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Author Topic: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!  (Read 22360 times)

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werothegreat

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Re: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2015, 04:33:58 pm »
+1

I like soft terminals. So that's what my "something else" vote goes to.

Happy First Post, by the way!
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Re: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2015, 04:38:28 pm »
+1

I don't like the term "soft terminals". It makes it sound like they're not quite as terminal as other terminals, but they do terminate your Action chain as much as any other terminals do.
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Donald X.

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Re: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2015, 04:51:15 pm »
0

I could see it being a sub-category on the terminals page, although Donald slipped in that he thinks of terminals, spammable terminals (for want of a better word), cantrips, and villages as four main and distinct categories.
Well obv. lots of villages are cantrips.

CFB - card for benefit. Wait, FB, for benefit.
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Re: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!
« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2015, 04:54:47 pm »
+1

Playing one action per turn is extremely simple and opens the door for making cards like Village and Spy (and less obviously, Remodel and Vault and Bank and Gardens).
Right, Bank is spammable because it doesn't use an action, and then with Gardens you live with some collisions. I don't have a category for Gardens though, it's not common enough. It's on the VP list, and in parentheses for player interaction.
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Re: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2015, 04:55:33 pm »
0

"Collision-resilient"? "Collision-tolerant"?
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Re: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2015, 05:06:29 pm »
+8

Do we really need a term for it? This strikes me as not dissimilar to the thread Adam had a few weeks ago about terminology, where my stance (and that of others), was that if the thing doesn't grow up naturally, it's not going to be good.

werothegreat

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Re: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2015, 05:14:10 pm »
0

Do we really need a term for it? This strikes me as not dissimilar to the thread Adam had a few weeks ago about terminology, where my stance (and that of others), was that if the thing doesn't grow up naturally, it's not going to be good.

I dunno, I think I might start using "soft terminal" where appropriate.
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Re: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2015, 05:35:29 pm »
+1

Do we really need a term for it? This strikes me as not dissimilar to the thread Adam had a few weeks ago about terminology, where my stance (and that of others), was that if the thing doesn't grow up naturally, it's not going to be good.
Is "blue dog" really natural though? Terminology is really one of those things where you find it when you stop looking for it. Any attempt to formally decide on terminology, say with a vote, is likely to fail. Do we use the term "Vanillage". Did we agree on what level City reaches when 1 pile is empty?

Based on this reasoning, my guess is this category is doomed to be referred to as the " Remodel/Vault" whenever it is brought up because that was the term that caught everyone off guard.

Remodel/Vault, immortalizing a connection that is worthy of a "what's missing" thread. The most memorable thing about it is how weird it sounds, just like the Navigator/Royal Seal synergy. It might become a classic.
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markusin

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Re: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!
« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2015, 05:44:02 pm »
+2

But just for kicks, I'd nominate "cannibals" to refer to this category. I'm not even going to explain it, thus emphasizing that this is not a joke.
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Awaclus

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Re: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!
« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2015, 05:45:17 pm »
+2

Do we use the term "Vanillage". Did we agree on what level City reaches when 1 pile is empty?

It's obviously a 1-pile City.
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Re: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2015, 06:00:48 pm »
+2

Do we really need a term for it? This strikes me as not dissimilar to the thread Adam had a few weeks ago about terminology, where my stance (and that of others), was that if the thing doesn't grow up naturally, it's not going to be good.
Is "blue dog" really natural though? Terminology is really one of those things where you find it when you stop looking for it. Any attempt to formally decide on terminology, say with a vote, is likely to fail. Do we use the term "Vanillage". Did we agree on what level City reaches when 1 pile is empty?

Based on this reasoning, my guess is this category is doomed to be referred to as the " Remodel/Vault" whenever it is brought up because that was the term that caught everyone off guard.

Remodel/Vault, immortalizing a connection that is worthy of a "what's missing" thread. The most memorable thing about it is how weird it sounds, just like the Navigator/Royal Seal synergy. It might become a classic.

You don't understand. On the surface, this thread might look like we are trying to find a word to designate terminal actions that minimize the impact of terminal collision. But, if you read between the lines, it will become apparent that what is really being discussed here is the ageless conflict between prescriptivism and descriptivism.
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markusin

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Re: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2015, 06:02:22 pm »
+1

Do we really need a term for it? This strikes me as not dissimilar to the thread Adam had a few weeks ago about terminology, where my stance (and that of others), was that if the thing doesn't grow up naturally, it's not going to be good.
Is "blue dog" really natural though? Terminology is really one of those things where you find it when you stop looking for it. Any attempt to formally decide on terminology, say with a vote, is likely to fail. Do we use the term "Vanillage". Did we agree on what level City reaches when 1 pile is empty?

Based on this reasoning, my guess is this category is doomed to be referred to as the " Remodel/Vault" whenever it is brought up because that was the term that caught everyone off guard.

Remodel/Vault, immortalizing a connection that is worthy of a "what's missing" thread. The most memorable thing about it is how weird it sounds, just like the Navigator/Royal Seal synergy. It might become a classic.

You don't understand. On the surface, this thread might look like we are trying to find a word to designate terminal actions that minimize the impact of terminal collision. But, if you read between the lines, it will become apparent that what is really being discussed here is the ageless conflict between prescriptivism and descriptivism.
Yes, I clearly didn't see that angle of this discussion.
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Donald X.

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Re: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2015, 06:58:57 pm »
+2

Did we agree on what level City reaches when 1 pile is empty?
All I remember is that two empty piles is max boomtown.
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Re: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!
« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2015, 08:09:19 am »
0

Now when we have soft terminals, I feel the urge to add a couple more equally useful definitions, these being:
"granular terminals" - terminals which can deal with two other dead terminals in a case of triple terminal collision. (Remake)
"liquid terminals" - terminals which can deal with all the other dead terminals in a case of multiple terminal collision. (Forge)

XerxesPraelor

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Re: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2015, 08:33:06 am »
0

Those are all soft terminals.
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Re: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!
« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2015, 08:36:56 am »
+2

Some terminals are softer than the others.

werothegreat

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Re: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2015, 11:43:02 am »
0

I really think Cultist is the best example of a soft terminal - it's terminal... except with itself.
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Re: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2015, 11:49:17 am »
+2

I really think Cultist is the best example of a soft terminal - it's terminal... except with itself.

See I think it's the best example of a supercollider---when it collides, awesomesauce happens.
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Awaclus

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Re: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2015, 07:01:10 pm »
0

I thought of another term, which, I believe, is actually useful from a deckbuilding standpoint. The term is smooth terminals, and it refers to terminal Actions that you (might) want to slightly "overbuy" compared to regular terminals such as Smithy or Militia. Smooth terminals include, in addition to the ones in the Remodel/Vault category, most terminal Durations such as Wharf and Merchant Ship (not Outpost and Tactician though, because they don't function within the regular strategy principles concerning terminal Actions).
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Re: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!
« Reply #44 on: May 22, 2015, 07:09:59 pm »
+2

Also used for terminals that are good at picking up women.
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Re: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!
« Reply #45 on: May 22, 2015, 07:21:11 pm »
+13

you've been hit by.
you've been struck by.
A smooth terminal.

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Re: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!
« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2015, 09:59:10 pm »
+4

you've been hit by.
you've been struck by.
A smooth terminal.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!
« Reply #47 on: May 22, 2015, 10:59:00 pm »
0

I don't like the term "soft terminals". It makes it sound like they're not quite as terminal as other terminals, but they do terminate your Action chain as much as any other terminals do.

Agree. If anything, I think perhaps Throne Room and King's Court could be called "soft terminals". They're technically terminals, yet they can enable you to play multiple actions. I don't see how Vault is in any way a "soft terminal". It's as hard a terminal as any other. It's just that what it does happens to be to do something with another card in your hand. And for Vault especially, having 2 Vaults in your hand means that the second Vault is as dead a card as any other would be; it might as well be a Victory card or a Curse. Vault 1 is not "making use" of Vault 2.

Spammable terminals is my vote.
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Re: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!
« Reply #48 on: May 23, 2015, 04:15:05 am »
+7

I thought of another term, which, I believe, is actually useful from a deckbuilding standpoint. The term is smooth terminals, and it refers to terminal Actions that you (might) want to slightly "overbuy" compared to regular terminals such as Smithy or Militia. Smooth terminals include, in addition to the ones in the Remodel/Vault category, most terminal Durations such as Wharf and Merchant Ship (not Outpost and Tactician though, because they don't function within the regular strategy principles concerning terminal Actions).

Contrast with rough terminals, which are terminals that somehow always collide even if you only have 2 or 3 in a big deck, like Witch and Mountebank.  That's rough, man.
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werothegreat

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Re: Remodel/Vault category - let's give it a name!
« Reply #49 on: May 23, 2015, 09:30:01 am »
+2

I thought of another term, which, I believe, is actually useful from a deckbuilding standpoint. The term is smooth terminals, and it refers to terminal Actions that you (might) want to slightly "overbuy" compared to regular terminals such as Smithy or Militia. Smooth terminals include, in addition to the ones in the Remodel/Vault category, most terminal Durations such as Wharf and Merchant Ship (not Outpost and Tactician though, because they don't function within the regular strategy principles concerning terminal Actions).

Contrast with rough terminals, which are terminals that somehow always collide even if you only have 2 or 3 in a big deck, like Witch and Mountebank.  That's rough, man.

And don't forget about taunting terminals, which somehow mysteriously cause you to get $4 on turns 3 and 4, even when you opened with two Silvers.
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