivist might be interesting since it works for up to 3 turns.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #708 on: August 21, 2016, 01:04:47 pm »
0

Bridge Troll wouldn't be useful because it would be discarded at the end of the Possessed turn anyways, unless you played it yourself in that turn. Discarding Archivist might be interesting since it works for up to 3 turns.

Archive's effect isn't "while this is in play" either, though. It'll keep working.

Bridge Troll would only be if you played it during their Possession turn, but maybe that'll happen sometime.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #709 on: August 21, 2016, 01:08:13 pm »
+1

Hmmph. Okay, same goes for Lighthouse attack protection if you play it while Possessing, but they'll still get the +$1 next turn
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #710 on: August 22, 2016, 09:59:21 am »
+6

Royal Carriage and Golem. 

Recently played a game with these two cards:  if your Golem hits a Royal Carriage, you can use that Royal Carriage you just played to play the Golem again (and if you hit more Royal Carriages, again and again).  The Royal Carriage also gives you +1 action, so if your Golem hits only terminals, you'll still have an action left to play another Golem, or just another terminal you've drawn.  You can also use the Royal Carriage not just on the Golem, but on one of the actions the Golem triggers, if you prefer.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #711 on: August 22, 2016, 02:53:19 pm »
0

The royal carriage doesn't give an action when you call it.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #712 on: August 22, 2016, 02:55:11 pm »
+2

More a question than an observation: Is Tactician / Mission a thing?  Play your Treasures on your normal turn, play Tactician on your Mission turn.  I've never actually seen it done, but seems like it could theoretically work out.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #713 on: August 22, 2016, 03:02:22 pm »
+5

More a question than an observation: Is Tactician / Mission a thing?  Play your Treasures on your normal turn, play Tactician on your Mission turn.  I've never actually seen it done, but seems like it could theoretically work out.

If you can set aside a Tactician with Gear or a Courtyard somehow, it could work.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #714 on: August 22, 2016, 03:42:50 pm »
+4

The royal carriage doesn't give an action when you call it.

It gives an action when it is played by Golem, and after both terminals resolve, you can call it on Golem itself for another try at fishing for +Action.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #715 on: August 22, 2016, 04:29:32 pm »
0

More a question than an observation: Is Tactician / Mission a thing?  Play your Treasures on your normal turn, play Tactician on your Mission turn.  I've never actually seen it done, but seems like it could theoretically work out.

If you can set aside a Tactician with Gear or a Courtyard somehow, it could work.

This is the important part.  If you can find your Tactician reliably on your Mission Turn without seeding it into your hand, then you probably don't need it that much.  If it is the only +Buy, it could still be worth doing though.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #716 on: August 22, 2016, 04:33:44 pm »
+3

More a question than an observation: Is Tactician / Mission a thing?  Play your Treasures on your normal turn, play Tactician on your Mission turn.  I've never actually seen it done, but seems like it could theoretically work out.

If you can set aside a Tactician with Gear or a Courtyard somehow, it could work.

This is the important part.  If you can find your Tactician reliably on your Mission Turn without seeding it into your hand, then you probably don't need it that much.  If it is the only +Buy, it could still be worth doing though.
Doing this spends a buy on Mission to get a buy from Tactician, so it doesn't actually increase your number of buys.
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Deadlock39

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #717 on: August 22, 2016, 04:45:01 pm »
0

More a question than an observation: Is Tactician / Mission a thing?  Play your Treasures on your normal turn, play Tactician on your Mission turn.  I've never actually seen it done, but seems like it could theoretically work out.

If you can set aside a Tactician with Gear or a Courtyard somehow, it could work.

This is the important part.  If you can find your Tactician reliably on your Mission Turn without seeding it into your hand, then you probably don't need it that much.  If it is the only +Buy, it could still be worth doing though.
Doing this spends a buy on Mission to get a buy from Tactician, so it doesn't actually increase your number of buys.

Yeah, so ignore that thing I suggested...

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #718 on: August 25, 2016, 11:44:29 am »
+3

Forge and Expedition

Expedition can help you to hit the tough $7 price point of Forge early on. It's also a cheap way to increase your handsize so your Forge can be more useful. Being able to quickly get rid of your Coppers and turn your starting Estates (and any Silvers you might have picked up) into power $5/$6 cards around turns 5-7 is huge. This interaction is strong enough that you should definitely keep an eye out for it.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #719 on: August 26, 2016, 02:20:43 pm »
0

One interaction I find particularly neat is fast trashing, followed by Treasure Map and Adventurer since it lets  some not so great cards have their moment to shine.   When the deck is slim, it's easy to hit Treasure Map.  Adventurer becomes useful when the only treasures in your deck are the Treasure Map's 4 Golds.  This only works in certain kingdoms, but in the right kingdom it can be fun to play.  An example game in the kingdom below is at http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160826/log.0.1472234968180.txt (against computer).



Code: [Select]
Chapel, Fishing Village, Caravan, Cutpurse, Throne Room, Treasure Map, Market, Outpost, Witch, Adventurer
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 03:29:30 pm by NolanA »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #720 on: August 26, 2016, 03:32:40 pm »
0

I really don't see TM or Adventurer here.  It must be noted that you played Lord Bottington, so naturally your strategy dominated his, but I think that after trashing you can build around FV, witch for draw, TR, Market and maybe 2 gold.  You should be able to draw your deck reliably, so no need for Adventurer, and instead of buying to TR and waiting for a reshuffle to get the TR's played, you can just get a couple of gold directly.  I haven't played it out, but I think it is faster.
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xyz123

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #721 on: August 26, 2016, 05:14:26 pm »
0

Nobles/Royal Carriage

Royal Carriage can smooth out annoying hands where Nobles is your only action. Play Nobles for actions, call RC and play Nobles for draw.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #722 on: August 26, 2016, 05:27:11 pm »
+5

Nobles/Royal Carriage

Royal Carriage can smooth out annoying hands where Nobles is your only action. Play Nobles for actions, call RC and play Nobles for draw.

Better yet, play it for draw first, see if you need the actions, and then call the RC for actions (or more draw).

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #723 on: August 26, 2016, 06:51:58 pm »
0

I really don't see TM or Adventurer here.  It must be noted that you played Lord Bottington, so naturally your strategy dominated his, but I think that after trashing you can build around FV, witch for draw, TR, Market and maybe 2 gold.  You should be able to draw your deck reliably, so no need for Adventurer, and instead of buying to TR and waiting for a reshuffle to get the TR's played, you can just get a couple of gold directly.  I haven't played it out, but I think it is faster.

Those are some good points.  Witch + Chapel + Fishing Village is one of the most powerful 3-card combinations possible in the Seaside expansion.  If one player is not doing the combo as effectively as the other, he is likely to lose.  This relates to the game result more than anything else about about what cards enhance this Witch + Chapel + Fishing Village combo.    That said, on turn 11, I had the following in my deck -- 3 witches, 3 fishing village, 1 market, 1 chapel, and 1 silver.  It took 9 additional turns to gain 7 provinces by going for Treasure Map + Adventurer, which certainly isn't bad, although there aren't many games where you need to be effective at getting 7 provinces.  If your engine slows by the time you have fewer provinces, you'll still likely win.  I ran some simulations to test out this case using Geronimoo's sim and got the following results:

Witch + Chapel + Fishing Village with Treaure Map vs Witch + Fishing Village + Chapel without Treasure Map --  With Treasure Map wins 55% to 41%

The simulated Treasure Map strategy was buy 2 Witches (before gold), then start buying Treasure Maps, regardless of whether the deck is trim or not.  Win rate can be improved further by adding a condition about not switching to a Treasure Map strategy when some combination of garbage remains in the deck. Playing around with some variables, that threshold seems to only going for Treasure Map when almost no garbage remains in the deck   If significant garbage remains, then it's better to buy golds and pursue a different strategy.   Adventurer had little effect on the overall win rate because the sim usually didn't buy it.   Without multiple buys, the sim would keep hitting 8+ and buy a province with nothing to do with the left over $, until provinces were low enough to buy dutchies.  This sim didn't consider Market and Throne Room, which will certainly have an influence and could shift the win rate away from Treasure Map or could allow the sim to buy Adventurer with the multiple buy, leading to more noteworthy effects.   Regardless of whether including Treasure Map is the optimal strategy in this kingdom, it does fairly well.  There are also other kingdoms where this type of strategy is more useful.   

I realize there are other far more powerful and far more useful card interactions.  I chose to list this one because I like how it finds a use for some lesser played cards, and I expect is uncommon to play.  I find this kind of unique, lesser played card strategy "neat", and it makes the game more enjoyable to me.  I'd expect the most useful Treasure Map enablers from this expansion are Warehouse, Haven, and Tactition; rather than Chapel.  However, they don't lend themselves to Adventurer.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 08:52:41 pm by NolanA »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #724 on: September 01, 2016, 12:58:46 pm »
0

I wanted to make a Dominion calendar for my Dad (who is also a Dominion fan) where for each day of the year there is one combo/Interaction. I will take some from here (of course crediting the author of said interaction), but I was wondering how to organize it, any ideas?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #725 on: September 01, 2016, 01:00:08 pm »
0

I wanted to make a Dominion calendar for my Dad (who is also a Dominion fan) where for each day of the year there is one combo/Interaction. I will take some from here (of course crediting the author of said interaction), but I was wondering how to organize it, any ideas?
Do you live in a place with four distinct seasons, like Michigan?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #726 on: September 01, 2016, 01:24:58 pm »
0

I wanted to make a Dominion calendar for my Dad (who is also a Dominion fan) where for each day of the year there is one combo/Interaction. I will take some from here (of course crediting the author of said interaction), but I was wondering how to organize it, any ideas?
Do you live in a place with four distinct seasons, like Michigan?

Yes, why?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #727 on: September 01, 2016, 01:56:38 pm »
0

I wanted to make a Dominion calendar for my Dad (who is also a Dominion fan) where for each day of the year there is one combo/Interaction. I will take some from here (of course crediting the author of said interaction), but I was wondering how to organize it, any ideas?
Do you live in a place with four distinct seasons, like Michigan?

Yes, why?

Roadrunner is thinking you can organize the combos into what would fit best in different seasons

For instance, Cartographer/Harvest would go in uh September.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #728 on: September 01, 2016, 02:40:09 pm »
+5

Quote
For instance, Cartographer/Harvest would go in uh September.

Actually, I think Cartographer/Harvest would go in Hellfreezovember. Or maybe Notgonnahappenuary.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #729 on: September 01, 2016, 03:47:31 pm »
+2

I'm not normally a big fan of Summon, but I just played a board with it, Armory, and Treasure Map.  That was fun.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #730 on: September 01, 2016, 05:18:30 pm »
+2

Quote
For instance, Cartographer/Harvest would go in uh September.

Actually, I think Cartographer/Harvest would go in Hellfreezovember. Or maybe Notgonnahappenuary.

How about Nombovember?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #731 on: September 01, 2016, 05:19:13 pm »
0

I wanted to make a Dominion calendar for my Dad (who is also a Dominion fan) where for each day of the year there is one combo/Interaction. I will take some from here (of course crediting the author of said interaction), but I was wondering how to organize it, any ideas?
Do you live in a place with four distinct seasons, like Michigan?

Yes, why?
Just wondering
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Donald X.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #732 on: September 01, 2016, 06:05:59 pm »
+6

I wanted to make a Dominion calendar for my Dad (who is also a Dominion fan) where for each day of the year there is one combo/Interaction. I will take some from here (of course crediting the author of said interaction), but I was wondering how to organize it, any ideas?
Well there's the main set, 10 expansions, and promos, that's 12 categories. Obv. a combo between two cards from different expansions gives you two choices. Promos isn't much; you could instead do Events/Landmarks for the last month.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #733 on: September 01, 2016, 06:41:03 pm »
0

Is Rebuild/Begger a thing?  In this game:
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160901/log.0.1472706113901.txt

I used Begger to grab Rebuilds and later Duchies.  Don't bother pointing out all the mistakes, I know that I sucked hard this game, and only won because my opponent sucked even harder.  (For instance, due to a misclick, I accidentally bought Alms with $5 in hand on turn 1. :'()

It seems to me that Begger was pretty reliable about hitting 5, which was the only price point that was really important, except perhaps 4 to grab the occasional Dungeon to help sifting and find the Rebuilds.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 12:48:21 pm by Jacob marley »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #734 on: September 01, 2016, 07:20:08 pm »
+2

I doubt it, you are not only trying to get to $5 often, but also try to play your Rebuilds as often as possible which is kind of hard with all those Coppers in your deck.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #735 on: September 02, 2016, 06:16:29 am »
0

Its ok, yah 3 copper sounds alot, but if your opponent also uses rebuild the game is so fast it dosnt matter, what matters is getting 5 NOW. So yah I like it!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #736 on: September 02, 2016, 06:28:23 am »
0

Nah, I don't think it's a thing. Beggar is a slog card, that doesn't work with Rebuild's tendency to rush games to an end. Hitting 5 consistently is not as important as, for example, in Duke games, and like Qvist said those Coppers will really get in your way.

Also, I'm pretty sure your log shows a different game.
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Jacob marley

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #737 on: September 02, 2016, 12:50:21 pm »
0

Your right, I corrected the link.  Mainly, I won by grabbing a lot of duchies to cut off his estate->Duchy rebuilds, and I don't think that I could have done so with out the beggar, but that may be situational and if I had not screwed up turn 1, unnecessary.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #738 on: September 07, 2016, 12:41:22 pm »
+2

Gear + Crossroads

Use gear to set aside crossroads/estates to kick off your next turn.  3 crossroads and 4 gears is enough to draw a deck of 21 cards.  Yeah, I know gear is great for starting village+draw engines in general, but crossroads is cheap and you usually start with 3 estates anyway.  With any way to play more of these (+actions, throning, etc), you should have no trouble drawing your deck even when it gets bigger.  If anything, this deck gets stronger when greening, so it can get a little ridiculous with something like groundskeeper (and +buy).  Mostly, it's a viable engine when there's no decent trashing and no great traditional village+draw.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #739 on: September 07, 2016, 03:09:40 pm »
+2

Quote
3 crossroads and 4 gears is enough to draw a deck of 21 cards.

I'm trying to work out the math on this one.

You start with a hand of Crossroads + 3 Estates + 5 other cards (8). Crossroads, draw three, + 3 actions (11). Assume you have another Crossroads, Draw three, 2 actions left (14). Gear, draw 2, stash 2. Gear, draw 2 stash 2 (18). You've now stashed Crossroads/3 Estates for your next turn so that your next turn can be identical, but you've only drawn a total of 18 cards. If you play that third Crossroads to draw to 21 cards, you've broken the chain.

That said, your starting 10 + 3 Crossroads and 4 Gears is 17 cards. You can buy just one treasure (even copper!) along the way, and you should be able to buy a Province a turn, which will never clog because Crossroads will replace any purchased Provinces with other cards.

The question is whether that's faster than Gear BM. Could make an interesting simulation. My guess is that you want a +buy somewhere, because spending three turns overpaying for Crossroads and probably overpaying once or twice for Gears seems like a waste. The +buy better be non-terminal or treasure, though!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #740 on: September 08, 2016, 11:39:32 am »
0

Quote
3 crossroads and 4 gears is enough to draw a deck of 21 cards.

I'm trying to work out the math on this one.

You start with a hand of Crossroads + 3 Estates + 5 other cards (8). Crossroads, draw three, + 3 actions (11). Assume you have another Crossroads, Draw three, 2 actions left (14). Gear, draw 2, stash 2. Gear, draw 2 stash 2 (18). You've now stashed Crossroads/3 Estates for your next turn so that your next turn can be identical, but you've only drawn a total of 18 cards. If you play that third Crossroads to draw to 21 cards, you've broken the chain.

That said, your starting 10 + 3 Crossroads and 4 Gears is 17 cards. You can buy just one treasure (even copper!) along the way, and you should be able to buy a Province a turn, which will never clog because Crossroads will replace any purchased Provinces with other cards.

The question is whether that's faster than Gear BM. Could make an interesting simulation. My guess is that you want a +buy somewhere, because spending three turns overpaying for Crossroads and probably overpaying once or twice for Gears seems like a waste. The +buy better be non-terminal or treasure, though!


I was also counting the two gears in play from the previous turn, and Crossroads + 3 Estates + 5 other cards = 9.  I feel like this probably doesn't beat Gear BM without nonterminal +Buy or anything else useful.  I'd be interested to see how they compare with say market square on the board.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #741 on: September 08, 2016, 02:01:25 pm »
0

Quote
3 crossroads and 4 gears is enough to draw a deck of 21 cards.

I'm trying to work out the math on this one.

You start with a hand of Crossroads + 3 Estates + 5 other cards (8). Crossroads, draw three, + 3 actions (11). Assume you have another Crossroads, Draw three, 2 actions left (14). Gear, draw 2, stash 2. Gear, draw 2 stash 2 (18). You've now stashed Crossroads/3 Estates for your next turn so that your next turn can be identical, but you've only drawn a total of 18 cards. If you play that third Crossroads to draw to 21 cards, you've broken the chain.

That said, your starting 10 + 3 Crossroads and 4 Gears is 17 cards. You can buy just one treasure (even copper!) along the way, and you should be able to buy a Province a turn, which will never clog because Crossroads will replace any purchased Provinces with other cards.

The question is whether that's faster than Gear BM. Could make an interesting simulation. My guess is that you want a +buy somewhere, because spending three turns overpaying for Crossroads and probably overpaying once or twice for Gears seems like a waste. The +buy better be non-terminal or treasure, though!


I was also counting the two gears in play from the previous turn, and Crossroads + 3 Estates + 5 other cards = 9.  I feel like this probably doesn't beat Gear BM without nonterminal +Buy or anything else useful.  I'd be interested to see how they compare with say market square on the board.
It's a good way to kick of reliably but gear kind of does that anyway.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #742 on: September 08, 2016, 02:06:27 pm »
0

Quote
3 crossroads and 4 gears is enough to draw a deck of 21 cards.

I'm trying to work out the math on this one.

You start with a hand of Crossroads + 3 Estates + 5 other cards (8). Crossroads, draw three, + 3 actions (11). Assume you have another Crossroads, Draw three, 2 actions left (14). Gear, draw 2, stash 2. Gear, draw 2 stash 2 (18). You've now stashed Crossroads/3 Estates for your next turn so that your next turn can be identical, but you've only drawn a total of 18 cards. If you play that third Crossroads to draw to 21 cards, you've broken the chain.

That said, your starting 10 + 3 Crossroads and 4 Gears is 17 cards. You can buy just one treasure (even copper!) along the way, and you should be able to buy a Province a turn, which will never clog because Crossroads will replace any purchased Provinces with other cards.

The question is whether that's faster than Gear BM. Could make an interesting simulation. My guess is that you want a +buy somewhere, because spending three turns overpaying for Crossroads and probably overpaying once or twice for Gears seems like a waste. The +buy better be non-terminal or treasure, though!


I was also counting the two gears in play from the previous turn, and Crossroads + 3 Estates + 5 other cards = 9.  I feel like this probably doesn't beat Gear BM without nonterminal +Buy or anything else useful.  I'd be interested to see how they compare with say market square on the board.
It's a good way to kick of reliably but gear kind of does that anyway.
Right, I probably wouldn't play this with a real engine on the board.  (unless there's also groundskeeper or something)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #743 on: September 08, 2016, 10:17:36 pm »
+1

Had a really sloggy game with Trader and Soothsayer. Opened Sooth / nothing, got a Trader and a Sooth Gold / Silver on the second shuffle, Tradered the Gold into six Silvers, started greening pretty soon after that. Gold gainers are nice for Trader if you're silver flooding.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #744 on: September 09, 2016, 10:42:43 pm »
+1

Lost Arts + Cultist.

If there aren't any villages around, chaining Cultists will give you extra actions to spare to play other terminals, since playing subsequent Cultists from you hand doesn't spend an Action, but you will gain the token's bonus anyways.

e.g. Play a Cultist, +1 Action, play another Cultist from you hand, +1 Action, then you'll have 2 Actions remaining.

EDIT: OK, this has been brought up before, but it's worth mentioning again.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 10:45:07 pm by mameluke »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #745 on: September 11, 2016, 10:25:51 am »
+5

Raze/Tunnel

A neat little trick.
Step 1: Get Gold, Raze, a bunch of Tunnels.
Step 2: Raze Gold, revealing and discarding a bunch of Tunnels.
Step 3: Repeat.

Usefulness is rather low probably, but it's a nice effect.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #746 on: September 12, 2016, 02:36:28 pm »
+1

This probably only barely qualifies, but I didn't want to start a new thread just for this...

Overlord as Band of Misfits as Conspirator = Conspirator is the third action you've played this turn.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2016, 11:23:53 am by GendoIkari »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #747 on: September 13, 2016, 07:45:25 am »
+2

Hunting Grounds/Groundskeeper

Trash Hunting Grounds with a bunch of Groundskeepers in play for 3 Estates and you'll get tons of points. I managed to outscore Dominate with this so it seems like it can be really strong.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #748 on: September 13, 2016, 07:53:42 am »
+1

Hunting Grounds/Groundskeeper

Trash Hunting Grounds with a bunch of Groundskeepers in play for 3 Estates and you'll get tons of points. I managed to outscore Dominate with this so it seems like it can be really strong.

Add Stonemason for extra fun! Use $7 buys to empty the Groundskeeper pile, then get all your Groundskeeper in play and trash Hunting Grounds for 3 Estates and 2 Duchy!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #749 on: September 13, 2016, 08:36:11 am »
0

Hunting Grounds/Groundskeeper

Trash Hunting Grounds with a bunch of Groundskeepers in play for 3 Estates and you'll get tons of points. I managed to outscore Dominate with this so it seems like it can be really strong.

Add Stonemason for extra fun! Use $7 buys to empty the Groundskeeper pile, then get all your Groundskeeper in play and trash Hunting Grounds for 3 Estates and 2 Duchy!
The game I played had Altar which was nice with this too.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #750 on: September 13, 2016, 10:01:38 am »
0

I'm a big fan of Pathfinding + Festival.

This turns all your Festivals into "Grand Market Villages" that only cost 5 with no copper restriction!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #751 on: September 13, 2016, 10:32:00 am »
0

I'm a big fan of Pathfinding + Festival.

This turns all your Festivals into "Grand Market Villages" that only cost 5 with no copper restriction!

Yeah, that is pretty good. Imagine Pathfinding on actual GM, though!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #752 on: September 13, 2016, 10:45:02 am »
+2

I've always thought that Pathfinding and Lost Arts work even better on cheaper cards (provided you have +Buy), like Pathfind a Forager to a Grand Market Junk Dealer, or Lost Arts a Moat to a Lab.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #753 on: September 13, 2016, 10:53:55 am »
0

I've always thought that Pathfinding and Lost Arts work even better on cheaper cards (provided you have +Buy), like Pathfind a Forager to a Grand Market Junk Dealer, or Lost Arts a Moat to a Lab.

Pathfinding rocks on cheap cantrips. Vagrant + Pathfinding is absolutely insane, for example. Hamlet + Pathfinding is even better. $2 Labs with an extra bonus are amazing (Lost Arts on Moat is, indeed, similar).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #754 on: September 13, 2016, 10:54:37 am »
0

I've always thought that Pathfinding and Lost Arts work even better on cheaper cards

Yeah, loading up on cheap cards is awesome, and it's definitely easier to get a bunch of them. One downside to this though is that it's also easier for your opponent to get them. If my opponent uses Pathfinding on Scheme, I might buy an extra one or two just to spite him.

Let's say Festivals are split 2-2, and I Pathfind them before my opponent can. I'm going to have a huge advantage in picking up the rest of the Festivals. He can still take a few away from me, but I'm going to be buying 2-3 at a time pretty soon. It's a bit similar (though not a perfect analogy) to how getting that first Grand Market makes buying the second one so much easier.

Edit: Okay, Scheme might not have been the best example here -- that would be amazing. A self-activating Alchemist for $3.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 10:56:22 am by allanfieldhouse »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #755 on: September 13, 2016, 10:54:47 am »
0

Lost arts + Smithy is probably the greatest 4 cost thing. (For $10, you get awesome value for money.)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #756 on: September 13, 2016, 10:58:12 am »
+1

Wandering Minstrel/Herald.

You play the Minstrel, put actions on top, and get to draw and play them with Herald. Pretty straightforward, but also quite good.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #757 on: September 13, 2016, 11:00:37 am »
+1

Herald/Mystic

When you reveal the top card with Herald, if you don't play it, at least you will get to draw it with Mystic. Also, the combo gives you coins and draw, as well as village qualities. You can also set up a better version by topdecking a bunch of Mystics and Herald when you overpay for Herald.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #758 on: September 13, 2016, 11:06:10 am »
0

I've always thought that Pathfinding and Lost Arts work even better on cheaper cards (provided you have +Buy), like Pathfind a Forager to a Grand Market Junk Dealer, or Lost Arts a Moat to a Lab.

Generally yes. In Festival's case, it gives you the economy and draw to afford more Festivals more quickly.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #759 on: September 13, 2016, 03:01:39 pm »
0

Magpie and any card that allows you to discard or top deck from your hand.

If you have a Magpie in your hand and at least 2 (and nothing else) in your deck/discard pile, you can repeatedly play Magpies until you have emptied the pile. Might be useful if you are looking for a third pile and don't otherwise have enough buys or gains.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #760 on: September 13, 2016, 05:23:34 pm »
+6

Magpie and any card that allows you to discard or top deck from your hand.

Related: Watchtower can let you gain all the Magpie's without drawing your deck under the right circumstances. 2 Magpies in hand + Watchtower in hand. Play Magpie, revealing any Action/Victory card. Use Watchtower to place the gained Magpie on top of your deck; play another Magpie from your hand, drawing Magpie, revealing the same Action/Victory card to gain a Magpie, etc. You don't draw the first Action/Victory card you revealed until you drain the Magpie pile (thanks Chris!).
« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 01:31:39 pm by JW »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #761 on: September 13, 2016, 06:01:28 pm »
+4

The Watchtower trick works when you reveal any Action or Victory card. You never actually draw the revealed card until you drain the pile.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #762 on: September 14, 2016, 10:25:55 am »
+8

Pathfinding rocks

I'm not convinced this is all that good.  Usually you can't play more than 5 rocks a turn, and drawing cards in your buy phase is not nearly as good as drawing cards in your action phase.  Even with something like villa, this really only makes rocks a peddler variant.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #763 on: September 14, 2016, 10:33:26 am »
+3

Pathfinding rocks

I'm not convinced this is all that good.  Usually you can't play more than 5 rocks a turn, and drawing cards in your buy phase is not nearly as good as drawing cards in your action phase.  Even with something like villa, this really only makes rocks a peddler variant.

You're trying too hard to be Awaclus.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #764 on: September 14, 2016, 01:11:31 pm »
0

Magpie and any card that allows you to discard or top deck from your hand.

Related: Watchtower can let you gain all the Magpie's without drawing your deck under the right circumstances. 2 Magpies in hand + Watchtower in hand. Play Magpie, revealing any Action/Victory card. Use Watchtower to place the gained Magpie on top of your deck; play another Magpie from your hand, drawing Magpie, revealing Magpie to gain a Magpie, etc. You don't draw the first Action/Victory card you revealed until you drain the Magpie pile (thanks Chris!).

True and probably a lot more common and easier to set up than my scenario, which I actually did in a game. I didn't spot it until I was looking to see if there was an additional pile I could clear and it dawned on me that I could discard a couple of Magpies. Gainers would also set it up if you have drawn your whole deck.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #765 on: September 14, 2016, 05:29:39 pm »
0

Apprentice/Peddler

+8 cards +1 action is a recipe for success. All it takes is some cheap cantrips. I just played with Pawn, which was great.

Maybe this has been mentioned before. This thread should have some way to see all the interactions.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #766 on: September 14, 2016, 05:52:18 pm »
0

Apprentice/Peddler

+8 cards +1 action is a recipe for success. All it takes is some cheap cantrips. I just played with Pawn, which was great.

Maybe this has been mentioned before. This thread should have some way to see all the interactions.

Yes, that is a good interaction. Also, Salvager/Peddler, and any card that uses the high cost of Peddler for benefit.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #767 on: September 15, 2016, 03:17:55 am »
0

Apprentice/Peddler

+8 cards +1 action is a recipe for success. All it takes is some cheap cantrips. I just played with Pawn, which was great.

Maybe this has been mentioned before. This thread should have some way to see all the interactions.

Yes, that is a good interaction. Also, Salvager/Peddler, and any card that uses the high cost of Peddler for benefit.

Basically, any trash-for-benefit. Forge Peddler into Province, Upgrade/Remake it into Platinum (if possible), Bishop it for 5 VP. The only exception might be Trader - you probably don't want 8 Silvers if you're playing a deck with lots of Peddlers (likely an engine).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #768 on: September 15, 2016, 04:35:35 am »
+1

The only exception might be Trader - you probably don't want 8 Silvers if you're playing a deck with lots of Peddlers (likely an engine).

That depends — if your engine can't do better than 1 Province/turn, it would be better to have a deck so full of Silvers you're essentially guaranteed 1 Province/turn anyway.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #769 on: September 15, 2016, 11:22:22 am »
+1

Crossroads & Advisor
If you have enough Crossroads you'll gladly discard the Gold and take two green cards.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #770 on: September 21, 2016, 11:00:36 am »
0

Catapult + Talisman

2-for-1 Catapults, followed by 2-for-1 Rocks, then chuck the Talisman.

Patrician/Emporium or Settlers/Bustling Village,  +1 Card token from Teacher/Pathfinding

The token applies to both cards from the pile, but these are some of the only times that's actually useful. Maybe +buy on Gladiator/Fortune. Maybe.

Oh, crap. Wait a minute. Is there Eratta for that issue? I'm going to need to check under the rules section about Encampment/Plunder...
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #771 on: September 21, 2016, 04:04:39 pm »
0

What issue? There's nothing a token can give an Action that a Treasure doesn't work with if received. I guess +Action isn't usually helpful though lol.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #772 on: September 21, 2016, 06:01:25 pm »
+1

+1 anything on a treasure would work if you had blackmarket or storyteller in your deck
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #773 on: September 21, 2016, 06:04:55 pm »
0

Oh, crap. Wait a minute. Is there Eratta for that issue? I'm going to need to check under the rules section about Encampment/Plunder...

You put your +1 Action token on Encampment and play Plunder later. Plunder now gives +1 Action - it is "a card from that pile". And yes, Plunder may also give +1 Card or +$1 or +1 Buy - why wouldn't it? Also, having Actions left in your buy phase isn't something new - you can have that by simply not playing that action in your hand. Also see Diadem.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #774 on: September 21, 2016, 07:12:14 pm »
0

Remember that you can go back to your Action phase so getting Actions during your Buy phase is still useful.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #775 on: September 22, 2016, 12:10:15 am »
0

Also, Diadem.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #776 on: September 24, 2016, 12:17:50 pm »
+1

Expedition / Mission

Basically on any board with pretty good draw but more than 5 stop cards, if you have $4 and a buy it is always the right move to buy Mission every turn and then spend all your Mission turn money on Expeditions.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #777 on: September 29, 2016, 11:48:38 am »
0

Mission + Alms / Seaway / Ball

Obvious, but if these events are on the table you can gain stuff in your Mission turn. Seaway and Ball in particular can be bought multiple times in a mission turn, which more than makes up for the opportunity cost of buying Mission even if you don't accomplish much else that extra turn.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #778 on: October 04, 2016, 05:15:34 pm »
0

Wine Merchant - Wine Merchant

When you only play 1 Wine Merchant but don't spend $2 of the $4, it's like a terminal Silver with a +buy.  If you play 2 WMs and don't spend $2, it's like they were both terminal Golds.  The more WMs in play, the better because the more near they are to being the $4.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #779 on: October 04, 2016, 05:28:40 pm »
+2

Quest- tunnel
As far as tunnel enablers this one is pretty good
It gets better with terminal draw so you can gain golds off both quest and tunnel.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #780 on: October 04, 2016, 05:30:03 pm »
+1

Wine Merchant - Wine Merchant

When you only play 1 Wine Merchant but don't spend $2 of the $4, it's like a terminal Silver with a +buy.  If you play 2 WMs and don't spend $2, it's like they were both terminal Golds.  The more WMs in play, the better because the more near they are to being the $4.
In bm this is decent because you can get them off your mat once per shuffle and have a bunch of 5 dollar terminal 4 coin
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #781 on: October 04, 2016, 05:34:03 pm »
0

Wine Merchant - Wine Merchant

When you only play 1 Wine Merchant but don't spend $2 of the $4, it's like a terminal Silver with a +buy.  If you play 2 WMs and don't spend $2, it's like they were both terminal Golds.  The more WMs in play, the better because the more near they are to being the $4.

I kind of thought this was the point of the card? It's purpose built to be engine payload, or at least, you use them all and then dispense them at once in slogs or something.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #782 on: October 04, 2016, 05:40:38 pm »
+2

Raze-Tunnel

You start off by trashing down, then get a few tunnels. Trash a gold with a raze, flip 3 or 4 tunnels, and profit.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #783 on: October 05, 2016, 12:55:19 pm »
+3

My new favorite no-cost-reduction Inheritance target: Encampment. It's drool-worthy.

Depending on your priorities and your opponents, you can use the Estate-Encampments at the beginning of your turn in case you have to put them back into the Estate pile and rebuy them.

Forget Estate-Ironmongers and Estate-Magpies. It's hard to beat +2 Cards, +2 Actions. Encampment would be an overpowered card if there were more than 5 of them. 13(17) of them is a LOT.

I managed to do this in a game with good trashing, +buy and Windfall. Yeah, I know. I also snagged the reset of the real encampments first before my opponents could inherit one, which doesn't take long since there are only 5 and Inheritance removes one. This was in a kingdom with no other draw. And a bunch of terminals and no other Villages. Ouch. One Windfall is plenty: Every subsequent turn was draw deck, Militia attack, Workshop an Estate-Encampment, Golds and two Plunders for points/coin, buy two Provinces and an Estate-encampment, repeat. It never stalled, even after buying 10 Provinces.

« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 12:57:01 pm by JThorne »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #784 on: October 05, 2016, 01:43:40 pm »
0

You can't re-buy Encampments or inherited Estates the same turn you have to set them aside. Inheriting Encampment gives you a whole Estate pile to work with though.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #785 on: October 05, 2016, 08:02:28 pm »
0

I love peddler with training.
Cantrip for 0, worth a silver.
You just only need +buy then ;)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #786 on: October 06, 2016, 09:08:39 am »
0

Quote
You can't re-buy Encampments or inherited Estates the same turn you have to set them aside.

True. Good clarification. I didn't re-buy them the same turn, but that's exactly the kind of thing I make sure to point out in games. Lots of IRL players do things like lay their victory cards on the table, discard them before buying, shuffle their discards when it's not their turn, discard durations on the second turn, and a host of other things that seem like they don't matter, but do. Putting back Encampments immediately on-play is definitely in that category.

Speaking of which, handy hint: I always turn cards on their way back to the supply upside-down to call extra attention to them when cleaning up.

Quote
Inheriting Encampment gives you a whole Estate pile to work with though.

That was enough in that game, though usually in an Inheritance game with +buy I'm guessing that the Estate pile drains in no time.

Also in the kingdom was Silk Road and Castles. Interesting, but nothing worth skipping buying more Estates for. I double-checked, and they would have been worth 5 points each for me at the end of the game. In hindsight, if it had been a closer game, I might have gone for the Silk Road 3-pile (Encampment-Plunder/Estate/Silk Road) instead of emptying Provinces.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #787 on: October 06, 2016, 09:30:01 am »
0

I don't think Silk Road is ever skippable in an Inheritance game, especially if you can inherit something like Candlestick Maker or Market Square. Each Silk Road should be worth at least four points, which is quite valuable for $4, and can probably be rushed if you have a third pile to drain.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #788 on: October 06, 2016, 01:26:33 pm »
+2

Plan + Market Square

On weak BM boards this can be a strategy in and of itself. Just open Plan / MS and trash Estates and Coppers, gaining roughly one Gold at a time this way. Sometimes you'll get two! You should then be ready to green. Obviously this isn't that strong but it can work out OK if you're otherwise bored.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #789 on: October 06, 2016, 06:04:23 pm »
0

Plan + Market Square

On weak BM boards this can be a strategy in and of itself. Just open Plan / MS and trash Estates and Coppers, gaining roughly one Gold at a time this way. Sometimes you'll get two! You should then be ready to green. Obviously this isn't that strong but it can work out OK if you're otherwise bored.

That puts the "potentially" into "potentially useful" for sure.

Secret Passage + Herald/Wishing Well/Mystic/Vassal/Masquerade/Patrol/Scrying Pool

Put a Copper in your next hand for Mask protection, or an Action card for Herald/Vassal/Wishing Well/Mystic. Tuck away a Curse/Victory for Patrol pick up on dispatch.

Harbinger + Prizes/Fortune

Never stop playing Steed, Followers or Princess. Or maybe a Fortune instead.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2016, 06:06:15 pm by Seprix »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #790 on: October 07, 2016, 11:00:27 am »
0

Plan + Market Square

On weak BM boards this can be a strategy in and of itself. Just open Plan / MS and trash Estates and Coppers, gaining roughly one Gold at a time this way. Sometimes you'll get two! You should then be ready to green. Obviously this isn't that strong but it can work out OK if you're otherwise bored.

That puts the "potentially" into "potentially useful" for sure.

Secret Passage + Herald/Wishing Well/Mystic/Vassal/Masquerade/Patrol/Scrying Pool

Put a Copper in your next hand for Mask protection, or an Action card for Herald/Vassal/Wishing Well/Mystic. Tuck away a Curse/Victory for Patrol pick up on dispatch.

Harbinger + Prizes/Fortune

Never stop playing Steed, Followers or Princess. Or maybe a Fortune instead.

Secret Passage also works with Vagrant, Cartographer, Sentry, Lookout, Doctor...
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #791 on: October 07, 2016, 01:10:51 pm »
0

Plan + Market Square

On weak BM boards this can be a strategy in and of itself. Just open Plan / MS and trash Estates and Coppers, gaining roughly one Gold at a time this way. Sometimes you'll get two! You should then be ready to green. Obviously this isn't that strong but it can work out OK if you're otherwise bored.

That puts the "potentially" into "potentially useful" for sure.

Well, there is a grain of usefulness there: Market Square basically "combos" with any self-trasher (as opposed to what beginners might assume was primarily a "reaction" to a trashing attack.) The only trouble with using Market Square with most trashers is getting them to match up in the same hand, whereas Plan doesn't have that problem, because you can always buy Plan when Market square is in your hand.

To a certain degree, a great many of the suggestions in this thread really represent basic synergies, and almost all of them have multiple possible replacements for one or more of the cards.

In a way, this observation simply belongs in the Market Square wiki article: It's a card that like self-trashers, some self-trashers are events such as Plan and Trade, eliminating the need for matching. If you're using it with a trashing action, refer to the article on...um...matchers? Is Dominion missing a term?

Is there a list of cards/strategies somewhere that can effectively get cards to meet up in the same hand without shuffle luck? I'm thinking this needs a separate thread. I'll go make one now.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #792 on: October 17, 2016, 02:23:29 am »
+1

Save / Moat

If you can afford it, put a Moat on top of your deck every turn, to never get affected by an attack.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #793 on: October 17, 2016, 03:43:12 pm »
0

Save / Moat

If you can afford it, put a Moat on top of your deck every turn, to never get affected by an attack.

And play with a 4-card hand for the rest of the game.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #794 on: October 17, 2016, 03:44:52 pm »
0

Save / Moat

If you can afford it, put a Moat on top of your deck every turn, to never get affected by an attack.

And play with a 4-card hand for the rest of the game.

Just get a bunch of Moats, so you can increase your handsize.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #795 on: October 17, 2016, 03:47:48 pm »
+4

Save / Moat

If you can afford it, put a Moat on top of your deck every turn, to never get affected by an attack.

And play with a 4-card hand for the rest of the game.

Save adds to your normal hand, you'll have a 5 card hand + Moat. It's just the opportunity cost of whatever other thing you might have Saved / bought.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 04:38:03 pm by Mic Qsenoch »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #796 on: October 17, 2016, 04:39:46 pm »
0

Save / Moat

If you can afford it, put a Moat on top of your deck every turn, to never get affected by an attack.

And play with a 4-card hand for the rest of the game.

Save adds to your normal hand, you'll have a 5 card hand + Moat. It's just the opportunity cost of whatever other thing you might have Saved / bought.

Right, right, forgot that. Was thinking topdecking for some reason.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #797 on: October 17, 2016, 05:21:19 pm »
+2

Save / Moat

If you can afford it, put a Moat on top of your deck every turn, to never get affected by an attack.

And play with a 4-card hand for the rest of the game.

Save adds to your normal hand, you'll have a 5 card hand + Moat. It's just the opportunity cost of whatever other thing you might have Saved / bought.

Right, right, forgot that. Was thinking topdecking for some reason.

Save/Borrow lets you "topdeck" a card per turn for free.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #798 on: October 19, 2016, 08:00:22 am »
0

Save / Moat

If you can afford it, put a Moat on top of your deck every turn, to never get affected by an attack.

And play with a 4-card hand for the rest of the game.

Hey, you want to be attack-proof or not?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #799 on: October 22, 2016, 10:24:32 am »
+2

Diplomat / Courtier

Play Courtier, reveal Diplomat, and take +1 Action and Gold/+$3/+Buy. Then a play Diplomat, and it becomes a Lost City. You can build (lame) engines using this combination.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #800 on: October 22, 2016, 10:39:12 am »
0

Quote
Diplomat / Courtier

Cute. I keep wanting Diplomat to be good, and it keeps not being. I watched several players buy one in a kingdom with no attacks and not a single handsize-reducing action because it was the only card that had +2 Actions printed on it. Oops. Nice $4 Moats there, guys.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #801 on: October 22, 2016, 06:48:16 pm »
+2

Lurker + Bishop

Infinite Golden Deck on its own. It's not that strong, but if the board has any sufficiently expensive actions, especially relatively weaker ones that don't enable stronger strategies, it can easily be set up to generate 4 or 5 VP a turn. And it also seems like a pretty strong engine payload, since for example gaining and trashing 2 Princes a turn for 10 VP tokens with it seems pretty easy.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 06:50:14 pm by wachsmuth »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #802 on: October 23, 2016, 04:55:57 pm »
0

Quote
Diplomat / Courtier

Cute. I keep wanting Diplomat to be good, and it keeps not being. I watched several players buy one in a kingdom with no attacks and not a single handsize-reducing action because it was the only card that had +2 Actions printed on it. Oops. Nice $4 Moats there, guys.
Diplomat is really good with attacks. It's courtier that's week
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #803 on: October 24, 2016, 07:52:50 am »
0

Mystic/Pearl Diver

Not too strong, but a neat card interaction nonetheless.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #804 on: October 24, 2016, 09:15:42 pm »
0

Quote
Diplomat / Courtier

Cute. I keep wanting Diplomat to be good, and it keeps not being. I watched several players buy one in a kingdom with no attacks and not a single handsize-reducing action because it was the only card that had +2 Actions printed on it. Oops. Nice $4 Moats there, guys.

Is that Diplomat's fault for being the way it is, or the player's fault for not utilizing it when it is good and not using it when it is not? With the general exception of Scout, every card has some use somewhere.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #805 on: October 24, 2016, 09:17:05 pm »
0

Quote
Diplomat / Courtier

Cute. I keep wanting Diplomat to be good, and it keeps not being. I watched several players buy one in a kingdom with no attacks and not a single handsize-reducing action because it was the only card that had +2 Actions printed on it. Oops. Nice $4 Moats there, guys.
Diplomat is really good with attacks. It's courtier that's week

I am starting to disagree on your viewing of Courtier. I think it is a stronger card than you are giving it credit for. It's going up on my list. It is no world beater, but it's way better than Explorer for starters.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #806 on: October 24, 2016, 09:51:54 pm »
+1

Quote
Diplomat / Courtier

Cute. I keep wanting Diplomat to be good, and it keeps not being. I watched several players buy one in a kingdom with no attacks and not a single handsize-reducing action because it was the only card that had +2 Actions printed on it. Oops. Nice $4 Moats there, guys.
Diplomat is really good with attacks. It's courtier that's week

I am starting to disagree on your viewing of Courtier. I think it is a stronger card than you are giving it credit for. It's going up on my list. It is no world beater, but it's way better than Explorer for starters.

There's plenty of boards where you'd pay $5 for $3 / +Buy which you can make nonterminal in a pinch. It's just fine really. Does whatever you need it to do. It's a bit pricey but whatever, you needed the +Buy.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #807 on: October 24, 2016, 10:28:10 pm »
0

So far, I've made Diplomat work on a lot of occasions. Not every board, bit enough. Courtier is also better than I initially thought.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #808 on: October 25, 2016, 04:06:17 pm »
+14

If you Alms a Villa with a $4 hand, you will be able to open with a $5 cost.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #809 on: October 28, 2016, 03:33:23 am »
0

Conspirator/Villa
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 02:28:18 pm by kru5h »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #810 on: October 28, 2016, 12:55:14 pm »
0

Journeyman/Trade

I have a low opinion of Trade, but turning Coppers and estates into Silvers really helps Journeyman. My opponent went for Sea Hag, but I still won.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 04:44:10 pm by McGarnacle »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #811 on: October 28, 2016, 01:37:16 pm »
0

Journeyman/Save

I have a low opinion of Save, but turning Coppers and estates into Silvers really helps Journeyman. My opponent went for Sea Hag, but I still won.

Huh? Are you referring to "Trade" rather than "Save"?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #812 on: October 28, 2016, 04:44:22 pm »
0

Journeyman/Save

I have a low opinion of Save, but turning Coppers and estates into Silvers really helps Journeyman. My opponent went for Sea Hag, but I still won.

Huh? Are you referring to "Trade" rather than "Save"?

Whoops! Yes, thanks.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #813 on: October 30, 2016, 12:04:18 am »
0

In terms of bm enablers trade is really really good. It works really well with terminal draw.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #814 on: October 30, 2016, 08:52:43 am »
+1

Save / Moat

If you can afford it, put a Moat on top of your deck every turn, to never get affected by an attack.

And play with a 4-card hand for the rest of the game.

Hey, you want to be attack-proof or not?

It's not a 4-card hand after the first Save. Moat becomes a 6th card in hand. It's similar to how Haven works.

You would have -1 to spend every turn though.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #815 on: October 30, 2016, 01:57:36 pm »
0

Diplomat / Courtier

Play Courtier, reveal Diplomat, and take +1 Action and Gold/+$3/+Buy. Then a play Diplomat, and it becomes a Lost City. You can build (lame) engines using this combination.

In the same vein, Diplomat+Mill, Diplomat+Minion, Courtier+Minion and Mill+Shanty Town. You start to wonder if maybe Intrigue intentionally got a (pseudo-) draw-to-X subtheme...
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #816 on: October 30, 2016, 07:40:33 pm »
+1

I have a low opinion of Trade
You really shouldn't. Trade is pretty good pretty often.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #817 on: October 30, 2016, 07:54:22 pm »
0

I have a low opinion of Trade
You really shouldn't. Trade is pretty good pretty often.

That's how slavery started.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #818 on: October 30, 2016, 09:17:01 pm »
0

I have a low opinion of Trade
You really shouldn't. Trade is pretty good pretty often.

That's how slavery started.
i think you're missing a few steps
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #819 on: October 31, 2016, 04:14:30 am »
+1

On the subject of slavery: I don't think those Pawns and Minions are all getting paid for their work.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #820 on: October 31, 2016, 10:40:37 am »
0

Shouldn't even gen be slightly surprising, but with modest Village support, Courtyard and Chariot Race basically guarantee VP and Coin when played together.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #821 on: October 31, 2016, 12:00:11 pm »
0

Shouldn't even gen be slightly surprising, but with modest Village support, Courtyard and Chariot Race basically guarantee VP and Coin when played together.

Similarly, artisan/chariot race.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #822 on: October 31, 2016, 12:03:19 pm »
0

Just played one the other night with my wife that had Artificer, Storyteller, and Menagerie.  Made more some super fast cycling/gaining with the neat thing being that this is still supported both in the absence of a village and any sort of trashing.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #823 on: October 31, 2016, 12:47:41 pm »
0

Quote
with modest Village support, Courtyard and Chariot Race basically guarantee VP and Coin when played together.

Found another use for Chariot Race: Seriously punishing your opponent(s) if you win the Peddler split in a game with heavy trashing. You win a lot of races with a preponderance of $8 cards. (Beating King's Court in a Chariot Race is particularly satisfying.)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #824 on: November 08, 2016, 01:00:12 am »
+4

Develop / Baron

Develop a $3 to topdeck a Baron and an Estate.

EDIT: Oh and btw, Baron & Estate kind of have a neat interaction too. :P
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 01:02:27 am by Dingan »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #825 on: November 22, 2016, 02:37:05 pm »
+5

Beggar/Triumph

I just came up with this Combo. I don't think I've read about this (wachsmuth mentioned it briefly here). But playing this similar to Beggar/Duke should be pretty potent. Like opening Double Beggar and on every turn you play Beggar buy Triumph. Otherwise buy Beggar and Duchies when the Estates are gone or you magically have a 5 Copper hand. The game should end on 3 of the 4 piles Estate, Duchy, Beggar, Copper. Getting 5 points per Beggar play should beat most strategies. Can someone simulate that or test play that as I have no time currently?

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #826 on: November 23, 2016, 03:11:18 am »
+2

Tower/Silver Flood
The Silver pile is big, easy to empty, and emptying it will leave you with a pretty good deck to get some Provinces and stuff.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #827 on: November 23, 2016, 06:42:57 pm »
+3

lurker / possession


jeez
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #828 on: November 23, 2016, 07:09:50 pm »
0

lurker / possession


jeez
That took me a while to work out, but wow, yes. No longer do you need to gain a Potion, or do crazy tricks trashing a Squire for a Scrying Pool then Remodelling up through Golem, to get one of the most annoying cards in the game.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #829 on: November 23, 2016, 07:15:29 pm »
+1

lurker / possession


jeez
That took me a while to work out, but wow, yes. No longer do you need to gain a Potion, or do crazy tricks trashing a Squire for a Scrying Pool then Remodelling up through Golem, to get one of the most annoying cards in the game.

Additionally, after you have Possession, the enemy lurkers become twice as effective.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #830 on: November 27, 2016, 06:44:40 pm »
+4

I don't know if it's been mentioned somewhere yet, but Banquet/Counting House appears to be pretty good.

Open double Banquet for Counting Houses, buy Counting House on $5+ except on the first hand of a shuffle where you want to buy banquet for sure. On <5$ just get another Banquet/Counting House and on 8$ you get Provinces. Maybe not on turn 4, but definitely afterwards.  Duchies early.

This is very unoptimized, but according to very rough simulator results this beats a lot of money strategies. It appears to be quite fast and is pretty resilient to lots of attacks.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #831 on: November 27, 2016, 09:08:00 pm »
0

I don't know if it's been mentioned somewhere yet, but Banquet/Counting House appears to be pretty good.

Open double Banquet for Counting Houses, buy Counting House on $5+ except on the first hand of a shuffle where you want to buy banquet for sure. On <5$ just get another Banquet/Counting House and on 8$ you get Provinces. Maybe not on turn 4, but definitely afterwards.  Duchies early.

This is very unoptimized, but according to very rough simulator results this beats a lot of money strategies. It appears to be quite fast and is pretty resilient to lots of attacks.

Nice! I really like combos /w Counting House. It can be good sometimes.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #832 on: November 27, 2016, 10:04:38 pm »
+1

Squire/Advance

Advancing a Squire gets you an action costing up to 6 and any attack, which really kick-starts your deck. Also, Squire provides the extra buys that Advance loves.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #833 on: November 27, 2016, 11:39:00 pm »
+3

Stonemason/Advance - Open Stonemason x3, and you're likely to get two $5s next shuffle.

Talisman/Keep - Use talismans to buy talismans, win the talisman split.  Now you're up 5 VP, in a good position to win the other treasure splits, and you have a lot of pile control.  I've tried this twice, and somehow it is better than it sounds.

Harbinger/Cartographer - You can use Cartographer to discard a card, and Harbinger to topdeck it again.  :P
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #834 on: December 12, 2016, 11:56:39 am »
0

+Coin on Encampment. Suddenly your Plunders are golds!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #835 on: December 12, 2016, 05:30:14 pm »
+5

Feodum/Salt the Earth

And you thought Delve was good?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #836 on: December 12, 2016, 06:31:44 pm »
+4

Masterpiece/Tower

Ridiculous if you're the only one going for it.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #837 on: December 14, 2016, 04:02:06 pm »
+4

Lurker/Castles

Just used this one, and to good effect. (It helps that the bot didn't buy Lurker).
-Lurker can gain small castles after you have trashed them. Really nice way to get the expensive castles.
-Lurker can trash Opulent Castle.
-Lurker only costs 2 so you can pick it up easily in junky hands when your castles collide.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #838 on: December 14, 2016, 04:35:05 pm »
0

What doesn't lurker combo with?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #839 on: December 14, 2016, 05:23:19 pm »
+3

What doesn't lurker combo with?
Feodum.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #840 on: December 14, 2016, 05:54:57 pm »
0

you can gain chapel with lurker and trash the feudum with chapel boom combo!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #841 on: December 14, 2016, 06:15:56 pm »
0

you can gain chapel with lurker and trash the feodum with chapel boom combo!
Then you have 3 silvers junking up your deck #Curse>Silver
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #842 on: December 14, 2016, 06:28:02 pm »
+1

Well you have a chapel so you can get rid of the silvers.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #843 on: December 14, 2016, 06:32:42 pm »
0

Well you have a chapel so you can get rid of the silvers.
Or you could of bought the chapel instead of the Lurker...
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #844 on: December 16, 2016, 02:13:45 pm »
+1

Plan + Market Square

On weak BM boards this can be a strategy in and of itself. Just open Plan / MS and trash Estates and Coppers, gaining roughly one Gold at a time this way. Sometimes you'll get two! You should then be ready to green. Obviously this isn't that strong but it can work out OK if you're otherwise bored.

That puts the "potentially" into "potentially useful" for sure.

Well, there is a grain of usefulness there: Market Square basically "combos" with any self-trasher (as opposed to what beginners might assume was primarily a "reaction" to a trashing attack.) The only trouble with using Market Square with most trashers is getting them to match up in the same hand, whereas Plan doesn't have that problem, because you can always buy Plan when Market square is in your hand.

To a certain degree, a great many of the suggestions in this thread really represent basic synergies, and almost all of them have multiple possible replacements for one or more of the cards.

In a way, this observation simply belongs in the Market Square wiki article: It's a card that like self-trashers, some self-trashers are events such as Plan and Trade, eliminating the need for matching. If you're using it with a trashing action, refer to the article on...um...matchers? Is Dominion missing a term?

Is there a list of cards/strategies somewhere that can effectively get cards to meet up in the same hand without shuffle luck? I'm thinking this needs a separate thread. I'll go make one now.

I noticed this combo on a board a day or two ago and decided to go for it. I ended up winning on turn 14.

I think this combo is a little bit stronger than just MS+self-trasher for a couple of reasons. Firstly, you are more focused on trashing than the reaction, so you buy MS and trash even when you don't have MS in hand to gain gold with. Also, if you draw into double gold and MS, you buy two MS and trash two cards in hand even if you only gain one or zero gold for it. By the time you purchase the last MS, you'll probably gain three gold that turn if you want to. Then you green.

To double province each turn, you'll need to add a money-cantrip (I picked up a single conspirator), but even at one province per turn, you'll probably do alright. Maybe pick up Province/Duchy one turn if your opponent is working fast, too.

The fact that MS cost 3 and gives you a treasure producing 3 is excellent because you really just want to trash as quickly as possible, and this quality makes double trashing much easier.

Lastly, Plan is better than self-trashers in general because you only buy it once and get the effect multiple times, unlike Trade, Embargo, Raze, Pillage, etc.

In the game I played, my opponent didn't contest the MS pile, so I may have gotten a little lucky, but I still think this a very good combo.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2016, 09:42:36 pm by aladdinstardust »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #845 on: December 20, 2016, 09:56:58 am »
+2

Something old:

Hermit + Mint
Hermit trashes Estates, gains non-Copper economy (Silver at the very least), and turns into a Madman.  The Madman helps you get most of your Coppers in play for a Mint buy.  Get thin fast!  If Minting Silver is decent, there is is further synergy.  If Mint is a bad card, Hermit can trash it.

... and something new:

Menagerie + Mill

Mill is a great Menagerie enabler as a non-terminal discard for benefit card.  If you start with both in hand, Mill is almost guaranteed to be able to discard into a hand of Menagerie + two uniques.  After playing both actions, you have a 5-card hand, but you've sifted two bad cards and are up two coins.  Rinse and repeat as needed.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #846 on: December 20, 2016, 10:17:36 am »
0

Amulet + Bonfire

This is basically just like Jack and Bonfire but a bit slower and clumsier in exchange for the Silver gain being optional. Buy two Amulet to open, then trash Estate / buy Bonfire every turn. If you can't trash an Estate, trash 1 Copper and then gain Silver every time until you've got that really thin Amulet deck you always wanted. Then go.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #847 on: December 20, 2016, 10:44:56 am »
0

Something old:

Hermit + Mint
Hermit trashes Estates, gains non-Copper economy (Silver at the very least), and turns into a Madman.  The Madman helps you get most of your Coppers in play for a Mint buy.  Get thin fast!  If Minting Silver is decent, there is is further synergy.  If Mint is a bad card, Hermit can trash it.

... and something new:

Menagerie + Mill

Mill is a great Menagerie enabler as a non-terminal discard for benefit card.  If you start with both in hand, Mill is almost guaranteed to be able to discard into a hand of Menagerie + two uniques.  After playing both actions, you have a 5-card hand, but you've sifted two bad cards and are up two coins.  Rinse and repeat as needed.

Menagerie is great. Combos with Artificer, too (which can combo with Chariot Race).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #848 on: December 24, 2016, 03:32:58 pm »
+1

Catapult + Rats

Rats trash Estates and Curses.  Catapults trash Copper and Rats.  Hooray!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #849 on: December 25, 2016, 11:18:34 pm »
+11

City Quarter + Scheme

City Quarter can be really powerful draw, but it's hard to rely on, because it might be near the bottom of your deck.  With Schemes, you can topdeck a couple City Quarters and some other actions (like Scheme) to guarantee that your deck kicks off each turn.  The draw off of those two City Quarters is so great, you can green liberally.  Add a third City Quarter if needed.  Other ways to set up City Quarter aren't nearly as good, because they require not playing some City Quarters.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2016, 11:20:25 pm by aku_chi »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #850 on: December 27, 2016, 08:51:04 am »
+11

Expedition + Trade

has an obvious synergy. Then again, I was surprised how good it turned out to be: In the log

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20161222/log.0.1482433092201.txt

I bought no action cards at all, and it got me 4 provinces in 12 turns, later 8 provinces in 18 turns. I was impressed. (Btw, it was kind of a sologame, as the bots play was nonsensical).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #851 on: December 29, 2016, 04:14:28 am »
+7

Donate + Market Square

Spend your first turns buying Market Squares. Then buy Donate, trash the Estates and most of the Coppers. Repeat once or twice, then start greening.

I could repeatedly end the game by turn 11 with 5-6 Provinces. With a single Wharf, I got 6 Provinces by turn 9. Grabbing any sifter along the way can help.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #852 on: December 30, 2016, 07:17:07 pm »
+1

Vault + Scrying Pool

Draw your deck with scrying pool and a couple villages, then play a vault and discard all your action cards for coin and use a scrying pool to draw them all back.  It needs villages, +buy, and maybe some trashing to really work optimally, but can be a huge source of payload when it works.  The fact that you can discard specifically your actions for coin to guarantee that you can draw them back with scrying pool and repeat several times makes it more than just the "vault likes big hands, scrying pool likes payload actions" generic synergy.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #853 on: December 30, 2016, 07:22:05 pm »
+1

Vault + Scrying Pool

Draw your deck with scrying pool and a couple villages, then play a vault and discard all your action cards for coin and use a scrying pool to draw them all back.  It needs villages, +buy, and maybe some trashing to really work optimally, but can be a huge source of payload when it works.  The fact that you can discard specifically your actions for coin to guarantee that you can draw them back with scrying pool and repeat several times makes it more than just the "vault likes big hands, scrying pool likes payload actions" generic synergy.

See also: secret chamber, storeroom.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #854 on: December 31, 2016, 06:08:26 am »
+4

Haunted Woods vs Villa

Having a Haunted Woods in play turns off most of the crazy things your opponent would otherwise be able to do with Villa. A counter rather than a combo, does this belong here?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #855 on: December 31, 2016, 06:32:50 am »
+7

Charm + Capital

Charm's weakness is that, really, you want to gain $5s or $6s with it, but you then have to hit $5 or $6 with the rest of your hand. Capital's weakness is that it doesn't actually produce any net money. Get some sifting to line them up together, though, and you get two $5s or $6s but only take debt for one of those.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #856 on: January 01, 2017, 09:21:13 am »
0

Farmer's Market + Graverobber/Rogue

Play a Farmer's Market for points and then gain it straight back again with Graverobber or Rogue. My very first game on the new client featured Farmer's Market and Rogue.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #857 on: January 01, 2017, 09:53:42 am »
+1

Villa + Watchtower

Let's you play a bunch of treasures, use $4 for the Villa, and continue to draw your deck. 
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #858 on: January 01, 2017, 05:18:06 pm »
+4

Villa + Watchtower

Let's you play a bunch of treasures, use $4 for the Villa, and continue to draw your deck.

Note all of this is theory from a novice player

Villa + 'Draw-to-X'

Seems like there might be some pretty strong synergy between Villa and all the 'draw-to-X' cards. Obviously disappearing villages and 'draw-to-X' go well together, but Villa also lets you empty treasures out of your hand without your turn truly ending. In addition each 'draw-to-X' card has some individual synergy as well.

Villa + Watchtower
If you can get enough coins with a Watchtower in your hand, you can buy a Villa and another card, and then play all 3.

Villa + Library
Play Library -> draw a hand with treasures and a single Library, discarding other actions -> Buy Villa -> Play Villa + Library and draw through your treasure-thinned deck
Would work especially well with Estate trashing

Villa + Jack of all Trades
Buy Villa to get all the treasures out of your hand. Play Villa + Jack. Repeat if you draw another Jack. Villa + Jack can handle extra treasures as long as there are Villas available. Being able to draw through so many cards and play early Jacks makes this strong for Estate trashing as well, which is good because Villa + Draw-to-X is hurt badly by victory cards.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #859 on: January 01, 2017, 05:44:52 pm »
+1

Villa + Watchtower

Let's you play a bunch of treasures, use $4 for the Villa, and continue to draw your deck.

Note all of this is theory from a novice player

Villa + 'Draw-to-X'

Seems like there might be some pretty strong synergy between Villa and all the 'draw-to-X' cards. Obviously disappearing villages and 'draw-to-X' go well together, but Villa also lets you empty treasures out of your hand without your turn truly ending. In addition each 'draw-to-X' card has some individual synergy as well.

Villa + Watchtower
If you can get enough coins with a Watchtower in your hand, you can buy a Villa and another card, and then play all 3.

Villa + Library
Play Library -> draw a hand with treasures and a single Library, discarding other actions -> Buy Villa -> Play Villa + Library and draw through your treasure-thinned deck
Would work especially well with Estate trashing

Villa + Jack of all Trades
Buy Villa to get all the treasures out of your hand. Play Villa + Jack. Repeat if you draw another Jack. Villa + Jack can handle extra treasures as long as there are Villas available. Being able to draw through so many cards and play early Jacks makes this strong for Estate trashing as well, which is good because Villa + Draw-to-X is hurt badly by victory cards.

Right; doesn't need to be Watchtower.  Specifically Villa is useful here because it gives you the Action you need to play the Watchtower (or whatever) and still have another Action to continue whatever.   But I think the utility and versatility of Watchtower makes it my favorite one. 
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #860 on: January 02, 2017, 03:33:18 am »
+1

Wall and Marauder.

Not only do the ruins smell a bit more like curses, the money card Marauder gains is spent, thus not contributing to hand size.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #861 on: January 02, 2017, 05:53:16 pm »
+5

King's Court + Wine Merchant

Like Guile's theme, King's Court goes with everything.  But, it goes especially well with Wine Merchant.  Wine Merchant can help you spike $7 for King's Court.  And Wine Merchant is a great target for King's Court.  Assuming you want your Wine Merchant(s) back and no other payload:

1 King's Court + 1 Wine Merchant  = $10 | 4 buys
2 King's Court + 3 Wine Merchants = $34 | 10 buys
3 King's Court + 5 Wine Merchants = $58 | 16 buys

Go forth and empty some piles!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #862 on: January 02, 2017, 06:37:00 pm »
+1

Artisan and Mystic
Gain Mystic in hand and guarantee the draw.

Artisan and Venture
Gain Venture in hand, topdeck green, skip it with Venture.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #863 on: January 03, 2017, 02:44:00 am »
0

Artisan and Mystic
Gain Mystic in hand and guarantee the draw.
You would have to have a spare action for this, therefore Cartographer instead of Artisan may be handier sometimes (though the point of Artisan is that you can specifically gain the card it comboes with.
Quote
Artisan and Venture
Gain Venture in hand, topdeck green, skip it with Venture.
This, on the other hand, looks like a great use for a terminal action like Artisan.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #864 on: January 05, 2017, 03:02:54 pm »
+3

Vassal+Magpie

Use Magpie to know what the top card of your deck is and gain a lot of actions that can be played with Vassal

« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 03:08:39 pm by NoMoreFun »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #865 on: January 05, 2017, 11:28:38 pm »
+3

Advisor / Harbinger

Play a bunch of Advisors, your 'good' cards will be discarded, then draw them back with a few Harbingers.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #866 on: January 06, 2017, 09:35:19 am »
+3

Catapult + Transmogrify

Transmogrify can turn Estates into Catapults or Silvers.  Later, Transmogrify can turn Silver or colliding Catapults into Rocks (which results in a Silver gain to hand).  This is pretty strong.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #867 on: January 06, 2017, 10:48:03 am »
+1

Cache-Bandit Fort-trasher

A pretty specific case, but I just played a game where Cache was a star card. Bandit Fort made us not want to buy Gold, and Junk Dealer made us not mind those coppers (it would have been dead otherwise). It would have been even better if the trasher had more useful benefits, like Temple or Forager.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #868 on: January 07, 2017, 12:07:04 am »
+3

Highway/Engineer

Hold on to the Engineer until the end of the game, and get at least 4 Highways (Engineer helps with this once you have one Highway).  Then you can get two Provinces from one final Engineer play, and you'll usually have at least at that point anyway to grab a 3rd.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #869 on: January 10, 2017, 12:31:47 pm »
0

Would anybody like to see a complete list of all the combos here without having to sift through all the comments?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #870 on: January 10, 2017, 12:39:29 pm »
0

Would anybody like to see a complete list of all the combos here without having to sift through all the comments?

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #871 on: January 10, 2017, 01:47:36 pm »
0

Would anybody like to see a complete list of all the combos here without having to sift through all the comments?

All the combos? Sure. All the card interactions people have posted? No.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #872 on: January 10, 2017, 02:21:03 pm »
0

Would anybody like to see a complete list of all the combos here without having to sift through all the comments?

All the combos? Sure. All the card interactions people have posted? No.

I don't get it. What do you mean by not all the card interactions.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #873 on: January 10, 2017, 02:30:58 pm »
0

Would anybody like to see a complete list of all the combos here without having to sift through all the comments?

All the combos? Sure. All the card interactions people have posted? No.

I don't get it. What do you mean by not all the card interactions.

I mean that most of these aren't combos. Hell, it's already pretty good by the standards of this thread if a given interaction is anywhere near "potentially useful" in practice.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #874 on: January 10, 2017, 02:59:34 pm »
0

Played a game with Vassal+Rats

It worked decently well. Rats gives you a high density of Actions, and you aren't forced to play the Rats if Vassal turns it up (unlike Herald). Not sure if it would be good enough to make Rats worth buying in a game without a direct combo (maybe in games with Cursers) but it was nice to be playing lots of Vassals.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #875 on: January 10, 2017, 04:00:06 pm »
0

Would anybody like to see a complete list of all the combos here without having to sift through all the comments?

All the combos? Sure. All the card interactions people have posted? No.

I don't get it. What do you mean by not all the card interactions.

I mean that most of these aren't combos. Hell, it's already pretty good by the standards of this thread if a given interaction is anywhere near "potentially useful" in practice.


So what's wrong with interactions?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #876 on: January 10, 2017, 04:43:58 pm »
+14

oh hey look it's Awaclus being pedantic about the extremely specific meaning he gives a word that isn't universally used by everyone else in the same way again I'm sure this will be another wonderful thread where everyone walks away happy and more intelligent as a result
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #877 on: January 10, 2017, 04:49:50 pm »
+2

oh hey look it's Awaclus being pedantic about the extremely specific meaning he gives a word that isn't universally used by everyone else in the same way again I'm sure this will be another wonderful thread where everyone walks away happy and more intelligent as a result

We should have a plugin that replaces Awaclus' special-definition words with some other string that better represents (by someone's subjective value, or maybe you can customize) the idea.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #878 on: January 10, 2017, 05:36:56 pm »
+3

"Neat and potentially useful card interactions" was the name of this thread specifically to not use the word combo.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #879 on: January 10, 2017, 05:45:41 pm »
+2

"Neat and potentially useful card interactions" was the name of this thread specifically to not use the word combo.

And also to make the thread intended only for card interactions that are potentially useful. However, a lot of people seem to forget about that when they're posting interactions.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #880 on: January 10, 2017, 06:35:25 pm »
+2

"Neat and potentially useful card interactions" was the name of this thread specifically to not use the word combo.

And also to make the thread intended only for card interactions that are potentially useful. However, a lot of people seem to forget about that when they're posting interactions.

No one forces you to read the thread.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #881 on: January 10, 2017, 06:45:31 pm »
0

"Neat and potentially useful card interactions" was the name of this thread specifically to not use the word combo.

And also to make the thread intended only for card interactions that are potentially useful. However, a lot of people seem to forget about that when they're posting interactions.

No one forces you to read the thread.

That would be a fair thing to say if the thread was titled "neat and not at all useful card interactions". However, the subject of the thread itself is actually worth reading, and what people are posting in it is, for some parts, offtopic.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #882 on: January 10, 2017, 07:36:21 pm »
+4

They can't all be the most accurately-named threads ever.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #883 on: January 10, 2017, 08:08:14 pm »
+11

Some neat, and not at all useful card interactions:

Loan+Bureaucrat: Topdeck a silver, and immediately trash that junk.

Bridge+Develop: Play 7 bridges, then Develop a copper into a Province.

Royal Blacksmith+Watchtower: Get all copper out of your hand with Royal Blacksmith so you can use Watchtower to draw back up to 6.

King's Court+Arena: Drew a King's Court dead?  Discard it for 2 VP.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #884 on: January 11, 2017, 11:22:55 am »
0

Would anybody like to see a complete list of all the combos here without having to sift through all the comments?

Be the change you want to see in the world

He didn't even mention that he'd like to see the change, hence "anybody" in lieu of "anybody else".
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #885 on: January 11, 2017, 11:23:34 am »
+1

"Neat and potentially useful card interactions" was the name of this thread specifically to not use the word combo.

And also to make the thread intended only for card interactions that are potentially useful. However, a lot of people seem to forget about that when they're posting interactions.

No one forces you to read the thread.

The posts could be sorted by number of upvotes.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #886 on: January 11, 2017, 02:58:55 pm »
+1

Just played a game with Armory and Vassal.  With some village support, you can topdeck an action with Armory and then immediately play it with Vassal.  Twice I managed to play multiple Armories to set up a stack of multiple Vassals that I could immediately chain through with another Vassal in hand. 

Not necessarily a game-changing combo, but it was certainly neat and useful to me at the time!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #887 on: January 11, 2017, 05:19:58 pm »
+5

Courtier and Distant Lands

Of course, it is generally true/obvious that Courtier likes cards with many types, the gold standard of which is 3 (go away josephine). Distant lands hits that. But what's nice here is that you can get into a good rhythm of "Courtier reveals Distant lands for Action, Coins, Gold", playing a distant lands, and then easily hitting 5 for another. Meanwhile you're putting gold in your deck to prepare to switch to province-ing.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #888 on: January 12, 2017, 11:02:07 am »
+3

I want to see some sort of Herald + Vassal + Golem deck (plus Steward or something to help you trash down). At some point, your entire deck just plays itself.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #889 on: January 12, 2017, 02:19:56 pm »
0

Insert teacher, for all the tokens.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #890 on: January 13, 2017, 01:53:41 pm »
+11

Keep+Humble Castle
Humble Castle automatically gets you 5 points for Keep, meaning that even if you don't get any other Castles, it's worth at least as much as a Province.  This can lead to a massive first player advantage.  Buying what is effectively a Copper for 6+ VP on turn one may not always be the best choice, but it's still an option that's only available to the first player (or first two players in multiplayer) to take it, and on a weak/sloggish board, or a board where you want Castles anyway, it can be hugely uneven.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #891 on: January 14, 2017, 12:29:13 pm »
+4

Remake + Villa

Remake a $3 into a Villa, making remake non-terminal. Then use your second trash on something else, such as Villa -> $5.


Not the greatest, but it works out to be a non-terminal Remodel of a $3 if you do that.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2017, 12:35:52 pm by Skumpy »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #892 on: January 15, 2017, 12:43:07 am »
0

I want to see some sort of Herald + Vassal + Golem deck (plus Steward or something to help you trash down). At some point, your entire deck just plays itself.

And then you draw your deck and you can't do much else.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #893 on: January 15, 2017, 07:36:43 am »
+1

Reggie, Vassal gives +$2, right? So that's something. With teacher, this deck could be insane. :D Put in a few soldiers for attack and you are good to go. :p
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #894 on: January 15, 2017, 12:34:46 pm »
0

You really only need +Buy for that deck to excel. But an Attack or two helps as well.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #895 on: January 15, 2017, 07:05:59 pm »
0

Reggie, Vassal gives +$2, right? So that's something. With teacher, this deck could be insane. :D Put in a few soldiers for attack and you are good to go. :p

That's true. My point was more that all three of those cards rely on you having cards left in your deck, and become somewhat pointless once all of your cards are in your hand or in play. But you'd hopefully have a few actions left over and could play more cards.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #896 on: January 16, 2017, 11:47:40 am »
+1

Alms + Spice Merchant

Obviously, Alms can gain Spice Merchant, which enables strong 4/4 and occasionally 5/4 openings.  But, there's additional synergy if there's a $2 card worth getting.  If you use Spice Merchant's coins and buy option and don't play any treasures, you can buy a $2 and Alms for a <$4 card.  Other cards can do this (Messenger, the late Woodcutter), but Spice Merchant also trashed Copper, so it's better.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #897 on: January 16, 2017, 01:50:13 pm »
+7

Treasure Map + Donate + Windfall (+ Embargo)

I know TM+Donate's been listed, but for the all time supercharge I just did this (had 5/2):
T1: TM
T2: Embargo
T3: TM
T4: Embargoed Gold, bought Donate, trashed all but 2 TM, paid some debt
T5: Played TM/trashed 2 TM got 4 Gold
T6: Played 4 Gold bought Windfall + paid remaining debt
Now I have a hand of 7 Gold with Gold embargoed for everyone else and I buy a Province 8 straight turns to end game(3p). This obviously works w/o Embargo, but it just made it cooler.


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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #898 on: January 17, 2017, 02:43:42 pm »
0

Engineer + Silk Road

I just played a game where I bought nothing but Engineers, and piled Silk Roads and Heralds (which were mostly useless, but sufficed for a third pile).  This seems much better than Workshop+Gardens.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #899 on: January 18, 2017, 04:37:55 am »
+1

Steward + Windfall
In the absence of a fast strategy, or if the engine builds slow and wants a long game (like tokens), this can be a decent 2-card combo. Open double steward and trash down aggressively, buying nothing (you don't need anything but windfall, cantrips can be ok but could be a hindrance if you're going for 2). Eventually you'll hit steward+ 3 coppers or thereabout on turn 7-8, which will let you buy windfall twice (drawing with steward for the second). Against another BM, you may want to trigger windfall a turn earlier and just stick with one. The advantage is that the deck is insanely resistant to greening - you can pick up all the provinces no sweat.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #900 on: January 18, 2017, 10:01:47 am »
+2

Cache + Fountain

It's kind of awkward trying to pick up an extra 3 Coppers in a Fountain game, particularly if there's no +Buy.  Cache solves that problem by giving them to you when you buy a "Gold".  Beggar is better, obviously, but then you have a Beggar in your deck, and you really only want 3 extra coppers, not tons.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #901 on: January 18, 2017, 04:27:03 pm »
+2

Cache + Fountain

It's kind of awkward trying to pick up an extra 3 Coppers in a Fountain game, particularly if there's no +Buy.  Cache solves that problem by giving them to you when you buy a "Gold".  Beggar is better, obviously, but then you have a Beggar in your deck, and you really only want 3 extra coppers, not tons.

Banquet + Fountain

For basically the same reasons.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #902 on: January 18, 2017, 06:37:57 pm »
+1

Cache + Fountain

It's kind of awkward trying to pick up an extra 3 Coppers in a Fountain game, particularly if there's no +Buy.  Cache solves that problem by giving them to you when you buy a "Gold".  Beggar is better, obviously, but then you have a Beggar in your deck, and you really only want 3 extra coppers, not tons.

Banquet + Fountain

For basically the same reasons.
If you don't trash any Coppers, you can satisfy Fountain in a single $3 buy if the <$5 card you choose to gain with Banquet is a third Copper, which means that even if you don't have a lot of buys, you can still wait to buy the additional Coppers late in the game.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #903 on: January 18, 2017, 06:56:12 pm »
0

Banquet + Fountain + Cache
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #904 on: January 19, 2017, 12:53:28 am »
+3

Banquet + Ill-Gotten Gains

While we're on the topic of Banquet, I just played a game with these two and noticed the rush opportunity.  Banquet basically guarantees an IGG purchase every turn (you can open double IGG on a 4-3 split!), and with the flood of Coppers, hitting $3 is no problem.  I emptied the IGGs and Curses in ten turns and then rushed Duchies. 

Not a great way to make friends. 
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #905 on: January 19, 2017, 12:56:18 am »
0

Banquet + Ill-Gotten Gains

While we're on the topic of Banquet, I just played a game with these two and noticed the rush opportunity.  Banquet basically guarantees an IGG purchase every turn (you can open double IGG on a 4-3 split!), and with the flood of Coppers, hitting $3 is no problem.  I emptied the IGGs and Curses in ten turns and then rushed Duchies. 

Not a great way to make friends.

Banquet gains only Action Cards =( We can keep our friends!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #906 on: January 19, 2017, 12:57:56 am »
+3

Banquet gains only Action Cards =( We can keep our friends!

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #907 on: January 19, 2017, 12:58:39 am »
0

Banquet + Ill-Gotten Gains

While we're on the topic of Banquet, I just played a game with these two and noticed the rush opportunity.  Banquet basically guarantees an IGG purchase every turn (you can open double IGG on a 4-3 split!), and with the flood of Coppers, hitting $3 is no problem.  I emptied the IGGs and Curses in ten turns and then rushed Duchies. 

Not a great way to make friends.

Banquet gains only Action Cards =( We can keep our friends!

well, we can't keep them.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #908 on: January 19, 2017, 04:02:52 pm »
+8

Minion + Courtier

Minion likes disappearing coin, and is 2 types. Courtier can act as nonterminal +$3 in a minion deck.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #909 on: January 19, 2017, 06:01:05 pm »
+4

Mandarin / Gladiator (Fortune)

Play 4 Treasures and a Fortune ==> buy Province + Mandarin ==> repeat.  Fortune's +buy is particularly useful.  Probably much stronger stuff to do with Fortune, but it's kinda cool.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #910 on: January 20, 2017, 01:02:47 am »
+2

Baths/Mission

I just saw this funny little interaction between Baths and Mission in a game I just played. Paying 4 for mission and doing nothing for two consecutive turns, actually nets you more points than buying Duchy (credit should go to my opponent though (a player called Mediocre Unicorn) I just copied what he did afterwards).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #911 on: January 24, 2017, 04:54:07 am »
+3

Lurker + Cultist

Trash a Cultist, draw 3 cards (= 2 Lab plays)

Lurker + Fortress

Trash a Fortress, put it into your hand and play it.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #912 on: January 24, 2017, 07:11:11 pm »
0

Based on a game I just had:

Minion + Soldier

Soldier gives lots of money if you play lots of attack cards. Minion is an attack card. Discard a lot with minions to find your Soldier, then play it for loads of money. It's pretty easy to hit province with this. Get more than one soldier to up the odds of getting a soldier at the right time.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #913 on: January 24, 2017, 08:12:19 pm »
0

Based on a game I just had:

Minion + Soldier

Soldier gives lots of money if you play lots of attack cards. Minion is an attack card. Discard a lot with minions to find your Soldier, then play it for loads of money. It's pretty easy to hit province with this. Get more than one soldier to up the odds of getting a soldier at the right time.

Urchin + Soldier is even more brutal, and Familiar Soldier is even crazy, and don't forget Disciple too!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #914 on: January 25, 2017, 09:29:45 am »
+1

Scrying Pool as well.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #915 on: January 25, 2017, 10:24:07 am »
0

Scrying Pool as well.

Torturer, Margrave, and *shudder* Spy before it got axed in 2nd edition. The last thing we need is to have Spy spam be part of the optimal strategy.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #916 on: January 25, 2017, 01:10:38 pm »
+1

Lurker + Cultist

Trash a Cultist, draw 3 cards (= 2 Lab plays)

Lurker + Fortress

Trash a Fortress, put it into your hand and play it.

On the same theme, Catacombs turns Lurker into a non-terminal Workshop at a 33% discount.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #917 on: January 25, 2017, 01:22:17 pm »
+1

Lurker + Cultist

Trash a Cultist, draw 3 cards (= 2 Lab plays)

Lurker + Fortress

Trash a Fortress, put it into your hand and play it.

On the same theme, Catacombs turns Lurker into a non-terminal Workshop at a 33% discount.

And get a catacombs with your next lurker!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #918 on: January 25, 2017, 01:45:56 pm »
0

Salt the Earth + Nobles/Mill/Distant Lands + Lurker
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #919 on: January 26, 2017, 02:01:52 am »
+1

Contraband / Charm

Wait until your opponent chooses the banned card, then decide what to do with Charm.  Really not that useful, but neat.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #920 on: January 26, 2017, 02:34:22 am »
+1

Salt the Earth + Nobles/Mill/Distant Lands + Lurker
This doesn't really work; you'll only end up putting stuff in the trash for your opponent to gain.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #921 on: January 26, 2017, 03:14:51 am »
+1

I just had a neat game with Emeric where there was trashing and a Farming Village + Rabble draw engine, but no +Buy. We both ended up buying Tunnel, because there was a good chance Rabble would topdeck Tunnel. Farming Village would then discard Tunnel and give us Gold, which freed up the buy for important things, like Provinces.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #922 on: January 26, 2017, 08:08:37 am »
0

Lurker + Cultist

Trash a Cultist, draw 3 cards (= 2 Lab plays)

Lurker + Fortress

Trash a Fortress, put it into your hand and play it.

On the same theme, Catacombs turns Lurker into a non-terminal Workshop at a 33% discount.

Play Lurker, trash Squire, gain a Goons... Lurker is really potent sometimes.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #923 on: January 26, 2017, 10:30:35 am »
+7

Beggar, Tower
Ever wanted to buy ALL the beggars?

Ever wanted to own ALL the copper?

Think gardens is too mainstream?

Ever wanted to experience your VP counter tick up by 50 by playing a SINGLE ACTION?

Wanted to laugh at your opponent's pathetic attempts at attacking you?

Beggar + Tower is the combo for you!

But wait, there's more!

Beggar, Tower, Gardens

If those pesky engines are giving you trouble, (they almost always will) just go EVEN FASTER!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #924 on: January 26, 2017, 12:08:34 pm »
+3

Engineer, Treasure Map
with any multi-card trashing can be nice. You can trash down literally all starting cards, buy engineer for free, and have a deck of just 4 golds and your trasher two turns later.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #925 on: January 28, 2017, 11:28:22 am »
+1

Beggar, Tower
Beggar, Tower, Gardens

So from the discussion in Discord (and their test games), is sounds like Beggar-Tower is a legit counter to most BM strategies, but it gets wrecked by any engine. It turns out that having 40 0-point coppers kinda sucks when the engine 3-piles other stuff.

And it sounds like Beggar-Tower actually beats Beggar-Tower-Gardens. The Gardens just can't make up for losing the Copper split (lol..."losing the Copper split").

Beggar-Tower-Inn seems pretty powerful. Maybe even enough to beat a weaker engine? You get to shuffle in a bunch of Beggars, and then you can actually play multiples of them per turn.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #926 on: January 28, 2017, 01:06:03 pm »
0

Beggar, Tower
Beggar, Tower, Gardens

So from the discussion in Discord (and their test games), is sounds like Beggar-Tower is a legit counter to most BM strategies, but it gets wrecked by any engine. It turns out that having 40 0-point coppers kinda sucks when the engine 3-piles other stuff.

And it sounds like Beggar-Tower actually beats Beggar-Tower-Gardens. The Gardens just can't make up for losing the Copper split (lol..."losing the Copper split").

Beggar-Tower-Inn seems pretty powerful. Maybe even enough to beat a weaker engine? You get to shuffle in a bunch of Beggars, and then you can actually play multiples of them per turn.
oh, I meant banquet not gardens. derp
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #927 on: January 31, 2017, 07:51:28 am »
0

I got a kingdom with Banquet and Watchtower with Grand Market and Quarry. Picked a Grand Market plut Coppers with a Quarry and two Coppers, trashed the Coppers gained with Watchtower. This is just sort of an interaction, since Quarry-Quarry gets you a Grand Market just as nice as Watchtower (only on your discard pile) and another Quarry mixes better with the existing Quarries in my deck than the Watchtower. But sometimes you just have 2 to spend.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #928 on: January 31, 2017, 07:57:34 am »
0

Gaining a Gold and 4 Silvers for $3 with Trader/Banquet/Cache is fun. Getting $3+Trader hand is much easier than $5 so Banquet+Trader might even be a straight up combo
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 08:01:52 am by NoMoreFun »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #929 on: February 03, 2017, 10:43:22 am »
+1

Swindler/Battlefield

As if hitting Estates wasn't already bad enough...
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #930 on: February 03, 2017, 11:59:22 am »
+1

Haunted Woods counter Villa pretty hard.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #931 on: February 03, 2017, 12:51:40 pm »
+1

chariot race + knights/rogue


cycle around opponent's top of deck while also generally decreasing their value
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #932 on: February 03, 2017, 03:49:52 pm »
+2

Delve/Duke

The silver flood sets your deck up nicely for a Duchy/Duke rush. If you overshoot and hit 7 you can have another silver with your Duchy or Duke.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #933 on: February 04, 2017, 11:09:02 am »
+4

Settlers/Stables

Discard a Copper with Stables, pick it back up with Settlers!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #934 on: February 04, 2017, 09:05:23 pm »
+5

I just played a game with no trashing other than Loan; paying attention to my deck and using Summon/Island at judicious points came in handy.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #935 on: February 05, 2017, 04:19:51 am »
0

you can Mint Crowns!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #936 on: February 05, 2017, 04:46:22 am »
+5

you can Mint Crowns!

And you can Crown Mints!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #937 on: February 05, 2017, 05:39:40 am »
+3

you can Mint Crowns!

And you can Crown Mints!
And you can Crown Mint to Mint 2 Crowns!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #938 on: February 05, 2017, 07:12:57 am »
0

you can Mint Crowns!

And you can Crown Mints!
And you can Crown Mint to Mint 2 Crowns!
All because you played Storyteller!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #939 on: February 05, 2017, 08:50:11 am »
+2

tfair+ferry+tmap is great, in one game I opened baron/ferry tmap, on turn 3 hit 6 from baron to topdeck two maps and get golds on turn 4.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #940 on: February 05, 2017, 09:44:31 am »
+2

Apprentice and Windfall

Pay 5 for three golds, apprentice them for 18 cards.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #941 on: February 05, 2017, 10:04:32 am »
0

tfair+ferry+tmap is great, in one game I opened baron/ferry tmap, on turn 3 hit 6 from baron to topdeck two maps and get golds on turn 4.

It also requires three unique components.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #942 on: February 05, 2017, 10:58:37 am »
0

tfair+ferry+tmap is great, in one game I opened baron/ferry tmap, on turn 3 hit 6 from baron to topdeck two maps and get golds on turn 4.

It also requires three unique components.

I mean, the real interaction here is just the tfair and tmap, which won't be that uncommon. Under normal circumstances, that would take 10 money...and 10 money for 4 golds is a pretty good value. There are a ton of other cards which will make this combo easier to pull off though (such as ferry).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #943 on: February 05, 2017, 11:16:07 am »
0

I mean, the real interaction here is just the tfair and tmap, which won't be that uncommon. Under normal circumstances, that would take 10 money...and 10 money for 4 golds is a pretty good value. There are a ton of other cards which will make this combo easier to pull off though (such as ferry).

Why do you even need 4 Golds if you're already making 10 money?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #944 on: February 05, 2017, 11:25:15 am »
0

I mean, the real interaction here is just the tfair and tmap, which won't be that uncommon. Under normal circumstances, that would take 10 money...and 10 money for 4 golds is a pretty good value. There are a ton of other cards which will make this combo easier to pull off though (such as ferry).

Why do you even need 4 Golds if you're already making 10 money?

Maybe on Colony boards that would be nice...
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Awaclus

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #945 on: February 05, 2017, 11:31:53 am »
0

Maybe on Colony boards that would be nice...

Gold on Colony boards is hardly better than Silver on normal boards.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #946 on: February 05, 2017, 03:54:35 pm »
+1

Just had this in a game:

Palace + Masterpiece + Soothsayer
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #947 on: February 05, 2017, 04:29:54 pm »
+1

Just had this in a game:

Palace + Masterpiece + Soothsayer

Have you noticed that it has three unique components?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #948 on: February 05, 2017, 04:34:14 pm »
+7

Just had this in a game:

Palace + Masterpiece + Soothsayer

Have you noticed that it has three unique components?

Have you noticed that no one gives a shit?  It's a neat interaction, whether or not it's likely to come up very often.  It came up for me in a random game, and I made use of it.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #949 on: February 05, 2017, 04:54:30 pm »
+1

Have you noticed that no one gives a shit?  It's a neat interaction, whether or not it's likely to come up very often.

But it isn't potentially useful. Out of principle, I wouldn't really like to have Adam's thread derailed even though he doesn't post on f.ds anymore.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #950 on: February 05, 2017, 05:11:35 pm »
+4

Have you noticed that no one gives a shit?  It's a neat interaction, whether or not it's likely to come up very often.

But it isn't potentially useful. Out of principle, I wouldn't really like to have Adam's thread derailed even though he doesn't post on f.ds anymore.

You're the person derailing it, not everybody who mentions a three card combo. You're the one who feels compelled to start this discussion every fucking time it comes up.
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Awaclus

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #951 on: February 05, 2017, 05:15:16 pm »
+1

Have you noticed that no one gives a shit?  It's a neat interaction, whether or not it's likely to come up very often.

But it isn't potentially useful. Out of principle, I wouldn't really like to have Adam's thread derailed even though he doesn't post on f.ds anymore.

You're the person derailing it, not everybody who mentions a three card combo. You're the one who feels compelled to start this discussion every fucking time it comes up.

Three-card interactions aren't potentially useful. This is not the thread for interactions that aren't potentially useful.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #952 on: February 05, 2017, 05:23:11 pm »
+7

Of course three-card interactions are potentialyl useful, the potential is just lower
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #953 on: February 05, 2017, 05:54:46 pm »
+4

Of course three-card interactions are potentialyl useful, the potential is just lower

And learning of a specific three component interaction can point to other three component interactions; the one that started this little discussion was Palace + Masterpiece + Soothsayer. Another more broad interaction can be extrapolated from this: I would definitely say Palace + Silver gainer + Gold gainer is "potentially useful", especially when one of the gainers is non-terminal.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #954 on: February 05, 2017, 06:00:04 pm »
+2

Also, Palace is a Landmark.  It's not part of the 10 Kingdom cards, and is part of a lower pool of Events/Landmarks to choose from.  So there's a higher probability of seeing the interaction I mentioned than if Palace were replaced with, say, a Kingdom Victory card that did the same thing.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #955 on: February 05, 2017, 06:48:27 pm »
0

you can Mint Crowns!

And you can Crown Mints!
And you can Crown Mint to Mint 2 Crowns!
Or you can Crown a Crown to play a Horn of Plenty twice, gaining Villa, returning to your Action phase, then Crowning the Mint. At which point we're far outside the potentially useful interactions, and rapidly heading for the border of "neat" as well.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #956 on: February 05, 2017, 09:23:43 pm »
0

Crowning a crown on HoP to gain Villa sounds beautiful.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #957 on: February 05, 2017, 09:40:19 pm »
0

Crowning a crown on HoP to gain Villa sounds beautiful.

Does the HoP get to gain a 2nd card?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #958 on: February 05, 2017, 10:00:04 pm »
0

Crowning a crown on HoP to gain Villa sounds beautiful.

Does the HoP get to gain a 2nd card?
I'm pretty sure it does, it's just that you happen to gain it in the new Action phase.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #959 on: February 05, 2017, 10:21:26 pm »
0

I feel like there is a Crown Royal joke here somewhere...
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #960 on: February 06, 2017, 08:00:21 pm »
+3

Awaclus, the probability of a combo appearing says nothing about how useful it is if it does. You could argue that for combos that actually require three cards to be lined up, it will often not be worth the effort (not considering cases where the third card's purpose IS to line up the other two). But that argument does not apply if one is a Landmark.
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Awaclus

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #961 on: February 06, 2017, 08:10:06 pm »
+1

Awaclus, the probability of a combo appearing says nothing about how useful it is if it does. You could argue that for combos that actually require three cards to be lined up, it will often not be worth the effort (not considering cases where the third card's purpose IS to line up the other two). But that argument does not apply if one is a Landmark.

Yes, but that's only if it ever appears, which it won't. This is supposed to be a thread for the kind of stuff that people should actually memorize and check whether or not it's there at the start of every game. A more appropriate thread for sharing an interesting 3-piece interaction that just came up would be the Best Dominion Moments thread because that's exactly what it is: a moment. A moment that is now in the past and will never happen again.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #962 on: February 06, 2017, 08:26:11 pm »
+4

Awaclus, the probability of a combo appearing says nothing about how useful it is if it does. You could argue that for combos that actually require three cards to be lined up, it will often not be worth the effort (not considering cases where the third card's purpose IS to line up the other two). But that argument does not apply if one is a Landmark.

Yes, but that's only if it ever appears, which it won't. This is supposed to be a thread for the kind of stuff that people should actually memorize and check whether or not it's there at the start of every game. A more appropriate thread for sharing an interesting 3-piece interaction that just came up would be the Best Dominion Moments thread because that's exactly what it is: a moment. A moment that is now in the past and will never happen again.

Not everyone plays full random.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #963 on: February 06, 2017, 10:50:55 pm »
+4

look dude everyone uses this thread to post about something neat they found out after they played a game, why does it make you happy to be a dick to people for not having fun discussing things in exactly the way you want them to
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #964 on: February 07, 2017, 12:05:46 am »
+1

Awaclus, the probability of a combo appearing says nothing about how useful it is if it does. You could argue that for combos that actually require three cards to be lined up, it will often not be worth the effort (not considering cases where the third card's purpose IS to line up the other two). But that argument does not apply if one is a Landmark.

Yes, but that's only if it ever appears, which it won't. This is supposed to be a thread for the kind of stuff that people should actually memorize and check whether or not it's there at the start of every game. A more appropriate thread for sharing an interesting 3-piece interaction that just came up would be the Best Dominion Moments thread because that's exactly what it is: a moment. A moment that is now in the past and will never happen again.

So, how exactly are you entitled to define what this thread is about?
Edit: It appears AdamH upvoted you, so, uh, I guess this IS the definition? Bummer. Do I need to create a "fun card interactions that need not necessary be probable to come up" thread, now?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 12:08:18 am by Asper »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #965 on: February 07, 2017, 03:36:24 am »
+3

Yesterday we had Charm with Overlord and Royal Blacksmith in the kingdom.

As you can buy debt-only cards anytime you are debt-free, you can buy one, get one free, pay later. The interaction is not perfect as with Charm and Royal Blacksmith you have already two card that Overlord cannot impersonate. Indeed we had so few +Action cards in the kingdom that we repeatedly used Overlord as a Hamlet.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #966 on: February 07, 2017, 04:50:28 am »
+10

I don't know if that was mentioned, but Borrow + Diplomat is kinda nice. +$1 each turn and + 2 Actions from Diplomat.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #967 on: February 07, 2017, 05:07:54 am »
+1

So, how exactly are you entitled to define what this thread is about?
Edit: It appears AdamH upvoted you, so, uh, I guess this IS the definition? Bummer. Do I need to create a "fun card interactions that need not necessary be probable to come up" thread, now?

That has been the definition all along.

One day, long ago I had a dream. This dream was that there would be a thread full of little combos that people could read through and add to their mental checklists so their game might improve.

Part of my dream was that these combos would appear in actual games of Dominion that were played. This probably means that they require only two cards to pull off.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #968 on: February 07, 2017, 06:49:03 am »
+4

Well, last time I checked, we weren't dictatorially bound to slavishly adhere to a thread's author's intent when posting. Wasn't that fact one of the reasons why Adam left in the first place?

*waves at AdamH, who apparently still lurks here for whatever reason*
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #969 on: February 07, 2017, 07:26:08 am »
+4

No, Adam left because he wanted the place to be moderated more heavily. Telling someone that their post is neither neat nor useful is valid, especially because there are multiple threads for "I did a nice thing and want to tell people about it".

Like, Palace + Silver and Gold gainer is not a neat interaction, it's explaining the Landmark....

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #970 on: February 07, 2017, 08:21:53 am »
+1

tfair+ferry+tmap is great, in one game I opened baron/ferry tmap, on turn 3 hit 6 from baron to topdeck two maps and get golds on turn 4.

It also requires three unique components.

I mean, the real interaction here is just the tfair and tmap, which won't be that uncommon. Under normal circumstances, that would take 10 money...and 10 money for 4 golds is a pretty good value. There are a ton of other cards which will make this combo easier to pull off though (such as ferry).

Its more general, as there are several combos on same principle. It needs cost reduction and top-decking. Ferry and stonemason are best as are always available, you could use quarry with reliable topdecking and maybe bridge.

For topdecking you could use tfair, watchtower and royal seal.

So there are more combos, some need more  support as they rely on two unreliable components.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #971 on: February 07, 2017, 11:07:38 am »
+7

Stonemason + Raze

Normally, Stonemason is bad to open with.  But, Raze changes that.  Opening with Stonemason + Raze x2 on $4 is really strong.  Ideally, the Razes trash Estates and the Stonemason trashes a Copper.  After a couple times through your deck, you can use a Raze to trash the Stonemason if you'd like.  Stonemason + Ratcatcher x2 is okay.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #972 on: February 11, 2017, 08:57:24 pm »
0


ambassador + wolf den

if you have a trim & strong engine vs. a sloggy thing and there isn't a way to prolong the game (provinces are low, you already gave them curses) you can send them copies of all the cards they don't have
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #973 on: February 12, 2017, 12:34:15 pm »
+15

Reposting combo from other thread: lurker-hunting grounds.

This is a rebuild on steroids. Uncontested  it pretty reliably gives you 30 points and three pile ending on turn 11.

Strategy is to buy lurkers and use them to get more lurkers until lurkers are out. Then buy estates and trash hunting grounds for duchies or estates. If contested when you couldn't get trashed lurker on same turn get hunting grounds.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #974 on: February 12, 2017, 07:12:28 pm »
+2

I've been playing around with Lurker/Hunting Grounds as well and I have a couple of points of improvement as well as a list of all the support cards that you could possibly think of and how well they actually work. I'll probably write an article or something about it unless someone else does it first.

At best, I've gotten it down to 6 turns with Donate and Catacombs. Even without any support, I think 11 turns is on the slower end of this crazyness; it happens a lot, but 10 turns happens a lot too and I think 9 turns is still more common than 12, although they both are rare.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #975 on: February 12, 2017, 07:52:41 pm »
+9

Too bad the combo isn't potentially useful any more if you add another card to it.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #976 on: February 13, 2017, 04:07:44 am »
+1

Keep + Black Market

Keep adds extra incentive to buy that Venture or Harem you stumble upon in the Black Market deck.

In contrast to trying to remember how many more silvers/coppers you have than your opponent in the endgame, picking up a treasure from the Black Market gives you 5 quick VP you (usually) don't need to worry about losing.

Related: Keep + Humble Castle, as posted above by Erick.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #977 on: February 13, 2017, 06:25:23 am »
+2

Too bad the combo isn't potentially useful any more if you add another card to it.

It is potentially useful, because you don't have to add another card to it. But there are going to be 8 other kingdom cards and sometimes Events or Landmarks in addition to the combo though, and since it's probably the best strategy on the board every time, it's good to know which cards could be relevant and which cards couldn't.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #978 on: February 13, 2017, 08:01:53 am »
+6

Too bad the combo isn't potentially useful any more if you add another card to it.

It is potentially useful, because you don't have to add another card to it. But there are going to be 8 other kingdom cards and sometimes Events or Landmarks in addition to the combo though, and since it's probably the best strategy on the board every time, it's good to know which cards could be relevant and which cards couldn't.

Sorry guys; we had it all wrong! It turns out the objective standard for an interaction being posted on this thread is if Awaclus likes enough to ignore a rule he decides to rigidly enforce on every combo he doesn't like.

Aren't we all having fun this way? Isn't FDS a better place because of this?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #979 on: February 13, 2017, 09:29:52 am »
0

Sorry guys; we had it all wrong! It turns out the objective standard for an interaction being posted on this thread is if Awaclus likes enough to ignore a rule he decides to rigidly enforce on every combo he doesn't like.

Aren't we all having fun this way? Isn't FDS a better place because of this?

Did you even read the post you were replying to?

Interaction that requires 2 cards -> potentially useful
Interaction that requires 3 cards -> not potentially useful

Lurker/Hunting Grounds is the former.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #980 on: February 13, 2017, 10:28:26 am »
0

Sorry guys; we had it all wrong! It turns out the objective standard for an interaction being posted on this thread is if Awaclus likes enough to ignore a rule he decides to rigidly enforce on every combo he doesn't like.

Aren't we all having fun this way? Isn't FDS a better place because of this?

Did you even read the post you were replying to?

Interaction that requires 2 cards -> potentially useful
Interaction that requires 3 cards -> not potentially useful

Lurker/Hunting Grounds is the former.

You've yelled the same criticisms at interactions that worked with only two of the mentioned cards as soon as people start discussing more than two of them. At least be vaguely consistent if you're going to rigidly police content like this.

I mean, we would really all prefer you just not, honestly, but whatever.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #981 on: February 13, 2017, 10:49:13 am »
0

You've yelled the same criticisms at interactions that worked with only two of the mentioned cards as soon as people start discussing more than two of them.

That's interesting, this is the first time I'm hearing about that. When exactly did that happen?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #982 on: February 13, 2017, 11:21:46 am »
0

What constitutes a "potentially useful" interaction can't be too rigid. There are cases where in the average case a 2-card combo/synergy is really strong but depending on the board it might not be useful after all.

Say, Quarry/Stonemason is quite crazy, unless there are no Action cards other than Stonemason in the supply or at least no cards you care to have in multiples. Similarly, Quarry/Talisman is weak in those same situations. We can't assume extreme (1%-5%?) supply composition cases for this thread or we won't get anywhere.

For Lurker + Hunting Grounds in particular, I think it is fine to consider it valid here because the pure Lurker + Hunting Grounds combo/synergy is already so strong. Or so I assume. Is the pure 2-card rush favoured vs. big money?

Any talk of synergies to improve Lurker + Hunting Grounds that is more than a line or two definitely doesn't belong in this thread though, going by the "potentially useful" condition. A separate topic could be made for that.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #983 on: February 13, 2017, 11:27:19 am »
+2

Any talk of synergies to improve Lurker + Hunting Grounds that is more than a line or two definitely doesn't belong in this thread though, going by the "potentially useful" condition. A separate topic could be made for that.
On the other hand, it is no problem if a thread about card interactions contains more posts about the definition of "neat and potentially useful" than actual discussion of card interactions, and there is no need to separate that in a different thread.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #984 on: February 13, 2017, 11:50:04 am »
0

Any talk of synergies to improve Lurker + Hunting Grounds that is more than a line or two definitely doesn't belong in this thread though, going by the "potentially useful" condition. A separate topic could be made for that.
On the other hand, it is no problem if a thread about card interactions contains more posts about the definition of "neat and potentially useful" than actual discussion of card interactions, and there is no need to separate that in a different thread.

"Need"? No.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #985 on: February 13, 2017, 12:25:00 pm »
+1

Villa + Pilgrimage
This had probably been mentioned somewhere before but gaining 2 extra cards along with your Villa can be nice if you can play them on the same turn.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #986 on: February 13, 2017, 12:27:09 pm »
+3

Neat and potentially useful card interactions:

Neat card interaction:
Save / Caravan Guard - You can save your Caravan Guard repeatedly so that you're always ready to react to an attack!

Potentially useful card interaction:
Moat / Witch - You can block Witch with a Moat!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #987 on: February 13, 2017, 02:11:48 pm »
+1

Potentially useful card interaction:
Moat / Witch - You can block Witch with a Moat!

Can someone put together an article for this one? It sounds really potentially useful.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #988 on: February 13, 2017, 02:30:32 pm »
+1

Potentially useful card interaction:
Moat / Witch - You can block Witch with a Moat!

Can someone put together an article for this one? It sounds really potentially useful.

An important trick is to skip Witch yourself, that way your Moat has more chances to be useful.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #989 on: February 13, 2017, 02:45:46 pm »
+2

Raid + Tower.  This likely only works well if it's mostly uncontested, but it's a net 30+ points if you can get that pile emptied... which is easy to do with Raid.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #990 on: February 13, 2017, 02:55:00 pm »
+14

Guys, I just noticed the OP specifically asks for interactions between two cards. I'm sorry, but this means you need to stop posting those Event- and Landmark combos.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #991 on: February 13, 2017, 07:09:46 pm »
+9

Guys, I just noticed the OP specifically asks for interactions between two cards. I'm sorry, but this means you need to stop posting those Event- and Landmark combos.

Ace of Spades-Ace of Hearts is an awesome Texas Hold'Em hand.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #992 on: February 14, 2017, 11:53:16 am »
+3

Ferry/Cultist is horrifying
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #993 on: February 14, 2017, 12:56:12 pm »
+5

Guys, I just noticed the OP specifically asks for interactions between two cards. I'm sorry, but this means you need to stop posting those Event- and Landmark combos.

Ace of Spades-Ace of Hearts is an awesome Texas Hold'Em hand.
Yeah but that would NEVER happen.  Jeez why are you even talking about this.   ;D
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #994 on: February 14, 2017, 02:04:28 pm »
+1

Ferry/Cultist is horrifying

And then you can Seaway it!

(please don't argue about me adding a third card)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #995 on: February 14, 2017, 02:05:20 pm »
+5

Ferry/Cultist is horrifying

And then you can Seaway it!

(please don't argue about me adding a third card)

We can't argue, since it's an Event.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #996 on: February 15, 2017, 02:31:15 am »
+5

Trader in hand turns Traveling Fair into a Delve whose Silver you can topdeck.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #997 on: February 15, 2017, 04:44:15 pm »
+2

Trader in hand turns Traveling Fair into a Delve whose Silver you can topdeck.

Trader, Traveling Fair, and Silver? That's a three-card combo. No Go. After all, who hasn't played a kingdom where some doofus forgot to bring the base cards to game night?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #998 on: February 15, 2017, 05:51:37 pm »
+6

Hmm,
Treasure Map, Graverobber, Village
If your tmaps miss, but you collide this combo, play it anyways and then gain it back from the trash, topdecking it for another shot!
Also works:
Treasure Map, Lurker, Watchtower
For this one it's easier to keep one map in the trash (from lurker maybe), then when the time is right, fish it out and topeck it! What's even better is, when you collide the maps, you can use watchtower to topdeck the golds.

Apprentice, Rogue, Native Village
Here's the scenario: You're playng a thin engine that's started to green, so you decided to to hammer the Duchy pile. You can't take much more green or you'll start to choke, but fortunately there is NV pseudo-trash. So you apprentice your duchies, helping you draw your deck even with added green, then rogue them back to your discard pile to stash away on the NV mat. It's criticall we use apprentice as the tfb here as it needss to be nonterminal: using a terminal trasher would take too much terminal space and hinder the viability of this combo.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 06:08:14 pm by tailred »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #999 on: February 15, 2017, 06:52:26 pm »
+10

when you collide the maps, you can use watchtower to topdeck the golds.

Not sure if trolling...

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1000 on: February 15, 2017, 07:18:39 pm »
+5

Treasure Map, Lurker, Watchtower
For this one it's easier to keep one map in the trash (from lurker maybe), then when the time is right, fish it out and topeck it! What's even better is, when you collide the maps, you can use watchtower to topdeck the golds.

Even better than that, use Watchtower to trash the Golds.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1001 on: February 15, 2017, 08:06:09 pm »
+6

when you collide the maps, you can use watchtower to topdeck the golds.

Not sure if trolling...

Or just gain Silvers instead with Trader. Combo Treasure Map/Trader.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1002 on: February 15, 2017, 08:07:11 pm »
+8

Storyteller, Diadem, Storeroom, Travelling Fair
Turn coin into draw, or draw into coin, then actions into coin, or actions into coin while you turn coin into draw turning actions into even more draw, then in the end turn all the draw back into coin? Or turn the draw into coin first then back into draw, effectively cellaring TWICE? (cwazy!) Then, in the end, turn all that coin into buy, letting you buy all the copper (which, if you look carefully, is just another way of turning draw into coin, but nonterminally - wow!) you want!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1003 on: February 16, 2017, 08:49:17 am »
+4

Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, and has come up a few times recently in League games and game reports:

Develop + Fortress

It turns out that gaining and topdecking a $5 card and a $3 card is often really strong - even by Fortress trash-for-benefit standards.  And because Fortress is in the kingdom, you will be able to play multiple Develops per turn.  This interaction often dominates games it appears in, so don't ignore it!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1004 on: February 16, 2017, 09:48:55 am »
+1

Storyteller, Diadem, Storeroom, Travelling Fair
Turn coin into draw, or draw into coin, then actions into coin, or actions into coin while you turn coin into draw turning actions into even more draw, then in the end turn all the draw back into coin? Or turn the draw into coin first then back into draw, effectively cellaring TWICE? (cwazy!) Then, in the end, turn all that coin into buy, letting you buy all the copper (which, if you look carefully, is just another way of turning draw into coin, but nonterminally - wow!) you want!

A parody is only as good as it is accurate, you know. I fail to see what or whom you'r making fun of here.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1005 on: February 16, 2017, 12:26:44 pm »
+8

A parody is only as good as it is accurate, you know. I fail to see what or whom you'r making fun of here.
There coulndn't be any making fun. The license for making fun had expired
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1006 on: February 22, 2017, 01:46:24 am »
+3

Fool's Gold + Travelling Fair is pretty neat and useful. Once you manage to hit $6, you can all but guarantee that you can buy and topdeck two FGs every turn until you draw a hand with 3 FGs, after which you can actually guarantee triple FG turns until the FGs run out (although it's pretty likely that your opponent will be contesting FGs and that the pile is emptied before you get to the point of getting constant triple FG turns). Travelling Fair is also a convenient way to utilize FG's high economy boost if you still want to continue building the deck afterwards.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 01:49:28 am by Awaclus »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1007 on: February 22, 2017, 07:55:42 pm »
0

Keep and ...
Masterpiece with some drawers
Trader trashing a Province
Treasure Hunter, while your right player building an engine
Raid with some drawers (with +Buy is best)
Feodum with some trashers
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1008 on: February 24, 2017, 11:45:20 am »
0

Keep and ...
Masterpiece with some drawers
Trader trashing a Province
Treasure Hunter, while your right player building an engine
Raid with some drawers (with +Buy is best)
Feodum with some trashers

I don't know...most of those sound like nombos. Keep is only worth 5 points per pile, so winning big on the Silvers, for example, can give you some bonus points, but the person that ignores the Silver points will just win with extra Provinces and a couple of Golds.

The combos that I really like with Keep are any time there's only one copy (or really limited numbers) of a treasure. Black Market being the big example. "Sure I'll buy a Venture that's also worth 5 points!"
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1009 on: February 24, 2017, 12:20:17 pm »
+1

Keep and ...
Masterpiece with some drawers
Trader trashing a Province
Treasure Hunter, while your right player building an engine
Raid with some drawers (with +Buy is best)
Feodum with some trashers

I don't know...most of those sound like nombos. Keep is only worth 5 points per pile, so winning big on the Silvers, for example, can give you some bonus points, but the person that ignores the Silver points will just win with extra Provinces and a couple of Golds.

The combos that I really like with Keep are any time there's only one copy (or really limited numbers) of a treasure. Black Market being the big example. "Sure I'll buy a Venture that's also worth 5 points!"

I wonder how it affects the Tournament choice. Would you ever consider Diadem as a first prize because of Keep? I'm guessing no, but it might become second after Followers (if there was no other cursing).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1010 on: February 24, 2017, 12:26:07 pm »
0

Keep and ...
Masterpiece with some drawers
Trader trashing a Province
Treasure Hunter, while your right player building an engine
Raid with some drawers (with +Buy is best)
Feodum with some trashers

I don't know...most of those sound like nombos. Keep is only worth 5 points per pile, so winning big on the Silvers, for example, can give you some bonus points, but the person that ignores the Silver points will just win with extra Provinces and a couple of Golds.

The combos that I really like with Keep are any time there's only one copy (or really limited numbers) of a treasure. Black Market being the big example. "Sure I'll buy a Venture that's also worth 5 points!"

I wonder how it affects the Tournament choice. Would you ever consider Diadem as a first prize because of Keep? I'm guessing no, but it might become second after Followers (if there was no other cursing).

Followers should usually not be the first Prize, and if it should, it's because of the discard attack, not because of the cursing (it junks you just as much). Usually it should be Princess or Trusty Steed that you're going for first.

I don't know...most of those sound like nombos. Keep is only worth 5 points per pile, so winning big on the Silvers, for example, can give you some bonus points, but the person that ignores the Silver points will just win with extra Provinces and a couple of Golds.

You don't need to win big, you just need to win by one. That's a 10 point swing, i.e. absolutely worth going for, especially in the case of Masterpiece since Masterpiece itself is another 10 point swing if your opponent ignores it. However, most of those sound like not potentially useful due to the very specific situation requirements.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1011 on: April 04, 2017, 05:34:51 am »
+7

Miser + Fountain lets you get rid of your Coppers and still get the 15.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1012 on: April 04, 2017, 09:18:57 am »
+1

Artificer/Poor House is actually pretty good. You basically get to gain cards and still get coins for them. You can add villages or more Poor Houses and Artificers if you need mid-turn.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1013 on: April 11, 2017, 06:15:20 pm »
+2

Engineer / Travelling Fair
Turn 1: Buy Travelling Fair, buy and topdeck Engineer.
Turn 2: Play Engineer.  Pay off debt, and you can even buy a second Engineer.

You can do this regardless of your initial shuffle.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1014 on: June 11, 2017, 12:33:29 pm »
+2

Alms + Bridge

With Alms, you can always open double Bridge.  With Alms, whenever you play a single Bridge you can gain a $5 card and a $2 card.  If you can get multiple Bridges into play, this synergy gets even stronger.  This synergy is probably the best way to build if there are other good engine components on the board.  An action splitter costing $5 or less is probably essential, trashing and/or draw (especially non-terminal) help a bunch.

markus recently crushed me in a game with Alms + Bridge.  There was also Tactician, Patrician, and Village for additional synergy.  This synergy was so strong, it was correct to ignore Cultist and Wharf!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1015 on: June 16, 2017, 11:52:34 pm »
+6

It was posted before, but Remake-Villa is neat. You can trash $3 -> Villa, then trash the gained Villa -> $5, which lets you play Remake as nonterminal Remodel on $3 costs if you need to.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1016 on: June 17, 2017, 10:47:25 pm »
+1

Just played a Diplomat + Forager game. It was beautiful.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1017 on: June 26, 2017, 09:55:04 am »
+3

Gear + Encampment

If you open double Gear, there's a ~40% chance to be able to buy an Encampment and a Gold on turns 3 and 4 (and a near certainty to be able to get a Gold by turn 5).  Going forward, you can alternate Encampment buys with more expensive buys (probably $5+ terminals - Gold if there's nothing better) until the Encampments are gone.  You can easily save Gold and/or Encampments to guarantee that you kick off the next turn.  If there's nothing better on the board, you can build to playing as many Plunders as possible and buying Province each turn, but there's almost always something better.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1018 on: June 28, 2017, 10:02:45 am »
+1

Patrol/Venture

If you're playing BM, Patrol lets you set up just the right treasures for your Ventures to hit.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1019 on: July 03, 2017, 04:29:47 pm »
0

Patrol/Venture

If you're playing BM, Patrol lets you set up just the right treasures for your Ventures to hit.

That's neat but what ratio of Patrols-to-Ventures do you want, and what order to buy them, etc.?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1020 on: July 03, 2017, 06:08:52 pm »
0

Patrol/Venture

If you're playing BM, Patrol lets you set up just the right treasures for your Ventures to hit.

That's neat but what ratio of Patrols-to-Ventures do you want, and what order to buy them, etc.?

Well, you're playing BM so you probably want like 1-2 Patrols and Ventures on the other $5 turns.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1021 on: July 04, 2017, 01:39:47 am »
+4

Farmland + Fortress: If you have a Fortress in hand during your Buy phase, you can spend $6 to gain 2 Farmlands, repeatedly. This usually isn't that useful, but if you have the money, it lets you empty the Farmland pile in 4 buys, and sometimes you're buy-constrained instead of money-constrained.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1022 on: July 04, 2017, 02:45:40 pm »
+4

Haggler + Ill-Gotten Gains

Haggler can't gain victory cards but that doesn't mean it can't effectively gain you points. I had a game yesterday with strong trashing so IGG was pointless and not gained for most of the game. On my last turn I bought the last 2 Provinces using the 2 Hagglers I had in play to gain 4 IGGs giving my opponent 4 curses. I won the game by 3 points.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1023 on: July 05, 2017, 05:22:36 pm »
+2

Governor/Mountain Pass

A Governor deck is often able to win without buying a card after it is set up, so you can bid all 40 debt on the first Province gain. You should make sure your opponent is the first to go for Provinces.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 05:26:34 pm by faust »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1024 on: July 05, 2017, 05:37:19 pm »
+5

You should make sure your opponent is the first to go for Provinces.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1025 on: July 11, 2017, 10:24:22 pm »
+11

Gear/Plan

Get rid of those pesky Estates while you pick up your three Gears.

I've been playing around with this lately.  It's really strong as a standalone money strategy (if there aren't crippling attacks or good engine Alt VP).  It's extraordinarily consistent - more so than any money strategy I've played.

Turn 1: Plan on Gear.
Turn 2: Buy Gear and trash Estate.
Your deck is exactly 7 Copper, 2 Estates, and a Gear.

Over the next 4 turns, your goals are (in priority order):
1) Buy two Gears and trash two Estates.
2) Buy two Golds.
There is a very high likelihood (~86.5%) that you will accomplish these goals.

There are exactly three failure cases:
A. You draw 5 Copper on turn 3. (Likelihood: 8.3%)
B. You draw 3 Copper and 2 Estates on turn 3 (buying Gear and trashing Estate).  Then, your turn 4 Gear draws Copper and Gear. (Likelihood: 4.2%)
C. You draw 4 Copper and a Gear and draw 2 Copper on turn 3 (buying Gold).  Then, you draw 1 Gold, 2 Copper, and 2 Estates on turn 4 (buying Gear and trashing Estate).  Then, you draw 5 Copper on turn 5 or Gear draws Gear. (Likelihood: < 1%)
These are not catastrophic failures.  In each of these cases, you should probably buy a Gear and trash Copper.  Now you spend the rest of the game with one more Estate and one fewer Copper than usual.  This might even help in the mirror (though you're disadvantaged if it comes to Duchy-dancing).

Turns 7+: Buy Province when able, buy a third Gold on the first miss.
I tested this out and consistently got 5 Provinces by turn 12.  After that, the deck starts to falter, but you can go in for Duchies or save up for Provinces depending on the game state.
In a mirror, it might make sense to skip the third Gold and go for Duchies immediately.  Maybe.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1026 on: July 21, 2017, 12:09:33 pm »
0

Gear/Plan

Get rid of those pesky Estates while you pick up your three Gears.

I've been playing around with this lately.  It's really strong as a standalone money strategy (if there aren't crippling attacks or good engine Alt VP).  It's extraordinarily consistent - more so than any money strategy I've played.

I am not sure if this beats triple gear. It could win in 60% by having extra turn/estate vp to offset 40% of bad luck.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1027 on: July 24, 2017, 11:51:38 pm »
+5

I am not sure if this beats triple gear. It could win in 60% by having extra turn/estate vp to offset 40% of bad luck.

Could be.  I expect it wouldn't be too hard to simulate.

I've got another two-card synergy that can work well as a standalone strategy: Counting House + Scouting Party
(Hat tip to Dan Brooks.)

The gist of the strategy is to buy two Counting Houses and alternate playing them and guaranteeing you have one in your next hand with a full discard pile.  When you play Counting House, you should choose to draw all minus C Coppers, where C = 8 - N, where N is the number of non-Copper cards in your discard pile.  Then, buy Scouting Party, triggering a shuffle and leaving 5 cards (including a Counting House) on your deck.  Buy a Province or Duchy with the remaining money, rinse and repeat.  This strategy is bolstered by a way to get more copper early (especially Beggar, but there are lesser synergies).  But, the strategy is pretty strong without any other kingdom cards:

Turns 1-6: Buy Silver x4 and Counting House x2.  Prefer to buy the Counting Houses last (potentially even if you have $5 early).  If you get unlucky with a $2 hand, buy a Copper and optionally Scouting Party.  If you open with $5, buy a Scouting Party and Silver.
Turn 7: You'll have 5 cards in your hand and 11 in your deck.  Buy Scouting Party twice, making sure that you have one Counting House in your hand or discard pile.  Buy a Copper.
Turn 8-12: Play Counting House, draw all minus C Coppers, where C = 8 - N, where N is the number of non-Copper cards in your discard pile.  Buy a Province or Duchy.
Turns 13+: Once you have more than 8 non-Copper cards in your discard pile, you'll need to choose between risking a hand with no Counting House (and buying a Province) or buying Scouting Party twice while taking fewer Copper (and buying a Duchy, presumably).  Hopefully the game is almost over.

It's not uncommon to get 4 Provinces and a Duchy by turn 12.  This strategy is mostly unaffected by discard attacks.  Junking attacks actually help in turns 8-11, but they'll hurt both before (if relevant) and after.  This strategy is completely foiled by any cards that can trigger a reshuffle.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1028 on: July 25, 2017, 01:37:11 am »
+4

Some of these are old.

In IGG rush games, Triumph almost always gives more points than Duchy because it counts the Coppers you gain from IGG.

Upgrade-Fortress: if you draw your deck, and have 2 Upgrades in hand + a Fortress in hand, you can empty the Upgrades in a single turn, and then next turn use Upgrade to gain tons of Duchies off your Fortress. You lose very fast if you don't have a plan against this.

Scrying Pool-Peasant line: Scrying Pool is an attack, which makes Soldiers give tons of money. Teacher gives you a way to get enough Actions and Buys to use all the money you can get.

Rats-Watchtower: Gets you thin very quickly. If you have both in hand and trash the Rats you gain, it's close to "+2 Cards, +1 Action, trash a card from your hand." This is nuts and is worth going for even if you don't have any other way to trash Rats.

Trader-Death Cart: Gaining Death Cart + 2 Silver for $4 is a pretty great deal, if it's the type of game where you want Silvers. This may be competitive with fast engines but I've never tried timing it.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1029 on: July 25, 2017, 12:08:46 pm »
0


Trader-Death Cart: Gaining Death Cart + 2 Silver for $4 is a pretty great deal, if it's the type of game where you want Silvers. This may be competitive with fast engines but I've never tried timing it.

Same goes for trader-cache
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1030 on: July 25, 2017, 12:30:14 pm »
0

Gear/Plan

Get rid of those pesky Estates while you pick up your three Gears.

I've been playing around with this lately.  It's really strong as a standalone money strategy (if there aren't crippling attacks or good engine Alt VP).  It's extraordinarily consistent - more so than any money strategy I've played.

I am not sure if this beats triple gear. It could win in 60% by having extra turn/estate vp to offset 40% of bad luck.

This totally beats Triple Gear. Otherwise you are essentially saying a Silver is better for Gear BM than trashing three Estates without using any Actions. Not having that second Gear on the first shuffle isn't really fatal - it usually misses the second shuffle anyway.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1031 on: July 25, 2017, 12:33:37 pm »
+2

Trader-Death Cart: Gaining Death Cart + 2 Silver for $4 is a pretty great deal, if it's the type of game where you want Silvers. This may be competitive with fast engines but I've never tried timing it.

Well, you're not really gaining it for $4 since you need to leave a $4 costing card in your hand in order to do it, so it's more comparable to paying $4P for it. Of course, the Trader is also useful on its own, so it's better than that.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1032 on: July 25, 2017, 02:47:53 pm »
0

I am not sure if this beats triple gear. It could win in 60% by having extra turn/estate vp to offset 40% of bad luck.

I've got another two-card synergy that can work well as a standalone strategy: Counting House + Scouting Party
(Hat tip to Dan Brooks.)

The gist of the strategy is to buy two Counting Houses and alternate playing them and guaranteeing you have one in your next hand with a full discard pile.  When you play Counting House, you should choose to draw all minus C Coppers, where C = 8 - N, where N is the number of non-Copper cards in your discard pile.  Then, buy Scouting Party, triggering a shuffle and leaving 5 cards (including a Counting House) on your deck.  Buy a Province or Duchy with the remaining money, rinse and repeat.  This strategy is bolstered by a way to get more copper early (especially Beggar, but there are lesser synergies).  But, the strategy is pretty strong without any other kingdom cards:

This gets even better with Beggar.

Turn 1 and Turn 2, open Beggar/Beggar + Scouting Party
Turn 3 and Turn 4, play Beggars, buy two Counting Houses (prioritize these over the second Beggar if you are lucky enough to play a turn 2 Beggar)
Turn 5, use Scouting Party to topdeck a Counting House near the bottom of the shuffle, buy a copper
Turn 6+, play Counting House, take enough copper to leave exactly 8 cards in deck + discard, buy Scouting Party once to topdeck a Counting House on a 5 card deck, and buy Province

Looks like a Province every turn 6-13. Faster than most money strategies. An example of 6 provinces on turn 11 is here: #5453546.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1033 on: August 05, 2017, 05:04:27 am »
+1

Bit of an obvious one, but Lurker + Procession. You can keep playing the same Processions over and over again and gain a ton of cards in the process.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1034 on: August 08, 2017, 11:03:55 am »
+2

Probably well-known but Herbalist-Capital is pretty wow.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1035 on: August 08, 2017, 02:55:38 pm »
0

Governor/Mountain Pass

A Governor deck is often able to win without buying a card after it is set up, so you can bid all 40 debt on the first Province gain. You should make sure your opponent is the first to go for Provinces.

Just had this combo, forgot to let opponent take the first one, but they literally didn't bid for it at all. 8 VP for 1 debt, I'll take it.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1036 on: August 12, 2017, 07:34:35 am »
+8

Procession + Duplicate is pretty neat. You play Procession on Duplicate, Duplicate reserves itself, Procession loses track of it, then you gain a $5 Action and may call Duplicate to gain a copy of it.

I guess you could say that Procession has that synergy with any Reserve card, but it's not particularly useful for most of them. Wine Merchant is another noteworthy one.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 07:36:22 am by Awaclus »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1037 on: August 12, 2017, 10:23:58 am »
0

Procession + Duplicate
Got demolished by that recently

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1038 on: August 31, 2017, 09:29:02 am »
+4

Rebuild/Castles

It's fairly interesting how Rebuild interacts with the Castle pile. You can use them as alternative stepping stones to Province, and on the way you grab the on-gain bonuses from Crumbling, Haunted and (potentially) Grand Castle.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 02:21:04 am by faust »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1039 on: August 31, 2017, 10:58:43 am »
0

Rebuild/Castles

It fairly interesting how Rebuild interacts with the Castle pile. You can use them as alternative stepping stones to Province, and on the way you grab the on-gain bonuses from Crumbling, Haunted and (potentially) Grand Castle.

I just had one of these. I lost, but it was certainly one of the more interesting Rebuild games I've had.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1040 on: August 31, 2017, 11:30:20 am »
0

Rebuild/Castles

It fairly interesting how Rebuild interacts with the Castle pile. You can use them as alternative stepping stones to Province, and on the way you grab the on-gain bonuses from Crumbling, Haunted and (potentially) Grand Castle.
And, gain the on-trash bonus of Crumbling!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1041 on: September 01, 2017, 04:01:21 am »
+4

Harbinger with Envoy or Advisor is moderately useful for obvious reasons.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1042 on: September 01, 2017, 11:48:00 am »
0

I had a good time with Port/Pathfinding/Windfall the other day. (I used the Golds as fodder for my Catapult and Bishop. I don't think I played it optimally, but hey, my opponent resigned, so.)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1043 on: September 18, 2017, 04:01:16 am »
+4

Just had an interesting Rebuild game (yes it happens!) with two synergies:

Rebuild/Secret Passage
Lets you put the green in your hand right where you want it for Rebuild. Or you can just skip over it.

Rebuild/Triumph
playing 2 Rebuilds and then buying Triumph gives a nice little VP boost and more Rebuild fodder.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1044 on: September 21, 2017, 04:48:35 pm »
0

Just had an interesting Rebuild game (yes it happens!) with two synergies:

Rebuild/Secret Passage
Lets you put the green in your hand right where you want it for Rebuild. Or you can just skip over it.

Rebuild/Triumph
playing 2 Rebuilds and then buying Triumph gives a nice little VP boost and more Rebuild fodder.

Scavenger also works nicely with Rebuild, allowing you to topdeck a Rebuild for next turn, speeding up rebuild plays.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1045 on: September 22, 2017, 08:55:17 am »
0

Caravan Guard is a pretty cool bane. If you have more than one in your hand, you can react with all except one, then reveal the last one as a bane.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1046 on: September 22, 2017, 10:00:07 am »
0

Caravan Guard is a pretty cool bane. If you have more than one in your hand, you can react with all except one, then reveal the last one as a bane.

Isn't that more of a nombo? You can't use the CG for both its own ability and to protect you from YW.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1047 on: September 22, 2017, 12:05:21 pm »
+1

So what's the best bane? Tunnel looks pretty good: it synergises with your own Young Witch on your turn, while defending you against opponents' on theirs.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1048 on: September 22, 2017, 12:30:16 pm »
+6

So what's the best bane? Tunnel looks pretty good: it synergises with your own Young Witch on your turn, while defending you against opponents' on theirs.

Scheme.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1049 on: September 22, 2017, 12:36:16 pm »
0

Chapel is arguably better than Scheme.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1050 on: September 22, 2017, 12:37:34 pm »
0

Chapel is arguably better than Scheme.

True!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1051 on: September 22, 2017, 12:38:14 pm »
+1

So what's the best bane?

Define "best"
is it:
"synergizes with your own witches"
"discourages people from buying young witch"
"given that your opponent is likely to buy young witch, this offers you the best defense"
"has the perfect balance of power that it causes you to need some, but feel a bit disappointed at the opportunity cost"
"has a great feel of play and counterplay"

Personally, I like Guide and Ratcatcher a ton as banes for the bolded reason.  There is tension in wanting to save them for the ideal situation versus wanting to get them back in your deck.  Also, the fact that they are reserves means you generally need to play more of them to be effective. 
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1052 on: September 22, 2017, 12:43:47 pm »
0

Given that Young Witch is in the kingdom and the card itself is the bane, what's the most powerful card? That's how I've always understood the question.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1053 on: September 22, 2017, 07:34:41 pm »
0

So what's the best bane?
Define "best"
Uh... hmm...

"Synergises best as Bane from the perspective of someone buying it", maybe? I'm definitely not asking what the best $3-or-lower card is; it's got to be something that particularly benefits from its interaction with Young Witch, as the person with Young Witch and/or as the person attacked.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1054 on: September 22, 2017, 07:36:14 pm »
+3

Incidentally, if a Dominion Set, promo, reprint of Cornucopia, etc. ever has a card to spare and an artist with time on their hands, it would be nice to have a "Bane" card you can tuck under the supply pile.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1055 on: September 22, 2017, 11:57:55 pm »
+11

Incidentally, if a Dominion Set, promo, reprint of Cornucopia, etc. ever has a card to spare and an artist with time on their hands, it would be nice to have a "Bane" card you can tuck under the supply pile.
Work is underway on the eventual prettier reprint of Guilds/Cornucopia, and we are planning on including a Bane card.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1056 on: September 23, 2017, 01:30:45 am »
+9

Baths + Debt

It's more okay to buy high-Debt cards early if Baths is in the game, because you can get 2 VP on the turn you're paying off the debt. I recently lost a game because I bid too low on Mountain Pass, thinking that it was worth 8 VP. With Baths in the game, it was actually worth 10 VP.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1057 on: September 25, 2017, 11:43:17 am »
+1

Baths + Debt

It's more okay to buy high-Debt cards early if Baths is in the game, because you can get 2 VP on the turn you're paying off the debt. I recently lost a game because I bid too low on Mountain Pass, thinking that it was worth 8 VP. With Baths in the game, it was actually worth 10 VP.

Now the real question is, if Empires hadn't had the debt mechanic, would Baths have survived playtesting? Or would it just be too niche?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1058 on: September 25, 2017, 02:35:02 pm »
+3

Baths + Debt

It's more okay to buy high-Debt cards early if Baths is in the game, because you can get 2 VP on the turn you're paying off the debt. I recently lost a game because I bid too low on Mountain Pass, thinking that it was worth 8 VP. With Baths in the game, it was actually worth 10 VP.

Now the real question is, if Empires hadn't had the debt mechanic, would Baths have survived playtesting? Or would it just be too niche?
The obvious thing is, we could have tried changing "gained" to "bought."
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1059 on: September 25, 2017, 04:22:07 pm »
+2

Rats can function as a way to discard junk from your hand for Lookout, Sentry or other purposes.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1060 on: September 27, 2017, 09:10:27 am »
0

Rats can function as a way to discard junk from your hand for Lookout, Sentry or other purposes.

Especially nice with Doctor, since you know what the junk is going to be.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1061 on: September 27, 2017, 02:24:03 pm »
+4

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but gaining Sir Martin with Messenger is nice.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1062 on: September 27, 2017, 05:44:43 pm »
+2

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but gaining Sir Martin with Messenger is nice.
I think somebody mentioned Messenger with Castles. Different pile, same idea.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1063 on: September 29, 2017, 10:26:50 pm »
+1

Marauder / Cultist + Wolf Den: since there are 5 unique Ruins you can reduce your opponent's score considerably if you're lucky.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1064 on: September 30, 2017, 01:43:31 am »
+1

Stonemason / Sacrifice. Just load up on both. Especially in the lack of other villages.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1065 on: September 30, 2017, 02:34:12 am »
0

Stonemason / Sacrifice. Just load up on both. Especially in the lack of other villages.

How does that work? By itself it doesn't seem that great, without other +Actions I can see it being important.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1066 on: September 30, 2017, 02:37:14 am »
0

Stonemason / Sacrifice. Just load up on both. Especially in the lack of other villages.

How does that work? By itself it doesn't seem that great, without other +Actions I can see it being important.

You gain a ton of cards at a cheap cost and then you get rid of the Stonemasons while getting something very useful out of it.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1067 on: September 30, 2017, 07:11:38 pm »
+1

I looked for this being mentioned in this thread. Hasn't been mentioned here, although probably has been mentioned elsewhere. Maybe even in an article somewhere...

In games where there is no other trashing:
Watchtower and Rats
Don't use very many Rats when you do not have a Watchtower in hand. If you do have a Watchtower in hand, Rats become a Lab that trashes a card (but they can't trash the second card drawn.)
In the game I found this, Witch and Training were also available. I took several curses from my opponent, but then my Trained Witches drew cards to fill my hand, the Rats trashed the curses and other shrapnel while acting as Labs themselves and I was able to win fairly easily.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1068 on: September 30, 2017, 07:31:48 pm »
0

Gosh. I'd have expected the Rats to run out fairly quickly with that strategy, even with twenty rather than ten. And then the Watchtower trick would stop being useful. )-8
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1069 on: October 02, 2017, 11:37:09 am »
+3

Highway is a great counter to Enchantress.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1070 on: October 02, 2017, 12:33:39 pm »
+2

Highway is a great counter to Enchantress.

Nice.

Related question: does Enchantress effectively turn Bridge Troll into a Highway?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1071 on: October 02, 2017, 01:25:57 pm »
+1

Highway is a great counter to Enchantress.

Nice.

Related question: does Enchantress effectively turn Bridge Troll into a Highway?

Yes.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1072 on: October 02, 2017, 06:00:44 pm »
+1

Highway is a great counter to Enchantress.

And so is Groundskeeper.

If you do have a Watchtower in hand, Rats become a Lab that trashes a card (but they can't trash the second card drawn.)

It can trash the second card, actually. The Rats-gaining happens before the trashing. So yeah, it's exactly the same as a trashing Lab. Also, in regards to whether this combo was mentioned before, I think pretty much every single Watchtower combo ever is mentioned in liopoil's excellent article, including this one.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 06:10:13 pm by Commodore Chuckles »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1073 on: October 15, 2017, 01:50:46 pm »
+5

Sentry + Vassal

HappyFish recently beat me with this strong Base 2nd Edition synergy.  Even in the absence of a village, Sentry can help set up safe Vassal plays while thinning your deck of junk cards.  This synergy is pretty strong without support.  Open Vassal + Silver and get Sentries as quickly as possible (at least 3).  Use Sentries to trash your starting cards, but also use them to line up Vassal into another Sentry, so you can keep playing non-terminal Vassals.  Once you have 3+ Sentries and 4 Vassals (or 3 Vassals and a Silver), you can start greening.  If you dud, pick up an additional Sentry.  This strategy is pretty fast, greening beginning around turn 9 and getting 6 Provinces in 14-15 turns.  This strategy scales up to Colony and Dominate pretty handily, though the Sentry and Vassal piles might be contested in those cases.  There are a bunch of cards that can improve the strategy; most $2-4 cantrips will be better than Silver, though non-terminal +buy is the best.  This strategy is also very resistant to handsize and junking attacks.  HappyFish was able to shrug off my Mountebank attack by investing in a couple extra Sentries.  Being forced to discard out of hand can even help trash starting cards or balance out your Vassals and Sentries.  Trashing attacks (especially Swindler and Knights) can wreck the strategy, though.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 02:07:10 pm by aku_chi »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1074 on: October 17, 2017, 07:30:23 am »
+8

Salvager + Dominate

Dominate can be difficult to achieve if there isn't a decent engine available, but salvaging Provinces to Dominate is possible even in a money deck, in which case keeping the VP virtual is even more valuable. With the addition of some stronger trashing a golden deck that earns 9 VP/turn should be fairly easy to set up.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1075 on: October 20, 2017, 06:09:23 pm »
+1

Groundskeeper + Vineyards

The more groundskeepers you have, the more points your vineyards are worth; the more groundskeepers you play, the more points you bag for each vineyards buy.

I just played a game where my deck was 5 cities (L3), 3 Familiars, 2 Golds, Potion, and Chapel so produced $11P with 6 buys. I started buying 1 Vineyards and 2 Groundskeepers per turn. My opponent had already started greening a more conventional engine on Colonies with the odd vineyards when his Potion came round, and my VP accretion seemed poor at first, but it got more and more powerful every turn, especially when I switched the two Groundskeepers for five Chapels on the final turn. I did not expect it to turn out so well.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 06:10:50 pm by cascadestyler »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1076 on: October 24, 2017, 05:24:36 am »
+4

Haunted Woods counters Nights.

EDIT: Looks like this was already posted in one of the other threads.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 03:40:09 pm by Awaclus »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1077 on: October 24, 2017, 01:21:02 pm »
+6

Haunted Woods counters Nights.

Makes sense. If the woods are haunted, it's too scary to do anything at night.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1078 on: October 28, 2017, 11:37:54 pm »
0

Has anyone tried Inheriting Shepherd? I haven't but I'm guessing it's pretty awesome.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1079 on: October 28, 2017, 11:41:32 pm »
+1

Haunted Woods counters Nights.

Makes sense. If the woods are haunted, it's too scary to do anything at night.

Ghost are very scared of haunted places, I hear.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1080 on: October 31, 2017, 01:01:03 pm »
+4

Has anyone tried Inheriting Shepherd? I haven't but I'm guessing it's pretty awesome.

I had the chance to, but I went with Faithful Hound instead. I figured that way I could still use my Shepherds to discard the Estates, and then they'd always come back for the next hand too.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1081 on: November 01, 2017, 05:25:03 pm »
+2

Cute trick when you have limited terminal space:  Summon an Island then you get to set aside a card your next turn without consuming an action.  Really lowers the opportunity cost for playing the island (though not the opportunity cost for buying it, which increases).  Not good if there are power 5's you want instead of course.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1082 on: November 01, 2017, 05:46:11 pm »
0

Cute trick when you have limited terminal space:  Summon an Island then you get to set aside a card your next turn without consuming an action.  Really lowers the opportunity cost for playing the island (though not the opportunity cost for buying it, which increases).  Not good if there are power 5's you want instead of course.

Both Summon and Island are compulsory, right? So there's a (probably small) chance you could be forced to set aside something you'd prefer not to.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1083 on: November 03, 2017, 01:42:09 pm »
0

Cute trick when you have limited terminal space:  Summon an Island then you get to set aside a card your next turn without consuming an action.  Really lowers the opportunity cost for playing the island (though not the opportunity cost for buying it, which increases).  Not good if there are power 5's you want instead of course.

Both Summon and Island are compulsory, right? So there's a (probably small) chance you could be forced to set aside something you'd prefer not to.

Of course, just like there is a chance that your Lookout will be forced to trash something you want to keep.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1084 on: November 03, 2017, 01:50:45 pm »
0

Cute trick when you have limited terminal space:  Summon an Island then you get to set aside a card your next turn without consuming an action.  Really lowers the opportunity cost for playing the island (though not the opportunity cost for buying it, which increases).  Not good if there are power 5's you want instead of course.

Both Summon and Island are compulsory, right? So there's a (probably small) chance you could be forced to set aside something you'd prefer not to.

Of course, just like there is a chance that your Lookout will be forced to trash something you want to keep.

The chance will normally be VERY small here, though, since you'll be playing your set-aside Island in addition to your starting hand.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1085 on: November 06, 2017, 05:57:29 pm »
+1

Masterpiece/Tower

Ridiculous if you're the only one going for it.

I was going to come post this one, I'm glad I searched.

37 points of Silver in this game was just brutal.  Game #8462065
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1086 on: November 06, 2017, 06:08:41 pm »
+2

Masterpiece/Tower

Ridiculous if you're the only one going for it.

I was going to come post this one, I'm glad I searched.

37 points of Silver in this game was just brutal.  Game #8462065

I call dibs on this one  :)

Tower/Silver Flood
The Silver pile is big, easy to empty, and emptying it will leave you with a pretty good deck to get some Provinces and stuff.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1087 on: November 07, 2017, 04:07:23 am »
+1

Groundskeeper + Wild Hunt
Play the former first, which is natural since it's the non-terminal.
Then play a Wild Hunt to gain an Estate, triggering VP gain from Groundskeeper.  All the better if you have multiple of them in play, and bonus if you get the VP tokens on the Wild Hunt pile as well!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1088 on: November 13, 2017, 02:16:42 am »
+2

Transmute/Advance

It's a Transmute synergy, and one that even makes it worth buying! With no other Copper trashing, you can use Transmute for this, and afterwards advance the bunch of new Transmutes you get into useful $5s or $6s. So nice it made me open Potion on a board where Transmute was the only Alchemy card.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1089 on: November 13, 2017, 02:57:56 am »
+4

Groundskeeper + Wild Hunt
Play the former first, which is natural since it's the non-terminal.
Then play a Wild Hunt to gain an Estate, triggering VP gain from Groundskeeper.  All the better if you have multiple of them in play, and bonus if you get the VP tokens on the Wild Hunt pile as well!

Similarly, Groundskeeper + Hunting Grounds is nice. You overbuy Hunting Grounds, then trash the extra HGs on your final turn to empty the Estate pile and get a lot of points.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1090 on: November 13, 2017, 11:35:36 pm »
0

Lucky Coin + Cursed Gold + Palace

Lucky Coin generates Silvers for your deck
Cursed Gold gives you a boost on Gold, even if it sticks you with a Curse.
Keep playing the Lucky Coin to gain Silvers, while hold off on Cursed Gold if you can already buy Gold without it (after your buying power levels up).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1091 on: November 16, 2017, 11:09:45 pm »
+5

Rats + Training + Dominate

As long as you find a way to spike 6 early to get Training, and your opponent doesn't pick up six Rats, you can be Dominating four or five times by turn 16, for 9VP each plus 6VP for the last one.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1092 on: November 17, 2017, 12:21:27 pm »
+1

Shepherd/Cobbler
Sheperd can create really fun decks that draw a bunch but really lack reliability, if you have a Shepherd in hand your Cobbler can gain a Estate for 2 points and +2 cards that turn, if not you can gain a Shepherd for and use it in a hand that´s likely full of green cards.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1093 on: November 18, 2017, 01:16:06 am »
+1

Hireling/Changeling

This is a rhyming duo. Changeling can always turn into a Hireling that you have already played. If you have a Silver gainer or Magpie or something to gain more Changelings, you can really start exploding.
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Trogdor the Burninator

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1094 on: November 19, 2017, 04:30:51 pm »
0

Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but Shanty Town + Big Money is a cute little engine
EDIT: When there's no better alternative available
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 05:01:16 pm by Trogdor the Burninator »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1095 on: November 22, 2017, 07:04:00 am »
+2

Shepherd/Cobbler
Sheperd can create really fun decks that draw a bunch but really lack reliability, if you have a Shepherd in hand your Cobbler can gain a Estate for 2 points and +2 cards that turn, if not you can gain a Shepherd for and use it in a hand that´s likely full of green cards.

Can confirm, had this come up as well and there was even Silk Road for extra fun. I had 2 alternating Cobblers going which were either gaining a Silk Road in hand when I had Shepherd or Shepherd in hand when I didn't. Even though the deck was basically just green I was still able to get Silk Road + Province turns.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1096 on: November 22, 2017, 09:07:16 am »
+3

I recently gained two Fortunes in the same turn by Tragic Hero.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1097 on: November 22, 2017, 10:47:17 am »
0

Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but Shanty Town + Big Money is a cute little engine
EDIT: When there's no better alternative available

Also fun: in Page / Champion games where you are desperate for draw, a couple Shanty Towns usually works. You just play everything else first! Less effective if you get multiples in your mad at once, so better with discard for benefit.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1098 on: November 23, 2017, 04:28:37 pm »
+1

Skulk + Changeling

Buy/gain a Skulk, but then the optional swapping in of Changeling kicks in.  Replace the Skulk for a Changeling, but opt to keep the Gold!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1099 on: November 24, 2017, 08:49:41 pm »
0

Rebuild/Expedition

Expedition let's you build a extremely thin Rebuild deck that still reliably hits 5 and accelerates the playing of Rebuilds. The game I just played I ended in 12 turns getting 3 provinces and milling all other 5.   
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1100 on: November 24, 2017, 09:02:24 pm »
0

Skulk - Scavenger is really nice.
Buy Skulk, Get Skulk and Gold, trash either without too much regret.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1101 on: November 25, 2017, 04:48:46 am »
+2

Play Rats, gain Rats, exchange it for a Changeling.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1102 on: November 25, 2017, 05:28:21 am »
0

Masterpiece / Triumph

A weak card and a weak event combine for some serious points as long as you have two buys. One point per coin (plus a little bit of debt) is incredible value in a province game, and you never need more than two buys.
EDITED: I originally said Annex instead of Triumph by accident. Also apparently Triumph is generally not considered weak. I haven't played with it all that much and it seemed weak in the games in which I saw it, but of course it will always depend on the board.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 08:00:22 am by cascadestyler »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1103 on: November 25, 2017, 07:31:42 am »
+1

Masterpiece / Annex

A weak card and a weak event combine for some serious points as long as you have two buys. One point per coin (plus a little bit of debt) is incredible value in a province game, and you never need more than two buys.
Triumph, that is. Doing stuff is just not what Annex does.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1104 on: November 25, 2017, 08:07:32 am »
+4

Masterpiece / Annex

A weak card and a weak event combine for some serious points as long as you have two buys. One point per coin (plus a little bit of debt) is incredible value in a province game, and you never need more than two buys.
Triumph, that is. Doing stuff is just not what Annex does.

Triumph is also one of the strongest Events, rather than a weak event.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1105 on: November 25, 2017, 11:34:44 am »
0

Masterpiece/Tower is also quite good, since it can go after Provinces after emptying Silvers.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1106 on: November 27, 2017, 05:17:29 am »
+3

Play Rats, gain Rats, exchange it for a Changeling.

Did that with Magpie but without much success, mostly due to the fact that it was my first Changeling match.

Pity Changeling does not work with Duchess, but probably better for the toddler she's presenting.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1107 on: November 27, 2017, 10:22:55 am »
+5

Mint - Changeling

Because sometimes you don't actually want the Mint
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1108 on: November 27, 2017, 05:41:04 pm »
0

Mint - Changeling

Because sometimes you don't actually want the Mint

And a lot of the time a Changeling is a better Mint anyway. How often do you need a third Gold?  ;)
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William Howard Taft

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1109 on: November 28, 2017, 03:23:15 am »
+1

Bureaucrat can really screw over Shepard sometimes. Also it's fun getting Changelings instead of a Silver.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1110 on: November 28, 2017, 03:40:55 am »
0

Bureaucrat can really screw over Shepard sometimes. Also it's fun getting Changelings instead of a Silver.
I'd still buy Militia over Bureaucrat with Shepard in play. Shepard + 2 Victory cards can turn the Militia attack into a Minion's clout, which isn't necessarily gentler. Not sure about Changeling, it's effect seems a bit weaker than Smugglers, but on boards with Shepard and Changeling I would try Bureaucrat over Militia.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1111 on: November 28, 2017, 08:47:48 am »
+1

Mint - Changeling

Because sometimes you don't actually want the Mint

Now I really wish there were a way to increase costs of cards so that Stonemason - Changeling could be a thing. Works with Trader, though.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1112 on: November 28, 2017, 09:15:31 am »
+7

Conclave/Distant Lands: You can play Conclave before a Distant Lands infinitely.

Arena/Faithful Hound: Get a free Hound discard every turn, even when the points run dry.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 09:19:20 am by Seprix »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1113 on: November 28, 2017, 02:59:16 pm »
+1

Masterpiece / Annex

A weak card and a weak event combine for some serious points as long as you have two buys. One point per coin (plus a little bit of debt) is incredible value in a province game, and you never need more than two buys.

would someone explain this to me? 
why are you filling your deck with silver, and what cards are you shuffling into your deck and why?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1114 on: November 28, 2017, 03:01:20 pm »
+1

Masterpiece / Annex

A weak card and a weak event combine for some serious points as long as you have two buys. One point per coin (plus a little bit of debt) is incredible value in a province game, and you never need more than two buys.

would someone explain this to me? 
why are you filling your deck with silver, and what cards are you shuffling into your deck and why?

It's a typo: Annex was supposed to say Triumph.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1115 on: November 28, 2017, 10:08:57 pm »
0

Capital / Crypt
I'm not sure how realistic it is but imagine a deck that has x Capitals and 2x Crypts, where each turn you use x of the Crypts to each set aside 1 of the Capitals .. something like that. Would be neat. Doubt it has Mandarin/Capitol potential, but maybe could be good?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1116 on: November 29, 2017, 06:03:51 am »
0

Governor / Changeling

Gain Changelings which become more Governors from Governor's Gold/Silver. Trash Estates into $3s which become Changelings which become more Governors. Turn your opponent's given Silver into Changelings which become Golds which become Provinces.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1117 on: November 29, 2017, 09:51:41 am »
0

Capital / Crypt
I'm not sure how realistic it is but imagine a deck that has x Capitals and 2x Crypts, where each turn you use x of the Crypts to each set aside 1 of the Capitals .. something like that. Would be neat. Doubt it has Mandarin/Capitol potential, but maybe could be good?

It's very good. I remember qvist doing this the day Crypt came out.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1118 on: November 29, 2017, 09:58:15 am »
+1

Governor / Changeling

Gain Changelings which become more Governors from Governor's Gold/Silver. Trash Estates into $3s which become Changelings which become more Governors. Turn your opponent's given Silver into Changelings which become Golds which become Provinces.
Speaking of Changeling interactions, Changeling / Masterpiece is probably the most potent one.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1119 on: November 29, 2017, 02:53:02 pm »
0

Changeling is nice with jester.  Sometimes your jester hits a very meh card, and you don't really want it.  Changeling helps a lot
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1120 on: November 29, 2017, 03:31:08 pm »
0

Capital / Crypt
I'm not sure how realistic it is but imagine a deck that has x Capitals and 2x Crypts, where each turn you use x of the Crypts to each set aside 1 of the Capitals .. something like that. Would be neat. Doubt it has Mandarin/Capitol potential, but maybe could be good?
Hmm. I can envisage peculiar kingdoms in which it made sense, but most of the time wouldn't it be simpler to buy 2*Gold than Capital+2*Crypt?

[Edit: I typoed as "1*Crypt"]
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 07:57:29 pm by crj »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1121 on: November 29, 2017, 03:37:28 pm »
+1

Just had Changeling/Conquest in a game. Points and two more future Stables, please!

Ok, wait, let's just short-circuit this altogether.

Changeling / http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Gainer#Silver_gainers

Just go down the list and imagine how it works with Changeling. Usually pretty darn well. Ok, maybe not with Raid so much. And does Bureaucrat gain the Changeling to the top of your deck?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1122 on: November 29, 2017, 03:55:57 pm »
+1

Quote
wouldn't it be simpler to buy 2*Gold than Capital+1*Crypt?

I had that exact same thought. Actually, it's Capital + 2*Crypt, because you need two crypts for each Capital if you're setting it aside every turn and drawing deck.

Wait, let's do the math.

6 Golds makes $18 for a double-Province and change. So you technically only need one additional card worth of draw (and a +buy. So one Margrave overdraws your deck by one card.)

3 Capitals makes $18 and gives you the buy. It would take 6 Crypts to set them aside. However, every turn STARTS with six cards on the table (three Capitals and three Crypts) and only 3 cards in the rest of your deck! Turn is play $18, buy Provinces, play three Crypts, set aside three Capitals, clean up the 3 Crypts from the previous turn.

It needs NO draw, and can even work with 100% reliability after the first double Province buy! The degree to which leaving cards on the table between turns helps a deck-drawing engine keeps surprising me, even though it shouldn't. Nod to Gear and Archive.

So the math says: 9 cards at $5 each is 45, 6 cards at $6 each is 36, plus Margrave or equivalent puts you at a similar cost, but with less reliability. The math looks good on this one. With decent draw it could be huge, though the Crypt split seems pretty important.

Now, the math on keeping Cursed Gold around just because you can reliably trash the curse every turn in your deck drawing engine, on the other hand... (yes, I saw someone do this. I pointed out that between the Cursed Gold, the Curse, and the trasher, they were using three cards to generate $3. That's Copper the hard way.)
 
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1123 on: November 29, 2017, 08:10:37 pm »
0

Actually, it's Capital + 2*Crypt

Agreed; I typoed. (That's why the otherwise-spurious 1* ended up there!)

As for the rest of your analysis... very interesting. Though I'm still skeptical: simply comparing 9 $5 buys with 6 $6 buys and a $5 ignores the question of how easily you can achieve those buys with half the double-Province engine.

With Gold, the answer is obvious: you have to push a little to get the first, but then Gold begets gold. A single Capital with no Crypts lets you spike your spend, but provides you with no net economy; a single Capital with one Crypt seems to compare quite poorly with one Gold. It's only once you have a Capital and two Crypts that things begin to tick over nicely. How long does that take to achieve?

Meanwhile: what about the trashing? How do we get a deck of just 3*Capital, 6*Crypt? If nothing else, we're likely to have one trasher in the deck as well. And the trashing probably won't be instantaneous. Gold will work a lot better in a deck that's only partially thinned, won't it?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1124 on: November 29, 2017, 10:37:19 pm »
0

And does Bureaucrat gain the Changeling to the top of your deck?

I think no, because Blue Dog.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1125 on: November 30, 2017, 11:46:48 am »
0

Seems to me the Capital+Crypt deck, in reality, will be a little messier to set up than I described. I was just reducing it to the bare minimum apples-with-apples comparison to highlight the pretty substantial deck-thinning effect of leaving so many cards on the table between turns.

The reality is that you'll probably have one or two Silvers or $2 action or whatever for early economy as you're trashing. Even if you buy Capital first, a single Capital/Silver/Silver turn buys two Crypts and then you're in business, paying off the debt quickly and buying engine parts two at a time. If you buy Crypt/Capital first, a Capital/Silver/Silver/Crypt lets you get another Crypt/Capital with no debt, and every pair you buy adds two cards that won't increase your deck size because they're staying on the table every turn, eliminating the need to buy more draw along with it. By comparison, every time you buy Gold, you have to buy more actions/draw to get it in hand, slowing down the Gold version by comparison.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1126 on: November 30, 2017, 01:14:58 pm »
0

Herald + Ruins: Get the Ruins off the top of your deck, and your Heralds become Villages, Labs, Peddlers, or Market Squares.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1127 on: November 30, 2017, 02:04:20 pm »
+12

Monastery/Banquet

Play 3 Coppers, buy Banquet. Gain a $5 and trash two extra Coppers for a net +/-0.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1128 on: December 01, 2017, 02:33:19 am »
0

Hireling/Changeling

This is a rhyming duo. Changeling can always turn into a Hireling that you have already played. If you have a Silver gainer or Magpie or something to gain more Changelings, you can really start exploding.

I can confirm this is fun and effective.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1129 on: December 01, 2017, 02:36:45 pm »
0

Thief/Heirlooms

Thief is way more fun when you can steal Magic Lamps, Pastures, Goats, etc. Just be careful about trashing your opponent's Haunted Mirror.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1130 on: December 01, 2017, 03:27:23 pm »
+1

Thief/Heirlooms

Thief is way more fun when you can steal Magic Lamps, Pastures, Goats, etc. Just be careful about trashing your opponent's Haunted Mirror.

Would Heirlooms be any different if Thief (or a Thief-like card) was still a "live" card?

For example, Donald has stated that Cursed Gold is priced as it is to allow it to be trashed by Knights (and presumably others) while other heirlooms were specifically priced to avoid those attacks.

Quote
I think the only change to Pasture was that once it cost $4. Some of the Heirlooms dropped below $3 to dodge War and some Knight-family attacks.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 03:29:12 pm by Cave-o-sapien »
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William Howard Taft

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1131 on: December 01, 2017, 05:32:39 pm »
0

I think it's cool that heirlooms are really hard to steal and impossible to recover once they've been trashed. Cursed Gold is the only one that can return from the grave to bring misfortune to someone new.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1132 on: December 01, 2017, 05:46:48 pm »
+2

I think it's cool that heirlooms are really hard to steal and impossible to recover once they've been trashed. Cursed Gold is the only one that can return from the grave to bring misfortune to someone new.

Lucky Coin also costs $4.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1133 on: December 02, 2017, 01:43:43 am »
0

I think it's cool that heirlooms are really hard to steal and impossible to recover once they've been trashed. Cursed Gold is the only one that can return from the grave to bring misfortune to someone new.

Lucky Coin also costs $4.

Yeah, it can also return from the grave to bring misfortune to someone new.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1134 on: December 02, 2017, 02:26:49 pm »
+7

Den of Sin + Haggler

Example game with 6 Provinces in 11 turns (feat. Goat): 9268484

A tactically bought Den of Sin can help you hit an early $8 with Haggler, and then gaining Den of Sins with Haggler while greening can maintain that momentum for the entire short duration of the game.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1135 on: December 02, 2017, 02:32:45 pm »
0

I think it's cool that heirlooms are really hard to steal and impossible to recover once they've been trashed. Cursed Gold is the only one that can return from the grave to bring misfortune to someone new.

Lucky Coin also costs $4.

Yeah, it can also return from the grave to bring misfortune to someone new.

A rogue who is despicable enough to take someone's lucky coin deserves it.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1136 on: December 02, 2017, 08:31:58 pm »
+5

In a game today I went for Cobbler so I could gain Cemetery and trash down.  When I did it, I realized... I can trash the Cemetery too!  It should work with other gain-to-hand stuff as well.

In another game, we found a neat Faithful Hound/Raider interaction.  I was playing a Faithful Hound/Storeroom deck, but my opponent countered it by playing multiple Raiders.  He didn't have Faithful Hounds in play so I had to discard Storerooms.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1137 on: December 03, 2017, 08:01:45 am »
0

Masterpiece / Annex

A weak card and a weak event combine for some serious points as long as you have two buys. One point per coin (plus a little bit of debt) is incredible value in a province game, and you never need more than two buys.

would someone explain this to me? 
why are you filling your deck with silver, and what cards are you shuffling into your deck and why?

I absolutely meant Triumph, not Annex. Sorry for the confusion.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1138 on: December 03, 2017, 10:57:51 am »
0

Watchtower/Trader + Cursed Gold

Trash those pesky Curses with Watchtower or Trade them for Silvers which can fuel your Pookas!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1139 on: December 03, 2017, 11:00:55 am »
+2

Masterpiece / Annex

A weak card and a weak event combine for some serious points as long as you have two buys. One point per coin (plus a little bit of debt) is incredible value in a province game, and you never need more than two buys.

would someone explain this to me? 
why are you filling your deck with silver, and what cards are you shuffling into your deck and why?

I absolutely meant Triumph, not Annex. Sorry for the confusion.

Triumph is not a weak event though, it's one of the strongest card-shaped things in the game.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1140 on: December 03, 2017, 11:20:05 am »
0

Masterpiece / Annex

A weak card and a weak event combine for some serious points as long as you have two buys. One point per coin (plus a little bit of debt) is incredible value in a province game, and you never need more than two buys.

would someone explain this to me? 
why are you filling your deck with silver, and what cards are you shuffling into your deck and why?

I absolutely meant Triumph, not Annex. Sorry for the confusion.

Triumph is not a weak event though, it's one of the strongest card-shaped things in the game.

I also think Triumph is very strong/relevant (and have even seen the aforementioned Masterpiece/Triumph combo), but it's easy to forget about it and sometimes there are no extra gains, making it only marginally useful.

There was a discussion about Triumph and other Empires cards here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17973.0
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1141 on: December 06, 2017, 03:55:23 am »
+1

Lurker / Rats

Nothing exciting, but it's nice that Lurker can always be a cantrip when you don't have 2 in hand.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1142 on: December 07, 2017, 03:38:50 pm »
+4

Counterfeit + Idol

Play Idol #1 - Accept a Boon
Play Counterfeit
Play Idol #2 twice and trash it - Everyone takes 2 Curses
Play Idol #3 - Everyone takes another Curse
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1143 on: December 07, 2017, 03:41:19 pm »
+6

Another fun Nocturne/Dark Ages combo: Knights + Necromancer

Undead Knights are relentless. They can't be killed and have no allegiance to anyone.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1144 on: December 08, 2017, 03:50:16 am »
+4

Fool + Band of Misfits/Overlord

Not a spectacular combo, but Fool is often a card you don't particularly want to buy or have in your deck - after all once you have Lost in the Woods, it does nothing. Using Band of Misfits or Overlord to play it, you'll never draw a Fool dead.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1145 on: December 09, 2017, 12:49:45 am »
0

Changeling + Potion Cards is madness. You can trash your potion nice and early and keep gaining Familiars, Alchemists, Possessions, etc.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1146 on: December 09, 2017, 01:06:20 pm »
+2

Kinda obvious but Patrol is really nice in Shepherd games - the Pasture makes Patrol's scout part a bit better and Shepherd discards victories so your Patrols can suck them back up.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1147 on: December 10, 2017, 07:17:00 pm »
0

Kinda obvious but Patrol is really nice in Shepherd games - the Pasture makes Patrol's scout part a bit better and Shepherd discards victories so your Patrols can suck them back up.
Almost enough to bring back Scout ;)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1148 on: December 11, 2017, 07:02:00 am »
+1

Kinda obvious but Patrol is really nice in Shepherd games - the Pasture makes Patrol's scout part a bit better and Shepherd discards victories so your Patrols can suck them back up.
Almost enough to bring back Scout ;)

Somehow, this would be a far better combo with Scout than with Patrol.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1149 on: December 11, 2017, 01:56:55 pm »
+1

My friend won last night with a ghost/counsel room deck. 
(He used exorcist to turn 5$ actions into ghosts)

With the massive draw actions as his only actions, the ghost never missed, and he would draw into another ghost for the next turn almost guaranteed.  The Multiple +Buy on the counsel room was highly relevant in a deck full of gold. 

If you draw all of your ghosts, we learned not to play one of them, so you would be able to draw it the next turn.

It was one of those "shuffle twice per turn decks"
« Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 02:00:25 pm by weesh »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1150 on: December 13, 2017, 10:50:14 am »
+15

Shepherd/Summon is just stupidly good on a 5/2 opening.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1151 on: December 13, 2017, 03:52:53 pm »
0

Shepherd/Summon is just stupidly good on a 5/2 opening.

Seems like this will get you a hand of anywhere from $5 to $7 depending on luck of the draw and if the Heirloom is in the 2 hand or not. Quite nice!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1152 on: December 13, 2017, 04:32:01 pm »
+1

To carry on with the Shepherd theme:

Shepherd + Apothecary

Apothecary struggles with green cards and Shepherd struggles with Coppers, quite a nice skeleton for an engine. Apothecary can even set up your next turn with a Shepherd and some greens, retaining value even if you trash your Coppers.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1153 on: December 13, 2017, 11:08:20 pm »
+8

Dismantle / Ferry / a useful or Action

On 3/4 you can open Ferry/Dismantle, putting your cost reduction token on the other Action pile to take it down to or , so that you can then Dismantle your Estates for Gold and the Action. I suspect Pawn and Native Village are both good options, but there would be a lot of possibilities depending on what else is on the board.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1154 on: December 14, 2017, 01:45:27 pm »
+9

Skulk + Encampment: Skulk gives you +buy to pick up Encampments quickly, and gives you a gold to reveal to Encampments.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1155 on: December 14, 2017, 03:30:40 pm »
+11

Quest - Tunnel

You don't actually need to have 6 cards in hand to pick that option with Quest and discard all your Tunnels.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1156 on: December 15, 2017, 04:34:02 am »
0

Plan + Market Square

On weak BM boards this can be a strategy in and of itself. Just open Plan / MS and trash Estates and Coppers, gaining roughly one Gold at a time this way. Sometimes you'll get two! You should then be ready to green. Obviously this isn't that strong but it can work out OK if you're otherwise bored.

That puts the "potentially" into "potentially useful" for sure.

Secret Passage + Herald/Wishing Well/Mystic/Vassal/Masquerade/Patrol/Scrying Pool

Put a Copper in your next hand for Mask protection, or an Action card for Herald/Vassal/Wishing Well/Mystic. Tuck away a Curse/Victory for Patrol pick up on dispatch.

Harbinger + Prizes/Fortune

Never stop playing Steed, Followers or Princess. Or maybe a Fortune instead.

Secret Passage also works with Vagrant, Cartographer, Sentry, Lookout, Doctor...

May I add Chariot Race to the mix. The procedure (sneak in the winner through a sectret passage) reminds me a lot of the way the hedgehog outdid the hare in a running contest (http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/grimm187.html). I rigged a lot of races in a game yesterday.

EDIT: I just saw it covered in the Secret Passage article (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17617.0).
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 06:43:08 am by ipofanes »
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William Howard Taft

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1157 on: December 19, 2017, 03:34:16 pm »
+8

Rats has a ton of great interactions with Nocturne.

Rats/Exorcist - Exorcist is terrible at trashing Copper and Curses, but trashing Rats gives you Imps
Rats/Necromancer - Zombie Apprentice gives you +4 Cards and an Action, Zombie Mason +1 Card, Gain a card costing up to $5
Rats/Changeling Trash a card, gain a Changeling

Rats also protects you against some of the nastiest hexes. War just draws you an extra card, and Locusts draws you a card and gains you an Action costing $2 or $3.

Then there's just a bunch of trashing options to help keep them from getting out of control: Bats and the Flame's Gift are great, and worst case scenario your Goat can eat Rats and hopefully draw you an extra treasure or Night card.
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greybirdofprey

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1158 on: December 22, 2017, 02:57:55 pm »
0

I just flooded my deck with cellars and tunnels and it worked.

Also, highway + university.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1159 on: December 23, 2017, 12:12:29 am »
0

highway + university.
did you mean bridge + university?
I'm confused as to why you are specifically calling out the highway.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1160 on: December 23, 2017, 01:23:06 am »
+1

highway + university.
did you mean bridge + university?
I'm confused as to why you are specifically calling out the highway.

Bridge is terminal, while Highway isn't. Highway then Uni is easier to get than Bridge then Uni.
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William Howard Taft

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1161 on: December 23, 2017, 12:22:06 pm »
+2

Leprechaun/Storyteller has a great thematic interaction. Leprechauns are so much nicer in stories! Nothing but good luck, gold, and wishes come true.
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JThorne

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1162 on: December 23, 2017, 12:26:53 pm »
+3

Actually, I would go as far as to say Highway + University is NOT a helpful combination.

University is expensive and difficult to buy because of the potion cost. It ALREADY gains $5-cost cards, so the cost reduction given to you by Highway doesn't help you gain more Highways, so you're very likely going to be over-investing to get them, and neither card gives you the + buy so desperately needed when there's a cost-reducer in the kingdom. And University only gains actions, so you can't even use it to gain Provinces after playing three Highways!! (Could get a cheap Prince or Artisan or something, though.)

Highway/University is definitely not a thing. In a full-blown engine, with trashing, a good draw card, and a source of +buy, there is some possibility that you might play one or maybe two Universities in a megaturn engine featuring Highway, but the two cards don't interact in any meaningful way. If anything, they almost belong in the "annoying and potentially harmful" thread.

As a general rule, though, just make a mental note of [any cost reducer + any gainer] is usually a good thing. Not really an interesting card interaction; just how the game works.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1163 on: December 23, 2017, 01:32:09 pm »
0

Actually, I would go as far as to say Highway + University is NOT a helpful combination.

University is expensive and difficult to buy because of the potion cost. It ALREADY gains $5-cost cards, so the cost reduction given to you by Highway doesn't help you gain more Highways, so you're very likely going to be over-investing to get them, and neither card gives you the + buy so desperately needed when there's a cost-reducer in the kingdom. And University only gains actions, so you can't even use it to gain Provinces after playing three Highways!! (Could get a cheap Prince or Artisan or something, though.)

Highway/University is definitely not a thing. In a full-blown engine, with trashing, a good draw card, and a source of +buy, there is some possibility that you might play one or maybe two Universities in a megaturn engine featuring Highway, but the two cards don't interact in any meaningful way. If anything, they almost belong in the "annoying and potentially harmful" thread.

As a general rule, though, just make a mental note of [any cost reducer + any gainer] is usually a good thing. Not really an interesting card interaction; just how the game works.

University is nice with any spammable (usually cantrip) $5's Highway certainly fits the bill there. Whether the cost reduction helps Uni is board dependant but I think you're overthinking this a bit. Obviously Uni+Highway isn't very good on it's own but saying they don't interact in a meaningful way is a bit silly.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1164 on: December 23, 2017, 01:45:56 pm »
+1

Highway / Thing That Can Gain Highway is a useful interaction; it doesn’t only become useful if you need highway in play for the gainer to work? It’s not particularly, uh, out of the ordinary but it is Something
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1165 on: December 23, 2017, 03:36:01 pm »
+2

I mean, sure, but like, University combos with Highway no better than it does with, say, Treasury.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1166 on: December 23, 2017, 04:01:59 pm »
0

I mean, sure, but like, University combos with Highway no better than it does with, say, Treasury.

Sometimes there are actions that cost $6+ on the board so that isn't always true. More importantly though Treasury is a really nice card with University and Highway is no worse. I don't think University/Highway is an amazing combo or anything (unless Kings Court or something is on the board). I was mainly disagreeing with JThorne saying that they almost belong in the "annoying and potentially harmful" thread, which obviously isn't true.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1167 on: December 24, 2017, 06:03:08 am »
0

I mean, sure, but like, University combos with Highway no better than it does with, say, Treasury.

Sometimes there are actions that cost $6+ on the board so that isn't always true. More importantly though Treasury is a really nice card with University and Highway is no worse. I don't think University/Highway is an amazing combo or anything (unless Kings Court or something is on the board). I was mainly disagreeing with JThorne saying that they almost belong in the "annoying and potentially harmful" thread, which obviously isn't true.

Right, I am an idiot. University specifies 'action'. I was looking for a non-terminal anything gainer to combo with Highway for gaining several Provinces each turn. Artificer requires either a lot of Highways or a lot of discards, Vampire works, but Bat doesn't gain, Devil's Workshop only lets you do it once each turn, Cobbler is played at start-of-turn, Wish is hard to get.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1168 on: December 24, 2017, 11:26:18 am »
+2

"village + storeroom + village + library" just got simplified to Cursed Village + Storeroom

Have you ever thought: "you know what would make dominion better?  shuffling 3-4 times per turn."?
Apparently the storerooms in cursed villages have something different in them every you enter them, so you want to do it all the time.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 11:30:00 am by weesh »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1169 on: December 24, 2017, 11:51:49 am »
+2

"village + storeroom + village + library" just got simplified to Cursed Village + Storeroom

Have you ever thought: "you know what would make dominion better?  shuffling 3-4 times per turn."?
Apparently the storerooms in cursed villages have something different in them every you enter them, so you want to do it all the time.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17953.0
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1170 on: December 25, 2017, 06:32:33 am »
0

The local Wolf Den won't annoy you as much when you go for a monolithic Werewolf strategy.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1171 on: December 25, 2017, 08:46:23 am »
0

Highway / Thing That Can Gain Highway is a useful interaction; it doesn’t only become useful if you need highway in play for the gainer to work? It’s not particularly, uh, out of the ordinary but it is Something

That's true, but also obvious that gainers that can gain the card whose split you need to win are good with those cards.
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JThorne

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1172 on: December 27, 2017, 10:55:40 am »
+3

Quote
I was mainly disagreeing with JThorne saying that they almost belong in the "annoying and potentially harmful" thread, which obviously isn't true.

I'm not so sure. Here's the big question: If the kingdom has a good source of +buy, isn't is possible that Silver/Highway/+buy would get more Highways faster than investing in the potion and the University? There's a good chance that the early hands where you draw potion can't afford a Highway, and the early hands where you draw University will gain a Highway, but not buy one. If going the University route causes you to lose the Highway split, then it's definitely harmful.

But in any case, University + any spammable $5 cost, while sometimes useful, isn't exactly a "neat" interaction. It would be like posting Tunnel + Warehouse in this thread. That's not interesting, it's just what Tunnel does. Most of the stuff here is interactions that don't appear in the wiki and are usually one specific card with another specific card doing something interesting together that most players don't see on first glance.

I'm not trying to be a pain; I thought I knew how to play this game before I came to this forum, and the more I read, the more I re-think many of my initial assumptions, and the more I learn strategies, principles, interactions and techniques. Even the arguments are interesting.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1173 on: December 27, 2017, 11:44:20 am »
0

Quote
I was mainly disagreeing with JThorne saying that they almost belong in the "annoying and potentially harmful" thread, which obviously isn't true.

I'm not so sure. Here's the big question: If the kingdom has a good source of +buy, isn't is possible that Silver/Highway/+buy would get more Highways faster than investing in the potion and the University? There's a good chance that the early hands where you draw potion can't afford a Highway, and the early hands where you draw University will gain a Highway, but not buy one. If going the University route causes you to lose the Highway split, then it's definitely harmful.

But in any case, University + any spammable $5 cost, while sometimes useful, isn't exactly a "neat" interaction. It would be like posting Tunnel + Warehouse in this thread. That's not interesting, it's just what Tunnel does. Most of the stuff here is interactions that don't appear in the wiki and are usually one specific card with another specific card doing something interesting together that most players don't see on first glance.

I'm not trying to be a pain; I thought I knew how to play this game before I came to this forum, and the more I read, the more I re-think many of my initial assumptions, and the more I learn strategies, principles, interactions and techniques. Even the arguments are interesting.

This is how you should always be thinking about University though, it isn't something unique to Highway that would warrant the "potentially harmful" badge. Everything in dominion is potentially harmful if you use that logic because nothing is good 100% of the time. Sometimes Uni is good, sometimes it isn't. I'd say that the presence of Highway will more often be a point towards going for Uni than against it as it's a nice thing to pick up once you've gotten all the terminals you need and occasionally the cost reduction will matter.

I agree with you about this not being a particularly "neat" interaction.

Don't worry, you aren't being a pain! This is exactly what the forum is for!
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William Howard Taft

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1174 on: December 27, 2017, 03:13:50 pm »
+5

Last night I learned Idol is a double-edged sword against Possession. You want to possess my deck? I have 4 Idols, so a Province comes with 2 Curses.

Unfortunately Sun's Gift and Moon's Gift can absolutely wreck my next turn :-\
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1175 on: December 27, 2017, 06:14:31 pm »
0

Quote
This is how you should always be thinking about University though, it isn't something unique to Highway that would warrant the "potentially harmful" badge.

Well, what's unique about University's relationship to Highway is that cost reduction is only useful for greening if you have plus buys or gainers. (And Bridge/Troll contain +buys!) If there's no +buy, Highway could still be worth it even with a gainer as boring as Workshop if you can play four Highways and then gain a Province/buy a Province. The fact that University ONLY gains actions does, specifically, nombo with Highway for that very reason.

On the flip side, Highway just by itself is often skippable if there's no +buys or gainers, because then you're paying $5 for a good Poacher.

In summary, University has some potential downsides that you have to factor in, and Highway has some potential downsides that you have to factor in, and they do absolutely nothing to mitigate each other's downsides!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1176 on: December 27, 2017, 07:06:39 pm »
+4

Banquet - Monastery

Pay 3 Coppers for a 5er, trash those 3 Coppers (for a net of -1 Copper). Particularly useful in the early game when you have a lot of Coppers and want 5's.

EDIT: Ah, whoops.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 07:12:32 pm by Dingan »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1177 on: December 27, 2017, 07:43:48 pm »
0

Well, what's unique about University's relationship to Highway is that cost reduction is only useful for greening if you have plus buys or gainers.

Without + buy or gainers Highway is still effectively giving +$1 - it's basically a Peddler, which certainly will help you hit $8 more easily. This isn't reason enough to go for University on it's own, but it's certainly not a nombo and might be enough to tip you in the direction of University if it's a close call. I doubt you would say that Treasury for example is a nombo with University and it's the same with Highway. Remember that I never said that Highway was an amazing combo with University (apart from with certain $6+ actions).

If there's no +buy, Highway could still be worth it even with a gainer as boring as Workshop if you can play four Highways and then gain a Province/buy a Province. The fact that University ONLY gains actions does, specifically, nombo with Highway for that very reason.

Maybe we have a different definition of nombo? Highway isn't making Uni any worse for this reason or vice versa. Probably shouldn't go down that rabbit hole though.

On the flip side, Highway just by itself is often skippable if there's no +buys or gainers, because then you're paying $5 for a good Poacher.

This is true. But University is a gainer and a good Poacher is a nice card to gain, you just don't particularly to pay $5 for it.

In summary, University has some potential downsides that you have to factor in, and Highway has some potential downsides that you have to factor in, and they do absolutely nothing to mitigate each other's downsides!

This is the other thing that I disagree with, they do mitigate each other's downsides! Just not quite as much as you might think at first glace. In the context of a game with no +buy or other gainers Highway is basically a Peddler, not a bad card in that it's never really going to make your deck worse (yes yes dead terminal draw) but bad in that spending a $5 buy on it isn't particularly efficient. University mitigates this downside because it can gain those Highways at a much lower cost. Highway mitigates Universities downside that eventually you stop adding terminal actions to your deck and it essentially becomes a Necropolis by being a cantrip card you can pick up that will allow Universities to continue to improve your deck. Okay so this isn't a very strong interaction, but it is an interaction, and far from potentially harmful. It's more just a "not as useful as you'd like" interaction or something...
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1178 on: December 27, 2017, 07:53:55 pm »
0

they do mitigate each other's downsides!

In some cases, you want to go for Highway without University. When that happens, it's a nombo the same way Scout + Nobles is a nombo; it would be better to buy Nobles without Scout.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1179 on: December 27, 2017, 08:03:47 pm »
0

they do mitigate each other's downsides!

In some cases, you want to go for Highway without University. When that happens, it's a nombo the same way Scout + Nobles is a nombo; it would be better to buy Nobles without Scout.

Using this logic every single card in dominion is a nombo with every other card: there are going to be games where it would be better to buy one card and not another. E.g. Ironmonger isn't a nombo with Fortune Teller because it would be better to not get a Fortune Teller.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1180 on: December 28, 2017, 09:35:17 am »
+3

I'd got the impression a "nombo" was usually something that looked like it would be a combo, but which failed dramatically for an unanticipated reason. Secondarily, it could mean a group of cards that worked especially badly together.

I'd have said Inheritance on Band of Misfits was an example of the first usage, and Chapel+Gardens an example of the latter.

Something like, oh, Market and Farmlands, where there's no particular reason to use them together, but equally no unexpected pitfalls or particular reason to avoid incorporating them into the same strategy, I wouldn't have called a nombo.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1181 on: December 28, 2017, 12:16:53 pm »
+3

Ok, maybe "nombo" is a bit strong. However, I just ran a simulation, and it is, in fact, "potentially harmful."

Opening Potion/Silver, buying one University, then gaining and buying Highways as fast as you can, vs. opening Silver/Silver and buying Highways as fast as you can has clear results:

University method: 10.1 average turns to 5 Highways
Silver method: 9.5 average turns to 5 Highways

(Buying more Universities only gets it down to 10.0)

Mathematically, then, University, on its own, makes getting Highways slower, not faster.

Maybe that doesn't rise to the level of nombo, but it gets pretty close to "potentially harmful interaction."

I'm sure this surprises very few experienced players, but given that the original poster was probably a relative beginner to have posted the suggestion in the first place, learning that potion-cost cards really do slow down your deckbuilding that much might be a useful bit of knowledge to apply moving forward. If you're going to buy a poison potion, have a solid plan to make up for doing so.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1182 on: December 28, 2017, 02:34:27 pm »
0

Ok, maybe "nombo" is a bit strong. However, I just ran a simulation, and it is, in fact, "potentially harmful."

Opening Potion/Silver, buying one University, then gaining and buying Highways as fast as you can, vs. opening Silver/Silver and buying Highways as fast as you can has clear results:

University method: 10.1 average turns to 5 Highways
Silver method: 9.5 average turns to 5 Highways

(Buying more Universities only gets it down to 10.0)

Mathematically, then, University, on its own, makes getting Highways slower, not faster.

Maybe that doesn't rise to the level of nombo, but it gets pretty close to "potentially harmful interaction."

I'm sure this surprises very few experienced players, but given that the original poster was probably a relative beginner to have posted the suggestion in the first place, learning that potion-cost cards really do slow down your deckbuilding that much might be a useful bit of knowledge to apply moving forward. If you're going to buy a poison potion, have a solid plan to make up for doing so.

Right, but nobody said that University is good at gaining Highways quickly and again, this isn't an interaction between University and Highway specifically, it's just how Uni works. Repeat this simulation with other $5's and you'll see what I mean.

This is ignoring the fact that the 2 strategies featured in your simulation are close to never going to be optimal ever in a real game as they ignore the 8 other cards in the kingdom, so in a real game there will be a possibility that University will be the fastest way gain Highways. It is also ignoring the other utility that University provides.

Like I could post a simulation showing that Mandarin/Capital beats Travelling Fair/Counting House 90% (made up number) of the time but that doesn't make Travelling Fair/Counting House a "potentially harmful" interaction.
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JThorne

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1183 on: December 28, 2017, 04:21:18 pm »
0

Quote
Right, but nobody said that University is good at gaining Highways quickly

The original poster listed "University + Highway" as a NaPUCI. There can be no other possible interpretation. Highway doesn't need the +actions.

Quote
this isn't an interaction between University and Highway specifically, it's just how Uni works. Repeat this simulation with other $5's and you'll see what I mean.

Done. And you're only sometimes right. University + Groundskeeper gains 5 Groundskeepers faster. Double-silver opening takes 11.1 turns to do so on average. So University is only slower when gaining cards that don't give economy. That's part of the redundancy: Highways already help you get more highways.

Quote
in a real game there will be a possibility that University will be the fastest way gain Highways.

A possibility. But a probability? In a real game, there is likely to be +buy or you might skip Highway altogether, and with +buy and cost reduction, you could be getting $5s by the handful. University is still likely to slow you down.

In fact, I'll offer that as a challenge: Show me a simulation where University is, in fact, the fastest way to gain Highways in a kingdom. Can you do it without making University the only source of +Actions?

Quote
It is also ignoring the other utility that University provides.

Correct. The original post was not "Highway + University + other cool stuff." It listed only Highway + University as a NaPUCI. I am saying that it is not. It is...let's see...an anti-synergy?

Quote
Like I could post a simulation showing that Mandarin/Capital beats Travelling Fair/Counting House 90% (made up number) of the time but that doesn't make Travelling Fair/Counting House a "potentially harmful" interaction.

I said nothing about which simulation wins. I never simulated getting points. I only simulated getting Highways in order to demonstrate that University + Highway isn't a thing. Sure, you might gain a Highway with a University that you have in your deck for other reasons, on your way to a big engine. That doesn't make it a thing.

I have had to explain to beginners that Beggar + Moneylender isn't a thing. It looks good on the surface: Gain coppers, turn them into $3 each. But you would have to really create a tortured scenario to make that anything other than awful. Things that look good on the surface and turn out not to be so good are a key part of learning this game.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1184 on: December 28, 2017, 07:46:53 pm »
0

Okay this is getting a bit ridiculous... I never said that pure Highway/University was a thing. In fact I said that was the thing that I agreed with you on multiple times. All I said was that saying it is a nombo is going too far. Nothing that you have said has really addressed that. Like you're obviously aiming these posts at me because I'm the one who keeps disagreeing with you, but the content of your posts seems to be aimed at someone who is saying that pure Uni/Highway is a combo or something (which nobody ever said - not even the original poster). Here is the relevant quote.

Right, I am an idiot. University specifies 'action'. I was looking for a non-terminal anything gainer to combo with Highway for gaining several Provinces each turn. Artificer requires either a lot of Highways or a lot of discards, Vampire works, but Bat doesn't gain, Devil's Workshop only lets you do it once each turn, Cobbler is played at start-of-turn, Wish is hard to get.

Obviously he made a mistake, but that has been cleared up now.

Quote
Right, but nobody said that University is good at gaining Highways quickly

The original poster listed "University + Highway" as a NaPUCI. There can be no other possible interpretation. Highway doesn't need the +actions.

Well I just proved that wrong. I interpreted it as "Highway reduces costs so it lets Uni gain actions that cost more than $5." Because that is actually a neat and potentially useful interaction! I'd love to see how you approach boards with Grand Market or Kings Court along with the two cards in question.

Quote
this isn't an interaction between University and Highway specifically, it's just how Uni works. Repeat this simulation with other $5's and you'll see what I mean.

Done. And you're only sometimes right. University + Groundskeeper gains 5 Groundskeepers faster. Double-silver opening takes 11.1 turns to do so on average. So University is only slower when gaining cards that don't give economy. That's part of the redundancy: Highways already help you get more highways.

Ah so how about Treasury, Baker or Market? The ones which I've already compared Highway to in this scenario. I should have been more clear that that's what I was talking about, sorry. Also I think you mean University is only faster when gaining cards that don't give economy.

Quote
in a real game there will be a possibility that University will be the fastest way gain Highways.

A possibility. But a probability? In a real game, there is likely to be +buy or you might skip Highway altogether, and with +buy and cost reduction, you could be getting $5s by the handful. University is still likely to slow you down.

In fact, I'll offer that as a challenge: Show me a simulation where University is, in fact, the fastest way to gain Highways in a kingdom. Can you do it without making University the only source of +Actions?

I'm pretty confident that any trashing, strong cycling or attacks that make it hard to hit $5 will make Uni way better than Silvers. I don't much care for simulations myself, I've always found that they are very misleading - this is an example of such a situation.

Quote
It is also ignoring the other utility that University provides.

Correct. The original post was not "Highway + University + other cool stuff." It listed only Highway + University as a NaPUCI. I am saying that it is not. It is...let's see...an anti-synergy?

Oh yeah because it's not like there's at least 8 other cool things that are guaranteed to be in every game with with Highway+University.  I find your tone very patronising and not particularly pleasant here, which I'm a bit surprised about because this seemed like a friendly enough discussion so far...

Quote
Like I could post a simulation showing that Mandarin/Capital beats Travelling Fair/Counting House 90% (made up number) of the time but that doesn't make Travelling Fair/Counting House a "potentially harmful" interaction.

I said nothing about which simulation wins. I never simulated getting points. I only simulated getting Highways in order to demonstrate that University + Highway isn't a thing. Sure, you might gain a Highway with a University that you have in your deck for other reasons, on your way to a big engine. That doesn't make it a thing.

I just proxied the Highways for Provinces - it's exactly the same principle (fastest to get Highways in your case, fastest to get Provinces in mine) and ultimately they're both pretty meaningless. You contrived an unrealistic situation to try and prove something that nobody even disagreed with in the first place, so I contrived an unrealistic situation to do the same thing, to make a point.

I agree with you about this not being a particularly "neat" interaction.

This isn't reason enough to go for University on it's own, but it's certainly not a nombo and might be enough to tip you in the direction of University if it's a close call.

I never said it was a thing! Even the guy who said it was a thing has now said that he made a mistake! I suggest you actually read the thread before you post. (My turn to be patronising  :P)

Anyway I'd be happy to play some games with you featuring both University and Highway so we can how differently we approach those boards and potentially both learn something, rather than continuing to argue in circles.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1185 on: January 10, 2018, 05:08:00 pm »
+4

Villa - Merchant Guild

Villa lets you spend the coin tokens you gain from Merchant Guild on the same turn you earn them. Just lost a game where I was certain my opponent was one $ short of winning on a pileout, but this trick put them over the top.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1186 on: January 10, 2018, 08:18:38 pm »
+2

Sacrifice + Rats

It's been pointed out before, but in my match vs jonts, I passed over both Ambassador and Masquerade for it to see what happens. The answer is: insanely fast cycling that doesn't draw things dead.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1187 on: January 11, 2018, 12:30:10 pm »
+2

Forager/Heirlooms

Definitely neat, and definitely potentially useful. But you possibly want to win the Forager split before trashing your Heirlooms...
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1188 on: January 11, 2018, 12:51:54 pm »
+1

Forager/Heirlooms

Definitely neat, and definitely potentially useful. But you possibly want to win the Forager split before trashing your Heirlooms...

I guess this depends on the Heirloom: Goat, Pouch and Pasture are things that you might want to keep for the whole game.
Magic Lamp and Haunted Mirror tend to end up in the trash so they'd make Forager better, Forager is extra good with Haunted Mirror of course, not the best to trigger Lamp though because it eats up 2 hand spaces.

Haunted Mirror and Lucky Coin are probably the most interesting, if Forager is the only +buy you might want to keep these around to use Curses/Silvers to fuel a Forager.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1189 on: January 12, 2018, 12:01:02 pm »
0

i had a game with shanty town and training
i played big money-ish, with some minor drawing (+2)
payload was gold
i managed to draw 2 cards like 3-4 times of 5 shanty towns
a +2 +2 which also gave (1) for (3) was just epic
i finished game with 6 to 2 prov. (triple province in last round)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1190 on: January 12, 2018, 09:14:04 pm »
+9

Ghost + Prince

No, you don't get to Prince 2 cards, but there's still a cool interaction. When you Ghost a Prince, at the beginning of your next turn the Prince sets aside a card. Then the Prince gets played again and doesn't do anything. Now it's still technically the "start of your turn", so the card you just Princed gets played immediately!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1191 on: January 13, 2018, 11:09:35 am »
+3

Will-o-wisp and Bandit Camp.  Spoils cost 0, so will-o-wisp picks them up! Plus I got the WOW from pixie, which means goat ate everything else, so WOW was pretty consistently a lab. 
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1192 on: January 13, 2018, 11:27:56 am »
+5

Cursed Village + Fishing Village

Not only is FV a decent source of virtual coin, being able to play a bunch of terminals before playing a CV increases the CV draw significantly.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1193 on: January 15, 2018, 04:04:04 am »
+6

Death Cart + Monastery
Buy a Death Cart with Monastery in hand, trash three cards including the copper you used for your purchase and increase the odds of colliding your Death Cart with one of the ruins.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1194 on: January 15, 2018, 05:39:38 am »
0

Cursed Village + Fishing Village

Not only is FV a decent source of virtual coin, being able to play a bunch of terminals before playing a CV increases the CV draw significantly.

hm, I think I would go for Watchtower/Library and FV and skip CV if all three were available. Not sure if the additional actions justify the extra $2 expense and being Hexed (though many Hexes fizzle when issued during the Buy phase).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1195 on: January 15, 2018, 06:09:07 am »
+5

Cursed Village + Fishing Village

Not only is FV a decent source of virtual coin, being able to play a bunch of terminals before playing a CV increases the CV draw significantly.

hm, I think I would go for Watchtower/Library and FV and skip CV if all three were available. Not sure if the additional actions justify the extra $2 expense and being Hexed (though many Hexes fizzle when issued during the Buy phase).

It absolutely does justify it. The Hexes are for the most part not that bad (lots of them do nothing during the Buy phase), and nonterminal draw is just better than terminal draw for all sorts of reasons that should be obvious. Why make your deck difficult to use when you don’t have to?

Along the lines of the above, Conclave + Cursed Village at start of turn gives you 3 Cards 3 Actions, allowing you to play two terminals before your next CV so you can draw 3 cards again.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1196 on: January 15, 2018, 09:57:41 pm »
+2

Pooka + Bandit Camp

There's the obvious village+draw synergy, but also the treasure gaining + treasure trashing synergy.  It's really tricky though because if you spend all your spoils you might dud the next turn for lack of treasure.  And unless your opponent is mirroring, maybe you want to end the game before the spoils all run out.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1197 on: January 27, 2018, 05:08:25 pm »
+1

Rats + Tower

The classic Rats pileout is always a fun way to win, but it can be tricky to pull off since the Rats will usually eat the rest of your deck, requiring you to not rely on Victory cards for points. 

With Tower, gaining all the Rats is suddenly a hefty chunk of VP.  As other piles get low, keep a close eye out for the Rats ending, and be ready to pull the trigger when the moment is right.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1198 on: January 28, 2018, 12:58:05 pm »
+1

Advance+Villa

Not as crazy as Alms+Villa, but something to keep in mind if you don't hit $4 after playing a terminal draw card or in other situations.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1199 on: January 28, 2018, 03:03:12 pm »
+8

Exorcist / Quarry

Trash Estate, gain Imp
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1200 on: January 30, 2018, 09:37:39 pm »
0

someone probably already said this but the presence of Changeling makes Rats a pretty decent opening
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1201 on: February 01, 2018, 01:06:02 am »
+7

Save / Moat

Allows to ignore all the attacks.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1202 on: February 01, 2018, 08:46:34 am »
+13

Save / Moat
Allows to ignore all the attacks.

That way you can avoid getting hit by a bridge troll every turn!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1203 on: February 01, 2018, 09:40:21 am »
+4

Golem + Harbinger

Golem skips past all of your other Golems or your Potion, but Harbingers can topdeck those things and draw them to keep the turn going/let you buy more Golem.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1204 on: February 01, 2018, 10:24:00 am »
0

In general, I try to avoid buying cheaper/weaker actions when planning to go Golem. I prefer my Golem draw a Goons and a Grand Market in lieu of two Harbingers. Also, the next Golem you play in the same turn would skip over the topdecked cards.
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Gazbag

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1205 on: February 01, 2018, 11:20:03 am »
+1

In general, I try to avoid buying cheaper/weaker actions when planning to go Golem. I prefer my Golem draw a Goons and a Grand Market in lieu of two Harbingers. Also, the next Golem you play in the same turn would skip over the topdecked cards.

Stocking up on cantrips can be nice to avoid Golems from hitting double terminal, it's more of a thing you do if you're using Golem as a village in a terminal draw deck. The idea is that you don't have another Golem in hand and you topdeck a Golem with a Harbinger and draw it with another card, either the other card your Golem hits or something in your hand. You topdeck something else if you aren't going to draw what you topdeck and are instead going play a Golem. The idea is that you don't skip past Golems, allowing you to play more Golems. Ideally yes, you want to hit expensive actions with Golem, but Golem itself is an expensive action so it will take time to get everything, also playing more Golems means you're playing more of your good actions.
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crj

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1206 on: February 01, 2018, 12:07:49 pm »
0

Save / Moat
Allows to ignore all the attacks.
That way you can avoid getting hit by a bridge troll every turn!
It's even better than that. You can avoid getting hit by a Bridge Troll and an Urchin every turn!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1207 on: February 01, 2018, 12:44:32 pm »
+4

It's even better than that. You can avoid getting hit by a Bridge Troll and an Urchin every turn!

Save sets aside the card for your next hand, so you still draw the same 5 cards you would have anyways.
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smuggler

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1208 on: February 05, 2018, 01:47:44 pm »
0

i tried search, so excuse me if it already dropped
had a play (and a blast) with armory and procession
gaining 5 cost (duke) -> three piling, was kinda fun
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1209 on: February 05, 2018, 02:04:41 pm »
+1

i tried search, so excuse me if it already dropped
had a play (and a blast) with armory and procession
gaining 5 cost (duke) -> three piling, was kinda fun

Procession can’t gain Duke, as it is not an Action.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1210 on: February 05, 2018, 02:54:18 pm »
+1

i tried search, so excuse me if it already dropped
had a play (and a blast) with armory and procession
gaining 5 cost (duke) -> three piling, was kinda fun

Procession can’t gain Duke, as it is not an Action.

I think the German version could. Is that still a thing?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1211 on: February 07, 2018, 04:50:00 pm »
+1

i have the german dark ages, yes.

it still felt quite strong gaining every turn at least one 5-cost card
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1212 on: February 09, 2018, 01:39:30 am »
+3

i have the german dark ages, yes.

it still felt quite strong gaining every turn at least one 5-cost card

It's a misprint that HiG, the original German publisher, never fixed. I ultimately decided to print my own corrected version... In a similar vain, the second edition version of Mine has been misprinted by ASS to gain Action cards. German Dominion in general has dozends of poorly translated cards
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1213 on: February 09, 2018, 06:11:31 pm »
+5

Ambassador / Defiled Shrine

DS is nice in Amb games where you're buying a couple Curses anyways. But I just played a particularly cool game where the Curses ran out with still a lot of DS points to be had -- I could Amb back 2 Curses, opponent would get 1, then I'd buy the other, continuing to do this until all DS points were gone.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1214 on: February 12, 2018, 05:29:53 am »
0

Oracle / Will-o-Wisp

Your opponent topdecks trash for you? Just get some extra draw from it by playing a Wisp first!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1215 on: February 12, 2018, 08:16:14 am »
0

I'm not seeing how that works. If you have rubbish at the top of your deck, Wisp gets it into your hand, but doesn't leave you any better off than if the rubbish hadn't been there. Worse, the rubbish has to be second card down for even that to work.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1216 on: February 12, 2018, 10:12:52 am »
+5

I'm not seeing how that works. If you have rubbish at the top of your deck, Wisp gets it into your hand, but doesn't leave you any better off than if the rubbish hadn't been there. Worse, the rubbish has to be second card down for even that to work.

It works because you're still better off having the rubbish in your hand than on the top of your deck. Being the second card isn't a problem because you get to choose the order in which you topdeck cards from your opponent's Oracle.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1217 on: February 13, 2018, 03:14:41 am »
+6

Dismantle/Bonfire

Powerful opening for quick trashing while maintaining economy.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1218 on: February 13, 2018, 02:39:45 pm »
+2

An extremely minor interaction, but nonetheless good to know:

Envious/Deluded start at the beginning of your Buy phase, and do not affect purchases from teh Black Market.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1219 on: February 13, 2018, 10:51:50 pm »
+13

Donate + Death Cart

Saw this w/ 4/3 recently.

T1: buy DC
T2: Donate all but DC/Ruins, pay 3 debt
T3: trash a ruins, pay remaining debt
T4: trash other ruins and either
   a. buy best $5 card on board -- deck is now DC + best $5 or
   b. buy another DC to have 2 DC + 2 ruins, insuring at least $5 for next 4 turns.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1220 on: February 14, 2018, 10:38:09 am »
+2

Iiiinteresting!

I can envisage boards where you might want to keep one, maybe even two, of your Coppers though? Particularly, keeping a Copper would let you buy Gold instead of a $5-cost on T4.

Also, you probably want to buy a Ruins on T3.

I'd love to know how that combo fitted into various kingdoms. I can see three very different ways to proceed:
  • Buy the cards you really want, then once your ruins run out let the Death Cart eat itself,
  • Buy another Death Cart every third turn.
  • Rely on cantrip +Buy or a gainer to keep the Death Cart fed constantly throughout the game.
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JKRich

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1221 on: February 14, 2018, 11:22:56 am »
0

Iiiinteresting!
I searched f.ds and the wiki and was frankly surprised I saw no mention of this interaction anywhere.

I can envisage boards where you might want to keep one, maybe even two, of your Coppers though? Particularly, keeping a Copper would let you buy Gold instead of a $5-cost on T4.
I'm not an expert by any stretch so my natural inclination is to think that keeping a Copper dilutes your deck with, well, a Copper. Does that make me an overtrasher? Do I have a problem? Is there a support group for this?

Also, you probably want to buy a Ruins on T3.
Excellent catch.

I'd love to know how that combo fitted into various kingdoms. I can see three very different ways to proceed:
  • Buy the cards you really want, then once your ruins run out let the Death Cart eat itself,
  • Buy another Death Cart every third turn.
  • Rely on cantrip +Buy or a gainer to keep the Death Cart fed constantly throughout the game.
Your last 2 points both basically need a kingdom with +buy (figuring your deck would be strong enough to not want to waste entire turns solely buying a Death Cart at that point), which I didn't have, but are again excellent points.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1222 on: February 14, 2018, 12:47:19 pm »
0

I like how quickly this gets you to $5 while also cleaning up after itself, meaning you don't need another Donate.

With the right $5 cards this seems really powerful.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1223 on: February 14, 2018, 12:53:11 pm »
+4

Your last 2 points both basically need a kingdom with +buy (figuring your deck would be strong enough to not want to waste entire turns solely buying a Death Cart at that point), which I didn't have, but are again excellent points.
Death Cart means there likely is +buy, though...
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crj

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1224 on: February 14, 2018, 08:28:08 pm »
+2

Ruined Market?

Well yes, but...
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1225 on: February 17, 2018, 05:15:17 am »
+5

Temple/Changeling

Gain a Temple, take the VP, exchange it for a Changeling.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 05:16:23 am by Gamer3000 »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1226 on: February 19, 2018, 05:01:11 am »
+13

Raider/Council Room

With Council Room, you can have multiple Raider attacks per turn. This can wreak havoc on your opponent's starting hand, especially if they already started greening.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1227 on: February 20, 2018, 03:24:25 am »
+4

Borrow / Summon

If you have $4 and there is a cantripy/villagy $4 (there often is), you might as well Borrow-Summon it, rather than just buy it. Would there be any (non-edge-case) reason not to?
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 03:32:06 am by Dingan »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1228 on: February 20, 2018, 03:31:58 am »
+1

Borrow / Summon

If you have $4 and there is a cantripy/villagy $4 (there often is), you might as well Borrow to Summon it, rather than just buy it. Would there be any (non-edge-case) reason not to?
Well, that may cause it to miss a shuffle that it otherwise wouldn't miss. And you don't get any on-buy effects.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1229 on: February 22, 2018, 05:22:56 pm »
0

Rats is good defense against War.  You know, if you can find that occasional kingdom where Rats are good and hexes are being tossed around.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1230 on: March 02, 2018, 07:01:33 pm »
+26

Necromancer / Pathfinding

It's usually not very interesting when you use Necromancer to play a Necromancer. But tokens make it so. Pathfinding in particular - if there are a bunch of Necromancers in the trash - can turn 1 Necromancer in hand into a super mega Lab. Happened to me in a Knights game where 8 Knights and 8 Necromancers were in the trash.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1231 on: March 05, 2018, 03:55:39 am »
0

This ... sounds abusive.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1232 on: March 05, 2018, 10:35:47 pm »
+2

To me, that feels really nifty but falls short of abusive. Remember you can only do it once per turn, and you've had to invest quite a bit in making it happen.

You can get much the same effect from four Villages and four Smithies.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1233 on: March 06, 2018, 09:47:46 am »
+1

Rats, Monastery, Market Square

I played this combo yesterday and it worked in practice even better than I'd hoped. Opened Rats/Market Square on a 4/3, then bought a single Monastery and a couple more Market Squares. (Then, like an idiot, tried to pivot into doing funky stuff with a Forge rather than just greening, which was my downfall.)

Replacing cards in your deck with Rats makes it much more likely you'll get trashers and Market Squares to collide.

Each Rats and Gold you gain during your turn buffs your Monastery.

Monastery trashes a card at a time, so you can trash the cards you draw by trashing Rats. Or you might draw a Market Square...
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1234 on: March 06, 2018, 09:55:18 am »
+1

Rats, Monastery, Market Square

I played this combo yesterday and it worked in practice even better than I'd hoped. Opened Rats/Market Square on a 4/3, then bought a single Monastery and a couple more Market Squares. (Then, like an idiot, tried to pivot into doing funky stuff with a Forge rather than just greening, which was my downfall.)

Replacing cards in your deck with Rats makes it much more likely you'll get trashers and Market Squares to collide.

Each Rats and Gold you gain during your turn buffs your Monastery.

Monastery trashes a card at a time, so you can trash the cards you draw by trashing Rats. Or you might draw a Market Square...

This is the thread for potentially useful card interactions. The thread for game reports is here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16947.0
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1235 on: March 06, 2018, 10:28:57 am »
+2

Huh? Three or four observations about card interaction, but one measly parenthetical remark about Forge and suddenly this is a game report not a neat interaction?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1236 on: March 06, 2018, 10:39:04 am »
0

Huh? Three or four observations about card interaction, but one measly parenthetical remark about Forge and suddenly this is a game report not a neat interaction?

It's not potentially useful, it has three cards in it which means it will never come up for anyone else playing full random.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1237 on: March 06, 2018, 10:42:32 am »
+1

Rats, Monastery, Market Square

I played this combo yesterday and it worked in practice even better than I'd hoped. Opened Rats/Market Square on a 4/3, then bought a single Monastery and a couple more Market Squares. (Then, like an idiot, tried to pivot into doing funky stuff with a Forge rather than just greening, which was my downfall.)

Replacing cards in your deck with Rats makes it much more likely you'll get trashers and Market Squares to collide.

Each Rats and Gold you gain during your turn buffs your Monastery.

Monastery trashes a card at a time, so you can trash the cards you draw by trashing Rats. Or you might draw a Market Square...

This is the thread for potentially useful card interactions. The thread for game reports is here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16947.0

Almost made an AdamH joke; then took at look at the upvote for this post...
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GendoIkari

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1238 on: March 06, 2018, 10:44:04 am »
+1

Huh? Three or four observations about card interaction, but one measly parenthetical remark about Forge and suddenly this is a game report not a neat interaction?

It's not potentially useful, it has three cards in it which means it will never come up for anyone else playing full random.

I'm not going to look through the whole thread to check and see if anyone else has mentioned 3-card interactions, but if the intent is that this thread can only be used for 2-card interactions, that should have been clearly stated up front.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1239 on: March 06, 2018, 10:45:28 am »
0

Huh? Three or four observations about card interaction, but one measly parenthetical remark about Forge and suddenly this is a game report not a neat interaction?

It's not potentially useful, it has three cards in it which means it will never come up for anyone else playing full random.

I'm not going to look through the whole thread to check and see if anyone else has mentioned 3-card interactions, but if the intent is that this thread can only be used for 2-card interactions, that should have been clearly stated up front.

It was:

The purpose of this thread is to highlight neat little interactions or synergies between two cards
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1240 on: March 06, 2018, 10:49:48 am »
0

Huh? Three or four observations about card interaction, but one measly parenthetical remark about Forge and suddenly this is a game report not a neat interaction?

It's not potentially useful, it has three cards in it which means it will never come up for anyone else playing full random.

I'm not going to look through the whole thread to check and see if anyone else has mentioned 3-card interactions, but if the intent is that this thread can only be used for 2-card interactions, that should have been clearly stated up front.

It was:

The purpose of this thread is to highlight neat little interactions or synergies between two cards

Yeah I just now saw that whole debate that took place way back then. I remember it from back then, but didn't even remember that this was that same thread. Either way, it's not in the original post; only in a longer post that was made later on.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1241 on: March 06, 2018, 10:52:40 am »
+1

Fair enough; that Monastery trashes cards (with side effects) piecemeal is still a valuable piece of information which makes Monastery/Rats a fine combo on it's own.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1242 on: March 06, 2018, 11:38:52 am »
+1

Huh? Three or four observations about card interaction, but one measly parenthetical remark about Forge and suddenly this is a game report not a neat interaction?

It's not potentially useful, it has three cards in it which means it will never come up for anyone else playing full random.

I'm not going to look through the whole thread to check and see if anyone else has mentioned 3-card interactions, but if the intent is that this thread can only be used for 2-card interactions, that should have been clearly stated up front.

It was:

The purpose of this thread is to highlight neat little interactions or synergies between two cards

Yeah I just now saw that whole debate that took place way back then. I remember it from back then, but didn't even remember that this was that same thread. Either way, it's not in the original post; only in a longer post that was made later on.

No, that's a quote from the OP.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1243 on: March 06, 2018, 01:09:29 pm »
0

Huh? Three or four observations about card interaction, but one measly parenthetical remark about Forge and suddenly this is a game report not a neat interaction?

It's not potentially useful, it has three cards in it which means it will never come up for anyone else playing full random.

I'm not going to look through the whole thread to check and see if anyone else has mentioned 3-card interactions, but if the intent is that this thread can only be used for 2-card interactions, that should have been clearly stated up front.

It was:

The purpose of this thread is to highlight neat little interactions or synergies between two cards

Yeah I just now saw that whole debate that took place way back then. I remember it from back then, but didn't even remember that this was that same thread. Either way, it's not in the original post; only in a longer post that was made later on.

No, that's a quote from the OP.

Could have sworn I double-checked and couldn't find that exact text, but I see it now.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1244 on: March 06, 2018, 05:43:22 pm »
+6

There's already another different thread for this specific thing, actually:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16947.0

Two additional notes:

Stop posting Market Square + [trasher] gets lots of Gold. Yes. That's what Market Square does. It's not a combo, or particularly interesting. That's simply its job. If you can demonstrate a two-card combo with it unexpectedly sucking down 5 Provinces in 7-9 turns or something, like with Donate or Hermit, then sure, post it; otherwise, start learning how bad Gold usually is. It has taken me a long time to learn that, and my game has improved significantly. Learn to hate yellow cards, even Gold. My favorite thing to do with Gold gainers is trash-for-benefit them with cards like like Salvager or Apprentice. Every gold you gain should make you feel slightly uncomfortable trying to work how how you're going to draw it every turn.

That said, I do kind of like Rats + Monastery. For every Rat you play, you gain another card, so if you play Monastery at the end of the turn, it's almost turning each Rats into a trash-two. If you trash more Rats with the Monastery, you draw a card for each one, and since the ruling is that you trash the cards one at a time, you could potentially draw another card that you want to trash with the same Monastery, having earned multiple trashing opportunities. Now that is genuinely interesting..even neat and potentially useful.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1245 on: March 06, 2018, 06:16:57 pm »
0

Huh? Three or four observations about card interaction, but one measly parenthetical remark about Forge and suddenly this is a game report not a neat interaction?

It's not potentially useful, it has three cards in it which means it will never come up for anyone else playing full random.

Although I do agree that this thread is for 2 card interactions (Although you can't tell unless you scroll back for days examining all the posts), it still bugs me when people say that 3 card interactions aren't useful.  They are.  Just very rarely.  Since for all we know there will be an infinite number of full random dominion games played in the future, these 3 cards will appear together again an infinite number of times. 

Again, I do agree that of course it will be VERY rare to see these three cards if you play full random. (Although not everybody does.  Lots of people play IRL)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1246 on: March 06, 2018, 06:23:30 pm »
+2

There's already another different thread for this specific thing, actually:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16947.0

I've been on the forums since september, and I didn't realize these were not the same thread until just now.
Those names are very similar.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1247 on: March 06, 2018, 06:25:56 pm »
0

There's already another different thread for this specific thing, actually:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16947.0

I've been on the forums since september, and I didn't realize these were not the same thread until just now.
Those names are very similar.
I actually never knew the difference either.  I'm sorry if I offended anyone by posting things in the wrong places
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1248 on: March 06, 2018, 06:28:36 pm »
+7

Don't be sorry for offending Awaclus.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1249 on: March 06, 2018, 06:59:36 pm »
+5

I've been on the forums since september, and I didn't realize these were not the same thread until just now.
Those names are very similar.
My feeling precisely.

If this thread is specifically for interactions between pairs of cards, and people care so very much about that, it kinda needs to be said in the subject line.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1250 on: March 06, 2018, 07:09:47 pm »
0

Stop posting Market Square + [trasher] gets lots of Gold. Yes. That's what Market Square does. It's not a combo, or particularly interesting.

Although I posted a three-card combo which is greater than the sum of its parts, I do believe each pair of within that triple also has neat features, albeit on a more modest scale.

Market Square and Monastery: if your hand contains two Monasteries and at least one Market Square, gaining Gold by playing the Monastery buffs the second.

Market Square and Rats: while the Market Squares are gaining Gold, the Rats are gaining more trashers. Yes, you obviously need an exit strategy that'll deal with all those Rats but in the meantime you get more uses out of Market Square more quickly than usual.

Quote
That said, I do kind of like Rats + Monastery.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1251 on: March 06, 2018, 07:29:58 pm »
+1

Stop posting Market Square + [trasher] gets lots of Gold. Yes. That's what Market Square does. It's not a combo, or particularly interesting.

Although I posted a three-card combo which is greater than the sum of its parts, I do believe each pair of within that triple also has neat features, albeit on a more modest scale.

Market Square and Monastery: if your hand contains two Monasteries and at least one Market Square, gaining Gold by playing the Monastery buffs the second.

Market Square and Rats: while the Market Squares are gaining Gold, the Rats are gaining more trashers. Yes, you obviously need an exit strategy that'll deal with all those Rats but in the meantime you get more uses out of Market Square more quickly than usual.

Quote
That said, I do kind of like Rats + Monastery.

Well a hand of Monastery / Monastery / Market Square / Copper / Copper is pretty sad because you need to find a card costing $2 or less to buy in order to activate any Monasteries, and then the Gold was unneeded to trash both Coppers. Having an Estate there instead of a Copper is even worse. Draw is necessary to make this interaction efficient, though that draw can be terminal.

If anything, it's more interesting to use Market Square's +Buy as a cheap way to get +buy to power up Monastery. After you are pretty thin, then you can think about triggering Market Square with Monastery for Gold. They take turns helping each other basically.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1252 on: March 06, 2018, 11:43:36 pm »
+1

Although I do agree that this thread is for 2 card interactions (Although you can't tell unless you scroll back for days examining all the posts), it still bugs me when people say that 3 card interactions aren't useful.  They are.

Trying to memorize all the 3-card interactions in the game is a waste of time compared to other stuff you could be doing to get better at the game.

I've been on the forums since september, and I didn't realize these were not the same thread until just now.
Those names are very similar.
My feeling precisely.

If this thread is specifically for interactions between pairs of cards, and people care so very much about that, it kinda needs to be said in the subject line.

Man, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to read the OP before posting in a thread, especially when the purpose of the thread is to memorize all the combos that get posted in it.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1253 on: March 07, 2018, 10:13:05 am »
+8

How about we just rank all possible 216,690 2-card combinations?

(Including Events, Hexes, Boons, and States).
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 10:21:36 am by GendoIkari »
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crj

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1254 on: March 07, 2018, 10:50:00 am »
+5

Man, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to read the OP before posting in a thread
Maybe; maybe not.

But it's definitely unreasonable to expect people to read the OP of a three-year-old thread again before posting in it when the subject line is both misleading and almost identical to that of another almost identical thread.

Quote
the purpose of the thread is to memorize all the combos that get posted in it
That ship probably sailed at least 40 screens ago.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1255 on: March 07, 2018, 10:52:46 am »
+1

That ship probably sailed at least 40 screens ago.

That's because people keep posting interactions that aren't useful.
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JThorne

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1256 on: March 07, 2018, 12:11:58 pm »
+2

I'd like to suggest a compromise:

CardA + CardB + [category] is a reasonable thing to post as a neat and potentially useful card interaction.

For example, Tunnel + Apprentice + [sifter] gets lots of free gold that Apprentice can use to draw large hands. Of course, that could be further generalized to Apprentice + [free gold] is good, but you get the point. There are enough sifters in the game to make a combination like that relevant. Likewise, categories like [+buy] or even [draw] are reasonable; there are certainly good two-card combinations that aren't good unless there is a third piece to the puzzle.

But even that compromise suggests a bigger-picture issue if you're thinking about posting a multi-card interaction.

In another thread, someone posted a video of a Dan Books turn 6 win as a result of something like a 4-card combination (Storeroom, Talisman, Villa, Peddler) He used Storeroom to put multiple Talismans together, did a buy-one-get-three Villa, Repeat until empty accumulating ridiculous buys, buy out the Peddler pile, then buy out a third cheap pile for a win (on Wolf den points, but could probably have pulled off a win on a couple of Estates instead.)

Posting that 4-card combination is useless, but the individual combinations are worth noting. But even then, the more general synergies are probably more important to get in your head than the specific combinations. Not Villa + Talisman, but Villa + [gainer], Peddler + buy, Talisman + buy, Talisman + sifting, Storeroom + special treasure, etc.

As a general rule, I would suggest to anyone thinking about posting in this thread, ask yourself this question: Is it really neat? As in, is there something unique that that two-card combination does? Could you not substitute another card for one of the others and achieve exactly the same result?

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1257 on: March 07, 2018, 01:31:37 pm »
+5

That ship probably sailed at least 40 screens ago.

That's because people keep posting interactions that aren't useful.

Maybe you need to make a thread called "useful interactions between exactly 2 cards, only expert players who know exactly what 'useful' means may post here"
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1258 on: March 07, 2018, 02:04:23 pm »
+2

Apprentice + [Gold gainer] is quite nice, but don't let this blind you from realising that Apprentice + Market Square stands high above the average Gold gainer.
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Re: What does "useful" mean? What is a "neat" card interaction? Why do I care?
« Reply #1259 on: March 07, 2018, 04:28:37 pm »
0

Why do we need qualifiers? We should just start a thread called simply "Dominion card interactions".
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Re: What does "useful" mean? What is a "neat" card interaction? Why do I care?
« Reply #1260 on: March 07, 2018, 04:48:31 pm »
0

Why do we need qualifiers? We should just start a thread called simply "Dominion card interactions".

Because we need a thread whose entire contents people can memorize to get better at the game. Posting your fun moments is fine and all, but can't we have just one thread whose goal is to actually make people improve at Dominion?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 04:49:37 pm by Awaclus »
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Re: What does "useful" mean? What is a "neat" card interaction? Why do I care?
« Reply #1261 on: March 07, 2018, 05:23:30 pm »
+1

Why do we need qualifiers? We should just start a thread called simply "Dominion card interactions".

Because we need a thread whose entire contents people can memorize to get better at the game. Posting your fun moments is fine and all, but can't we have just one thread whose goal is to actually make people improve at Dominion?

I really like that IDEA, but forums are not ideal for storing information. 
Sometimes you'll get an enthusiastic sir that will continuously edit their own first post with each update, but that rarely lasts long.

Seems like you would want a thread where people can discuss the interactions they've found, and a few warriors that will regularly update an "every 2-card synergy" page on the wiki. 
The wiki would allow multiple people and new people to join in on the maintenance, and for someone like me, would allow hovering to see what each card is.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 05:25:55 pm by weesh »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1262 on: March 07, 2018, 05:24:19 pm »
+4

Quote
Posting your fun moments is fine and all, but can't we have just one thread whose goal is to actually make people improve at Dominion?

Discussion and debate is part of the process. I've learned quite a bit from someone posting something not all that great and being hog-piled by experts telling them why it's not that great.

What I would really like to see, though, is a compilation of actually good stuff from this thread (and others) that makes it into the wiki in a nice, clean, simplified version.

It's definitely worth listing interactions that are neat and interesting that don't rise to the level of "combo" but are nevertheless useful. There's a TON of stuff in this thread that would be far more useful on the wiki than Golem + Counting House.
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Re: What does "useful" mean? What is a "neat" card interaction? Why do I care?
« Reply #1263 on: March 07, 2018, 05:46:29 pm »
+5

Because we need a thread whose entire contents people can memorize to get better at the game.
The fact that "memorise a lot of granular information" isn't synonymous with "become good at a game" is one of the reasons I prefer Dominion over, say, Chess.
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Re: What does "useful" mean? What is a "neat" card interaction? Why do I care?
« Reply #1264 on: March 07, 2018, 05:55:14 pm »
0

Why do we need qualifiers? We should just start a thread called simply "Dominion card interactions".

Because we need a thread whose entire contents people can memorize to get better at the game. Posting your fun moments is fine and all, but can't we have just one thread whose goal is to actually make people improve at Dominion?

I feel like the way to do this is to have the OP continually kept up to date with the interactions that qualify as useful that people have mentioned. Any other system requires people to read through 26 pages of posts, deciding for themselves which ones are useful or not. If the idea is to have a simple list that can be memorized; that list needs to be all in 1 post.

Think of it as the Qvist card rankings. People like to see the results posted after everyone's input has been gathered up and aggregated. It wouldn't be very useful if everyone just had to look at every person's submissions and calculate on their own which cards are better than which other cards.

*Edit* Just saw Weesh's reply; yeah the Wiki would serve much better than a continually-updated OP.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1265 on: March 07, 2018, 05:58:04 pm »
+3

Someone could even organise a card interactions ranking!
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Re: What does "useful" mean? What is a "neat" card interaction? Why do I care?
« Reply #1266 on: March 07, 2018, 06:43:56 pm »
+1

I'm pretty sure Awaclus was being facetious about memorizing card interactions, but I could be wrong.

BTW, I finally went back and looked at the OP. This thread didn't do so well at the beginning, but has been doing great recently until this diversion. I didn't know there was a 2-card restriction, but it seemed like that's what people were posting, and it makes sense.

I rarely look at the wiki for card combos, but I regularly read this thread. It's searchable and you have a lot of context for how good the interaction is (feedback, who posted it, how many upvotes, WHO upvoted it) that you don't have on a wiki.

Like, Chancellor/Stash is listed on the wiki right next to Capital/Mandarin.

In any case, the transitory nature of posts here is a bitter fit for how consequential most of these are. If they are really good, and really important, they'll probably get their own article, or at least get discussed frequently enough to be widely seen.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 06:53:36 pm by Cave-o-sapien »
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Awaclus

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Re: What does "useful" mean? What is a "neat" card interaction? Why do I care?
« Reply #1267 on: March 07, 2018, 06:55:30 pm »
+2

I'm pretty sure Awaclus was being facetious about memorizing card interactions, but I could be wrong.

For each card, I literally (try to) remember all the relevant 2-card combinations it has. As a result, it takes me seconds to analyze kingdoms that would otherwise take minutes. As a result of that, I make better decisions during the game because I didn't waste the entirety of my attention span analyzing the kingdom at the start of the game. I wrote an article about this too: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18108.0
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1268 on: March 07, 2018, 07:03:19 pm »
0

I'm pretty sure Awaclus was being facetious about memorizing card interactions, but I could be wrong.

For each card, I literally (try to) remember all the relevant 2-card combinations it has. As a result, it takes me seconds to analyze kingdoms that would otherwise take minutes. As a result of that, I make better decisions during the game because I didn't waste the entirety of my attention span analyzing the kingdom at the start of the game. I wrote an article about this too: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18108.0

I remember that article. But I got the sense that you were fitting cards into archetypes and analyzing the combinations of those archetypes, rather than doing a mental query of specific card combos. I guess it's something in between?

"Capital... is Counterfeit/Herbalist/Mandarin present?"

The trick seems to be your "key card" ranking that you make when analyzing the kingdom.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 07:06:10 pm by Cave-o-sapien »
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Awaclus

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1269 on: March 07, 2018, 07:48:49 pm »
0

I'm pretty sure Awaclus was being facetious about memorizing card interactions, but I could be wrong.

For each card, I literally (try to) remember all the relevant 2-card combinations it has. As a result, it takes me seconds to analyze kingdoms that would otherwise take minutes. As a result of that, I make better decisions during the game because I didn't waste the entirety of my attention span analyzing the kingdom at the start of the game. I wrote an article about this too: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18108.0

I remember that article. But I got the sense that you were fitting cards into archetypes and analyzing the combinations of those archetypes, rather than doing a mental query of specific card combos. I guess it's something in between?

"Capital... is Counterfeit/Herbalist/Mandarin present?"

The trick seems to be your "key card" ranking that you make when analyzing the kingdom.

Well, this is getting a bit tangential, but I try to abstract as much as I can. For some things, you have to do specific card + specific card, but for some others, you can do specific card + archetype or archetype + archetype, and then you just have to remember all the archetypes that each card is. Also the result of that can be a key thing on its own (e.g. Capital + Mandarin), or it can actually just be another thing that fits into a certain archetype (e.g. Capital + Counterfeit = payload).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1270 on: March 08, 2018, 03:46:38 pm »
+11

To get back on subject, here's a 3-card combo:
Sauna | Avanto | Leprechaun
3 Saunas and 3 Avantos (or 3/2 and whatever else) are a pretty good way to have Lep be your 7th card, with still having actions left. And Sauna/Silver can clean up any unwanted Golds.

EDIT: I guess Silver makes this a 4-card combo - does it still count?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 03:48:35 pm by Dingan »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1271 on: March 08, 2018, 10:02:06 pm »
+4

To get back on subject, here's a 3-card combo:
Sauna | Avanto | Leprechaun
3 Saunas and 3 Avantos (or 3/2 and whatever else) are a pretty good way to have Lep be your 7th card, with still having actions left. And Sauna/Silver can clean up any unwanted Golds.

EDIT: I guess Silver makes this a 4-card combo - does it still count?

It's still "potentially useful," since Silver is in every kingdom and Saunavanto is a single pile.

If we really want to be pendantic, though, the native plural is "avannot."
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1272 on: March 09, 2018, 06:17:50 am »
+6

Let's do more actual content!

Orchard/Stonemason

A nice thing you should look out for in the endgame is that this can give you 4 VP for $4. Of course Stonemason generally works well with Orchard.
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Chase Adolphson

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1273 on: March 11, 2018, 06:05:06 pm »
0

Chancellor/counting house
All of your coppers go into your discard pile
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JThorne

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1274 on: March 11, 2018, 06:23:53 pm »
+2

Quote
Chancellor/counting house
All of your coppers go into your discard pile

What is this "Chancellor" of which you speak?

Oh, you meant Messenger/Counting House! And it even comes with +buy to take advantage of all that extra coin, and it comes with a free Copper for you and your opponent! And early you can even use the +buy to buy extra Coppers to make Counting House even better!

Ouch, I think I just sprained the sarcasm lobe of my brain.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 06:28:07 pm by JThorne »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1275 on: March 11, 2018, 06:39:37 pm »
0

Quote
Chancellor/counting house
All of your coppers go into your discard pile

What is this "Chancellor" of which you speak?

Oh, you meant Messenger/Counting House! And it even comes with +buy to take advantage of all that extra coin, and it comes with a free Copper for you and your opponent! And early you can even use the +buy to buy extra Coppers to make Counting House even better!

Ouch, I think I just sprained the sarcasm lobe of my brain.


I was thinking that this combo needs an extra buy but I couldn't think of any put your deck into your discard pile with + buy. But now I realized that I was being stupid and totally forgot about messenger. Yeah, messenger/counting house would be a really fun combo to try.
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JThorne

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1276 on: March 11, 2018, 06:50:18 pm »
+4

Quote
I was thinking that this combo needs an extra buy but I couldn't think of any put your deck into your discard pile with + buy. But now I realized that I was being stupid and totally forgot about messenger. Yeah, messenger/counting house would be a really fun combo to try.

Um...geez...I hate to be the first, but...are you doing this on purpose? I mean, "Chase Aldolphson" is a pretty good troll name, but honestly, the shenanigans are getting a little thin. If you're really, truly as clueless as your messages imply then you need to do quite a bit more reading and studying before you post. If not, well, your particular brand of trolling is considerably less entertaining that roadrunner's Scout fetish. Which is a low bar.

At first, I just thought "newb" but now it's really starting to look more and more like a shtick. Then again, I'm a little slow and can take a while to catch on. I even tried Golem/Counting House once. Once.

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Eran of Arcadia

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1277 on: March 12, 2018, 12:32:40 pm »
+1

Uh, Armory/Ghost was kind of fun when I used it in my last RL game.
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Chase Adolphson

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1278 on: March 12, 2018, 07:58:35 pm »
0

Uh, Armory/Ghost was kind of fun when I used it in my last RL game.


That actually sounds pretty fun. I'll have to try that.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1279 on: March 17, 2018, 07:30:17 am »
+1

Quote
I was thinking that this combo needs an extra buy but I couldn't think of any put your deck into your discard pile with + buy. But now I realized that I was being stupid and totally forgot about messenger. Yeah, messenger/counting house would be a really fun combo to try.

Um...geez...I hate to be the first, but...are you doing this on purpose? I mean, "Chase Aldolphson" is a pretty good troll name, but honestly, the shenanigans are getting a little thin. If you're really, truly as clueless as your messages imply then you need to do quite a bit more reading and studying before you post. If not, well, your particular brand of trolling is considerably less entertaining that roadrunner's Scout fetish. Which is a low bar.

At first, I just thought "newb" but now it's really starting to look more and more like a shtick. Then again, I'm a little slow and can take a while to catch on. I even tried Golem/Counting House once. Once.

According to Chases profile he is 13, which seems.. plausible.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1280 on: March 23, 2018, 02:25:37 am »
+5

Sage / Will-o-Wisp
Play all your Sages -> Draw all >=3's -> Discard all <3's -> Play all your Wisps -> Draw all <3's
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1282 on: March 23, 2018, 10:38:37 am »
+2

it may be not the muhammed ali of all combos but harbinger and training turned out like a really good chain fishing all the harbinger out of the dust and playing them...
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1283 on: March 23, 2018, 12:02:05 pm »
0

Quote
I was thinking that this combo needs an extra buy but I couldn't think of any put your deck into your discard pile with + buy. But now I realized that I was being stupid and totally forgot about messenger. Yeah, messenger/counting house would be a really fun combo to try.

Um...geez...I hate to be the first,

You're not. More like the third.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 12:09:47 pm by GendoIkari »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1284 on: March 23, 2018, 12:07:25 pm »
0

Take a look at the timestamps.

(And I know JThorne came before me, because I didn't want to be the first!)
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GendoIkari

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1285 on: March 23, 2018, 12:09:33 pm »
0

Take a look at the timestamps.

(And I know JThorne came before me, because I didn't want to be the first!)

Strange, I thought I was replying to a brand new post; because somehow I hadn't seen it before just now.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1286 on: March 23, 2018, 03:10:22 pm »
+1

Exorcist / Quarry

Trash Estate, gain Imp

Sorry to derail your fun, but I have a question about the above. I must be having a brain freeze.

Quarry reduces the cost of Action cards by 2. How does trashing an Estate here get an Imp?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1287 on: March 23, 2018, 03:13:48 pm »
+2

Exorcist / Quarry

Trash Estate, gain Imp

Sorry to derail your fun, but I have a question about the above. I must be having a brain freeze.

Quarry reduces the cost of Action cards by 2. How does trashing an Estate here get an Imp?

While Quarry is in play, Estate costs and Imp costs . Exorcist lets you gain a cheaper Spirit, and Quarry makes Imp cheaper than Estate.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1288 on: March 23, 2018, 03:32:51 pm »
0

Thank you. I knew I was missing something!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1289 on: March 24, 2018, 12:37:46 pm »
+11

Whatever ChaseAnderson is, it's not like he's insulting people or being exceptionally rude (or is he?). If we can stomach Mine/Mint and Moat jokes, we can stomach a youngster who I'm actually pretty certain just wants to participate.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1290 on: March 29, 2018, 03:37:21 am »
0

Sage / Will-o-Wisp
Play all your Sages -> Draw all >=3's -> Discard all <3's -> Play all your Wisps -> Draw all <3's
Only problem is when you're starting out with only Sages!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1291 on: March 29, 2018, 07:40:52 am »
0

I recently got Seaside. One of the recommended kingdoms is the following:
 



I've played it twice; in the early game I would get Ghost Ship, Sea Hag, Warehouse and a Native Village or two. The sifting of Warehouse, the knowledge that I have a Curse on top thanks to Sea Hag, and a bit of luck means my NVs would set aside more or less only junk while I was busy attacking my opponent and buying the odd Silver.

Around the time the curses were out, I'd pick up Salvager, Treasury and Gold in some mix, trashing Sea Hag and using Salvager to turn my deck into Provinces.

The neat part is trashing NV with Salvager.

I figure that "If you trash your NVs, you have effectively trashed the cards on your mat" is not a novel idea.

The fact that you want to transition from a deck with a village or two to a deck with a bunch of money and a few Salvagers, right around the time where NV becomes less attractive to play (in either mode), is what makes the Salvager/NV interaction neat, and that feature is quite kingdom-specific.

I find it particularly neat that NV will happily "trash" cards that Salvager is sad to trash and vice versa—and NV will succeed at it with good probability. Also, Salvager is terminal which is fine in the end-game while NV is anti-terminal which is great in the early game.

The complementarity is strong with these ones.

(I think I opened 5/2 in both my games, which makes getting Ghost Ship rather easy; it probably plays out differently if I open Silver/Sea Hag.)
« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 07:42:02 am by jonaskoelker »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1292 on: April 11, 2018, 01:34:52 am »
+7

Doctor / Changeling

I guess you can do the overpay for Doctor, and then exchange the Doctor for a Changeling. So assuming you want Changelings, you can Doctor overpay a bunch.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1293 on: April 13, 2018, 03:45:16 am »
0

Doctor / Changeling

I guess you can do the overpay for Doctor, and then exchange the Doctor for a Changeling. So assuming you want Changelings, you can Doctor overpay a bunch.

That works.  :)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1294 on: April 14, 2018, 04:46:23 am »
+3

Salt the Earth/Crumbling Castle

Would you like your Silver to come with 2 VP?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1295 on: April 14, 2018, 11:49:48 am »
0

Salt the Earth/Crumbling Castle

Would you like your Silver to come with 2 VP?

Strictly better Harem?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1296 on: April 14, 2018, 12:30:40 pm »
+4

Salt the Earth/Crumbling Castle

Would you like your Silver to come with 2 VP?

Strictly better Harem?

Soon to come:

- edge cases
- more edge cases
- edge cases involving loan
- someone will explain why loan is underrated
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1297 on: April 14, 2018, 02:19:28 pm »
0

Salt the Earth/Crumbling Castle

Would you like your Silver to come with 2 VP?

Strictly better Harem?


Why is it better than harem?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1298 on: April 14, 2018, 02:32:07 pm »
0

Salt the Earth/Crumbling Castle

Would you like your Silver to come with 2 VP?

Strictly better Harem?

Why is it better than harem?

Well, it's cheaper. Plus if you trash the Silver you keep the VP. (I admit this is a fairly... non-strict use of "strictly better".)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1299 on: April 15, 2018, 07:54:41 am »
+3

Soon to come:

- edge cases
- more edge cases
- edge cases involving loan
- someone will explain why loan is underrated

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1300 on: April 15, 2018, 03:10:06 pm »
+4

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1301 on: April 15, 2018, 03:24:23 pm »
+1

Borrow, Diplomat, and topdecking.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1302 on: April 15, 2018, 03:32:00 pm »
+3

Strictly better Harem?
Soon to come:
- more edge cases



What's that? Some kind of fan card version of Ruined Village?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1303 on: April 19, 2018, 03:02:56 pm »
+3

Pooka + Donate: Buy a $5 card with Cursed Gold and then Donate before you see the Curse.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1304 on: April 19, 2018, 03:08:22 pm »
+1

Pooka + Donate: Buy a $5 card with Cursed Gold and then Donate before you see the Curse.

I guess the practical application of this is to play CG to buy Donate on turn 1 and then get rid of everything except 5-6 Coppers, and potentially buy a $3 on turn 2.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1305 on: April 20, 2018, 12:37:45 am »
0

Pooka + Donate: Buy a $5 card with Cursed Gold and then Donate before you see the Curse.

I guess the practical application of this is to play CG to buy Donate on turn 1 and then get rid of everything except 5-6 Coppers, and potentially buy a $3 on turn 2.


I like lyles way better because you can just get a gold with cg and 3 coppers then donate trash everything except gold then use gold to get silver and then just go from there.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1306 on: April 20, 2018, 03:33:39 am »
0

I like lyles way better because you can just get a gold with cg and 3 coppers then donate trash everything except gold then use gold to get silver and then just go from there.

That's really slow. You want to keep at least 5 Coppers around on your first Donate, and you generally want that Donate to happen on turn 1.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1307 on: April 20, 2018, 09:56:36 am »
0

I like lyles way better because you can just get a gold with cg and 3 coppers then donate trash everything except gold then use gold to get silver and then just go from there.

That's really slow. You want to keep at least 5 Coppers around on your first Donate, and you generally want that Donate to happen on turn 1.


I like to do donate at about turn 5 and trash every copper and every estate. My dad did the strategy that you said and I won badly because he had coppers cluttering up his deck.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1308 on: April 20, 2018, 10:52:02 am »
0

I like lyles way better because you can just get a gold with cg and 3 coppers then donate trash everything except gold then use gold to get silver and then just go from there.

That's really slow. You want to keep at least 5 Coppers around on your first Donate, and you generally want that Donate to happen on turn 1.


I like to do donate at about turn 5 and trash every copper and every estate. My dad did the strategy that you said and I won badly because he had coppers cluttering up his deck.

It's good to get rid of your Estates as soon as possible because getting rid of an Estate is ridiculously good for your economy. It's not good to get rid of your Coppers as soon as possible because Coppers are also good for your economy, combined with draw. That's why it's better to Donate t1 to trash the Estates, and get rid of the Coppers little by little throughout the game using a different trasher, or buy another Donate later on in the game, or just build enough draw to draw all the Coppers in some rare cases.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1309 on: April 20, 2018, 11:00:38 am »
0

I like lyles way better because you can just get a gold with cg and 3 coppers then donate trash everything except gold then use gold to get silver and then just go from there.

That's really slow. You want to keep at least 5 Coppers around on your first Donate, and you generally want that Donate to happen on turn 1.


I like to do donate at about turn 5 and trash every copper and every estate. My dad did the strategy that you said and I won badly because he had coppers cluttering up his deck.

It's good to get rid of your Estates as soon as possible because getting rid of an Estate is ridiculously good for your economy. It's not good to get rid of your Coppers as soon as possible because Coppers are also good for your economy, combined with draw. That's why it's better to Donate t1 to trash the Estates, and get rid of the Coppers little by little throughout the game using a different trasher, or buy another Donate later on in the game, or just build enough draw to draw all the Coppers in some rare cases.

Cursed Gold might change the intuition here, but yeah you can Donate Turn 1 and keep 5 Coppers, then buy something costing $5 on turn 3. You should look for a trasher or a second Donate soon after as Awaclus said.

The Cursed Gold + Donate opening I envision would be spending Cursed Gold to Donate Turn 1, but keep the Cursed Gold and some Coppers to buy a remodeler like Upgrade or Remake Turn 2. This lets you turn the Cursed Gold into a $5 cost card, except now you have a Remodeler to go along with it that will let you trash the remaining cards Donate didn't trash.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1310 on: April 20, 2018, 02:06:12 pm »
+1

Hmm. If you've got Cursed Gold, Donate and Upgrade in the kingdom, a baseline if you draw CG on turn 1 might be:
  • Donate everything except Cursed Gold and 2 more Coppers than you need to clear the debt
  • Pay off debt, gain Curse, buy Upgrade
  • Upgrade away curse, gain Curse, buy Gold
  • Upgrade CG to Upgrade, buy Gold
  • Upgrade away Curse and Copper, buy Province
  • Upgrade Upgrade to Gold, buy Province
  • Upgrade away Copper, buy Province
  • ...
That's getting a Province a turn from T5 onwards, but it would be a pretty peculiar kingdom if the other cards didn't offer the opportunity to do even better! (And now someone's going to show how to do better, or just make the above more reliable, even with only CG, Upgrade and Donate.)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1311 on: April 25, 2018, 03:35:49 am »
+1

Temple / Banquet

Temple x 2 -> Banquet-Temple gives at least 4VP per turn until the Temples run out. Useful in games with:
- no additional gaining
- strong engine/reliability support
- engine chokes on Provinces
- opponent is playing a Temple every turn but not gaining any

And then once the Temples run out ..

Temple / Conquest

Also 4VP per turn, until Silvers run out -- play 2 Temples every turn, replenishing them with a Conquest buy (assuming you have $6).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1312 on: May 02, 2018, 11:06:57 am »
+6

Den of Sin/Horn of Plenty

Gain lots of Den of Sins through Horns of Plenty, then have your megaturn and gain all the Provinces. Probably one of the strongest HoP enablers out there.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1313 on: May 04, 2018, 12:05:32 am »
+5

Plan + Changeling

Put Plan on a + card you can buy on turn 2 that you want at least one copy of.  Then, later in the game, you can buy that card to get the trash - but exchange it for a Changeling.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1314 on: May 04, 2018, 11:16:22 am »
0

Hmm. That one feels like a workaround for an unnecessary restriction. I wonder if, with Nocturne hindsight, it might have made more sense for Plan to say "non-Victory" rather than "Action"?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1315 on: May 04, 2018, 12:47:27 pm »
+1

Hmm. That one feels like a workaround for an unnecessary restriction. I wonder if, with Nocturne hindsight, it might have made more sense for Plan to say "non-Victory" rather than "Action"?

you wouldn't be able to plan on mill then.
and sometimes you want a 3$ card more than you want a slow changeling.
changelings are weak early, when you have low density of good cards in your deck.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1316 on: May 04, 2018, 12:49:31 pm »
0

Den of Sin/Horn of Plenty

Gain lots of Den of Sins through Horns of Plenty, then have your megaturn and gain all the Provinces. Probably one of the strongest HoP enablers out there.

For this to work, Dens would have to be ignored for much of the game, no?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1317 on: May 04, 2018, 01:10:18 pm »
0

Den of Sin/Horn of Plenty

Gain lots of Den of Sins through Horns of Plenty, then have your megaturn and gain all the Provinces. Probably one of the strongest HoP enablers out there.

For this to work, Dens would have to be ignored for much of the game, no?

If Horn is the only gainer, then you can use this interaction to punish a player that ignores Horn.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1318 on: May 09, 2018, 09:44:40 am »
+2

Dismantle/Fountain

Trash your Estates for 3 Gold and 3 Coppers and 15 VP.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1319 on: May 09, 2018, 11:04:33 am »
+3

Will-o-wisp and Bandit Camp.  Spoils cost 0, so will-o-wisp picks them up! Plus I got the WOW from pixie, which means goat ate everything else, so WOW was pretty consistently a lab.

Druid (Swamp) + Bandit Camp

This is one to look out for when Druid has Swamp's Gift. Wisps and mid-turn-gained Spoils (+more Wisps) is really nice.

On top of that, Druid gives you +Buy!

« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 11:05:49 am by Cave-o-sapien »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1320 on: May 12, 2018, 01:14:05 pm »
+12

Not useful, but certainly neat.

When you play an Enchantress, it covers the first Action card played during a turn... Which includes a Werewolf in the Night Phase.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1321 on: May 12, 2018, 07:06:05 pm »
+4

Horse Traders + Villa

Struggling to get the full +$3 from your Horse Traders because it keeps forcing you to discard treasures? End actions without playing the Horse Traders, buy a Villa, play the Villa, then play the Horse Traders for the full amount.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1322 on: May 12, 2018, 08:37:34 pm »
+6

Horse Traders + Villa

Struggling to get the full +$3 from your Horse Traders because it keeps forcing you to discard treasures? End actions without playing the Horse Traders, buy a Villa, play the Villa, then play the Horse Traders for the full amount.
Hopefully you want the Villa - as this still leaves you a net of $0
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1323 on: June 02, 2018, 02:02:01 pm »
+1

Unsurprisingly, Castles/Shepherd is a pretty good combo.
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1324 on: June 04, 2018, 04:07:06 am »
0

Unsurprisingly, Castles/Shepherd is a pretty good combo.

Rebuild + Shepherd also works well.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1325 on: June 05, 2018, 10:24:26 am »
+1

Not useful, but certainly neat.

When you play an Enchantress, it covers the first Action card played during a turn... Which includes a Werewolf in the Night Phase.

Or a Crown in the Buy phase, right?
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William Howard Taft

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1326 on: June 09, 2018, 11:54:25 am »
+2

Turns out Tracker is a wonderful target for Prince. An extra $1, a Boon at the start of each turn, and top-decking ability for the rest of the game is all very handy.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1327 on: June 11, 2018, 02:24:51 pm »
+14

Bishop + Bonfire

There's a pretty fast golden deck here (faster and more reliable than the Chapel + Bishop golden deck).  So, if there aren't any disruptive attacks, you might want to go for it.

Turn 1-2: Buy Bishop + Bonfire
Turn 3-4: Trash 1 Estate and exactly 3 additional cards.  Usually, this comes about with one Bishop trash and two Bonfire purchases, trashing only one Copper on the second purchase.  You can also get there with two Bishop trashes and one Bonfire purchase.  Sometimes, this doesn't work out and you are delayed one turn.

Deck: Bishop, 2 Estates, 2 Coppers

Turn 5: Trash Estate, Buy Silver
Turn 6: Trash Estate, Buy Silver
Turn 7: Trash Copper, Buy Gold
Turn 8: Trash Copper, Buy Province
Turn 9+: Trash Province, Buy Province

Your VP after turn 8 is 14-15, then you get 5 VP per turn and end the game on turn 15 with 49-50 VP.  Add 1 turn to these totals if you aren't fortunate enough to trash to a 5-card hand by turn 5.
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jomini

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1328 on: June 11, 2018, 08:52:26 pm »
+1

I like lyles way better because you can just get a gold with cg and 3 coppers then donate trash everything except gold then use gold to get silver and then just go from there.

That's really slow. You want to keep at least 5 Coppers around on your first Donate, and you generally want that Donate to happen on turn 1.

I have actually done a real T1 Donate =)


Pouch/Courtier. T2 was $3/gold; pay off 4 debt. T3 was $3/gold, pay off 4 debt, buy a Shanty.

There are even a few $3s (e.g. Dev on the right board) or $4s (e.g. basically every time with Dismantle) that would would be a T1 Pouch/Donate. I would even Donate on $2 with something crazy like Page or Peasant. (particularly if the opponent buys a gainer).



I would say that in general Pouch/Donate is a very strong combo a lot of the time. You can both gain a useful card and Donate in the opening. This is particularly clutch if you have some $3/4 (e.g. Fortress/Dev, Prssn/Wshop) combo you want to run or if you get lucky enough to hit $5 with the Pouch in that hand and have a power $5 out (e.g. Courtier, Gov). It gifts you at least half a turn which is a massive speed up in already fast games.


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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1329 on: July 12, 2018, 12:22:53 pm »
0

Mint + Pooka / Cursed Gold

A mint opening will always be possible with CG, and in all but the CG/C/3E + 5C situations, it will take out your CG before the 1st shuffle at the cost of gaining just one Curse. There might be boards where this isn't what you want to do, but I don't think there will be that many of them. I had the CG/2C/2E + 3C/ML/E opening split and opened Mnt/Slv. A deck of 3E/3C/MLamp/Slv/Mnt/Crs got underway pretty nicely as I quickly picked up a Lookout and Market Square, used them to gain a gold, and was able to activate MLamp and buy a Wharf pretty quickly and Wish my way into a 2nd Wharf and 2 more Golds. MktSq and Lkt helped me trim down a bit more and get a 4th Gold and I just walked that home (there was no splitter of any sort). It seems to me that such an opening would be very nice on most boards.

NOTE - Edited as I'd got my opening split wrong for the example
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 10:36:27 am by cascadestyler »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1330 on: July 12, 2018, 12:46:48 pm »
+1

Charm plus two of City Quarter, Overlord, and Royal Blacksmith. Normally one of Charm’s weaknesses is that it takes a while before you can afford a strong (typically $5) card while playing Charm for the gain effect. With debt cards that is never an issue. And it’s all cards from one set so it seems particularly likely to come up in IRL games.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1331 on: July 12, 2018, 12:59:18 pm »
0

Mint + Pooka / Cursed Gold

A mint opening will always be possible with CG, and in all but the CG/C/3E + 5C situations, it will take out your CG before the 1st shuffle at the cost of gaining just one Curse. There might be boards where this isn't what you want to do, but I don't think there will be that many of them. I had the CG/C/MLamp/2E + 4C/E opening split and opened Mnt/Slv. A deck of 3E/3C/MLamp/Slv/Mnt/Crs got underway pretty nicely as I quickly picked up a Lookout and Market Square, used them to gain a gold, and was able to activate MLamp and buy a Wharf pretty quickly and Wish my way into a 2nd Wharf and 2 more Golds. MktSq and Lkt helped me trim down a bit more and get a 4th Gold and I just walked that home (there was no splitter of any sort). It seems to me that such an opening would be very nice on most boards.

I fail to see how getting rid of Cursed Gold to replace it with an actual Curse is good. As always with Mint, its strength is getting rid of Coppers, and Cursed Gold allows you to do that earlier at the cost of a Curse... and a Mint. Now you have a deck of three Estates, a Curse, a Mint, and at least two Coppers. Although in this case Cursed Gold was worse than Copper, as a hand of five Copper can buy Mint just as well without getting a Curse. Or perhaps you drew CG together with 3 Coppers. Well, now your deck is still mostly junk. I guess you can buy Mint with a Cg/C/C opening, but honestly, I'd rather just have a trasher that helps me get rid of the non-money junk.

The real interaction here seems to be centered around Mint, Market Square and Lookout. Similar to, let's say, Mint, Tunnel and uh, Navigator.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1332 on: July 12, 2018, 01:11:09 pm »
+1

Charm plus two of City Quarter, Overlord, and Royal Blacksmith[...]
I've just noticed: unlike Talisman and Stonemason, Charm works on Victory cards. I've not tried it, but using Charm to gain a Duke when you buy a Duchy or vice-versa seems like it would be a pretty neat trick.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1333 on: July 12, 2018, 01:14:57 pm »
+1

Charm plus two of City Quarter, Overlord, and Royal Blacksmith[...]
I've just noticed: unlike Talisman and Stonemason, Charm works on Victory cards. I've not tried it, but using Charm to gain a Duke when you buy a Duchy or vice-versa seems like it would be a pretty neat trick.

You can use a lot of charms to buy a prince and gain hella lot of provinces
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1334 on: July 12, 2018, 01:34:34 pm »
0

I had the CG/C/MLamp/2E + 4C/E opening split and opened Mnt/Slv.

I'm confused about how you did this without trashing the Lamp to the Mint. Was this a Baker board? CG+C only gives $4 on its own.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1335 on: July 13, 2018, 10:35:57 am »
0

I had the CG/C/MLamp/2E + 4C/E opening split and opened Mnt/Slv.

I'm confused about how you did this without trashing the Lamp to the Mint. Was this a Baker board? CG+C only gives $4 on its own.

Good confusion. My opening split actually was CG/2C/2E and 3C/ML/E

I'll edit my post. Thanks.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1336 on: July 13, 2018, 10:40:54 am »
+1

Mint + Pooka / Cursed Gold

A mint opening will always be possible with CG, and in all but the CG/C/3E + 5C situations, it will take out your CG before the 1st shuffle at the cost of gaining just one Curse. There might be boards where this isn't what you want to do, but I don't think there will be that many of them. I had the CG/C/MLamp/2E + 4C/E opening split and opened Mnt/Slv. A deck of 3E/3C/MLamp/Slv/Mnt/Crs got underway pretty nicely as I quickly picked up a Lookout and Market Square, used them to gain a gold, and was able to activate MLamp and buy a Wharf pretty quickly and Wish my way into a 2nd Wharf and 2 more Golds. MktSq and Lkt helped me trim down a bit more and get a 4th Gold and I just walked that home (there was no splitter of any sort). It seems to me that such an opening would be very nice on most boards.

I fail to see how getting rid of Cursed Gold to replace it with an actual Curse is good. As always with Mint, its strength is getting rid of Coppers, and Cursed Gold allows you to do that earlier at the cost of a Curse... and a Mint. Now you have a deck of three Estates, a Curse, a Mint, and at least two Coppers. Although in this case Cursed Gold was worse than Copper, as a hand of five Copper can buy Mint just as well without getting a Curse. Or perhaps you drew CG together with 3 Coppers. Well, now your deck is still mostly junk. I guess you can buy Mint with a Cg/C/C opening, but honestly, I'd rather just have a trasher that helps me get rid of the non-money junk.

The real interaction here seems to be centered around Mint, Market Square and Lookout. Similar to, let's say, Mint, Tunnel and uh, Navigator.

You may be right - but I think you're interpreting my understanding of the benefit slightly wrong. I'm not saying Mint is a great way to trash CG, but that CG means you're going to be able to open Mint, and thus trash coppers, in any opening (though I'm not sure you'd want to on 5C vs CG/C/3E unless there's, say, Remake). It may well be that this is only normally useful on CG/3C/E (and that it only worked well for me on CG/2C/2E because of the Lookout/Msq side of things), but, even then, that's a huge improvement on only being able to do it on 5C and needing a convenient $2 on the board to boot, which is the standard Mint opening situation.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1337 on: July 13, 2018, 10:56:55 am »
+1

Mint + Pooka / Cursed Gold

A mint opening will always be possible with CG, and in all but the CG/C/3E + 5C situations, it will take out your CG before the 1st shuffle at the cost of gaining just one Curse. There might be boards where this isn't what you want to do, but I don't think there will be that many of them. I had the CG/C/MLamp/2E + 4C/E opening split and opened Mnt/Slv. A deck of 3E/3C/MLamp/Slv/Mnt/Crs got underway pretty nicely as I quickly picked up a Lookout and Market Square, used them to gain a gold, and was able to activate MLamp and buy a Wharf pretty quickly and Wish my way into a 2nd Wharf and 2 more Golds. MktSq and Lkt helped me trim down a bit more and get a 4th Gold and I just walked that home (there was no splitter of any sort). It seems to me that such an opening would be very nice on most boards.

I fail to see how getting rid of Cursed Gold to replace it with an actual Curse is good. As always with Mint, its strength is getting rid of Coppers, and Cursed Gold allows you to do that earlier at the cost of a Curse... and a Mint. Now you have a deck of three Estates, a Curse, a Mint, and at least two Coppers. Although in this case Cursed Gold was worse than Copper, as a hand of five Copper can buy Mint just as well without getting a Curse. Or perhaps you drew CG together with 3 Coppers. Well, now your deck is still mostly junk. I guess you can buy Mint with a Cg/C/C opening, but honestly, I'd rather just have a trasher that helps me get rid of the non-money junk.

The real interaction here seems to be centered around Mint, Market Square and Lookout. Similar to, let's say, Mint, Tunnel and uh, Navigator.

You may be right - but I think you're interpreting my understanding of the benefit slightly wrong. I'm not saying Mint is a great way to trash CG, but that CG means you're going to be able to open Mint, and thus trash coppers, in any opening (though I'm not sure you'd want to on 5C vs CG/C/3E unless there's, say, Remake). It may well be that this is only normally useful on CG/3C/E (and that it only worked well for me on CG/2C/2E because of the Lookout/Msq side of things), but, even then, that's a huge improvement on only being able to do it on 5C and needing a convenient $2 on the board to boot, which is the standard Mint opening situation.
Another problem is that Cursed Gold boards always have Pooka, i.e. a good use for your Coppers, which makes Mint even less attractive.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1338 on: July 26, 2018, 12:03:37 am »
+27

Counting House + Night Watchman

The second best Counting House synergy!  Similar in principal to Counting House + Scouting Party, but faster and more reliable, the goal is to alternate playing your two Counting Houses with 100% consistency.  This combo can consistently empty the Province pile by turn 14.

Your three goals, by turn 7:
  • Have the following deck: Counting House x2, Night Watchman x2, Copper x8, Estates (or Shelters) x3, one other card.  The other card could be a ninth Copper, a Silver, an Heirloom, or (if you're lucky) a Duchy.
  • Have the following hand: Counting House x1, Night Watchman x1, at least one Copper (the important part here is to have 4+ non-Copper cards in your deck or discard).
  • Be able to generate $8.  This is usually accomplished by having all Coppers in your hand or discard pile.
From this point on, you can buy Province, play Night Watchman, discard to a 5-card deck that includes your other Counting House and Night Watchman, and do the same thing over again.  Absent attacks, this should be 100% reliable through 7 Provinces.  For the 8th Province, you can discard your Night Watchman to find your Counting House.

Getting to this state by turn 7 is easier done than said!  Sometimes, you'll get unlucky and your Counting Houses or Night Watchmen will stick together, or maybe you'll have a difficult time affording your second Counting House, but these usually only set you back one turn.

Your early buys need to depend on your opening split:
  • /: This the best case.  Buy Copper turn 1, then Night Watchman turn 2, to set up on turn 3, which you should use to buy your first Counting House.  If all goes well, you might even be set up by turn 6.  However, you don't have enough non-Copper cards to take a Province while setting up your next turn; grab fewer Coppers with Counting House and buy a Duchy instead.
  • /: Buy Silver on turn 1, Night Watchman on turn 2 to set up on turn 3, which you should use to buy your first Counting House.  You still need to buy a Copper at some point, but there's no rush.  You can even buy it on turn 6 after you've set up offsetting Counting Houses; just be careful not to grab all Coppers with your Counting House and so leave yourself with fewer than 5 cards in your deck.
  • / or /: Open with Counting House and Copper.  Often, you can buy a Night Watchman on turn 3 and guarantee your second Counting House purchase on turn 4.

Attacks
Any attack that can trigger a shuffle (plus Pillage) kill the combo dead.  Most handsize attacks and junking attacks merely decrease reliability; so don't expect to get all eight Provinces in a row in the face of these attacks.  Against Enchantress, you can protect yourself by buying a couple dummy actions (ideally cantrips) to protect your Counting House plays.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2018, 12:20:27 am by aku_chi »
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1339 on: July 26, 2018, 12:58:07 am »
0

Counting House + Night Watchman

This is beyond neat and certainly more than potentially useful!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1340 on: July 26, 2018, 06:56:16 am »
0

Kudos for finding that one! I'm going to have to try it out.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1341 on: July 26, 2018, 09:08:20 am »
0

Kudos for finding that one! I'm going to have to try it out.

Thanks, but I didn't discover the synergy; I just tried to optimize it and wrote it down.  Counting House + Night Watchman was first mentioned on Discord by Dan (not Dan Brooks) on 11/22/2017, and Emil and Dan Brooks validated there was something to it.  It's worth noting, this strategy plays very differently than most Dominion games, and counter to many of your intuitions, so it's worth practicing if you want to be able to execute properly when it comes up.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1342 on: July 26, 2018, 09:22:51 am »
0

Wow, that's pretty legit.

It's worth noting, this strategy plays very differently than most Dominion games, and counter to many of your intuitions, so it's worth practicing if you want to be able to execute properly when it comes up.

I feel the same way about Hermit/Market Square, and never remember how to do it properly.  Unlike H/MS, though, this seems like it'd do fine in a mirror.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1343 on: July 29, 2018, 06:30:51 pm »
+3

By itself, Gear money is pretty okay.  But, Gear money really appreciates trashing Estates and gaining extra Silvers without losing tempo.  It shouldn't be surprising that Gear money's strongest supports do both!

Gear + Trade (requires / opening)

The synergy here is pretty clear: Gear draw and saving helps set up Trade turns that turn your Estates (and a Copper) into Silvers.  But I was shocked at just how fast this strategy was.

Step 1: Open Gear x2.
Step 2: Buy a third Gear and execute a Trade on two Estates, followed by a Trade on an Estate and a Copper.  With decent draws (a Gear on turn 3 is usually enough), you can accomplish this by turn 5!  If your turn 4 is less fortunate, keep saving for the Trade and buy a Silver.
--- At this point, your deck is 3 Gears, 4-5 Silver, and 6 Copper ---
Step 3: If your opponent is racing for Provinces (and you were fortunate to get double Trade by turn 5), you can start Provincing as early as turn 6 and almost always grab 4 Provinces by turn 9!  This is super fast and reliable.  After this point, your green will gunk up the works, but you should be able to buy Duchies or save up for the fifth Province as required.  On the other hand, if you need to grab 6 Provinces (usually against an enginey strategy), you should start Provincing on turn 7 at the earliest.  If you've already Traded your Estates by turn 5, I recommend buying a Gold on turn 6.  You could Trade Coppers, but I think it's better to save the extra Copper for the next turn.  You might want to grab another Gold later on if you start to falter.  Depending on your draws, you can get 6 Provinces by turn 12-14, which is a very tough pace to beat.  You can't really get 8 Provinces in a reasonable amount of time, so I wouldn't recommend this in the presence of strong Alt VP.

Gear + Transmogrify (requires / opening and Estates!)

Transmogrify does three things that Gear money appreciates:
  • Removes Estates
  • Adds Silvers
  • Mills Provinces
And Gear helps put the Estates and Provinces into your starting hand for Transmogrify.  The result is a fast and very robust money strategy:

Step 1: Open Gear + Transmogrify.
Step 2: If you see Transmogrify on turn 3, do your happy dance.  Either way, get two more Gears and then Silvers with your sub-$6 buys/gains.  If you have Transmogrify on the mat, you might want to buy a Silver over a Gear (with the expectation to upgrade an Estate into a Gear on the next turn).  Once you have two Golds, you'll be ready to start Provincing.  You probably won't have trashed all of your Estates by this point - this is fine, just trash them when you have the opportunity.
Step 3: Do the Gear thing, where you exactly buy Province each turn and set aside the money you don't need.  If you get the opportunity, use your Transmogrify to trash Province into Province.  This strategy has a little more variance than the Trade one, mostly due to how often Transmogrify misses your shuffles.  Still, it's pretty fast in the worst case and scary fast in the best case.

4 Provinces, Turn 10-12, ~24-27 VP
6 Provinces, Turn 12-16, ~30-39 VP
8 Provinces, Turn 14-18, ~42-55 VP
« Last Edit: July 29, 2018, 06:33:05 pm by aku_chi »
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Aleimon Thimble

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1344 on: July 30, 2018, 04:59:30 am »
0

Gear/Trade might be the fastest BM option out there. I happened to stumble upon it recently:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15455.msg755789#msg755789
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1345 on: July 30, 2018, 08:44:51 am »
0

Gear/Trade might be the fastest BM option out there. I happened to stumble upon it recently:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15455.msg755789#msg755789

I forgot about that post (despite upvoting it).  When it comes to 2-card money strategies, Gear + Trade is only behind Donate + Market Square (if that counts) and Donate + Windfall, I believe.  However, it's possibly more likely that there's something on board to compete with those monolithic Donate strategies (still unlikely).  I was also able to get 4 Provinces in 9 turns with Envoy + Trade once, but it's less reliable and less elegant.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1346 on: July 30, 2018, 01:29:19 pm »
0

Gear/Trade might be the fastest BM option out there. I happened to stumble upon it recently:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15455.msg755789#msg755789

I forgot about that post (despite upvoting it).  When it comes to 2-card money strategies, Gear + Trade is only behind Donate + Market Square (if that counts) and Donate + Windfall, I believe.  However, it's possibly more likely that there's something on board to compete with those monolithic Donate strategies (still unlikely).  I was also able to get 4 Provinces in 9 turns with Envoy + Trade once, but it's less reliable and less elegant.

What do you deny on your opponent's Envoy in that situation? Preference for Estates then Coppers?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1347 on: September 26, 2018, 08:01:23 pm »
+2

Butcher + Silk Merchant

Obvious and potentially useful turbo remodel variant.
Silk Merchant guarantees 5 on the first shuffle. Amass Butchers and Silk Merchants, turning some starting estates into Silk Merchants early. Maybe mill a Silk Merchant for+4 Coffers and +2 Villagers. With 1 extra token, Butcher can take Silk Merchant straight to Province in the end game. The Villagers should allow multiple-Butcher turns. There are interesting decisions around when to play Silk Merchants.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1348 on: September 26, 2018, 08:41:30 pm »
+1

Butcher + Silk Merchant

Obvious and potentially useful turbo remodel variant.
Silk Merchant guarantees 5 on the first shuffle. Amass Butchers and Silk Merchants, turning some starting estates into Silk Merchants early. Maybe mill a Silk Merchant for+4 Coffers and +2 Villagers. With 1 extra token, Butcher can take Silk Merchant straight to Province in the end game. The Villagers should allow multiple-Butcher turns. There are interesting decisions around when to play Silk Merchants.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1349 on: September 26, 2018, 09:27:11 pm »
+3

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1350 on: September 27, 2018, 03:30:08 am »
+5

Page/Silk Merchant


Cheap draw that comes with + buy and just enough actions so that you can get to Champion. Pretty great match
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1351 on: September 27, 2018, 07:26:51 pm »
+1

Butcher + Silk Merchant

Obvious and potentially useful turbo remodel variant.
Silk Merchant guarantees 5 on the first shuffle. Amass Butchers and Silk Merchants, turning some starting estates into Silk Merchants early. Maybe mill a Silk Merchant for+4 Coffers and +2 Villagers. With 1 extra token, Butcher can take Silk Merchant straight to Province in the end game. The Villagers should allow multiple-Butcher turns. There are interesting decisions around when to play Silk Merchants.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1352 on: September 27, 2018, 08:05:05 pm »
0

I think we might want to wait for the full release to see what is just the new Mechanics and what is actually more specific to a card.

Page pretty much lose all the villagers. Troupe lets you get by with zero collision worries and then hey, no more villagers needed. Recruiter draws and trashes so you get to hero faster (and will much more quickly get rid of useless coppers once actions a cheap than you can accumulate draw with Silk merchant). And of course Sculptor, yeah you gain a couple of silvers to hand to avoid collisions ... but then you can gain draw to hand.

In like fashion Villagers combo with a lot of cards that have had terminal trouble before: Tormentor, Golem, Counting house (where Silk merchant is really nice), Pooka, and Envoy are helped a lot and things become much more viable with Villagers than with something like Cotr.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1353 on: September 27, 2018, 10:09:24 pm »
0

Bishop + Bonfire

There's a pretty fast golden deck here (faster and more reliable than the Chapel + Bishop golden deck).  So, if there aren't any disruptive attacks, you might want to go for it.

Turn 1-2: Buy Bishop + Bonfire
Turn 3-4: Trash 1 Estate and exactly 3 additional cards.  Usually, this comes about with one Bishop trash and two Bonfire purchases, trashing only one Copper on the second purchase.  You can also get there with two Bishop trashes and one Bonfire purchase.  Sometimes, this doesn't work out and you are delayed one turn.

Deck: Bishop, 2 Estates, 2 Coppers

Turn 5: Trash Estate, Buy Silver
Turn 6: Trash Estate, Buy Silver
Turn 7: Trash Copper, Buy Gold
Turn 8: Trash Copper, Buy Province
Turn 9+: Trash Province, Buy Province

Your VP after turn 8 is 14-15, then you get 5 VP per turn and end the game on turn 15 with 49-50 VP.  Add 1 turn to these totals if you aren't fortunate enough to trash to a 5-card hand by turn 5.

this is amazing
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1354 on: September 27, 2018, 10:12:16 pm »
0

Counting House + Night Watchman

This is beyond neat and certainly more than potentially useful!

This is can't seem to get to work at all.  I imagine it is that I am playing the night watchmen wrong.  Care to unpack how you are playing the night watchmen here.  I try and discard all coppers and try not to trigger reshuffles, but I am getting bogged down a lot, so i magine i'm doing something wrong.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1355 on: September 27, 2018, 10:14:13 pm »
+1

Butcher + Silk Merchant

Obvious and potentially useful turbo remodel variant.
Silk Merchant guarantees 5 on the first shuffle. Amass Butchers and Silk Merchants, turning some starting estates into Silk Merchants early. Maybe mill a Silk Merchant for+4 Coffers and +2 Villagers. With 1 extra token, Butcher can take Silk Merchant straight to Province in the end game. The Villagers should allow multiple-Butcher turns. There are interesting decisions around when to play Silk Merchants.

Welcome to the forum.

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I feel bad for him.  Everyone knows except in very limited situations lurkers pretty much suck when by themselves...
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1356 on: September 28, 2018, 01:29:05 am »
0

I'm very sure this isn't the first time anyone's noticed this, but Herald is a phenomenal Ghost Ship counter.

 a much cheaper one is will o wisp
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1357 on: September 28, 2018, 08:29:52 am »
0

Has Ill-Gotten Gains + Monastery been mentioned? I just had a game with it.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1358 on: September 28, 2018, 10:19:23 am »
+1

Counting House + Night Watchman

This is beyond neat and certainly more than potentially useful!

This is can't seem to get to work at all.  I imagine it is that I am playing the night watchmen wrong.  Care to unpack how you are playing the night watchmen here.  I try and discard all coppers and try not to trigger reshuffles, but I am getting bogged down a lot, so i magine i'm doing something wrong.

I wrote a slightly more detailed description for the blog.

You can watch RTT play the combo here (though he ought to have opened with Silver, IMO):

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1359 on: September 29, 2018, 12:12:27 pm »
0

Just played a game with crazy synergy.  Probably even counts as a combo. Unless projects don't count for some as they aren't technically "cards" for the literalists anal folks.  And you guys really need to relax.

Innovation & Hermit (madman).

Once you gain innovation it allows you to play cards at the end that you gain.  So buy hermit.  Immediately play hermit (can even grab another hermit here especially to block ur opponent from doing this too) and b/c you can't buy a card after playing it you immediately get a madman.

So you basically get a free card and an immediate madman without the hermit clogging ur deck (not to mention an additional trash from the hermit anyway)

Just crushed someone with this.  It's really strong.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 12:14:53 pm by Honkeyfresh »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1360 on: September 29, 2018, 12:46:43 pm »
+2

Wait, that doesn't sound right.... You only get a Madman "if you didn't buy any cards this turn", not just if you didn't buy any cards after playing Hermit.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1361 on: September 29, 2018, 01:44:52 pm »
+1

Wait, that doesn't sound right.... You only get a Madman "if you didn't buy any cards this turn", not just if you didn't buy any cards after playing Hermit.

well then it's a glitch.  cuz i just did it like 5x

I thought it would work like you, just happened to gain one to trash a curse and it happened... so i used the shit out of it

for those that wanna see this, or play it load game 18825460
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 03:50:57 pm by Honkeyfresh »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1362 on: September 29, 2018, 03:51:01 pm »
+6

Treasurer + Monastery

Gain Coppers out of the Trash, play them, and trash them again.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1363 on: September 30, 2018, 10:46:36 pm »
+6

Experiment + Devil's Workshop

Buy an Experiment, gain two of them, and get an imp from Devil's Workshop
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1364 on: October 01, 2018, 02:36:19 am »
+11

Experiment + Devil's Workshop

Buy an Experiment, gain two of them, and get an imp from Devil's Workshop

The other nice thing about this is that your Imps can repeatedly play Experiments.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1365 on: October 02, 2018, 08:40:03 am »
+9

Capital + Wine Merchant

You can use the $2 you save to discard your WMs to pay off debt from Capital, essentially making WM a straight +$4 when you draw it with a Capital.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1366 on: October 08, 2018, 12:03:26 am »
0

Just had a sweet deck with some crazy synergy.

Shephard + seaway + counterfeit + training + crazy shit

Here's my turn 11

Turn 11 - honkeyfresh
h plays a Shepherd.
h gets +1 Coin (from Training).
h gets +1 Buy (from Seaway).
h gets +1 Action.
h discards a Pasture and an Estate.
h draws 3 Estates and a Shepherd.
h plays a Shepherd.
h gets +1 Coin (from Training).
h gets +1 Buy (from Seaway).
h gets +1 Action.
h discards 3 Estates.
h draws 2 Coppers, 2 Estates, a Counterfeit and a Shepherd.
h plays a Shepherd.
h gets +1 Coin (from Training).
h gets +1 Buy (from Seaway).
h gets +1 Action.
h discards 2 Estates.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws 2 Estates, a Shepherd and a Pasture.
h plays a Shepherd.
h gets +1 Coin (from Training).
h gets +1 Buy (from Seaway).
h gets +1 Action.
h discards a Pasture and 2 Estates.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws 6 Estates.
h plays a Counterfeit.
h gets +1 Buy.
h plays a Copper.
h plays a Copper again.
h trashes a Copper.
h plays a Silver, a Copper and a Gold.
h buys and gains 5 Estates.
h buys and gains a Silver.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws 3 Estates, a Shepherd and a Pasture.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1367 on: November 05, 2018, 07:45:48 pm »
+4

With Scepter and Sculptor Scholar, you can very easily build a draw-to-X engine with Treasures as payload.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 07:50:02 pm by Awaclus »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1368 on: November 06, 2018, 04:21:47 pm »
+21

Guildhall + Beggar

Even without +Buy or other help, these two together can make for a surprisingly fast Province rush.  Guildhall gives you +1 Coffers every time you gain a treasure, which means Beggar essentially reads +$6.  There's probably some optimization here that I haven't figured out yet, but the basic strategy is to open Beggar-Beggar, buy Guildhall with your first $5 (which should be very easy with a Beggar play), then buy Province every time you play Beggar, and buy extra Beggars on hands without Beggars.  I can usually get 7-8 Provinces in about 12 to 13 turns, and I've had a few games where I emptied Provinces by turn 10 or 11. 
« Last Edit: November 06, 2018, 04:47:08 pm by 4est »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1369 on: November 06, 2018, 10:30:36 pm »
+8

If you have an Artisan in hand and Scepter in the kingdom, you can play the Artisan to gain n Scepters where n is your handsize.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1370 on: November 07, 2018, 08:19:52 am »
+1

If you have an Artisan in hand and Scepter in the kingdom, you can play the Artisan to gain n Scepters where n is your handsize.

With $1 of cost reduction and a Sculptor you can gain 10 Scepters.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1371 on: November 07, 2018, 08:25:03 am »
0

If you have an Artisan in hand and Scepter in the kingdom, you can play the Artisan to gain n Scepters where n is your handsize.

With $1 of cost reduction and a Sculptor you can gain 10 Scepters.

And as much Villagers
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1372 on: November 07, 2018, 08:30:22 am »
+2

Treasurer can pull Haunted Mirror out of the trash, allowing you to gain the multiple Ghosts you have always deserved.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1373 on: November 07, 2018, 09:23:39 am »
+4

Hermit/Experiment

Experiment is an amazing Hermit gaining target when you don't want a bunch of Silvers.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1374 on: November 07, 2018, 10:52:11 am »
+6

Experiment/Plan

Everyone knows experiments yield better results when planned. Never having to fear the Experiment pile to deplete is certainly a bonus for a Plan target.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1375 on: November 08, 2018, 03:15:42 am »
+6

Guildhall + Beggar

Even without +Buy or other help, these two together can make for a surprisingly fast Province rush.  Guildhall gives you +1 Coffers every time you gain a treasure, which means Beggar essentially reads +$6.  There's probably some optimization here that I haven't figured out yet, but the basic strategy is to open Beggar-Beggar, buy Guildhall with your first $5 (which should be very easy with a Beggar play), then buy Province every time you play Beggar, and buy extra Beggars on hands without Beggars.  I can usually get 7-8 Provinces in about 12 to 13 turns, and I've had a few games where I emptied Provinces by turn 10 or 11.

On a related note: Guildhall + Masterpiece
Buy Guildhall with your first $5, then Masterpieces, overpaying as much as possible. Uncontested, Silver runs around turn 8, afterwards you can easily buy a Province per turn. In a mirror, Silver runs around turn 6-7, and the game ends by turn 10 or 11. Obviously Gardens and Feodum love this.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1376 on: November 08, 2018, 08:20:52 am »
+4

Guildhall + Beggar

Even without +Buy or other help, these two together can make for a surprisingly fast Province rush.  Guildhall gives you +1 Coffers every time you gain a treasure, which means Beggar essentially reads +$6.  There's probably some optimization here that I haven't figured out yet, but the basic strategy is to open Beggar-Beggar, buy Guildhall with your first $5 (which should be very easy with a Beggar play), then buy Province every time you play Beggar, and buy extra Beggars on hands without Beggars.  I can usually get 7-8 Provinces in about 12 to 13 turns, and I've had a few games where I emptied Provinces by turn 10 or 11.

On a related note: Guildhall + Masterpiece
Buy Guildhall with your first $5, then Masterpieces, overpaying as much as possible. Uncontested, Silver runs around turn 8, afterwards you can easily buy a Province per turn. In a mirror, Silver runs around turn 6-7, and the game ends by turn 10 or 11. Obviously Gardens and Feodum love this.

Doesn't emptying the Silver pile seem a little excessive if it's just a Province game?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1377 on: November 08, 2018, 09:49:20 am »
+3

Guildhall + Beggar

Even without +Buy or other help, these two together can make for a surprisingly fast Province rush.  Guildhall gives you +1 Coffers every time you gain a treasure, which means Beggar essentially reads +$6.  There's probably some optimization here that I haven't figured out yet, but the basic strategy is to open Beggar-Beggar, buy Guildhall with your first $5 (which should be very easy with a Beggar play), then buy Province every time you play Beggar, and buy extra Beggars on hands without Beggars.  I can usually get 7-8 Provinces in about 12 to 13 turns, and I've had a few games where I emptied Provinces by turn 10 or 11.

On a related note: Guildhall + Masterpiece
Buy Guildhall with your first $5, then Masterpieces, overpaying as much as possible. Uncontested, Silver runs around turn 8, afterwards you can easily buy a Province per turn. In a mirror, Silver runs around turn 6-7, and the game ends by turn 10 or 11. Obviously Gardens and Feodum love this.

Doesn't emptying the Silver pile seem a little excessive if it's just a Province game?

Well, in a BM game you need a money density of $1.6/card to buy a Province every turn on average. Your deck starts out at 10 cards with $0.7/card, so if all you do is buy Silvers ($2/card), you'll need more than 20 Silvers to get your money density high enough. Considering the fact that Masterpieces themselves are just Coppers, it gets even worse. I wouldn't be surprised if getting around 30 Silvers is optimal, which is not quite an empty Silver pile but pretty close to it.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1378 on: November 08, 2018, 10:00:59 am »
+2

Guildhall + Beggar

Even without +Buy or other help, these two together can make for a surprisingly fast Province rush.  Guildhall gives you +1 Coffers every time you gain a treasure, which means Beggar essentially reads +$6.  There's probably some optimization here that I haven't figured out yet, but the basic strategy is to open Beggar-Beggar, buy Guildhall with your first $5 (which should be very easy with a Beggar play), then buy Province every time you play Beggar, and buy extra Beggars on hands without Beggars.  I can usually get 7-8 Provinces in about 12 to 13 turns, and I've had a few games where I emptied Provinces by turn 10 or 11.

On a related note: Guildhall + Masterpiece
Buy Guildhall with your first $5, then Masterpieces, overpaying as much as possible. Uncontested, Silver runs around turn 8, afterwards you can easily buy a Province per turn. In a mirror, Silver runs around turn 6-7, and the game ends by turn 10 or 11. Obviously Gardens and Feodum love this.

Doesn't emptying the Silver pile seem a little excessive if it's just a Province game?

Well, in a BM game you need a money density of $1.6/card to buy a Province every turn on average. Your deck starts out at 10 cards with $0.7/card, so if all you do is buy Silvers ($2/card), you'll need more than 20 Silvers to get your money density high enough. Considering the fact that Masterpieces themselves are just Coppers, it gets even worse. I wouldn't be surprised if getting around 30 Silvers is optimal, which is not quite an empty Silver pile but pretty close to it.

With all the coffers you get from that last Masterpiece?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1379 on: November 08, 2018, 10:20:13 am »
0

Guildhall + Beggar

Even without +Buy or other help, these two together can make for a surprisingly fast Province rush.  Guildhall gives you +1 Coffers every time you gain a treasure, which means Beggar essentially reads +$6.  There's probably some optimization here that I haven't figured out yet, but the basic strategy is to open Beggar-Beggar, buy Guildhall with your first $5 (which should be very easy with a Beggar play), then buy Province every time you play Beggar, and buy extra Beggars on hands without Beggars.  I can usually get 7-8 Provinces in about 12 to 13 turns, and I've had a few games where I emptied Provinces by turn 10 or 11.

On a related note: Guildhall + Masterpiece
Buy Guildhall with your first $5, then Masterpieces, overpaying as much as possible. Uncontested, Silver runs around turn 8, afterwards you can easily buy a Province per turn. In a mirror, Silver runs around turn 6-7, and the game ends by turn 10 or 11. Obviously Gardens and Feodum love this.

Doesn't emptying the Silver pile seem a little excessive if it's just a Province game?

Well, in a BM game you need a money density of $1.6/card to buy a Province every turn on average. Your deck starts out at 10 cards with $0.7/card, so if all you do is buy Silvers ($2/card), you'll need more than 20 Silvers to get your money density high enough. Considering the fact that Masterpieces themselves are just Coppers, it gets even worse. I wouldn't be surprised if getting around 30 Silvers is optimal, which is not quite an empty Silver pile but pretty close to it.

With all the coffers you get from that last Masterpiece?

That's a fair point, but by the time you get enough coffers from a single Masterpiece not to need so many Silvers anymore, the Silver pile is also almost empty.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1380 on: November 08, 2018, 04:45:47 pm »
0

Doesn't emptying the Silver pile seem a little excessive if it's just a Province game?

That's a good point. Getting all Silvers even allows to pile Colonies. For Provinces, getting roughly half of the Silver pile is enough, which allows to get all Provinces by turn 14.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1381 on: November 09, 2018, 08:24:52 am »
+5

Inventor + Alms

Alms is already pretty great with Bridge, but its even better with Inventor.  You can open double Inventor.  When you play a single Inventor, you can gain a $4 (which could be another Inventor) and a $5.  If there's a village that costs $5 or less, you can easily chain Inventors for more spectacular results.  Building this way is so fast, it could be reasonable to skip or defer weak trashing.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1382 on: November 10, 2018, 12:00:58 pm »
0

I haven’t tested it out yet, but
Lost Arts/Inventor
Lost Arts mitigates the main drawback of Inventor: it being terminal. That way, you can get crazy turns where you can gain and play a bunch of Inventors without needing an exorbitant amount of village support.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1383 on: November 10, 2018, 03:57:57 pm »
+2

Ferry / Chariot Race
Say your opponent has a lot of Smithys and few Workers Villages, while you have a lot of Workers Villages and few Smithys -- Ferry the Smithy pile so that your Chariot Races get activated while theirs do not. Ferry'ing the Chariot Race pile itself could even be neat if, say, you have few CRs and your opponent has a lot, and you have a lot of Villages, your CRs will activate on your Village when against a CR. I haven't done the math on if this is actually beneficial, but it's certainly neat.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1384 on: November 10, 2018, 04:24:30 pm »
0

Seer + Scheme
Use Seer to draw the Schemes, which then draw other cards. Then use Scheme to top deck the Seers.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1385 on: November 10, 2018, 05:27:28 pm »
+14

I decided to try my hand at optimizing some Guildhall combos.

Beggar + Guildhall
This can be insanely fast, but it's very inconsistent; if your Beggars clump together, you lose a lot of turns.  My strategy was to always get three Beggars and Guildhall in the first 4 turns.  Buy Provinces when possible.  Buy additional Beggars on turns 5-7 if you miss Province.  After that, buy Silvers instead.
   Turn 8-12: 4 Provinces, ~27 VP
   Turn 10-14: 6 Provinces, ~39 VP
   Turn 13-17: 8 Provinces, ~51 VP

Delve + Guildhall
This combo is pretty comparable with Masterpiece, but with slightly higher highs and lower lows.  My strategy is to buy Guildhall ASAP (a 2/5 or 5/2 is great).  Pre-Guildhall, just Delve as much as possible.  Post-Guildhall, use a Coffers if you have an odd amount of money, buy as many Delves as you can, plus a Copper.  Green starting on turn 6 if you have an amazing start, turn 7 usually, and turn 8 if you have a weaker start (often caused by Guildhall on turn 4+).  If you get $9 or $10 naturally, you can Delve + Province.
   Turn 9-11: 4 Provinces, ~27 VP
   Turn 12-13: 6 Provinces, ~39 VP
   Turn 15-16: 8 Provinces, ~51 VP

Masterpiece + Guildhall
This strategy is the most reliable to 8 Provinces, but the slowest to 4 Provinces.  I just buy Silvers pre-Guildhall.  Post-Guildhall, use all your Coffers and get the biggest Masterpiece overpay you can!  Green starting on turn 7 if you have ~15+ Silvers.  Green starting on turn 8 otherwise.
   Turn 10-11: 4 Provinces, ~27 VP
   Turn 12-13: 6 Provinces, ~39 VP
   Turn 14-15: 8 Provinces, ~51 VP

So, these are all really strong!  Monolithic Guildhall strategies are also worth looking out for with Banquet and Cache (and maybe other cards I'm not thinking of).

Edit: Banquet + Guildhall is also very strong.  The baseline Banquet for Silver isn't as strong as the above, but it isn't hard to find something on the board that helps.  A better treasure (or treasure gainer) helps, as does +buy.  I got 8 Provinces in 13 turns with Banquet + Spices + Guildhall.  Counterfeit and Charm were strong.  I expect Treasure Trove is also great.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 12:02:44 am by aku_chi »
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mameluke

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1386 on: November 11, 2018, 11:50:20 am »
+1

Poor House / Patron is kind of interesting.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1387 on: November 14, 2018, 05:09:12 pm »
+3

Gear + Citadel

Citadel works well with decks that revolve around playing a key card card once per turn, and first.

Big Money + Gear, once set up, basically has you playing a Gear every turn as your only action. With Citadel you can increase the number of Gears in your deck without fear of terminal collision, and really work with +4 cards. I spiked an early $8 in a BM+Gear game, bought Citadel, and I was able to make 8 easily every subsequent turn.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1388 on: November 16, 2018, 12:31:30 am »
+8

City Gate + Guide

Put back the best card from your hand before you call Guide.

Simon Jester

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1389 on: November 16, 2018, 02:30:26 pm »
+4

Citygate + Lookout

No more shots in the dark, Lookout will always hit your junk (as long as you have any in hand at least)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1390 on: November 16, 2018, 04:32:30 pm »
+7

Searched the thread and didn't find it.  This one is extra-neat (though not extra-useful) because the cards are just two letter-steps apart despite having completely different etymologies!*

Patron + Patrol

Patrol can reveal Patrons, gaining you possibly multiple Coffers if you have enough Patrons.  You'll want a village or two to take full advantage, but you can stockpile Villagers on turns where this doesn't work out.

*Patron comes (eventually) from Latin pater (father) so from PIE *p[h2]ter (father), patrol is probably from pate (foot) so eventually from PIE *ped-
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1391 on: November 16, 2018, 06:23:03 pm »
+3

patrol is probably from pate (foot) so eventually from PIE *ped-

This is definitely wrong. In Latin "foot" is pes, genitive pedis. I don't know where you got "pate" from. Getting the form "pate" from *ped- is not a thing in any language as far as I know. My sources tell me patrol is actually from PIE *pent- ("path").

Regardless, cool combo.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1392 on: November 17, 2018, 01:15:49 am »
+3

So all sources I’ve checked seem like to agree “patrol” is from Old French patte ‘paw’; and then Wiktionary says it’s connected to *pent-; Etymonline says maybe *ped- via Celtic; OED just throws up its hands and says maybe it’s okay onomatopoeic—I think we may just have to accept the etymology of this word is unsettled.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1393 on: November 17, 2018, 05:17:35 pm »
+6

Golem + Mountain Village

One of the main problems with Golem-based engines is that Golems will skip other Golems. But if you hit a Mountain Village, fear not! You can put one of those skipped Golems straight back into your hand. Plus, you'll have the actions to play it.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1394 on: November 17, 2018, 05:29:26 pm »
+4

Flag Bearer + Changeling

Don't like junking your deck with terminal silvers? Well change them to something else then, and still get the Flag! 
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1395 on: November 19, 2018, 11:33:00 am »
0

Flag Bearer + Changeling

Don't like junking your deck with terminal silvers? Well change them to something else then, and still get the Flag!

Changeling is also nice with Silk Merchant.  It gives you the flexibility to spend $4 on a Changeling +1 Coffers and a Villager.  Not bad.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1396 on: November 19, 2018, 11:36:48 am »
0

Changeling is nice with everything that has an on-gain benefit.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1397 on: November 19, 2018, 12:02:24 pm »
0

Changeling is nice with everything that has an on-gain benefit.

Changeling is less appealing with Border Village (village 4lyfe), but can still work out if you are racing to win the split of a cheaper pile and happen to reach $6.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1398 on: November 19, 2018, 02:02:57 pm »
+1

Changeling is nice with everything that has an on-gain benefit.

Changeling is less appealing with Border Village (village 4lyfe), but can still work out if you are racing to win the split of a cheaper pile and happen to reach $6.
It's actually quite good with Border Village since all you need is a Border Village in play to gain any card costing $5 or less.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1399 on: November 20, 2018, 03:37:13 am »
+2

So all sources I’ve checked seem like to agree “patrol” is from Old French patte ‘paw’; and then Wiktionary says it’s connected to *pent-; Etymonline says maybe *ped- via Celtic; OED just throws up its hands and says maybe it’s okay onomatopoeic—I think we may just have to accept the etymology of this word is unsettled.

I am a simple man; I see etymology discussions, I upvote.
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buckets

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1400 on: November 20, 2018, 11:15:19 pm »
0

KC + Inventor

KC˛+Inventors = 6 Provs automatically (plus one for each extra buy you have).

The Inventors gain themselves too which is pretty slick.

Crosspost from the other topic.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1401 on: November 20, 2018, 11:16:28 pm »
+3

Another interesting one today:

Canal/Seer

Seer can be a super-Lab if you have a lot of mid-cost cards, but it can't draw itself or other $5 cards.  But with your cube on Canal, all cards cost $1 less, from the start of your turn.  While this would in theory work with *any* cost reducer, this one doesn't require you to get a different card in play before your Seers can draw their compatriots.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1402 on: November 21, 2018, 09:27:21 am »
0

Changeling is nice with everything that has an on-gain benefit.

Changeling is less appealing with Border Village (village 4lyfe), but can still work out if you are racing to win the split of a cheaper pile and happen to reach $6.
It's actually quite good with Border Village since all you need is a Border Village in play to gain any card costing $5 or less.

Oh, good point.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1403 on: November 21, 2018, 12:31:29 pm »
0

Harbinger with Citadel turned out to be pretty great. Play Harbinger first, put the card you want on top of your deck, draw it with the replay of Harbinger.

You now have two actions, whatever card you wanted from your discard pile, and get to put another card on top of your deck to boot.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1404 on: November 21, 2018, 08:35:07 pm »
+1

A Guildhall strategy that hasn't come up is Guildhall + Treasure Trove. It's quite good, especially with Gear as an enabler.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1405 on: November 22, 2018, 09:49:37 am »
+1

I don't think Guildhall + Ill-Gotten Gains has been mentioned yet. Get Coffers for gaining the IGG, then more for gaining the Coppers.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1406 on: November 22, 2018, 07:04:05 pm »
+3

Crypt - Raider
Crypt all your coppers so that raider can hit a better card
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1407 on: November 25, 2018, 09:20:10 am »
0

Priest + Horn of Plenty
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1408 on: November 26, 2018, 03:12:04 am »
0

Are these $2 extra for trashing HoP that great? When you can trash the Horn of Plenty for Province, the seven cards in play often have provide enough payload for purchasing a second Province anyway. If there is +Buy on board, the marginal benefit of using the Horn of plenty is less pronounced.

But thanks for the hint, it is certainly worth a second look. They can't all be Quarry and Stonemason.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1409 on: November 26, 2018, 04:25:25 am »
+1

Are these $2 extra for trashing HoP that great? When you can trash the Horn of Plenty for Province, the seven cards in play often have provide enough payload for purchasing a second Province anyway. If there is +Buy on board, the marginal benefit of using the Horn of plenty is less pronounced.

But thanks for the hint, it is certainly worth a second look. They can't all be Quarry and Stonemason.

You probably have more than one Priest and more than one Horn of Plenty.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1410 on: November 27, 2018, 07:08:29 am »
+1

Somewhat simpler to pull off (arguably more obvious): Priest and Scepter.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1411 on: November 28, 2018, 09:03:22 am »
+9

During the Renaissance previews, I thought that Star Chart + Envoy / Catacombs / Patrol / Journeyman might be fast money strategies.  Having tested them out: I was wrong.  Star Chart + Embassy is okay, but inconsistent.  Star Chart + Scavenger can also be good (start each turn with a Scavenger + Gold), but is inconsistent.  The best monolithic Star Chart strategy I've found is:

Star Chart + Masquerade

The idea here is to open Star Chart + Masquerade, keep an 11 card deck and topdeck Masquerade every turn.  Replace your Estates and then Copper with Silvers and then Golds.  Starting on turn 7 or 8, you can start buying Provinces.  Around turn 9-10 (after you've trashed 3-4 Copper), you should consider not trashing any more Copper (especially if doing so would drop you below $8).  Once you have more than 11 cards in your deck, don't mindlessly topdeck Masquerade.  Track your remaining deck and try to distribute your money to maximize Provinces over the following two turns.

4 Provinces: Turn 10-11
6 Provinces: Turn 13-15
8 Provinces: Turn 16-19

You can also do something similar with Goat.  Open Star Chart + Pixie and maintain a 9 card deck.  This is about as fast to 4-6 Provinces, but chokes harder to get all 8.  Also, it's less noteworthy, because Goat makes everything faster.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 09:10:49 am by aku_chi »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1412 on: November 29, 2018, 03:15:04 am »
+3

Priest + Counterfeit


Fairly obvious, but I would declare this a thing. With a treasure trasher there is no problem to activate Priests, the only problem would be to have enough targets left in the deck, but solve that and you're set.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1413 on: November 29, 2018, 12:27:46 pm »
+2

Seer + Chariot Race

Seer leaves copies of itself and other expensive cards on top of your deck so Chariot Race is activated when played. Seer also picks up your Chariot Races into your hand. The time I saw it Altar was also on the board, which enabled getting many Seers and Chariot Races while trashing, but any decent gainer should work.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1414 on: November 29, 2018, 12:38:21 pm »
0

Seer + Chariot Race

Seer leaves copies of itself and other expensive cards on top of your deck so Chariot Race is activated when played. Seer also picks up your Chariot Races into your hand. The time I saw it Altar was also on the board, which enabled getting many Seers and Chariot Races while trashing, but any decent gainer should work.

True, but it also leaves junk left on top so in a junker-game it might be a double-edged sword. Still mostly a good effect since you can rearrange to your benefit.
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ehunt

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1415 on: November 29, 2018, 08:58:06 pm »
+2

outpost + cargo ship

bonus b/c the interaction is thematic !
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samath

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1416 on: December 03, 2018, 02:56:52 am »
0

Star Chart + Masquerade

I just tried this out for about a dozen games... and it seems to consistently but barely beat Lord Rattington, who foregoes the Star Chart for double Masquerade (and sometimes does other weird things, of course).

It was okay, I guess? But nothing to write home about, and rarely seemed to be the best strategy. Masquerade and Star Chart both accelerate engines, too.
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creinman

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1417 on: December 03, 2018, 12:29:02 pm »
+2

Has anyone said Silos/Counting House yet?

I haven't tried it and it doesn't seem overpowered, but hey this thread is called "potentially useful" for a reason
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Titandrake

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1418 on: December 03, 2018, 01:48:48 pm »
0

Star Chart + Masquerade

I just tried this out for about a dozen games... and it seems to consistently but barely beat Lord Rattington, who foregoes the Star Chart for double Masquerade (and sometimes does other weird things, of course).

It was okay, I guess? But nothing to write home about, and rarely seemed to be the best strategy. Masquerade and Star Chart both accelerate engines, too.

Is that bad? If it wins consistently by a small lead, that's still a consistent win.

It sounds like this may be one of those Gear-Big Money deals, where there's often an engine that's faster, but the money baseline can't be ignored.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1419 on: December 10, 2018, 10:34:09 am »
+6

Villa-Swashbuckler. When you have Treasure Chest (from Swashbuckler), you gain a Gold every time you enter your buy phase, including from Villa. This allows you to gain a lot of Golds very quickly. However, you need to be careful not to gain so many Gold such that you can no longer draw your deck.

If you draw your deck and have $4 and additional draw in hand (such as a few cards that give +1 Card, +1 Action), you can gain as many Golds as you have draw cards: go to your Buy phase and gain a Gold, buy a Villa, go back to the Action phase, draw the Gold you gained, go to buy Phase and gain another Gold, use the previous Gold to help buy the next Villa, etc.

Villa also provides a way to get Coffers from Swashbuckler even starting from a clean shuffle: play a Villa for the +Buy; buy a non-Villa card, then buy a Villa, returning to your action phase so you can play Swashbucklers for the Coffers.
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ipofanes

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1420 on: December 10, 2018, 11:02:49 am »
0

You didn't even mention that Swashbuckler offers the draw Villa is so critically lacking.
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crj

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1421 on: December 27, 2018, 07:53:09 pm »
0

Mountain Village + Scheme
At the start of your turn, play Mountain Village and pull Scheme from your discard pile, then play it.
During clean-up, use Scheme to top-deck Mountain Village.

The net effect is a +1 Action each turn, Barracks for $4+$3 rather than $6.Well, until you reshuffle, at least...
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Águia Branca

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1422 on: December 29, 2018, 05:11:47 pm »
0

If you have an Artisan in hand and Scepter in the kingdom, you can play the Artisan to gain n Scepters where n is your handsize.

With $1 of cost reduction and a Sculptor you can gain 10 Scepters.

And as much Villagers
Also interesting with Crown. If you have any cost reduction and Crown a Sculptor, you can empty both Crowns and Sculptors instantly, unless one pile is more than two copies lower than the other.
With cost reduction and a +Action token or Academy or Champion, you can empty the Sculptors.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2018, 06:00:05 pm by Águia Branca »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1423 on: February 12, 2019, 10:46:23 am »
+8

Patron/Hunting Party

Have Patrons in your hand? Reveal them! Have Patrons in your deck? Flip through it and reveal them all!
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exek

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1424 on: March 01, 2019, 11:43:01 pm »
+3

If you have market and smith, the market gives +1 action that lets u play the smith and get +four cards. Then if you draw gold that will give you money so you can buy province. This combo is strong because the market ALSO gives money, and lets u buy more money (free!!): but problem is sometimes you dont draw market and smith together  >:(
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1425 on: March 02, 2019, 09:23:20 am »
+2

If you have market and smith, the market gives +1 action that lets u play the smith and get +four cards. Then if you draw gold that will give you money so you can buy province. This combo is strong because the market ALSO gives money, and lets u buy more money (free!!): but problem is sometimes you dont draw market and smith together  >:(

Guess I'll have to be the one to ask: What's your other account name, and why have you decided to start trolling us?
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crj

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1426 on: March 02, 2019, 11:03:46 am »
0

I wondered that, but it doesn't smell entirely like trolling.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1427 on: March 02, 2019, 12:50:37 pm »
0

No, this is absolutely a troll. Not even beginner players are that clueless.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1428 on: March 02, 2019, 02:57:05 pm »
+1

No, this is absolutely a troll. Not even beginner players are that clueless.

I'm usually hesistant to call out people as trolls; often they are just very young players. I doubt a troll would be this obvious.
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crj

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1429 on: March 02, 2019, 04:07:11 pm »
+1

If they are, in fact, a troll, the "smith" instead of "Smithy" is an inspired touch.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1430 on: March 03, 2019, 09:20:33 pm »
0

From their post history, the first two only had me like 60% convinced they're trolling, but "i think the best card is harbinger" puts it over the top..

No one would seriously claim that, whereas a troll would ::)
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hhelibebcnofnena

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1431 on: March 03, 2019, 09:33:04 pm »
0

From their post history, the first two only had me like 60% convinced they're trolling, but "i think the best card is harbinger" puts it over the top..

No one would seriously claim that, whereas a troll would ::)

Actually, the first game I played with Harbinger I think also had Mystic, which is a pretty nice synergy, so I overestimated Harbinger for a while until I realized that Mystic was pulling most of the weight in that synergy. I never would have called it the best card though.
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exek

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1432 on: March 03, 2019, 11:46:54 pm »
+2

sory i am not good @ the english what is troll??  ???
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1433 on: March 05, 2019, 07:34:27 pm »
+1

sory i am not good @ the english what is troll??  ???

The following is something a troll would do:

sory i am not good @ the english what is troll??  ???

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1434 on: March 17, 2019, 12:34:25 am »
+11

Ironworks + Experiment + Triumph

This was fun. Aim for a deck with as many experiments as possible and maybe 4 ironworks. Each turn you play all the experiments, gain them all back with the 4 ironworks, and buy triumph for ~9 VP.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1435 on: March 30, 2019, 11:09:35 pm »
+3

Innovation+duplicate.  Just learned that you can buy duplicate, set it aside and play it, then call it to gain a copy of itself.  Pretty cool
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1436 on: May 24, 2019, 09:58:02 am »
+7

Priest + Watchtower + Extra buys

Basically, Watchtower gives you a 1 Buy --> x coin conversion option in your buy phase, where x is 2 times the number of Priests you've played this turn. You may want to keep some of the Coppers you buy, though, to fuel the Priests for next turn.
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jomini

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1437 on: June 02, 2019, 06:00:41 pm »
0

Priest + Watchtower + Extra buys

Basically, Watchtower gives you a 1 Buy --> x coin conversion option in your buy phase, where x is 2 times the number of Priests you've played this turn. You may want to keep some of the Coppers you buy, though, to fuel the Priests for next turn.

In a similar vein, you can convert Loans into very high value cards (e.g. Plats with 2 Priests in play and 2 extra buys). Rarely, I might consider getting a 2nd Loan if I have 2 or more Priest/+buys to play around with, but it is pretty nice way to spike cash in the midgame with a +buy.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1438 on: June 15, 2019, 03:53:21 pm »
+5

Hideout + Watchtower

Trash the Estates revealing Watchtower to trash the Curses. You also get a village that reduces handsize for Watchtower's draw.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1439 on: June 22, 2019, 03:16:03 am »
+3

Black Market / Coin of the Realm

Out of actions? No fear, just play black market, then your CotR, then bam more actions for you.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1440 on: June 22, 2019, 09:49:45 am »
0

Black Market / Coin of the Realm

Out of actions? No fear, just play black market, then your CotR, then bam more actions for you.

But you need an action to play Black Market... so this could work if you have 1 action, Black Market, CotR, and 2 other terminals that you want to play, all in hand. But man is that a really bad Village.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1441 on: June 22, 2019, 02:17:03 pm »
+1

Black Market / Coin of the Realm

Out of actions? No fear, just play black market, then your CotR, then bam more actions for you.

But you need an action to play Black Market... so this could work if you have 1 action, Black Market, CotR, and 2 other terminals that you want to play, all in hand. But man is that a really bad Village.

Black Market and Storyteller let you play and call coin of the Realm in the same turn, which you can't normally do.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1442 on: June 22, 2019, 03:45:09 pm »
+1

Black Market / Coin of the Realm

Out of actions? No fear, just play black market, then your CotR, then bam more actions for you.

But you need an action to play Black Market... so this could work if you have 1 action, Black Market, CotR, and 2 other terminals that you want to play, all in hand. But man is that a really bad Village.

Black Market and Storyteller let you play and call coin of the Realm in the same turn, which you can't normally do.

Which is what helped me in the game I was just playing. In fact, I actually purchased COTR out of the black market.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1443 on: June 22, 2019, 05:01:12 pm »
+1

Hideout + Watchtower

Trash the Estates revealing Watchtower to trash the Curses. You also get a village that reduces handsize for Watchtower's draw.

On the downside, this makes Hideout lose its usefulness faster.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1444 on: October 01, 2019, 08:11:14 pm »
0

Scheme + Citadel

Playing Scheme as the first card every turn after buying Citadel gives you a nice Lost City effect, as well as letting you topdeck the Scheme for next turn in addition to some other key card.
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William Howard Taft

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1445 on: November 29, 2019, 04:27:18 pm »
+2

Normally I hate Capital but I just played a kingdom where Mission was on the board too and it made the debt considerably less annoying.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1446 on: December 22, 2019, 11:30:59 pm »
+4

Thanks to the errata, Band of Misfits can now collect the 4VP off the Farmers' Market pile without trashing themselves.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1447 on: December 28, 2019, 10:28:05 pm »
+2

This may be too set specific, but it was kinda neat.  Had mill, ironmonger and capitalism.  Hitting a golden mill was a pretty nice play. discard the mill get a coin an action and a new card card, or keep the mill if needed.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2019, 10:29:23 pm by Honkeyfresh »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1448 on: December 30, 2019, 03:40:37 pm »
+1

Transmogrify+Silk Merchant

You can Transmogrify a Silk Merchant into itself for a free Villager and Coffer!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1449 on: December 31, 2019, 12:57:42 am »
0

This may be too specific to e a combo, put since it's a golden deck that was oh so fire I gotta put it in here. It's a pirate ship Prince x2 , 3 bandit camps and a Ghost ship.  Trashing was key (here it was forge) as it is in any real golden deck (sans counting house or guildhall, maybe goons?)  But really any coin producing draw, with trashing and discards could work in here. but my opponent (the names have been changed to not shame anyone-- but he was a 52+ rated player)  raced off to a 18-0 lead taking provies on t 13/14/17. So firing 2 pirate ships (never for pay just to take al his coins away.  he even tried to prince a church in order to keep the cards out of my pirate ships reach  At first he was even trashing coppers so not to feed my ships until he realized that I was drawing my 3 spoils and recruiter every hand (which was only relevant at beginning, was just never worth getting rid of. Kept it in case i needed to maybe trash a spoils to draw enough) Expedition helped to get early forge and once to keep spoils out of my pile (he had on pirate ship at that point.  he even tried to get silk roads and estates  to sneak under the cannons of my mighty Princed Pirate Party , and even coppers at end at end to get out of the pin. but it was no use. And this happened literally at midnight so happy dominion NYE to me lol.

Non Colony Board: Church, Pirate Ship, Silk Road, Bandit Camp, Ghost Ship, Recruiter, Swashbuckler, Werewolf, Forge, Prince, Expedition, Plan
At end

honkeyfresh:
5 Provinces, a Ghost Ship, 2 Pirate Ships, 3 Bandit Camps, a Spoils, a Recruiter and 2 Princes

Lord Rattington:
a Copper, a Gold, 4 Estates, 3 Provinces, a Silk Road, a Bandit Camp, a Spoils, a Recruiter, a Swashbuckler, a Prince and 2 Churches

[quote]Game #34177283,
Turn 1 - honkeyfresh
h plays 4 Coppers. (+$4)
h buys an Expedition.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws 4 Coppers and 3 Estates.

Turn 1 - Lord Rattington
L plays 3 Coppers. (+$3)
L buys and gains a Church.
L draws 5 cards.

Turn 2 - honkeyfresh
h plays 3 Coppers. (+$3)
h buys and gains a Silver.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws 5 Coppers.

Turn 2 - Lord Rattington
L plays 4 Coppers. (+$4)
L buys and gains a Silver.
L shuffles their deck.
L draws 5 cards.

Turn 3 - honkeyfresh
h plays 5 Coppers. (+$5)
h buys and gains a Recruiter.
h draws 2 Coppers, a Silver and 2 Estates.

Turn 3 - Lord Rattington
L plays 5 Coppers. (+$5)
L buys and gains a Swashbuckler.
L draws 5 cards.

Turn 4 - honkeyfresh
h plays 2 Coppers and a Silver. (+$4)
h buys an Expedition.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws 5 Coppers, a Silver and an Estate.

Turn 4 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Copper and a Silver. (+$3)
L buys and gains a Silver.
L shuffles their deck.
L draws 5 cards.

Turn 5 - honkeyfresh
h plays 5 Coppers and a Silver. (+$7)
h buys and gains a Forge.
h draws 2 Coppers, 2 Estates and a Recruiter.

Turn 5 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Church.
L gets +1 Action.
L sets 2 cards aside with Church.
L plays a Copper and a Silver. (+$3)
L buys and gains a Church.
L draws 5 cards.

Turn 6 - honkeyfresh
h plays a Recruiter.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws 2 Coppers.
h trashes an Estate.
h gets +2 Villagers.
h plays 4 Coppers. (+$4)
h buys an Expedition.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws 4 Coppers, a Silver, an Estate and a Forge.

Turn 6 - Lord Rattington
L starts their turn.
L puts 2 cards in hand (Church).
L trashes a Copper.
L plays 4 Coppers and a Silver. (+$6)
L buys and gains a Gold.
L shuffles their deck.
L draws 5 cards.

Turn 7 - honkeyfresh
h plays a Forge.
h trashes 4 Coppers, a Silver and an Estate.
h gains a Bandit Camp.
h draws 3 Coppers, an Estate and a Recruiter.

Turn 7 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Swashbuckler.
L draws 3 cards.
L plays 4 Coppers. (+$4)
L buys an Expedition.
L draws 7 cards.

Turn 8 - honkeyfresh
h plays a Recruiter.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Forge and a Bandit Camp.
h trashes a Copper.
h uses 1 Villager.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays 2 Coppers. (+$2)
h buys and gains an Estate.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Copper, 2 Estates, a Forge and a Recruiter.

Turn 8 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Church.
L gets +1 Action.
L sets 2 cards aside with Church.
L plays a Copper, 2 Silvers and a Gold. (+$8)
L buys and gains a Prince.
L shuffles their deck.
L draws 5 cards.

Turn 9 - honkeyfresh
h plays a Recruiter.
h draws a Copper and a Spoils.
h trashes an Estate.
h gets +2 Villagers.
h plays 2 Coppers. (+$2)
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
h buys and gains a Bandit Camp.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Copper, an Estate, 2 Bandit Camps and a Recruiter.

Turn 9 - Lord Rattington
L starts their turn.
L puts 2 cards in hand (Church).
L trashes a Copper.
L plays a Church.
L gets +1 Action.
L sets 3 cards aside with Church.
L plays a Silver and a Gold. (+$5)
L buys and gains a Bandit Camp.
L draws 5 cards.

Turn 10 - honkeyfresh
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h draws a Forge.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h draws a Copper.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Recruiter.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws 2 Spoils.
h trashes an Estate.
h gets +2 Villagers.
h plays 2 Coppers. (+$2)
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
h buys and gains a Prince.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws 2 Coppers, a Bandit Camp, a Recruiter and a Prince.

Turn 10 - Lord Rattington
L starts their turn.
L puts 3 cards in hand (Church).
L trashes a Copper.
L plays a Swashbuckler.
L draws 3 cards.
L gets +1 Coffers.
L plays 4 Coppers and a Silver. (+$6)
L buys and gains a Recruiter.
L shuffles their deck.
L draws 5 cards.

Turn 11 - honkeyfresh
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h draws a Bandit Camp.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h draws a Forge.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Recruiter.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws 2 Spoils.
h trashes a Forge.
h gets +7 Villagers.
h plays 2 Coppers. (+$2)
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
h buys and gains a Pirate Ship.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Pirate Ship, 2 Bandit Camps, a Recruiter and a Prince.

Turn 11 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Church.
L gets +1 Action.
L sets a card aside with Church.
L plays 2 Coppers and a Silver. (+$4)
L buys and gains a Pirate Ship.
L draws 5 cards.

Turn 12 - honkeyfresh
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h draws a Copper.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h draws a Spoils.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Recruiter.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Copper and a Spoils.
h trashes a Copper.
h plays a Prince.
h sets a Pirate Ship aside with Prince.
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
h plays a Copper. (+$1)
h buys and gains a Pirate Ship.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Copper, a Bandit Camp, 2 Spoils and a Recruiter.

Turn 12 - Lord Rattington
L starts their turn.
L puts a card in hand (Church).
L plays a Prince.
L sets a Church aside with Prince.
L plays a Silver. (+$2)
L buys and gains an Estate.
L draws 5 cards.

Turn 13 - honkeyfresh
h starts their turn.
h plays a Pirate Ship.
L shuffles their deck.
L reveals 2 Estates.
L discards 2 Estates.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h draws a Pirate Ship.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Recruiter.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Bandit Camp and a Spoils.
h trashes a Copper.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Pirate Ship.
L reveals a Church and a Pirate Ship.
L discards a Pirate Ship and a Church.
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
h buys and gains a Prince.
h sets a Pirate Ship aside.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Pirate Ship, a Bandit Camp, a Spoils, a Recruiter and a Prince.

Turn 13 - Lord Rattington
L starts their turn.
L plays a Church.
L gets +1 Action.
L sets a card aside with Church.
L plays a Bandit Camp.
L draws a card.
L gets +2 Actions.
L gains a Spoils.
L plays a Recruiter.
L draws 2 cards.
L trashes a Copper.
L plays a Swashbuckler.
L draws 3 cards.
L gets +1 Coffers.
L plays a Copper, 2 Silvers and a Gold. (+$8)
L buys and gains a Province.
L shuffles their deck.
L draws 5 cards.

Turn 14 - honkeyfresh
h starts their turn.
h plays a Pirate Ship.
L reveals a Copper and an Estate.
L trashes a Copper.
L discards an Estate.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h draws a Bandit Camp.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Spoils.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Recruiter.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Spoils.
h trashes a Spoils.
h plays a Prince.
h sets a Pirate Ship aside with Prince.
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
h buys and gains a Ghost Ship.
h sets a Pirate Ship aside.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Ghost Ship, 2 Bandit Camps and a Recruiter.

Turn 14 - Lord Rattington
L starts their turn.
L puts a card in hand (Church).
L plays a Pirate Ship.
L plays 2 Coppers and a Gold. (+$5)
L plays a Spoils. (+$3)
L returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
L buys and gains a Province.
L draws 5 cards.

Turn 15 - honkeyfresh
h starts their turn.
h plays a Pirate Ship.
L reveals a Church and a Swashbuckler.
L discards a Swashbuckler and a Church.
h plays a Pirate Ship.
L reveals a Silver and an Estate.
L trashes a Silver.
L discards an Estate.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Spoils.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Ghost Ship.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Spoils.
L topdecks 2 cards.
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
h buys and gains a Bandit Camp.
h sets 2 Pirate Ships aside.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Ghost Ship, 3 Bandit Camps and a Recruiter.

Turn 15 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Bandit Camp.
L draws a card.
L gets +2 Actions.
L gains a Spoils.
L plays a Recruiter.
L shuffles their deck.
L draws 2 cards.
L trashes a Silver.
L gets +3 Villagers.
L draws 5 cards.

Turn 16 - honkeyfresh
h starts their turn.
h plays a Pirate Ship.
L reveals a Copper and a Swashbuckler.
L trashes a Copper.
L discards a Swashbuckler.
h plays a Pirate Ship.
L reveals a Province and a Church.
L discards a Province and a Church.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Spoils.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Spoils.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Ghost Ship.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Spoils.
L topdecks 2 cards.
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
h buys and gains a Province.
h sets 2 Pirate Ships aside.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Province, 3 Bandit Camps and a Recruiter.

Turn 16 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Church.
L gets +1 Action.
L sets 2 cards aside with Church.
L shuffles their deck.
L draws 5 cards.

Turn 17 - honkeyfresh
h starts their turn.
h plays a Pirate Ship.
L reveals a Bandit Camp and an Estate.
L discards an Estate and a Bandit Camp.
h plays a Pirate Ship.
L reveals a Province and an Estate.
L discards an Estate and a Province.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h draws a Ghost Ship.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Spoils.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Spoils.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Ghost Ship.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Spoils.
L topdecks 2 cards.
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
h buys and gains a Province.
h sets 2 Pirate Ships aside.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Province, 3 Bandit Camps and a Recruiter.

Turn 17 - Lord Rattington
L starts their turn.
L puts 2 cards in hand (Church).
L trashes a Copper.
L plays a Pirate Ship.
h reveals a Province and a Ghost Ship.
h discards a Province and a Ghost Ship.
L uses 2 Coffers. (+$2)
L plays a Gold. (+$3)
L plays a Spoils. (+$3)
L returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
L buys and gains a Province.
L draws 5 cards.

Turn 18 - honkeyfresh
h starts their turn.
h plays a Pirate Ship.
L shuffles their deck.
L reveals a Church and a Bandit Camp.
L discards a Bandit Camp and a Church.
h plays a Pirate Ship.
L reveals a Province and an Estate.
L discards an Estate and a Province.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Ghost Ship.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h draws a Province.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Spoils.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Ghost Ship.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws 2 Spoils.
L topdecks 2 cards.
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
h buys and gains a Province.
h sets 2 Pirate Ships aside.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws 2 Provinces, a Ghost Ship and 2 Bandit Camps.

Turn 18 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Church.
L gets +1 Action.
L sets a card aside with Church.
L plays a Swashbuckler.
L draws 3 cards.
L gets +1 Coffers.
L shuffles their deck.
L draws 5 cards.

Turn 19 - honkeyfresh
h starts their turn.
h plays a Pirate Ship.
L reveals a Bandit Camp and an Estate.
L discards an Estate and a Bandit Camp.
h plays a Pirate Ship.
L reveals a Province and a Swashbuckler.
L discards a Province and a Swashbuckler.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h draws a Recruiter.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h draws a Province.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Ghost Ship.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Bandit Camp and a Spoils.
L topdecks 2 cards.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h draws a Spoils.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
h buys an Expedition.
h sets 2 Pirate Ships aside.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws a Province, 3 Bandit Camps, 2 Spoils and a Recruiter.

Turn 19 - Lord Rattington
L starts their turn.
L puts a card in hand (Church).
L plays a Recruiter.
L draws 2 cards.
L trashes a Pirate Ship.
L gets +4 Villagers.
L plays a Gold. (+$3)
L uses 1 Coffers. (+$1)
L buys and gains a Silk Road.
L shuffles their deck.
L draws 5 cards.

Turn 20 - honkeyfresh
h starts their turn.
h plays a Pirate Ship.
L reveals 2 Estates.
L discards 2 Estates.
h plays a Pirate Ship.
L reveals a Recruiter and a Swashbuckler.
L discards a Recruiter and a Swashbuckler.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h draws a Ghost Ship.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h draws a Province.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h draws a Province.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Ghost Ship.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws 2 Spoils.
L topdecks 2 cards.
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.
h buys and gains a Province.
h sets 2 Pirate Ships aside.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws 2 Provinces, a Bandit Camp and 2 Spoils.

Turn 20 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Bandit Camp.
L draws a card.
L gets +2 Actions.
L gains a Spoils.
L plays a Church.
L gets +1 Action.
L sets 2 cards aside with Church.
L buys and gains a Copper.
L draws 5 cards.

Turn 21 - honkeyfresh
h starts their turn.
h plays a Pirate Ship.
h gets +$3.
h plays a Pirate Ship.
L shuffles their deck.
L reveals a Province and an Estate.
L discards an Estate and a Province.
h plays a Bandit Camp.
h draws a Ghost Ship.
h gets +2 Actions.
h gains a Spoils.
h plays a Ghost Ship.
h draws a Province and a Recruiter.
L topdecks 2 cards.
h plays a Spoils. (+$3)
h returns a Spoils to the Spoils pile.[/quote]


« Last Edit: December 31, 2019, 01:14:26 am by Honkeyfresh »
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spineflu

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1450 on: December 31, 2019, 08:01:12 pm »
0

Festival, Donate, Tomb. Buy and trash the entire coppers pile, have a deck with no green, and still win on vp tokens.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1451 on: January 01, 2020, 01:08:44 pm »
+1

Festival, Donate, Tomb. Buy and trash the entire coppers pile, have a deck with no green, and still win on vp tokens.

Why Festival? Surely Market or Squire would be better.
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crj

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1452 on: January 01, 2020, 01:30:36 pm »
+3

Market or Squire
Misread that at first.

Now I want there to a card called Market Squire. And one called Square.
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spineflu

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1453 on: January 01, 2020, 04:09:21 pm »
+1

Festival, Donate, Tomb. Buy and trash the entire coppers pile, have a deck with no green, and still win on vp tokens.

Why Festival? Surely Market or Squire would be better.
oh sure; those just weren't in the game I did this in, festival was.
although squire, drawing a handful of those you end up with the one more buy but fewer money than festival.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2020, 04:11:17 pm by spineflu »
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MeNowDealWithIt

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1454 on: January 07, 2020, 08:14:49 pm »
+1

Festival, Donate, Tomb. Buy and trash the entire coppers pile, have a deck with no green, and still win on vp tokens.

This strat also works with Goons and a Village, rather than a +buy card and Tomb.
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mxdata

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1455 on: January 10, 2020, 03:16:03 pm »
0

Mountain Village + Training is an interesting combo, if you have enough Mountain Villages.  You can easily play multiple Mountain Villages that way for +$1 each
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mxdata

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1456 on: January 12, 2020, 09:54:29 pm »
+6

Magpie + Watchtower let me gain the rest of the magpie pile.   I happened to have two magpies and a Watchtower in hand. Played a magpie, drew a copper and revealed an Estate.  Gained a magpie, used Watchtower to topdeck it.  Played the second magpie, drew the magpie I'd just gained and, of course, revealed the same Estate as before.  Gained another magpie, topdecked it, repeated, until I'd emptied the pile
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ehunt

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1457 on: March 27, 2020, 09:50:19 am »
+1

Stockpile is a good Minion starter. Makes Minion affordable early and then gets itself out of the way.
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AJD

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1458 on: March 27, 2020, 10:42:11 am »
+3

Sanctuary is great on a Fountain board: exiling Copper gets it out of your deck without losing Fountain points, and it provides +Buy to pick up the extra Copper you need.
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villafan001

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1459 on: March 30, 2020, 11:49:56 am »
+2

I just had a game where the Kingdom included Upgrade, Fortress and Royal Carriage.

To make matters even more amusing, Donate was available - so having bought a Silver, 2 Golds, Fortress and two Upgrades I could Donate - trash everything else (yes, I suppose I could have trashed the $ too, an error on my part!) and used the Double Upgrade-Fortress combo to pile the Upgrades and then pick up as many Royal Carriages as my opponent didn’t buy, queuing them all on the Tavern mat as they came up. The following turn, I had enough plays of Upgrade on Fortress to pile the Duchies, buy a Province for good measure and win 30-0 in 12 turns. Completely mad - I suspect the other player didn’t see what was going to happen until the turn when the piles started to empty.

Upgrade + Fortress: one worth knowing about!
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tim17

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1460 on: March 31, 2020, 08:31:09 pm »
+3

Scepter + Cavalry is an interesting way of getting +actions when there are no villages. Play scepters on your nonterminals to get extra actions, and then buy cavalry so that you can actually use them.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1461 on: April 01, 2020, 11:47:04 pm »
+5

A couple more I came across today:

rats + way of the horse: replace all your junk with horses
sculptor + feodum: Turns out feodum likes nonterminal silver gaining to hand; this one turned out to be a bit stronger than I would have guessed.
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ehunt

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1462 on: April 02, 2020, 12:45:55 am »
+3

village green makes rabble a lot worse than smithy
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ipofanes

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1463 on: April 02, 2020, 08:05:00 am »
+1

Treasure Trove and Commerce deliver three Gold in one turn and should permit a BM strategy. Bonus if you have Forager/Spice Merchant/Hideout to deal with the pesky Coppers.

On a similar note, the purchase of Destriers could be prepared by a Stampede, if possible.
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hhelibebcnofnena

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1464 on: April 02, 2020, 08:16:52 am »
+3

Hunting Party/Village Green can be an easy way to draw a lot of cards at once
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silverspawn

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1465 on: April 02, 2020, 02:07:15 pm »
+7

A really strong combination that I've seen work twice recently is Sentry and Fortune. First, you need to use your fortune to have 5/2. Then you use your fortune to draw Sentry on turn 3. Then you use it again to draw the same sentry on turns 4 and 5. At that point, you've almost certainly won the game.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1466 on: April 02, 2020, 02:10:35 pm »
0

A really strong combination that I've seen work twice recently is Sentry and Fortune. First, you need to use your fortune to have 5/2. Then you use your fortune to draw Sentry on turn 3. Then you use it again to draw the same sentry on turns 4 and 5. At that point, you've almost certainly won the game.

Fortune? isn't that not available until after the gladiators are gone?
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hhelibebcnofnena

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1467 on: April 02, 2020, 03:51:01 pm »
+4

A really strong combination that I've seen work twice recently is Sentry and Fortune. First, you need to use your fortune to have 5/2. Then you use your fortune to draw Sentry on turn 3. Then you use it again to draw the same sentry on turns 4 and 5. At that point, you've almost certainly won the game.

Fortune? isn't that not available until after the gladiators are gone?

Fortune isn't available until the Gladiators are gone, but fortune is available at any point in any game. Fortune only gives coins and a buy, but fortune can make a winner. Sometimes you even need fortune to get Fortune.

Edit: Fortune no longer sounds like a word.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2020, 03:53:52 pm by hhelibebcnofnena »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1468 on: April 02, 2020, 03:58:44 pm »
0

A really strong combination that I've seen work twice recently is Sentry and Fortune. First, you need to use your fortune to have 5/2. Then you use your fortune to draw Sentry on turn 3. Then you use it again to draw the same sentry on turns 4 and 5. At that point, you've almost certainly won the game.

Fortune? isn't that not available until after the gladiators are gone?

Fortune isn't available until the Gladiators are gone, but fortune is available at any point in any game. Fortune only gives coins and a buy, but fortune can make a winner. Sometimes you even need fortune to get Fortune.

Edit: Fortune no longer sounds like a word.

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tim17

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1469 on: April 03, 2020, 11:42:02 pm »
+3

Wayfarer + Replace interaction is neat. Replace a Wayfarer into a province, and then the curse your opponent gets makes Wayfarer cost 0, so it should be easy to replace it buy another one.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1470 on: April 03, 2020, 11:58:36 pm »
0

A really strong combination that I've seen work twice recently is Sentry and Fortune. First, you need to use your fortune to have 5/2. Then you use your fortune to draw Sentry on turn 3. Then you use it again to draw the same sentry on turns 4 and 5. At that point, you've almost certainly won the game.

Fortune? isn't that not available until after the gladiators are gone?

Fortune isn't available until the Gladiators are gone, but fortune is available at any point in any game. Fortune only gives coins and a buy, but fortune can make a winner. Sometimes you even need fortune to get Fortune.

Edit: Fortune no longer sounds like a word.

:golfclap:

how does this only have 2 upvotes.   8)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1471 on: April 04, 2020, 12:23:29 am »
+4

Fisherman normally can only be bought once per turn for its low cost, but if you have topdecking effects (Tracker, Travelling Fair, Watchtower, Royal Seal), then each one can have the cheap price. I was in a game with Quarry, Travelling Fair, and Fisherman where I was fortunate enough to hit Quarry + 3 Coppers on T3, topdecking 3 Fisherman for T4.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1472 on: April 04, 2020, 01:12:13 am »
0

A really strong combination that I've seen work twice recently is Sentry and Fortune. First, you need to use your fortune to have 5/2. Then you use your fortune to draw Sentry on turn 3. Then you use it again to draw the same sentry on turns 4 and 5. At that point, you've almost certainly won the game.

Fortune? isn't that not available until after the gladiators are gone?

Fortune isn't available until the Gladiators are gone, but fortune is available at any point in any game. Fortune only gives coins and a buy, but fortune can make a winner. Sometimes you even need fortune to get Fortune.

Edit: Fortune no longer sounds like a word.

:golfclap:

how does this only have 2 upvotes.   8)

Because that was silverspawn's joke to begin with.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1473 on: April 04, 2020, 02:22:47 am »
+3

A really strong combination that I've seen work twice recently is Sentry and Fortune. First, you need to use your fortune to have 5/2. Then you use your fortune to draw Sentry on turn 3. Then you use it again to draw the same sentry on turns 4 and 5. At that point, you've almost certainly won the game.

Fortune? isn't that not available until after the gladiators are gone?

Fortune isn't available until the Gladiators are gone, but fortune is available at any point in any game. Fortune only gives coins and a buy, but fortune can make a winner. Sometimes you even need fortune to get Fortune.

Edit: Fortune no longer sounds like a word.

:golfclap:

how does this only have 2 upvotes.   8)

Because that was silverspawn's joke to begin with.

But explaining the joke makes it funnier.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1474 on: April 08, 2020, 07:03:02 pm »
+2

Groom + Highway has a couple things going for it beyond just cost reduction + extra gains. The horses really help you move through the deck to find more highways and grooms, and then the cantrip effect makes it a lot easier to find/play all your grooms when you go for the megaturn. It's interesting to compare groom to cantrip +buy (e.g. market, seaway) in the context of highway. Groom is worse in that it's a terminal stop card when not greening (though the horse sort of offsets the lack of +card), but better in that you only need 4 of the highways to get provinces.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1475 on: April 10, 2020, 02:45:05 am »
0

Improve/Rats is definitely a "potentially useful" card interaction. If there are a lot of good $5s, it's great, but once the $5s you want run out you're going to be stuck turning your Rats into a lot of Duchies or Counting Houses or whatever.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1476 on: April 10, 2020, 09:47:14 am »
0

Possibly more useful for ending on piles?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1477 on: April 10, 2020, 03:58:47 pm »
0

Just had a game with Mastermind, Livery, and Way of the Chameleon.  On turns where Livery was in my initial hand, I was able to Mastermind it for +9 cards, and since that kingdom also had Villa (AKA quasi-Worker's Village with Chameleon), there was plenty of +buy.  Several times I had a Masterminded Livery and two other Liveries in play, giving me 5 horses for each $4 or more buy (I had a couple of turns where I got 15 Horses - it was a bot game, so I was the only one doing that, if I were playing human opponents, the Horse pile might well have emptied a few times)!  So many horses.  It became really easy to draw my whole deck most turns
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tim17

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1478 on: April 10, 2020, 05:25:41 pm »
+1

Had a game with a couple nice scepter interactions:

1. Scepter + Delay: Use scepters on draw cards, and then delay any actions you draw (if you have the buys). Gets around a lack of villages quite nicely.

2. Scepter + Kiln: If you've drawn your deck, scepter your kilns to get more scepters/golds/etc and then scepter a draw card to draw and play them.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1479 on: April 12, 2020, 12:56:23 am »
+1

Way of the Sheep + Necropolis is a good way to get a better card in Turn 1 or Turn 2 than you would with an ordinary start
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1480 on: April 12, 2020, 08:26:06 am »
+5

Way of the horse + Lackeys. $2 for a horse and two villagers is pretty bonkers.
Way of the horse + Death cart. $4 for 2 horses and a one shot platinum is also pretty bonkers.
Way of the horse + any throne. Honestly just buying a random $2 action for the sole purpose of throning it as a horse can be quite good in many situations if +buy/cheap gains are easy to get.

Mastermind + supplies. Supplies guarentees you start the turn with a horse in hand, and horses are one of the best things to mastermind.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1481 on: April 12, 2020, 02:27:00 pm »
+2

Way of the Sheep + Necropolis is a good way to get a better card in Turn 1 or Turn 2 than you would with an ordinary start

Shelters in general work really nicely with a lot of Ways
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1482 on: April 13, 2020, 04:17:52 pm »
+1

Festival, Donate, Tomb. Buy and trash the entire coppers pile, have a deck with no green, and still win on vp tokens.

Add Beggars to increase the number of Coppers per hand.
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Trogdor the Burninator

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1483 on: April 14, 2020, 10:29:36 pm »
+1

Way of the Horse + Ruins


Can function as a way to return Ruins to the pile

If there are cards that give out ruins and you have the actions to play them, then you can not only return the ruins to the pile, you can give them right back to your opponent

Although, if both players are Horsing around with the Ruins, then you run into a similar situation to Ambassador Estate Tennis
« Last Edit: April 14, 2020, 10:31:07 pm by Trogdor the Burninator »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1484 on: April 14, 2020, 10:34:46 pm »
+7

Way of the Horse + Ruins


Can function as a way to return Ruins to the pile

If there are cards that give out ruins and you have the actions to play them, then you can not only return the ruins to the pile, you can give them right back to your opponent

Although, if both players are Horsing around with the Ruins, then you run into a similar situation to Ambassador Estate Tennis

But if Way of the Horse is in play, then you wouldn't want to give them Ruins.  Ruins become basically free Horses - you'd actually want to buy them if you have extra buys, and your opponent playing a Marauder or Cultist becomes "Hey, thanks for the free Horse!"
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1485 on: April 14, 2020, 10:55:11 pm »
+4

Way of the Horse + Ruins


Can function as a way to return Ruins to the pile

If there are cards that give out ruins and you have the actions to play them, then you can not only return the ruins to the pile, you can give them right back to your opponent

Although, if both players are Horsing around with the Ruins, then you run into a similar situation to Ambassador Estate Tennis

Upvoted for the expression "Horsing around with the Ruins."

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1486 on: April 15, 2020, 06:37:25 am »
0

Improve/Rats is definitely a "potentially useful" card interaction.

The "draw card on trashing Rats" effect is almost wasted with Improve though.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1487 on: April 17, 2020, 12:30:52 am »
+3

University + Cavalry

At least until the Cavalries run out, your Universities are now Lost Cities with a +buy tagged on for good measure.


University + Kiln

University gains you more Kilns, Kiln is one of the only cards that can gain you more Universities


Found these in the Menagerie/Alchemy recommended set. Vineyards were crazy powerful.
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estwdjhn

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1488 on: April 18, 2020, 01:11:50 pm »
+5

Way of the Chameleon and City Quarter is completely mental.

I trashed pretty much everything except for a pile of random actions (didn't really matter what they were), then over a couple of tuns once the show was rolling bought a total of 9 of the city quarters, and 8 sulks (for the +buy), (I think I used engineer as an enabler to get the sulks faster) then managed to hit 89 coin with 9 buys to buy out the whole province pile with rather a lot to spare. My opponent hadn't figured what I was planning until too late, from the point of having trashed most non actions and owning a single city quarter to the megaturn only took 3 turns...
« Last Edit: April 18, 2020, 01:13:08 pm by estwdjhn »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1489 on: April 18, 2020, 09:06:21 pm »
+2

That's Skulks. Sulks would be a very different card. (-8
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1490 on: April 19, 2020, 08:11:46 pm »
0

Way of the Chameleon and City Quarter is completely mental.

I trashed pretty much everything except for a pile of random actions (didn't really matter what they were), then over a couple of tuns once the show was rolling bought a total of 9 of the city quarters, and 8 sulks (for the +buy), (I think I used engineer as an enabler to get the sulks faster) then managed to hit 89 coin with 9 buys to buy out the whole province pile with rather a lot to spare. My opponent hadn't figured what I was planning until too late, from the point of having trashed most non actions and owning a single city quarter to the megaturn only took 3 turns...

nice
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1491 on: April 21, 2020, 12:36:22 pm »
0

Hunting Lodge + Goons

or

Hunting Lodge + Monument

Play a Hunting Lodge for actions. If you're out of Goons/Monument, replace your hand. Play Goons/Monument until you need more actions. Play a Hunting Lodge for five fresh cards. Repeat.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1492 on: April 22, 2020, 10:33:03 am »
0

Hunting Lodge + Goons

or

Hunting Lodge + Monument

Play a Hunting Lodge for actions. If you're out of Goons/Monument, replace your hand. Play Goons/Monument until you need more actions. Play a Hunting Lodge for five fresh cards. Repeat.

Hunting Lodge is similar to Cursed Village. It is a bit better with weak trashing as the search space for useful cards is a bit wider. The bad cards are discarded and don't count against the draw-to-6. And played from a big hand it is at least not a Necropolis. There are some cases where I'd prefer Cursed Village, especially with a lean deck, but overall Hunting Lodge would get the nod.
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tim17

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1493 on: April 25, 2020, 01:52:37 am »
+2

Hostelry + Watchtower is pretty nice if you can gain the hostelries mid-turn. Discard all your treasures for horses, topdecking the hostelry and the horses, and then play the watchtower to draw them all.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1494 on: April 25, 2020, 01:56:42 am »
+2

Hostelry + Alms is pretty hilarious
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1495 on: April 25, 2020, 06:18:20 pm »
+1

I don’t know if someone already post this one. Sorry for post again, if it’s not new.

Hand: Priest, Fortress, Trader
Events: Travelling Fair, Advance
Landmark: Tomb

1 – Play Priest - now you have $2
2  - Trash Fortress
3 – Buy Travelling Fair – now you have 2 buys
4 – Buy Advance
5 – Trash Fortress – gain 1 VP from Tomb and $2 from Priest
6 – Gain any action card from supply (Advance)
7 – Use Trader reaction to instead gain a silver
Repeat steps 3 to 7 indefinitely for infinite VPs

Edit: right after I posted this, someone mentioned this combo in another post, so it's already known. Sorry for repost.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2020, 06:36:04 pm by Carline »
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Carline

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1496 on: April 25, 2020, 10:12:45 pm »
+2

This one I think is new:

Hand: 3 Highways, Goons
Empty deck and empty discard pile
Way: Way of the Chameleon
Events: Seaway, Gamble
Seaway +1 Buy token in Experiment pile

1 – Play the 3 Highways
2 – Play Goons – now you have $2 and 2 buys
3 – Buy Experiment at Cost 0 – gain 1 VP from Goons – receive another Experiment
4 – Buy Gamble
5 – Play Experiment as Chameleon – gain $2 and +1 buy (by Seaway token) - Experiment returns to its pile
6 – Buy Gamble
7 – Play Experiment as Chameleon – gain $2 and +1 buy - Experiment returns to its pile
Repeat steps 3 to 7 indefinitely for infinite VPs
« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 01:12:18 am by Carline »
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Carline

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1497 on: April 26, 2020, 12:59:59 am »
0

Way of the Horse, Seaway and Villa in the setup
Hand: 4 Merchant Guilds and a Goons
4 Villagers in Villagers Mat
Seaway +1 buy token in Villa pile

1 – Play the 4 Merchant Guilds
2 – Play Goons
3 – Buy Villa – Gain 1 VP from Goons – Gain 4 Coffers from Merchant Guilds
On gain Villa goes to hand, give + 1 action and returns game to action phase
4 – Play Villa as Way of the Horse – gain +1 Buy - Villa returns to its pile
5 – Play 4 Coffers
Repeat steps 3 to 5 indefinitely for infinite VPs
« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 02:44:09 am by Carline »
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tim17

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1498 on: April 26, 2020, 02:26:44 am »
0

Way of the Horse and Villa in the setup
Hand: 4 Merchant Guilds and a Goons
4 Villagers in Villagers Mat

1 – Play the 4 Merchant Guilds
2 – Play Goons
3 – Buy Villa – Gain 1 VP from Goons – Gain 4 Coffers from Merchant Guilds
On gain Villa goes to hand, give + 1 action and returns game to action phase
4 – Play Villa as Way of the Horse – Villa returns to its pile
5 – Play 4 Coffers
Repeat steps 3 to 5 indefinitely for infinite VPs


I think this doesn't work? If you play Villa as Way of the Horse, you don't get the +buy back, so you run out of buys.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1499 on: April 26, 2020, 11:31:50 am »
0

Way of the Horse and Villa in the setup
Hand: 4 Merchant Guilds and a Goons
4 Villagers in Villagers Mat

1 – Play the 4 Merchant Guilds - Gain 4 Coffers from Merchant Guilds
2 – Play Goons
3 – Buy Villa – Gain 1 VP from Goons
On gain Villa goes to hand, give + 1 action and returns game to action phase
4 – Play Villa as Way of the Horse – Villa returns to its pile
5 – Play 4 Coffers
Repeat steps 3 to 5 indefinitely for infinite VPs


I think this doesn't work? If you play Villa as Way of the Horse, you don't get the +buy back, so you run out of buys.

It works! I tried it at Dominion Online.

However, in the first posting I missed the Seaway part, even though I had already used it in the test. I edited later to include. Thank you.

The complete loop is this:

Way of the Horse, Seaway and Villa in the setup
Hand: 4 Merchant Guilds and a Goons
4 Villagers in Villagers Mat
Seaway +1 buy token in Villa pile

1 – Play the 4 Merchant Guilds
2 – Play Goons
3 – Buy Villa – Gain 1 VP from Goons – Gain 4 Coffers from Merchant Guilds
On gain Villa goes to hand, gives + 1 action and returns game to action phase
4 – Play Villa as Way of the Horse – gain +1 Buy - Villa returns to its pile
5 – Play 4 Coffers
Repeat steps 3 to 5 indefinitely for infinite VPs

You can use Highways instead of Merchant Guilds for the same result. In this case, you don't need the Villagers and Coffers:

Way of the Horse, Seaway and Villa in the setup
Hand: 4 Highways and a Goons
Seaway +1 buy token in Villa pile

1 – Play the 4 Highways
2 – Play Goons
3 – Buy Villa – Gain 1 VP from Goons
On gain Villa goes to hand, gives + 1 action and returns game to action phase
4 – Play Villa as Way of the Horse – gain +1 Buy - Villa returns to its pile
Repeat steps 3 and 4 indefinitely for infinite VPs
« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 01:13:48 pm by Carline »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1500 on: April 26, 2020, 02:49:39 pm »
0

For that loop, you don't actually need to net an action each time as long as you have 1 to start, so you can replace the Seaway+Villa with just Cavalry, if you were able to draw your deck.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1501 on: April 26, 2020, 04:28:20 pm »
+1

Events: Gamble, Bonfire, Seaway, Training
Project: Capitalism (player cube already there)
Seaway +1 Buy token in Treasurer pile
Training + $1 token in Treasurer pile
Two Treasurers already in the trash
Two Treasurers and a Royal Seal in hand

1 – Skip action phase
2 – Play Royal Seal (now you have $2 and 1 Buy)
3– Play Treasurer – gain a Treasurer from trash - topdeck it ($6 – 2 Buys)
4 – Play Treasurer –gain a Treasurer from trash - topdeck it ($10 – 3 Buys)
5 – Buy Bonfire – trash two Treasurers from play ($7 – 2 Buys)
6 – Buy Gamble ($5 – 2 Buys)
7 – Play Treasurer – gain a Treasurer from trash - topdeck it ($9 – 3 Buys)
8 – Buy Gamble ($7 – 3 Buys)
9 – Play Treasurer – gain a Treasurer from trash - topdeck it ($11 – 4 Buys)
Repeat Steps 5 to 9 indefinitely for infinite money and buys

You don't need Royal Seal if you already drew your whole deck.

(Edited to fix steps numbers)
« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 05:05:15 pm by Carline »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1502 on: April 26, 2020, 04:50:37 pm »
+1

You do need Royal Seal even if you drew your deck because Treasurer gains to hand.
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Carline

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1503 on: April 26, 2020, 05:08:28 pm »
0

You do need Royal Seal even if you drew your deck because Treasurer gains to hand.

Yes, I forgot Treasurers gains to hand. Considering this, you don't need to topdeck them if you use Toil instead of Gamble:

Events: Toil, Bonfire, Seaway, Training
Project: Capitalism (player cube already there)
Seaway +1 Buy token in Treasurer pile
Training + $1 token in Treasurer pile
Two Treasurers already in the trash
Two Treasurers in hand

1 – Skip action phase
2 – Play Treasurer – gain a Treasurer from trash ($4 – 2 Buys)
3 – Play Treasurer –gain a Treasurer from trash ($8 – 3 Buys)
4 – Buy Bonfire – trash two Treasurers from play ($5 – 2 Buys)
5 – Buy Toil ($3 – 2 Buys)
6 – Play Treasurer – gain a Treasurer from trash ($7 – 3 Buys)
7 – Buy Toil ($5 – 3 Buys)
8 – Play Treasurer – gain a Treasurer from trash ($9 – 4 Buys)
Repeat Steps 4 to 8 indefinitely for infinite money and buys
« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 05:18:03 pm by Carline »
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jamfamsam

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1504 on: April 26, 2020, 05:51:22 pm »
+7

Possibly neat, but how is this potentially uesful?
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Carline

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1505 on: April 26, 2020, 05:56:51 pm »
0

Possibly neat, but how is this potentially uesful?

Sorry, I will start a topic for these infinite loops. Thank you!
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Carline

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1506 on: April 27, 2020, 12:00:48 pm »
0

For that loop, you don't actually need to net an action each time as long as you have 1 to start, so you can replace the Seaway+Villa with just Cavalry, if you were able to draw your deck.

I don't think so. You still would need an action each cycle to play the Cavalry.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1507 on: May 02, 2020, 03:37:29 am »
+2

Silly combo of today - Flag Bearer and changeling... you can buy the flag bearer and get the flag, and then get a changeling instead of the flag bearer so you don't have a stupid flag bearer in your deck.
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Carline

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1508 on: May 02, 2020, 10:21:29 pm »
+2

Possibly neat, but how is this potentially uesful?

I had already stop from posting unuseful cards interactions in this thread, but I'd like to point why I did some.

To me, the topic title is ambiguous, it can mean "post here the cards interactions that are at the same time neat and potentially useful" (the right interpretation as I know now), but it can also mean "post here cards interactions that are neat and cards interactions that are potentially useful".

As I'm not a native english speaker, I don't know if I am right about this ambiguity.

(It's for the same reason, not being a native english speaker, that I do a lot of editions in my posts. Often I see later that I misspelled something)
« Last Edit: May 03, 2020, 04:37:05 am by Carline »
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ipofanes

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1509 on: May 04, 2020, 08:52:19 am »
0

To let the blind lead you, here's another suggestion by a nonnative speaker: "and" instead of "or" would be taken as less ambiguous. (And "and/or" only exists in feeble minds.)

Of course, there's always the Semi-interesting moments thread full of examples where a neat combination proved to work once for a change.
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mad4math

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1510 on: May 05, 2020, 03:04:16 pm »
0

Kiln + Border Village

With a few cantrips/sources of nonterminal draw in hand, a Kiln and Border village in hand can empty both piles in one turn.
Play a Kiln
Play border village gaining border village and klin
Play a cantrip/other nonterminal draw to draw whichever of kiln and border village you didn't draw with the border village.
Repeat

You need to start with a border village or other source of +action so the first kiln isn't terminal, and you need to draw your deck.
You can run the loop once per cantrip in hand, or in expectation 1.5 times per lab in hand.
I just had a game where scrying pool was the nonterminal draw, kiln was the only gainer/+buys, and gained 6 of each in one turn.
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Fragasnap

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1511 on: May 12, 2020, 09:46:06 pm »
+2

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humcalc216

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1512 on: May 12, 2020, 10:35:19 pm »
+3

Livery + Way of the Butterfly

If you've played a few Liveries and are overdrawing your deck, you can play Horses using Way of the Butterfly, gaining 4-costs and more Horses. If those 4-costs give you extra Actions, repeat.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1513 on: May 14, 2020, 07:33:08 pm »
+2

pursue + patron is a great way to turn extra $2 into a coffers or four
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Carline

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1514 on: May 16, 2020, 04:06:12 pm »
+4

FESTIVAL / WAY OF THE CHAMELEON

I don’t know if someone pointed it before, but Festival is especially good with Way of the Chameleon.

With Chameleon, Festival can give non-terminal draw. Since you can choose between draw or payload at each play of Festival, you have all components of an engine in one card: +Actions, +Buy, +$ and +Cards.

I played some games with it and it’s really effective.

Of course many other cards become a lot better with Chameleon, but this particular case seems to me to be noteworthy.

(Edited to fix mispell)
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 07:49:56 pm by Carline »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1515 on: May 17, 2020, 12:08:33 am »
0

TIL:  Stonemason + any cost reducer = cwazy.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1516 on: May 17, 2020, 01:19:27 am »
+1

TIL:  Stonemason + any cost reducer = cwazy.

Did you learn that from the opening post in this thread?
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1517 on: May 17, 2020, 01:43:33 am »
0

TIL:  Stonemason + any cost reducer = cwazy.

Did you learn that from the opening post in this thread?
I figured it had probably been noted in this thread before, but it's been a long time since I read the first post...

mxdata

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1518 on: May 18, 2020, 01:46:16 am »
+1

Stumbled upon a useful combo tonight: Groundskeeper + Way of the Frog.  Since the part that gives you victory tokens is below the line, you can still get the tokens with a victory card buy, while putting it into your next hand to get a token again.  Of course, this is assuming you don't need the +1 card
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ipofanes

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1519 on: May 20, 2020, 10:09:37 am »
+1

Destrier + Dismantle

Trash Destrier for Gold and a fiver of your choice. Next Destrier is $4.
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AJD

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1520 on: May 27, 2020, 12:10:02 pm »
0

Necromancer/Way of the Horse is basically a $4 Lab.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1521 on: May 27, 2020, 12:40:39 pm »
0

Stumbled upon a useful combo tonight: Groundskeeper + Way of the Frog.  Since the part that gives you victory tokens is below the line, you can still get the tokens with a victory card buy, while putting it into your next hand to get a token again.  Of course, this is assuming you don't need the +1 card

Really this is just most Ways combined with any below-the-line effects.
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snappyboi

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1522 on: May 27, 2020, 06:41:06 pm »
+2

Camel Train + Transport lets you topdeck any action on the board. I pulled this off turn 3 on a familiar board and the results were very nasty...
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mandioca15

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1523 on: May 29, 2020, 03:02:22 pm »
0

Innovation + Island: buy an Island, immediately play it and set it aside along with another Victory card (ideally). Bingo, you've just gained 2VP and improved your deck.

Innovation + Inventor: play Inventor, gain an Inventor and immediately play it. Now everything costs $2 less. I had a game where Lackeys was also in the Kingdom, so I was able to stock up on Villagers by using the second Inventor gain on Lackeys.

Innovation in general is nice.
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Carline

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1524 on: May 29, 2020, 04:47:01 pm »
+2

Research / Fortress

Of course Fortress is good with any TFB, but this interaction makes Research shines.

I played a game where I bought 3 Researches and 3 Fortress and I was starting every turn with 9 or 13 cards in hand. This made me win against a player so much better than me.
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mxdata

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1525 on: June 06, 2020, 02:51:16 am »
+7

I just had a game tonight where I had two Market Squares and a Watchtower in hand when my opponent played Marauder.  I used Watchtower to trash the Ruins, then reacted with the Market Squares to gain 2 Golds, and then revealed the same Watchtower to topdeck the Golds!  Then on my turn, I played Watchtower to draw those Golds
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Vengil

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1526 on: June 06, 2020, 06:38:29 am »
+2

Research / Fortress

Of course Fortress is good with any TFB, but this interaction makes Research shines.

I played a game where I bought 3 Researches and 3 Fortress and I was starting every turn with 9 or 13 cards in hand. This made me win against a player so much better than me.

This week I played 3 "Research" + a lot of "Rats".
It was very strong.
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mxdata

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1527 on: June 07, 2020, 06:45:20 pm »
+2

Innovation + Way of the Worm lets you Exile an Estate from the Supply every time you buy an Action card
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jomini

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1528 on: July 23, 2020, 03:31:47 pm »
+8

The Bank Gamble

Draw your deck. Have 9 treasures in play, $9 to spend, and as many +buys as you can manage. Buy a Bank. Gamble. Play the Bank. It generates $10 and Gamble gives a buy. Repeat until the stack is gone.

Starting with a full Bank pile this will generate $55 and leave you with $64 which is enough to pile out the provinces if you can generate enough +buys. Even if not, you can crush a pile for no cash cost or just quickly and dramatically increase you cash generating potential or get high value feedstock for scaling TfB.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 09:09:45 pm by jomini »
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AJD

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1529 on: July 25, 2020, 03:27:14 am »
+8

Guardian is surprisingly not good against Coven.

I just lost a game where I won the curse split 8–1. I was protecting myself from my opponent's Covens with Guardians, while she was basically unprotected and just taking the curses. But because of my Guardians, the Curse pile depleted really slowly, so my opponent's curses never actually made it into her deck at all. So the upshot was, she lost some points but not in a way that impacted her deck efficiency, while I had a bunch of duration-coppers slowing my deck down, and I lost the Provinces 2–6.
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jomini

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1530 on: July 27, 2020, 03:05:42 pm »
+3

Guardian is surprisingly not good against Coven.

I just lost a game where I won the curse split 8–1. I was protecting myself from my opponent's Covens with Guardians, while she was basically unprotected and just taking the curses. But because of my Guardians, the Curse pile depleted really slowly, so my opponent's curses never actually made it into her deck at all. So the upshot was, she lost some points but not in a way that impacted her deck efficiency, while I had a bunch of duration-coppers slowing my deck down, and I lost the Provinces 2–6.

Your experience is not about Guardian being weak, it actually is quite strong, you are more describing the weakness of Coven, and particularly with how I presume you played it.

For the price of $4, a single draw slot, and two gains you can protect your deck the entire game. Guardian is even better because you can wait through a few curses before buying them or have a few curses slip through before you trash down (e.g. using Spice merchant) without bloating your deck. You need never worry about drawing them dead (like Lighthouse) nor having them out of hand (like Moat). With very few exceptions (e.g. a Lib deck), you just plan on dumping two Guardians into your deck and maybe picking up a third or fourth late game to prevent ten bloat cards from being dumped into the deck.

The problem is Coven. Losing 10 curses means you just need to win the Prov split 5:3, which should not be hard to do when your opponent has kindly bought a couple of $5 silvers. Absent trashing and buying two Covens on T3&4 you are looking at something like T 14-T15 to get the curses shuffled into the deck. Absent something else, you have lost the provinces badly before then.

Where Coven works is where you can play two per turn or more (making it around T10 - 12 to shuffle in the curses) per turn. Coven also works well when the game will last longer (e.g. Colonies, other attacks, alt-VP). As is, slowing down the cursing game just a tiny bit (e.g. in this case you could not draw deck with the Guardians), normally lets you coast to an easy victory. In many ways it is like Mountain Pass, losing a couple turns to paying down debt or to playing $5 silvers is just not worth it for <12 VP.
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AJD

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1531 on: July 27, 2020, 08:07:23 pm »
0

Meaning I should have bought Guardians, but not Covens, but rather stronger $5s? That's plausible—but I think there's no way I would have been able to get enough Guardians to protect myself "for the price of $4, a single draw slot, and two gains"—I don't remember what the kingdom was like in this game, but there was definitely not enough +card available for two Guardians to provide any reliable protection.
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jomini

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1532 on: July 27, 2020, 09:23:45 pm »
0

You typically would not need full protection then. How many Covens was your opponent averaging per turn? 1? 1.5? Blocking say every third or fourth turn will stretch out how long it takes for you to get all 10 in your draw deck.

Obviously, there are some boards where it is hard to get enough VP before your deck chokes on 10 curses and that can mean playing Coven is the best option. But in general, relatively few Dominion games take longer than 15 turns. And it is a pretty rare board that lets you play more than one Coven per turn on average but not also block them all with just two or three Guardians.

I have certainly won any number of games by getting a victory condition (empty provinces, 3-piles, >1/2 of VP) before the shuffle after the 11th play of Coven. Which I suppose is another thing to consider, if your deck is getting kinda sloggy (e.g lots of treasure), after the 11th play you may well have 4 or 5 more turns before your expected cash tanks.

A non-mirror Coven bout turns the game into a race. But that is often a winnable race, and very much so with something like Guardian where you can buy whole shuffles off a single well-timed buy (e.g. they have no draw deck and 2 Covens in hand, you buy a $6 Guardian, and they need a full extra shuffle for just that block).
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Cuzz

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1533 on: July 30, 2020, 04:03:50 pm »
+2

IGG + Guildhall

Maybe everyone knows this already but I just got wrecked by IGG/Guildhall. In a normal IGG rush you drain IGG, Curse and usually Duchy. Pretty rare that it's the best strategy these days. With Guildhall those Duchies are Provinces instead, and it's, uh, quite good I think.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2020, 01:56:18 pm by Cuzz »
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4est

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1534 on: July 30, 2020, 08:03:05 pm »
+2

Sheepdog + Treasure Trove

If you draw your deck and have a Sheepdog still in hand, you can use it to immediately draw and play the Copper and Gold gains from Treasure Trove. Nothing special but it sure is cute.
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mxdata

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1535 on: August 04, 2020, 02:10:40 am »
+4

Just had a game with Innovation, Rogue, and Pillage.  So, after a Pillage had been trashed, then Rogue would gain it from the trash, Innovation would allow it to be played immediately for the gain of two spoils and the targeted discard, then it would return immediately to the trash, so that, in effect, Rogue could be played like a Pillage minus the self-trashing, plus an extra $2.  That was a lot of fun
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Cuzz

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1536 on: August 04, 2020, 10:55:00 am »
+6

Sceptor - Way of the Turtle

Replay any action in play at beginning of next turn.
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mxdata

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1537 on: August 18, 2020, 12:32:08 am »
+1

I'm certain the interaction between Bank and Capitalism has been mentioned before, but I just really enjoy how thematically appropriate it is
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mxdata

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1538 on: August 21, 2020, 11:20:41 pm »
+3

In a bot game I just played, Highway and Way of the Mouse-Scheme was on the board

Since Highway's cost-reduction is a while-in-play effect, and Scheme's topdecking is not a below-the-line effect, I was able to simply buy up a few Highways and then play them as Mouse each time, for cheap Provinces.  The only thing preventing that from being an absolute blowout was that there was not a single +buy card.  Still, once I had four Highways, I simply picked up a $4 Province each turn after that
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William Howard Taft

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1539 on: August 28, 2020, 04:53:15 pm »
+5

Diplomat/Way of the Chameleon

Get the village effect with a hand of 5.
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Jonatan Djurachkovitch

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1540 on: September 01, 2020, 07:03:58 am »
+1

Way of the Chameleon/Coven
Play Labs with the Coven attack.
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jomini

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1541 on: September 05, 2020, 11:43:50 pm »
+1

Zombie Horses

Just another Way of the Horse Combo, but I like the thematic nature of it.

Like the rest of things that play cards without actually putting them "in play" Necromancer is great for generating a Lab effect with Way of the Horse (e.g. similar to the Bom, Overlord, and Capt). Any non-duration actions in the trash, including the starting zombies, turns a Necromancer in a $4 lab. If you end up with too many Necromancers you can Zapprentince or Zmason one to increase the number of "Labs" you can play though normally I would suggest doing that to other, cheaper actions (e.g. Ruins are worth it to buy, Zapprentice, and then turn it into a 4th or whatever Zombie Destrier).

I have not tried it yet, but I presume that you can also use Necromantic Butterflies to gain $4s (and other values if you seed the trash).
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dz

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1542 on: September 06, 2020, 01:35:19 am »
0

I have not tried it yet, but I presume that you can also use Necromantic Butterflies to gain $4s (and other values if you seed the trash).

Butterfly doesn't work. Cards in the trash can't be returned to a pile, and so you gain nothing.
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LordBaphomet

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1543 on: September 07, 2020, 05:20:25 pm »
0

Pillage/Counterfeit

You are gonna lose those spoils anyways, so why not double them?
Plus the spoils return before they can be trashed.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1544 on: September 07, 2020, 08:08:26 pm »
+2

I have not tried it yet, but I presume that you can also use Necromantic Butterflies to gain $4s (and other values if you seed the trash).

Butterfly doesn't work. Cards in the trash can't be returned to a pile, and so you gain nothing.

This sounds like maybe the wrong explanation for the right conclusion... cards in the trash can be returned a pile, in a general sense at least. Zombies couldn’t because they have no pile, but a normal card in the trash has a pile, so if an effect had you return one; it could.

In the case of Necromancer, because the card was played “leaving it there”, the “return this” effect loses track, because it expects the card to be in play but it isn’t. So it fails to return it to its pile; not specifically because it’s in the trash but because it’s not in play where the effect expects it to be.

Maybe that all is what you meant anyway; but wanted to clarify.
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jomini

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1545 on: September 09, 2020, 10:47:06 am »
0

Pillage/Counterfeit

You are gonna lose those spoils anyways, so why not double them?
Plus the spoils return before they can be trashed.
I actually find Pillage to be one of the worst Spoils targets for Counterfeits. If you play the combo every turn, you generate a whopping $4 using up an action, a buy and four draw slots. That is literally less than could get from just carrying 3 coppers and trashing/replacing 1 each turn. You could get a second Cfeit and then try to stack 5 draw into your engine, but that comes at the explicit cost of forgoing a Pillage buy/play.

Now Pillage comes with an attack that is very nice, but that attack makes it exceedingly unreliable to line up Cfeit with Spoils. First if I hit your Pillage, you may have no Spoils in deck for the shuffle afterwards. Second I can also disrupt the combo by hitting your Cfeit and forcing you to play your Spoils once. Regardless, Pillage is strongest against engines that have few clutch components where discards hurt the most (e.g. Golem, Kc); Cfeit, in contrast, thins and tends to help you buy double components (e.g. village & Smithy) where you will have a lot of redundant turns.

Bandit camp, for instance, needs only a net of 2 cards of draw to double play Spoils. That is a far stronger combo with Cfeit. Frankly, I would generally prefer something like Capital/Cfeit over Pillage/Cfeit for payload (the former generates $7 and +2 buys on net). Even with Marauder, you still have a nice shot for thinning your deck down for an engine, and eventually the ability to generate $7 in perpetuity at the price of 1 action and 3 draw slots.

Cfeit is, in general, a very good card and Pillage is situational but not too bad. It is nice to get them and line things up, but it seems like a very poor target as primary payload for an engine and not terrible reliable in a slog (particularly if you can do something else that is less finicky about lining things up, maybe like Horse traders/Duke or B-crat/alt-green).

It might be something nice to get, but I suspect than half of boards there will be a stronger combo there.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1546 on: September 29, 2020, 01:34:41 am »
+1

Black Cat/Way of the Frog.

Top deck the black cats.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1547 on: September 30, 2020, 11:24:58 pm »
+1

Black Cat/Way of the Frog.

Top deck the black cats.

They don't give out Curses unless you play them as themselves. You can set them up to be in your hand for the next turn but your hand size will take a hit until you activate them.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1548 on: October 01, 2020, 12:36:12 am »
0

Black Cat/Way of the Frog.

Top deck the black cats.

They don't give out Curses unless you play them as themselves. You can set them up to be in your hand for the next turn but your hand size will take a hit until you activate them.

If you have a strong enough engine, that doesn't hurt too bad, as long as you're only top-decking one, or maybe two, Black Cats
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1549 on: October 01, 2020, 02:57:31 pm »
+2

Black Cat/Way of the Frog.

Top deck the black cats.

They don't give out Curses unless you play them as themselves. You can set them up to be in your hand for the next turn but your hand size will take a hit until you activate them.

Depends on the engine. If my village is Recruiter (say I am running Cats/Recruiter/Explorer) I really should be putting any extra Cats back even it costs a Villager most of the time. Similarly, having a +action token on them makes it even better as they can give you a village effect on the Frog turn. Or you might have ways to start with bonus actions (e.g. Prince, Mastermind). Then of course you have the million and one ways to creating a reliable draw deck (e.g. Scheme, Count, Travelling fair) that utterly does not care about 3 of your 5 starting cards.

The real clutch, though, is top decking them near game end. I have dropped 5 on deck top because my opponent could score no more than 6 VP a turn and that was not enough to win (you can actually end up in a degenerate state for Frogging Cats like this with a stalemated game).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1550 on: October 08, 2020, 09:45:34 pm »
+2

probably known but rats / way of the horse is pretty fun
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1551 on: October 09, 2020, 03:04:51 pm »
+2

probably known but rats / way of the horse is pretty fun

I prefer it with Magpie. In a no treasure deck, it makes every Magpie into +1.5 cards for the rest of the game.

For Rats I think the bigger combo is with Butterfly. You likely are not going to keep mass gaining/returning Rats, but being able to turn a copper into a $5 once a shuffle is pretty huge.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1552 on: October 12, 2020, 04:35:23 am »
+3

Urchin with Way Of The Mouse and a cheap attack is an instant Mercenary swap.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1553 on: October 13, 2020, 02:25:02 pm »
+3

Fisherman/Topdecking

When you buy a Fisherman with the reduced cost you can rarely buy another one, because it ends up in your discard pile. If you topdeck it with Royal Seal or Watchtower, or especially Travelling Fair its cost stays at $2. One buy and $6 and an empty discard pile can set you up with two Fishermen next turn!
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William Howard Taft

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1554 on: October 17, 2020, 11:31:47 am »
0

Just had a fun set with Shelters where Acting Troupe was the Way of the Mouse. Unlimited Villagers for all!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1555 on: October 17, 2020, 01:24:00 pm »
+1

Never have I wanted more to be the player who gets the Diadem!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1556 on: October 19, 2020, 04:35:32 am »
+1

Leprechaun/Toil
Leprechaun looks at all cards, not just action cards, in play. Especially early in the game it is remarkably easy to make him grant a Wish if you can play any number treasures in addition to actions. Especially since, unlike Magic Lamp, he doesn't care about duplicates.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1557 on: October 21, 2020, 10:49:39 pm »
+2

Playing goatherd after your opponent buys a mint = big draw.  Just had a game where my opponent bought a mint with five coppers in play.  That made my goatherd a non-terminal +5 cards!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1558 on: October 23, 2020, 09:16:11 am »
+2

Not sure if this has been posted before, but Alchemist + Star Chart means that with a thin enough deck you can basically always find your potion.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1559 on: October 24, 2020, 04:57:47 pm »
0

Leprechaun/Toil
Leprechaun looks at all cards, not just action cards, in play. Especially early in the game it is remarkably easy to make him grant a Wish if you can play any number treasures in addition to actions. Especially since, unlike Magic Lamp, he doesn't care about duplicates.

that's pretty sweet
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1560 on: October 24, 2020, 05:03:19 pm »
0

Not sure if it's been said before but Hermit and Innovation is bonkers.  Play hermit, gain a hermit play that hermit again, gain another hermit for later.  Trash 2 estates and curses and now you get 2 madmen with only giving up buying power for one turn, while actually getting a hermit out if it to rinse and repeat later if the cards fall that way.  Even better if events/projects available. Just had a game where i got all provies in 2 turns way early, though Governor helped a lot too by pulling in 3, 6 or 9 cards before I played the madman card.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 05:04:39 pm by Honkeyfresh »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1561 on: October 28, 2020, 12:23:14 am »
+4

Just had a game with both Mint and Way of the Butterfly.  I had a 5/2 opening, so on my $5 turn, I bought Mint, trashing my 5 Coppers.  On turn 3, I had Mint in hand, I played it as Way of the Butterfly, and gained a Gold.  So, in effect, I turned 5 Coppers into 1 Gold
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1562 on: October 30, 2020, 01:37:17 am »
0

Temple + Innovation is a weird interaction.  If you choose to Innovate first, then you gain the 1 VP from playing Temple and put 1 VP on the pile, then gain the VP tokens on the Temple pile - thus 2 VP plus whatever was on the pile before you bought the Temple
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1563 on: November 01, 2020, 12:30:35 am »
0

I just had a game with Lost Arts, Seaway, Quarry, and Embassy.  I put the +action token on Embassy with Lost Arts, and using Quarry, I was able to use Seaway to put the +buy token on Embassy.  That made Embassy absurdly powerful
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1564 on: November 06, 2020, 06:14:52 am »
+2

BOUNTY HUNTER / CASTLES

With Bounty Hunter you can start greening early by buying Castles, exile the Castles and gain for each exiled Castle, as each one has a different name.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 03:46:06 pm by Carline »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1565 on: November 06, 2020, 08:46:19 am »
+2

Had a similar match yesterday with Displace instead of Bounty Hunter. Works quite well, though you lose the momentum of Opulent Castle.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1566 on: November 09, 2020, 05:55:13 am »
+2

There are 220 matches for the word "count" in this thread, but not a single Count interaction. Time to change that!

Count/Crossroads or Count/Shepherd

Count is amazing for those strategies where you build your drawing engine from green cards:
- efficiently trash away your starting Coppers
- gain Duchies to fuel your engine and maintain a lead
- kickstart your next turn by putting a Crossroads/Shepherd on top of your deck!
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jomini

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1567 on: November 13, 2020, 09:04:43 pm »
0

There are 220 matches for the word "count" in this thread, but not a single Count interaction. Time to change that!

Count/Crossroads or Count/Shepherd

Count is amazing for those strategies where you build your drawing engine from green cards:
- efficiently trash away your starting Coppers
- gain Duchies to fuel your engine and maintain a lead
- kickstart your next turn by putting a Crossroads/Shepherd on top of your deck!

Count is actually not that great at trashing away your starting coppers. An average hand is CCEXCount where X is one of your openers or your other T3/4 buy. Assuming you want to keep both E and X that means that Count kills 2 coppers per play as a terminal. Which is on par with all the other 2 copper trashers ... but is a terminal $5. Worse, you will quickly have fewer turns where you can safely trash 2 coppers and eventually you will have several coppers that Count simply cannot eliminate. When you have other copper trashing you normally want it for a Green/Count engine.

Don't get me wrong, Count is a trasher of coppers, but when you actively want the estates his trashing is even slower than normal. It is something like four shuffles to get down to 2 coppers which is about what you can manage with Moneylender.

That being said, even inefficiently trashing coppers is enough to enable things like Shepherd or Xroads, particularly as Count can smooth out early cash flow, top deck whiffs, and then gain duchies.

For Count combos I have always loved Tomb. Pretty much any engine setup can turn Count into an unbounded golden engine with Tomb. Count/Beggar/Village/Tomb? Well that's 12 VP/turn. Lost arts/Count/Silk Merchant? Not too hard to hit 7 VP/turn. Even something simple like Tr/Count can churn 3VP/turn or more and still let you buy cards.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1568 on: November 15, 2020, 10:29:13 am »
+1

Really nice interaction between peasant/page lines and way of the Mouse when the Moused card is a cantrip (in my game it was scheme). Buy as many pages or peasants as you want.  You will never have a problem say getting stuck with 3 silver hunters/warriors/soldiers in same hand.  Play the page/peasant as mouse and your still get to swap the card at the end of the turn.  So you get like twice as fast deck cycling to get to the champion/Teacher etc.  It was pretty fun with scheme top decking 4 warriors and repeatedly tossing my opponents cards so that he had to wait another shuffle to even have a shot of keeping em.
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Doom_Shark

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1569 on: November 15, 2020, 12:28:52 pm »
+1

Really nice interaction between peasant/page lines and way of the Mouse when the Moused card is a cantrip (in my game it was scheme). Buy as many pages or peasants as you want.  You will never have a problem say getting stuck with 3 silver hunters/warriors/soldiers in same hand.  Play the page/peasant as mouse and your still get to swap the card at the end of the turn.  So you get like twice as fast deck cycling to get to the champion/Teacher etc.  It was pretty fun with scheme top decking 4 warriors and repeatedly tossing my opponents cards so that he had to wait another shuffle to even have a shot of keeping em.

Note this also works with Way of the Pig
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1570 on: November 15, 2020, 01:23:23 pm »
0

Really nice interaction between peasant/page lines and way of the Mouse when the Moused card is a cantrip (in my game it was scheme). Buy as many pages or peasants as you want.  You will never have a problem say getting stuck with 3 silver hunters/warriors/soldiers in same hand.  Play the page/peasant as mouse and your still get to swap the card at the end of the turn.  So you get like twice as fast deck cycling to get to the champion/Teacher etc.  It was pretty fun with scheme top decking 4 warriors and repeatedly tossing my opponents cards so that he had to wait another shuffle to even have a shot of keeping em.

Note this also works with Way of the Pig

Ox and Mule also help, though not as much since they don't have draw.  But they do at least give you a way to make your Travellers non-terminal
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1571 on: November 16, 2020, 06:17:38 am »
+2

Mule is a poor man's Vault for action cards, brilliant with cards that care about your hand (Menagerie, Diplomat, Shanty Town) or are draw-to-x.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1572 on: November 18, 2020, 01:19:55 am »
0

Just played a game with Sheepdog and way of the seal.  If u had a sheepdog in your hand you could buy anything, react with sheepdog/seal and then top deck whatever it was that you bought, plus u get one coin more buying power and top-decking for anything else bought. Here it was nice to top-deck covens to aid in the curse slam. A bit of an edge case but I there are a few other cards that activate too like falconer. Falconer worked in an interesting way, since if you are playing a falconer from your own buy usually it only gives effect by adding to your deck (absent villa/cavalry edge cases) but here u get the option of a 4 cost or less card in future, or top-deck whatever it is you bought to engage falconer. Not exactly sure why but I tried this with trader and market square but in those cases you can't play the way of the seal, only get the silver or gold etc, and it doesn't top-deck.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 01:23:59 am by Honkeyfresh »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1573 on: November 18, 2020, 07:19:24 am »
0

Just played a game with Sheepdog and way of the seal.  If u had a sheepdog in your hand you could buy anything, react with sheepdog/seal and then top deck whatever it was that you bought, plus u get one coin more buying power and top-decking for anything else bought. Here it was nice to top-deck covens to aid in the curse slam. A bit of an edge case but I there are a few other cards that activate too like falconer. Falconer worked in an interesting way, since if you are playing a falconer from your own buy usually it only gives effect by adding to your deck (absent villa/cavalry edge cases) but here u get the option of a 4 cost or less card in future, or top-deck whatever it is you bought to engage falconer. Not exactly sure why but I tried this with trader and market square but in those cases you can't play the way of the seal, only get the silver or gold etc, and it doesn't top-deck.
trader changed over to "exchange" rather than "trash and gain" so keyword wise, you're exchanging the card you're reacting to, via trader, for a silver.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 03:15:50 pm by spineflu »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1574 on: November 18, 2020, 01:52:30 pm »
+1

Just played a game with Sheepdog and way of the seal.  If u had a sheepdog in your hand you could buy anything, react with sheepdog/seal and then top deck whatever it was that you bought, plus u get one coin more buying power and top-decking for anything else bought. Here it was nice to top-deck covens to aid in the curse slam. A bit of an edge case but I there are a few other cards that activate too like falconer. Falconer worked in an interesting way, since if you are playing a falconer from your own buy usually it only gives effect by adding to your deck (absent villa/cavalry edge cases) but here u get the option of a 4 cost or less card in future, or top-deck whatever it is you bought to engage falconer. Not exactly sure why but I tried this with trader and market square but in those cases you can't play the way of the seal, only get the silver or gold etc, and it doesn't top-deck.
trader changed over to "exchange" rather than "trash and gain" so keyword wise, you're exchanging the card you're reacting to with trader for a silver.

Yeah but every reaction has some words on the card.  Why when u play some of them do you get to play a way instead and some not?  Isn't the point of using the way that it largely ignores the words on the card?

ETA I think I figured it out. Some of the cards get "played" from your hand (sheepdog, falconer) and some of them market square/trader are just saying "reveal this from your hand to produce X result" so since it can't be "played", you can't play it as a way. My guess is you could play it this way too on a black cat if an opponent gains a Victory card on your turn since it says you can then play it.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 01:57:24 pm by Honkeyfresh »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1575 on: November 26, 2020, 01:24:29 pm »
+3

Livery/Academy

With a cube on Academy playing Livery is more or less like playing 3 Peddlers, if you gain a card costing $4 or more. With +buys and multiple Liverys you are quite soon at a point, where you never need to worry about Actions again and wish that the Horse pile would be bigger.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2020, 06:32:37 pm by Rhodos »
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mxdata

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1576 on: November 26, 2020, 09:37:18 pm »
+2

Livery/Academy

With a cube on Academy playing Livery is more or less like playing 3 Peddlers, if you gain a card costing $4 or more. With +buys and multiple Liverys you are quite soon at a point, where you never need to worry about Actions again and wish that the Horse pile would be bigger.

Paddock has a similar effect with Academy.  Less money ($2 as opposed to $3), but more villagers and horses
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1577 on: November 30, 2020, 09:45:24 pm »
+1

Paddock + Innovation essentially turns the first Paddock you play (assuming no other gainers played before it) into +$2 +2 Cards +1 [at least] Action Gain 1 Horse
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1578 on: December 04, 2020, 02:31:48 pm »
0

Livery/Academy

With a cube on Academy playing Livery is more or less like playing 3 Peddlers, if you gain a card costing $4 or more. With +buys and multiple Liverys you are quite soon at a point, where you never need to worry about Actions again and wish that the Horse pile would be bigger.

Paddock has a similar effect with Academy.  Less money ($2 as opposed to $3), but more villagers and horses

once you get academy its almost hard to ever run out of actions.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1579 on: December 05, 2020, 02:55:05 pm »
0

Livery/Academy

With a cube on Academy playing Livery is more or less like playing 3 Peddlers, if you gain a card costing $4 or more. With +buys and multiple Liverys you are quite soon at a point, where you never need to worry about Actions again and wish that the Horse pile would be bigger.

Paddock has a similar effect with Academy.  Less money ($2 as opposed to $3), but more villagers and horses

once you get academy its almost hard to ever run out of actions.

Depends on the game, really.  If there's a lot of non-terminal actions, you're right.  But games where most or all actions are terminal, you can still easily run out of actions even with Academy
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1580 on: February 18, 2021, 10:44:55 am »
+2

played a 4p game with IGG and Trader. Didn't really think about how Trader can actually kinda block the attack of IGG and skipped it. Took the bulk of the 30-deep curse pile.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1581 on: February 18, 2021, 12:19:32 pm »
+3

played a 4p game with IGG and Trader. Didn't really think about how Trader can actually kinda block the attack of IGG and skipped it. Took the bulk of the 30-deep curse pile.
Yup. Trader has three good functions in IGG games:
1) Blocking the Curses before they come in
2) Trashing the Curses if they do make it into your deck
3) Turning your IGGs into five Silvers.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1582 on: February 20, 2021, 04:07:01 pm »
+3

Recently played a game with mastermind supplies.  Having 2 MM's and 2 supplies pretty much guarantees you draw your deck even when it gets bloated with green, and have A MM on deck for the next round.  Somehow the guy I was playing missed the boat and bought neither cards (until a late supplies when it was way too late) and I ended up getting all 8 provinces with some banks/barges  sprinkled in the deck.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 04:13:26 pm by Honkeyfresh »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1583 on: February 22, 2021, 12:46:53 am »
0

played a 4p game with IGG and Trader. Didn't really think about how Trader can actually kinda block the attack of IGG and skipped it. Took the bulk of the 30-deep curse pile.
Yup. Trader has three good functions in IGG games:
1) Blocking the Curses before they come in
2) Trashing the Curses if they do make it into your deck
3) Turning your IGGs into five Silvers.
4) Turning coppers into Silvers if you have <$3
5) Piling out the silvers to end game (e.g. in a 3 player game with 40 silvers you can expect Silvers to get significantly depleted with just 2 or 3 Traders each).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1584 on: March 19, 2021, 01:48:49 am »
0

Border Guard as Young Witch's Bane: Whoever has the Horn has effective immunity to Young Witch, since they're guaranteed to have Border Guard in their hand (well, in most cases - attacks like Minion or Plunder played before Young Witch could negate that)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1585 on: March 19, 2021, 03:53:18 am »
0

played a 4p game with IGG and Trader. Didn't really think about how Trader can actually kinda block the attack of IGG and skipped it. Took the bulk of the 30-deep curse pile.
Yup. Trader has three good functions in IGG games:
1) Blocking the Curses before they come in
2) Trashing the Curses if they do make it into your deck
3) Turning your IGGs into five Silvers.
4) Turning coppers into Silvers if you have <$3
5) Piling out the silvers to end game (e.g. in a 3 player game with 40 silvers you can expect Silvers to get significantly depleted with just 2 or 3 Traders each).
6) Gaining a Silver instead of a Copper when playing IGG, if you have it in hand when you play it (most of the time you'd prefer to use Trader's trashing, so this is mostly only useful if you didn't have enough Actions to play it)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1586 on: May 22, 2021, 08:46:22 am »
+1

I've not seen Horse+Changeling mentioned yet. It feels like the Changeling pile would empty pretty quickly...
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1587 on: May 26, 2021, 08:40:11 pm »
0

two ones that i'm adding from this thread http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20764.new#new

It just occurred to me that Village Green makes Tactician potentially actually Throneable.  If you Throne a Tactician with a Village Green in hand, and use the VG's reaction for this turn, then you have a card in hand to discard for the second play of Tactician, and you'd start your next turn with +10 cards +2 Actions +2 Buys!  You could potentially even KC it, although it would only work if the card drawn by VG was another VG.  But if you could pull that off, then you'd have +15 Cards +3 Actions +3 Buys for your next turn

Quote
This one's probably more well known but Way of The Mole + VG works for +6 cards, just Mole anything and then Mole the first VG (but not any other) you discard
how does this get you six cards?  i am confused.  Wouldn't you just get +1 additional card if you discarded a moled vg?

You discard your entire hand.  That includes a VG.  You play the VG for way of the Mole, get +3 cards.  Then, you get the +3 cards for the first Mole

Oh, interesting, I didn't realize this would work like that, but I just tested it online and it does. Am I right that the sequence goes like this:

1. Play something as Way of the Mole.
2. +1 Action, Discard your hand.
3. Village Green gets discarded and gets played before the "+3 cards" of the previous Mole.
4. Choose to play Village Green as Way of the Mole.
5. +1 Action, Discard your hand (0 cards). +3 cards.
6. Draw the +3 cards from the remainder of the Way of the Mole in step 2. You now have 6 cards.

Exactly.  If a reaction is triggered partway through resolving a card, then you resolve the reaction before continuing on with the rest of the card.  So, in this case, any reactions to being discarded come before the +3 Cards.  The same would apply if you discarded a Tunnel, which could be relevant if the +3 Cards caused you to reshuffle
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1588 on: May 29, 2021, 10:53:44 pm »
0

Capitalism makes Crypt a lot more flexible.  And it also works really weird with Duration cards that Capitalism turns into Treasures.  Since Crypt doesn't specify "that you would discard this turn" (obviously, since before Renaissance that would've been redundant), you can set aside a Duration card that you played that same turn, and still get the Duration effect on the next turn.  You can even play that card a second time on the same turn that you get the Duration effect!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1589 on: June 10, 2021, 12:50:59 pm »
0

Really nice interaction between peasant/page lines and way of the Mouse when the Moused card is a cantrip (in my game it was scheme). Buy as many pages or peasants as you want.  You will never have a problem say getting stuck with 3 silver hunters/warriors/soldiers in same hand.  Play the page/peasant as mouse and your still get to swap the card at the end of the turn.  So you get like twice as fast deck cycling to get to the champion/Teacher etc.  It was pretty fun with scheme top decking 4 warriors and repeatedly tossing my opponents cards so that he had to wait another shuffle to even have a shot of keeping em.

Note this also works with Way of the Pig

Ox and Mule also help, though not as much since they don't have draw.  But they do at least give you a way to make your Travellers non-terminal

I just played a rather ridonkulous game  with Way of the Frog and Peasant line.  For the first half of the game I essentially bought as many peasants as i could without regard to the availability of + actions.  Then just frog every terminal peasant/soldier/teacher  as necessary.  Since they were in play they get exchanged even though you never actually play them in the traditional sense. Also allowed me to buy wharves with impunity as I didn't fear the collision of peasant and wharf-- like here where i was able to open 5/2 wharf.peasant, and then use peasant and wharf in same hand to flip peasant and cycle my deck faster. Creates just a massive onrush peasant line.  Got to teacher like 3x as fast as my opponent and then had disciples galore to just rape the bandit camps/wharves.  Really bonkers interaction here. :P One added bonus is that usually when you make a really neat move it is  patently  obvious, and if the other person can do it too it you they just copy it.  People don't always pay attention to what other players are swapping on travelers, and many just have the "auto swap travelers" clicked. I don't think my opponent even noticed I was doing it, as I checked the log and he only ever once top decked a traveler so he probably didn't even notice that it happened to him too.

« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 03:52:23 pm by Honkeyfresh »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1590 on: June 21, 2021, 10:47:50 am »
+2

Fortress in a Kingdom with both Travelling Fair and Advance... 8)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1591 on: June 25, 2021, 10:41:48 am »
0

Innovation and anything is pretty amazing.  One of my #1 MUST buy events absent rare board configurations.  One super ridonkulous combo I just crushed with was Tactician.  In my game it was added by Kilns, supplies and grandmarkets, but it basically allows you to double tactician on every hand regardless of needing to draw a 2nd one, and with the incredibly overpowerful bonus of being able to spend all the coins/gold in your hand to aid in your 2x tactican quest, because after playing all your coins (or all but one if you have no unused action cards/VP cards to leave for the innovated tac to discard) you then discard the tactician, which puts a '2x tac engine on fucking nitrous oxide.. after youve already built up a ton of banked coins.  I was able to have 2 turns where i 2x provinced and then hit a tactician after that. Closed the game on a Triple province.  I was able to get all 8 provinces in that one, and it was fairly quick too.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1592 on: June 25, 2021, 03:37:44 pm »
0

Just played a game with Sanctuary, Supplies, Groom, Wayfarer, and the event Triumph. My opponent completely ignored Triumph, letting me rack up the points.  With all the draw from Wayfarer and the Horses, the Exiling from Sanctuary, and gaining a bunch of Horses each turn, Triumph was really valuable.  Most turns I was able to draw my deck (Sanctuary coming in really handy there), and having 5 Supplies, those alone were giving me 5 gained cards each turn, plus the Silver gaining from Wayfarer.  By the time my opponent resigned, on turn 14, I had emptied the Estates pile, having bought Triumph 7 times (my opponent bought an Estate on one turn) and had 62 VP tokens for a total of 72 VP, while my opponent only had a total of 22 points, consisting of 4 Estates and 3 Provinces.  That means I ended up with almost as many points as if I'd bought a Colony on each of those 7 buys, and for only 5 debt each time!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1593 on: June 28, 2021, 01:38:33 am »
0

Citadel + Hireling = +2 Cards every turn.  Of course, since Hireling is terminal, unless you have villagers, you can't do much on the turn you play the Hireling, but the even-stronger draw can compensate
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1594 on: June 28, 2021, 06:39:12 am »
+2

Tracker + Way of the Pig, greater than the sum of its parts
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1595 on: July 05, 2021, 12:33:48 am »
+2

Ways are phenomenal for most cards with below the line in-play text.

Bridge troll becomes highly flexible as an optional highway. Groundskeeper can become both payload and draw for an Owl or Mole drawing deck. Goons becomes much more tolerant of low village setups as Pig/Mole/Mule/Ox and works quite well as Owl for the self-counter and VP boost. Haggler can lead to idiotic numbers of gains if you swap cash for being non-terminal.

Even way of the Frog can be killer (e.g. spiking more VP off something like Necropolis/Goons).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1596 on: July 15, 2021, 12:30:08 am »
+1

Livery + Academy + multiple buys

I had an irl game recently where this combo came up. I was the only one who noticed the Livery + Academy combo, and I was producing Villagers so fast, I only had one Village in my entire deck, and the rest of my Action cards were terminal, AND I was drawing my deck every turn, and I was STILL getting Villagers faster than I was spending them.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1597 on: July 16, 2021, 11:52:44 pm »
0

Livery + Academy + multiple buys

I had an irl game recently where this combo came up. I was the only one who noticed the Livery + Academy combo, and I was producing Villagers so fast, I only had one Village in my entire deck, and the rest of my Action cards were terminal, AND I was drawing my deck every turn, and I was STILL getting Villagers faster than I was spending them.
As previously noted, villagers come fast and furious in most Horse games. Sleigh and Cavalry become Labs with some Patron-like flexibility. Livery goes cantrip with one >$4 gain and reaches Champion level with additional gains. Even Groom and Hostelry can generate a few Acting troupes over the course of the game. Even Scrap can generate a lot of villagers to significantly impact the game (e.g. trashing a silver at the end of each turn can give you a villager and a horse to increase odds of successful draw the next turn). Event the events are mostly strong. Ride converts buy and coins to actions and draw which is usually a winning trade. Stampede is basically like playing two Acting troupes while demand can turn $4 cantrips into a cantrip + most of an Acting Troupe.

End of the day, Horse is a cantrip that is cheap to acquire. Academy makes cheap cantrips really powerful. Whether it is gaining Pixies/Wisps, Horses, or maxing out Stonemason/Butterfly Way. Heck I have even bought 4 Ruins to trash out with Chapel  just to enable a megaturn.

Academy is one of those things that combos with most anything so it combos with nothing. Oddly enough, plentiful village gains and other cheap +action (e.g. Kc, Champion) are one of the few compelling reasons to skip Academy. Otherwise, Academy seems to make just about all other action cards to undergo a fairly dramatic power boost.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1598 on: July 20, 2021, 01:12:19 am »
0

Game with Goat, Market Square, Peddler, and Pixie, and Tower.  Once you buy a bunch of Market Squares, it becomes really easy to pile out Peddler.  Plus, Goat + Market Square makes it easy to get Golds.  My opponent completely overlooked that, and I was able to win the game 24-9, with all of my points coming from Tower - 9 Peddlers, 10 Market Squares, and 5 Pixies, having made a 3-pile ending by buying up the last Market Squares and Pixies.  My opponent, on the other hand, had just one Province, 1 Peddler, and 2 Pixies.  Treasure Map was also in the kingdom, and they went for that instead.  They did manage to activate the Treasure Map, but it didn't do them much good.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1599 on: July 20, 2021, 02:21:52 am »
+2

Game with Goat, Market Square, Peddler, and Pixie, and Tower.  Once you buy a bunch of Market Squares, it becomes really easy to pile out Peddler.  Plus, Goat + Market Square makes it easy to get Golds.  My opponent completely overlooked that, and I was able to win the game 24-9, with all of my points coming from Tower - 9 Peddlers, 10 Market Squares, and 5 Pixies, having made a 3-pile ending by buying up the last Market Squares and Pixies.  My opponent, on the other hand, had just one Province, 1 Peddler, and 2 Pixies.  Treasure Map was also in the kingdom, and they went for that instead.  They did manage to activate the Treasure Map, but it didn't do them much good.

Thanks, I'll be sure to keep this in mind the next time I roll a kingdom with Market Square, Peddler, Pixie, and Tower.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1600 on: July 20, 2021, 02:40:49 pm »
+1

Game with Goat, Market Square, Peddler, and Pixie, and Tower.  Once you buy a bunch of Market Squares, it becomes really easy to pile out Peddler.  Plus, Goat + Market Square makes it easy to get Golds.  My opponent completely overlooked that, and I was able to win the game 24-9, with all of my points coming from Tower - 9 Peddlers, 10 Market Squares, and 5 Pixies, having made a 3-pile ending by buying up the last Market Squares and Pixies.  My opponent, on the other hand, had just one Province, 1 Peddler, and 2 Pixies.  Treasure Map was also in the kingdom, and they went for that instead.  They did manage to activate the Treasure Map, but it didn't do them much good.

Thanks, I'll be sure to keep this in mind the next time I roll a kingdom with Market Square, Peddler, Pixie, and Tower.

Don't forget Treasure Map to act as a distraction for your opponent.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1601 on: July 28, 2021, 05:57:43 pm »
0

Not too creative, but Devil's Market and any event worth buying, especially repeatable ones is nasty af.

Specifcally Banish is amazing.  Was able to banish 3 estates and 5 coppers for 4 golds over the first like 8 or 9 rounds, as each time your deck gets smaller to to bring that Devil's market back.  Plus the golds help in getting the needed 4 to exile lots of coppers or estates
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1602 on: July 28, 2021, 06:33:20 pm »
0

Not too creative, but Devil's Market and any event worth buying, especially repeatable ones is nasty af.

Specifcally Banish is amazing.  Was able to banish 3 estates and 5 coppers for 4 golds over the first like 8 or 9 rounds, as each time your deck gets smaller to to bring that Devil's market back.  Plus the golds help in getting the needed 4 to exile lots of coppers or estates

devil's workshop? or is devil's market a translation of something like windfall or commerce?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1603 on: July 30, 2021, 02:13:26 pm »
0

Livery/Academy

With a cube on Academy playing Livery is more or less like playing 3 Peddlers, if you gain a card costing $4 or more. With +buys and multiple Liverys you are quite soon at a point, where you never need to worry about Actions again and wish that the Horse pile would be bigger.

Throw in a populate and shit gets real crazy....



too bad there was no diamdem

3 piling by hitting three populates was a funny way to end tho
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1604 on: August 03, 2021, 04:33:53 am »
0

Mastermind/Way of the Frog. Mastermind collision is no longer a problem!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1605 on: August 06, 2021, 10:22:45 am »
0

Adding to fun stuff with Livery...

Livery/Procession

Play Livery, gain Horses, Procession Horses, gain more Processions and Horses. It becomes fairly easy to empty the Procession and Horse piles quickly.
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Honkeyfresh

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1606 on: August 07, 2021, 01:58:42 pm »
0

Even with very minimal in-turn silver gaining/buys available Conquest can be pretty great.  In this game I used my 3 scraps & one wharf to repeatedly drew more scraps to trash more silvers. Plus once your opponent gets 5 or 6 provinces in their bloated deck they won't be able to do shit while you are just stacking "silver duchies" and the occasional "silver province".



 Tweaking when to get an extra horse here and there and if you get lucky enough to draw to 2 coins and have an extra buy you can get the boon of the 2x conquest and essentially get a province that doesn't green your deck one bit.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1607 on: August 07, 2021, 02:02:59 pm »
+1

Not too creative, but Devil's Market Workshop and any event worth buying, especially repeatable ones is nasty af.

Specifcally Banish is amazing.  Was able to banish 3 estates and 5 coppers for 4 golds over the first like 8 or 9 rounds, as each time your deck gets smaller to to bring that Devil's market back.  Plus the golds help in getting the needed 4 to exile lots of coppers or estates

devil's workshop? or is devil's market a translation of something like windfall or commerce?
When you make as much bank as That Devils Worksop gets it turns into a Devil's Market....  ::)

You can get in trouble when you smoke copious amounts of weed at the Devils Workshop and forget where you even are...


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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1608 on: August 07, 2021, 02:05:41 pm »
0

Adding to fun stuff with Livery...

Livery/Procession

Play Livery, gain Horses, Procession Horses, gain more Processions and Horses. It becomes fairly easy to empty the Procession and Horse piles quickly.

Unless you are holding them for like triumphal arch emptying the horse pile is fairly inconsequential.  Not in supply and the wild horses always return to pasture.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1609 on: August 08, 2021, 04:56:20 am »
+5

Royal Carriage (or any throner) + Hunting Lodge + Way of the Chameleon

You can Chameleon a Hunting Lodge to discard your hand for +$6, then replay it normally and draw back up to 5 with a bunch of actions to spare. Pretty neat!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1610 on: August 11, 2021, 12:35:43 am »
+1

Way of the Otter + Lost Arts = Turn a cheap Action card into a Lab
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1611 on: August 11, 2021, 01:43:06 am »
0

Royal Carriage (or any throner) + Hunting Lodge + Way of the Chameleon

You can Chameleon a Hunting Lodge to discard your hand for +$6, then replay it normally and draw back up to 5 with a bunch of actions to spare. Pretty neat!

I managed to pull off this combo with Scepter once. Then you don't have to worry about potentially discarding anything useful, since you can just play the Scepter last!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1612 on: August 13, 2021, 09:29:42 pm »
0

Stockpile/Calvary can lead to some pretty pretty easy 3 piles if you can empty your draw pile...

honestly a i was a lil high and bought two stockpiles (so my opponent couldn't buy one) before i remembered i could three pile so easily.  If I had waited for a second buy after i  emptied my pile again i might have been able to clear all the  provinces
This was on t 13
Game 83021210
Quote
h plays a Stockpile.
h gets +1 Buy.
h exiles a Stockpile.
h plays a Stockpile.
h gets +1 Buy.
h exiles a Stockpile.
h plays a Stockpile.
h gets +1 Buy.
h exiles a Stockpile.
h plays a Stockpile.
h gets +1 Buy.
h exiles a Stockpile.
h plays a Stockpile.
h gets +1 Buy.
h exiles a Stockpile.
h buys and gains a Stockpile.
h discards 5 Stockpiles from Exile.
h buys and gains a Stockpile.
h buys and gains a Cavalry.
h draws a Coin of the Realm and a Livery.
h gets +1 Buy.
h plays a Coin of the Realm. (+$1)
h puts a Coin of the Realm on their Tavern mat.
h buys and gains a Cavalry.
h draws an Estate and a Cavalry.
h gets +1 Buy.
h buys and gains a Cavalry.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws 2 Stockpiles.
h gets +1 Buy.
h buys and gains a Cavalry.
h draws a Stockpile and a Cavalry.
h gets +1 Buy.
h plays a Stockpile.
h gets +1 Buy.
h exiles a Stockpile.
h plays a Stockpile.
h gets +1 Buy.
h exiles a Stockpile.
h plays a Stockpile.
h gets +1 Buy.
h exiles a Stockpile.
h buys and gains a Cavalry.
h draws a Stockpile and a Cavalry.
h gets +1 Buy.
h plays a Stockpile.
h gets +1 Buy.
h exiles a Stockpile.
h buys and gains 2 Provinces.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2021, 09:38:20 pm by Honkeyfresh »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1613 on: August 16, 2021, 07:06:01 am »
+1

Not sure why I never really thought of this before but Tournament & Transmogrify has fantastic synergy.  I've had better success opening transmog as it needs a shuffle to get down.  Twice i never even bought a tourney, just made on from a silver, and even once a gold. Or you can just get one when if you get an unlucky 4 draw an t5. Helps thin estates to get silvers early thus greatly helping the Race to 8.  And after that have even more fun!  Miss your tourney?  As long as there is another card in your hand that is 3 or greater cost you guarantee yourself a prize.  I've done this 3x in the last week and was able to get a prize mad early.  Before my opponent had even Provied (well once they got one the turn before but I was already holding a transmogable prize.   Tried for the Prince/KC/Forge/Bank route and missed?  Turn one of them into a province and then claim your prize. 

Usually I gain followers and then turn all those engine clogging estates into whatever 3 cost or less card helps best. Draw prince with no coins?  Flip that sentry/graveyard/counting house into gold which basically is a plat. same for diadem with no actions or bag of gold with no draw. Plus all those duchies you get at prizes but don't really want cuz they gum up your smooth vp-8 engine?  They are now Golds  which really help when your deck gets clogged with province/estates & duchies.



« Last Edit: August 16, 2021, 11:04:11 pm by Honkeyfresh »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1614 on: August 17, 2021, 02:33:31 am »
+2

Way of the Turtle can basically give you immunity to Enchantress. All you need is to Turtle one Action card from turn to turn. Since the Turtled card is the first Action played, it's the one that's hit by Enchantress' attack, even if you then use the Way to override it. A cheap Action card, or a card whose usefulness runs out later in the game, like Chapel or Moneylender, are especially good cards to use for this
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1615 on: August 17, 2021, 03:45:18 am »
0

Way of the Turtle can basically give you immunity to Enchantress. All you need is to Turtle one Action card from turn to turn. Since the Turtled card is the first Action played, it's the one that's hit by Enchantress' attack, even if you then use the Way to override it. A cheap Action card, or a card whose usefulness runs out later in the game, like Chapel or Moneylender, are especially good cards to use for this

Nice. That's actually better than immunity.  You basically get a hireling when enchantress is played
« Last Edit: August 17, 2021, 03:46:48 am by Honkeyfresh »
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mxdata

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1616 on: August 17, 2021, 03:51:52 am »
+1

Way of the Turtle can basically give you immunity to Enchantress. All you need is to Turtle one Action card from turn to turn. Since the Turtled card is the first Action played, it's the one that's hit by Enchantress' attack, even if you then use the Way to override it. A cheap Action card, or a card whose usefulness runs out later in the game, like Chapel or Moneylender, are especially good cards to use for this

Nice. That's actually better than immunity.  You basically get a hireling when enchantress is played

More like a Lost City, if you don't use Way of the Turtle, since it gets discarded at Clean-Up
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1617 on: August 28, 2021, 09:11:32 pm »
0

So I am a beginner and found an interesting trio of cards

Got me through a slog board with no trashers, draw, plus buy or other gainers. Helped me cycle through junk, and reliably gained gold (there was a tunnel race going on to collide it with cellar early and then clear piles)

Lots of interesting card combinations in this game!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1618 on: August 29, 2021, 02:08:48 pm »
+3

Champion and Way of the Otter turns all your Actions into Labs, but with Highways you get Labs with cost reduction!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1619 on: October 05, 2021, 12:49:49 am »
+4

So I am a beginner and found an interesting trio of cards

Got me through a slog board with no trashers, draw, plus buy or other gainers. Helped me cycle through junk, and reliably gained gold (there was a tunnel race going on to collide it with cellar early and then clear piles)

Lots of interesting card combinations in this game!
I'm confused. Are you going to tell us what these 3 cards were, or are we supposed to guess?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1620 on: October 08, 2021, 03:05:57 pm »
+2

Procession and Way of the Turtle is pretty awesome (WoT once on the processed action). It's basically: Play an action this turn and next turn. Gain an action costing 1 more than it.

Kinda like a gaining super-Captain effect.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2021, 11:12:00 am by allanfieldhouse »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1621 on: October 10, 2021, 02:25:08 am »
+1

Seer ./. Baron
Seer makes you draw Estates with Barons more often than not. In a recent game I managed to pull off Throne Room / Baron twice.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1622 on: March 03, 2022, 12:58:28 pm »
+6

Opponent plays Possession, followed by Witch for the ultimate insult.

Respond to gaining the curse by playing Sheepdog, playing it as Way of the Mouse which has a Vassal set aside. Vassal discards Lich. Play it, draw a bunch of cards, skip your Possessed turn and move on to your normal turn.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1623 on: March 03, 2022, 02:33:32 pm »
+4

Opponent plays Possession, followed by Witch for the ultimate insult.

Respond to gaining the curse by playing Sheepdog, playing it as Way of the Mouse which has a Vassal set aside. Vassal discards Lich. Play it, draw a bunch of cards, skip your Possessed turn and move on to your normal turn.

I'll be sure to keep this in mind the next time I'm playing a kingdom with Possession, Witch, Sheepdog, Wizards and Way of the Mouse with Vassal.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1624 on: March 03, 2022, 03:45:21 pm »
+3

Opponent plays Possession, followed by Witch for the ultimate insult.

Respond to gaining the curse by playing Sheepdog, playing it as Way of the Mouse which has a Vassal set aside. Vassal discards Lich. Play it, draw a bunch of cards, skip your Possessed turn and move on to your normal turn.

I'll be sure to keep this in mind the next time I'm playing a kingdom with Possession, Witch, Sheepdog, Wizards and Way of the Mouse with Vassal.

Actually, it occurs to me this story would be better with Sorcerer instead of Witch. Fewer distinct kingdom cards are required, and the Sorcerer would reveal the Lich, giving Gendo good reason to actually decide use Vassal in reaction to gaining the Curse.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1625 on: March 05, 2022, 02:23:30 am »
+1

Importer + Peaceful Cult = All the Estates trashed before the first shuffle!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1626 on: March 05, 2022, 03:42:08 pm »
0

Voyage + Vassal/Herald/Courier/Captain/etc.
"...you can only play 3 cards from your hand."
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1627 on: March 05, 2022, 05:51:15 pm »
+1

Voyage + Vassal/Herald/Courier/Captain/etc.
"...you can only play 3 cards from your hand."

Herald doesn't help; you still have to play the Herald from your hand. Vassal and Courier give you +coin in addition to playing cards not in your hand, but Herald just gives you +Actiion you can't use and +Card you can't play.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1628 on: March 05, 2022, 09:54:25 pm »
0

Voyage + Vassal/Herald/Courier/Captain/etc.
"...you can only play 3 cards from your hand."

Herald doesn't help; you still have to play the Herald from your hand. Vassal and Courier give you +coin in addition to playing cards not in your hand, but Herald just gives you +Actiion you can't use and +Card you can't play.
Herald plays a card not from hand also
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1629 on: March 05, 2022, 11:17:27 pm »
+1

Voyage + Vassal/Herald/Courier/Captain/etc.
"...you can only play 3 cards from your hand."

Herald doesn't help; you still have to play the Herald from your hand. Vassal and Courier give you +coin in addition to playing cards not in your hand, but Herald just gives you +Actiion you can't use and +Card you can't play.
Herald plays a card not from hand also

Yeah, but only one. So you play one card from hand (Herald) to gamble that it will reveal a good Action card
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1630 on: March 06, 2022, 02:22:25 am »
+1

Voyage + Vassal/Herald/Courier/Captain/etc.
"...you can only play 3 cards from your hand."

Herald doesn't help; you still have to play the Herald from your hand. Vassal and Courier give you +coin in addition to playing cards not in your hand, but Herald just gives you +Actiion you can't use and +Card you can't play.
Herald plays a card not from hand also

Yeah, but only one. So you play one card from hand (Herald) to gamble that it will reveal a good Action card

Right, unlike Vassal or Courier or Golem, on a Voyage turn playing Herald and finding an Action card in your deck and playing that is not much better than playing that Action card from your hand itself.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1631 on: March 06, 2022, 09:36:01 am »
+3

What's worth noting about Herald is that whereas Villages and Smithies use up your limit to get to your cards you actually want to play, Heralds revealing Heralds doesn't, so Voyage is substantially less garbage in Herald engines than normal engines, but even a long Herald chain will only play at most one worthwhile card per one card played from hand, so you can't use it to meaningfully get around Voyage's restriction.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1632 on: March 06, 2022, 02:11:08 pm »
0

Prince + Courier is a surprisingly strong combo, at least, if you're not drawing your deck every turn. It's a lot weaker when you start your turn with no discard pile
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1633 on: March 06, 2022, 10:00:31 pm »
+3

Lost in the Woods + Gang of Pickpockets is an interesting combination. Assuming you're starting with the usual hand of 5 cards, both are trying to get you to discard one card. So if you resolve Lost in the Woods first, then you're already at four cards when Pickpockets resolves (of course, if you want to discard down to three, maybe because you have a draw-to-X card or two Tunnels in hand, you can choose to resolve Pickpockets first).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1634 on: March 07, 2022, 02:19:14 am »
0

Lost in the Woods + Gang of Pickpockets is an interesting combination. Assuming you're starting with the usual hand of 5 cards, both are trying to get you to discard one card. So if you resolve Lost in the Woods first, then you're already at four cards when Pickpockets resolves (of course, if you want to discard down to three, maybe because you have a draw-to-X card or two Tunnels in hand, you can choose to resolve Pickpockets first).

Interesting. This is even more relevant if Fool is somehow more desirable on the board than any Liaison(s), though this seems doubtful. Or it’s a “setup only” Liaison like Importer.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1635 on: March 07, 2022, 02:24:21 pm »
+1

I used broker to trash 2 provinces (first for favors, second for buys) and then 3 piled estates/guardians/border guards in a plateau shepherds game.  I think I either got 10 or 11 of them on the last turn as I had another source of a buy somewhere.  Broker's ability to get a ridiculous amount of favors and buys rapidly allows you to snatch a whole bunch of em before the other player even realizes a three pile was really an issue.  With the right engine and a throne room/ghost/KC/crown variant you could probably gain 2 whole piles (especially a pile like estates that you don't want in your deck) in one move.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1636 on: March 09, 2022, 09:55:14 am »
+2

With Student and Fellowship of Scribes you can keep trashing the Treasure cards in your hand (if after trashing you have less than 5 cards) by
  • playing Student, trashing a Treasure, gaining a Favor and putting the card on your deck
  • paying the Favor to Fellowship of Scribes to draw 1 card which is the topdecked Student
  • rinse and repeat

So if you start with a hand of Student-Copper-Copper-Copper-Estate, you can essentially Chapel your entire hand this way.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1637 on: March 09, 2022, 10:27:13 am »
+4

Sibyl might draw victory cards for Shepherd to discard so you can draw more. Not the most exciting, but hey: Sybil Shepherd.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1638 on: March 09, 2022, 03:11:04 pm »
+1

Territory loves Castles - they are like a super Humble Castle that you can have four of... you can also use the Battle Plan from the same split pile to spin the castles round to the expensive ones until you are ready to buy to slow your opponent down obtaining them.

I managed to get all four Territories, then work them up to 9VP each (plus the normal castle points etc) before my opponent resigned in disgust.

Also Capital City and Tunnel - discard for benefit, and get a free gold!

« Last Edit: March 09, 2022, 03:12:07 pm by estwdjhn »
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emtzalex

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1639 on: March 09, 2022, 03:42:32 pm »
+1

Merchant Camp + Way of the Owl
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1640 on: March 09, 2022, 05:51:53 pm »
+3

Sycophant + Plateau Shepards. They Sycophants are just instantly worth points!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1641 on: March 10, 2022, 05:21:45 am »
+1

Elder + Lurker. Makes Lurkers instantly gain any Action from the supply.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1642 on: March 10, 2022, 06:22:03 am »
+5

Lich allows you to prolong your duration attacks (swamp hag, highwayman, etc.) across multiple of your opponents' turns.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1643 on: March 10, 2022, 10:34:11 am »
+2

As pointed out in the rulebook, Highwayman can actually draw itself! Was this possible before?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1644 on: March 10, 2022, 11:33:49 am »
+2

As pointed out in the rulebook, Highwayman can actually draw itself! Was this possible before?

It was not possible for Highwayman to draw itself until it was released.


Other cards have been able to draw themselves before, though (e.g. a Wharf trashed from play with Bonfire and gained with Lurker can draw itself at the start of your next turn).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1645 on: March 10, 2022, 10:45:14 pm »
+5

League Of Bankers + Villa
League Of Bankers gives you $ whenever your Buy phase starts... which happens every time you gain Villa. If you have enough favors you can empty the Villa pile and end up with MORE $ than when you started.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1646 on: March 13, 2022, 01:22:14 am »
0

The Forts pile (except for Hill Fort) works nicely with Capitalism. Stronghold is especially good with Capitalism. A Gold this turn or +3 Cards next turn without needing an Action to play, plus 2 VP!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1647 on: March 13, 2022, 01:24:01 am »
+3

My opponent in a game I just played bought Populate with a Garrison in play. +10 cards at the start of their next turn!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1648 on: March 13, 2022, 03:45:48 pm »
+3

Orchard (When scoring, 4VP per differently named Action card you have 3 or more copies of.) with the new split piles is very powerful. It adds 12-16 points possible on those piles and unlike other piles when you get 3 of one of those cards the opponent never can. Played a game with that and Odysseys and the opponent neglected Odysseys so I got +12 in addition to my +8 from all distant shores.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1649 on: March 13, 2022, 04:35:00 pm »
+1

Emissary with the +Action token is really strong. Not only does it become a non-terminal +3 Cards which is always really strong, but being non-terminal means you can easily play multiple copies in one turn, making it far more likely that you'll trigger a reshuffle, gaining favors along with a kind of super-Lost City effect!
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GendoIkari

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1650 on: March 13, 2022, 05:14:04 pm »
+1

Emissary with the +Action token is really strong. Not only does it become a non-terminal +3 Cards which is always really strong, but being non-terminal means you can easily play multiple copies in one turn, making it far more likely that you'll trigger a reshuffle, gaining favors along with a kind of super-Lost City effect!

If there is other draw also available though (especially cheaper draw), probably better to put the +action token on that, since you can only get the Emissary bonus once per turn (without extra discard combos) anyway.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1651 on: March 13, 2022, 05:41:39 pm »
+2

Emissary with the +Action token is really strong. Not only does it become a non-terminal +3 Cards which is always really strong, but being non-terminal means you can easily play multiple copies in one turn, making it far more likely that you'll trigger a reshuffle, gaining favors along with a kind of super-Lost City effect!

If there is other draw also available though (especially cheaper draw), probably better to put the +action token on that, since you can only get the Emissary bonus once per turn (without extra discard combos) anyway.

Vanilla Smithy for $5 is not far below par for the course for terminal draw, there's not really a lot of draw for less than $5 and most of it is pretty bad. In a kingdom with no other villages besides the +action token, the fact that putting it on Emissary allows you to both draw your deck and play two other terminals is substantial. It's also way easier to activate than e.g. Swashbuckler, which people still manage to activate all the time.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1652 on: March 13, 2022, 05:59:36 pm »
0

Emissary with the +Action token is really strong. Not only does it become a non-terminal +3 Cards which is always really strong, but being non-terminal means you can easily play multiple copies in one turn, making it far more likely that you'll trigger a reshuffle, gaining favors along with a kind of super-Lost City effect!

If there is other draw also available though (especially cheaper draw), probably better to put the +action token on that, since you can only get the Emissary bonus once per turn (without extra discard combos) anyway.

Vanilla Smithy for $5 is not far below par for the course for terminal draw, there's not really a lot of draw for less than $5 and most of it is pretty bad. In a kingdom with no other villages besides the +action token, the fact that putting it on Emissary allows you to both draw your deck and play two other terminals is substantial. It's also way easier to activate than e.g. Swashbuckler, which people still manage to activate all the time.

It doesn't let you do that though. You have to have cards in discard to get the extra action ands favors so if you are drawing your whole deck each turn without discarding effects you can't get the bonus.

Saying it's good if there's no other draw is silly, because that's true for any draw, action, and usually buy, that if its the only option its good. Its still not really a combo, and wont outperform much of any other draw options unless you have discard or some other way to set up the extra effect. It is an expensive smithy without that.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1653 on: March 13, 2022, 06:33:44 pm »
+2

Swap works really well with horses, turning non-permanent cards into permanent 5-costs
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1654 on: March 13, 2022, 06:36:40 pm »
+1

Swap works really well with horses, turning non-permanent cards into permanent 5-costs
I got that going with a couple supplies leaving top deck horses and it worked great.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1655 on: March 13, 2022, 07:54:50 pm »
0

It doesn't let you do that though. You have to have cards in discard to get the extra action ands favors so if you are drawing your whole deck each turn without discarding effects you can't get the bonus.

It does let you do that. You don't need to have discarding effects (which notably include discard attacks from your opponent), you can also have your opponent junk you, or you can have mid-turn gains yourself. These effects are not that uncommon, in fact I bet if someone did the math, it would turn out it is more common for at least one of them to be present in any given kingdom. Even in their absence, you can have a deck that sometimes fails to draw the entire deck, which you can always choose to do on purpose if getting to play two terminals is that important, e.g. because they're Bridge Trolls.

Saying it's good if there's no other draw is silly, because that's true for any draw, action, and usually buy, that if its the only option its good. Its still not really a combo, and wont outperform much of any other draw options unless you have discard or some other way to set up the extra effect. It is an expensive smithy without that.

I'm not saying it's good if there's no other draw, I'm saying it's good if there's no better draw, which excludes a lot of stuff. It's not an expensive Smithy, it's a market price Smithy (see: Swashbuckler, Werewolf, Rabble, Patrol, Journeyman, Catacombs, late game Old Witch, all of which are cards that people buy all the time) whereas Smithy itself is an exceptionally cheap Smithy.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1656 on: March 13, 2022, 09:31:30 pm »
+7

it's a market price Smithy

You could also say it's a Market price Smithy.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1657 on: March 14, 2022, 01:20:14 am »
0

Swap works really well with horses, turning non-permanent cards into permanent 5-costs
I got that going with a couple supplies leaving top deck horses and it worked great.
That's funny, I also had Supplies for the horses in the game that I used it.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1658 on: March 14, 2022, 01:32:56 am »
+2

Voyage puts cards in your discard pile. It's useful for say, Emissary, Courier, or Swashbuckler.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1659 on: March 14, 2022, 07:35:07 pm »
0

Voyage puts cards in your discard pile. It's useful for say, Emissary, Courier, or Swashbuckler.

How does Voyage behave any differently with regard to your discard pile than taking a regular turn?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1660 on: March 14, 2022, 07:38:08 pm »
+1

Voyage puts cards in your discard pile. It's useful for say, Emissary, Courier, or Swashbuckler.

How does Voyage behave any differently with regard to your discard pile than taking a regular turn?

It's not a regular turn so you're not going to draw your deck. Voyage + Courier especially is a legit ThingŤ™ that comes up reasonably often in Allies-heavy games.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2022, 07:39:45 pm by Awaclus »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1661 on: March 14, 2022, 07:59:30 pm »
0

Voyage puts cards in your discard pile. It's useful for say, Emissary, Courier, or Swashbuckler.

How does Voyage behave any differently with regard to your discard pile than taking a regular turn?

It's not a regular turn so you're not going to draw your deck. Voyage + Courier especially is a legit ThingŤ™ that comes up reasonably often in Allies-heavy games.

I can see Courier being useful with Voyage because it plays from the discard instead of your hand, but that's not because of anything Voyage did to the discard. I also don't see how Emissary and Swashbuckler behave any differently on Voyage turns.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1662 on: March 15, 2022, 12:06:25 am »
+3

Voyage puts cards in your discard pile. It's useful for say, Emissary, Courier, or Swashbuckler.

How does Voyage behave any differently with regard to your discard pile than taking a regular turn?

It's not a regular turn so you're not going to draw your deck. Voyage + Courier especially is a legit ThingŤ™ that comes up reasonably often in Allies-heavy games.

I can see Courier being useful with Voyage because it plays from the discard instead of your hand, but that's not because of anything Voyage did to the discard. I also don't see how Emissary and Swashbuckler behave any differently on Voyage turns.

It's a somewhat minor plus, but his point is just that since Voyage is a limited turn, you'll end the Voyage turn with having cards in your discard pile, even if you normally would otherwise draw your deck.

E.g., say you can draw your deck and play a Voyage at the end--on the Voyage turn, you play any 3 cards, and then you draw a new hand after discarding those cards into your discard pile. Your next turn will now have you start with cards in your discard pile, when you normally wouldn't have a discard pile after drawing your whole deck each turn.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1663 on: March 15, 2022, 12:09:23 am »
+1

Voyage puts cards in your discard pile. It's useful for say, Emissary, Courier, or Swashbuckler.

How does Voyage behave any differently with regard to your discard pile than taking a regular turn?

It's not a regular turn so you're not going to draw your deck. Voyage + Courier especially is a legit ThingŤ™ that comes up reasonably often in Allies-heavy games.

I can see Courier being useful with Voyage because it plays from the discard instead of your hand, but that's not because of anything Voyage did to the discard. I also don't see how Emissary and Swashbuckler behave any differently on Voyage turns.
I don't think they're talking about using those cards on the Voyage turn. They're talking about using them on your regular turn after your discard has a bunch of stuff you discarded on your Voyage turns.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1664 on: March 16, 2022, 09:47:03 pm »
+7

I just played a game with Black Market and Way of the Horse. I don't know if this has been pointed out before, but with Way of the Horse, everything you buy from Black Market can be a Lab - you get the +2 Cards, +1 Action but it doesn't have a pile to return to, so it stays in play.

On the other hand, the game also had Gatekeeper. As it turns out, that is a VERY nasty Black Market counter.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1665 on: March 17, 2022, 05:25:50 pm »
+2

I just played a game with Black Market and Way of the Horse. I don't know if this has been pointed out before, but with Way of the Horse, everything you buy from Black Market can be a Lab - you get the +2 Cards, +1 Action but it doesn't have a pile to return to, so it stays in play.

On the other hand, the game also had Gatekeeper. As it turns out, that is a VERY nasty Black Market counter.

On the same token, Captain+Way of the Horse is also hilariously strong.

(I'm also wondering: does it really have to be this way? Can't cards from the Black Market have the Black Market Deck as "its pile"?)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2022, 05:30:02 pm by grrgrrgrr »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1666 on: March 17, 2022, 09:55:55 pm »
+2

I just played a game with Black Market and Way of the Horse. I don't know if this has been pointed out before, but with Way of the Horse, everything you buy from Black Market can be a Lab - you get the +2 Cards, +1 Action but it doesn't have a pile to return to, so it stays in play.
It has been pointed out, yes. Necropolis and the Zombies also have the same quality.
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BraydonM

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1667 on: March 18, 2022, 01:06:05 am »
+3

I just played a game with Black Market and Way of the Horse. I don't know if this has been pointed out before, but with Way of the Horse, everything you buy from Black Market can be a Lab - you get the +2 Cards, +1 Action but it doesn't have a pile to return to, so it stays in play.

On the other hand, the game also had Gatekeeper. As it turns out, that is a VERY nasty Black Market counter.
To be fair Black Market may be more balanced and less random with everything being a lab instead of randomly giving only one person labs.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1668 on: March 18, 2022, 10:17:27 pm »
+3

Specialist + Skirmisher
A MUCH better love story than Twilight.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1669 on: March 19, 2022, 02:19:55 am »
+2

Possession + Order of Masons → Let me just leave all your best cards in the discard pile
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BraydonM

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1670 on: March 19, 2022, 02:29:25 am »
+2

Gang of pickpockets lets you discard duplicates to trigger menagerie much more reliably.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1671 on: March 19, 2022, 09:07:12 am »
+2

Pay (on Capital City) is not affected by having debt - you can pay $2 to draw more cards yet.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1672 on: March 19, 2022, 11:25:22 am »
+2

I had a 5/2 opening on a board with Summon and Bounty Hunter. So on Turn 1, I bought Summon to gain a Bounty Hunter, and on turn 2, I Exiled one of my Estates for $3 and bought a Soothsayer. So it was effectively a 4/5 opening! Plus Exiling one of my Estates before the first shuffle
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1673 on: March 19, 2022, 02:41:10 pm »
+4

I guess, if you can Possess someone with a Lich in their deck and make them play Lich on each of their (final) Possession turns, you can keep them from ever getting a normal turn.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1674 on: March 19, 2022, 06:13:46 pm »
+1

Trappers' Lodge + Traveller lines lets you get a jump start on upgrading them - you can buy Page or Peasant on Turn 1, topdeck it, and play it on Turn 2, getting the next card before your first shuffle
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1675 on: March 20, 2022, 02:59:59 pm »
0

If you gain a card with a Courier in hand, you can play that same card immediately afterwards, assuming you have at least one card in your draw pile. This is especially good with non-terminal gainers like Carpenter
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BraydonM

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1676 on: March 22, 2022, 04:20:06 am »
+1

Mountebank becomes extra dangerous with Wall in play. Cursing and Coppering an opponent for -3 VP is insane and it still gives -1VP from the copper even after curses run out.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1677 on: March 23, 2022, 02:19:05 am »
0

Villa + Fellowship of Scribes is handy, provided you have a good source of Favors, netting +1 Card +2 Actions +$1 +1 Buy
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BraydonM

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1678 on: March 23, 2022, 02:30:07 am »
+3

Villa + Fellowship of Scribes is handy, provided you have a good source of Favors, netting +1 Card +2 Actions +$1 +1 Buy
While you're not wrong at all that is the point of Fellowship of Scribes. Any none-terminal that doesn't draw is good with it.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1679 on: March 24, 2022, 12:35:34 am »
+1

I haven't tried this yet, but is student + scheme any good?

Play student, trash copper, topdeck student, play scheme, draw student, trash copper, topdeck student, end turn, topdeck scheme. Repeat for a few turns.

Guess it's hard to buy anything though.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1680 on: March 24, 2022, 09:41:44 pm »
+8

Just discovered today that when you play a Hireling as your first action in a turn whilst you have Citadel, that Hireling gives you +2 cards at the start of each turn for the rest of the game instead of the usual +1.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1681 on: March 27, 2022, 02:24:17 pm »
0

Market Towns makes Miser very strong if you've got a good source of Favors such as Underling, and especially if you've got +buy in the kingdom. But even without +buy, a couple of Misers will let you stash away your Coppers quickly, making each Miser almost a guaranteed Province
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1682 on: March 29, 2022, 07:23:26 pm »
+1

Student + Fellowship of Scribes lets you easily trash multiple Coppers (or other Treasures) in a single turn. Trash a Treasure, get a Favor and topdeck Student. Unless you'd drawn multiple cards earlier in your turn, you now have less than 5 cards in your hand, so you can use the Favor you just got to draw your Student back!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1683 on: March 29, 2022, 07:25:14 pm »
+2

Guildmaster/City-State. I don't normally play as many Actions in my Buy phase as I did just now.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1684 on: March 30, 2022, 09:18:26 pm »
+2

I had a game with Peasant and Merchant Camp. Once I got the Teacher, I put the +Card token on Merchant Camp, turning them into the equivalent of $3-cost Treasuries that topdeck even when buying a Victory card! (And gave me far more Actions then I needed) My opponent missed that combo, so I was able to buy up nearly the whole pile (it also helped that Gallery was also in the game, making it easier to buy multiple $3's)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1685 on: April 01, 2022, 06:47:26 pm »
+1

Just had a merchant camp and tactician board.  Not only is merchant camp disappearing money, but it also helped me play bard and other terminal money without running out of actions, easily enabling double tactician. 
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1686 on: April 03, 2022, 05:36:22 pm »
+3

Had a game with League of Shopkeepers where the only Liaison was Emissary. I didn't think that would work out, so I mostly ignored the Emissary. But my opponent invested heavily in them and managed to pull it off, with Research for light trashing and Capital City for extra actions. They managed to hit 10 Favors, so that Emissary became a net +1 Action +3 Cards +$1 +1 Buy, becoming a really strong card. By the time they got that, I already had 5 Provinces, but once they had that combo, they were able to buy enough Provinces and Duchies to win the game
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1687 on: April 04, 2022, 10:37:25 am »
+5

In a recent game I discovered that Voyage has a strong synergy with Exploration. Basically you are highly rewarded for doing a lot of nothing. :)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1688 on: April 04, 2022, 11:06:36 am »
+4

In a recent game I discovered that Voyage has a strong synergy with Exploration. Basically you are highly rewarded for doing a lot of nothing. :)

throw in a Baths, you got yourself a real do-nothing combo
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1689 on: April 04, 2022, 11:40:11 am »
+1

In a recent game I discovered that Voyage has a strong synergy with Exploration. Basically you are highly rewarded for doing a lot of nothing. :)

throw in a Baths, you got yourself a real do-nothing combo

Haha, true. Although Baths doesn't work if you are gaining cards. (In many Voyage turns you gain cards but do not buy any.)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1690 on: April 04, 2022, 07:38:28 pm »
+2

In a recent game I discovered that Voyage has a strong synergy with Exploration. Basically you are highly rewarded for doing a lot of nothing. :)
You discovered Voyages of Exploration are a thing? 8)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1691 on: April 07, 2022, 07:49:15 pm »
+1

Contract also has good synergy with Voyage because of the way it lets you weasel around the restriction on playing cards from your hand: when you set aside a card from your hand, you're not playing it on that turn, and when you play a set aside card, it's not from your hand on that turn.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1692 on: April 07, 2022, 10:03:01 pm »
+1

Ghost hitting Marquis = Net +15 cards discard 10, essentially getting to pick the best 10 cards out of 20 to start your next turn
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1693 on: April 08, 2022, 06:21:33 am »
0

You can use Bauble (or any of the other topdecking effects) to topdeck the Gold from Treasure Trove but not the Copper.

Posting here because it was an interaction I didn't think about until after I bought the cards.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1694 on: April 08, 2022, 12:16:56 pm »
0

You can use Bauble (or any of the other topdecking effects) to topdeck the Gold from Treasure Trove but not the Copper.

Posting here because it was an interaction I didn't think about until after I bought the cards.

Watchtower is the best one for that, because you can topdeck the Gold and trash the Copper
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1695 on: April 08, 2022, 12:44:55 pm »
+4

This is an obvious synergy, but I played a game with it and it was as powerful as expected:
Lich+Governor+mountain village

It's like the Governor deck except you don't have to use any Governors for gold gaining or draw. You can use them all for remodeling on a megaturn. My last turn, I drew enough (with barge and MV) to have 4 Governors, a Lich, and 4 MVs in hand. I trashed Lich 4 times in a row for the last four provinces, then draw it a fifth time, played it, and drew the rest of my cards to buy whatever duchies were needed to finish FTW.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1696 on: April 09, 2022, 08:05:04 am »
+2

Marquis + Way of the Chameleon
Do I need to explain this? Marquis becomes a ridiculous, and I mean, RIDICULOUS source of money.

Possession + Odysseys
Make sure you get your Sunken Treasure before it's too late!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1697 on: April 09, 2022, 02:31:11 pm »
0

Possession + Odysseys
Make sure you get your Sunken Treasure before it's too late!

I don't get this one... are you just saying because it lets you gain Possessions easily?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1698 on: April 11, 2022, 05:23:04 am »
+1

Possession + Odysseys
Make sure you get your Sunken Treasure before it's too late!

I don't get this one... are you just saying because it lets you gain Possessions easily?
It lets you gain Possessions easier than anything we have seen before; the significance of that cannot be overstated enough. On top of that, Voyage is also excellent for getting multiple Possession plays.

In the game on which I got this interaction, I opened with Old Map, got a Voyage and a Sunken Treasure, and always cycled until Distant Shore was on top. My opponent underestimated the importance of that pile (or should I say: the urgency of getting stuff thereof) and got none of these. By the time I played my first Possession (on a Voyage turn), I had two of these, and my opponent was like: "let's get the hell out of here."
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1699 on: April 11, 2022, 02:40:11 pm »
+5

I haven't had this yet in a game, but it occurs to me that Fellowship of Scribes would let your actually productively Throne/KC a Tactician. Just spend a favor between each play of Tactician to have a card in hand to discard on the next play!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1700 on: April 11, 2022, 04:37:54 pm »
0

Way of the Horse + Sycophant is pretty nice. It makes buying Sycophant essentially like buying Ride, except that you also get +2 Favors
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1701 on: April 12, 2022, 04:58:00 pm »
0

Prince of Underling can be really strong with the right Ally. I had a game with League of Shopkeepers and that combination, so I was getting +2 Actions +1 Card +$1 +1 Buy at the start of every turn (I'd already reached 10 Favors before I even Princed it). Underling with that Ally is already pretty strong, considering how fast you can accumulate Favors with it
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1702 on: April 13, 2022, 11:42:48 pm »
0

Donate + Leprechaun
I was able to get 7 Provinces in 12 turns with this. I lost to an Inventor-Fairgrounds engine, but it's still worth considering if you see it. Only half of the Hexes will actually hurt you. Of those, Misery and Locusts only do minor damage.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1703 on: April 17, 2022, 05:00:35 pm »
+3

Capitalism + Sycophant is an interesting combination. It doesn't really work for multiple copies, but if you have just one in hand going into your buy phase, you can use it after spending all your other Treasures, and only have to discard Victory cards or unused Actions. Of course, this wouldn't work very well in games with strong trashing, but the game it came up in had no trashing, so most of the time I had a Victory card or two in hand going into my buy phase
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1704 on: April 23, 2022, 11:34:39 am »
+5

Has Swap + Emporium been mentioned already?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1705 on: May 05, 2022, 11:29:35 am »
+5

Ambassador/Wild Hunt. For when you want a clay-court game.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1706 on: July 10, 2022, 01:10:33 pm »
+5

Souk/Gamble is pretty neat. If you have no cards in hand/deck/discard and at least $7, you can gain the entire Souk pile in one turn, and then the Souks are generally at least Golds for your Gamble deck and better if you get any Treasures or disappearing Actions in your hand.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1707 on: July 11, 2022, 03:37:06 am »
0

Capital City + Guard Dog is a nice combo. By discarding for the +$2, you can then set up your hand to get +4 Cards from Guard Dog
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1708 on: July 19, 2022, 04:21:51 pm »
+3

Groundskeeoer ./. Way of the Rat

In a Gronudskeeper kingdom, it is hard to find the sweet spot when to start gaining Groundskeepers. As cantrips, Groundskeepers do not work towards hands that can afford more Groundskeepers. But Way of the Rat enables the very Groundkeepers to gain more of their kin, thus allowing to start purchasing them quite early in the game.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1709 on: July 20, 2022, 05:13:01 am »
0

Possession + Odysseys
Make sure you get your Sunken Treasure before it's too late!

I don't get this one... are you just saying because it lets you gain Possessions easily?
It lets you gain Possessions easier than anything we have seen before; the significance of that cannot be overstated enough. On top of that, Voyage is also excellent for getting multiple Possession plays.

In the game on which I got this interaction, I opened with Old Map, got a Voyage and a Sunken Treasure, and always cycled until Distant Shore was on top. My opponent underestimated the importance of that pile (or should I say: the urgency of getting stuff thereof) and got none of these. By the time I played my first Possession (on a Voyage turn), I had two of these, and my opponent was like: "let's get the hell out of here."

ouch.  This is a nasty interaction.  How many possession & voyage turns could you link together.  The other player might as well make a sandwich,
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1710 on: July 20, 2022, 05:23:29 am »
+4

It's strong, but it's not particularly nasty (you're just getting lots of extra turns for yourself rather than doing damage to your opponent).

I've had Possession/Way of the Horse. Now that one is nasty.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1711 on: July 20, 2022, 05:19:05 pm »
0

It's strong, but it's not particularly nasty (you're just getting lots of extra turns for yourself rather than doing damage to your opponent).

I've had Possession/Way of the Horse. Now that one is nasty.

wow that would be nasty. tossing back your opponent's possessions oof
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1712 on: July 20, 2022, 05:28:51 pm »
+2

It's strong, but it's not particularly nasty (you're just getting lots of extra turns for yourself rather than doing damage to your opponent).

I've had Possession/Way of the Horse. Now that one is nasty.

wow that would be nasty. tossing back your opponent's possessions oof

Well that, plus literally all of their other Actions.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1713 on: July 21, 2022, 09:33:15 am »
0

Toil/Tactician.
You get to play your hand, buy something, keep 2, buy a toil, then get to play the tactician. You must have a card left in your hand to discard.

Toil/Prince
Ensures you have something to Prince using the toil. Save an action.

Quarry/Toil/Prince
Same as above except you can prince an action card worth up to 6.
Since quarry only reduces the cost in the buy phase, the cost of cards will be reduced by the time you buy the toil.

This same thing would work with Highway(s)/Prince or Highway/Toil/Prince - that is princing a card costing > 4
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1714 on: July 21, 2022, 09:45:06 am »
+1

KC/KC/Scheme/Scheme/X - best if X is + cards or +$

A killer guaranteed to get you a province or colony every turn and can't be stopped.
You get to keep the same 5 cards every hand.

The only way this doesn't work is if there is a hand size attack or a masquerade or some other card that makes you trash a card from your hand.
Even a hand size attack only slows it down.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1715 on: July 21, 2022, 12:12:47 pm »
0

Has Swap + Emporium been mentioned already?

Not that it was too hard to figure out but swap is pretty amazing when ur opponent starts tossing ruins at u...
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1716 on: July 21, 2022, 02:12:55 pm »
+1

KC/KC/Scheme/Scheme/X - best if X is + cards or +$

A killer guaranteed to get you a province or colony every turn and can't be stopped.
You get to keep the same 5 cards every hand.

The only way this doesn't work is if there is a hand size attack or a masquerade or some other card that makes you trash a card from your hand.
Even a hand size attack only slows it down.
This is an old trick, but it’s good enough that it’s worth mentioning again.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1717 on: July 21, 2022, 04:48:08 pm »
0

In a surprise to no one, Trail is very good w any workshop variant, as terminals become cantrips and cantrips become Villages. But specifically, Altar really shines with it.  Altar is great but its terminality and how it starts to prevent u from hitting 8 in some decks.  Trashing coppers/junk for 5's and getting a cantrip?  Plus sometimes u just trash trail and get the other side of the trail bonus, and a 5-cost card. Really really good. Like usually ignore gold kind of good. 
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1718 on: July 21, 2022, 05:40:11 pm »
+1

Like usually ignore gold kind of good.

So a completely unremarkable, indistinguishable from nothing kind of good.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1719 on: July 22, 2022, 02:28:00 am »
0

Like usually ignore gold kind of good.

So a completely unremarkable, indistinguishable from nothing kind of good.

Why?  there are a lot times you should optimally gain gold over Altar. On other boards it doesn't work so well.  On a lot of those boards trails presence creates a very positive interaction. 

Not every positive interaction has to be earth-shattering.

and just to be clear I mean ignore gold. as in like never buy it unless maybe viz a biz bandit etc. Not like get altar before gold or something.  And that is not always the case with the 6 cost cards.

A similar case could be made for getting terminal cards like Vault since trails discard turns it into a vaulting labratory.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2022, 02:33:42 am by Honkeyfresh »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1720 on: July 22, 2022, 08:57:44 am »
0

Why?  there are a lot times you should optimally gain gold over Altar.

Sure, if you already have an Altar. There aren't a lot of times you should optimally gain Gold over the $5 Actions in the kingdom.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1721 on: July 24, 2022, 12:10:07 pm »
+1

Collection / Way of the Horse
Found this in a game, but is way better with trashing or strong engine pieces. It can even create a golden deck. As long as you can draw your hand and have 3-5 Collections, you can do the following:

1.) Draw your hand
2.) Buy 2-5 cheap action cards ($2-$3) with Collection's buy and payload, gaining between 6-25 VP with it
3.) Use Way of the Horse to return them to the supply, while also helping you draw your entire hand
4.) Repeat

This is especially good with Chapel. Chapel, as one of not the best trasher, is fast enough to give you a hand of 4 Collections and a Silver pretty early into the game, where you can then buy 5 Chapels for 20 VP each turn. Since Way of the Horse returns cards to the Supply on your turn, people can't counter this by buying all the Chapels after you set up.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1722 on: July 27, 2022, 12:24:30 am »
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Not that this one requires a PHD to figure out but Toil and Souk is just bonkers.  as long as you have 2 coins avail you play every souk without the coins deducting your souk+7.  2 coins and 3 souks produces 12 coins.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1723 on: July 27, 2022, 09:35:30 am »
+4

Barbarian / Scrying Pool

This is vicious. Not only can you manipulate the top of your opponent's deck with Scrying Pool to get a perfect target, you can also turn their Scrying Pools into Curses.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1724 on: July 27, 2022, 11:35:32 am »
+1

Not that this one requires a PHD to figure out but Toil and Souk is just bonkers.  as long as you have 2 coins avail you play every souk without the coins deducting your souk+7.  2 coins and 3 souks produces 12 coins.

Capitalism + Souk is even stronger, not even needing the $2
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1725 on: July 27, 2022, 12:35:20 pm »
+1

Buying a Death Cart with a Cauldron in play = instant Cursing!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1726 on: July 27, 2022, 01:32:08 pm »
0

Catapult + Trail

It is interesting as Trail can be used as Familiar plus as defense against the handsize attack.

ooh this sounds fun.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1727 on: July 27, 2022, 01:33:07 pm »
+2

Buying a Death Cart with a Cauldron in play = instant Cursing!

I imagine if you drank from a cauldron and then saw a death cart coming your way leaving ruins in it's wake you'd be cursing too
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1728 on: July 27, 2022, 01:35:04 pm »
+1

Well, is the Curse worse than the two Ruins?
Collection + Death Cart is nice as endgame accelerator.

yeah with 2-4 collections in play this is $ af.  Also played in a Collection/populate deck.  Populate is already usually worth like 40 coins worth of toys.  Now it's worth that and 10-40 vp pts too...
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1729 on: July 27, 2022, 02:44:13 pm »
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Well, is the Curse worse than the two Ruins?
Collection + Death Cart is nice as endgame accelerator.

Your Death Cart can later trash those Ruins for +$5 each, so depending on how easy it is to line them up, it can be
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1730 on: August 03, 2022, 10:36:54 pm »
+2

Buying a Death Cart with a Cauldron in play = instant Cursing!

In a similar vein, Cauldron + Stonemason.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1731 on: August 06, 2022, 11:37:15 am »
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Trail plus virtually any trash for gain card. Some noteworthy I have actually encountered:

With each you of course get to play the trail and get a card and an action.

Scrap - pick 4 options
Salvager $4,
Bishop - 3 points
Trader - 4 silvers, (very useful with a Feodem)
Forge - trash 2 and get a Province
Expand - gain a card up to $7
Remake - gain a $5 card or 2

The more of these I discover, the more ridiculously potent I think this card is.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2022, 11:42:54 am by DaveColMD »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1732 on: August 07, 2022, 09:18:53 pm »
0

Any doppleganger card (captain, overlord etc) and way of the horse.  Get to use as way of the horse and then get card back.  Captain gets really bonkers here as your option is play any card or a just use it as a lab.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1733 on: August 07, 2022, 09:50:25 pm »
+2

This one is nasty af.  Messenger and Defiled Shrine.  Always has been a good combo on its own as you get the extra buy to buy the curse and get the messenger buy to add vp to the file.  Well, that option is still avail, but new errata adds a nasty hook.  You can also now just opt to gain the curse as the messenger gained card.  Since you gain yours first you take all the vp and get to hand out a curse to boot! Plus you get to spend all remaining coins on cards not just wasted like usual when u choose to buy the curse.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1734 on: August 07, 2022, 10:21:19 pm »
0

Trail plus virtually any trash for gain card. Some noteworthy I have actually encountered:

With each you of course get to play the trail and get a card and an action.

Scrap - pick 4 options
Salvager $4,
Bishop - 3 points
Trader - 4 silvers, (very useful with a Feodem)
Forge - trash 2 and get a Province
Expand - gain a card up to $7
Remake - gain a $5 card or 2

The more of these I discover, the more ridiculously potent I think this card is.

research is pretty great. get a village and 4 cards next turn
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Awaclus

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1735 on: August 07, 2022, 10:32:00 pm »
+3

I think we all know by now that Trail interacts with trashing. It, like, says it right on the card itself.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1736 on: August 07, 2022, 10:52:07 pm »
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I think we all know by now that Trail interacts with trashing. It, like, says it right on the card itself.

This is off topic.  This thread is to discuss Neat and potentially useful card interactions, not what you think that we all know.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1737 on: August 08, 2022, 01:44:50 am »
+1

I think we all know by now that Trail interacts with trashing. It, like, says it right on the card itself.

This is off topic.  This thread is to discuss Neat and potentially useful card interactions, not what you think that we all know.

This is off topic. The fact that a card does what it says is not neat.

Unless it is… in which case, Workshop pairs great with Silver.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1738 on: August 09, 2022, 03:10:25 am »
+1

Monkey and Black cat has a super nasty interaction.  Because you get a card when they draw the curse too, which also enables you to draw more black cats to add to the carnage.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1739 on: August 14, 2022, 12:23:55 pm »
+3

Tide pools and Guide/desert nomads. B/c you can choose to resolve the tide pools discard first, u can just use the guide to draw an entirely new hand. It's like putting everything on a credit card, but never having to actually pay it off.
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Awaclus

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1740 on: August 16, 2022, 06:12:01 pm »
+2

Buying Berserker when you have any Action in play activates Colonnade, since it puts itself into play while Colonnade's trigger window is still open. Then using the Berserker's on-play to gain a copy of the Action you already had in play activates it a second time, which gives you a free +4 VP on top of what would already be probably at least a decent move without the extra VP.

Then, unless someone gains Colonnade points some other way, the points are going to get split unevenly for at least a 4 VP difference.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1741 on: August 17, 2022, 12:27:34 am »
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Buying Berserker when you have any Action in play activates Colonnade, since it puts itself into play while Colonnade's trigger window is still open. Then using the Berserker's on-play to gain a copy of the Action you already had in play activates it a second time, which gives you a free +4 VP on top of what would already be probably at least a decent move without the extra VP.

Then, unless someone gains Colonnade points some other way, the points are going to get split unevenly for at least a 4 VP difference.

This is really good to know.  But isn't it s glitch?  Colonnade is supposed to only activate when you gain a card with it in play.  You gain the Berzerker before the berzerker plays, and thus don't have a berserker in play until after the gain? so how does it count itself for colonnade?
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Awaclus

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1742 on: August 17, 2022, 04:53:44 am »
+1

Buying Berserker when you have any Action in play activates Colonnade, since it puts itself into play while Colonnade's trigger window is still open. Then using the Berserker's on-play to gain a copy of the Action you already had in play activates it a second time, which gives you a free +4 VP on top of what would already be probably at least a decent move without the extra VP.

Then, unless someone gains Colonnade points some other way, the points are going to get split unevenly for at least a 4 VP difference.

This is really good to know.  But isn't it s glitch?  Colonnade is supposed to only activate when you gain a card with it in play.  You gain the Berzerker before the berzerker plays, and thus don't have a berserker in play until after the gain? so how does it count itself for colonnade?

It works exactly like it's supposed to.

  • 1. Gaining Berserker opens the "when you gain a Berserker" trigger window
  • 2. Then everything that triggers from "when you gain a Berserker" keeps triggering until the window closes, which it does when there are no more things that trigger from it:
    • 2a. Berserker itself triggers from "when you gain a Berserker" and puts it into play
    • 2b. then we check if there's anything else that can trigger from "when you gain a Berserker" and if there is, it triggers, otherwise the window closes
    • 2c. we see that Colonnade can now trigger from "when you gain a Berserker" because the Berserker is a copy of an Action you have in play
    • 2d. then we check if there's anything else that can trigger from "when you gain a Berserker", but now we've finished resolving everything so the window closes
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1743 on: August 17, 2022, 11:12:47 pm »
0

Garisson + populate = bonanza.  Obviously loading your deck with 7 or so action cards and then drawing about half of them the next turn has some advantages...
I had a 9 action board and with a garisson in play and a few good gainers (Governor, hill fort--always w/garisson too, falconer) drew me something like a 14 or 15 card card bonus on the next hand. 19/20 card hands turn out to play pretty well!
« Last Edit: August 17, 2022, 11:14:50 pm by Honkeyfresh »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1744 on: August 17, 2022, 11:23:40 pm »
0

Buying Berserker when you have any Action in play activates Colonnade, since it puts itself into play while Colonnade's trigger window is still open. Then using the Berserker's on-play to gain a copy of the Action you already had in play activates it a second time, which gives you a free +4 VP on top of what would already be probably at least a decent move without the extra VP.

Then, unless someone gains Colonnade points some other way, the points are going to get split unevenly for at least a 4 VP difference.

This is really good to know.  But isn't it s glitch?  Colonnade is supposed to only activate when you gain a card with it in play.  You gain the Berzerker before the berzerker plays, and thus don't have a berserker in play until after the gain? so how does it count itself for colonnade?

It works exactly like it's supposed to.

  • 1. Gaining Berserker opens the "when you gain a Berserker" trigger window
  • 2. Then everything that triggers from "when you gain a Berserker" keeps triggering until the window closes, which it does when there are no more things that trigger from it:
    • 2a. Berserker itself triggers from "when you gain a Berserker" and puts it into play
    • 2b. then we check if there's anything else that can trigger from "when you gain a Berserker" and if there is, it triggers, otherwise the window closes
    • 2c. we see that Colonnade can now trigger from "when you gain a Berserker" because the Berserker is a copy of an Action you have in play
    • 2d. then we check if there's anything else that can trigger from "when you gain a Berserker", but now we've finished resolving everything so the window closes

Everything from 2 on makes sense to me. But I just don't see why 1 is true.  I mean I believe you, but reading word by word it seems that the "when you gain a berzerker trigger window" is considered activated as by the wording of the card the berserker occurs first.
It says when you get this, play this, but since you never gain the second berserker I don't see how colonnade applies since it applies when you get another copy of a card in play, not itself when its only played once.
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Awaclus

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1745 on: August 17, 2022, 11:48:53 pm »
+1

It says when you get this, play this, but since you never gain the second berserker I don't see how colonnade applies since it applies when you get another copy of a card in play, not itself when its only played once.

It doesn't have to be another copy, it just has to be a copy. It's fine if the copy you're gaining and the copy you have in play are both the same copy.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1746 on: August 18, 2022, 04:30:04 pm »
0

It says when you get this, play this, but since you never gain the second berserker I don't see how colonnade applies since it applies when you get another copy of a card in play, not itself when its only played once.

It doesn't have to be another copy, it just has to be a copy. It's fine if the copy you're gaining and the copy you have in play are both the same copy.
I get it now.  Had to re-read the specific syntax of colonnade a little more but now it totally makes sense.  Thanks for the OG post and for explaining it 7 times, sometimes It takes a while to get through my thick skull....  This combo is actually pretty nasty, especially if you can spring it on someone who doesn't yet have a berserker and can pin them someway (voyage, island folk, seize the day etc).
« Last Edit: August 18, 2022, 07:06:48 pm by Honkeyfresh »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1747 on: August 21, 2022, 04:57:43 am »
+6

Bought a Captain, played it with City State to play a Camel, exiled a Captain, still considered to be in the "when you gain" moment, discarded Captain from exile.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1748 on: August 25, 2022, 12:06:49 am »
0

Sailor/souk, or church/souk, luckily i had both which was even better!

But sailor helps Souk a lot.  Its a + actions stop card, so you get cards out of your hand which souk likes.  It helps add coins and trash on your next turn, enabling more souk gaining, or trashing with the +2 on duration, or just adding coins to a souk in that hand by lessening hand size.

church is fairly obvious as its a + action card that can pull cards out of your hand to enable your souks, and also trash to lessen the next hand, since odds are you'll have a souk there too. Also helps if you need to collide + action cards and multiple souks.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2022, 12:08:43 am by Honkeyfresh »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1749 on: August 26, 2022, 07:12:58 am »
+6

Charm + Peddler/Prince: Charms can gain you multiple Provinces.
I just discovered this in a kingdom with Prince and Charm. Since you are using your Charms on the Prince, I think an appropriate name for this strategy is "Prince Charming".
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leesal

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1750 on: August 27, 2022, 02:57:24 am »
+2

I had a really interesting one with cathedral, lurker and cavalry. Trash the cavalry with cathedral and the use lurker to regain with the +2 cards +1 buy.

Also lackeys on villageless boards, and the interaction with swap, or way-of-the-horse!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1751 on: August 28, 2022, 10:28:19 am »
+1

I had a really interesting one with cathedral, lurker and cavalry. Trash the cavalry with cathedral and the use lurker to regain with the +2 cards +1 buy.

Also lackeys on villageless boards, and the interaction with swap, or way-of-the-horse!

Lurker and Cavalry work great together regardless. The draw allows you to convert a singleton lurker into a horse and a buy until the Cavalry pie runs down; with any village support it is a decent way to bootstrap an engine. Any other sort of trashing can then allow you to gain from the trash via Lurker and back out, generally netting you +2 cards plus whatever benefit (if any) you get from trashing. Lurker/Calvary/Junk dealer, for instance converts to two Labs and a Market.

In general, on-gain and on-trash effects make anything that gains or trashes much more powerful. The ability to create an infinite loop to get those on- abilities is naturally quite powerful. For instance, Villa/Collections gets crazy powerful with Way of the Butterfly/Horse or for a more complex example Groundskeeper/Swap/Inheritance also racks up near infinite VP.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1752 on: September 01, 2022, 12:57:01 am »
0

Not sure if defensive combos count here, but Horse traders is a great counter to archer.  The reaction makes you have 4 cards in hand ergo it nullifies the Archer attack.  Also is helpful against the warrior, but really shines vs the annoying AF archer.

Eta same with Diplomat.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2022, 12:10:53 pm by Honkeyfresh »
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allanfieldhouse

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1753 on: September 01, 2022, 02:45:41 pm »
+4

Not sure if defensive combos count here, but Horse traders is a great counter to archer.  The reaction makes you have 4 cards in hand ergo it nullifies the Archer attack.  Also is helpful against the warrior, but really shines vs the annoying AF archer.

Isn't that just the entire point of the Horse Traders reaction? To defend against handsize attacks? Or is there something about Archer I'm missing?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1754 on: September 01, 2022, 08:24:01 pm »
+3

Not sure if defensive combos count here, but Horse traders is a great counter to archer.  The reaction makes you have 4 cards in hand ergo it nullifies the Archer attack.  Also is helpful against the warrior, but really shines vs the annoying AF archer.

Isn't that just the entire point of the Horse Traders reaction? To defend against handsize attacks? Or is there something about Archer I'm missing?

I think he just means Horse Traders is specifically well-suited to combatting Archer

Contrast with Militia, where you still end up discarding a card. Horse Traders returns and draws you a card, so you have the opportunity to discard a bad card and draw a good one, but you might have already had all your good cards in hand and then draw a Copper. Against Archer, Horse Traders negates the attack entirely and draws you a card on your turn, putting you in strictly a better position than you would have been without Archer being played.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1755 on: September 01, 2022, 09:54:14 pm »
+2

Not sure if defensive combos count here, but Horse traders is a great counter to archer.  The reaction makes you have 4 cards in hand ergo it nullifies the Archer attack.  Also is helpful against the warrior, but really shines vs the annoying AF archer.

Isn't that just the entire point of the Horse Traders reaction? To defend against handsize attacks? Or is there something about Archer I'm missing?

I think he just means Horse Traders is specifically well-suited to combatting Archer

Contrast with Militia, where you still end up discarding a card. Horse Traders returns and draws you a card, so you have the opportunity to discard a bad card and draw a good one, but you might have already had all your good cards in hand and then draw a Copper. Against Archer, Horse Traders negates the attack entirely and draws you a card on your turn, putting you in strictly a better position than you would have been without Archer being played.

That part also holds true for Soldier, Urchin, and Clerk. It is even better with Archer than those, though, as Archer isn't just a discard-one - discard one isn't usually too bad because you can typically discard something of low value (in a game with no trashing, very likely to be a Copper or Estate, but even in a game with strong trashing, there'll be a least-good card that you can choose)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1756 on: September 02, 2022, 12:16:35 pm »
0

Not sure if defensive combos count here, but Horse traders is a great counter to archer.  The reaction makes you have 4 cards in hand ergo it nullifies the Archer attack.  Also is helpful against the warrior, but really shines vs the annoying AF archer.

Isn't that just the entire point of the Horse Traders reaction? To defend against handsize attacks? Or is there something about Archer I'm missing?
kinda.  Complete attack nullification only applies to handsize attacks that say "players with 5 cards in hand" as some still make you discard to 3 anyway (though you do get the horse trader back) and just pointing out that Archer is one of those cuz it's new.  Same thing would apply to Pillage for example.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1757 on: September 02, 2022, 12:17:42 pm »
0

Not sure if defensive combos count here, but Horse traders is a great counter to archer.  The reaction makes you have 4 cards in hand ergo it nullifies the Archer attack.  Also is helpful against the warrior, but really shines vs the annoying AF archer.

Isn't that just the entire point of the Horse Traders reaction? To defend against handsize attacks? Or is there something about Archer I'm missing?

I think he just means Horse Traders is specifically well-suited to combatting Archer

Contrast with Militia, where you still end up discarding a card. Horse Traders returns and draws you a card, so you have the opportunity to discard a bad card and draw a good one, but you might have already had all your good cards in hand and then draw a Copper. Against Archer, Horse Traders negates the attack entirely and draws you a card on your turn, putting you in strictly a better position than you would have been without Archer being played.

a much more eloquent explanation.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1758 on: September 02, 2022, 12:19:28 pm »
+1

Not sure if defensive combos count here, but Horse traders is a great counter to archer.  The reaction makes you have 4 cards in hand ergo it nullifies the Archer attack.  Also is helpful against the warrior, but really shines vs the annoying AF archer.

Isn't that just the entire point of the Horse Traders reaction? To defend against handsize attacks? Or is there something about Archer I'm missing?

I think he just means Horse Traders is specifically well-suited to combatting Archer

Contrast with Militia, where you still end up discarding a card. Horse Traders returns and draws you a card, so you have the opportunity to discard a bad card and draw a good one, but you might have already had all your good cards in hand and then draw a Copper. Against Archer, Horse Traders negates the attack entirely and draws you a card on your turn, putting you in strictly a better position than you would have been without Archer being played.

That part also holds true for Soldier, Urchin, and Clerk. It is even better with Archer than those, though, as Archer isn't just a discard-one - discard one isn't usually too bad because you can typically discard something of low value (in a game with no trashing, very likely to be a Copper or Estate, but even in a game with strong trashing, there'll be a least-good card that you can choose)

yeah it's not even like discarding a treasure or card over 2 cost.  Selective pruning can really take a mega turn and just ground it to a halt based on taking out one card.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1759 on: September 03, 2022, 01:32:45 pm »
0

Usually not a huge horse traders fan unless the deck really calls for it as it's kind of a handsize attack on yourself often. However, I just played in a deck with Way of the Turtle and horse traders just crushes in it, especially if you have any discard for benefits... in my case, it was Tunnel and that combo, it's just sick.  Skip the horse traders play, as often the 3 coins are usually gained by tossing 1 or 2 coins away anyway.  Then next turn you get to discard from a full 5 card hand (or more if you set it up to be bigger w/ your deck) and you can just keep turtling it until you get the right hand to play it... either one where you need the coins/buy/or discard effect to really supercharge a hand.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1760 on: September 06, 2022, 08:41:02 pm »
0

This one is really OP.  But New Donate and Trail is off the chain.  Because under the new donate you trash all the cards at the start of your turn, so load up on trails and buy a bunch of engine parts, then trash all the trails for a pre-turn Lab a piece.  Just bonkers, especially on boards that lack +draw and actions. Then use one of the buys to buy donate at the end of your turn to rinse and repeat.  Even better if there are cursers, looters or TFB.  If you could play a Priest as way of the turtle or royal galley or something this could be super bonkers.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2022, 11:24:18 am by Honkeyfresh »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1761 on: September 07, 2022, 09:59:28 am »
+1

This one is really OP.  But New Donate and Trail is off the chain.  Because under the new donate you trash all the cards at the start of your turn, so load up on trails and buy a bunch of engine parts, then trash all the trails for a pre-turn Lab a piece.  Just bonkers, especially on boards that lack +draw and actions. Then use one of the buys to buy donate at the end of your turn to rinse and repeat.

Wouldn't the draw happen during the middle of Donate, so you'd have an empty deck at that point?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1762 on: September 07, 2022, 11:19:19 am »
0

This one is really OP.  But New Donate and Trail is off the chain.  Because under the new donate you trash all the cards at the start of your turn, so load up on trails and buy a bunch of engine parts, then trash all the trails for a pre-turn Lab a piece.  Just bonkers, especially on boards that lack +draw and actions. Then use one of the buys to buy donate at the end of your turn to rinse and repeat.

Wouldn't the draw happen during the middle of Donate, so you'd have an empty deck at that point?

nope.  I thought it would play as you did, but I saw it in practice. After a careful parsing of the instructions, it makes sense. First, put cards in your hand.  Trash them resulting in the trails being played and thus drawing you cards and action, then shuffle "the rest" in your deck which I guess refers to all the cards not already in your hand. Since it never tells you to discard your deck again, and just says Draw 5 cards those go in addition to the ones you already have, and you keep all + actions, and possibly coins/buys, etc depending on the deck.

I think the place this could be cleaned up is just to define "the rest" as all the cards in your deck, not just the ones still in your discard pile.  Or just rephrase "the rest" as all cards, as this combo is way op.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2022, 11:21:20 am by Honkeyfresh »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1763 on: September 07, 2022, 11:23:51 am »
0

But you don't have anything to draw at that point. All of your cards are in your hand, so you trash/play a Trail and draw 0 cards from your empty deck/discard. You'll still get the extra action of course.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1764 on: September 07, 2022, 11:26:50 am »
0

But you don't have anything to draw at that point. All of your cards are in your hand, so you trash/play a Trail and draw 0 cards from your empty deck/discard. You'll still get the extra action of course.

Pretty sure it went the other way but as much as I smoke it's possible that the massive draw just came from actions, but to the best of my recollection it did give cards too.  I am sure someone can simulate this vs a bot to double-check it though.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1765 on: September 07, 2022, 11:30:47 am »
0

nope.  I thought it would play as you did, but I saw it in practice. After a careful parsing of the instructions, it makes sense. First, put cards in your hand.  Trash them resulting in the trails being played and thus drawing you cards and action, then shuffle "the rest" in your deck which I guess refers to all the cards not already in your hand. Since it never tells you to discard your deck again, and just says Draw 5 cards those go in addition to the ones you already have, and you keep all + actions, and possibly coins/buys, etc depending on the deck.

That's not how it works. This is how it works:

1. First, put all the cards in your hand.
2. Trash them resulting in the Trails being played, and thus drawing nothing because you already have all the cards in your hand, because you literally just put them all there a second ago in step 1.
3. Then you shuffle "the rest" in your deck, which refers to the cards in your hand that you didn't trash. If it did refer to all the cards not already in your hand, it would refer to no cards because every card is already in your hand, and Donate would just always leave you with your entire deck in hand on its own regardless of Trail.

You do indeed keep the +action you get from Trail, but that's just the same interaction it has with every trasher in the game, as it says right on the card itself.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1766 on: September 07, 2022, 12:29:31 pm »
0

Ok that makes better sense.  Still pretty massive in a game where actions are lacking and good terminal draw etc. Must've just been the massive onslaught from the 6 action turns that made it seem so big.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2022, 12:35:53 pm by Honkeyfresh »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1767 on: October 03, 2022, 07:59:56 pm »
+6

Oh hey here's a Trail interaction that is actually specific to the card-shaped thing it's interacting with, and also confusing enough that it kind of needs a short guide.

Trail + Way of the Mole

The normal version:
Step 1: have Trail and any other action in your hand
Step 2: play the other action as Way of the Mole, discarding Trail alongside the rest of your hand
Step 3: you now have 0 cards in hand, use Trail's reaction to play it as Way of the Mole to draw 3 cards
Step 4: you now draw 3 cards from the original Way of the Mole, getting you to 6 cards (and one more action than you started with)

The version on steroids:
Step 1: have at least two Trails and any other action in your hand
Step 2: play the other action as Way of the Mole, discarding two Trails alongside the rest of your hand
Step 3: you now have 0 cards in hand, use Trail's reaction to play it as Way of the Mole to draw 3 cards, while the other Trail reaction is still unresolved
Step 4: you get lucky and one of the 3 cards you drew is another Trail
Step 5: you resolve the other Trail reaction to play it as Way of the Mole to discard your hand again and react with the Trail you were lucky enough to draw
Step 6: you now have 0 cards in hand, use Trail's reaction to play it as Way of the Mole to draw 3 cards
Step 7: you now draw 3 cards from the Way of the Mole from step 5
Step 8: you now draw 3 cards from the original Way of the Mole, getting you to 9 cards (and three more actions than you started with)

Since steps 4-6 of the steroid version are in fact equivalent to steps 1-3 of the normal version (with an extra unresolved +3 cards at the end), and you can extend the normal version into the steroids version by having an extra Trail in your hand and drawing an extra Trail with the topmost +3 cards after discarding, every two extra Trails you have in your deck can increase the maximum handsize you can get this way by 3, as long as your draws are good enough. Conveniently it also doesn't matter which specific hands the extra Trails are in, as long as they're in some of them before the chain ends, and the more Trails you have, the more likely you are to keep drawing more where it's required.

So basically with Trail and Way of the Mole in the kingdom, it is possible to build a deck-drawing engine without any other draw or +actions.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1768 on: October 04, 2022, 10:28:48 am »
+3

Applies equally to Village Green + Way of the Mole (just that people normally use VG as a normal village component)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1769 on: October 04, 2022, 11:08:59 am »
0

Applies equally to Village Green + Way of the Mole (just that people normally use VG as a normal village component)

It works with Weaver too, although it's arguably not as good since it doesn't draw cards when played without the Mole.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1770 on: October 05, 2022, 03:37:27 pm »
0

Applies equally to Village Green + Way of the Mole (just that people normally use VG as a normal village component)

It works with Weaver too, although it's arguably not as good since it doesn't draw cards when played without the Mole.

weaver also reacts to scavenger, which I found weird because I am pretty sure that other discard cards like tunnel don't react to Scavenger.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1771 on: October 06, 2022, 02:03:42 pm »
+2

weaver also reacts to scavenger, which I found weird because I am pretty sure that other discard cards like tunnel don't react to Scavenger.

It shouldn't... "put your deck into your discard pile" is not "discarding".
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1772 on: October 06, 2022, 02:53:13 pm »
+1

weaver also reacts to scavenger, which I found weird because I am pretty sure that other discard cards like tunnel don't react to Scavenger.

It shouldn't... "put your deck into your discard pile" is not "discarding".

Honk, does Awaclus need to go stalk your Dominion Online history again?
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1773 on: October 17, 2022, 09:04:26 am »
+2

In the spirit of Trail combos, I propose

Trail + Way of the Rat

It's not usually great to play a Trail when you gain it in the buy phase. With WotR, you can turn any excess Treasure into extra Trails.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1774 on: October 25, 2022, 05:02:29 am »
+7

Farmland + Wish

The new version of Farmland lets you Wish for a Province! Just gain Farmland and use its on-gain effect on itself.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1775 on: October 30, 2022, 04:54:53 pm »
+4

Way of the Turtle + Conspirators is great. Just Turtle two Actions, and your Conspirators are automatically activated at the start of each turn, since doing Turtle every turn on an Action still counts as an Action. So, just Turtle away two cheap Actions and keep Turtling them every turn
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1776 on: November 05, 2022, 07:04:38 pm »
+2

merchant guild + stampede

Depends a bit on the board, but the plan goes something like this:

1. Get a merchant guild
2. Buy stampede with merchant guild in play
3. Play the horses to hopefully draw the merchant guild, use the coffers to hopefully buy multiple stampedes. Repeat
4. At some point, get another merchant guild (and a source of +actions to play them both), doubling the coffers you get from the stampedes
5. On the turn before you have enough coffers to empty the provinces, get as much +buy as you need
6. On your last turn, you can finally put more than 5 cards in play, since you don't need to stampede anymore

On some boards, there will be a faster engine, but if not, this combo can pretty much always work. It doesn't need trashing or other draw (and often can't even play them much anyway). All it needs is some source of +actions. Even without that, it can still do some things, but it needs the multiple merchant guilds to really explode.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1777 on: November 07, 2022, 06:00:51 pm »
+2

I'm not sure if this has already been brought up, but Trail + Way of the Mouse Workshop is absolutely nuts. The first player that hits $4 can get all 10 trails. In many instances, this is instant win.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1778 on: November 07, 2022, 06:59:52 pm »
0

For that matter, Trail + Way of the Butterfly lets you gain $5 cards as though they cost $4.  For example, you can use a Workshop variant to gain Trail, then use Trail's reaction to play it and apply Butterfly to return it for a Laboratory. 

This also applies to Trails gained by Way of the Butterfly itself, letting you "double-upgrade" $3 Action cards.  For example, you can play a Horse from your hand, apply Butterfly to return it and gain a Trail, play the Trail using its reaction, and apply Butterfly to return it and gain a Laboratory.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1779 on: November 07, 2022, 09:01:19 pm »
+1

For that matter, Trail + Way of the Butterfly lets you gain $5 cards as though they cost $4.  For example, you can use a Workshop variant to gain Trail, then use Trail's reaction to play it and apply Butterfly to return it for a Laboratory. 

This also applies to Trails gained by Way of the Butterfly itself, letting you "double-upgrade" $3 Action cards.  For example, you can play a Horse from your hand, apply Butterfly to return it and gain a Trail, play the Trail using its reaction, and apply Butterfly to return it and gain a Laboratory.

Villa + Way of the Butterfly works the same way
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1780 on: November 08, 2022, 11:46:37 pm »
+1

Citadel + Way of the Frog can be really strong as it allows you to play a single Action card non-terminally at the start of every turn, as long as you choose Frog for one of the two plays, similar to Prince, although with a few obvious differences
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1781 on: November 14, 2022, 12:03:52 pm »
+1

Citadel + Way of the Frog can be really strong as it allows you to play a single Action card non-terminally at the start of every turn, as long as you choose Frog for one of the two plays, similar to Prince, although with a few obvious differences

Citadel + Way of the Turtle does the same, without taking up a space in your hand. (Also, if you play it using WotT the first time, you can play it normally without it being in play, which can matter in some rare cases--e.g. Imp, Conclave).
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1782 on: December 15, 2022, 03:09:27 pm »
+4

There are many ways to cheat a Siren into your deck without trashing an Action, but Sailor + Siren is pretty unique in that not only does it let you cheat a Siren, it's an entire strong strategy on its own: the fact that Sailor trashes before Siren draws gives you powerful hands to hit $8 (and beyond), the fact that Sailor gives dollars contributes to that as well, and the fact that Sailor thins your deck means that your deck doesn't really even get bloated by the Provinces until you have gotten rid of most of your starting cards (if you trash a Copper and buy a Province, your deck stays the same size, and that is a pretty typical turn to have).

Baseline strategy assuming you aren't getting contested (almost certainly not optimal, but it is a starting point): Just open Sailor/Silver, buy a Siren when you draw Sailor and use Sailor on it before it trashes itself, buy another Sailor with the ridiculously high-$ hand you will have after that as silly as it feels to do so, buy a second Siren when you get the chance, and then buy Province if you can and something to help your economy (like Gold or more Sailors) otherwise. 5/2 is a bummer but Sailor/nothing is probably the best opening there. Many things that help you hit $3P for Familiar are also useful here, because the scenario is similar in the sense that you're trying to connect three dollars with a specific $4 card, although Sailor can be drawn dead.

If you draw $3 with Sailor on turn 3-4, you can probably get to 4-5 Provinces in about 11-12 turns while dealing out almost all the Curses and being immune to discard attacks.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1783 on: December 15, 2022, 06:36:21 pm »
+7

Spell Scroll + Treasurer -- instantly empties the Treasurer pile and gives you $30.

Spell Scroll trashes itself to gain & play a Treasurer, which can pull the Spell Scroll back out of the trash into your hand (and net $3 each time). Repeat until the Treasurer pile is empty.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1784 on: December 15, 2022, 07:23:04 pm »
0

Spell Scroll + Treasurer -- instantly empties the Treasurer pile and gives you $30.

Spell Scroll trashes itself to gain & play a Treasurer, which can pull the Spell Scroll back out of the trash into your hand (and net $3 each time). Repeat until the Treasurer pile is empty.

You'd need a bunch of extra Actions to make that work though. Treasurer doesn't play the card it gains and Spell Scroll is terminal
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1785 on: December 15, 2022, 07:30:24 pm »
+2

Spell Scroll + Treasurer -- instantly empties the Treasurer pile and gives you $30.

Spell Scroll trashes itself to gain & play a Treasurer, which can pull the Spell Scroll back out of the trash into your hand (and net $3 each time). Repeat until the Treasurer pile is empty.

You'd need a bunch of extra Actions to make that work though. Treasurer doesn't play the card it gains and Spell Scroll is terminal

Spell Scroll is a Treasure; you don't need an Action to play it.
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mxdata

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1786 on: December 15, 2022, 07:39:46 pm »
0

Spell Scroll + Treasurer -- instantly empties the Treasurer pile and gives you $30.

Spell Scroll trashes itself to gain & play a Treasurer, which can pull the Spell Scroll back out of the trash into your hand (and net $3 each time). Repeat until the Treasurer pile is empty.

You'd need a bunch of extra Actions to make that work though. Treasurer doesn't play the card it gains and Spell Scroll is terminal

Spell Scroll is a Treasure; you don't need an Action to play it.

Oh, right. Momentarily forgot it was both an Action and a Treasure
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1787 on: December 15, 2022, 11:30:59 pm »
+3

Extra turns can be a good way to get your Landing Parties back into play. I had a game with Outpost and Landing Party, and since you often can't do much with an Outpost turn, you're often not losing much going straight into your Buy phase. Voyage would probably be an even better card to have with that
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1788 on: December 15, 2022, 11:35:05 pm »
+1

Buying a Mint with one or more Jeweled Eggs in play. Easy way to get a Loot early on!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1789 on: December 17, 2022, 12:06:18 am »
0

I didn't find this, but I had a game where my opponent used it: Taskmaster + Swap, as long as there's at least one other $5 action card available - you can simply Swap out one $5 for another, and since Swap uses "gain" rather than "Exchange", that keeps Taskmaster in play.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1790 on: December 17, 2022, 10:02:15 pm »
0

So swamp shacks and black market was really fun.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1791 on: December 18, 2022, 03:02:06 pm »
0

Hasty Tormenter is interesting. If you have no Duration cards in play, it's almost like getting an on-gain Imp (just delayed one turn from the usual on-gain effects). If there are Duration cards in play, it's like an on-gain Hexing
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1792 on: December 18, 2022, 09:14:18 pm »
+1

Kinda obvious but Trickster/Encampment works out well
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1793 on: December 18, 2022, 10:11:13 pm »
+1

Siren + Band of Misfits is well worth it, even in the rare case that that's literally the only card that Band of Misfits can copy; the pile isn't going to get emptied in most cases, so you've just got a $5 Siren.

Obviously having more flexibility on your band is better, but $5 for a curser that draws you to 8 next turn is still a good deal.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1794 on: December 19, 2022, 07:47:15 am »
+10

Shaman forces a player to gain a card on their turn; so it can trigger blockade. In particular, if you blockade a curse, and ensure the trash consists of exactly a curse, you can make the next player gain all the curses!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1795 on: December 19, 2022, 01:58:23 pm »
+1

King's Cache + Tools is ridiculous, since you can obviously use the Tools on the King's Cache itself, meaning that whichever player is able to hit $7 first can easily end up getting most of the King's Caches
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1796 on: December 19, 2022, 03:25:19 pm »
+2

Remake + Jeweled Egg → Remake Jeweled Eggs to get Loot and some $3 card, and then later remake the Loot into Provinces
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1797 on: December 20, 2022, 02:08:27 am »
0

Fated is great with cards that you want to play multiple copies of. I had a game with Fated on the Idol pile - the Curse pile ran out pretty fast in that game!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1798 on: December 20, 2022, 03:00:36 am »
+3

Shaman weakens most trashing attacks, but Corsair actually becomes stronger with Shaman in the game - you can get the cards Corsair trashes
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1799 on: December 20, 2022, 05:20:56 pm »
+1

Reckless Crew
This thing does NOT have to return to the supply. Like at all.

Nearby Peddler
Dear programmers of Dominion Online, please prevent this one from popping up. (I've not encountered this one, but I dread the day I will)

First Mate + Nonterminal trasher
Trash stuff, then draw back to make up for the reduced handsize. First Maid can be quite nuts for sure.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1800 on: December 20, 2022, 08:10:04 pm »
0

Reckless Crew
This thing does NOT have to return to the supply. Like at all.

Nearby Peddler
Dear programmers of Dominion Online, please prevent this one from popping up. (I've not encountered this one, but I dread the day I will)

First Mate + Nonterminal trasher
Trash stuff, then draw back to make up for the reduced handsize. First Maid can be quite nuts for sure.

There's no rule that wold prevent Peddler from getting Nearby, so it feels like it would be arbitrary to block that combo ... on the other hand, yeah, with four or more Action cards in play, that's an instant emptying of the pile. In principle you could do the same with Nearby Wayfarer as long as you have at least one other source of +buy - buy a single Copper, then empty out the Wayfarer pile. Of course, that would only be sensible if you have a deck that can support that many terminals (or the +Action adventure token on the Wayfarer pile), or are wanting to empty out a third pile at the end of the game
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1801 on: December 21, 2022, 12:06:05 am »
+2

Shaman is really annoying.  That said Enlarge is a nice complement to it.  Trash a good card with enlarge before you gain your card, and then you avoid having to grab from the conveyor belt of garbage that is the Shaman train and get a nice +2 card to boot. Plus then your opponent has to take the crap you were avoiding.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1802 on: December 21, 2022, 02:12:21 am »
+1

Just realized that since Flagship doesn't say anything about "on your turn", it can trigger on Reactions that play themselves, such as Caravan Guard or Black Cat
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1803 on: December 21, 2022, 06:07:40 am »
+4

Mandarin + Endless Chalice, which is the sort of thing that makes you realize why Mandarin is a deprecated card.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1804 on: December 25, 2022, 12:40:50 am »
+3

Had Emissary with League of Shopkeepers for the first time. Both are meh on their own but this is a legitimate combo --especially with a more reliable liaison to build 10 favor
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1805 on: January 07, 2023, 08:56:19 am »
+7

Best pairing I could think of for each Trait:

  • Cheap Seer - Seer is a great card to gain lots of, which is much easier at $4 (e.g. with Workshop variants), and now it can draw itself
  • Cursed Tiara - Would be Watchtower but Watchtower and Cursed (something else) is likely as good or better. Best Cursed card with Watchtower on the board is probably King's Cache. Tiara wouldn't be far behind it. Even on its own once you have a Tiara in play you can buy cursed Tiaras to topdeck a Tiara and the Loot (or do that multiple times with Tiara and probably the Loot's +buy) and continue the cycle. Shame about the Curses though.
  • Fated Augurs - Play a Herb Gatherer every turn (hopefully to good effect), and as you do that make the bottom decking with Sibyl more like discarding junk. Makes it easier enough to throw Sorcerers into the mix.
  • Fawning Island Shepherd- With Fawning Island, Provinces come with a card that can take it out of circulation while keeping the points. Great for golden decks. Sanctuary would also do this just as well but giving Island the nod for "most improved (and the 2 bonus VP)".
     Edit: Also remembered Rebuild still exists. If you're playing Rebuild, more free Rebuilds as you're doing the thing is very powerful.
    Edit 2: Forgot Shepherd and agree with grrgrrgrr to give it the nod. A great card to appear in your deck as soon as you start greening. Same with other sifters (especially Forum) and Groundskeeper
  • Friendly Village Green Groundskeeper - EDIT: Village Green doesn't play on discard during Clean Up as grrgrrgrr pointed out. Groundskeeper works well as a card you want lots of eventually where the biggest pain is buying them, so the cloning of Friendly works great.
  • Hasty Experiment - For your next shuffle, instead of being a net +2 cards, it's a net +4 Cards and +3 Actions and guaranteed to be at the start of your next turn.
  • Inherited Altar - Less sure about this one. Trashing is great at the opening and Altar helps you get lots of 5s quickly. Maybe inherited Chapel is better though - early trashing is amazing.
  • Inspiring Black Market Cultist - Edit: As mxdata points out, you have plenty of chances to hit a card with chaining Cultists. If you're both going for cultist, even playing Ruins non terminally can be an advantage. Black Market has plenty of chances to be non terminal but isn't as spammable and would rather some cheap non terminal or terminal draw in the kingdom is Inspiring instead.
  • Nearby Peddler - Spammable and not too hard to get to $0 for an instant Pileout. Can also be done with Nearby Wayfarers, but Peddler gets the nod for being non-terminal.
  • Patient Smithy - Or any Terminal Draw. Patient cards can't be drawn dead, so now Terminal Draw cards are spammable.
  • Pious Experiment - Buy in the opening with your $3 hand to trash your estates, and a nice cheap double trasher in general. Experiment has the edge over Port due to cost, usefulness in the opening, and the pile not running out.
  • Reckless Scheme or Merchant Camp  - Reckless Scheme because it's a Lost City that topdecks itself and still does the job of Scheme. Insanely powerful card. 4 Reckless Merchant Camps and you can buy a province every turn - though it's vulnerable to Militia and friends and a lot of redundant +Actions.
  • Rich Sauna - Came to mind as instead of opening Silver/Sauna, you can open Rich Sauna and something else. Rich Merchant is also nice.
  • Shy Faithful Hound - A Hireling, then double Hireling you can open with that doesn't cost an Action to play (and softens discard attacks). Shy Village Green is also nice as a spammable card with no downside to discarding.
  • Tireless Mystic - Easy guessing and stacking. Vassal also works great with Tireless cards but Tireless Vassals might end in dud turns or limit what else you can play.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2023, 10:11:55 pm by NoMoreFun »
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mxdata

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1806 on: January 08, 2023, 01:27:29 pm »
+2

Scrounge + Peaceful Cult → Guaranteed $5 in opening. Trash an Estate with PC at the start of your buy phase, then use Scrounge to get it back with a $5, effectively canceling out PC's trashing, but getting you a $5 in exchange, which is usually well worth it, in effect, turning a 3/4 opening into a 5/4 opening
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1807 on: January 08, 2023, 03:01:59 pm »
+4

Inspiring Cultist: Each of your chained Cultists can Inspire another Action card - and the best part is that the Inspiring happens after all the chained Cultists have drawn, increasing the likelihood of having useful Action cards in hand. Of course, it's somewhat limited by the fact that Inspire can only work with Action cards that don't already have a copy in play, but it can still be very strong, especially if you have a good variety of Action cards (or one-shots like Experiment)

Also, that combination of names is thematically interesting
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1808 on: January 09, 2023, 01:01:20 am »
+3

Quote
Inspiring Cultist ... it's somewhat limited by the fact that Inspire can only work with Action cards that don't already have a copy in play, but it can still be very strong, especially if you have a good variety of Action cards
Sweet -- a way to play all my Ruins! ;)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1809 on: January 12, 2023, 06:56:31 pm »
0

Pendant/Any Loot has an alright synergy.   8)

I think the most I have gotten was an 8-coin pendant.  I can only imagine how big this would get if you had storyteller in the kingdom.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1810 on: January 15, 2023, 11:41:34 pm »
+3

Buy Jeweled Eggs with Watchtower in hand, put a Loot on deck.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1811 on: January 18, 2023, 04:07:59 am »
+3

Cards with similar names don't tend to synergize well...

except for DeLivery!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1812 on: January 18, 2023, 11:08:52 am »
+1

Trickster and any loot is a great combo. But with Prize Goat is an especially amazing combo.  dish a curse and then keep the prize goat as a gold that just lies in wait to eat the curses that they dished you.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2023, 11:10:09 am by Honkeyfresh »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1813 on: January 19, 2023, 12:44:09 pm »
+1

Spell Scroll + Treasurer -- instantly empties the Treasurer pile and gives you $30.

Spell Scroll trashes itself to gain & play a Treasurer, which can pull the Spell Scroll back out of the trash into your hand (and net $3 each time). Repeat until the Treasurer pile is empty.

Lurker is a more fun version - gain 10 Lurkers. Spend the rest of the game, Lurking back the scroll after every play (as only you have Lurkers). You can also mass regain Lurkers if you have any TfB to feed them into (e.g. Forge a province, play Scroll, and then gain back 4 lurkers and the Scroll). If you have the draw/actions to support it, You can also gain 10 cards per shuffle via Lurking.

Something like Apprentice/Jeweled Egg to thin/gain Scroll. (Scroll -> gain Lurk -> gain scroll) x 10. Then Scroll -> Gain Apprenctice -> Lurk Scroll -> Apprentice on themselves for 5 cards, and punch through.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2023, 12:59:05 pm by jomini »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1814 on: January 20, 2023, 03:47:24 pm »
0

Spell Scroll + Treasurer -- instantly empties the Treasurer pile and gives you $30.

Spell Scroll trashes itself to gain & play a Treasurer, which can pull the Spell Scroll back out of the trash into your hand (and net $3 each time). Repeat until the Treasurer pile is empty.

Lurker is a more fun version - gain 10 Lurkers. Spend the rest of the game, Lurking back the scroll after every play (as only you have Lurkers). You can also mass regain Lurkers if you have any TfB to feed them into (e.g. Forge a province, play Scroll, and then gain back 4 lurkers and the Scroll). If you have the draw/actions to support it, You can also gain 10 cards per shuffle via Lurking.

Something like Apprentice/Jeweled Egg to thin/gain Scroll. (Scroll -> gain Lurk -> gain scroll) x 10. Then Scroll -> Gain Apprenctice -> Lurk Scroll -> Apprentice on themselves for 5 cards, and punch through.

This is awesome....  8)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1815 on: January 20, 2023, 07:05:09 pm »
+1

Shaman is really annoying.  That said Enlarge is a nice complement to it.  Trash a good card with enlarge before you gain your card, and then you avoid having to grab from the conveyor belt of garbage that is the Shaman train and get a nice +2 card to boot. Plus then your opponent has to take the crap you were avoiding.

Cabin Boy does well with this too. basically a free duration rather than getting the junk.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1816 on: January 21, 2023, 02:52:51 pm »
+3

Best pairing I could think of for each Trait:
I agree with most but the following:

  • Fawning Island - Provinces come with a card that can take it out of circulation while keeping the points. Great for golden decks. Sanctuary would also do this just as well but giving Island the nod for "most improved (and the 2 bonus VP)".
     Edit: Also remembered Rebuild still exists. If you're playing Rebuild, more free Rebuilds as you're doing the thing is very powerful.
Island is obviously NOT the best card to pair it with, but it definitely gets nod for most improved as you said. Rebuild indeed is pretty obscene here. But I think the crown goes to Shepherd.

  • Friendly Village Green - You still get to meaningfully play it and gain another, great for a spammable card.
This interaction straight up does not work, due to Friendly activating in the Clean up phase. It is still fairly decent though. The best one is probably Groundskeeper.

  • Inspiring Black Market - Lots of chances to be non terminal. Knights would also be good.
Eh, no. An Inspiring card likes Black Market on the board, but Inspiring on Black Market is obviously not that great. I think the winner is a Smithy variant, that gets the potiential to become a superlab. (it is nice on Knight though, as it prevents Knight collisions)
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1817 on: January 22, 2023, 08:54:12 pm »
+1

Eh, no. An Inspiring card likes Black Market on the board, but Inspiring on Black Market is obviously not that great. I think the winner is a Smithy variant, that gets the potiential to become a superlab. (it is nice on Knight though, as it prevents Knight collisions)

I recently played with Inspiring Torturer.  Just a brutal combo with any +actions around.  I think this may get the nod over Cultist as the ruins are so much better than the curses/discards that torturer brings to bear especially since it is easy to chain both of them with Inspiring.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2023, 09:02:42 pm by Honkeyfresh »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1818 on: January 26, 2023, 06:49:00 pm »
0

Silver Mine and Ducat have really nice synergy.  Swapping a ducat for copper is great, but you often lack the buy to grab them.  So at the beginning it helps you trash your deck, or use Silver Mine to gain silvers to build coin economy.  In the end game adding a coffer/buy out of thin air can be a really nice thing too.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1819 on: January 27, 2023, 01:28:22 am »
+1

Delivery will allow you to gain a Siren without trashing a card as the delivery can be resolved before the trashing.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1820 on: March 22, 2023, 10:59:04 pm »
0

Taskmaster and Souk is just nasty.  As long as you keep getting souks you just stack the taskmaster, thus allowing you to play all the souks you have amassed since you have likely thinned all the coppers and estates out of your deck by then anyway.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1821 on: March 27, 2023, 03:32:42 am »
+2

Mandarin + Endless Chalice, which is the sort of thing that makes you realize why Mandarin is a deprecated card.

If anything, I think it's the other way around, Endless Chalice exists because Mandarin was removed.

But since that's just a two-card combo, I actually don't think Mandarin would have stopped Donald X. from making Endless Chalice. But I do think that the influx of Treasure Durations is tied to the fact that he decided to remove (almost) all possibilities of moving them from play.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1822 on: March 27, 2023, 05:01:43 am »
+1

Mandarin + Endless Chalice, which is the sort of thing that makes you realize why Mandarin is a deprecated card.

If anything, I think it's the other way around, Endless Chalice exists because Mandarin was removed.

But since that's just a two-card combo, I actually don't think Mandarin would have stopped Donald X. from making Endless Chalice. But I do think that the influx of Treasure Durations is tied to the fact that he decided to remove (almost) all possibilities of moving them from play.
Yeah, if Mandarin had not been removed it would have been errata'd like Mint to not work on Durations. Problem solved.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1823 on: March 27, 2023, 10:11:24 am »
0

Would have been neat - and I think better for the game - if Durations being prematurely removed from play canceled their effects. Just a quick extra rulebook note that cards set aside with a cancelled Duration are discarded would cover 90% of the uncertainty about what happens with things like Haven.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1824 on: March 27, 2023, 10:40:33 am »
+7

Would have been neat - and I think better for the game - if Durations being prematurely removed from play canceled their effects. Just a quick extra rulebook note that cards set aside with a cancelled Duration are discarded would cover 90% of the uncertainty about what happens with things like Haven.

I feel the exact opposite. I think tracking is a nice-to-have but not a necessity, and I don't like all the extra effort that's gone into trying to remove every instance of an effect happening without it being physically tracked, such as Procession errata.

There are already so many thing in the game that require you to remember things for varying lengths of time; it's unavoidable. I think it's much easier to remember "last turn I played a Wharf that's no longer in play, so I draw 2 cards at the start of my turn" than it is to remember which choices you made for a Pawn you played at the start of a long turn that involved playing 10 action cards and drawing your deck.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2023, 12:42:00 pm by GendoIkari »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1825 on: March 28, 2023, 05:31:27 pm »
+1

Gainer + Trail + Way of the Horse

This combination turns all your gainers into Laboratories. I had Workshop in my game, so the play went like this:
Workshop for a Trail, which plays itself as Way of the Horse for +2 Cards, +1 Action.

Some of the other gainers are way better too. Ironworks turns into Lost City. Groom turns into Lab + gain a Horse.

The really nice thing about this combo over other similar Trail setups is that you're returning the Trail back to its pile each time, so this ability doesn't run out after 10 uses.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1826 on: March 28, 2023, 06:14:51 pm »
+1

The purpose of this thread is to highlight neat little interactions or synergies between two cards
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1827 on: March 31, 2023, 10:40:39 am »
+3

"gainer" is a big enough category of cards that Gainer + Trail + Way of the Horse seems potentially useful.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1828 on: March 31, 2023, 11:35:29 am »
+1

"gainer" is a big enough category of cards that Gainer + Trail + Way of the Horse seems potentially useful.

That probably would have been true years ago, but as far as I'm concerned, it's starting to get a little questionable how useful even specific card + specific card combos are at this point. Not even just because they're rare (which they are), but because there's so many of them that you can't reasonably expect to memorize all of them — in other words, it is very frequently the case that you are playing a game that has a card interaction that nobody has posted about on the forum before, so nowadays you kind of just have to have the ability to spot those on the fly instead of relying on memorization.

In my opinion, memorization still makes sense for 2-card combos that work because of a non-obvious rules interaction (e.g. Trail + Way of the Mole) or because of a highly specific non-obvious way in which the thing just works out conveniently (e.g. Hermit + Market Square), and combos that are extremely strong and it is non-obvious how strong they are (e.g. Beggar + Guildhall). That actually excludes a lot of the stuff that was posted in the early days as exactly the kind of thing that was supposed to go into this thread, including a bunch of stuff I posted myself and basically all the example combos in the OP, but quite frankly I don't think it is an efficient enough usage of your mental resources anymore to see Stonemason in the kingdom and start wondering whether Quarry might also be present. I don't know what kind of a vision Adam has for this thread nowadays, though.

Anyway, the usefulness of specific card + specific card + card category was already officially questionable in 2015 and we've gotten, what, like 200 new cards since then? Seems pretty clear those don't count as useful under Adam's original intent.

Part of my dream was that these combos would appear in actual games of Dominion that were played. This probably means that they require only two cards to pull off. The odds of seeing three particular cards in a kingdom these days are extremely unlikely, and so they are much less useful. How much less useful? About 200 times less useful. Even requiring a village or additional draw or a category of cards to be useful is speculative.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1829 on: April 16, 2023, 01:14:13 am »
+2

King's Cache and Capital.  You get 18 coins & 3 buys but only have to pay back 6.  It's like a triple cash back credit card.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1830 on: April 27, 2023, 12:28:21 pm »
+1

Minor, but a fun one:
Cursed card worth 4 or less+Workshop/Hammer, and Commerce.

I bought a cursed card, and lucked out with Hammer as my first loot.
Next turn, Hammer got me another cursed card, and 5 gold bought me 3 gold. Four gold-like cards in one turn is amazing.
Extra bonus points if Curse gets you Dubloons.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2023, 12:50:50 pm by Nukatha »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1831 on: May 04, 2023, 02:20:32 am »
+1

Today I realized that Garrison and Livery stack with each other and the horses from Livery count toward Garrison's next turn draw.

If you also have something like Fawning Border Village or pretty much any gainer (but especially Treasure/Night gainers), it gets cwazy fast.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1832 on: May 17, 2023, 09:01:19 am »
+3

Souk/Gamble is pretty neat. If you have no cards in hand/deck/discard and at least $7, you can gain the entire Souk pile in one turn, and then the Souks are generally at least Golds for your Gamble deck and better if you get any Treasures or disappearing Actions in your hand.

Similarly with Souk/Rush. Though in this case, you don't even need your deck/discard to be empty in order to autopile the Souks, you just need $7 and no cards in hand. Or even if you do have cards in hand but a bit more $, you can use the first Souks you gain to trash the cards in your hand, ensuring that the rest of them all make $7.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1833 on: May 17, 2023, 09:09:25 am »
+8

Flagship/Bridge. No surprise with this one (essentially the same idea as RC/Bridge), but I've had several games now where my opponent didn't notice it, so I figured it was worth a post. The strategy is to buy only flagships (and maybe silver on 3). Once you get 6 of them, you buy a bridge. If you play the bridge with 6 flagships in play and at least 1 copper in hand, you can buy all the provinces. Just make sure you don't accidentally buy any other actions that will trigger the flagships; I don't think trashing or getting any other engine components is worth the time here.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1834 on: May 20, 2023, 02:44:43 am »
+3

Launch is just crazy strong in a Landing Party game.  as long as you have 3 coins in hand you can activate all of your landing parties topdecked and then go about playing those, along with your other cards in hand.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2023, 02:46:11 am by Honkeyfresh »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1835 on: June 03, 2023, 08:32:50 pm »
0

Launch and Cursed Village is amazing.  As long as you have 3 coins in hand, you spend all your coins and then get to launch to an often 2/3 card cursed village hand, which means you basically get a whole new hand to mess with, plus the coins you disappeared to pay for the Launch.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1836 on: June 08, 2023, 11:17:47 pm »
0

I think this one actually now qualifies as a combo since any reshuffle triggers it, so I pulled it from the other thread.
This one was really kind of neat, although an extreme edge case.  If you gain a Siren with a Sheepdog in hand and you are at the end of your draw pile you can gain it without trashing if the Siren ends up triggering a reshuffle.

I was wondering if it mattered whether you actually draw the Siren there, and it's easier than that. I just tested it online, and this works whenever the Sheepdog makes you shuffle the gained Siren into your deck--that's where the Siren loses track of itself. You don't have to draw the Siren from the Sheepdog effect, just shuffle the Siren into your deck with the Sheepdog effect.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1837 on: June 09, 2023, 08:48:20 am »
+2

I think this one actually now qualifies as a combo since any reshuffle triggers it, so I pulled it from the other thread.
This one was really kind of neat, although an extreme edge case.  If you gain a Siren with a Sheepdog in hand and you are at the end of your draw pile you can gain it without trashing if the Siren ends up triggering a reshuffle.

I was wondering if it mattered whether you actually draw the Siren there, and it's easier than that. I just tested it online, and this works whenever the Sheepdog makes you shuffle the gained Siren into your deck--that's where the Siren loses track of itself. You don't have to draw the Siren from the Sheepdog effect, just shuffle the Siren into your deck with the Sheepdog effect.

From my rules document, there's these, that can move the Siren directly:
Bauble, Cargo Ship, City-state, Deliver, Gatekeeper, Hasty, Innovation, Insignia, Royal Seal, Rush, Sailor, Sleigh, Tiara, Tracker, Trappers’ Lodge, Travelling Fair, Watchtower, Way of the Seal

And these, that can cause the Siren to be shuffled in:
Band of Nomads, Sheepdog, Way of the Horse/Mole/Mouse/Otter/Owl/Pig (via Falconer, Sheepdog or Stowaway)

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1838 on: August 08, 2023, 07:32:46 pm »
0

Souk/Gamble is pretty neat. If you have no cards in hand/deck/discard and at least $7, you can gain the entire Souk pile in one turn, and then the Souks are generally at least Golds for your Gamble deck and better if you get any Treasures or disappearing Actions in your hand.

Similarly with Souk/Rush. Though in this case, you don't even need your deck/discard to be empty in order to autopile the Souks, you just need $7 and no cards in hand. Or even if you do have cards in hand but a bit more $, you can use the first Souks you gain to trash the cards in your hand, ensuring that the rest of them all make $7.

Throw in any cost reduction, and you'll actually end up with more coins than you started with, too!
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1839 on: August 08, 2023, 08:06:38 pm »
+1

Souk/Gamble is pretty neat. If you have no cards in hand/deck/discard and at least $7, you can gain the entire Souk pile in one turn, and then the Souks are generally at least Golds for your Gamble deck and better if you get any Treasures or disappearing Actions in your hand.

Similarly with Souk/Rush. Though in this case, you don't even need your deck/discard to be empty in order to autopile the Souks, you just need $7 and no cards in hand. Or even if you do have cards in hand but a bit more $, you can use the first Souks you gain to trash the cards in your hand, ensuring that the rest of them all make $7.

Throw in any cost reduction, and you'll actually end up with more coins than you started with, too!

You also end up with more pieces in the card interaction than you started with.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1840 on: August 14, 2023, 12:25:55 pm »
0

I had a rather amusing turn vs. the AI app a few days ago. (August 9, 2023 Daily Dominion).
Kingdom:
Pawn
Secluded Shrine
Swindler
Abundance
"Shy" Secret Passage
Courtier
Duke
Minion
Pendant
Torturer

Scrounge

The AI got quite a bit ahead of me in Province count, but I was able to strike back later with some nice Abundance/Scrounge combos to nab 6 Duchies and 6 Dukes, which brought me a nice victory.

The particular useful card interaction:
I even had a truly silly turn toward the end where had a Secluded Shrine, 3$, and 2 buys thanks to a Pawn, and the trash had no estates. I bought a copper, which allowed me to trash an Estate from my hand with the Secluded Shrine, and immediately got it back alongside the final Duchy with Scrounge.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1841 on: August 14, 2023, 12:45:53 pm »
+2

I had a rather amusing turn vs. the AI app a few days ago. (August 9, 2023 Daily Dominion).
Kingdom:
Pawn
Secluded Shrine
Swindler
Abundance
"Shy" Secret Passage
Courtier
Duke
Minion
Pendant
Torturer

Scrounge

The AI got quite a bit ahead of me in Province count, but I was able to strike back later with some nice Abundance/Scrounge combos to nab 6 Duchies and 6 Dukes, which brought me a nice victory.

The particular useful card interaction:
I even had a truly silly turn toward the end where had a Secluded Shrine, 3$, and 2 buys thanks to a Pawn, and the trash had no estates. I bought a copper, which allowed me to trash an Estate from my hand with the Secluded Shrine, and immediately got it back alongside the final Duchy with Scrounge.

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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

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Honkeyfresh

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1842 on: October 12, 2023, 10:55:21 pm »
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Possession and Avoid allows you to essentially pull the best three cards (and any Possessions they may have) out of their deck for a mere 2 coins.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1843 on: October 13, 2023, 02:14:55 am »
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Possession and Avoid allows you to essentially pull the best three cards (and any Possessions they may have) out of their deck for a mere 2 coins.

And with enough Avoids, you just lock them out of the game by giving them a 0 card hand. Similar to the “trash everything” trick you can do with Possession.
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Jonatan Djurachkovitch

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1844 on: October 13, 2023, 08:21:00 am »
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Possession and Avoid allows you to essentially pull the best three cards (and any Possessions they may have) out of their deck for a mere 2 coins.

And with enough Avoids, you just lock them out of the game by giving them a 0 card hand. Similar to the “trash everything” trick you can do with Possession.

Does that really work? - after reshuffling 0 cards, do you not attempt a new reshuffle since you still have cards left to draw?

Edit - Just read the wiki - "You might leave so many cards in your discard pile that you don't have enough to draw; this does not trigger another shuffle, you just draw what you can."
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GendoIkari

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1845 on: October 13, 2023, 11:04:39 am »
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Yeah that statement in the wiki is what made me think of it, actually. So in games with Possession, just make sure your deck can't reliably produce 2/3 as many as you have cards in your deck, while drawing your deck.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1846 on: October 27, 2023, 05:57:52 pm »
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Treasury and Villa allows you to return all of your treasuries to the top deck when you gain the Villa allowing you to get a VP card after you Villa and still keep all your Treasuries topdecked.
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jomini

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1847 on: November 11, 2023, 09:18:19 am »
+1

Treasury and Villa allows you to return all of your treasuries to the top deck when you gain the Villa allowing you to get a VP card after you Villa and still keep all your Treasuries topdecked.

I have not tried it, but Treasury/Cavalry looks like it might be very powerful. 5 Treasuries means that you can net $10 and draw a net of 20 cards while emptying a second pile for no loss of buys. If you get a 6:4 split that moves up to enough cash to pile any $2 coin pile and a single additional coin somewhere lets you have enough cash to buy ten $3. Obviously, buys are going to be constraining, but it takes very few turns to get 6 or 7 Treasuries.

In general, I think the bigger use of Villa/Cavalry with Treasury is not so much to keep plodding along with a fat stack of treasuries on top (at best villa eats three of them in purchas costs), but to replay the treasuries during a quick rush. It will need some sort of draw that you retain in hand, but you can get some very nice mutiplication going.

Ultimately the top decking of Treasuries really only has two major use cases: early during the build to increase your odds of hitting a price point every turn (e.g. needing to hit $5 for Bazaar/Rabble) and late to save up Treasuries until you can snag an $8, $11, or $5 turn in a deck that has been tanked. In most cases where you have $3 to burn on a Villa, you already are exceedingly likely to have the ability to draw through deck. And outside of some stuff like Tr or Storyteller, Treasury does little to help you draw through. And boards with Villa are extremely likely to be engine boards regardless; and the mostly likely way to not have a deck drawing engine would be lack of draw cards, but then you, at best have a 5:5 split and need to hit $11 to use the Villa trick which is $7 in 5 cards; or about the exact same as what you get on average if your deck is 25 cards or less.  And lest we forget, unless you have terminals that benefit from +actions or something that can use the price of the villa for benefit (e.g. Way of the Butterfly), Villas are just coppers. Paying $3 for a copper in order to get $5 more next turn can be worth it as a tactical play near game end, but I suspect that building a strat around this just is not going to be much, if any, better than just ignoring the Villa, or using Villa to speed build an engine before greening.
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