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Author Topic: Prince of Princes  (Read 2182 times)

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CavJes

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Prince of Princes
« on: March 16, 2015, 04:56:51 pm »
+4

This is more of a marathon challenge for those patient enough to pursue it. I am fairly certain the route is quite tedious, and though some are weary of "achieve X in as few turns as possible" style puzzles, here it is anyway, because some sicko will get a kick out of it:

Prince a Prince with a Princed Prince in as few turns as possible.

I am still working out my own solution but it is fairly clear which cards are necessary. The optimal solution may even necessitate passing up a forced win just to get there. How quickly one can cycle is likely a big factor in optimization.

I apologize for any inconvenience this puzzle may cause.

CavJes
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werothegreat

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Re: Prince of Princes
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2015, 05:28:47 pm »
0

Well, you need four Highways (that's probably simpler than Bridges).  Then a Workshop and Watchtower in hand to gain, then buy (with two Silvers) two Princes, putting them on top of your deck.  No idea how long that would take.  Then you just choose not to set aside the other Prince until you've picked up another one.
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TheOthin

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Re: Prince of Princes
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2015, 05:34:17 pm »
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Well, you need four Highways (that's probably simpler than Bridges).  Then a Workshop and Watchtower in hand to gain, then buy (with two Silvers) two Princes, putting them on top of your deck.  No idea how long that would take.  Then you just choose not to set aside the other Prince until you've picked up another one.
What about Stonemason? Quarry can also help out Stonemason; with two Quarries and a Silver in play you can buy a Stonemason and overpay by $4 to get two Princes.

Quarry does have the problem of having a harder time getting the Princes to connect, but Black Market can fix that. With just one Black Market alongside Necropolis you can play two Quarries to lower prices as you need. That'd eat up four cards in hand though.
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CavJes

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Re: Prince of Princes
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2015, 07:23:18 pm »
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Well, you need four Highways (that's probably simpler than Bridges).  Then a Workshop and Watchtower in hand to gain, then buy (with two Silvers) two Princes, putting them on top of your deck.  No idea how long that would take.  Then you just choose not to set aside the other Prince until you've picked up another one.

The primary hurdle I think stands in getting that third Prince down to or below 4 before even setting it aside with the already Princed Prince. This means you have to Prince other things first.

So it's either you Prince Bs/Hs or you Prince KC/TR to target Bs/Hs you have in hand. The problem I have found with Highway is the non-stackable effect when KCd or what have youd. Maybe Princing the 4 Highways/Bridges separately gets there faster, but I have a feeling using doubling or tripling effects beats having to get extra Princes. To this end, though I do see some benefits of cycling with Highway barring other deck management, then I would think Bridge has to be the way to go.

Throne Room may even be preferable to KC due to its immediate Princability, and a Princed TR meeting a hand like TR, Bridge, Bridge, Prince, Curse completes the puzzle. Assuming of course you have a Princed Prince coming in after resolution to Prince the final Prince.

Just some preliminary thoughts anyway. Please excuse any misprince.
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TheOthin

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Re: Prince of Princes
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2015, 07:45:56 pm »
+2

Oh huh I didn't even think of that. This convinces me even more about Black Market + Quarry, since that means you only need to Prince one non-Prince card and therefore only need four Princes, which you can get with two Stonemason purchases.

So you could, say, open Quarry/Quarry via Baker, then on the second shuffle use the two Quarries to get your first two Princes while grabbing your Black Market on a regular $3 hand. Then on the third shuffle Prince the Black Market and get the other two Princes. Fourth shuffle, draw the Quarries and two Princes, use the Princed Black Market to play the Quarries and Prince a Prince, then buy Mandarin to topdeck the Quarries and draw them again the next turn along with the remaining Prince to target it with the Princed Prince.
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CavJes

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Re: Prince of Princes
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2015, 08:15:38 pm »
0

Oh huh I didn't even think of that. This convinces me even more about Black Market + Quarry, since that means you only need to Prince one non-Prince card and therefore only need four Princes, which you can get with two Stonemason purchases.

So you could, say, open Quarry/Quarry via Baker, then on the second shuffle use the two Quarries to get your first two Princes while grabbing your Black Market on a regular $3 hand. Then on the third shuffle Prince the Black Market and get the other two Princes. Fourth shuffle, draw the Quarries and two Princes, use the Princed Black Market to play the Quarries and Prince a Prince, then buy Mandarin to topdeck the Quarries and draw them again the next turn along with the remaining Prince to target it with the Princed Prince.


Well with Throne Room and Bridges you still only need to Prince the TR, but it does seem to take another shuffle to get to Princes. However, you may be able to Prince the Prince a little earlier...

Quick question:
Edge case! Can one Prince hold on to multiple actions? That is, what happens when a Princed Prince sets aside a Noble Brigand this turn, and a Scout when one is prompted to Prince next turn? And furthermore how would one go about ordering resolutions in the Prince phase of one's turn?

If the same initially Princed Prince can set aside both a Throne Room/Black Market and a Prince, then only 3 Princes in total are needed in any case.
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TheOthin

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Re: Prince of Princes
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2015, 08:20:18 pm »
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Once a Princed Prince Princes something, it gets set aside rather than being discarded, and therefore will not be played again. There isn't any actual tactical benefit to Princing a Prince.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Prince of Princes
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2015, 08:21:33 pm »
+1

Keep in mind that if you have a Prince of KC or TR, you can use that to target another KC or TR in your hand and then go off to the races.

Prince of Princes will only ever be able to Prince one thing.  This is one happens:

(Edit: ninja'd, but I'll leave this anyway.  No spoiler tags because it's a rules question.)

Play Prince A.  You set it aside, then you choose an Action card from your hand costing up to $4.
You choose Prince B.

At the start of your next turn, you play that action.

You play Prince B.  You set it aside, then you choose an Action card from your hand costing up to $4.

At the end of this turn, Prince B is still set aside from when it was played so you fail to discard it, which means that you fail to set it aside for Prince A.  Because of that, you fail to play it ever again.

Once a Princed Prince Princes something, it gets set aside rather than being discarded, and therefore will not be played again. There isn't any actual tactical benefit to Princing a Prince.

Edge case -- you draw 2 Princes at the start of your shuffle with no other action cards.  You're not going to reshuffle again before the end of the game, so these are dead.  But if already-played Princes reduce the cost of actions by $4 (e.g. Prince of Black market with two Quarries in hand) then you can Prince your Prince and have a chance at Prince on another action on your next turn.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 08:25:21 pm by eHalcyon »
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CavJes

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Re: Prince of Princes
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2015, 08:36:06 pm »
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Yes a Princed TR can play TR twice into two Bridges to Prince the third Prince. This may or may not lead to TR/Bridge being favorable over BM/Quarry.

I see, so four Princes it must be. And I take it that the Prince B is discarded even if it cannot or does not set another action card aside?

Likely irrelevant to the puzzle: Are BoM as Prince and its counterpart discarded once BoM is set aside (leaves play)?
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TheOthin

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Re: Prince of Princes
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2015, 08:52:52 pm »
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I don't think BoM as Prince is even possible.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Prince of Princes
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2015, 08:53:40 pm »
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Yes a Princed TR can play TR twice into two Bridges to Prince the third Prince. This may or may not lead to TR/Bridge being favorable over BM/Quarry.

I see, so four Princes it must be. And I take it that the Prince B is discarded even if it cannot or does not set another action card aside?

Likely irrelevant to the puzzle: Are BoM as Prince and its counterpart discarded once BoM is set aside (leaves play)?

Actually, no.  When you play Prince, you may set it aside in order to get its effects.  But you could choose not to set it aside, in which case it does nothing else and gets discarded afterwards.  If you do that with Prince B, it would actually get played again next turn.  So hey, you can delay using your Princed Prince if you wish.

You can't play BoM as Prince.  BoM can only play cards costing less than it, and Prince will never cost less than BoM (though maybe a card in Adventures will be able to change that).
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CavJes

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Re: Prince of Princes
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2015, 10:05:36 pm »
0

A go at the alternative to BM/Q for the sake of comparison, unoptimal for now:

Open TR-Bridge via Baker.
Shuffle.
Draw TR, Bridge C, C, Hovel. Double Bridge, pick up two TRs, Bridge and Smithy via double Stonemason.
Draw CCCCOgie...buy Smithy?
Draw Necro, C,
Shuffle
TR, TR, Smithy. Play Necro, TR the TR into a Smithy to draw TR, Bridge Bridge, 3 coppers. Use the TRd TR on your other TR to double your Bridges. Play Smithy drawing Hovel, Copper, Stonemason.  Now you have 8 money, 5 buys, and 2 Coppers and a SM left in your draw (not good...) with everything costing 4 less. Buy 4 Princes via Stonemason and flat-purchase two more TRs and a Smithy (can't overpay 0, but maybe Highway comes into play here). Draw C, C, SM
Shuffle
Necro, Smithy.
This is now turn 6.
Play Necro, Smithy, draw TR, Prince, Ogie. Prince the TR.
Draw TR, TR, Smithy, Bridge, Bridge. TR TR from Prince into Smithy, draw 2 Princes, 3 copper and your last TR.TR TR into double Bridge, Princing a Prince. [I'm missing an action here...]
Overpay for Doctor by 7, discarding or trashing all but 7 remaining cards (Lots of SMs and X), not seeing the other Prince.
Draw dead for a turn or two?
Draw Prince at the bottom of your deck into the kickoff hand of Prince-TR-Bridge-Bridge-X or a variant with Smithy to draw.

Maybe Chancellor or Scavenger have a place at some point instead of a Smithy?

« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 06:51:31 pm by CavJes »
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