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Author Topic: Twig (Web Serial) Discussion  (Read 13241 times)

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eHalcyon

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Twig (Web Serial) Discussion
« on: March 10, 2015, 04:48:19 pm »
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Wildbow, author of Worm, has just wrapped up his second serial, Pact.  His new venture Twig is just starting up, so I was wondering if anybody is interested in keeping up a discussion thread here.
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Re: Twig (Web Serial) Discussion
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2015, 04:59:07 pm »
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Ugh, where are the pictures?
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Re: Twig (Web Serial) Discussion
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2015, 05:39:20 pm »
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Is there some sort of running joke where he has to name all his serials after a 4-letter word?

EDIT: I have to finish reading HP:MoR first, which apparently should end soon. I've heard Worm is basically the thing you go read once you're done with that. Now that Pact is over, would you recommend that one instead?
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 05:41:30 pm by pacovf »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Twig (Web Serial) Discussion
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2015, 05:57:40 pm »
+2

I should get back to HP:MoR.  I haven't checked in since that really long hiatus.

I don't know if there's an inside joke with the 4 letter titles.  Worm vs. Pact, the first thing to consider is that Worm is significantly longer than Pact.  Other than that, I don't really have a recommendation one way or the other.  Worm is set in a world of superheroes and villains.  Pact is supernatural (think magic and demons).  I think I like Worm more because it was interesting seeing new characters with new powers and the creative ways those powers are used.  Pact was looser because its system of magic was not as clearly defined.  Both are really good though!
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pacovf

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Re: Twig (Web Serial) Discussion
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2015, 10:44:13 pm »
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Finished HP:MoR! The final arc was cool, although it takes too long to wrap everything up afterwards.

Have to start mmm Worm now I guess.
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Titandrake

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Re: Twig (Web Serial) Discussion
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2015, 11:14:32 pm »
+2

I am not caught up on Twig (I'm on the start of Arc 3), but I think it starts stronger than Pact does. Or, maybe I'm misremembering Pact.

I recommend Worm over Pact. Worm has a science fiction tendency to try to explain everything about how it works, and Pact has a deliberately vague system of magic. Pact is also darker + more isolating than Worm, and Worm is already pretty freaking dark.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Twig (Web Serial) Discussion
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2015, 01:20:41 am »
+1

Worm was spectacular, though I think the ending was rushed.  Granted, it's so long that a non-rushed ending would have been like another year's worth of updates.

I am enjoying Twig more than I did Pact, but Pact was really good too.  Twig is nice just because the main protagonist is a child with a sense of humour, and the other protagonists are very well developed from the start.  Pact, on the other hand, intentionally leaves the side characters wrapped in mystery for much of the story, and the narrator has a much bleaker voice simply due to the setting.

Worm is now too long ago for me to properly compare.  I'd still say to start with Worm though, because then you can binge as long as you want.  Or go with Pact if you think you'd prefer something grittier, or just shorter.  Because seriously, Worm is a beast.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 01:22:41 am by eHalcyon »
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Twig (Web Serial) Discussion
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2015, 01:01:25 pm »
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Started reading Twig (after loving both Worm and Pact) but just couldn't continue. The protagonist is IMO too unsympathetic, and it reads more to me like Evil vs. Evil, which I find much less interesting than Good v Good (Worm) or Good v Evil (Pact).

Maybe I'll pick it up again while waiting for Worm " updates, but I didn't find it very engaging.
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Twig (Web Serial) Discussion
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2015, 01:04:35 pm »
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Finished HP:MoR! The final arc was cool, although it takes too long to wrap everything up afterwards.

Have to start mmm Worm now I guess.

Absolutely. I'd say it puts HPMOR to shame, both in writing quality and in conveying its moral. (I actually read all of HPMOR and liked it, I just think Worm is better.)
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eHalcyon

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Re: Twig (Web Serial) Discussion
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2015, 01:14:32 pm »
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Started reading Twig (after loving both Worm and Pact) but just couldn't continue. The protagonist is IMO too unsympathetic, and it reads more to me like Evil vs. Evil, which I find much less interesting than Good v Good (Worm) or Good v Evil (Pact).

Maybe I'll pick it up again while waiting for Worm " updates, but I didn't find it very engaging.

Really?  How far did you go?  I find the protagonist to be as sympathetic as the previous ones. 
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Twig (Web Serial) Discussion
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2015, 01:18:53 pm »
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To where there was a fight scene with him and his companions vs Mary.

Basically, he lies to everyone, messes with them just to be mean, hurts people for no apparent reason, hates everyone... I don't see how anyone likes him.

P.S. I sympathize with Taylor because I could have been in her shoes had I not gone to an amazing school, she's always trying to do the right thing, she cares about people, both concretely and abstractly, and though I definitely don't agree with her on everything, she seems like a genuinely nice person. I sympathize with Blake because he's fighting a really corrupt and immoral system, is trying to do so while hurting as few people as possible, also cares about people, and is willing to get hurt for other peoples' sake.

I don't see Sy being able to do any of that.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 01:24:31 pm by XerxesPraelor »
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Re: Twig (Web Serial) Discussion
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2015, 01:49:28 pm »
+1

You should read a little further.  He clearly cares for his group and he actually has reasons for how he acts.  I can't remember anything that suggests he hates everyone or manipulates just to be mean, but that's definitely not the case in recent chapters.  He is actively concerned about maintaining group cohesion, and he has put himself in harm's way multiple times to help his friends.  He also had a monologue about hope/belief and his biggest motivation seems to be Family.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 01:51:22 pm by eHalcyon »
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Re: Twig (Web Serial) Discussion
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2015, 02:10:08 pm »
+2

Started Worm last Friday. Man am I hooked. I'm up to Interlude 11.

I am not entirely sure if the comparisons to HP:MoR are really all that adequate though. There are some MoR moments in Worm (like the second fight with Lung), but not that many. On the other hand, the group dynamics are more enjoyable to read, and the setting is quite interesting, if not as savagely deconstructed as the one in HP:MoR.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Twig (Web Serial) Discussion
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2015, 02:20:44 pm »
+2

I always viewed MoR as more of an exercise for fun rather than a story of its own.  The early chapters certainly read like a critique or deconstruction of genre tropes and quirks.  For example, the whole section on how the magical economy is nonsense was spectacular but didn't feel (to me) like a natural part of a narrative.  MoR feels like that through a lot of it, though its own unique plot comes to the foreground as the story advances.

I think the main comparison to Worm is that both attempt to avoid or lampshade trope cliches and nonsense.  Monologuing villains, needlessly limited/uncreative use of powers, attempting to truly understand and take advantage of universe rules - these are elements of both stories.
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Re: Twig (Web Serial) Discussion
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2015, 01:23:58 am »
+1

Just read the interlude with Carol/Brandish (Glory Girl's mother). Damn. It's like someone accidentally leaned on the "grim" settings some arcs ago and it just started escalating like crazy. At least the characters more prone to body horror are (temporarily?) out of the scene, but... damn.
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thespaceinvader

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Re: Twig (Web Serial) Discussion
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2015, 04:08:51 am »
+1

Just read the interlude with Carol/Brandish (Glory Girl's mother). Damn. It's like someone accidentally leaned on the "grim" settings some arcs ago and it just started escalating like crazy. At least the characters more prone to body horror are (temporarily?) out of the scene, but... damn.
It gets worse.

With Worm, it ALWAYS gets worse.  Always.  Seriously, Worm is among the darkest superhero stories I think I've ever read.  Wildbow reeeaaally likes his grim and grittiness.

Twig, thus far, has been a lot lighter than Worm gets even early on, and it's not like Twig's been pleasant.  Very good, though.
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Re: Twig (Web Serial) Discussion
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2015, 10:35:06 pm »
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Ugggggggggh why is Bonesaw still in the story whyyyyyyyyy
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Re: Twig (Web Serial) Discussion
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2015, 05:33:18 pm »
+1

Ugggggggggh why is Bonesaw still in the story whyyyyyyyyy

Bonesaw's one of my favorite characters.

That's not saying I didn't have the same reaction, because OMG Bonesaw why.
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pacovf

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Re: Twig (Web Serial) Discussion
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2015, 05:50:05 pm »
+1

Yay finished Worm. I have to say, for a story so dark, grim, morally grey and riddled with body horror... some of the epilogues were surprisingly sweet.

And ugh so much free time now...
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eHalcyon

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Re: Twig (Web Serial) Discussion
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2015, 07:32:34 pm »
+1

Yay finished Worm. I have to say, for a story so dark, grim, morally grey and riddled with body horror... some of the epilogues were surprisingly sweet.

And ugh so much free time now...

So that was... 19 days?  Wow, that is a blistering pace.  How much time were you reading each day?  I used to devour books, but I don't know if I could have ever done that.

Now you can move on to Pact, then catch up on Twig!
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Re: Twig (Web Serial) Discussion
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2015, 10:12:55 pm »
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Spent most of my free time on it, especially during the weekends. I took roughly 20 minutes to read a chapter, more for the later ones. I used to read faster, especially in Spanish, I guess I am getting lazy. I huh have some real life stuff to take care of now.

I will probably read Pact at some point, but not right away, I can't really allow myself to be consumed again so soon.

High point of Worm was clearly Coil's endgame. I didn't find the Endbringer fights (save maybe Simurgh) or the Slaughterhouse 9 all that interesting.

Finished HP:MoR! The final arc was cool, although it takes too long to wrap everything up afterwards.

Have to start mmm Worm now I guess.

Absolutely. I'd say it puts HPMOR to shame, both in writing quality and in conveying its moral. (I actually read all of HPMOR and liked it, I just think Worm is better.)

What would you say the moral of Worm is?

I have to say, the last ~10 arcs of Worm need some heavy editing, and the whole thing could use some trimming. Side effect of the regular updates, I guess. Not like the last few chapters of HP:MoR are perfect either, but I'd say they are a little bit better on that front.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 10:16:24 pm by pacovf »
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Titandrake

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Re: Twig (Web Serial) Discussion
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2015, 10:35:02 pm »
+1

I agree that my favorite parts of Worm were post-Leviathan up to the end of Coil (including Echidna). I like the first appearance of the Slaughtherhouse 9, and also the second. IMO the first appearance is better by itself, and the 2nd appearance is good because it marks the end of Taylor integrating with the Wards, which is definitely one of the weaker parts of Worm.

Out of the Endbringer fights, Behemoth > Leviathan > rest in terms of enjoyment. My favorite chapter is the Chevalier interlude at the end of the Behemoth fight FWIW. It's one of the few moments when characters who act heroically and continue fighting actually get rewarded in a way that's unambiguously good, and I thought it was symbolic of the tone of the series in general.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Twig (Web Serial) Discussion
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2015, 10:36:30 pm »
+1

I remember enjoying the Leviathan fight at least, and the S9 stuff varied.  It was fun seeing how each OP character was defeated though.

Worm could definitely use some trimming, but I think the ending actually needed to be longer.  It felt rushed.  Maybe that was only in comparison to the rest though.

20 minutes per chapter is good.  I think that was around my pace, but I guess I didn't devote as much time to it per day. :P
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Re: Twig (Web Serial) Discussion
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2015, 11:04:00 pm »
+1

I agree that my favorite parts of Worm were post-Leviathan up to the end of Coil (including Echidna). I like the first appearance of the Slaughtherhouse 9, and also the second. IMO the first appearance is better by itself, and the 2nd appearance is good because it marks the end of Taylor integrating with the Wards, which is definitely one of the weaker parts of Worm.

Out of the Endbringer fights, Behemoth > Leviathan > rest in terms of enjoyment. My favorite chapter is the Chevalier interlude at the end of the Behemoth fight FWIW. It's one of the few moments when characters who act heroically and continue fighting actually get rewarded in a way that's unambiguously good, and I thought it was symbolic of the tone of the series in general.

Coil elevated every chapter he was in. Skitter's rise to power was great, and the escape from Coil's trap was amazing. Coil being defeated by Tattletale felt a bit cheap, but it was more than made up by what came before it. Echidna's fight was nice too.

I disliked the Slaughterhouse 9 introduction because it felt like the story was going to go into some mix between villain-of-the-week or tournament-arc directions, which are ok for anime but not for books. The two fights against Mannequin felt contrived, but it picks up after that. I hated every scene with Bonesaw, especially Blasto's interlude, until her own interlude, showing that Jack was the reason she was the way she was.

The Endbringer fights just felt really boring. Leviathan's fight kinda has to be there because it is really important for the tone shift and because it is plot critical, but the fight against Behemoth is whatever and not that relevant. At least Chevalier gets to show off how much of a BAMF he is.

I actually liked the integration of Skitter with the Wards, if anything because it introduced some levity into the narrative that had been missing for the past 13 arcs or so. It could have been done better though, I agree on that.


I remember enjoying the Leviathan fight at least, and the S9 stuff varied.  It was fun seeing how each OP character was defeated though.

Worm could definitely use some trimming, but I think the ending actually needed to be longer.  It felt rushed.  Maybe that was only in comparison to the rest though.

I only really liked how they defeated Crawler. It was so, so anticlimactic, it went from cheap to funny.

The timeskip definitely needed more work. It's jarring how it goes from day-to-day narrative into let's-just-go-over-some-of-the-important-events.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Twig (Web Serial) Discussion
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2015, 11:49:25 pm »
+1

Since it was written as a serial, I think it actually shares more in common with anime/manga than it does regular novels.  Even though I binged through it as well, I didn't mind the structure it had.

I don't fully remember how all the S9 members were defeated now, but I think I was OK with how it went.

I thought the explanation of what the Endbringers are was kind of cheap, and the way Scion turned was too out-of-left-field.  Given the actual background though, I don't think any buildup there was really possible.
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